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The AIH Transcript for January 24, 2025

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NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Towns' council. With Donald Trump's trade threat looming, the mayor of Windsor, Ontario, says his counterparts in border cities from coast to coast have formed an alliance to deal with the fallout together.

CH: Feeling unsettled in the place where he settled. Our guest explains why European countries should let him and other Syrian refugees visit their homeland without being forced to give up their protected status.

NK: Nothing to sphere but sphere itself. A new wave of mysterious and frankly, gross balls wash up in Australia, closing several major beaches. And now scientists know exactly what they're made of, just not where they came from.

CH: A blessing and a cursive. D.C.'s National Archives need help transcribing some 18th century documents. So they're appealing to anyone who still knows how to read cursive handwriting.

NK: Goop dynamics. When Gwyneth Paltrow was sued for a collision on a ski hill, two people and maybe only two people thought the story would make a great stage show. Tonight, they'll tell us about their new musical, "Gwyneth Goes Skiing".

CH: And caught holding the bags. A Portuguese politician is accused of stealing a bunch of strangers luggage from the airport and police are investigating it on a case by case basis. As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that thinks there's a lot to unpack here.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Border Mayors, Call For Cursive Readers, Gwyneth Goes Skiing, Portuguese Suitcase Politician

Border Mayors

Guest: Drew Dilken

CH: Mayors from Canadian border cities are joining forces in the face of Donald Trump's tariff talk. They formed what they're calling a Border Mayors Alliance. It's their way of responding to the U.S. president's threat to impose a 25 per cent tax on Canadian imports, a tax that could be in place as soon as February 1st. The group says 20 mayors have signed up already with plenty more ready to join. Drew Dilken is the mayor of Windsor, Ontario and the chair of the Border Mayors Alliance. We reached him in Windsor.

NK: Mayor Dilken, how do you hope this alliance will help you fight the concerns about these potential tariffs? What will this alliance achieve, in your view?

DREW DILKEN: Well, we're taking a Canada first approach here. And all of the mayors that are part of this Border Mayors Alliance are united. And we are not divided. We want to see a solution here. We want to be part of that solution because we understand the risks are quite consequential. And so we know at the federal level there's going to be a change at the top and there's a leadership race. Provincially, we know there's not unity amongst all of the provinces in the conversation, but people are working together and premiers are talking to governors, which are, which is a good thing. And at the mayors level, we know that especially border city mayors, we are going to be hit first. We are going to be hit the hardest. And it's going to be quite consequential for our communities. And so we're coming together to form this alliance to be able to link arms together across Canada in a unified way, but also to be able to reach out to our contacts on the other side of the border. So in my case, the mayor of Detroit, to be able to engage them and activate them as appropriate, because we know that any tariffs that are put in place by Donald Trump are going to be, have really bad impacts in Canada, but also for people who live in the United States.

NK: How is your relationship with the mayor of Detroit before all of this?

DD: Good relationship and Mayor Duggan has been in office for the better part of ten years and he's not seeking re-election. But we've had a lot of communication over the years, dealt with some thorny issues, whether it's the freedom convoy or the closure of the border and getting nurses across and then all sorts of things that come up each and every day. And so we have a good relationship, feel very comfortable reaching out to him. And, you know, like me, he understands the Motor City and how that drives his economy and understands what the impact would be of a 25 per cent tariff. You know, we know down here that there aren't cars just made in Windsor or cars made in Detroit. The parts that go into those cars, whether it's in Windsor or Detroit, they cross the border on average of 6 to 7 times before they roll off the finish line. And so they truly are vehicles that are made by hands, by men and women in both countries. And we know that so acutely down here in Windsor/ Detroit. And there are many stories like that across our country, which is all about bringing these border mayors together to share those stories.

NK: At last count, 20 mayors had signed on to this alliance. Which other cities have joined you?

DD: Well, I can tell you all the way from Surrey, B.C., Mayor Brenda Locke. So that's our far west partner, all the way out to New Brunswick with many stops in between. Several, many in Ontario have joined. We've got Regina. And like I say, I think three more joined today. And so as the word gets out, I'm sure there'll be more folks interested in putting their voice to this chorus because we all are going to feel the impacts of this type of tariff and we're going to feel at first, we're going to feel it hardest, and we need to make sure that we're all working in unison. Canada First, let's find a resolution here, and we're willing to be part of that solution in terms of any dialog or any work that we have to do to help get to the other side of this problem.

NK: There's lots of different businesses, lots of different industries in all of those cities that you're talking about. But ultimately, is it the uncertainty that you mentioned a moment ago that is weighing most on your counterparts elsewhere as well?

DD: Sure. And I think, you know, we're all, we all read the newspaper and listen to the news. And, you know, day one, when President Trump was inaugurated, it was here's the executive order. April 1st is the deadline for his secretaries to report back on basically trade imperfections and counterfeit goods and currency manipulation. But we don't really, we're not really part of that problem in Canada. And if we are, I think if you ask any sensible person, they would say, well, we want to resolve that, too. We don't want to; we don't want those things happening in our country. And so that was first thing in the morning and by 9:00 at night, it was we're going to put the tariffs on Canada February the 1st. You know, so the game had changed twice within the same day. And so it really is about the uncertainty. Let's figure out what the end goal here of the United States is, if it's about border security and the flow of drugs. Guess what? We have a shared goal in wanting to resolve those issues and make sure we're not contributing in any negative way to the flow of drugs or illegal migrants. We can work that out quite sensibly. If it's about renegotiating NAFTA early. No problem. Let's sit down. Let's turn the pages and figure out what we'd like to change. And how we can create a new agreement that will provide the certainty and set is forward. If it's about something else, if it's just about punishing people. I'm not sure that we're going to figure out how to navigate through that. But ultimately, I know Canadians to be resilient. Certainly the people in my community are resilient and we're going to fight like heck to make sure that we get to the other side in the most practical way possible. And you know what it's going to mean retaliatory tariffs. It's going to mean some pain here in my community and for the communities across our country, especially in those border city mayor communities. And we're going to have to figure it out. But let's just hope we don't get there. We want to do everything we can ahead of any tariff coming into place to say let's get the message out so that the smart people who are making these decisions understand what the ramifications would be.

NK: And Mayor Dilken, you know, when you talk about pain and impact, how would you illustrate that to a listener who is hearing about your concerns, for example, for the first time, what example would you give them from what you've heard and seen in your community?

DD: Yeah, I think, again, if it's 25 per cent tariffs, I think that the consequence could be quite catastrophic and it would be almost immediate and certainly on the price of a vehicle. You know, the estimate is it could go up four thousand dollars for the price of any vehicle. And so, I mean, that's bad for my community. That's bad for consumers, whether they live in Canada or the United States, because that's just a huge increase cost at a time when we already have affordability challenges and are trying to deal with the inflationary impacts. And it would it ultimately means is you're just going to have job loss. There is going to be job loss on both sides of the border. They're going to be people going home because guess what? Car makers aren't going to make cars unless people are buying them and people are going to wait. And I spend four thousand dollars more on a vehicle. They're going to want the certainty to know, you know, what situation they're getting into. Much like we've seen people on the sidelines in the real estate market waiting for interest rates to come down.

