N.W.T. premier apologizes after MLA cut off during speech on systemic racism

The premier of the Northwest Territories apologized to MLAs Thursday, after she took issue with comments regarding systemic racism in the territory's child welfare system.

During debate over a committee report on the Child and Family Services Act, Caroline Cochrane was asked to apologize to MLAs after she raised several points of order during comments regarding systemic racism toward children in care. 

The heated debate, first reported by Cabin Radio, started when Inuvik Twin Lakes MLA Lesa Semmler, who was attending by video, had her microphone cut off after she said the government's response to Indigenous children in care was systemically racist. 

"When 98 per cent of the children in the child and family services in the Northwest Territories are Indigenous, this is a crisis. If this was the other way around and they were non-Indigenous, this would definitely be a crisis and the whole of government would be trying to figure it out how this happened," Semmler told the house before she was cut off.

Cochrane then stood in the house and called a "point of order" on Semmler for her comments.

"I take offence to this one. I think that this one goes against the rules of debate," Cochrane said.

"The comment that the member stated that the children are Indigenous and therefore it's not as important but if they were Caucasian that it would be an all-of-government response implies faults or hidden motives to another member; in fact, it implies that the whole of Cabinet would make this a priority and I think that's disrespectful to all of us."

Apologies and clarifications

After a short break, Hay River South MLA Rocky Simpson, who was chairing the meeting, told Semmler she needed to apologize because her comments were out of order.

"I apologize for my comments…," Semmler said, but continued.

"If they would have let me finish my statement, maybe they would have understood what I was leading to. I was never making it a point that it was this government. This is an ongoing historical problem ... that we need to raise."

A number of MLAs took issue with the demand that Semmler apologize.

Yellowknife North MLA Rylund Johnson and Great Slave MLA Katrina Nokleby both said they agreed with Semmler's original comments.

"If all the children in care were white, there would be a whole-of-government approach. It is absolutely insane to think that is not the case. That is how systemic racism works. We know that. This government has repeatedly acknowledged systemic racism," Johnson said.

The premier rose immediately after Johnson's comment and once again called a point of order.

"I do not accept, Mr. Chair, that if all the children in care were Caucasian that this government would have a different tactic," Cochrane said.

"The majority of cabinet are Indigenous. And at no time have we said that we shall punish children because they are Indigenous, that we do not care about our children because they are Indigenous, that we give less services because they are Indigenous. I do not believe in my heart that we would do any different for our children in care if they were all Caucasian."

'I was stating a fact'

Committee chair Rocky Simpson once again said Johnson was out of order and demanded Johnson apologize for his remarks.

"The test is whether a motive is imputed to cabinet." Johnson responded. "I don't believe I was imputing any motive. I was stating a fact about systemic racism. I will not withdraw the comments, and I will not apologize." 

With the premier and Johnson at a stand-off, Simpson took a short break to consult with procedural staff about what to do next. 

When the committee returned from the break, the Speaker addressed the MLAs and told them it had been a long day. He then gave the floor to the premier who said Johnson's comments were "like a slap in the face." Cochrane then said she was planning on withdrawing her point of order but she believed it was too late.

When given a chance to speak, Johnson said that if the point of order were allowed to go through it would be "bad for democracy" and that MLAs need to feel free to voice their opinions without repercussions.

Kam Lake MLA Caitlin Cleveland then quoted from a statement the premier made in March 2021 that said systemic racism "...exists in our government. Some of our institutions, policies, and practices continue to disadvantage or discriminate against Black, Indigenous, and people of colour."

Cleveland demanded the premier apologize.

"I have a lot of sadness right now because I can see that my colleague from Inuvik Twin Lakes is hurt. So I believe the only apology that is owed in this House is one from the premier to this side," Cleveland said.

After some discussion, the premier addressed the house and said she had "misinterpreted" the comments and withdrew her point of order but didn't address Cleveland's request.

Then after another short discussion and another request for an apology, the premier addressed MLAs

"I have no problem apologizing to the other side of the House. I believe that if we do things wrong, we need to stand up and be strong. And if the members are offended because I was offended because I thought that they were attacking my cabinet, then I shall apologize to the members if that's not what they meant," she said.