Is state spying for our own good? A Munk Debate preview

You can listen to Jian's chat with Glenn Greenwald by clicking on the listen button, or watch it in the window below:

In a preview of tonight's Munk Debate in Toronto about whether state surveillance is a "legitimate defence of our freedoms," investigative journalist and groundbreaking NSA reporter Glenn Greenwald says "basic political liberties" are in jeopardy. On the other side of the debate, former CIA director and retired U.S. general Michael Hayden says such surveillance is necessary for maintaining individual freedom.

"Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness. We have to keep them in balance," Hayden said, noting this can be a delicate task, and that America's 200-year-old tradition of spying is "a legitimate state activity" that keeps U.S. citizens from harm.

"There are some things we absolutely have a right to keep private and secret. There are other things that the collective has a right to know for a higher good," the former U.S. spy agency director said.

The political culture is now uncomfortable with surveillance, Hayden said, adding that what he described as an "essential" activity is now "threatened by transparency."

Greenwald spoke about the dangers of a "surveillance state" that sets up what he called a "system of suspicion-less surveillance" that puts an entire population under its microscope.

He's not against targeted monitoring of suspected radical groups who may be plotting terrorism.

"Everybody wants governments to be listening to the conversations to the extent they can to Osama bin Laden," he said.

"But as citizens, it's our responsibility to rationalize these risks and not let ourselves be fearmongered."