NK: Mayor Dilken, thank you for your time.

DD: My pleasure.

CH: Drew Dilken is the mayor of Windsor, Ontario. We reached him in Windsor.

[Music: instrumental]

Call For Cursive Readers

Guest: Nancy Sullivan

CH: There was a time when we wrote everything in flowing cursive for homework, our novels, our computer programs. But nowadays we type everything on our computers or our phobias. Sorry. That was supposed to say our phones. I typed it on my phone. And it's not just writing in cursive that's become a rare art. Reading in cursive is too. People at the National Archives in the U.S. are calling for citizen volunteers who are fluent in reading cursive to help transcribe a raft of handwritten texts from the American Revolutionary War era. Nancy Sullivan is a community manager with the National Archives catalog. We reached her in Glenside, Pennsylvania.

NK: Nancy, I didn't realize cursive readers were becoming such a rarity. Was this a surprise to you?

NANCY SULLIVAN: Well, a little bit. We've had this transcription program going for about 10 years, but we start, a year and a half ago we started this large project to transcribe the pension records from the American Revolution. And whenever I would tell anyone in my private life about this project because I'm really excited about it and so I talk about it a lot, they would say, well, that's great for schools. You should, you should contact some schools about it. And they'd say, well, they're in cursive. And immediately people would see the problem there. You have to kind of be over 40, not just have learned cursive, but really have used it and really be able to decipher sometimes poor, poorly written cursive.

NK: Right. Besides the ability to read cursive, though, you're looking for citizen archivists. What else do they need to have to be great at that?

NS: Well, it does take some technical skill. You need a computer. You need to be comfortable using a computer and typing. But most important, it takes enthusiasm. I think it's a particular type of personality that just loves history, loves puzzles a little bit because some of the cursive is poor and you have to decipher words sometimes and look for clues as to what the word might be. And it takes some patience because while these pension records, they can be fascinating because the veterans recount their experiences during the war on some of the pages. Other pages are just sort of legal documents or letters saying, please read my letter from this date, you know, that sort of thing. Some of them are not the most interesting, but we want them all to be transcribed. So it takes enthusiasm and some patience.

NK: And that detective, investigative instinct, it sounds like. I'm glad you mentioned that. Sometimes it's difficult to read because I was looking at a couple of photographs of these documents. And even if you're very proficient in cursive writing and reading cursive writing, you know, over the years, certain letters, how they're written changes. It's messy in some cases it's difficult to read because of the degradation of the documents. Right. So there's some hiccups along the way.

NS: Absolutely. And what you're looking at in the catalog is actually images taken from microfilm. The original records were microfilmed in the 1970s. And rather than take them all out again and handle them and put them through scanning for preservation reasons, we scanned the microfilm. So you're looking at a photograph, a 50 year old photograph of a 200 year old piece of paper. And you're right, the long 'S' that we see in old documents is present throughout these. They also use legal words that sometimes trip people up, words like aforesaid and thereunto. And then it helps to have a little bit of knowledge, I think, of the American Revolution sometimes because there are proper names and place names that people don't always get.

NK: Is they're part of a document that's been transcribed already that that unlocked something for you.

NS: There have been so many I mean, I've read thousands of these now, and it's rare to read more than, get through more than a couple without finding something really cool. One guy, his name is Anthony Gilman. He described himself as a man of colour in his testimony. He was, seems to have been a free Black man who enlisted as a fifer, and he was captured by the British who then sold him into slavery. He remained enslaved for one and a half years, and then he escaped and immediately just re-enlisted again and joined up again, taking that chance, you know, because he believed in the cause, I guess.

NK: People are often, when there are big projects like this quick and perhaps understandably to turn to technology to help them do this work. Was that a consideration or is for you, is it for you and the team critical that human beings are doing this work?

NS: Well, it's a little bit of both. So using artificial intelligence for access is actually part of our strategic plan at the National Archives. And so we partnered with a company called FamilySearch who developed an AI tool that could read handwriting. And the earliest transcriptions, the first 30 thousand transcriptions that we had, were actually used to teach the AI how to read this sort of historical handwriting. They then used that to extract the text from the other 2.5 million pages. And so we have that machine generated text in our catalog. But if you were to go to our catalog and look at it right away, you will see problems. It's just not that great at reading handwriting. It's not always very clear. They're photographs of documents. There's bleed through from the other side. There's inkblots. There's marks where things were folded. There's stamps in weird places sometimes and seals. All of that confuses computers but makes perfect sense to humans. And so it's sort of both. We're using the technology, but we don't consider a record transcribed until a human has looked at it. So we really, really need people to have eyes on all of this.

NK: You've already given some clues as to why this project excites you so much. But what ultimately, you know, when you think of the finished product or products at the end of this, a lot of work still to be done, obviously. What's your dream?

NS: Well, we say when you transcribe, you help to unlock history. And this is a partnership with the National Park Service. So they actually have several of the battlefields from the American Revolution. And part of the idea is that the park rangers at those battlefields will be able to take stories directly from these records and use them as they interpret the battlefields. So a story that one of our volunteers transcribes could wind up being used on a tour of the battlefield. They can say things like, you know, Josiah Smith said he was stationed over here by this fence and things like that and really, really bring it to life to people. Making these records accessible is very important to us at the National Archives. Opening up the history of the everyday person who was fighting in the revolution it's very important to us and we think by transcribing, we can bring these records to more and more people.

NK: A pleasure speaking with you, Nancy. Thank you.

NS: Thank you very much.

CH: Nancy Sullivan is a community manager with the National Archives catalog. We reached her in Glenside, Pennsylvania.

[Music: Upbeat instrumental]

Gwyneth Goes Skiing

Guests: Linus Karp and Joseph Martin

CH: It was the trial of the century, or at the very least, a trial of a century. It all began with a collision between optometrist Terry Sanderson and Gwyneth Paltrow on a Utah ski hill in 2016. The eye doctor then sued the movie star for over 3 million dollars, alleging he'd been permanently injured. The actor countersued, asking for the repayment of her legal fees and one dollar in damages because the crash caused her to miss half a day of skiing. Ms. Paltrow emerged victorious, and now their dramatic courtroom battle has become a musical entitled "Gwyneth Go Skiing".

SOUNDCLIP

Music from the musical "Gwyneth Goes Skiing".

CH: The show made its off-Broadway debut this week. Linus Karp and Joseph Martin are the co-creators and the stars of "Gwyneth Goes Skiing". They play the two famous litigants. We reached them in New York City.

NK: Linus, you're already getting the New York treatment, The New York Post treatment, at least. It is infamous for its headlines. This one says, "Out of Control Musical Plows into New York". Accurate?

LINUS KARP: I mean, as headlines go, I'm very pleased with that one.

NK: And Joseph, for you, do you feel it's out of control or just the right amount of crazy?

JOSEPH MARTIN: I think we specialize in making shows that feel like they could go out of control at any moment, but we always just keep it on the line. So I'm thrilled to be called out of control. That works nicely for me.

NK: You also encourage the audience to get involved. I think even if you didn't, New Yorkers would do that, probably especially for a show like this. Linus how are the audiences there responding so far to numbers like the one we just heard, which is a gem by the way. I will say.

