Fisheries critic blasted over COVID-19 clawback questions

Conservative fisheries critic Rick Perkins grilled Fisheries Minister Joyce Murray Thursday over her department's clawback of COVID-19 assistance paid to thousands of fishermen, but the exchange may be more remembered for his "confrontational and aggressive" questions and interruptions than the answers.

"Six years I've been a parliamentarian, I have never seen a more rude member of parliament to a witness. Ever," said Dartmouth Liberal MP Darren Fisher. "He was extremely rude."

"I personally am not in favour of the treatment that I just saw. I wanted to express that and to express my frustration on witnessing and being part of that today," said B.C. New Democrat Lisa Marie Barron.

Perkins pressed Murray at the parliamentary fisheries committee meeting on DFO's decision to claw back a fish harvester benefit. The benefit was paid to crew members across Canada who are paid a share of the catch.

DFO later deemed them regular employees and demanded they repay the money.

In Nova Scotia, 2,382 of these crew members have received notices for repayment totalling $13.8 million. Many are in Perkins' riding of South Shore — St. Margarets.

Perkins accused DFO of changing the criteria after the fact. He wanted Murray to acknowledge that under the initial application, the fishermen were eligible.

"Do you agree that the original application process said 'shareperson' only, and that you and your department have confused thousands of fishermen and how you've interpreted it afterwards?" Perkins asked.

"I agree we are doing our level best to serve Canadians and support them during this COVID period, Mr. Perkins, and that's what the fish harvesters benefit was all about," replied Murray. 

Perkins interrupted her to continue his thought: "... by clawing back 5,000 fishermen's benefits after telling them that they were eligible by saying self-employed fishermen. OK. So you couldn't answer that question."

Perkins pointed to an email from policy adviser Jason Rondeau sent to MPs stating that fishermen who earn their income as a percentage of the catch are eligible and receiving the benefit would have no impact on employment insurance eligibility.

"Who was wrong? You or your director of policy, Jason Rondeau?" Perkins demanded.

Terse from the start

"This program was intended for fishers that are not eligible for CERB," Murray replied, before she was cut off again.

"That's not what your assistant said in the email," Perkins said.

The tone was set even before questioning when Perkins objected to a last-minute decision by the government to cut Murray's time before the committee in half.

"Who ordered you to not appear for the full two hours, the Prime Minister's Office or your government House leader? And quickly, because I don't want to hear from officials," Perkins demanded.

"I am really looking forward to this hour to hear your questions and then the officials will speak. Answer the question, please, I don't have a lot of time. Who ordered you to shorten it today, please?"

"Pardon me?" responded Murray.

Nothing changing

"Answer my question and keep it short, because I only have a few minutes. Who ordered you to not appear for the full two hours as per the vote of this committee?," said Perkins.

"Mr Perkins, I am happy to be here," Murray said.

Barron said she understood the frustration over reduced time with the minister, but that did not excuse Perkins's behaviour.

"With all due respect to the member, that is through the chair, that is behavior that is confrontational and aggressive. That is a barrier for women to get involved in politics," Barron said.

In the end, there was no sign that Murrary or DFO intended to retreat from plans to claw back the harvesters' benefit.

"The department has asked for funds back for those who applied that were not the intended recipients of this particular benefit during the COVID period," said Murray. "Whether it was CERB or other kinds of wage subsidies, the government had to act very, very quickly, which sometimes means not as thoroughly as if we were spending six months to a year to put all of the parameters and policies."