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Front Burner Transcript for May 31

Host: Jamie Poisson

JODIE MARTINSON: Hi, I'm Jodie Martinson. So imagine you're sailing in a yacht off the coast of Spain. And as you gaze into the water, you see a pod of orca whales swim right up to your boat. But then you hear this?

SOUNDCLIP

UNNAMED: Yeah, like all. (boat shaking)

JODIE MARTINSON: The orcas are ramming the ship. There's so powerful that they break the rudder and even pierce the hull, causing water to stream inside the boat. When that happened to these four sailors last week, Spain had to send a helicopter and rescue boat to bring their yacht to dock. But for three other boats near Spain, Portugal and Morocco last year, the Orca's actually capsized them. Researchers are mostly undecided about why these ramming are happening. But the Internet is joking that the killer whales are taking revenge like they did in a seventies horror movie.

SOUNDCLIP

MOVIE AD: The ancient Romans called him Orca Orchina, Latin or Bringer of Death. He is, without challenge, the most powerful animal on the globe, the killer whale. Orca has 48...

JODIE MARTINSON: If that sounds like a bit of a psychological projection, it's probably because humans have a lot to feel guilty for when it comes to orcas. So today I'm talking to Peter Ross. He's senior scientist and director of the Healthy Waters Program at the Rain Coast Conservation Foundation. We're talking about the orcas ramming boats near Europe, but also the health of orcas we know the most about. And those near me in Vancouver, the Southern resident killer whales. Hi, Peter.

PETER ROSS: Hi, Jodie.

JODIE MARTINSON: So these orcas near Europe that are getting all this attention all of a sudden. What have they been doing to passing ships?

PETER ROSS: Well, it's been a number of years, if not decades. We've heard these reports, complaints perhaps from mariners in around Gibraltar after being harassed by killer whales.

JODIE MARTINSON: And in some cases, they're doing it for, you know, periods of up to an hour. And some of the boats are thinking. Is that a behavior that you've ever seen before?

PETER ROSS: Well, I think if we think back to some of the cartoons and or movies from the 1960s and seventies, one might sort of look at killer whales and agree that they represent a significant menace.

SOUNDCLIP

MOVIE AD: From the depths of the sea. To the top of the world. It's got to be a fair fight on equal terms. A fight to the death? None. Between the two most dangerous animals on earth. Man and Orca.

PETER ROSS: And certainly the the reports from the coast of Spain would indicate this is something to be concerned about. You know, from my perspective, though, I would say that, you know, if killers were intent on harm, they'd be able to do significantly more damage. So I'm kind of leaning towards the thinking that these whales are curious. They're intelligent. They're social. We've got lots of boats in the area. Maybe the boats are a nuisance, maybe they're noisy or disturbing the animals. But on the other side of the coin, maybe these whales are simply trying to interact with mariners and trying to play, if you will, with these vessels.

SOUNDCLIP

SAILOR 1: Banging on our (banging)

SAILOR 2: Maybe he'd just be playing with us. Pretty sure they're going to damage the boat.

JODIE MARTINSON: So what makes you think that they are playing and not attacking the boats?

PETER ROSS: Well, we don't have a lot of the history of killer whales harming people or vessels. In fact, I don't think there's a single report in the history of humankind of a killer whale in the wild harming a human being. So, you know, when we think of killer whales as one of the most widely distributed animals on the planet, you can basically find them in Arctic waters, Antarctic waters, the Atlantic, the Pacific. We don't get these reports from those other populations. So it feels a little bit like a culturally isolated incident associated with a small group of whales. You know, I think when we see the video images, I'd have to say that it doesn't look like they're really trying to sink the vessel.

JODIE MARTINSON: There is. And to that note, there is a matriarch named White Gladys that's been involved in some of the attacks. And there's even one ship captain who describes her as sort of teaching the other younger whales that she was with. Some of the researchers believe that she has had traumatizing experiences with boats in the past.

SOUNDCLIP

REPORTER: Marine scientists in Spain studying the phenomenon and now suggesting it could be a response to trauma. A kind of killer whale revenge for pain suffered from a collision with a boat or getting wounded by commercial fishing lines.

MARINE SCIENTIST: Every day we are thinking more and more in one of our hypothesis studies that one orcas often a female orca, and she only wanted to stop this boat. And right now these behavior is just is spreading.

REPORTER: Researchers have named that female orca, Gladys Blanca.

JODIE MARTINSON: So what would you need to see from from her and from the whales around her that would convince you that it's less this sort of playful behavior and more of an attack sort of motivated by a traumatizing experience in the past?

PETER ROSS: Well, on the one hand, I'm not the expert in animal behavior, but I do know from my own work with killer whales here in the northeastern Pacific that these are highly intelligent and very social creatures. These are animals that interact. They're animals that learn. They live to be decades old. We had Granny in our waters that was thought to have lived to approximately 100 years old. So they've got a lifetime of memory and learning and experience. And if we think of other mammals whereby we've got an errant individual, it wouldn't be surprising to think that an animal can go a little bit rogue. We've seen it with elephants, We've seen it with black bears. We've seen it with grizzly bears. This is the stuff of the wild. We can't control the behavior of individuals. And I think we would be foolish to think that all elements of Mother Nature are innocent and friendly and cuddly and all the rest. So given, you know, what I've seen here on the coast of British Columbia in Washington State, these are large marine mammals. They have obviously sharp teeth. If they want to harm a vessel, a human, they certainly have it within their physical toolbox.

