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The Current Transcript for July 5, 2019

Host: Megan Williams

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

[Music: Theme]

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Would want to help people out of this place because this place is dangerous. Like me I don't know where to do. I don't know what to do. I don't know where to go.

MEGAN WILLIAMS: A plea for help from Nigerian migrant Osman Mousa who survived Wednesday's airstrike that hit a migrant detention centre in Libya killing dozens. These are some of the world's most vulnerable and invisible people. The thousands trapped and held in militia controlled camps in the war torn North African country. Coming up we'll hear more about who they are and the global calls to get them out. Then after that,.

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For a trans women of colour like myself we've lost lots of friends family sisters to the streets and there's no justice that usually happens.

MW: Today's a CBC podcast uncover the village takes us to Detroit. In the podcast final bonus episode we'll learn about the movement afoot to improve relations between the LGBTQ community there and police. Hello. I'm Megan Williams and this is the summer edition of The Current.

Migrants killed in Libyan airstrike were waiting to go home, says UN worker

Guests: Prince Alfani, Federico Soda

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[Noises]

MW: It's after dark and Jura Libya. The men are wearing face masks the reflector tape on their vests gleams under the street lamps. Their task is grim carrying the dead out of the migrant detention centre now in ruins. This is where the airstrike hit on Wednesday. Reports say at least 44 people were killed and more than 200 injured. The U.N. High Commission on Refugees is among those condemning the attack and calling for Libyan detention centres to be shut down. Spokesperson Charlie Yaxley.

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This was a very preventable tragedy that happened just two months ago. We warned after a similar air strike that injured two other refugees and migrants that this was a pressing danger and that the people inside needed to be urgently evacuated.

MW: Most of the migrants killed in the airstrike were from Sub-Saharan African countries many trying to make their way to Europe. And according to my first guest European and other Western powers are partly responsible for their fate. Prince Alfani is medicines on Frontieres Libyan medical coordinator. We've reached him in Tunis, Tunisia. Hello.

PRINCE ALFANI: Hello.

MW: What have you been hearing from your medical teams who reached to Jura?

PRINCE ALFANI: On the day of the accident, our team went on the [unintelligible] on the Tajoura detention centre and they manage to help evacuate four survivors who are in a very critical condition in one of our clinic. The next day we went back to detention centre which we provide medical assistance and food and water. The survivor were in really fear of their life.

MW: What kind of injuries was your team seeing there?

PRINCE ALFANI: Majority was trauma, injury, fracture, crushed bones that are hospitalized that currently in a hospital and receiving higher level care in one of the private hospitals in Tripoli.

MW: Now you mentioned that a lot of the people are afraid. Where are the migrants, a lot of the survivors, I should say, where are the migrants being held now after the airstrike on the detention centre?

PRINCE ALFANI: The migrants are still in the same detention centre, and some of them are sitting outside under the trees and some was able to get in some of the cell, the other cell which is kind of like a hangar within the detention centre. They have a lot of fear to do a detention centre. It's closed to military vicinity, a military location which might make it you know not excluded for another airstrikes. That's why we as an organization really calling for an immediate evacuation of those migrant and refugee in the detention centre.

MW: So why would a migrant detention centre be a target in the conflict going on in Libya?

PRINCE ALFANI: Because some of them are near a military location, military vicinity [unintelligible] one of them. So that makes kids very likely to be a target but also the detention centre managed by military and some of them are close to military vicinities so that's make them targets. It's something that happened in the past. The airstrikes may not the bombarding was just close to detention centre and then at that time we did call for immediate evacuation because there was a high risk that it going to happen. And now it's happened. I don't know for how many deaths it should be again wait before they immediately evacuate. That's not a safe place for people that just tried to flee their country for a better life to be held.

MW: Can you tell me about the migrants who are there? Where they're from and why they're being held there?

PRINCE ALFANI: So the majority of them are from Ivory Coast. Some of them from Tunisia or Egyptian, some Bangladeshi which we believe the majority of them are the one that was recently intercepts on the sea and brought back to the detention centre in Libya violation of international law. Because people that that intercept on the sea should be brought to a port of safety. It's a conflict zone and it's not a port of safety for the migrants. Migrants and refugee intercept on the sea should be brought to a port of safety not in Libya.

MW: Now these are people who are held in these detention centres and pay the traffickers to put them on the rubber dinghies and then get intercepted by the Libyan coast guard and brought back. Is that correct?

PRINCE ALFANI: It's correct because it's the only way for them to get out of the indefinite detention, to do that; to try to parse and cross the sea. Some of the interception happen in international waters. And the legal guard coast now can even go behind their normal area that they should be operating to intercept people which is clearly not normal, but they've been given this probably from the EU policy that they should go out because the EU is subcontract the Libyan guard coast to do that job and bring people back to Libya.

MW: Now the detention centre that was bombed was a detention centre that the UN knows about and has visited, but there were a lot of detention centres from what I understand that are not being visited. What are the conditions like that that are held by smugglers essentially, human traffickers? Can you tell me about the conditions in these centres?

PRINCE ALFANI: From what we've got from people that came from intercept on sea or came from the smuggler and trafficker they clearly told us that they're in a bad condition. They don't receive food water, those kind of the feeling that a human person should be receiving, they are not receiving that. They often have a severe condition like severe [unintelligible] infections and a severe [unintelligible] disease like [unintelligible].

MW: And what's the age range of the people in these centres?

PRINCE ALFANI: The majority of them are minors you know between 14 and 18 but you can also have people between 25 and 35 years.

MW: Now the U.N. and the International Organization on Migration they've been able to get a small number of people out. What do you make of those efforts to date?

PRINCE ALFANI: We are pushing hard for the evacuation. And unfortunately every one person put out of Libya two more are bring back. So the U.N. UNHCR will settle some of them, will pick them and bring them to some resettlement country. But then others will be trying to cross the sea. They will be intercepted and brought back to the detention centre. So if you went to take one out and then two will be bring back from the inception from the sea.

