Carbine rifles not a priority for RCMP in 2009, Moncton Mounties shooting trial hears
Police force charged with violating Canada Labour Code in connection with deaths of 3 officers, wounding of 2
Arming front-line RCMP officers with carbine rifles was not a priority in 2009, a retired deputy commissioner testified Friday at the national police force's Labour Code trial in connection with the 2014 shooting deaths of three Moncton Mounties and wounding of two others.
The RCMP is charged with violating four provisions of the Canada Labour Code by allegedly failing to provide members with appropriate use-of-force equipment and training for responding to an active threat or active shooting event, and failing to ensure the health and safety of every person employed by the force.
Although the RCMP was looking into carbines in 2009, Darrell Madill acknowledged under cross-examination by the Crown the force was more focused on polices on use of force and Tasers and similar weapons after the 2007 Taser death of Robert Dziekański at the Vancouver airport.
"You had the opportunity to put [carbines] on the front burner, but you did not," prosecutor Paul Adams said.
"We had to build a case," replied Madill. The public backlash over Tasers following Dziekański's death illustrated the need for demonstrating due diligence, he said.
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The risk of the force losing Tasers in the fallout made collecting data about Taser use a high priority, said Madill.
"How many more officers would have to be killed before [carbines] became a top priority?" grilled Adams.
He noted nine of the last 10 officers murdered were killed by long guns. In the Moncton shootings, "we had three families destroyed," he said.
Adams asked whether it was fair to say the RCMP knew frontline officers were facing injury and death without being properly equipped.
Madill, whose job was operational policy, said he had established there was a firearms gap and a need, but weapons were not his responsibility.
If he had thought buying a carbine could save a life, or a family from hardship, he would have bought one himself, he said.
Carbines — high-powered, short-barrelled rifles that have a longer and more accurate range than a pistol or shotgun — were approved in September 2011, but the rollout took time, the trial has heard.
Several Crown witnesses have testified carbines could have made a difference in Justin Bourque's deadly shooting rampage on June 4, 2014.
Bourque was armed with an M305.308 semi-automatic rifle and a Mossberg 500 12-gauge shotgun when he fatally shot constables Douglas Larche, Dave Ross, and Fabrice Gevaudan, and wounded constables Darlene Goguen and Eric Dubois.
The responding officers were equipped only with pistols and shotguns. No carbines were available to them that night, the trial has heard.
Complex process
Earlier Friday, under direct examination by the defence, Madill said the RCMP couldn't just decide to roll out carbines. The force had to work out budget issues with its partners — the federal government, provinces and territories.
Carbine costs involved not only procurement but also deployment, training, ammunition and vehicle design, he said. Unilaterally rolling out a new weapon "would not have been seen as a positive step in our relationship."
The force also had to ensure the public was comfortable with officers being armed with the semi-automatic weapons, said Madill. The more force used by police, the more the public fears the police, he said.
2010 report disappointing
Criminologist Darryl Davies was commissioned in 2009 to study carbines, but Madill said he was disappointed with the report, filed in 2010.
There was no risk assessment and no public policy, said Madill.
"He didn't have the 'why'."
We gained nothing that would allow us to present an unbiased justified case to our partners.- Darrell Madill, retired RCMP deputy commissioner
Davies "either didn't understand or couldn't grasp what we were trying to accomplish."
Madill said he was hoping for a needs assessment and didn't feel he could take the report to his superiors as proof carbines were necessary.
"We gained nothing that would allow us to present an unbiased justified case to our partners."
So another researcher was hired, he said.
"I think we all knew it was coming."
At the time, the RCMP was also renegotiating its policing contract with provinces and territories, which was set to expire in 2012, said Madill.
Reviewing the 1992 agreement was complex, he said. The expectations of provinces and territories were much higher after 20 years.
Justin Bourque caused deaths, not RCMP
Carter reminded the court the RCMP is not charged with causing the deaths of the three Moncton Mounties.
It was Justin Bourque who was picking off police.
The main issues at this trial are carbine weapons and training, said Carter.
He said the evidence will show the force exercised due diligence in acquiring carbines. The RCMP needed to carefully study the weapons that are designed to be lethal before arming its officers with them, said Carter.
Not all carbines are the same, he said, citing the different barrel lengths and ammunition as examples. And it can be difficult to purchase weapons and accessories, with many parts coming from the United States, he said.
During closing arguments, the defence will provide a timeline of the development of the carbine rollout, said Carter
The defence also intends to prove the RCMP's training program was of high quality, he said.
No individual RCMP manager or supervisor is named in the charges. Each of the four charges carries a maximum fine of $1 million.
The trial, which started on April 24, is scheduled to resume on Tuesday morning. Two months have been set aside.
Bourque is serving five life sentences with no chance of parole for 75 years after pleading guilty to three counts of first-degree murder and two counts of attempted murder.
With files from Tori Weldon