New podcast reveals the truth of intimate partner violence through fiction

What do you see when you think of domestic violence?

When people talk about domestic abuse or intimate partner violence (IPV), what comes to mind for many is a physically aggressive man and a battered woman. This well-established heterosexual archetype is reflected in stock images used in articles on domestic violence, often featuring a man with a closed fist or a woman with bruises.

Beyond this stereotypical portray of IPV, what is rarely discussed is that abuse is not always physical, and victims are not always heterosexual women.

In CBC Podcast's latest audio fiction series Asking For It, heroine Goldie is a queer woman who thinks she's found the perfect partner—until they begin to abuse her. Goldie's journey in this immersive podcast is fictional, but the experiences are based on the real stories of both survivors and perpetrators. 

Producer Kaitlin Prest and writer/director Drew Denny spoke with CBC Podcasts about the making of Asking For It. Here is part of that conversation.

Is intimate partner violence a well-known experience in the LGBTQ community? Why do we have so little information about queer people who go through this?

DD: A 2010 CDC study revealed that 75% of self-identified bisexual women, 46% of lesbian women and 43% of straight women report experiencing intimate partner violence, while 47% of bisexual men, 40% of gay men and 21% of straight men report incidences of intimate partner abuse in their lives. Violence within LGBTQ populations is often misreported by law enforcement, but even these numbers are enough to know that IPV happens at disproportionately high rates in our community. Yet it's vastly underrepresented.

I think representing our shadows is actually an act of hope, because it means you believe people care and that we can get better.- Drew Denny

There are some very basic barriers: if you're not out, you can't report the abuse occurring within your same-sex relationship. Studies demonstrate how our higher incidence of abuse is related to internalized homophobia. Raised in homophobic society, queer perpetrators of abuse sometimes hurt their partners as partners are visible, external evidence of the queerness for which they have been bullied, ostracized, or tortured. Some say we keep it secret because we want to protect our own; we have to fight so hard just to access the same rights, so we can't afford to show any flaws or vulnerabilities lest we be proven undeserving. 

Though I know some feminists and queer folks are going to be upset with me for representing this upsetting phenomenon within our communities, I think representing our shadows is actually an act of hope, because it means you believe people care and that we can get better. 

What kind of research did you do to get into the mindset of a victim of intimate partner violence, and the mindset of an abusive partner?

DD: A friend shared with me the syllabus for a class on domestic violence within LGBTQ populations. I also worked with a counselor in the LGBT Domestic Violence program at the LA LGBT Center, one of the only programs of its kind in the world. I studied all the resources I could find and interviewed people about their experiences: people who identify as victims, as survivors, as perpetrators and as former perpetrators. 

It was easier to get into the mindset of the survivor, and for that I drew from my real life experience. My heart is with victims and survivors, and if they are the only ones who listen and if they feel seen, or feel a sense of community, then all this work is worth it. 

But it felt important to represent the abuser in a multi-dimensional manner as well. This is not to justify or diminish the impact of their abusive behaviour. Rather, my hope is to reach listeners who might hear themselves in the abuser— to be a small voice in their ear that tells them they are also not alone, and that there are people who know how to work with them. It could help start a conversation that could change people's lives for the better.

KP: For me, as someone who seems to have a "trauma beat" in the work I do, I'm always absorbing stories from people around me about assault, abuse, and different kinds of violence. I try to map out the more invisible and intangible psychological webs of abuse and trauma. I've been doing personal investigation into abusive dynamics within my own family, immediate and extended, as well as paying close attention to the ways that those dynamics shaped me and the people I love, the ways those dynamics repeat in my romantic relationships and other intimate relationships. 

In terms of the character Coach, who was a result of Drew's writing and my improvising, I tried to take things I have felt but never really acted upon: jealousy, possessiveness, co-dependency, compulsion, the desire to control the behaviour of your partner, manipulating what your partner knows about your fidelity, and turned the dial up by 10.

How does the series push against the stereotypical portrayal of domestic/intimate partner abuse?

KP: Abuse is often portrayed in the media as clear cut and physically violent. A woman with a black eye wearing dark sunglasses and a turtle neck. A woman screaming in her house while her partner chases her. Abusers are usually one-dimensional: they are the villain (Perry Wright). Or they are a sexy brooding villain (Stanley Kowalski). 