MW: So are the numbers growing and these reception centres in Libya.

PRINCE ALFANI: Yes the numbers are growing in the detention centre in Libya. The cycle will not end. And that should be end that's why as an organization again we're calling for an immediate evacuation and the close of the detention centre especially the ones that are close to the front line and to military vicinity.

MW: Right. Prince Alfani thanks so much for speaking with me today.

PRINCE ALFANI: You're welcome.

MW: Prince Al Fanny is Medicine Sans Frontieres medical coordinator for Libya. We reached him in Tunis, Tunisia. The International Organization for Migration is among those condemning the attacks. It's also been involved in the evacuation of migrants out of Libya. Federico Soda is the organization's director of coordination for them for the Mediterranean office. We've reached him in Rome. Hello.

FREDERICO SODA: Hi. Good morning.

MW: Good morning. Why does the Iowa I'm doing to get people out of this camp in Tripoli?

FREDERICO SODA: Well since the beginning of 2017 we've had a substantial program providing voluntary return assistance to those migrants that can return to their home countries. So we provide a safe dignified way back and then reintegration back in the communities of origin. We have repatriated about 43,000 people during this period including nearly 6000 in 2019. This work is ongoing among the many tragic aspects of the bombing of this detention centre. We actually had a number of migrants inside that centre that we are working with and that in one or two days would have been on their way home.

MW: How many people are there now? Do you have an idea?

FREDERICO SODA: Well we estimate- so there are about 26 detention centres that are operating right now. This number fluctuates up and down a little bit. We believe we estimate there's about 5800 migrants in detention at the present time. That's in the official centres under the authority of the government in Tripoli. And then an unknown number of people that are detention or let's say in formal confined area.

MW: In the hands of traffickers in other words.

FREDERICO SODA: Exactly.

MW: Now are we talking tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands? I mean how many other people are trapped in Libya?

FREDERICO SODA: Well look we estimate there's approximately 650,000 migrants in in Libya right now. About half of them are from neighbouring countries Chad Nasir and Egypt. And therefore you know are able to return back home relatively easily.

MW: Now before the fall of Gadhafi's regime a few years ago Libya was a destination for many migrants in terms of it was. It was a place where they could work. And of course that changed and migrants- we've heard terrible reports coming out of Libya in these camps; torture, extortion, murder. Do you think that the migrants from sub-Saharan Africa have a sense of what's in store for them in Libya?

FREDERICO SODA: I don't think they do. I think that the numbers moving toward Libya have decreased over the last few years. So that perhaps an indicator that awareness about the risks is more widespread. However as you mentioned Libya was an important destination country before. There were well over twice the number of migrants that are there now working in in the Libyan labour market. And I think that what drives people is really hope on one hand and great difficulties and desperation on the other. Those are very very powerful drivers.

MW: We know some of the migrants are being airlifted or flown to Niger. How are you. As part of the IOA I'm helping them get there and what's happened to the people once they get to Niger?

FREDERICO SODA: Well the ones that we work with we would- we also have reception centres in Indonesia a number of them where we can safely accommodate people while we take care of them and organize their onward travel. The ones we deal with would be basically returns to Niger so that we can then facilitate the onward movement to their countries of origin. There are also mechanisms to move refugees out of Libya. So people who cannot return to their country of origin and need a safe country of settlement needs to be identified for them.

MW: Is Canada taking any of these people?

FREDERICO SODA: Canada is taking people but Canada is taking them directly out of Libya.

MW: Okay. Now as we've heard a lot of a lot of people are trapped there in the sense that they come to Libya now perhaps hoping to get to Europe, and since last summer in Italy - who took most of the people who managed to get across the sea or rescued partway across the sea and brought to Italy - Italy has closed its port. Its far right interior minister says that he will not allow any of the humanitarian rescue boats to bring the rescued migrants and refugees to Italy. He's accusing them of aiding people smugglers. What's your reaction to that?

FREDERICO SODA: Well we have been calling for greater collaboration, all the countries around the Mediterranean north and south of it to basically respect their international obligations to accept people and to allow them disembark if they've been rescued at sea. That's one part of the story. The other part of course is that the story doesn't end when people disembark. They need to be assisted and services need to be provided to them. And there are risks and vulnerability need to be assessed. So there are there are issues related to the responsibility sharing which goes well beyond countries who bear the brunt of the migration flows because of the geographic position. And really this is something that has been sorely missing particularly in the European Union. And in fact the result is Italy's position is the result in large part of I think what is an incomplete migration and asylum policy for the European Union whereby the countries cannot agree on how to deal with this with this phenomenon.

MW: Okay. Federico we just have a few seconds left but I want to ask you also about the efforts that the UN has made to strengthen the Libyan coast guard. What does this mean for migrants and this is the Coast Guard that's an intercepting the boats who that are attempting to leave Libyan waters and sometimes the accusation is actually intercepting them in international waters.

FREDERICO SODA: Yes. I mean I think that statement requires some clarification. The involvement, our involvement, with respect to Libyan coast guard has been in relation to human rights principles and training. Basically how to ensure that they are operating in line with international standards and in some cases providing lifesaving equipment.

MW: But the accusation is we often don't even know who these people are, it could be armed gangs. Well it can be.

FREDERICO SODA: But you know that the Libyan coast guard itself in terms of who's conducting the the rescues. It can be very fragmented. But we have basically we've been working ith those parts that can be considered most reliable. I mean as long as we're providing training that is geared toward international standards lifesaving measures and compliance with basic humanitarian principles, then I think that's worth doing.

MW: Okay. We're going to have to leave there. Thanks very much for speaking with me today.

FREDERICO SODA: Thank you very much. Bye bye.

MW: Federico Soda is the director of coordination for the Mediterranean office at the International Organization for Migration. He was in Rome. We contacted the Canadian government for comment. Global Affairs Canada sent this statement quote: "Canada strongly condemns the airstrike on the migrant and refugee detention centre and calls on all parties in the armed conflict to protect civilians allowing safe rapid and unhindered access to humanitarian assistance for those in need. It also calls for a ceasefire and for the UN to lead efforts for a political reconciliation". CBC News is next then the final episode of the CBC investigative podcast Uncover: The Village. Today a bonus one about a U.S. city that's taking action to improve relations between the police and the LGBTQ community. I'm Megan Williams And you're listening to the summer edition of The Current.

