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The AIH transcript for January 09, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: Fighting fire with fire. Her home survived, but a woman from Pacific Palisades is afraid it won't stay that way. She tells us she's willing to defy evacuation orders to try to protect it herself.

CH: Triple threat. Increasingly, people in Ontario are overdosing on multiple different kinds of drugs at once. Our guest says that deadly combination of opioids and stimulants is making it even harder for doctors to save lives.

NK: Truly, coldly, deeply. A team of scientists have successfully drilled one of the oldest ice cores ever -- a million-year-old block of ice the length of eight Eiffel towers -- that they hope will solve some deep dark mysteries.

CH: That’ll do, donkey. [NK chuckles] We bid farewell to the beast of burden who served as a model for Shrek’s two-dimensional donkey sidekick -- a very three-dimensional donkey named Perry.

NK: Peeling back the layers. The mystery of a bowl of bananas at an intersection in the U.K. was confounding enough. But tonight, we bring you a mystery brought to us by one of you: Whitehorse’s own banana island.

CH: And…on pans and needles. The government of Belgium issues very pointed criticism, after the city of Ghent suggests citizens cook their Christmas tree needles [NK chuckles] to make a delicious, potentially toxic, butter.

CH: As It Happens, the Thursday edition. Radio that's watching the fir fry.

Part 1: LA Fires: Homeowner, Old Ice Core, ‘Shrek’ Donkey Obit

LA Fires: Homeowner

Guest: Tricia Cosentino

CH: A lot of people in Tricia Cosentino's community have lost everything. The Pacific Palisades resident is among those who fled their Los Angeles neighbourhood in the face of fires that have killed at least five and forced some 180,000 Californians to evacuate. But unlike countless others, her home is somehow still standing. She says it may not stay that way much longer, though -- unless she and others are permitted to re-enter their neighbourhood to protect the few buildings that remain. We reached Tricia Cosentino on the road from a family home in Ojai, California back to Pacific Palisades, earlier today.

NK: Tricia, where are you on the road right now?

TRICIA COSENTINO: We are driving on the 101, near Oxnard. It's, it's clear, it's sunny, the sky is blue. But up ahead, over the mountains, we can see the billowing clouds of smoke. On the other side of that hill is Upper Malibu.

NK: That's what it looks like. But I wonder what goes through your mind as you make that trek?

TC: Well, we're actually, we're trying to strategize how to get back to our house, which we know it's going to prove to be very, very difficult. So, that, that, you know, the conversations that we're having right now is what's the best way to sneak past any barriers or police? Our community is, you know, as you know, most of it is gone. And there's a very, very small amount of homes still left in the Palisades Highlands.

NK: The firefighters have left. And we want to go, and we want to, we want to be there, and we want to wet down our homes. I just have the most amazing family. And one of my clients got up on an e-bike, and I gave him all the information. He just got into my house, and he got out a safe, and he got out some paintings, and he got a letter from my grandmother. And he got my son's car. So, we know if he did it that we can do it. There are people literally with hoses, and there's no firefighters, so they better let us in.

NK: I can only, I can only imagine, Tricia, the urge and the need to see it, to, with your own eyes. To want to protect your home. You talk about barriers. There's risks, certainly. Officials, I would imagine, say it is not safe for you to go back. Why take that risk when these fires have been deadly already?

TC: Well, number one, the people who are there, I've spoken to three people in the last hour who are there, say it is smoky, but it is not, is not dangerous. It's not, it's not a walk in the park, but it's, you know, people keep talking about let it just burn. Everyone wants us to let it burn. They have let it burn for days. Everything we've lost, every memory we've made in that town is gone. And we have our homes, and we want to fight for them. So, we are not going to stop. And we won't take any risks that's going to jeopardize our lives. If it looks bad, we'll leave. But if people are up there and the sky is blue, we're going to go.

NK: And what's your, what's your sense of why firefighters made the decision to withdraw from your neighborhood in particular? Were you given any information? Obviously, there are many fires to fight.

TC: No! I mean, there's still fires burning everywhere. Yeah, I mean, I understand why they left. I'm not blaming them. We have limited men. There are limited resources. I understand. But the police cannot tell us that we cannot protect our homes. That is a risk we are willing to take. And, and, you know, they're not going to shoot us. So, [chuckling] I said to my neighbours, we just have to go in a group. And, and these guys, these, these, you know, these husbands and fathers are going up on these bikes, and they are doing the best that they can. And we want to be there to help them.

NK: That neighbor you mentioned that was able to get things from your home and went in on the e-bike, how did they describe what they saw?

TC: Honestly, we didn't have a lot of conversation. It was mostly just texting him information. You know, he took a picture in my dining room of a certain table to check to make sure. And just seeing, seeing that table that the table is still sitting there in my dining room was such a beautiful, beautiful picture. I can't even describe to you. So, I don't know. I think he's totally safe. He did not say anything. He was walking down the driveway. You know, he didn't describe it as being harrowing. It's just, you know, our driveway is open and free.

NK: And is it true that, that water and power are still running?

TC: They're still running. He got into my, you know, my garage. My, my, my electric garage was openable. There is still, his, his place, the electricity is still on. I believe the water is running.

NK: How long is the, is the drive from Ojai, where, where you're staying, to your neighborhood?

TC: We are about an hour, maybe 40 minutes away now. The roads are really clear. So, it's a great time. You know, L.A.'s traffic is horrendous, but this time of the day, you can actually get around.

NK: And how does that compare to when you had to leave?

TC: It was, it was gridlocked. I mean, it was like Armageddon trying to get out. The 405, the, all the freeways were blocked. Every road. Every road. Everyone was leaving. It felt like like rats leaving a, you know, a sewer where they're just everyone is going. So, it's a beautiful, beautiful, typical January sunny day in, in California. I wish it was fricking rain. [laughing] I've never wanted rain so badly. But, you know, from, from where we are, the sun is coming into the window. And we're doing the best that we can.

NK: You, you have a tutoring business. And I'm just wondering if that, if you can even think about how that continues, given, you know, two schools have, have been destroyed in this fire just in the Pacific Palisades?