Drew and I set out to tell the more nuanced version of the story: abuse that doesn't leave a mark. Violence that fills a room and creates trauma, but doesn't put you in a hospital. Emotional manipulation. We also worked hard to show that the abusers are hurt people, that they have loveable qualities, because this cycle of affection and violence is one of the most traumatizing parts of being in an abusive relationship.

A psychologist explained it to me using a metaphor of a dog that gets kicked. The dog that gets kicked by its owner every time the owner walks by develops a strong defence mechanism to protect itself. It can create a map of the world where it knows where danger is and how to avoid it. But if the dog gets kicked sometimes and snuggled other times, it never knows what's coming, and therefore is constantly on edge. Its source of love is also a source of danger.

Drew and I set out to tell the more nuanced version of the story: abuse that doesn't leave a mark. Violence that fills a room and creates trauma, but doesn't put you in a hospital. Emotional manipulation.- Kaitlin Prest

Goldie comes from a chaotic family, finds love and soon realizes that the relationships are dysfunctional. Why was it important to you to illustrate this pattern?  

DD: We look for people who love us in a way that feels familiar, people who speak our language and who feel like home. But if your home was a place you had to run away from, if the first language you learned was one of instability and violence—that pattern is dangerous and unsustainable. 

The show is titled "Asking For It" because I wanted to subvert the notion that people who are mistreated somehow bring it on themselves. However, I also want to acknowledge that we all have our patterns—if asking for what you're used to is dangerous, how do you learn to ask for what you really need? You might not have the tools alone to override these patterns, but there are therapy groups, counselors, shelters... people who have tools to help you through the process. 

We look for people who love us in a way that feels familiar, people who speak our language and who feel like home. But if your home was a place you had to run away from, if the first language you learned was one of instability and violence—that pattern is dangerous and unsustainable.- Drew Denny

Kaitlin, like your last audio fiction series The Shadows, Asking For It takes listeners to pretty intimate places. Why is it important to you to portray sex with such realism and detail in the podcast?

KP: I think it's a hangover from when I made the show Audio Smut. It was a sex positive show that sought to de-stigmatize honest representations of sexuality. During that time, I was so passionate about the importance of telling the truth about this major part of our lives. If doc-makers don't document sexuality, then the only representations we experience are the ones we see in porn. And while there is feminist porn out there, porn does not set out to tell the truth of sexuality. 

I've always seen sexual dynamics as a sort of magnifying glass for power dynamics, social inequalities, issues around gender, class, race, and ability. Not "fading to black" when the sex happens became a central tenet of my artistic values. It was political to me. And even though I have moved on to doing other things with different goals, I suppose it has become a part of how I make work.

How did you use technology to help tell the story of the relationships in the podcast?

DD: I felt it was important to represent how technology is used by abusers. Cell phones allow not only for constant communication but for location tracking and for real time sharing of photos, videos and audio recordings, all of which can be useful and fun for many people but can also be used as tools to perpetrate abuse. In Asking For It, Coach and Taylor both utilize technology to control Goldie, to monitor her whereabouts, to pressure her to provide evidence that she is alone or that she's home, that she's telling the truth in the face of their unfounded accusations. 

It's unnerving how technology can be weaponized by perpetrators, and how invisible it can be to bystanders. You could think your friend is just sending a quick text or a flirty photo, but you're actually watching your loved one be abused. 

Kaitlin, last year, you created Mermaid Palace, an audio and art company. Why is Asking For It a series that you wanted to create under MP?

KP: I had wanted to do a story on intimate partner violence ever since I did the Silent Evidence project, but I knew I could only work with someone who was a storytelling professional, because I don't believe in doing this type of work within a steep power dynamic of "documentarian/subject." My approach is to support someone to tell their own story, about their own experience, and to tell my own stories about my own experience.

Drew's idea for Asking For It so perfectly dovetails with my artistic trajectory and what I think good art is. I also had an art crush on her and thought she was the coolest, best artist I'd ever met. 

In terms of the company, this is exactly the type of show the company was invented to produce. It's about an important queer/feminist issue, cinematic and narratively gripping, something that is sonically exquisite. MP was created to support artists who don't often get to be their full selves in their chosen industries and carving out an artistic space that feels true to them and their voice. 

Please take care while listening to Asking For It. If you are a victim/survivor of domestic violence, if you are hurting someone, or if you are the friend of someone who is in an abusive relationship—reach out to victim service centres in your region or take a look at the LA LGBT Center's resources for intimate partner violence. If you are in immediate danger or fear for your safety, please call 911.

Q&A edited for length and clarity. Produced by Judy Ziyi Gu.