Cockroaches, Uncover: The Village Ep.9

MW: Hello I'm Megan Williams and you're listening to the summer edition of The Current.

[Music: Theme].

MW: Still to come the final episode of the CBC podcast Uncover: The Village. But first the noisy little bug that's so easy to hate and so hard to get rid of.

[Sound: Cockroach hiss].

MW: Yes. The cockroach. They hiss. They scuttle. Some even glow. And now new research shows that they have an amazing capacity to resist the chemicals designed to kill them. A study from Purdue University shows cockroach populations that are growing resistant to insecticides and passing that trait along to future generations. By the way a female cockroach can give birth every three months to about 50 babies. That might strike fear into the hearts of most people. It does me but not Jason Biddle. He's a freelance science writer for National Geographic and The Washington Post and he's actually grown fond of the little creatures.

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I love cockroaches because there are tons and tons of cockroaches out there living in the world doing their thing that we really never see. The amount of diversity found in cockroaches is mind boggling. There are huge cockroaches that can be mistaken for small tortoises there are Itty Bitty itty bitty cockroaches that can be mistaken for those tortoise looking cockroaches poop. There are cockroaches that look like ladybugs. There are cockroaches they can swim under water with a snorkel that actually comes out of their butts. There are cockroaches that can fly. There are some that can swim in sand. There are cockroaches that actually produce a sort of milk for their babies so they're actually really good mothers. It's a shame that we really only had this negative experience with zero point five percent of all the cockroach species. I should say even though I have had cockroaches in and around my home I have never really had an infestation that I think probably is what makes most people hate them with the fires of hell we need to accept that the ones that we know are just barely a sliver of all the cockroaches out there. So we're painting with a pretty broad brush whenever we say that you know we should get rid of all the cockroaches. My favourite cockroach is called the glow spot cockroach. And these little guys actually live in the Brazilian rainforest and they have two little bumps on their faces that in the night burn like lanterns. And if you see them lit up these two little yellow greenish circles make them look like the jawas from Star Wars. The American cockroach can run four times as fast as a cheetah and it can do it on your ceiling. That's pretty amazing. I know that that's probably not what you want to hear if you're actually chasing after these guys and trying to get rid of them but you have to just - you know - you might just be able to take a moment and appreciate the wonder that is this animal in your in your presence.

MW: The size of small tortoises. Oh God. Science writer Jason Biddle. Cast your vote please for or against the cockroach at our website cbc.ca/thecurrent or on Twitter @TheCurrentCBC or find us on Facebook. You're listening to the summer edition of The Current on CBC Radio 1. I'm Megan Williams. Now the final episode of the latest season of the CBC podcast Uncover: The Village. Relations between the police and the gay community are tense in many parts of North America but in Detroit Michigan there's a task force that focuses on serious crimes against LGBTQ people. And that's the focus of this bonus episode of The Village. And a warning, this episode has descriptions of violence.

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JUSTIN LING: Last summer I met up with trans activist Nicky Ward in the park next to the 519 Community Centre in Toronto. She took me over to a brick wall at the far end of the park to show me something.

NICKY: What we have in front of us is the symbol for transgender which is a uniform internationally recognized that there are flags and so forth. But this symbol is something we know to be ours and it is female, male. And mind your own business. And so this is a large circle of white chalk. And then on to the side of some names written in different chalk. This is just the first name of someone who has passed recently. So we set this up here. And it's very modest. What happens is this the symbol here is restored on a regular basis. We have to clean it up a little bit. Just chalk.

JUSTIN LING: It just chalk.

NICKY: Just chalk which is a testament to how was much respected by those people on the street. There's no tags here there's no graffiti. It's just chalk. As you can see faded names here that fade with the natural passing of time. This may be the only place where this name appears because when a trans person dies, the body reclaimed by the family of origin and their name then evaporates, so they die twice. First individually and then then they are with the wrong name on a grave stone so is the only place. Now you can't see it but I can see all of the other names on here that were written on here. Trans people in Toronto and elsewhere are at particular risk for marginalization. And this memorial is just one way to remember those who have died.

NICKY: And you'll say this people kind of very little object sitting here. Tokens. What have you. It's very- I say it's impossible to be moved by that. I also hope that's true. And oftentimes when they're doing a memorial in the park en masse and they have candles people will come to one side and put a candle or two here.

JUSTIN LING: Throughout this series we've seen how discrimination can disrupt and even end the lives. The victims who went missing from the village were often men of colour, immigrants or refugees. They were people who may have not been comfortable going to police if they felt unsafe.

NICKY: The chances of being criminalized as you report a crime against you whether you a recent immigrant, whether you have different status, unemployed maybe you have a history of drugs, whatever. The chances of being you being charged with a crime when you report a crime somebody else are actually quite high. So of course it's distrust and then when we're talking about issues around physical assault and sexual assault. Not only is there a some stigma associated with that regardless of whether you're a trans woman or a gay man or however you identify. There are also sensitivities around that.

JUSTIN LING: While we were in Michigan investigating the murder of Markel Kosky We heard about an initiative called the Justice Project. The aim of the project is to ensure that everybody in the community feels respected by both the police and the courts. A victim's advocate works with witnesses and survivors while a special prosecutor tries cases of serious crimes against LGBTQ people. Our producer Aaron Burns went back to Detroit to learn more about what impact the Justice Project is having in the community. Specifically when it comes to the lives of trans women of colour.

AARON BURNS: Good afternoon.

KELLY'S MOM: Good afternoon.

AARON BURNS: How did you know Kelly?

KELLY'S MOM: She's my daughter my child.

AARON BURNS: How old was Kelly at the time of her death?

KELLY'S MOM: 36.