TC: Yeah, I'm thinking about it. I own a Kumon math and reading centre. You have them in Toronto. And I've had it for 10 years. And my students, most of them are homeless. They don't have their school. And I hope to be, within the next two days, once I get this stuff with my house figured out, to be doing virtual lessons with them. Kumon has been extraordinarily supportive. And telling me that we will set up shop anywhere. And any of the families that are local will be welcome to come. And these are families that left. We are going to figure out how to get their kids any academic support that we can. But, yeah, it's my passion. And knowing that those families, you know, don't have homes, it makes me want to help them even more.

NK: Tricia, I very much appreciate your time. Please take care.

TC: Thank you. Thank you.

CH: Tricia Cosentino lives in the Pacific Palisades. We reached her on the road earlier today -- during an attempt to return to her home.

[chillhop house tour music]

Old Ice Core

Guest: Carlo Barbante

CH: Four years might seem like a long time to focus on collecting samples from a single site. But when you're looking a 2,800-metre-long ice core, found in a harsh Antarctic climate that dates back over a million years, that's not the kind of thing you can do halfway. Now, an international team of scientists say they've successfully collected that ice core. Carlo Barbante is an Italian glaciologist and the coordinator of the Beyond European Project for Ice Coring in Antarctica. We reached him in Venice.

NK: Professor Barbante, can you help us get a sense of what it looked like and felt like out at the site where you were working? I know you're back in Venice right now, but take us back out on the ice with you.

NK: You've called this kind of a time machine in other conversations you've had. What do you hope to learn from it?

CB: Yeah, it's literally a time machine. It's a, it's a record continuous that allow us to tell what the atmosphere was a million years ago, 1.2 million years ago, and probably more than that because we still see signal underneath. But we have two details, to go in detail with, with more high-resolution analysis. We plan to reconstruct the temperature of the past, so we plan to see different climatic cycles. Cold and warm. Cold and warm period that follow one after the other one during the last, the last millions of years. So, that's, that's really fascinating. And, above all, I mean, we, we will better understand the processing, the process that governs climate over different pressure, you know, and over different forcing factors that includes greenhouse gas concentration or dust. So, this has also a lot of implications for today's and for future climate because that's a general rule that there is a lot of our past in our future, you know? So, that, that's why we are so much interested in looking at this old ice.

NK: I appreciate your time, Professor. Thank you.

CB: Thank you very much, and you are welcome.

CH: Carlo Barbante is a professor at Ca' Foscari University of Venice and a senior associate member of the Institute of Polar Sciences of the National Research Council of Italy. He's in Venice.

[ambient]

‘Shrek’ Donkey Obit

Guest: Jenny Kiratli

SOUNDCLIP

SHREK: What are you…no! No!

DONKEY: Oh, this is going to be fun! We can stay up late, swapping manly stories. And in the morning, I'm making waffles!

SHREK: Doooooohhhh!!!

DONKEY: Where do I sleep?

CH: From the movie Shrek, the unmistakable voice of Eddie Murphy as Donkey -- a donkey. And if you've watched that movie over and over, as many of us have, you really get to feel that you know Donkey. But Jenny Kiratli really did know Donkey. Sort of. Ms. Kiratli is the lead handler with the Barron Park Donkey Project in Palo Alto, California. And back when animators were getting started on Shrek, they picked one of the project's donkeys to be the model for Shrek's best frenemy. A Jerusalem miniature donkey named Perry. And Perry died late last week. He was 30 years old. We reached Jenny Kiratli in Palo Alto.

NK: Jenny, I know this is, this is a big loss for you and the other handlers who worked with Perry. You all loved Perry very much. So, how are you doing today?

JENNY KIRATLI: I'm doing okay. It's, it's a week since we lost him.

NK: For those who have never had a pet, it might be hard for them to understand this kind of deep emotional connection. Can you try to describe that?

JK: Yes, that's a good question. I think a lot of people think this is a lot of commotion about a donkey. There was just something very special, there's something very special about donkeys. We have two others, and they are just unique animals. They are very therapeutic. They are very calm and gentle. They are highly intelligent and very interactive. And Perry has been in the pasture since 1997. And many, many people, handlers, but all throughout the community, have formed individual personal relationships with him. I always describe him, really, he's just like a big dog.

NK: Well, just even looking at the photographs, those eyes, he just seemed so, so warm, even in the photographs.

JK: It, it's been difficult looking at so many photographs and collecting video from the past just to share with so many people. He really, he really just had a tremendously deep gaze. His very soulful eyes. He would look right at you. But he was very funny. He was, [NK chuckles] he really was a joker. And there just was so much going on there.

NK: That, that, that jokey nature, is that what attracted, you know, the team from Shrek or a team member making that film, an animator, you know, to model Donkey in the film after Perry?

JK: You know, that would be a good story. But really, it's much more mundane than that, to be honest. The, the company that had the contract from Dreamworks to do the animation was a local Silicon Valley company right here in Palo Alto called Pacific Data Images. But the animators were working on the character and they needed a live animal, a live donkey for the movement and the facial expressions and the the live action.

NK: Yeah.

JK: And the animator's wife walked the path that goes by our pasture and knew that there were donkeys here. And she is the one who let her husband know there were donkeys here. [NK chuckles] And he followed up. And a dozen or so animators came over and spent an hour or so with him, watching him, videotaping him. He was five years old at the time. Very feisty, very bouncy.

NK: Oh, as, as Donkey in the film is. [chuckling]

JK: Yeah. Yeah. So, I do think, I do think that there was quite a bit of our Perry that ended up in Donkey. I had thought that they did motion capture in the, in the, in the field because they had that technology at the time. But I had the, the opportunity to speak to the lead animator just this year, and he corrected me and said, no, they did not use any motion capture technology. He looked a little disdainful that I had suggested it.

NK: Oh! [laughing]

[fax machine?]

CH: Just a sec. Just getting a message here on the state-of-the-art studio fax machine. Oh. Oh no.

[sad music]

CH: Quick correction: during our program of January 9th, I described how to make butter from Christmas tree needles -- a recipe shared on the website for the city of Ghent, Belgium. Well, the government of the country Belgium urges you not to do that. According to Hélène Bonte from the Belgian food agency, quote: "Christmas trees are not intended to end up in the food chain." Unquote. I think that means don't eat them. Ms. Bonte goes on to say that your tree was probably sprayed with pesticide and/or flame retardant, both of which are extremely toxic, and neither of which are good in butter. Ghent has since changed its web post a bit, but not as much as you might expect. Regardless: our apologies for the error -- and for dropping such a tannenbaum-shell.

