Trudeau tells inquiry some Conservative parliamentarians are involved in foreign interference
Poilievre pushes back, accuses Trudeau of 'lying'
In astonishing testimony before the foreign interference inquiry Wednesday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said that he has the names of Conservative parliamentarians who are involved in foreign interference.
Trudeau told the inquiry that he instructed the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) to warn Conservative Leader Pierre Poilievre in order to protect the party's integrity.
"I have the names of a number of parliamentarians, former parliamentarians and/or candidates in the Conservative Party of Canada who are engaged, or at high risk of, or for whom there is clear intelligence around foreign interference," he said.
"And I have directed CSIS and others to try and inform the Conservative Party leader to be warned and armed, to be able to make decisions that protect the integrity of that party, of its members, from activities around foreign interference."
The term "parliamentarian" can refer to senators or members of the House of Commons.
Later, under questioning by Nando De Luca, lawyer for the Conservative Party, Trudeau said the names of Liberal parliamentarians and individuals from other parties are also on the list of parliamentarians at risk of being compromised by foreign interference. He cited the riding of Don Valley North.
The inquiry has heard testimony about alleged foreign interference by China in the Liberal nomination contest for Don Valley North in 2019.
The inquiry has seen intelligence summaries from CSIS suggesting that, before the election, it worried international students may have been bused in to take part in the nomination vote and were given fake documents to allow them to vote for Han Dong, who went on to win the Liberal nomination.
Dong went on to win the election as a Liberal but stepped down from the Liberal caucus in 2023 and currently sits as an Independent.
Poilievre's decision not to go through security screening means that no one in the party is in a position to act on the intelligence or challenge its accuracy, said Trudeau.
"The decision by the leader of the Conservative Party to not get those classified briefings means that nobody in his party, not him, nobody in a position of power knows the names of these individuals and can take appropriate action," he said.
"It also means nobody is there to stand up for those individuals if the intelligence is shoddy or incomplete or just allegations from a single source."
Trudeau said he receives intelligence in his role as prime minister but doesn't use it for partisan gain.
"I don't believe in using national security information for partisan purposes," he said.
In a media statement, Poilievre called on Trudeau to name names and accused the prime minister of lying.
"My message to Justin Trudeau is: release the names of all MPs that have collaborated with foreign interference," Poilievre wrote. "But he won't. Because Justin Trudeau is doing what he always does: he is lying. He is lying to distract from a Liberal caucus revolt against his leadership and revelations he knowingly allowed Beijing to interfere and help him win two elections."
Poilievre said he was briefed by top officials on Oct. 14 about "the matter of foreign interference from India" and his chief of staff has received classified briefings.
"At no time has the government told me or my chief of staff of any current or former Conservative parliamentarian or candidate knowingly participating in foreign interference," Poilievre wrote.
CSIS wouldn't brief a chief of staff, former agency directors say
Former CSIS director Richard Fadden told Power and Politics host David Cochrane on Wednesday that CSIS would not brief a chief of staff or a parliamentarian "on something this serious without the government's agreement."
"And I cannot envisage the government saying, 'Yes, this is a good idea. Talk to the chief of staff, not to the principal,' he said. "So I think this is a little bit [of] stretching the circumstances to suit a particular political objective."
Another former CSIS director, Ward Elcock, said there's "really no point to briefing the chief of staff on those issues."
"What could the chief of staff do with the information?" Elcock said. "Mr. Poilievre doesn't have a clearance, so the chief of staff can't tell him the information. And the chief of staff has no power to do anything about the MPs or make decisions about the MPs because he's not the leader of the party."
In the summary of Trudeau's in-camera interview with lawyers for the inquiry, which took place sometime after June 2024, Trudeau described a foreign interference incident involving an opposition party that he said was brought to his attention by his national security and intelligence advisor (NSIA).
"[Trudeau] said this new information was explosive," says the summary. "However, it was not good for a democracy that he use his role as Prime Minister, while also leader of the Liberal Party, to avail himself of information he obtained about potential foreign interference involving opposition parties if it could be perceived as being used to embarrass them."
Trudeau said during the interview that he told his NSIA, CSIS and others that they needed a plan to respond to the foreign interference.
Trudeau did not say when the incident took place or what steps were taken afterwards.
Trudeau told the inquiry that he first heard that Conservative MP Michael Chong had been targeted by China when he read about it in a news report. He referred to the report several times as "a criminal leak" of classified information.
"Like most Canadians when I read the accounts in the paper of what the classified information actually was purported to have said, my instant reaction was to turn to my NSIA and officials and (ask) what exactly the threat is and, if it indeed is this, why am I only learning about this in the newspapers," he said.
Trudeau said once he was briefed on the intelligence, he realized that while the Chinese government had been gathering information about Chong and his family in Hong Kong, CSIS did not believe that there was a direct physical threat.
Trudeau told the inquiry gathering information on Chong didn't qualify as foreign interference. He also said Chinese consular official Zhao Wei — declared persona non grata by the federal government last year — had been engaging in other types of foreign interference and could no longer operate as a diplomat in Canada once he was publicly identified in a news story.
Trudeau said China's decision to single out parliamentarians who have stood against Chinese actions against the Uyghur minority and pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong is "a real issue"
Trudeau said he raised the issue of foreign interference with Chinese President Xi Jinping during the G20 summit held in Bali in November 2022.
"I directly informed (President) Xi that he needed to make sure that China ceased interfering with Canada and Canadian democracy," he testified. "It wasn't a conversation that went particularly well but it was a conversation that needed to be had ..."
"However, despite that and many other messages to China, the interference continued and even in some cases increased."
Trudeau also discussed foreign interference by India and the events that led his government to declare six Indian diplomats persona non grata.
Trudeau said a number of parliamentarians who have been targeted by foreign interference have received threat reduction briefings from CSIS. He did not say how many had received the briefings.
Trudeau said the government is moving to help provincial and territorial premiers get security screening so that intelligence relevant to their jurisdictions can be shared with them.
Trudeau said the geopolitical situation around the world has intensified the challenges his government has had to face.
"I think that there is no question that foreign interference and, in general, threats geopolitically have increased significantly around the world over the past number of years," he said.
Trudeau said Bill C-70, which gives new powers to Canada's security agencies, may have to be updated in the future to take into account new threats.
"The threats are constantly evolving," he said.
The inquiry, led by Commissioner Justice Marie-Josee Hogue, was launched in response to media reports which accused China of interfering in the 2019 and 2021 federal elections.
In her initial report, made public in May, Hogue concluded that while it was possible that foreign interference occurred in a small number of ridings, it did not affect the overall election results.
The inquiry will hold a final set of hearings from Oct. 21-25 to hear from experts on policies the commission should include in its recommendations.
Clarifications
- An earlier version of this story said Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said the names of Liberal and New Democrat parliamentarians are also on the list of parliamentarians implicated in foreign interference. In fact, he said he was aware of Liberal parliamentarians and individuals "from other parties."Oct 16, 2024 3:50 PM EDT
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