AARON BURNS: Kelly was born Tristan is that correct?

KELLY'S MOM: Correct.

AARON BURNS: And she identified as Kelly.

KELLY'S MOM: Yes.

AARON BURNS: That she identified as Kelly most of her life?

KELLY'S MOM: No.

AARON BURNS: But at the time of her death Your daughter was named Kelly Stowe.

KELLY'S MOM: Yes.

AARON BURNS: Did you go to the Wayne County Medical Examiner's Office?

KELLY'S MOM: Yes.

AARON BURNS: For what purpose?

KELLY'S MOM: To identify my child.

AARON BURNS: That's Kelly Stone's mother. She's in court describing how she had to identify her daughter's body. The court respected Kelly's true name and gender identity and someone was arrested for her murder. This might not have happened a few years ago. Trans women of colour are demanding justice for their community. And finally they're being heard. Kelly's case is being handled by the team at the Justice Project. They can't speak to the media about an ongoing case. So the first person you'll hear from is Liliana Angel Reyes as the director of a drop in centre for LGBTQ youth in Detroit. All of these women are at the frontlines of an epidemic of violence against trans women of colour. This is their story in their words.

LILIANA: Detroit is one of my most favourite places in the world. Detroit has one of the strongest Mexican town or Latino populations and one of the largest populations of Arab Americans outside of the Middle East. And so Detroit really is a hub for all kinds of culture and beauty and resiliency. Where you don't have to strip who you are. So there are neighbourhoods where you can be who you are. Talk in your language and never leave that neighbourhood if you so choose. For many people though Detroit is a really rough place to live. The economy took a turn. So did the resources. And then you started seeing people leave the communities if they were able to. For the LGBT community it's even harder. So my name is Liliana Angel Reyes. I am currently the director of second story strap in at Ruth Ellis centre as well as the executive director of transistors of colour project. For many black and brown LGBT people specifically people who transitioned we come out really young. And so sometimes we come out with no support and families kick us out or beat us or hurt us or even kill us. And so because of that we come out and there's nothing to do. You can't go get a job you don't want to go to the foster care system. But because of that people start 13-14. I was 17 when I transition and started doing sex work right on the stroll a mile away. I didn't go there to do sex work. There's a lot of drug use. And so some girls overdose. Some girls freeze to death on the stroll because they are homeless. It happens so easy and so quick that you're sometimes caught up in a system that you don't really realize you're a part of until it's really difficult to leave. In the early 2000s a lot of girls were murdered by their dates and pushed out the car and nothing happened. And so for trans women of colour like myself we've lost lots of friends, family, sisters to the streets and there's no justice that usually happens. When one of us was murdered nothing happened. No one did anything. It was our fault. We did something wrong and Detroit has a really rough history with LGBT people. And so Detroit can be the most beautiful place but it could be the most scariest place. So Julissa is my sister in this work in this life. You really have to find people who not only just embrace who you are but who are you.

JULISSA: And we connected because she's Hispanic and I was inspired that there was another trans woman that was Latina like myself because there's not many here in Detroit that do the advocacy work that we do. It has felt like home. We were able to talk Spanish together.

LILIANA: And we find solace in like being around each other and talking about our hopes and our dreams and our struggles and our trauma. And Julissa has given me a friend that I don't think this show ever understand what she's giving me. Like she's giving me a safety net a foundation that allows me to know that I'm not the only one doing this work. Julissa also does a different type of work than I do. She's much more in the trenches. When something happens she's the first person that they call. And I don't know that I could do the work that she does.

JULISSA: Six smiling woodwork. Freezing cold. If you didn't have anywhere to live and you were homeless it would be horrible conditions. Came in smoke a cigarette and I threw it on the floor because my hand feels like it's going to freeze. So this laundry mat is where some of the girls with the cars park. If it was warmer or summertime, the jawns sometimes pulling here. Cars go up and down all hours of the night. A lot of abandoned buildings. There is drug usage. Drug dealer, it is just not a safe area. And that's where a lot of the trans women stand to do survival sex work. And they walk from here as far down to 8 Mile. The next street over is where it went up the trans girls were shot. But it's really really unfortunate because even in these brutal conditions like people will be out here. And the jawns will pull over and go really slow like the original car that passed. That's why I really really slow to see what we're doing. It's no different than that. I just feel like this was way too dangerous. In the beginning we stand out here with the girls that I would consider my friends and that I knew. And would write down licence plate numbers. Just how I started advocating just because so many girls either they were getting robbed or assaulted and murdered. He was parked in. That's exactly how it is. It's like leave me alone for like three minutes, I'm not even joking, like 20 cars a full lap and they'll say exactly what he said. Which is you need a ride? No. I got money. I kept walking. You need a ride. And then honestly I turned. I don't want him to pull up on me.

JULISSA: [To Aaron] So my name is Julissa Abahad. I work at the fair Michigan Justice Project that specifically works on addressing LGBT and trans crimes. A lot of people don't know my background or story but I didn't have a horrific childhood being trans. I actually had really good parents. I was brought up in a good household, had an education and have college degree. I speak three languages. I moved to this area. I googled gay friendly places when I got here. I originally did not know that it was like the concrete jungle. I had enough income to last me for a year where I was good. After that I started trying to find employment here. It just did not happen. So when I moved out here at first I would see LGBT individuals and trans individuals like myself. In Florida there really isn't a space or place where trans women congregate. So when I would first see them I was excited because I felt like there was like a community like myself. I didn't realize that they were all outside because we had to do survival sex work. I've lost- I've been here eight years. I've lost two friends. Bills don't stop obviously. So I don't feel like I've ever have been able to grieve. And because I know what it was before I was where I'm at now I have this phobia; one day me waking up and all this not being real like it being a dream. Sometimes it's really surreal to me how far I've come. That's another reason why I work as hard as I do.

AARON BURNS: Liliana works hard to help her community too. And she always has. She was looking out for people well before she worked as an official advocate.

