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The AIH transcript for January 06, 2025

For more episodes of this podcast, please click this link.

NIL KÖKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

NK: The calls were coming from inside the House. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau bows to pressure and announces his resignation as Liberal party leader. A cabinet minister and friend tells us how he believes Trudeau's tenure will be remembered.

CH: He's off, and now they're off. The PM's departure triggers a leadership race for the languishing Liberal party. A strategist tells us some potential candidates already have a lead.

NK: The offence after his defense. A Capitol Police sergeant who was injured on January 6th, 2021 tells us what it feels like to see Donald Trump heading back to the Oval Office.

CH: And then there was a nun. An advocate for women's ordination is pleased that the Pope has appointed a nun to a historically important role -- and says she still believes that the Catholic Church is capable of full inclusion.

NK: Love at first plight. After a fire destroys a newly opened romance bookstore in the D.C. area, readers come together to show it some love -- but will the story have a happy ending?

CH: And...not ready for primate time. A mathematician says an infinite number of monkeys could not, in fact, type out all of Shakespeare over infinite time. So what are we supposed to do with all these typewriters?

CH: As It Happens, the Monday Edition. Radio that wishes for a deus ex macaque-ina

Part 1: Marc Miller, Lib Leadership Race, Bookstore Fire,

Marc Miller

Guest: Marc Miller

CH: Justin Trudeau is hanging up his gloves. In Ottawa this morning, the prime minister stepped up to a cold outdoor microphone to make an announcement that will mark the end of an era in Canadian politics. An announcement that many in the Liberal caucus had been demanding for months.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: As you all know, I am a fighter. And I am not someone who backs away from a fight. Particularly in a fight as important as this one is. But I have always been driven by my love for Canada, by my desire to serve Canadians, and by what is in the best interests of Canadians. And Canadians deserve a real choice in the next election. And it has become obvious to me with the internal battles that I cannot be the one to carry the Liberal standard into the next election.

CH: Justin Trudeau announcing his plans to resign as Liberal Leader. Marc Miller is Prime Minister Trudeau's immigration minister and a longtime personal friend. We reached him in Ottawa.

NK: Minister Miller, this appeared to be an emotional day for the prime minister, certainly this morning. Is it for you?

MARC MILLER: And I think it is for a lot of people who care deeply about the prime minister. That includes a lot of Canadians. That the decision that was taken today by the prime minister was not an easy one, it was the right one, however. And I spent a lot of time with him recently, talking about what the future looks like. And every conversation I've had has turned about, turned around the impact that this can have on Canadians, his love for Canada, and not things that people easily talk about like legacy or future or whatever.

NK: Right.

MM: Prime Minister cares deeply about Canadians. And his decision today reflects that. And it was the right one for the nation. So, you know, as much as you try to disassociate that intellectual kind of a reflection, it is emotional. I think it's emotional. People are humans. The prime minister's human. He's in a serene space, but not without some remorse and some regrets.

NK: Yeah, he did mention, he did mention regrets, some of the things that he might be thinking about giving up that fight, particularly when he would have been fighting Pierre Poilievre in particular. How much of the difficulty came from that for, for him?

MM: You know, I think two years ago, he was in a, probably in a different mindset with, you know, personal relationship matters. You know, where he was going to lead his country in relation to that particular moment he was going through. The thought of a guy that is as gutless and classless as Pierre Poilievre taking the reins of this country, I think reinvigorated him, made it, made him want to fight for his country, for Canadians. And, you know, you can't fault a guy for going an extra couple rounds. His courage, his determination, he still has the fight in him. And I think you'll see him play the role that he needs to play in the next election, just not as leader of the Liberal Party.

NK: But did that, that desire to fight, did that desire to fight and the opponent he would have been up against, did that become a weakness? Did he stay on too long?

MM: Well, if, if love for your country and love for Canadians is a weakness then I think it's one he'd gladly concede. You know, people are humans, after all. They take time to take decisions. I think, in a smart way, he knew and he mentioned it today he didn't want to be fighting a battle on two fronts. I think he cares more about Canada and our relationship with the U.S., particularly with impending tariffs that could be crippling for the economy. People could be facing job losses in the next 100 days as Mr. Trump starts, starts his presidency. That is something of deep concern to him, and his decision today to stay on for that period of time until we choose the next leader, I think, is very important. We don't need instability, we don't need an election, and we need the ability to have a robust response by Canada should the U.S. impose tariffs on us and people frankly start to lose jobs. Now, that pales in comparison to internal party squabbles. The work that we need to do with the party is stuff that is important because the Liberal Party is an important voice for a lot of Canadians in this country and we need to do a better job to, to reflect those voices and speak to more people and have a leader that we can all unite around. There has been some damage and there's been damage done to the party. Justin Trudeau Leaving his leadership will not solve all of them. And as leaders within the party, we need to sort that out, ideally privately, over the course of the next few days and a potential leadership race where we can pick a new leader to unify around.