[ambient]

Part 2: Ontario Drug Deaths, Whitehorse Banana Mystery

Ontario Drug Deaths

Guest: Tara Gomes

CH: Too many Ontarians continue to die of overdoses. And the substances involved are changing. That's according to a new report released by Public Health Ontario and The Ontario Drug Policy Research Network. It looked at accidental alcohol, stimulant, opioid, and benzodiazepine-related toxicity deaths in the province from 2018 to 2022. Not only did the average number of deaths per day rise over that period -- from 4.5 in 2018 to eight in 2022. The report also says that the number of deaths involving more than one substance increased. Epidemiologist Tara Gomes is the lead principal investigator at the Ontario Drug Policy Research Network and a scientist at Unity Health. We reached her in Toronto.

NK: Tara, what kind of an increase in accidental overdoses involving these multiple drugs are you seeing?

TARA GOMES: We're really seeing that, especially since the COVID-19 pandemic, so in the last three or four years, that there has been a rise in deaths that are involving two, three or even four substances. Most typically, it's opioids and stimulants combined together. But we also are just seeing a growth in, in the combination of many of these different substances like alcohol and benzodiazepines as well that are contributing to these deaths.

NK: Were you bracing for the kind of numbers that this research reveals?

TG: Unfortunately, we're always kind of bracing for the worst because this is an issue that has continued to, to worsen for more than a decade now. I will say that we have seen this trend towards more combined use of drugs, either intentionally or unintentionally. And we know that that is contributing to more harm. But it is always, you know, it does give me pause when I see this because it does just speak to the complexity of this issue and the need for us to be really proactive in thinking about how we can best support people who use a variety of different substances.

NK: And just to dig into that complexity you're talking about, what does it signal to you that you're seeing this combination cause more deaths?

TG: It tells us that not only is our drug supply more unpredictable, we're increasingly seeing fentanyl in the supply with other substances like benzodiazepines, which are really sedating. And when used together, increase the risk of people having an overdose and potentially dying. But it also shows that people are having to change their substance use patterns to adapt to that reality of what the drug supply looks like. So, we hear more and more that people are using cocaine and methamphetamines to try and address that sedation they get from the opioid supply, to keep themselves awake, and to keep themselves or their personal belongings safe. And so, it really shows how as our drug supply becomes more unpredictable, not only does it cause harm, but it also causes people to have to change the way that they use drugs in a way that can actually influence their risk of harm as well.

NK: It's incredibly sad what you're describing.

TG: It is. It's a really difficult time for many people to be working in this space. People are losing friends and, and loved ones every day from this crisis. And it's incredibly traumatizing and difficult for so many people in our community.

NK: Your report also talks about a finding of access to health care. Just tell our listeners about what that revealed to you.

TG: We really wanted to better understand how people are engaging in our health care system in the short time before their death to see if there were missed opportunities for better supporting people. And we found that, really startlingly, about one-third of people who died from a substance related toxicity had some kind of health care interaction in the week before death. So, there's a high degree of engagement with both physicians in the community as well as with our emergency departments and hospital system among people who are at very high risk of having an accidental overdose in the next week. And, and it really reflected to me how much we need to make sure that this health care system is trained and ready to create spaces where people are comfortable going to seek care and where they're getting the best quality care possible.

NK: So, you're saying if in that first interaction there was more support or encouragement to stay, these deaths would be prevented?

TG: They certainly could be. So, one of the, probably the most startling thing that I found in this report was that among people who have these hospital contacts, for example, people who visited an emergency department in the week before death, about one in seven of them actually left the emergency department before medically advised. So before they had been formally discharged and seen a physician. And for those who are admitted to hospital in that week before death, about a quarter of them actually left hospital before being formally discharged. And that really shows that there's something happening within our hospital system where people aren't getting the care or the services or the support that. They need, which means they actually have to leave before they get the care that they've gone to that hospital to seek. And that's going to be really dangerous for people. For their substance use, but also just around their health care needs in general when the systems that they're having to rely on, like our emergency departments are not set up to meet their needs.

NK: But those, those kinds of departures could happen even if the team was able to try to stop them, right?

TG: It can happen for all kinds of reasons. We've done a lot of work, you know, speaking with people who use drugs about those experiences, and they often talk about, you know, not being able to get their next dose of methadone or whatever treatment they're receiving. And so, they're worried about going into withdrawal. And they've been waiting in an emergency department for hours. So, they have to leave to go and get that treatment. Or they're going into withdrawal because they're not able to use the drugs that they typically rely on, and so they have to leave. Or they're not believed in terms of why they've come to hospital, the pain or the symptoms they're experiencing. And they feel judged and stigma. And so, they leave. And so, I think that there are a number of reasons that can influence this. And, and we can work with our hospitals to try and help provide them with the training and the resources they need to integrate these services more fully.

NK: It is, I think, safe to say, Tara, that there is widespread agreement, whether you're in Ontario or across this country, that this problem is getting worse, that more people are dying. What there isn't agreement on, as you well know, is how to deal with what is happening and what is continuing to happen. In Ontario, the province is closing supervised drug consumption sites and turning them into what the province calls homelessness and addiction recovery hubs. In British Columbia last year, we saw that public possession was re-criminalized as part of its pilot project on decriminalization. So, what do you make of those developments?

TG: It's a very difficult time to be working in this space because many of those developments really feel like we're taking steps backwards. I think from this work that we released today, as well as some of our previous work, we've shown that treatment is really important. And having accessible, low-barrier treatment for people with opioid use disorder and other types of substance use is really important. And there's nothing wrong with having ongoing investments into that. But, at the same time, we have to remember that, you know, up to a third of people who are dying of a substance-related overdose don't actually have a diagnosis of a substance use disorder. They wouldn't be eligible for treatment. They're likely using drugs more recreationally or intermittently. And so, we need to think about a broader set of responses that can meet the varied people in their circumstances where they're at and not assume that treatment will be a panacea that will, you know, be the right choice for everybody. Because based on the evidence and the data that we see across Ontario, that's simply not the case.

NK: Tara, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

TG: Thank you so much for having me.