LILIANA: So I remember when I used to be on the sex straw and something would happen you didn't call the police you just figured it out or you just dealt with it. Back when I used to do it back in the early 2000s we would have boys come with us. That would supervise us and watch us. Just to make sure things were okay. So we created our own policing system and so we rely on each other. We talked to each other about what dates we don't trust what dates we do trust. We grew up hating the police because they would come and be like have sex with us or otherwise we're going to take you to jail. So we would have sex with them. So the police are really rough to us. Back in the day when we first started out one of our sisters name was Shelly. She helped the police find a drug dealer. They caught him put him in jail. They gave her a police officer or had a police officer work with her and he told that she told on him. They decapitated her and let her on fire. The LGBT movement has gained some rights but not for trans people. When gay marriage became legal. That year I think is 2015 2016 that year and two or three years after that we're one of the highest rates of trans people, specifically trans women of colour, being murdered in the United States. So it is is very scary that I could be living my life and someone could decide who I am, never talking to me, never interacting with me, just who I am is enough to take me out of this world. And then the fear that if that happens nothing could happen to them.

ELANE: I'm Elane McGuire. I am the president of the board air Michigan Foundation. We got together initially that saw our founder Dana Nestle who's now actually full disclosure my wife. In 2015 she was part of a team of attorneys who brought suit that went all the way up to the Supreme Court. You may know it as Oberg Bergenfield v. Hodges. Our case was part of those four cases that went up to the Supreme Court and actually legalized same sex marriage in the United States. People could start getting married. And what we were noticing though, because Michigan specifically does not have protections in place for discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity, you could get married on a Saturday go into work, tell your employer that you want to add your spouse to your health insurance plan for example. That employer could find out you're gay and fire you. And there's absolutely nothing you have no legal recourse. So the most sort of impact of discrimination. I think I think you really have to look to the trans community and particularly trans women of colour. Our project shows that for the 26 cases that we have prosecuted since our founding in 2016, half of those victims are trans in terms of violent nature of our assault of crimes. That I think I think the trans community bears the brunt of that more so than any other group. So we established Fair Michigan initially as a ballot initiative and we were hoping to amend the Michigan constitution to include sexual orientation gender identification and actually interestingly gender. Michigan is not alone either in that form of allowing discrimination there are many states that do. There are no federal statutes dictating that kind of thing either. 2018 was a pretty banner year for my household. My wife decided to run for attorney general. On election night Dana gave a pretty powerful speech.

DANA: You see my beautiful wife thank you for sitting with me through all of this. Thank you, Elana, I love you. And for all of you out there they can't handle the fact that I am about to become a first openly gay person to hold statewide office.

ELANE: And then she paused and grabbed me and gave me a very public kiss in front of everyone. I don't know what mood struck her but I think it was sort of a reaction to sort of the months and months of people taking shots at her. I can say that it was it was fun to be a part of something like that. And I think it was kind of just a very subtle like 'yes I see you'. She was the first statewide elected official who was LGBT. I think that that particular representation matters tremendously to the LGBT community because the attorney general is the state's top law enforcement official. Signature project is the fair Michigan Justice Project. I think we have some of the most professional dedicated incredible people working for our organization. Julissa she is in the community each and every day. She came to us actually the very first day that we announced the Justice Project. She contacted Dana and said what can I do to help.

JULISSA: I originally saw the news talking about the Justice Project and Dana Nestle and around that same time I lost two trans sisters that were murdered in this area. I reached out to Dana Nestle called her and asked her if she had two minutes, basically explained to her my story. What it is that trans women have to go through and I just honestly pleaded my case and told her the truth. I just need someone to believe in me and give me an opportunity. And she did. And so I am the director of advocacy for trans individuals at Fair Michigan. And so a lot of the trans women that get beat up, assaulted, have been raped and robbed have come and knocked on this door here and all the other doors to the apartments that I've had. And on every instance that I called Jamie because we know that crime doesn't have a time. So whether it's 1:00 in the morning midnight 5:00 in the morning she has answered. She has made sure that she calls police departments and lets them know that I am on the way with the victims, that they treat us with respect and they're culturally competent. And she just honestly she goes above and beyond for my community and she doesn't necessarily have to. And not everybody does. And she's one of the best allies that I think we have here.

[/sc].

MW: You're listening to the village the latest season of the CBC investigative podcast Uncover. We'll finish the episode in our next half hour. And if you missed any of it you can download all episodes wherever you find your podcasts. I'm Megan Williams And you're listening to the summer edition of The Current.

Uncover: The Village Ep.9

MW: I'm Megan Williams And you're listening to the summer edition of The Current. Now for the final instalment of the CBC podcast Uncover The Village. Today the story of a task force in Detroit that investigates and prosecutes crimes against the LGBTQ community. And a warning this episode has descriptions of violence.

SOUNDCLIP

JANIE: My name is Janie Pell Horowitz. I'm the special prosecutor for the fair Michigan Justice Project. This project got started because back in 2014 and 15 we had an unprecedented number of trans women of colour who were killed in the city and the cases weren't being closed. The project is a private public partnership between fair Michigan which is a non-profit it's an LGBTQ advocacy organization and the Wayne County Prosecutor's Office. Wayne County Prosecutor's Office assigns to us cases that involve bias crimes against the communities when people are targeted because of their sexual orientation and gender identity. We don't have a hate crime law in Michigan to address those cases. Yeah. We are doing the cases because we know they exist and we're treating them like hate crime cases. You can't change a law unless you can collect the data to show that there is an actual problem.

HARAN: When I began working with her, especially in my community it was really hard for me to bring her around. It was already hard for my community to come forward and report crimes so they didn't feel really comfortable having to reach out to a white cis gender woman that they felt wouldn't understand their struggle.

JANIE: We're lucky in this community that we had Julissa somebody who could kind of vouch for us and to go and to say 'Hey'. Police always tells me all right. I tell them there's this new prosecutor and then I tell them she's a lady. She's cis gender and then I throw in that she's white and the whole room is like 'Oh no no no'. So I take a little more time to build that trust and keep showing up.