LK: The reception has been incredible. Like we always tend to get fun audiences, but here in New York, they've been next level. Like the show is very interactive and we get certain audience members to play roles in the show as well. And the New Yorkers know how to perform like it's been, it's been so much fun to see how people have just stepped up.

NK: And Joseph, when you think back to, you know, when this idea first started bubbling up, were you both watching the trial with popcorn? And then it hits you like a lightning bolt? I mean, what sold you on the idea?

JM: Yeah, we are constantly online like so many other queer people. And we were watching all of these clips of the trial come out and these ridiculous moments and just the way kind of Gwyneth controlled herself throughout and being so, so grounded and focused and yet kind of ethereal and other worldly. And Linus turned to me and said, Don't you think there's a show in this? Like, what can you imagine? A show called "Gwyneth Go Skiing"? And I went. Ah, I mean. I don't know. I don't know if people are going to remember the trial or if people are going to kind of move away from this fairly soon afterwards. Luckily for us, they did. And the fact that I'm talking to you from Soho in New York for our sold out show is completely insane to me.

NK: Well, let's remind our listeners about what the actual trial sounded like. This is a little bit of Gwyneth Paltrow on the stand. She's being questioned by Terry Sanderson's attorney, Kristin VanOrman.

SOUNDCLIP

KRISTIN VANORMAN: May I ask how tall you are?

GWYNETH PALTROW: I'm just under 5'10''.

KRISTIN VANORMAN: I am so jealous.

GWYNETH PALTROW: I think I'm shrinking though.

KRISTIN VANORMAN: You and me both. I have to wear four inch heels just to make it to 5'5''.

GWYNETH PALTROW: Oh, they're very nice.

KRISTIN VANORMAN: Thank you.

NK: Linus, you play Gwyneth on stage. How do you capture her essence on the stand?

LK: She does so well in the trial. She just turns up, looks flawless every day. Whatever she's asked she doesn't fluster. She just answers straight away. And like, obviously a lot of the questions and some of the answers are incredible.

NK: And again, that clip we played is an actual clip from an actual court of law in the United States. It's so funny to listen back to it now. Joseph, you're playing Terry Sanderson, Gwyneth's nemesis, of course. [JM: Yeah.] What did you do to bring everything to that character?

JM: I got to say, it's so funny to hear the audio from the trial again. It's been a while since I last listened to it and that clip you played, we do actually quote verbatim in the second act of the show, we go through quite a lot of that interrogation. In our version, Kristin VanOrman is portrayed by a puppet which is operated by me as Terry. So it's so bizarre.

NK: Obviously, yeah. [laughter]

JM: [cross talk], how else would you do it? So, you know, obviously we know so much about Gwyneth and her life and her career. Terry, we obviously know a lot less about. So we did what research we could do online, sort of researched his career in optometry. And then that, I think the joy of having a character like that is that you base it in enough fact to make him grounded. But then all you have to go on after that is how he was in the trial. And that allows you to build this larger than life, almost farcical character who has found himself from his own doing in the center of this ridiculous media circus and trial. And watch how he reacts to kind of his world crumbling around him. We make the audience, the jury in our show. So there are two different endings depending on who they vote for as the guilty party. And we've done this show, probably, probably close to 120 times now. And I have one I think 12 of them, like the audience, are very much on Gwyneth's side.

NK: Do you get competitive, though, with who is coming out on top?

JM: Are you kidding me, every time I, the lead juror in the audience opens the envelope and reads out who the winner is. I try not to hype myself up too much, but there are some nights where I really think I'm going to do it and then I don't. And it's devastating. And then the nights when I do win, it was such a genuine shock that I'm not having to act in that moment. We're both like, oh no way. Do we remember the lines that this version of the ending.

NK: Their lawyers have attended? Right.

LK: Yes. So the lawyers from both sides and many of the jurors and witnesses from the case have come to see the show, when we performed it in Park City, Utah, where the trial actually happened. And that was so surreal. And they were all so nice and so positive. Like it was quite scary at first knowing that the lawyers would be in attendance. But they all, they yeah, they were all so positive. It was so nice. Gwyneth's lawyers were amazing. Kristin VanOrman came to see it and she got to meet the puppet version of herself. And she was such a good laugh.

NK: So you're here off-Broadway now. Is the goal to take "Gwyneth Goes Skiing" to Broadway, to the Great White Way?

JM: I mean, look, we'd never say no. You know, I think if you'd asked me a year ago, I wouldn't have even had a thought of that. But there's so many incredible things that have happened to us over the last year or so with the show. You know, who knows?

LK: Why not go straight to Hollywood, like make the film version happen. [JM: Yeah that too.] If Gwyneth wants to play herself, I'll even step down. [laughter]

NK: She can sing. Any chance that Gwyneth is going to go skiing in Canada?

LK: I would love that. But we do have another show that's actually coming to Canada in March, which we're very excited about, called "Diana the Untold and Untrue Story", where I played Princess Diana, of course, from one iconic blond to another. So that's coming to Canada, touring in March.

NK: Well, maybe we'll speak again. Linus and Joseph, a pleasure. Thank you.

JM: Thank you so much for having us.

LK: Thank you. We wish you well.

NK: Likewise.

CH: Linus Karp and Joseph Martin are the co-creators and stars of "Gwyneth Goes Skiing". We reached them in New York City.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Portuguese Suitcase Politician

CH: Dateline Lisbon, Portugal. [Music: Dateline theme] It seemed like the perfect crime. The thief would take two suitcases off the baggage carousel at the Lisbon airport. One of them, his one of them not. Then, cunningly, he would go to the bathroom, put the stolen case inside his case, and stroll away as cool as Danny Ocean. A truly ingenious sleight of hand. There was only one flaw in his plan. There are cameras absolutely everywhere in airports capturing every single thing everyone does. And they definitely captured him doing that. But really, he would have gotten away with it if he could have gotten away with it. The suspect has been unmasked as far right Portuguese MP Miguel Arruda. Or has he? You know, it really does seem like he has. But Mr. Arruda says a, quote, "Cabal with political connotations set him up to take him down due to his political courage". And that that cabal may have manipulated the footage using artificial intelligence on computers. Along with these baggage claims, Mr. Arruda does admit to a couple of missteps. Yes, he did take someone else's suitcase one time and no, he never returned it. But actually there's no but he just did that. And yes, he does have an account on the website where he allegedly sold the stuff he found in that stolen suitcase. But maybe his wife made that account. That could be what happened. He hopes you think that is what happened. One Portuguese media outlet reports that authorities have found 17 stolen bags in Mr. Arruda's homes. He's been kicked out of his party and a police investigation is ongoing, so it's not clear what his future holds. But stealing luggage is just not his bag.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Part 2: Syrian Refugee Visits, Dam Rescue, Australian Beach Balls, Sound Of The Day: Putricia Reaction

Syrian Refugee Visits

Guest: Anwar al-Bunni

CH: For Syrians who fled the war and built new lives elsewhere, the fall of Bashar al-Assad's regime brings a mix of hope and uncertainty. Many may want to visit their homeland, but for refugees, even a short trip could mean losing their refugee status. Several European governments responded to the fall of the regime by suspending the processing of asylum applications from Syrians. Austria took that a step further, saying it was preparing a, quote, "repatriation and deportation program" for Syrians in Germany, which is home to one million Syrians. Anwar al-Bunni has been pushing for an exemption. He's the director of the Syrian Center for Legal Studies and Research. He's a Syrian refugee himself. We reached him in Berlin.