CH: That's Tara Gomes with the Ontario Drug Policy Research Network in Toronto.

[jaunty instrumental]

Winnipeg Firefighter In L.A.

CH: He was supposed to be on vacation. But a visit with his girlfriend's family in Los Angeles turned into another day on the job for Romeo Petit, a 22-year veteran firefighter from Winnipeg -- who found himself swept up in the battle against the blaze yesterday.

SOUNDCLIP

ROMEO PETIT: We were out shopping, and we get this call from her friend, and she said, we have to evacuate. The fire is right on the mountain where she lives. She just lives in the foothills of the San Gabriel Mountains. So, we bolted there as quick as we could. And we can see the fire on the mountain. And I've never seen a fire that big in my life. I've been a firefighter, like, 22 years. And it was just, it was surreal to see that. We managed to get to the house, gathered whatever we could, packed it in their car. Made it down the hill. The orange glow is all around us. It was, it was, it was pretty, pretty scary stuff. And we got down to a safe place. And then, I decided to [chuckle] go back up the mountain, up the hill there to, because I figured let's go and see if we can maybe help out the residents because the fire department was so overwhelmed. So, we got up to, back to where we were, and we tried to put out as many hotspots, embers. We found some hoses, and it was incredible, actually, to be, to be in there. And I knew we had a little bit of time to do that type of work. [chuckle] And then, we were just about to leave because it was getting a little dangerous. And we noticed one of her neighbours, his house was on fire. And I said, well, let's see if we can put some water on the part that didn't have the fire on it. And so, we, we, I'd gotten on top of the roof. It was a flat roof. It wasn't that very high. And we just started to put some water on it with garden hoses and whatever we can have. My friend Adam was there. Melissa was there helping. I mean, we're all trying to do our part just to, to help out and fight these fires. We did what we could. We put out what we could put out, and then we went back down the hill, and all we can see is a glow of orange behind us. It was, it was pretty scary stuff.

RILEY LAYCHUCK: What is going through your mind as, as you're helping put out some of these hotspots with hoses, helping people get out of there?

RP: What's going through my mind is these poor people who are going through this. And you see houses are burning. And I've, I've been through it in Winnipeg. I've seen people have their house burnt down, and it's devastating. It's, it's, it's a loss, right? So, all I'm doing is maybe if I can help just one person, just trying to help people, right? That's what we do.

CH: Winnipeg Fire Department Lieutenant Romeo Petit speaking to reporter Riley Laychuck on Information Radio in Winnipeg today.

[vocalization]

Whitehorse Banana Mystery

Guest: Lewis Rifkind

CH: It's a conundrum that confounds Beeston, Nottinghamshire to this day -- ever since we told you about it on Tuesday. It could be the plot of a Sherlock Holmes story entitled The Mystery of the Peeled Bananas Left at the Corner of Abbey Road and Wensor Avenue. That's a bit long and a little expository. Anyway, earlier this week, we spoke with Cassie Brummit, who lives in Beeston and is among those who've noticed a bowl of peeled bananas showing up at the same intersection in her British town on the second day of every month. She told us it's been going on for years. She has questions... and theories.

SOUNDCLIP

CASSIE BRUMMIT: Yeah, I mean, I did, I did wonder as I walked past what the purpose was, and I kind of wondered if it was a maybe a sentimental thing, like, I don't know, like a superstition. Maybe, like, sometimes people leave out, like, bits of food for fairies at the end of the garden, for example.

CH: Obviously, Ms. Brummit can only speculate at this point -- Which is also the situation Jenny MacKinnon is in. She got in touch after we aired that interview -- writing, quote, "[it] reminded me about Banana Corner, aka Banana Island, aka Banana Bandit in Whitehorse, Yukon. There are several posts about it on local Facebook pages. For years, someone or someones have been throwing out their banana peel at the stop sign on North Klondike highway at the junction with Alaska highway. It's a known fact by most locals....with zero context or anyone fessing up. Maybe local CBC journalists know more about it. Another silly banana mystery." Unquote. Well, Ms. MacKinnon, if by "silly" you meant "very serious", you're right. So, we figured it was incumbent upon us to do exactly as you suggested and check in with our local colleagues. They had...vague recollections of said Banana Corner/Island/Bandit. But they had a feeling a local named Lewis Rifkind would know more. We reached Mr. Rifkind in Whitehorse.

NK: Lewis, Banana Island, Banana Corner, can you describe it for us?

LEWIS RIFKIND: Sure. It's, in Whitehorse, there's the, the main highway going through is the Alaska Highway. And there's a "T" intersection at the north end of town where the North Klondike Highway intersects the Alaska Highway. But it's called the Mayo Road because the road, if you take the right turns, does take you to Mayo, Yukon. And at this intersection, there's a small little traffic island with a stop sign on it. And over the years, in fact, decades, I would say, there has always been discarded banana peels that have been flung at this stop sign. And they just sort of lie there. And people refer to it as the Mayo Road Banana Peel Flinger. [NK laughs] And, actually, if you go on social media and type that in as a hashtag, you'll see photos of the, so, to be fair, I think I'm the only one that's ever used Mayo Road Banana Flinger as a hashtag. [both laugh]

NK: Trying to get that going. So, there are a couple of key differences from the British banana mystery we were talking about in our listeners heard another clip of. You know, in that case, it's, it's the second day of every month. And it's the bananas themselves that have been peeled -- no peels in sight. And in your case, it's, it's just all peels. You know, less quirky offering and just littering by, by what I see.

LR: Yeah Well, okay, now, this is where it gets a little bit convoluted. It's not litter in the sense that, you know how often when you go down a road, people throw out pop cans or candy wrappers or things like that.

NK: Sure. Horrible, yeah.

LR: This is a banana peel. And in the grand scheme of things, you know, it's healthy. You want people to eat bananas, right? [NK chuckles] I mean, it's part of your five a day, you know, fruits and veggies and all that sort of stuff. So, and it's just concentrated in one area. It's, it's done on purpose. And nowhere else do you see this sort of thing, at least along that stretch of road. So, someone or someones is doing this intentionally.

NK: Intentionally to send a message or just, it's intentionally it's part of their routine and they don't care? [chuckling]

LR: Well, this is where we sort of get, you know, start going down the road of conspiracy theories. [both chuckling]

NK: Would never dream of it, Lewis.

