Former B.C. House Speaker says he thought paying accused clerk was 'right decision'

The retired politician who signed off on a controversial quarter-million dollar payment to the former clerk of B.C.'s legislative assembly says he still thinks it was the right decision.

Former B.C. Speaker Bill Barisoff told Craig James' trial for breach of trust and fraud Monday that he approved long-term service awards for James and three others in 2012 after receiving legal advice.

James is accused of improperly claiming the award — which was created in 1984 as a retirement benefit for so-called "table officers" of the legislature, like the clerk, who were not covered by the government's pension plan.

Barisoff portrayed himself as a careful steward of the public purse who kept a sign in his office reminding him to 'Think Like a Taxpayer."

"Ultimately, when you're spending the money, it's not your money, you're spending someone else's money," Barisoff said in cross-examination.

"I truly believed that I made the right decisions, and that I have nothing to hide to say that I've done something and I didn't think it was right."

Fear of unfunded liability

James is accused of using his position as the clerk or chief executive officer of the legislative assembly to access the $257,988.38 payout and to improperly claim expenses for items ranging from clothing to cushions.

He's also alleged to have spearheaded a decision to use legislature funds to purchase a wood splitter and trailer that was kept at his home.

James has pleaded not guilty to all charges.

A large part of Barisoff's testimony concerned the subject of the retirement benefit, which came up in 2011 during his time as Speaker when it was raised by another table officer, assistant clerk Robert Vaive.

Vaive was dying of cancer and wanted to tie up loose ends.

Barisoff said Vaive believed he was entitled to a payment under the program, which guaranteed 13 days of salary for each year of service to a maximum of 20 years.

The former Speaker said there was also a threat of litigation, which he wanted to avoid.

According to documents filed in the criminal proceeding, Barisoff and James consulted with Victoria lawyer Donald Farquhar, who told Barisoff in a telephone conversation that Vaive, James and two others were entitled to the money.

The former Speaker said he made a decision to terminate the program at that time.

"I was very concerned about the unfunded liability that the legislative assembly or the taxpayers of B.C. would have to be involved in if this continued on," Barisoff said.

"Terminating the program was to clear the issue with Mr. Vaive and to make sure we had no unfunded liability with the taxpayers."

Not concerned with conflict of interest

Under questioning from the Crown, Barisoff said he was unaware of old memos that capped payments under the program as of April 1987.

He said he was also unaware that James had received a 10 per cent pay increase in 1987 to allow for the discontinuation of the provincial government's executive benefit program.

Barisoff said he wasn't concerned James would be placed in a conflict of interest by being both a recipient of such a large sum and a major part of the process through which it was awarded.

"No, I think I got legal advice to eliminate any of that," Barisoff said.

"Once I had legal advice, then I had somebody outside of the system."

The trial has previously heard about a decision by Kate Ryan-Lloyd, the woman who succeeded James as clerk, to return a $118,915.84 award that was issued to her at the same time as James.

Ryan-Lloyd said she felt "uncomfortable" with the size of the benefit and couldn't see the rationale for issuing it. She gave the money back nearly a year later after consulting with a lawyer and a tax lawyer.

She wrote a letter to James in February 2013 in which she said: "I continue to be uncomfortable with accepting such a sizeable payment as a long-service award."

Ryan-Lloyd acknowledged that both the man who served as clerk before James and former House Speaker Bill Barisoff assured her that she was eligible for the money.