NK: Anwar, since the well for a lot of people felt impossible, finally became possible. You know, as of early December, the idea that you could go back home, what kind of ideas or thoughts have you been having about the possibility of going back to Syria?

ANWAR AL-BUNNI: I am so excited to go back to Syria, in fact. But I cannot go now because my situation in Germany as refugees do not allow to me to go back.

NK: If everything was going your way in your dream scenario, what do you think about when you think about going back to Syria?

AB: You know, we have a lot of work in Syria. Besides, I have my family, my brothers, my sister, their family. They're still there. My friends, a lot of my friends still there. I want to see them after for a very, very long time.

NK: Because of the rules. And as our listeners heard, you're a refugee. You don't have German citizenship at this point. Is it worth the risk for you to return right now?

AB: Yeah it's, there is risk for sure because I will lost my situation as refugees and residents here. I will lost my residence. I cannot back to Germany and I have to back to Germany because you have here a lot of work still, there is many criminals. We following them. There is many cases opening.

NK: So there's work for you in Syria, but work to be done still where you call home in Berlin now. I hear what you're saying. Do you know people who are taking the risk and going back anyway? Is that something you would do?

AB: If there is some somebody take the risk and but, you know, they have maybe Syrian passport. They can go to Lebanon and go through to Syria with the Syrian passport and their passport will not stamp, have stamped they back to Syria. It's maybe a chance to them to go to Syria and back without much change or affect about the situation here. But me as knowing people, everybody will know and I will arrive to Syria with stamp or without stamp. There would be photo. There would be a lot of things. So I cannot have this risk. Sure.

NK: Your daughter is in her 30s. She was able to go to Syria. What did she tell you about what that trip meant to her?

AB: Yes, she just yesterday back from Damascus, yeah. And it's very miserable situation. Her heart was so pained about the people, the children in the streets, the poor of the people. But in fact, what surprised me, how was the situation in Syria, there is no electricity. There is no water or like that. She told me that. I just felt I never left Syria. I just back to my situation and never think or thought about you in Germany. I don't remember you remember I have home in Germany or I must go back or I miss my comfort of situation in Berlin. Never. I just feel I never left Syria through these 10 years. Really.

NK: She wanted to stay.

AB: Yeah.

NK: Obviously you're happy that she could go and come back, but was that hard for you? Because you could not.

AB: It's for me, it's not emotion. I think all the time I never left Syria in my heart. Never. So all the time I contact with the people in Syria, our team still working in Syria [inaudible] a times to contact We funding them, we follow the detainees. So all my life still in Syria and all my work here related to Syria. I believed all the time I will back to Syria and my friends nothing think maybe your grandson will go. I thought, you know I will back to Syria and I will share to rebuild Syria as our dreams all of us.

NK: Last year, just at the end of the year, you and other members of the community were invited to meet with Germany's minister of interior and community. What came out of that meeting?

AB: They all of the Syrians who were in this meeting, they spoke about the Syrians, all of them want to back to have look, but they don't want to lost their situation here because the situation in Syria still not clear. Minister said she will do everything to solve this problem and allow to the Syrians to go to Syria. And now there is administration decision that every refugee, Syrian refugees want to back to Syria he must to inform the Immigration Department about when he will go and when he will back. And the reason and they would allow to him to go and work without lost his situation.

NK: And is that enough for you and others? Do you feel comfortable with that?

AB: Yeah, I think it's, part of the problem. You must to give information inform and gives them the reason why maybe to see your parents, maybe to see your home or like that is solve most of the problem until now.

NK: So you mentioned the changes that have come in now that you believe will allow people to go and come back as they wish. The election is coming up. There is a lot of discussion, debate, rhetoric, anti-immigrant and anti-Syrian refugee rhetoric around. Are you worried that the elections will impact what is happening and make it more difficult for people to go back or stay.

AB: I think without anybody, say, to Syrian deport. Syrians want to back when they feel their homes are ready and secure. Syrians will back without anybody deport them.

NK: You're not worried about the outcome of the election, is what you're saying?

AB: No, no, no. I am not worried.

NK: Because for you, Germany, even after 10 years, is temporary.

AB: So is this a transition justice for stablish, and the court is start its work. I go back to Syria for forever and never anything will replace it.

NK: Anwar, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

AB: You're welcome.

CH: Anwar al-Bunni is the director of the Syrian Center for Legal Studies and Research. He's in Berlin.

[Music: Classic instrumental]

Dam Rescue

CH: Frédéric Mayer says he is lucky to be alive. It's been six weeks now since the commercial diver was working underwater on a hydroelectric dam in Sherbrooke, Quebec. When he was pulled through an open gate and into the current, he's still recovering from his physical injuries today and from the trauma. But he says talking about the event and the heroism of those who saved him is helping.

SOUNDCLIP

FRÉDÉRIC MAYER: After maybe 15 or 20 minutes of dive, I passed through the dam. So I went downstream, 35 feet down. So first I was working 30 feet in the water and I went up in one, two second. It's very dangerous. And to go up fast like this and I have two hundred pounds of equipment and I fell down on the other side of the dam. So it was, it was awful.

GORDON LAMBIE: It sounds terrifying.

FRÉDÉRIC MAYER: It was. And the fact that I was stuck in the 30 to 50 cubic metre of water every second dropping in my body. So I was just yeah, I was afraid of drowning. And...

GORDON LAMBIE: So after passing through the dam, you still had the rushing water pouring, like you were, were you caught?

FRÉDÉRIC MAYER: Yeah. Well, as a diver, we are relayed to the surface with an umbilical. So we have air supply and a communication cable and hot water supply. So I was. Yeah, I was stuck at the end of my umbilical, and I was just like a puppet.

GORDON LAMBIE: Were you on your own there? Was there somebody else there with you?

FRÉDÉRIC MAYER: We were two divers, three divers outside of the water taking care of us. When I went through the dam the other diver immediately went out and we had a crane to bring the divers in the water. So they used the crane to go downstream. And recover my umbilical to drag me because there were about two tons of tension on the umbilical. So there was a lot of tension. And the person of my diving crew went down to save me. He pulled the umbilical about two tons. We don't even know how he did that. It's kind of. The adrenaline rush you got, just like people that can lift a car because their kids are stuck. Yeah. He saw me and he just did it. And he just take action. And he pulled it. Two days later, he was a very weak. And he has pain everywhere because he did something amazing. His name is Felix [inaudible], one of my best friend.

GORDON LAMBIE: This is obviously a very personal thing that happened to you. But I wonder, like, for somebody who is hearing this, it like, did it make you, is there anything you would want people to sort of think about?

FRÉDÉRIC MAYER: Listen to our instinct. Because I had a little instinct that was telling me there's something wrong that day. But, we are a rush to get the job done before Christmas. And unfortunately, I didn't listen to that voice. And yeah, I should, I would tell people, listen to your voice. It's so important.