LR: [chuckling] There is a theory that it might have started, you know, way back when the city of Whitehorse introduced composting. You know, you have a green wheelie bin for each household and you put your organic waste in it and it gets taken away and turned into compost. Is this a form of libertarianism that's sort of like, hey, it's my banana peel and I will not bow down to big government. I will do what I want with it. I mean, it could be something just as mundane as you don't want, you know, a banana peel in your car. It'll stink up the car, right? So, they're just trying to get rid of it as quickly as possible. And also, maybe it is just routine that this person, you know, who has a banana perhaps every day or whatever, whenever they come to town, and it's they've just gotten into the habit of flinging it.

NK: You mentioned, you mentioned your hashtag, the memes, there's been, I think, one Halloween costume at least. There's also, there was a reward. One of our producers was looking back 2021, WildWise Yukon, they said in a newsletter, quote, what is with the banana peels at the junction? If you can answer this question and make it stop, we will give you a super rad WildWise hoodie and $50, unquote. [LR chuckles] Who knows if that offer still stands? It's been years. But are there any efforts in all of those posts that, that people are actually trying to solve this mystery.

LR: To find the perpetrator, [ bothchuckle] there are a couple of ideas floating around. One of which would be, I mean, this this would involve a lot of privacy breaches, but there aren't that many people up here. But if we could find out or, you know, go to the hospital and get everyone with, you know, their low iron levels, [both laugh] we would figure out who's eating a lot of bananas. And then there's the other idea of you get the police to sit at the intersection, start eating a banana, and then drive north.

NK: Oh my!

LR: By the time that they finish their banana, somewhere in that neighbourhood would be the perpetrator. But I suspect the police have probably got better things to do with their time.

NK: I mean, yes, I think, I think you're definitely right about that. Do you want this mystery to be solved? Would you miss the peels if they weren't there?

LR: Yeah, I would miss the peels. In fact, occasionally, when I go by, there are no banana peels. And I, you know, people ask like, I hope the person's all right. [both laughing] Maybe they're sick. You know, maybe they've been in a traffic accident. It's a little bit quirky, I would argue. I wouldn't say it's a tourist attraction, but a lot of people do --

NK: Whitehorse has more to offer, for sure, than the banana peels.

LR: But, you know, it's one of many things that makes the place, you know, living up here so enjoyable. And it's sort of one of those things I look forward to each time I bike out there.

NK: Lewis, thank you for this.

LR: Oh, you're welcome.

CH: Lewis Rifkind is a Whitehorse resident and chronicler of the banana island at the intersection of North Klondike highway and Alaska highway. And please keep your eyes peeled for any banana or fruit-related mysteries and let us know at our Talkback number: 416-205-5687 or send us an email: aih@cbc.ca.

[diner rock?]

FOA: Old Wolf

CH: Nine-oh-seven-F won't be showing up this spring with another litter of pups. The one-eyed wolf was something of a celebrity at Yellowstone National Park. She was the Alpha of her pack, and one of only six wolves there that researchers had documented living beyond the age of eleven. During her lifetime, she gave birth to what may have been 10 litters of pups, including one just last year. But late last month, 907-F and a group of those pups were attacked by a neighbouring pack. Nine-oh-seven-F was injured. And she died of those injuries on Christmas Day. From last June, here's Kira Cassidy with the Yellowstone Wolf Project telling Nil what made 907-F so special.

SOUNDCLIP

KC: I think she's a very fascinating wolf. She has persisted for so long. Almost, it's like three or four times longer than most wolves live. And she just seems to be such a steadfast feature out there that even though I kind of have expected for years to hear her collar switch into mortality, which indicates she hasn't moved for about six hours. So, I kind of expected that more and more as the years have gone on. And she just keeps going out there. [NK chuckles] And she's alive and healthy. And so, she surprises me all the time -- which just means that I'm just less surprised every day that she is still out there.

NK: Why do you think she's lived such a long and productive life so far?

KC: So she, when she was about three years old, she inherited her territory from her aunt when her aunt died. And so, she is one of probably only a few wolves that never had to disperse and leave her home territory to start a new pack. So she just has been able to live in the same territory her entire life. She also has lived in a pretty large pack for most of her life -- which helps because it lowers the chances that she is going to be killed by one of the neighbouring packs. That is the number one cause of mortality of wolves in Yellowstone. But she also just has a tonne of experience that has increased her odds of survival. Even if it's a small thing like where to cross the road safely or where to cross the river, and also how to avoid humans.

NK: Are you, are you thinking about next spring? Do you think that 907-F will appear before you with yet another litter?

KC: In studying wolves -- there are just so many of them that die very young. They just don't live for very long -- three to four years on average. And so, we really just kind of celebrate the day-to-day. And that does seem to be a bit closer to the way that wolves live their lives. They wake up every day or every evening and kind of take the attitude that it's a good day because I'm here.

CH: From Our Archives, that was Kira Cassidy with the Yellowstone Wolf Project talking to Nil about the wolf 907-F in June. Nine-oh-seven-F has died after being attacked by wolves from a neighboring pack.

[ambient]

Part 3: Jimmy Carter Funeral

P.E.I. Oil Leak Bill

CH: When Betty and Kenny Waite's furnace stopped working, they assumed it was because the oil tank was empty. So they got it filled up. And the next morning, they awoke in a house that reeked of oil; the entire tank's worth had leaked out under their Sherbrooke, P.E.I. home. It turned out that the spill wasn't covered by their insurance. The Waites contacted the province's environment department, which sent representatives to evaluate the situation. The province then hired contractors who cleaned up the property last summer. After which the Waites got a bill for $345,915. And since insurance won't pay, the province has put a lien on their home. Betty Waite told the CBC what happened after a representative from the provincial department of the environment showed up to evaluate the situation.

SOUNDCLIP

BETTY WAITE: The spill happened around the 18th of September. They were out around the first week of October, I think, and took samples. And then, she got back to us later to say, yes, there's definitely oil, a very heavy amount of oil in your, in the ground, but you guys are responsible to have that cleaned up. And I said, we can't afford to do that. We're seniors. We're living on a set income. I said that's not going to happen.

STEVE BRUCE: And finally, they show up in June and start the work. And you still didn't have any, any clear answers. And can you describe what you saw happening here and the work that they did?