HARAN: Janie Powell has always been really supportive. She's always been open to learning which I love about her. She always ask a lot of questions. We've had conversations where sometimes show like. Not see something from a perspective would have to be like well know and I explain it to her from a trans experience and she's absolutely amazing.

JANIE: Silesia is a force of nature. Everyone who meets her instantaneously loves her no matter what walk of life they come from. The court cases involving the trans community the first step for the furnishing Justice Project was to go back and start looking at those cases not just to look at those cases but to see what we could change in the future. Because obviously there's a reason when you have so many people in one small community losing their lives in a very short period of time and not being able to solve those. There is a breakdown. Something's gone wrong. There was a case in Wayne County. There's also one in Oakland where there were trans women of colour who had cooperated in an investigation and were killed. And obviously this is a small community everyone talks to each other and that the message that that sends is you know if you cooperate with the police you know you could potentially lose your life.

HARAN: Keep in mind that if community as a whole sees police and people in authority not respecting you and not treating you with dignity what is going to make the community feel like they should treat you any better. Honestly. When the girls would get assaulted or beat up they would be criminalized for prostitution but not address the fact that they were just robbed or beat up or raped or again they would be mis gendered and not treated with respect to where they're not going to go to the police station and report. If you have a warrant and you know that they're not going to take you serious. Now you're going to go to jail and you're still in the same position that you were in before you were out there which is trying to eat and survive.

JANIE: With the LGBTQ community they have stopped going to the police because they have learned that when they call, no one is going to come and if they do come they're not going to take it seriously or respect them. We broke trust with them. We can't just sit here and wait for them to report. It is up to our community to keep going back to that community to make sure that they know this system can work for them. This community is treated with excessive brutality. These women are shot while they're in cars. They are dumped. They are left for dead. I think we see a lot of johns that would literally rather kill these women than be caught with some. I always get upset when I see cases in the paper and the comments are always 'oh well he was probably surprised that she was transgender'. I have never seen that. Never. These are people who, because of the stigmatization associated with being trans, these men also see these women as less than human and because of stigma they should also hate themselves for their preference. So they're likely to act on that violence and they're likely to act on that hatred, and when they do so they often describe what they have done in ways that, not just dehumanize the victim but it's almost as if the jawns that we see feel that it's okay to exact violence against US community after they patronize them. There's just no remorse for it. If you go to rob someone or you go to rape someone and then you start using slurs and you up the ante with the violence most certainly that is a hate crime. There were two individuals who decided that they were going to specifically look for a trans woman to Rob. They pull up to her on the corner. One person gets out of the car with a 22 rifle. Co-defendant, Mr. Williams, takes her purse. She actually drops it on the ground. He takes it goes to get back in the car. She goes to run away. It's over. And Charles Brown guns her down as she's running away. The two defenders were fleeing from the police and there was a police chase. And we always get body cams now. And you could hear on the body cams one of the officers as he's chasing one of the defendants. They shot a transgender person. You can't do that anymore. Oh no. They have a special unit. Oh no. You can't do that anymore. She was paralyzed for almost eight months but by the time he got to trial she was able to walk into court with a cane and testify and identify her shooter. Now here's the effect of treating these cases like hate crimes. The police are taking them more seriously. They love the fact that they have an investigator a prosecutor at their disposal will answer our phones all hours of the night. They're going to be dealing with one person from start to finish. When we first started I routinely had to go to Julissa, 'Please please bring this person to talk to me, please, tell us first if we're going to we're going to fight really hard for them'. It took a lot of convincing the victims and the witnesses in that community that we really were there for them and we were going to take the violence against the community seriously. Now. I show up and they talk to me. They know we're going to take it seriously that we're getting the results and that we're going to make sure that they get through the process as easily as they can.

HARAN: So tomorrow I can say that we will be working a case. I can't discuss the case but I will be there in the role as a victim advocate.

JANIE: So in our cases many times we prepare our victims and we prepare witnesses. And we practice with them. How are you going to handle this situation when it happens?

HARAN: I myself as the victim advocate will make sure that I'm there with you the whole time in court talking to you walking you through it. Sometimes the defense's job is to throw you off your square rattle you. So I try to tell our victims that not everybody is going to be respectful unfortunately but when they ask you a question. Look at me. Even if the question is disrespectful and it bothers you act like me and you are having a conversation. So that it just helps them get through it better.

JANIE: We're going to be going to hold a preliminary examination for the murder of a trans woman of colour. Albert Weathers is charged with murdering Kelly Stowe. This is a probable cause hearing that will be held in front of Judge Michael Wagner. We're going to put on evidence to show that there is probable cause that this defendant murdered this victim.

HARAN: Also go to make sure that my community members that are there are respected that they get into the courtroom with no issue. I need people at authority and people there just to see that they have an advocate just like any other person would have representation or an advocate.

JANIE: We're working on some cases now where it's kind of a first that the entire community is now circling around their victims and their witnesses to help provide them support when they come into the justice system.

HARAN: So yes you're not going to know that we exist if we don't ever come out. You're not going to know the disparities that we go through if we don't ever talk about them. We're not going to know any statistical numbers if we're not ever writing them down or seeing representation. So I want my community always to be there and be present. I want people to know that we are here and we're going to rally together and this isn't OK and acceptable anymore.

NEWSCASTERS: The big story. Hate crime. A pastor now charged in the murder of a transgender woman. He has aunts, her grandmother. She has a lot of people who love her. She was loved, you know people cared. She just went nobody. The mother of Kelly Stowe is devastated trying to come to grips with her murder. The case is being handled by a special prosecutor with the fair Michigan Justice Project which assists police and prosecutors in solving serious crimes against lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transgender persons.

PRODUCER: Nobody from the Justice Project can speak about anyone connected to an ongoing case. But Liliana knew Kelly they were friends.