CH: Frédéric Mayer is a commercial diver and part time paramedic. He was in Sherbrooke to thank the paramedics who responded when he was pulled through a hydroelectric dam last month. He was talking to the CBC's Gordon Lambie. Quebec's Workplace Health and Safety Board says it's investigating the cause of the incident.

[Music: Calm instrumental]

Australian Beach Balls

Guest: Sue Heins

CH: Last week, nine beaches in Sydney, Australia were closed after marble sized balls started washing up. It was disturbing, but it wasn't shocking. It was just the latest incident of mysterious balls showing up on shore since October. We were all hoping these mystery balls were something fun, or at least not disgusting. But unfortunately, authorities say last week's debris contained a mixture of saturated fatty acids, E. coli and fecal bacteria. They've been sent to the New South Wales Environment Protection Authority for further analysis. Sue Heins is the Mayor of the Northern Beaches Council, which oversaw the removal of the mysterious balls before the beaches were reopened to the public. We reached her in Sydney.

NK: Mayor, that combination of things, it doesn't sound very pleasant. Certainly. I can't imagine that it was pleasant to see them on your shores there. What did you think you were dealing with when you saw them?

SUE HEINS: Well, we there was a similar incident last year in the eastern suburbs of Sydney, but the balls were much bigger and they were a different color, whereas these were very, very small, the size of marbles and they were light gray. Sometimes they actually looked like a pumice stone. So we kind of thought, well, they're the same shape, but are they the same thing? So it turned out they are very, very similar.

NK: Do you think that the incidents are connected in some way, that the root cause is the same thing?

SH: More than likely. More than likely.

NK: And what do you think has happened? I've heard some, some people pontificating that this is a sewage issue there.

SH: Yes. I mean, nobody knows for sure yet. And at the moment, we're still all guessing. But yes, it's probably, it probably is something to do with our sewerage outfalls, which this doesn't usually happen, which is why it became suddenly a big story and why we had to close nine beaches. But at the end of the day, it seems that, it feels more than likely it's come out of some kind of waste treatment place. And we do have one on the northern beaches. And the fact that the currents had carried it into certain areas of these beaches makes us wonder if it's from a particular place as well.

NK: This would be upsetting for people on any beach, certainly, but particularly there. You know, this is not something the beaches there are known for. You know, people don't associate this with Australian beaches. It's summertime there. I assume they're usually crowded and certainly well-used. So what are your constituents telling you? This must be a concern for them?

SH: I think, yes, it was very much a concern for them. And in the fact that it happened in summer and on school holidays means that we certainly weren't popular. But the beaches were closed for one day and one day for most of them. And I think there were two beaches that were closed for two days just so that our cleaning crews could get in there and actually clean everything up. So, yes, people certainly weren't happy about it and they were all very curious as to what these things are. And of course, because it was hot and it was a summer day, some people still put themselves in the ocean anyway because they were thinking, well, it's on the sand, so we don't care.

NK: Well, listen, they Australians love their beaches. They're going to dive in if they want to, I guess. But what are health officials telling you so you can inform people at this stage? The beaches have reopened, you've clean things up. But should people be concerned?

SH: No, we haven't been told anything yet. We're still waiting for some kind of response. The Environmental Protection Authority, the EPA, as we call them here, they're the agency that will always advise whether something's unsafe or not. So they were the ones who originally told us that we should close the beaches. They told us how we should collect these balls and they were fine with us opening them. So I don't think there's been any issue since. We certainly had a rather large storm since then. Storms normally means, of course, there's runoff into the beaches as well as currents coming in. But we didn't really find anything since then. So it seemed to be just a really flash one off event at the moment.

NK: So have you gone swimming since? No concerns for you diving in those waters.

SH: I live a little bit west of the beaches, so I have a rather large swimming pool, but we speak in about a week, I am in an ocean pool in a race, a charity race with a few other people. So, no, I won't have any concerns.

NK: And what about the treatment plant you were mentioning? Has anything changed there, are they doing anything differently because of these incidents?

SH: Yes. Not sure about that yet, because those facilities are run by state authorities. But I'm sure there's lots of questions being asked. At the moment, everything is just pontificating, if you like, wondering. But a lot of people thought they were also from some of the large shipping boats that we see out to the horizon. So, yeah, it's going to be really hard to identify exactly where this came from.

NK: When do you think you might have a better answer or clearer answers?

SH: Until the EPA have finished their independent tests. We probably wouldn't know where to go next, but it certainly will be a question that we'll be asking them.

NK: Have they given you a timeline?

SH: No, not at the moment. We, our testing was done rather fast, but the EPA can take a little bit more time because I think they're tests a bit more intense than ours.

NK: Mayor Heins, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

SH: No problem at all. My pleasure.

CH: Sue Heins is the mayor of the Northern Beaches Council. We reached her in Sydney, Australia.

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Sound Of The Day: Putricia Reaction

CH: It finally happened the moment thousands of people waited in line to see and smell. Yesterday, the giant corpse flower at the Royal Botanic Gardens in Sydney, known as Putricia, bloomed and began exuding her tantalizing and revolting perfume. The long awaited moment garnered 24/7 news coverage in Australia. A live stream of the event racked up more than a million views online. As we told you on Wednesday, people were understandably excited to take in Putricia's stunning beauty and the horrid stench. Like this Putricia superfan.

SOUNDCLIP

SUPERFAN: And watching Patricia for a week on the live stream nonstop, waiting for her to pop open. And I saw her today and I was like, I got into the city. I was at home, I was like, get on the train. I'm going to see her.

CH: Putricia's rancid unfurling marked the first time a corpse flower bloomed at Sydney's Royal Botanic Garden in 15 years. And those who waited in line for hours to bear witness did not leave disappointed. Comparing the smell to hot garbage, cat vomit or a dead body if you're stuck thousands of kilometers from Putricia, you missed out on an important part of the experience. Luckily for us, ABC News in Australia was on the ground to report on Putricia's big moment, giving only its bravest journalist the odorous task.

SOUNDCLIP

JAMES: Myles, how is it all with Putricia? Does it smell as bad as advertised?

MYLES HOULBROOK-WALK: James, I've literally got people pinching their nose here at the moment. They're, you know, kind of marveling and also kind of it's like schadenfreude is happening right now. The suffering and pleasure all coming at once. I just had a whiff; I'll have another one. You know, it's actually worse than rugby training that I was at last night and that was 40 blokes with, you know, musty shirts, the works. It's amazing that we've had more than 20 thousand people come and see this blooming flower. It only happens about once a decade or so. It's an imprecise science. But right here at the Royal Botanic Gardens, people are reveling at it and people are getting kind of scurried through on a shuttle mission. They get that quick photo and they can say they bore witness to this truly obscene scent. Don't know why people do it, but I'm certainly enjoying being part of the movement, I guess.

CH: ABC News reporter Myles Houlbrook-Walk taking in the beauty and putridity of Putricia after she finally started blooming yesterday. She has since un-bloomed and will now not bloom again for at least two years. We're wondering if you have ever experienced anything that made you feel simultaneously awestruck and disgusted. If so, call Talkback at (416) 205-5687, or send an email or voice note to aih@cbc.ca.