BW: Well, they just basically started, like, they come in, they did all their testing or whatever, and then they started digging on the outside of the house and hauled the soil away. Now, they told us they removed 657 tonnes of soil out of there. And then, they come and tell us we had this $350,000 bill. I'm thinking, what do you mean? Like, they told us it wasn't going to cost us anything. Well, I don't know who told you that, but, no, you can't. It has to be paid.

SB: What did you think when you saw that number -- $345,000ish?

BW: Well, I guess we'll die in this house because we won't be able to afford to sell it, you know? Hopefully, we'll be healthy enough to stay here, but.

SB: Yeah, what's your sense of how having a lien on the house does change things for you? What's the impact?

BW: Well, we can't go anywhere. Like, we're stuck here now. We can't sell it. We can't afford to travel because we got this lien on the house. That's going to take every cent that we got.

SB: How does that leave you feeling to, to say that, that just how much uncertainty there is now and how much it kind of throws a wrench into your plans?

BW: I, I can't explain it. It's just, it's a lot. And I just keep my fingers crossed that the government will give us a clear picture of what's going to happen.

CH: That was Betty Waite of Sherbrooke, P.E.I., talking to reporter Steve Bruce.

[indie rock]

Jimmy Carter Funeral

Guest: Robert Hunter

CH: It was a cold day in the U.S. Capitol today -- where hundreds filled Washington National Washington for the funeral of President Jimmy Carter -- who died on December 29th, at the age of 100. Among the speakers at the late president's funeral today was his grandson, Jason Carter.

SOUNDCLIP

JASON CARTER: They spent four years in the governor's mansion and four years at the White House. But the other 92 years [laughter] they spent at home in Plains, Georgia. And one of the best ways to demonstrate that they are regular folks is to take them by that home. First of all, it looks like they might have built it themselves. [laughter] Second of all, my grandfather was likely to show up at the door in some '70s short shorts and Crocs. And demonstrating their Depression era roots, they had a little rack next to the sink where they would hang Ziploc bags to dry. [laughter] They were small-town people who never forgot who they were and where they were from, no matter what happened in their lives. But I recognize that we are not here because he was just a regular guy. As you've heard from the other speakers, his political life and his presidency for me was not just ahead of its time. It was prophetic. He had the courage and strength to stick to his principles, even when they were politically unpopular.

CH: That was Jason Carter, talking about his grandfather, President Jimmy Carter, at his funeral today. Robert Hunter was there to pay his respects. Mr. Hunter was a senior member of the National Security Council under Jimmy Carter, from 1977 to 1981. We reached him in Washington, D.C.

NK: Robert Hunter, when you heard that in-person today, were you nodding in the cathedral, I wonder? Does that line out with the Jimmy Carter you worked with and knew.

ROBERT HUNTER: Oh, absolutely. Particularly the line he never forgot where he came from, which is a rarity among many politicians and certainly many U.S. presidents. And he did not have an ounce of prejudice in him about anything, which was, which was extraordinary.

NK: That was reflected in the services as well today, both in the speakers, but also what they said. If we were to go back to when you first met Jimmy Carter in 1975, do you remember what struck you most?

RH: Well, [chuckling] at the time, I was working for Ted Kennedy, Senator Ted Kennedy, who had taken himself out of the race. But as far as we were concerned, he was going to be president, right? Or should be president. And this non-entity southern governor showed up and saw the senator, Ted Kennedy, and then came around and met all the staff. And he stuck out his paw and he said, hi, my name is Jimmy Carter and I'm running for president. And we all thought, who's this guy? He doesn't have a chance of being president! But, of course, he then surprised everybody and earned the position. And as I got to know him later, realized that just how lucky we were to have him and what an extraordinary human being he was.

NK: What kind of bar do you think Jimmy Carter set for presidents that followed? What changed with him?

RH: Well, the social Washington, the glitzy part of Washington, never liked him because he didn't play to it. He was an outsider. He was a Georgian. He was a peanut farmer. But in terms of things that you would like to see in a president or a leader, he was a man who entered, almost introduced human rights to the centrality of American politics, which is something we're very much worried about now, which is America's moral standing in the world. And he was a person who always wanted to do the right thing. And most often, did it even when it was not the right thing to do politically. And nowadays, people would say, I wish we had more leaders like that.

NK: Given his, his focus on human rights, he was in favor of a two-state solution in the Middle East. He was in favor of Palestinian rights, certainly. He advocated for that. Given all of that, but his other accomplishments while, while in office for, for that one term, when you saw him last, a couple of years ago, I believe, was he reflecting at all about where the world is at now, where the United States is at now? How was he feeling about that?

RH: Well, he was very cautious of, like good presidents are, ex-presidents, very cautious about not criticizing his successors. But he did occasionally have to say something about former and future President Trump. But generally, he talked about what he sought out to happen in the world and in the nation without personalizing it. He was not somebody who played at dirty politics. But it wasn't just people saying, oh, he was too much for human rights, but he was also built up military defence when he needed to against the Russians, worked for arms control, he got the Camp David Accords and the, the Egyptian-Israel Peace Treaty, which is the fundament for security in the Middle East today. Even though some of the powers there, particularly Israel, have been working against that. But Carter created a fundamental effort in it all by himself.

NK: Beyond that, that agreement, certainly, his time in office is, is, is will forever be linked to the Iran hostage crisis as well. The hostages were eventually released. But how it all unfolded, what it took to secure that release, many point to that as, as being a key factor in the fact that President Carter did not secure a second term. How do you look back at that time?

RH: Well, everybody will have their own opinion in my mind, which I had at the time and continue to have, was that for the people who wanted to defeat him, they see Reagan and all that, it was kind of icing on the cake. He was a symbol of what looked like America not being as strong as it should be. But one has to realize that Carter inherited a very bad economy. He had the energy crisis. He had a number of crises economically around the world, and that led to inflation, which was about 12 per cent. Unemployment was 11 per cent, and interest rates were about 15 per cent. That's a double-digit in all three of those. And those are the things that defeated him.

NK: Let me ask you, Robert, you wrote earlier this month that, quote, the nation needs to be thankful to Jimmy Carter for his key role in melding security and moral interests. And you go on to say you hope the incoming administration will take those lessons to heart. If they don't, what are your concerns for your country?