LILIANA: What I do know about Kelly as I've known her for almost a decade. So we were in the ballroom scene. It is that resilient network of LGBT people specifically black and brown. It started in New York and it created this family for LGBT people. And I knew her for years and years and she was one of the sweetest people ever. And actually her and I were in the same house we were in the House of Ebony and so the House of Ebony is one of the largest houses in the ballroom scene. It's one of the oldest houses and it is a space where they honour the girls and they call the femme Queens which are trans women they call them Ebony pearls and there's so much safety that goes with them. The men make sure that they are protecting the girls so you can walk as a model but you're not really a model. And so within there are houses or families that you become a part of. And whenever you go to a bar you'll hear Ebony chant because there's so many members and it's like a big family reunion.

[Music]

LILIANA: Girls are put on a platform and it's really beautiful in the way that they humble themselves to the girls. And so any girl and the Ebony will always feel like she's safe in a ball. And it's a house where it's really a family and it's really lots of love that comes from it. So she walked face because she was beautiful and she could do makeup like nobody's business. And she would always want to do the girls makeup so that they could feel the most beautiful that they could. Kelly was probably one of the most funniest people that you would ever meet. She was hilarious. And so we spent a lot of times having fun and laughing. She believed in sticking up for the girls. She believed in the rights of trans women of colour.

PRODUCER: In 2015 the Detroit police held a meeting in Palmer Park to address violence against LGBTQ people. Some individual officers had been working respectfully with the communities but the relationship with police in general was rough.

KELLY: We're asking for your sympathy and your concern. We're not asking you to punish us to throw us in jail. You know what I'm saying? Because that's not going to do any good.

PRODUCER: Kelly attended the meeting to share her thoughts on how the police were interacting with her community. This is Kelly.

KELLY: We're not asking for you sir. You know to keep throwing the [unintelligible] at us. We're asking for your help and your concern. These are cries for help and attention and love and you people that serve and protect from inside of your vehicle. I'm not doing that. Unless you're in the middle of the street, dead, bleeding or something like that, you can flag down the police and they just drive by past you like you've never flagged them down.

LILIANA: And she was one of the sweetest people in the world. She would literally give you the clothes off her back. And people say that about people but she really would. She would literally go, 'well here's my coat. It's negative five. Here's my coat. Because you need it'. Sometimes in a community when there's a lot of trauma and oppression sometimes it's easier to turn on the people much like you. So there's a lot of infighting. Kelly wasn't about that. She was about making sure that girls felt beautiful and safe. When she passed away the thought of that not being in the community anymore - because it's rough to be in this community without having those type of spirits or presence - when she left it felt like there was a piece of a lot of us that was taken.

PRODUCER: Albert Weathers a former pastor has been charged with the murder of Kelly Stowe. This is the preliminary examination. The prosecution will try to prove that they have probable cause that a crime was committed. And that the defendant committed the crime. The defence has entered a plea of not guilty and will present their arguments when and if the case goes to trial. Albert Weathers has said that he shot Kelly accidentally and in self-defence when she tried to rob him. These are some of the prosecution's witnesses.

PROSECUTOR: Did you call 911.

WITNESS: Yes I did. Later surely the FSA laid on the ground that had their hand up and there was a cell phone in hand and his driver got out from the driver's side. Walked over to the person on the ground snatched the phone out there and walked back again, got into the car.

PRODUCER: The eyewitness says he saw someone threw a person out of a car as she was lying there. That person took her cell phone from her hand got back in the car and drove away. Janie Powell Horowitz calls a forensic pathologist to the stand.

PROSECUTOR: How long does it take to die from a wound like this?

PATHOLOGIST: From just the lungs being hit I would estimate it would take minutes to maybe more than an hour.

PROSECUTOR: Doctor in your opinion as a medical examiner, do you think it would be possible for her life to have been saved if she'd had immediate medical attention?

PATHOLOGIST: It was possible I would say.

PROSECUTOR: Did you determine the cause and manner of death?

PATHOLOGIST: Yes.

PROSECUTOR: What was the cause of death in this case?

PATHOLOGIST: Cause was gunshot wound to the chest.

PRODUCER: The prosecution has one last witness for the first day of this examination.

PROSECUTOR: Thank you. Good afternoon. Could you please state your name for the record.

KYRA: Tavaras Butts.

PROSECUTOR: What is your name that use everyday?

KYRA: Kyra.

PROSECUTOR: Your legal name is Tavaras?

KYRA: Yes.

PROSECUTOR: You are a transgender woman?

KYRA: Yes.

PROSECUTOR: Your family and friends call you Kyra.

KYRA: Yes.

PROSECUTOR: Miss. Butts I want to take you back to December 7th of 2018. Did you know a person by name of Kelly Stowe?

KYRA: Yes I do.

PROSECUTOR: How did you know Kelly?

KYRA: That was like a very close friend of mine you could say like a best friend. A sister.

PROSECUTOR: You hung out together frequently?

KYRA: Yes.

PROSECUTOR: Can you please tell me what you know about the area of Six Mile and Woodward and Six Mile and John R?

KYRA: Yes. Six Mile and lower than that area mainly where you'll find a lot of LGBTQ transgender women and also a lot of in my words sex workers.

PROSECUTOR: Did you do survival sex work?

KYRA: Yes I do.

PROSECUTOR: Sex work is work. Survival sex is selling sex because you don't have any other options.

PROSECUTOR: And where would Kelly typically work.

KYRA: Along with me in Six Mile.

DEFENSE: Objection.

PROSECUTOR: This is the defence attorney.

DEFENSE: On the date of December 7, 2018 were you at a location on McNichols and Brush?

KYRA: No.

DEFENSE: So you have no knowledge or any understanding of what occurred that early morning hours is that correct?

KYRA: Not at the time, no.

DEFENSE: All right. Well let me back up here to see. I didn't quite get your name it's Tavares Butts is that correct?

JANIE: Objection. The witness's name is Kyra.

PRODUCER: This is the judge.

DEFENSE: Well she says she goes by Kyra. When she took the stand she said her name was Tavaras. What's your real name?

JANIE: Excuse me.