[Music: Rock instrumental]

Part 3: Denny Morrison, Canada Fentanyl Manufacturing, Address To A Haggis, Encore: Belarusian Election, Avian Flu Cattle Vax, Oil Sniffing Dog

Denny Morrison

CH: Tomorrow, four time Olympic medal winning speed skater Denny Morrison is set to be honored in Calgary. A special ceremony at the Olympic Oval will celebrate his individual races at the Sochi games, where he won silver in the men's thousand metre long track speed skate and bronze in the 15 hundred meter. And later, a banner emblazoned with his image will be raised to the rafters.

SOUNDCLIP

DENNY MORRISON: I mean, it's an incredibly honoring and humbling experience, really. I mean, Jeremy was one of the first banners raised into the Hall of Champions, they call it, the Oval. And Jeremy Weatherspoon is just the juggernaut of the sport. Right. And so to see my banner raised up alongside his. It's just a surreal experience. I spent years of my career training at the Oval looking at his banner and dreaming of one day, you know, achieving in this sport what he had achieved. And so it's pretty cool to, I mean, it's more than pretty good. It's incredible. It's amazing.

LOREN MCGINNIS: Yeah. Well, let's go back to that, if you don't mind. Take us back to the, you know, the races in Sochi, the run up, the journey and then winning those medals. I mean. Yeah, how do you kind of carry that story with you now or how do you think about it?

DENNY MORRISON: I had been in two Olympics before the Sochi games, and I had won individual, won team pursuit medals, silver in Torino and then gold in 2010 in Vancouver, which was an incredible highlight of my career as well. But it seemed as though the individual medals were sort of elusive up to that point, and it seemed as though they were going to remain elusive because I had fallen at the Canadian Olympic trials before the Sochi Games in the thousand metres, and I was only set to compete in the 15 hundred metres at the Sochi Olympics. But me and Gilmore had been training together since the 2010 Games for four years straight. And in the lead up to the thousand metres, he had finished racing his five hundred metres. His specialty distance, he placed 10th in that race. And then a few days after that, before the thousand, we were still training together, still doing Excels together, still doing laps together. And he obviously made the decision that he thought I was skating. The best all I had ever skated at. And he wanted and he did offer his support to me to race that race in place of him. And I took that opportunity and we made the most of it. I literally had, I think, the best race of my entire career, my entire life. And it happened the perfect moment. And I won a silver medal by 0.04 seconds from the gold. And it was a pretty amazing moment for me. But I think it spoke volumes about our teamwork that we had put in over the past four years and just this incredible Canadian moment of generosity and teamwork.

CH: Speed skater Denny Morrison speaking with Loren McGinnis on The Eyeopener in Calgary today.

[Music: Violin instrumental]

Canada Fentanyl Manufacturing

Guest: James Cooke

CH: Fentanyl is deadly and it's only getting cheaper and easier to make, including here in Canada. New data show the number of organized crime groups in Canada manufacturing fentanyl has nearly doubled in the past year. And while much of that is staying in the country, an increasing amount is being exported. That's according to a new report from Criminal Intelligence Service Canada. The Canadian agency isn't saying where exactly these drugs are headed, but U.S. President Donald Trump believes they're going to his country.

SOUNDCLIP

DONALD TRUMP: The fentanyl coming through Canada is massive.

CH: But the Canada Border Services Agency says Canada is not in any way a significant source of fentanyl going to the U.S. and that the vast majority comes from Mexico. Staff Sergeant James Cooke is a member of the RCMP Organized Crime Unit. We reached him in Ottawa.

NK: Staff Sergeant Cooke, we know from what the CBSA says and other Canadian government officials that the majority of fentanyl going to the United States is not coming from Canada. But at the same time, we have this new government report that says Canada should be considered a source country for fentanyl. So given both of those things and what the U.S. President is saying, how do you respond to that accusation that this is massive?

JAMES COOKE: Well, certainly evidence exists to support that synthetic drugs, including fentanyl, are produced domestically. However, there's little to no evidence to support or data to support that you know, large amounts of fentanyl are crossing the Canada-U.S. border going south. And that's both from Canadian agencies as well as law enforcement agencies in the U.S. that we partner with on a daily basis.

NK: So when you and the teams you work with hear that that kind of statement from the U.S. president repeated often now, what do you think?

JC: Well, unfortunately, we just have to, you know, follow what the evidence, what our investigations, what intelligence and certainly what the data demonstrates and shows from seizures with our, in coordination with our law enforcement partners such as CBSA and the U.S. agencies. We just have to follow what the evidence and the intelligence is telling us. And that's really that there's a very little Canadian fentanyl that's going southbound. And we've maintained that primarily there is small micro packaging that may be crossing the border primarily through the postal mode and likely dark web or Internet based marketplaces, it would be the source.

NK: In terms of your investigations. You know, this new report from Criminal Intelligence Service Canada says the number of organized crime groups making fentanyl here in Canada was 51 in 2023. And the number of organized crime groups producing fentanyl in this country in 2024 jumped to 99. Are you seeing that? Those kinds of fentanyl labs in your investigations?

JC: As we all know, organized crime is driven by profits and driven by the demand. So if the profits for a certain commodity are higher or the demand is higher domestically, then of course they will follow where those profits are. And they will attempt to produce or exploit that population. And our eye is on investigating those organized crime groups and trying to thwart their profits.

NK: You know, well, as would your colleagues, that when one avenue or one door closes, a criminal or criminal groups are going to figure out a way to continue their operations, expand them, continue to make money, as you've said. So if that's something that law enforcement knows, why are we seeing such a jump? Should there not have been more done to head this off at the pass?

JC: It takes a multitude of agencies and our kind of holistic or whole of government approach to tackling this problem, both, you know, social programs, the health system and of course, you know, law enforcement and prosecutions. And I can't speak so much to, you know, why didn't we? But what I can speak to is what we're doing now. And it is, you know, a full court press against not only the domestic fentanyl market, but also what is supplying that market.

NK: Last summer, we spoke with a Reuters reporter who had investigated how easy it is to import the precursors to fentanyl into the United States. How easy is it to get those precursors here in Canada, Staff Sergeant? And what problems does that ease present for you in law enforcement?

JC: Investigationally the challenges are extreme because the pre-precursors. So the organized crime groups are even moving a step back into the synthesis process to be able to bring in something that may not be regulated and may have very legitimate purposes.

NK: So it's legal. They can be obtained legally and imported legally.

JC: Absolutely. And they have legitimate purposes. And so we don't want to get in the way of legitimate trade and legitimate industry. However, when it's redirected for an illicit purpose, of course, that's when the organized crime groups are not only exploiting the regulations, but they're exploiting, you know, trusted businesses that may not know that the things that they're importing are being diverted for illicit use.

NK: We know Canada is implementing measures at the border with the United States in response to these threats of tariffs from the Trump administration. Will those measures help your operations?

JC: I don't think that there's any doubt that within my own office, within the investigative teams across the country, any amount of funding or resources is going to improve the ability for law enforcement, both, you know, federally, provincially and from a police of jurisdiction perspective to do their jobs.