RH: Well, one thing, our nation was founded on very particular view of our society in the world, in particular in the last few decades, which is to be very much interested in our security, but also in human values. And if you can't sell as president of United States to the American people a foreign policy that combines those two factors, you don't really have a foreign policy. And it is, in some ways, it's ironic that Carter died when he did, which was between our election and the inauguration, which it sets up a contrast between what a president could be in terms of human considerations and where we fear that Trump may not be based on where he has been in the past. Because as illustrated, even for a lot of his enemies, you know, we were lucky to have him as president.

NK: Robert Hunter, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

RH: Thank you. Take care.

CH: Robert Hunter worked as a senior member of the National Security Council under Jimmy Carter. He's in Washington, D.C.

[chiptune]

FOA: ‘Breaking Bad’ House

CH: If you were a fan of the show Breaking Bad, then right now you may be picturing Bryan Cranston -- possibly in his underpants -- as the meth-making high school chemistry teacher Walter White. You may also be picturing the outside of Walter White's home -- a modest suburban Albuquerque bungalow. And that scene where a frustrated Walter White throws an entire pizza on his roof. Now, that home actually exists, and real people live in it. They've been living in it for nearly 52 years. But they're at their breaking point with Breaking Bad fans. For years, the family that owns the house has been dealing with droves of those fans. Most people just want to look at the outside. But some want to re-enact that pizza scene. And after years of dealing with devotees on their street and pizzas on their roof, the family has decided enough is enough. They've put the house up for sale. And they're hoping to get 10 ten times what it's apparently worth -- listing it at four million dollars U.S. In 2017, our former host Carol Off spoke with local tour guide Frank Sandoval about the pizza problem.

SOUNDCLIP

CO: Frank, how long have you and this family had to deal with these “Breaking Bad” fans throwing pizzas on their rooftop?

FRANK SANDOVAL: You know it actually started right after I would say midway through season four. Prior to that, you know it was coming up to speed. And you know I would say right about midway through season four we noticed. And we started doing tours about six months after the finale in season five. We worked on the show, our tours are run by people who actually worked on the show. And so we had met them and you know we built a very good friendship and a relationship with them and we noticed that it seems to get more popular as years go by. So I would say about two-and-a-half years ago is when they really started noticing.

CO: And how often do pizzas get hurled onto the roof?

FS: Well you know I think the word is out don't go there now, becayse they're well in tune. I would say probably the last time that we pulled the pizza down was about you know a couple of months ago. We actually pulled up and we saw some people who had just tossed the pizza on the roof. And I literally chased them down to get their license plate, but you know I couldn't catch them. But what ended up happening is the owner of the house actually caught a couple of people and made them get rid of the pizza and actually made them sit on the sidewalk. And you know she was going to call the police because I mean it's just getting ridiculous. I mean people just throwing pizzas on the roof. And it didn't stop with pizzas. And so I would say it's a regular basis. And you know a couple of months ago, we did a pull five pizzas off the roof. We carry a ladder on our RV, because they're an elderly couple and what we did is we actually climbed on top and there were three older pizzas sitting in the back of the roof that they didn't see.

CO: Now, do “Breaking Bad” fans realize that this is a real house that a real couple lives in?

FS: You know about 95 to 97 per cent of the people are very good. They have distinguished a correlation to reality and fiction. And so they're very good ant they're very respectable. It’s that three to five per cent of folks that you know really don't get it. I don't know if they just you know think the show is real, they have the intent to just say I'm going to do this and no I'm going to stop me and go throw a pizza. And it doesn't even stop there, she actually has had people park in the driveway just to take their picture with their car in front. And then she would come out and tell them to move and they would get very upset and they would refuse to move. And in some instances, they actually had to tell people to leave and call the police because they were free to move their car. So it's went from pizzas, to cars, to rocks — people taking rocks from the front yard. I know one time I pulled up and we had a full tour, I saw a guy on the property and the homeowners weren't home. And he was putting rocks in bags and refused to move. So you know we literally, physically removed him and called the police.

CO: He was just collecting souvenirs?

FS: I don't know why they take rocks? One person told me they saw a saw one on e-bay that was supposedly signed by Bryan Cranston. And I know this for a fact; they never signed rocks at the house. So if you're buying stuff off e-bay you know those guys didn't sign any rocks as far as we know, so they could be making it up just to make money.

CO: Now it seems that the family — the couple — has decided the only thing to do is to put up a great big, huge six-foot fence around the whole house.

FS: yeah, you know I mean it's sad that it has to come to that. But you know now they're fearing for their safety when you can't even sit down and have dinner and someone's looking in your window. They have enough signs that say please stay off the property. But, like I said, it's at three to five per cent that challenges it and wants to do it anyways. And we don't know why they do that? And so, at this point, you know that they've actually decided to put up a fence all the way around the house. And you know I actually looked up have other film locations had the same issue? And “The Goonies” house, they had to put up a wall and they put up a tarp. “The Sopranos” house had the same issue. And so it's unfortunate, but it happens I guess.

CO: Well, as you point out, there are those people who can't distinguish between a television show. Of course, I mean these days you know life does seem like one big reality show, doesn't it?

FS: It does. I mean you're not kidding me with everything going on. It's like living a reality show. I tell my wife I said are you sure we're not in a big giant movie like “The Truman Show”? You know it's just amazing you know to see you know how there are a few fans that can take it to a level that could be unhealthy.

CO: All right, Frank, we'll leave it there. I’ll let you get back to your tour. Thanks so much.

FS: Thank you guys so much. Thank you. We really appreciate you guys. Thank you so much.

CO: Bye bye.

CH: From Our Archives, that was our former host Carol Off speaking with Frank Sandoval, about how people kept throwing pizzas on the roof of the home that was used in Breaking Bad. Now, because of overzealous fans, the owners of the home have decided to put it up for sale -- for four million dollars U.S.

[ambient]

B.C. Fire Guest

CH: Every year, firefighting departments across Canada try to spread the message about wildfire prevention, especially in high-risk regions. Most wildfires in Canada are started by lightning, but they can also be started by people. For example: people who don't discard their cigarette butts properly. The fire service on Pender Island, British Columbia is trying to address that problem with a comedy video series called Butt Tracker. And even landed actor Bruce Greenwood to star as the main culprit. Todd Bulled is the captain of Pender Island Fire Rescue and also stars in Butt Tracker. He told the CBC about the series.