JODIE MARTINSON: So you've seen all the headlines. People are really captivated by the narrative that the orcas are taking revenge or might be taking revenge on humans In that case. And I hear you. You have your doubts. I'm also thinking about the second Avatar movie. And it was a huge commercial success. Had a whale like creature, that sort revenge.

SOUNDCLIP

AVATAR CLIP: You're so good. You saved my life. Thank you. Thank you.

JODIE MARTINSON: So is this compelling idea. And we've seen people project very human emotions on orcas before.

SOUNDCLIP

MOVIE CLIP £7,000 of jaws, powerful enough to cause bone splitting, gets into moves. They're giving us space to bother him. Won't bother you. You understand?

MOVIE CLIP 2: You saved my life.

JODIE MARTINSON: What is it about this animal and their behavior that makes us really see ourselves in them?

PETER ROSS: It's interesting that you you ask that because in some ways, I think we're looking at a mirror. We're looking at a very intelligent, long lived creature with with basically large habitat needs. They travel. They socialize. They have their homes and their families. And so when we see killer whales, whether it's losing a calf that dies, either is stillborn or dies later or it's hit by a vessel. We've learned to feel their pain.

SOUNDCLIP

MARINE SCIENTIST: Well, a newborn is always cause for celebration. This birth is special. The mother orca is J 35. In 2018, people around the world were moved by her apparent act of mourning. She carried her dead calf for 17 days, 1600 kilometers, before finally letting go.

PETER ROSS: You know, it's only 50 or 60 years ago that we kind of looked at killer whales as villains. The Fisheries Department in the late 1950s in Canada mounted a 50 caliber machine gun in Seymour Narrows between the mainland and Vancouver Island to get rid of these vermin that were threatening our salmon stocks and the safety of mariners. So I think the science has grown on the public imagination in the sense that we understand killer whales in our coastal waters probably better than any other marine mammal population on the planet. And so I think there's been an awakening of the value and the role of these beautiful animals in the natural world. And certainly indigenous communities have long valued and respected killer whales. So think killer whales have achieved a little bit of a superstar status for us in Canada and the states and around the world.

JODIE MARTINSON: I think for me and maybe for other people. One of the reasons these stories coming out of Spain about the whales attacking boats are so compelling is because it seems like whales actually have a lot to be mad at us about. So let's talk for a while about what humans have done to orcas and to the orca habitat. And I want to focus on the type that we study the most. The ones that you and I can both think of as our neighbors here on the south coast of B.C., the Southern resident killer whales. How many of them are even left right now?

PETER ROSS: Well, I think the most recent estimate is 74 individuals. So we don't have a lot of whales. And when one thinks that there are approximately 8 million human beings in the Salish Sea watershed, which is right adjacent to their critical habitat, one can imagine that the footprint of 100,000 people per whale can be heavy at times.

JODIE MARTINSON: Okay. And let's spend a bit more time. You began to talk about some of the threats they face. You were involved in a study that really identified one of those threats, which is the pollution in the waters that they live in. What did your research find about how the pollution was impacting them?

PETER ROSS: Well, we've done a lot of research since our first paper was published 22 years ago. That study showed that our Southern resident killer whales and our biggest killer whales, the marine mammal eaters, were the two most PCB contaminated marine mammals on the planet. So bit of a shocker to me, a bit of a shocker to many of my colleagues in other parts of North America and Europe.

JODIE MARTINSON: What are and before we move on from that, what what are PCBs?

PETER ROSS: Well, PCBs, we don't hear about them quite so much today because Canada banned them in 1976. PCBs were a heavy heat resistant transformer oil. They were used very widely in in hydroelectric transformers, those buckets on hydro poles. The problem with that chemical, the chemical is persistent. It's oily, It doesn't break down. And it turns out it's an endocrine disrupting compound. It's a hormone mimic, which means it interferes with all sorts of processes. And it's been associated with a number of significant health effects in humans, in seabirds and in marine mammals around the world.

JODIE MARTINSON: And I would imagine that all that pollution in the water is also hurting the fish that the orcas need to eat. What are the reasons why their favorite food, Chinook salmon, has been so hard for them to find?

PETER ROSS: Well, and that's a question that many, many colleagues of mine and others are looking into these days. But certainly climate change has been looming large on a cold water fish that needs cold streams to get back to to reproduce. Historically, overharvesting just too much fishing commercially back in the early 20th century. And of course, land use what we're doing on land in their watersheds, in the riparian zone that is that zone right along the river's edge. What are we doing there? Rebuilding houses, factories? Are we farming, cutting down trees? There have been a lot of very significant ecosystem changes to the freshwater habitat of Chinook salmon. And all of these things ultimately degrade the viability of salmon stocks and contribute to lesser production of salmon, which means a much depleted food supply for our children's.