NK: And just finally, Staff Sergeant, before we let you go. What we heard from the U.S. President at the outset of our conversation exaggeration, hyperbole there. Does what he is saying and continues to say help or hurt your efforts?

JC: I don't think as a law enforcement officer, I even have to consider what, you know, any political figure, you know, says. For us, we are committed to fight the fight against organized crime both here in Canada and how they exploit things elsewhere. And that is, you know, our number one goal is the public safety of Canada. The political aspects of that are really not something that we can really be influenced or bothered by.

NK: Staff Sergeant, thank you so much for your time.

JC: Thank you.

CH: Staff Sergeant James Cooke is a member of the RCMP's Organized Crime Unit. We reached him in Ottawa.

[Music: Funky instrumental]

Address To A Haggis

CH: Tomorrow might just be any regular old Saturday to you, but to people of Scottish ancestry January 25th is a day of celebration. Robbie Burns Day, a day to gather and pay tribute to the legendary poet Robert Burns. Drink some scotch whiskey. Eat the singular delicacy known as haggis. And then probably drink some more Scotch whiskey. In Kelowna, B.C. the day will be marked by a traditional Burns Supper at the local curling club. John Murray is with the Kelowna, a pipe band, and is one of the hosts of the dinner.

SOUNDCLIP

JOHN MURRAY: The haggis is piped in by a piper. And the haggis itself is carried proudly by, usually by the chefs that's prepared it. It's marched to the front of the room, placed in front of the haggis dresser. And then the address is done.

CHRIS WALKER: And the address is a poem by Robbie Burns.

JOHN MURRAY: Yes, it's quite a long poem and includes stabbing the haggis and talking about all the great content of a haggis and how it compares to other food. And the haggis is stabbed. And then a couple of, and everybody address has a toast to the haggis. A little dram of scotch, which I'm sure you'll enjoy.

CHRIS WALKER: I'm sure I will.

JOHN MURRAY: And then the haggis is pipped back out again.

CHRIS WALKER: And so your role in this as a piper is to, is to what? To pipe in the haggis to do some of the music for the dancing. Do you get any time to sit and enjoy the haggis and the scotch?

JOHN MURRAY: Of course. Just a little bit of time. Yeah. But yes, just a little bit of time.

CH: Piper John Murray is hosting Robbie Burns Day festivities in Kelowna, B.C. He was speaking with Chris Walker on Daybreak South. Now, earlier this week, we spoke with Scotland's largest maker of haggis. James Macsween is the managing director of Macsween of Edinburgh, and he talked to Nil about rejigging the recipe of the savory organ pudding for the American market, where imported traditional haggis from Scotland has been banned for more than 50 years. And now here is Mr. Macsween reciting "Address to Haggis" by Robert Burns.

SOUNDCLIP

JAMES MACSWEEN: Fair fa' your honest, sonsie face, Great chieftain o' the pudding-race! Aboon them a' ye tak your place, Painch, tripe, or thairm: Weel are ye wordy o'a grace As lang's my arm.

The groaning trencher there ye fill, Your hurdies like a distant hill, Your pin wad help to mend a mill In time o'need, While thro' your pores the dews distil Like amber bead.

His knife see rustic Labour dight, An' cut you up wi' ready sleight, Trenching your gushing entrails bright, Like ony ditch; And then, O what a glorious sight, Warm-reekin', rich!

Then, horn for horn, they stretch an' strive: Deil tak the hindmost! on they drive, Till a' their weel-swall'd kytes belyve Are bent like drums; Then auld Guidman, maist like to rive, Bethankit! hums.

Is there that owre his French ragout Or olio that wad staw a sow, Or fricassee wad make her spew Wi' perfect sconner, Looks down wi' sneering, scornfu' view On sic a dinner?

Poor devil! see him owre his trash, As feckless as wither'd rash, His spindle shank, a guid whip-lash; His nieve a nit; Thro' bloody flood or field to dash, O how unfit!

But mark the Rustic, haggis-fed, The trembling earth resounds his tread. Clap in his walie nieve a blade, He'll mak it whissle; An' legs an' arms, an' heads will sned, Like taps o' thrissle.

Ye Pow'rs, wha mak mankind your care, And dish them out their bill o' fare, Auld Scotland wants nae skinking ware That jaups in luggies; But, if ye wish her gratefu' prayer Gie her a haggis!

CH: James Macsween managing director of Macsween of Edinburgh reciting Robert Burns "Address to a Haggis".

[Music: Guitar instrumental]

Encore: Belarusian Election

CH: Belarusian President Aleksandr Lukashenko is not making the same mistake twice. The longtime authoritarian leader and friend of Vladimir Putin is guaranteed to win this Sunday's election, and that's largely because opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya isn't allowed to run or even be in the country. When she ran in 2020, in place of her imprisoned husband. She won 80 per cent of the vote. She claimed victory. People took to the streets demanding President Lukashenko step down, but their protests were crushed with violence and mass arrests. Ms. Tsikhanouskaya is calling the imminent election a sham. But as she told Nil in November, that doesn't mean she thinks people should take to the streets. While she was in Canada for meetings with the federal government, she joined Nil in the As It Happens' studio. Here's part of their conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

NK: Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, welcome to the As It Happens studio.

SVIATLANA TSIKHANOUSKAYA: Hi, everyone.

NK: When you look at the incoming U.S. administration and the things Donald Trump has said about ending the war in Ukraine and ending it quickly, are you worried that Belarus could become collateral damage in all of that?

ST: So American help and assistance to Ukrainians is crucial for Ukrainians and for us Belarusians. And I want to believe that my policy towards Ukraine and Belarus will remain the same. The most assistance to the Belarusians and Ukrainians because we are fighting global evil. We are on the front line of fight against dictatorship. And we have to understand that there are no simple solutions to difficult questions. You know we also want peace. We also want to, you know, return our country back, you know, but it should be just peace because, you know, when dictators see indecisiveness, they perceive it as weakness. And they think that they really don't respect democratic world they think that you are not united, you are not decisive. It emboldened them. They make alliances the unite to each other. And they think that so they can ruin democratic society. They can poison democratic people with the narratives that, look, it's not your wars. You don't have to interfere. Just enjoy a comfortable life, you know. But it's not so because they can knock your doors, knock of democratic world and it will be much more troubles than now.

NK: The world will be watching Washington, obviously in early January for the inauguration of the incoming president. Later that same month in your country there is what is being billed as an election. You've called it something else. What do you want the world to know about what is said to happen in the new Year in Belarus?

ST: In Belarus in January Lukashenko's going to have a ritual of appointing himself again as president, though he lost legitimacy back in 2020, he's not recognized no bills and people by no democratic society. But it's important for him to prove himself that he has ability to draw necessary number in the ballots. So we call our democratic partners preliminarily not to recognize this elections, not to legitimize Lukashenko's regime, and we have full support in the democratic society. But for sure, these so-called elections will not change anything politically. You know, in Belarus, you know, Lukashenka is there supported by Putin. But we have huge strength from the Belarusian people and from democratic world in resistant the dictatorship.

NK: What will opponents of this regime do to oppose the election? I know you've talked about people going underground because the situation necessitates that. How do you think they'll push back?