SOUNDCLIP

TODD BULLED: Well, most of the fire safety messaging that we do here is kind of a stumper for me in terms of making it entertaining. So, you know, we're sitting around the table one morning with my colleagues trying to come up with a way to get this messaging out and kind of brainstorming. And that was the idea. We're going to make this spoof on this firefighter that gets busted down to this kind of menial assignment. And he takes it overly seriously, trying to track down these people that are discarding cigaret butts on, on the island.

GREGOR CRAIGIE: Now, I mentioned Bruce Greenwood. How did you get Bruce Greenwood involved with this?

TB: Well, we, we know Bruce from, he's occasionally in the community, and we always joked around with him that we would love to have him in some of our content. And when we were making these episodes, we were at the stage where we needed to kind of come up with the villain. So, out of the blue, I just sent him a message [GC chuckles] and just said, hey, we're doing this. You want to be in? And he surprisingly said yes. [chuckling]

GC: Well, good for him. That's, so he, and he plays a pretty good villain, doesn't he?

TB: He does a great, yeah, I would say it's one of his best, his best roles, for sure. [both chuckle]

GC: How much did he actually help in the production here?

TB: Oh, it was, it was incredible. Because, I mean, obviously he, he appeared in a couple of episodes, but he spent, I would say, a good week with us, really walking us through the whole process of, of producing and editing of a film. And it was incredible. He, we kind of give him the credit, obviously, for taking our content to the next level with all the help that he gave us. It was, it was amazing.

GC: Now, of course, and I know you don't need to be told this, you know this better than I do, that wildfire is a serious issue. And we're all hearing on World Report this morning and seeing images of Los Angeles burning right now. What do you hope people take away from, from the videos on the serious side of things?

TB: I mean, I would say when we talk about wildfire, there, you know, often wildfires are, the starts are preventable. So, we know that human-caused wildfires are a big part of the start, along with lightning, which we can't prevent. But there is some steps to take to prevent that. And there's also things you can do on your own property to prepare it so that you can lessen the impact of wildfires in the region.

CH: That was Todd Bulled, captain of Pender Island Fire Rescue, speaking to Gregor Craigie, host of On the Island in Victoria today.

[ambient]

LR: Banished Words

CH: In no uncertain terms, you told us about terms you're very uncertain about. On last night's program we told you about Lake Superior State University's annual list of banished words -- which, this year, includes "cringe", "gamechanger", and "utilize". And when we asked for any words or phrases you would like to see banished, well we were not shocked that you had opinions -- or that you utilized a variety of devices to send them our way. From our inbox: Seth Levinson cast his vote for -- or against -- the expression "quite frankly". Bruce Jepsen from Greenwood B.C. wanted to let us know he can't stand the word "kudos" and suggests "way to go" as a less-irritating option. A number of you wrote in to complain about variations on the expression "going forward" which Donald McWilliams in Montreal described as a, quote, "CBC favourite". We'll make a note of that, going -- in the future. And a significant number of you really dislike the word "fulsome" -- which means "excessive to the point of insincerity", not just "a lot". And Toni Ellwand's email began with this question: "When did ‘bad actor’ start making the rounds? As a professional actor myself since 1984, I take umbrage at my professional moniker being slung around like a cheap pizza and used for anything and anyone in such a disparaging way. Why don’t we use, say, bad doctor or bad politician or bad social media tycoon?" That’s a valid question, Toni. And, you know, people really shouldn't sling cheap pizzas around. We also heard from Talkback.

SOUNDCLIP

[Talkback beep]

CHRIS THOMAS: Hi, this is Chris Thomas, and I live in downtown Toronto. The word that I find most overused is incredible. It is as though many people, even many broadcasters, actually can no longer think of complimentary adjectives other than incredible.

[talkback beep]

CALLER: Hello. People being interviewed, they start their sentences with I mean, I'm constantly hearing people say, I mean, and then they go into their statement. I mean is totally unnecessary.

[talkback beep]

VICTORIA LEWIS: Victoria Lewis, Stratford. Words I don't want to hear. I don't want to hear a Canadian politician say the word robust.

[talkback beep]

JIM JARVIS: It's Jim Jarvis from Oakville. Words that need to go. You know, when you're talking to somebody and they really know what you're talking about, and they really agree, and they say, right?!

[talkback beep]

JJ: Hey, Nil and Chris, it's Jim Jarvis again from Oakville with the frustration with the word right. Maybe don't play it on air because I have a lot of friends that say that, and I don't really want to, you know, have them hear that. I don't really love it.

CH: We…we never played it, Jim. A few of your calls to our Talkback line. If you didn't hear the word or words you want banned, call us at 416-205-5687, or email us at aih@cbc.ca.

[funk rock]

Morning Coffee Benefits

CH: Absolutely scalding hot; I think I just poached my tongue. But I really needed a coffee. I haven't had one in twelve minutes. Is that bad? Well, yes and no. And yes and no and no and also yes. Over the years we've learned that coffee is good for your health because it's loaded with antioxidants. Among other reasons. But it's bad for your health because it can increase anxiety and disrupt sleep. Among other reasons. It's confusing, and agitating, especially after a, you know, a bunch of coffee. Well, thanks to a new study, a fresh take on coffee is percolating into public awareness: a long-term study of more than 40,000 adults showed that the coffee drinkers were 16 per cent less likely to die of any cause over the 10 years they were followed than non-coffee drinkers. The coffee drinkers were also 31 per cent less likely to die from cardiovascular disease. These benefits were especially pronounced for moderate coffee drinkers -- roughly two to three cups a day. So, no reason to deny myself this second cup!

[the same drinking sounds]

CH: Ow, my tonsils! Okay, now, the researchers found that it's not just how much coffee you drink that makes a difference but when you drink it. To reap benefits to heart health you must drink your coffee in the morning. Otherwise, the benefits disappear. Wait, really? Dang it. Well, it's 10 AM somewhere! But from now on, I'll try to confine my coffee drinking to the first part of the day. Because apparently it's for all of us to wake up and smell the coffee.

The AIH Transcript For January 09, 2025

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