JODIE MARTINSON: Let's zoom out and talk about why all of this matters in the bigger picture environmentally. If these are apex predators that are just incredible adaptable, hunters can't survive off the West Coast, what does that tell us more broadly about the state of the oceans?

PETER ROSS: Well, I think that our killer whales are essentially trying to tell us something about the state of the Pacific Ocean. They're clearly linked to the local waters around the Salish Sea where they can they can fish, meet their mates, they can communicate, reproduce, and yet they're reliant on fish being born, if you will, in freshwater streams and rivers well inland in the sea and even towards the border with Alberta. So some of these stocks will migrate hundreds and hundreds of kilometers. And on the westward side, our killer whales are reliant on the open Pacific Ocean because the open Pacific is where Chinook will feed and grow before their return as adult fish between four and seven years of age. So killer whales, even though we think of them as kind of our local cetaceans, our local marine mammals, are very much telling us something about the Pacific Ocean as well as coastal North America. They're really telling us something about an ocean ecosystem that is at risk from all of these threats.

JODIE MARTINSON: And I hate to even ask this question, but I think we have to. Is there a risk that these orcas will go extinct on our watch?

PETER ROSS: There are colleagues that have modeled different scenarios looking into the future and models can behave well or not so well. But the models would suggest that there is a high risk of extinction this century if we don't get our act together.

JODIE MARTINSON: And how do we get our act together?

PETER ROSS: Well, unfortunately, getting our act together to me means we have to step back from the whales. We have to step back in terms of noise and disturbance. And that means we've got to disturb them less and produce less noise in their environment so they can echolocate, they can find their fish, they can find their their companions, their mates. We've got to step back in terms of pollution. We've got to look at the chemicals that we've got on America and that number somewhere in the neighborhood of 250,000. We've got a thousand new chemicals every single year. We've got to understand that there's potential on that list of chemicals that might harm whales. So we got to step back. We got to pull back. We've got to ensure that water quality is improved not only for the whales, but really for their food, for the salmon, because it's the salmon that deliver those contaminants to the whales. And we've got to step back in terms of ensuring that they've got adequate numbers of Chinook salmon to eat. And there are many good colleagues of mine that are looking at that, trying to figure out how to ensure that our southern residents have access to the balance of salmon so that they don't show up hungry, emaciated, starving and more vulnerable to disease. So on all three fronts, we have to pull back and acknowledge what we know and take the precautionary approach to natural resource management.

JODIE MARTINSON: Earlier, you said that the orcas are sort of like a mirror to ourselves, sort of reflecting back to us. A lot of what makes us human. So what does it say about us if we let them disappear?

PETER ROSS: It would be easy for us to let them disappear. We would simply keep going down. The current trajectory of population growth and industrialization and intensive agroforestry operations. Easy to do. The tough thing to do is to try to work together as a team on all fronts, to try to reduce the impacts associated with these major threats. Killer whales live to be 80 or 90 years of age. Females start having their calves around 15 years of age. They reach menopause and stop reproducing at the age of 40 or 45 years of age. These are animals that really resemble sort of the human biology, if I if I can put it that way. They live the same length of time. They are slow reproduce or they only have a baby every three and a half to five years. And so when I look at killer whales, I think we've we've grown to acknowledge the similarities between us and them. But the big difference and that is that they live in the water. And we don't sense that they're the ones that are exposed to a lot of the injuries and one of the threats that we bestow upon them because of our our lack of understanding of what happens under the surface of the water if we lose these whales, well, we've lost a distinct species or subspecies or something of biological significance. We leave the crown on top of our local ecosystem off the table. It disappears. What happens to the food web when a killer whale population disappears? I don't know. Predators have a very important role to play in ecosystems by weeding out the weaker individuals in their prey. Salmon wouldn't be strong and muscular and fast if they didn't have killer whales and other predators targeting them for food. So we lose killer whales. We don't only lose something that could be potentially a catastrophe from an ecosystem perspective, but I think we lose something of ourselves as well. These are animals. We love their animals. We understand they're animals that continue to surprise us in weird and wonderful ways.

JODIE MARTINSON: And what about you, Peter? How how would you feel if you had to sit here and watch them slowly die away?

PETER ROSS: I've been working with marine mammals for 40, 35 or 40 years now, and I've worked to try to document using the best available science the threats to those marine mammals. Killer whales. If the southern residents disappeared, it would be a profound failure of my ability to deliver science in lockstep with the science of other excellent conservation scientists.

JODIE MARTINSON: It would feel like a failure.

PETER ROSS: I'd have to say that losing the southern residence would would be a body blow to someone like me who has worked long and hard trying to deliver hard truths, using the best available science and technology to decisionmakers at every level of government and those in the private sector as well. It would, yeah, it would spell a dark day for me.

JODIE MARTINSON: Peter, thank you so much for for talking about it with us today.

PETER ROSS: You're welcome.

JODIE MARTINSON: That's all for today. Front Burner will be back in your feed tomorrow morning.

Are the killer whales fighting back?- Transcript

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