ST: I don't think that the possibility for uprising will take place because the level of repressions is very strong. I believe like in gulag at the moment. So we are not asking to go to the streets because it will be more victims, more political prisoners, and it's not the moment we are preparing for. For sure, it will be the moment of opportunity for Belarusian to resist again. It might be connected with the victor of Ukraine or with some economic situation or maybe some instability in Russia. I don't know. But we have to wait real moment like Black swan because people are ready to oppress, people are ready to be on the streets and to, you know, resist. But, you know, these so-called elections will not change anything. But, of course, people want to somehow, to contribute to our fight. So we ask them, if you are forced to go to the polling station, so put the stick against everybody. It will not change anything. Nobody's going to count your votes. But still, it will be like your moral, you know, release. People who don't want to vote, please don't go.

NK: And just finally, I think that's your husband's photograph on your folder there. You carry that with you always.

ST: Yeah. I always kept a picture of my husband with myself because, you know, he's in jail for four years already. And the last more than one year, he's kept incommunicado. It's a new type of torturing. When lawyer is not allowed to visit him, letters are not delivered. You know, I don't know if he's alive because I have no information at all. And we have many people like him who don't have any connection with freedom. And, of course, we have to demand release of my husband and the other political prisoners. And I need this picture constantly with me because, you know, the fight for democracy is not easy one. And I also sometimes frustrated, of course, sometimes I'm exhausted and I don't think where to take strength to continue. So it's always like remind for me of what, what I'm fighting for. I need to feel him nearby, you know, because people in prisons, they rely only on us. They don't have other way out from prisons only, you know, for defeat of Lukashenka regime. And it's like remind to me in the moments of inspiration.

NK: When was the last time you spoke?

ST: It was May 2020.

NK: What would you say now?

ST: If there is a meeting with my husband, it means that we won and the people can hug they [inaudible] relatives who are in prisons at the moment. The only thing I regret that it is too long. Too long. Because every day in prison, in Belarusian prisons is a loss of health, loss of hope. And, you know, people who are getting released because they served their terms, they say that the awful feeling in prison is the feeling of being abandoned, the feeling that you're alone, the feeling that nobody cares about you. So that's why with solidarity, with every act of sympathy, you know, just be sure to our political prisoners that we are fighting. Please don't give up. Take care of your health and life.

NK: Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, thank you so much for your time.

ST: Thank you.

CH: From November, that was exiled Belarus opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya, speaking to Nil in our Toronto studio. On Sunday in Belarus, people will head to the polls for an election that is widely considered to be fixed in favor of Aleksandr Lukashenko.

[Music: Calm instrumental]

Avian Flu Cattle Vax

CH: Dairy producers across North America have been taking precautions, like regularly testing their milk and cutting off contact with other farms in the desperate hope of preventing the spread of avian influenza. The virus is, of course, more common in birds, but recently it's been found in more than 800 dairy cattle in the U.S. And scientists at the University of Saskatchewan are studying how the virus affects dairy cows. Research that could lead to the development of a vaccine. Bryce Warner is a microbiologist at the University of Saskatchewan. He told the CBC what happened when they put dairy cows into contact with avian flu a second time.

SOUNDCLIP

BRYCE WARNER: They didn't see the same drop in milk production the second time around. The virus also didn't replicate the same as it did the first time around. They didn't shed any virus in the milk that they were producing. So it looks like that first infection induced an immune response. It was able to protect them from any secondary exposure, which is good news.

STEPHANIE MASSICOTTE: So can you explain how this all kind of connects into a vaccination and why it would be beneficial?

BRYCE WARNER: Yeah. So what it does suggest is that if we were to develop a vaccine and we could induce the same type of immunity that we did see in our study, we would be able to protect dairy cows if they were to get exposed. So, so far, we're lucky that we haven't had any dairy herds exposed in Canada, but that could happen at any time. So if we were able to get a vaccine and get it into dairy cows, it suggests that we would be able to protect them from infection and prevent that drastic drop in milk production that they see when they get infected, which can have a big impact on the economic part of the dairy industry.

STEPHANIE MASSICOTTE: Right now, if a herd of dairy cattle were to get the avian flu, what would that farmer essentially do? Do they just hope and wait for the recovery or do they not use those cows anymore?

BRYCE WARNER: Yeah, it's an interesting question. So they would probably have to quarantine their cows. And then, you know, the milk that's being produced by those cows probably would not make it into circulation. We know that that's what's happening in the U.S. right now is herds that are identified as positive. They go into quarantine. And then that usually is, I think, 60 days. And then they keep testing the milk to make sure that all the cows are negative. And then eventually, once they've recovered and there's no virus, then they can be released from quarantine and then they can go back into the normal dairy production cycle.

CH: University of Saskatchewan microbiologist Bryce Warner speaking to Stephanie Massicotte on Saskatoon Morning.

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Oil Sniffing Dog

CH: She has floppy brown ears, a wagging tail and a nose for innovation. Poppy, a six year old Springer spaniel is more than just a very good dog. She's a scientific pioneer. Using her remarkable nose and sense of smell. Poppy sniffed out oil submerged in water and trapped under ice. And a Manitoba researcher says that is no small feat. This is the first scientific proof that dogs can detect oil hidden beneath ice. Vince Palace is the head research scientist with the Manitoba based International Institute for Sustainable Development, which runs the Experimental Lakes area. He spoke to the CBC about the discovery.

SOUNDCLIP

VINCE PALACE: So we cut 30 holes in the ice that were one metre by one metre. We allowed them to freeze over and then we put the oil under the ice. It's buoyant oil. So we knew it wasn't going to go anywhere. It would stay in the holes that we cut. And then we cut to nine holes for each type of oil that we were testing. And only three of those holes actually had oil in them. So then we performed what we call a blinded study. So neither the trainer nor the dog knew where that oil was. And we let them sort of do their search for the zigzag pattern. And the dogs never alerted. And an alert means the dog sort of sniffs around the hole more intently, does a little bit of digging and then sits down. And that sit down is what we call an alert. The dogs never alerted on a place where there was no oil and 100 per cent of the time found where there was the oil. [CF: Wow.] In this case, we're working with diesel and another type of light oil called condensate that they mix with bitumen in order to make it thinner and they can pump it through pipelines.

CORY FUNK: And as a scientist, what was that like for you to witness that and get that conclusive of a result?

VINCE PALACE: I mean, it's almost unbelievable, right? It's remarkable that those nine holes I should have mentioned were spread over an area of about four hundred metres. So it's not a small area to search and for the dog to zone in, you know, to the metre of where the oil was incredible.

CH: That's Vince Palace, the head research scientist with the Manitoba based International Institute for Sustainable Development. He was talking to Cory Funk on Radio Noon in Winnipeg. Now, I'll mention that all oils that are used by the IISD for testing purposes are completely removed from the Experimental Lakes area.

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CH: You've been listening to As It Happens on the CBC Listen App. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One after Your World Tonight.

NK: And you can always read more about the stories and conversations we feature on As It Happens on our website, cbc.ca/aih. I'm Nil Köksal.

CH: And I'm Chris Howden.

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The AIH Transcript For January 24, 2025

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