PRODUCER: Well the defence attorney asks Kyra what her real name is. He argues that he wants to hear her legal name because among other things many people use aliases. Janie Paul Horowitz seems to see it differently. She wants to make sure the Kyra isn't mis gendered in court.

JANIE: That is extremely insensitive and inappropriate.

DEFENSE: No it's not. When she walked up and she said her name was Tavaras Butts.

JANIE: Mr. Krebs is using this as an intimidation tactic. He knows that this witness goes by Kyra. At this point he is seeking to embarrass and humiliate her. Did you ever see Kelly Stowe doing survival sex work?

KYRA: Yes.

MW: Frequently.

KYRA: Yes.

JANIE: Do you know a person who is Albert Weathers?

KYRA: Yes.

JANIE: Do you see him in the palm today.

KYRA: Yes.

JANIE: For the records please indicate where he's seated and what he's wearing.

KYRA: He has on a green Wayne County outfit.

JANIE: Let the record reflect what has identified the defendant in this case Albert Weathers. Miss Butts you stop taking dates with Mr. Weathers?

KYRA: Yes his attitude is like very aggressive and kind of intimidating. Like he is one of those easily intimidated people. And I just don't like altrecation, he is so aggressive.

JANIE: The trans women who work together in this area do you discuss your jawns.

KYRA: Yes. Some. Not for detail but we do like I know him, or I see him or I don't get in the car. Yes.

JANIE: Did you and Kelly interact regarding Mr. weathers.

KYRA: Yes.

JANIE: Thank you. Nothing further.

LILIANA: So Kyra she used to be Ebony too. Kyra is also my sister that we've known 12 years I think. And I really command I mean like Jamie is my heart. But I really command that the judge because there's been lots of cases where they will not say she. They'll look at a girl and say he and use their name even when they tell him not to. And so I'm really happy that in this space they upheld an environment to the extent that they could of safety because Kyra has been Kyra for 10-12 years. And so for like people that may think well just change your name like it's much much difficult. It's really expensive. It's also very intimidating. You have to go in front of a judge, in front of dozens of people and be like 'I'm transgender I would like to change my name'. So it can be really scary. And so I'm glad that Kyra was uplifted as Kyra because that's who she is. We want her to know that her voice is being carried by all of us and she'll never be alone through any of this. And so we're all very very close. We're very tight knit in Detroit. And so we wanted to make sure that Kyra didn't feel alone. So every single time there is a hearing or it goes to court we want to be there as many people as possible. And so it really is just about, one, to support Kyra, two, to let the family know that their daughter was loved and will always be loved and, three, 3 let the courts know and the murderer and his family know that this is not acceptable and that you didn't just kill a person you killed our family. I am not sure that you would have seen Kyra on the stand without fair Michigan, specifically because both Jamie and Julissa were the people that supported Kyra in this Kyra did not want to get on the stand in the first place let me say that. So I think because of the fear and because she would be out there and because she knew they were going to rein her in and do everything they could to weaken her. It really was Julissa that really empowered Kyra to do it. And then I think because they stepped up and the community stepped up. That's what made Kyra do that. But without fair Michigan you would not have seen Kyra on that stand. Definitely not. And you would have seen us there either. Honestly.

JANIE: Now this year is different because this year the community has seeing that the system is working for them. And now they are becoming more vocal and supporting each other when they come forward. There's safety in numbers right. So if you hurt trans women of colour now they know the police are coming. The prosecutor is coming and these defendants are going to know now that the community is coming. So when you have support like that it deters further victimizing these victims and witnesses by torturing them, firebombing their house, making a frighten, shooting at them. When you have the community circling around them it makes a lot harder for people to intimidate them. So in three years we have a 100 percent conviction rate.

HARAN: The fact that we have a 100 percent conviction rate speaks in itself on what it's been doing for the community. The fact that they feel comfortable enough to come forward now and report and have conversations with Jamie before I literally would have to be there and now they're comfortable enough in me saying well no if you come here you go to this police station and ask for this sergeant or this detective you're going to be fine and you're going to be treated with respect the fact that when I started in 2016 I was reaching out to and nestle in order to have the position that I'm in. Now she's the attorney general and we have a new president for privacy and so it's just amazing. And I think that as a whole it's just amazing what we've been able to accomplish. I think with any demographic or community it always gets better. I feel like a long time ago we were having that conversation with gay individuals and there wasn't even a LGBT. Back then it was just homosexuals and gay and lesbians and they weren't even accepted. So my hope is that a year from now two years from now we won't even be having this such topic conversation on transgender or just being normal and will understand it's just another layer a part of our community. So as much as I'm overwhelmed and tired I think I cannot say no. If my phone rings I'm helping you.

PRODUCER: The jury trial for Albert Weathers is scheduled for August 2019. As of May 2019. Michigan still doesn't have official protections or hate crime laws that apply to LGBTQ people. The Justice Project has tried 24 cases in the last three years. They still have a 100 percent conviction rate.

MW: That's the final episode of the CBC podcast Uncover: The Village. This summer we'll be featuring the best of CBC podcasts. Next week Uncover: Escaping Nexium a fascinating look into a so-called help self-help group that turns out to be a sex cult. Its leader Keith Raniere was convicted last month of sex trafficking and other offences. That's our program for today. Stay tuned to Radio One for Q. You may know Kiefer Sutherland as Jack Bauer in 24 or as the president of the United States and designated survivor. And you likely know he's the son of Canadian actor Shirley Douglas and Donald Sutherland and the grandson of the late Canadian politician Tommy Douglas. But you might not know that he moonlights as a country music performer. Ahead of the Calgary Stampede Kiefer Sutherland talks about his country music career, his time spent roping in a real rodeo and why he decided to speak out when Ontario premier Doug Ford invoked the name of his grandfather. He's on Q which is up next. I'm Megan Williams. This is my last show this summer. Thanks to the terrific team of producers and techs who made it such a pleasure. Katie Simpson will be in the chair next week. Thanks for listening to the summer edition of The Current and have a great weekend.

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