Saskatoon woman says trust in police damaged after union connects her interaction with Evan Penner to arrest
Police association says information was released to provide public with context around the July 4th arrest
A Saskatoon woman says her trust in the police has been compromised after she learned the Saskatoon Police Association connected an incident where Evan Penner allegedly exposed himself to her to his arrest later in the day on July 4.
A video of that arrest has sparked calls for several police officers to be fired.
The woman, who the CBC has agreed not to name, said her encounter with Penner, while inappropriate, was non-confrontational and non-threatening.
She said the biggest issue Penner appeared to have was that he could not stay awake.
The woman, who has experience dealing with people in crisis, said she found Penner in her backyard around 8 a.m. CST on July 4, roughly six hours before his arrest.
She said he was gathering some of her belongings, but that when she asked Penner to put them down, he complied and asked if he could take a nap on her porch.
"I said that he should probably go, but he didn't, he just laid down on the porch," she said. "He was very skinny looking, so I went out and asked if he wanted a granola bar and a cup of water."
She said that at that point, Penner stood up and took out his penis, asking her if it was "too big." The woman said she asked Penner to put it away and he did without issue.
The woman said she then asked Penner to leave, but instead he laid down on the porch and tried to go back to sleep. She said Penner, who didn't seem to be thinking clearly, started moving as if he was leaving the yard, but would go a little further and then lay back down. She said he used some of the items in her backyard as blankets.
"At one point he tried to climb in a green bin to go to sleep in," she said. "At all of these points, at worst, he was just ignoring us, at no point was he being aggressive."
The woman said she eventually called the police non-emergency line to report the incident. She said Penner left once officers arrived.
Penner was arrested later that day. The landlord of a building in the area previously told CBC she called the police non-emergency line after a tenant reported feeling uncomfortable after seeing a man using the building's garden hose to bathe.
A video of Penner's arrest appeared online on July 6. The video shows a struggle between Evan Penner and a police officer. The officer punches Penner several times. Other officers then arrive and Penner is punched more and tased.
Watch the video of the arrest here:
On July 7 the Saskatoon Police Association, the union that represents officers in the city, released a statement that referred to Penner having been involved in an "indecent exposure" incident earlier on the day he was arrested. The incident did not result in charges, nor was it mentioned in Penner's first court appearance on July 6.
The woman who said Penner exposed himself to her told CBC that hearing the police association connect that incident to the arrest was very disappointing.
"I can't read their minds, so I don't know why they brought that up," she said. "On first impression, it seems to me like they're trying to justify why the police might have been more aggressive with this fellow and that's really upsetting for me as the person who was involved in that first incident."
If I had had a service to call who could have come and offered him a safe bed to sleep in and a shower to take, I would have called them instead.- Woman who interacted with Evan Penner earlier on day of his arrest
She said she was hesitant to even tell the police about the alleged flashing as she was worried it would result in police becoming aggressive with him. She emphasized that she called the non-emergency line.
"At this point now, I don't feel like I can trust the police. I feel like if I call them in the future on something, I'm worried it's going to lead to more harm to people and that makes me feel very alone."
She said she was horrified when she saw the video of the Penner arrest, as the man she encountered on the morning of the arrest was a "sleepy guy who wasn't thinking clearly."
"If I had had a service to call who could have come and offered him a safe bed to sleep in and a shower to take, I would have called them instead," she said. "I think he just needed someone to encourage him to go someplace more comfortable than trying to sleep underneath my porch."
She said based on her interaction with Penner, she feels the force she saw in the video was not appropriate.
When asked if she agrees with calls for the officers to be fired, she said the issue is bigger than that.
"It is awfully convenient to blame individuals for what is an overarching systematic problem, firing those police officers isn't going to fix the fact that the entire police system is riddled with racism and has had a long history of violent, racist interactions with oppressed groups," she said.
"We need to find a way to radically change the police interactions with the public, because if we aren't, we aren't doing a favour to anyone who is working in the police."
CBC Saskatoon has been unable to speak with Penner about what happened during the arrest or his interaction with the police officer, but four people who had interactions with Penner before his arrest said he was non-threatening and not aggressive.
At an FSIN press conference on Thursday, Chief Bobby Cameron said that Penner was just attempting to protect himself from the officer. Penner's mother, Sherri, said her son was a top student and breakdancer while he was growing up, noting her son would teach others how to breakdance if they asked.
The Saskatoon Police Association said it's important that people have context around the July 4 arrest of Penner and that the call to the 500 block of 11th Street East that led to his arrest was only one of three that officers had responded to that day.
Dave Larocque, a spokesman for the SPA, said the indecent exposure call was part of that context.
"We certainly hope she's not frustrated with us, and perhaps we don't understand why she is," Larocque said about the woman's concerns. "The only reason that we provided that information was to provide context. We didn't provide any details about any interactions, but just that there were interactions and the nature of them prior to the arrest later in the day."
The association's post also contained a description of how Penner and the officer became engaged in a physical altercation.
"The officer attended to the house and located the male in the backyard on the deck. The officer asked if the person lived at the residence," the statement said. "The male was hesitant to answer, but eventually said 'no.' The person then refused to speak with the officer any further. The male then attempted to flee from the backyard and a confrontation ensued."
Larocque said the wide majority of calls and arrests made by Saskatoon police don't result in use of force.
"Police, we're not in the business of going out and being forceful, only when necessary do we use force. And for the most part, people are compliant," he said.
Penner's lawyer, Eleanore Sunchild said she feels the police are in "damage control mode."
"They're going to release whatever they can to try and assist their case. That includes information or disparaging comments about Evan Penner," she said.
She said there seems to be a trend of police laying charges of resisting arrest to justify excessive use of force.
"Had there not been a video in this case, we would have seen only one side of this story, the side of law enforcement," she said.
The Saskatoon Board of Police Commissioners held a special meeting about the arrest on Thursday afternoon. At the meeting, members of the board were given an update on the arrest and also had a chance to ask Chief Troy Cooper about the incident.
A wide range of topics were discussed at the meeting, from how calls come into police to how demand for the police service's crisis teams far exceeds their availability.
After that meeting, Chief Troy Cooper was asked about why officers considered Penner a threat when so many people prior to the interaction said he was non-confrontational. Cooper said it's a difficult comparison.
"It's difficult to compare one person's perspective of an incident with another person's, or with a police officer who is called to deal with somebody on a criminal matter."
Cooper said he couldn't answer why the Saskatoon Police Service didn't release information about the indecent exposure incident.
"I wasn't involved in the presentation of media releases over the weekend, so it's something that I have to look into to see if there is some policy around different types of calls and what's released and what's not."
Board chair Darlene Brander said the commissioners understand this is a serious incident, but that members of the public need to be patient as the process unfolds.
"This critical incident needs time to be properly looked at and that's going to take a little longer than some people would like," she said.
Penner is scheduled to appear in court next on Aug. 18, 2020.