NK: The prime minister, used the word reset in his comments, in his remarks this morning. A reset or a time of transition, it can certainly be invigorating, but it can also be a destructive and debilitating, debilitating time. Are you worried about what this is going to mean? Are you worried about your party's future?

MM: You know, yes, I think as difficult as I have been on some of my colleagues, I do respect them profoundly. I do think we'll pick the right decision. The prime minister realized he was a lightning rod for a lot of things that have very little to do with him and removed himself from the equation. Now we have to sort these things out ourselves. That is something that won't come without some difficulty. I think we need to have a robust democratic, democratic, democratic race within the party to discuss the issues, the policies, who is the best to take on Pierre Poilievre? And that can only come with a leadership race that has a diversity of views, sometimes quite differing in nature. And that's something that I'll be fighting for as, as, as a voting member of the Liberal Party.

NK: The language you used to describe Pierre Poilievre just a few moments ago in our conversation seems a bit at odds with the tone the prime minister was trying to strike this morning, saying he hopes that this will, will lead to, you know, I'm not quoting him directly here, but, you know, a time where we can focus on the issues Canadians are worried about. Why did you use that language?

MM: I've heard Pierre Poilievre make some very personal attacks on members of my party, on the prime minister. Ones that are unbecoming of Canadian politics. You know, the language that I use at times, [chuckle] I certainly have a couple of members of my family get a little upset with me. But it's, it's hockey banter. If they can't take that, then they don't deserve to run the country. I think, you know, calling Pierre Poilievre a greasy walrus when he tippy toes with people that dabble in, in right-wing, extreme, sometimes extreme right-wing views, misogynistic views is pretty light stuff. If they kind of take that, then that's a reflection on them. Pierre Poilievre had one chance today to be classy and to rise above, and he just used it as a platform to talk about himself. I think that's the guy that we're seeing. And I think we need to work with the party to get an alternative that is not afraid of him, can punch back, but also can speak to Canadians about what they care about, and that includes a robust policy debate.

NK: Is there someone in your party you are ready to support right now as leader, and if so, who?

MM: No, I'll be looking at what options are out there, who actually presents themselves. You know, lots of people within parties talk about their own political future and their own political fortunes, but it takes a different type of guts to actually put your name out there as the leader and do the organizing, do some difficult things that people don't see, you know, publicly to get people to vote for you. I'll have to see people's ability to, to win over their their hearts and minds and make my choice accordingly. Weighing into this will be the people, will be someone. I think my view will depend on who can speak clearly and reasonably to Canadians and who can take the fight to the Conservatives.

NK: And just finally, in the last few seconds, we have, Minister, when we talk about legacy, what do you think Justin Trudeau's time as prime minister, how will it be remembered?

MM: I think quite positively. You know, there are people today that are lives that wouldn't be alive in any other G7 country based on the decisions we took during COVID. I was, I know that. I was there around the cabinet table when that happened. And the work we've done on reconciliation, not perfect, but strides ahead of what previous governments have been able to do, whether that's boil water advisories or largest transfer of wealth back to Indigenous communities since it was taken from them. The child family benefit, which means that there are kids today that are not living in poverty that were 10 years ago. And that is something, I think, that is super important. And that's without mentioning dental care that there's still work ongoing, and daycare for for kids, which as a result, frees up women for the workforce. And that, I think, is very positive. We're fundamentally a fairer country than we were 10 years ago, something we can be quite proud of.

NK: Minister Miller --

MM: And Canadians will look lightly, will, look, will look well on that.

NK: Minister Miller, thank you for your time.

MM: Thank you.

CH: Marc Miller is the federal immigration minister. We reached him in Ottawa.

[ambient]

Lib Leadership Race

Guest: David Herle

CH: Justin Trudeau's resignation marks the start of a new chapter for the Liberal Party. The prime minister is staying in the job until his successor is chosen. But as the leadership race begins, the Liberals are catastrophically unpopular -- and an election is imminent. David Herle is a political consultant who served as chief strategist for former Liberal Prime Minister Paul Martin. We reached him in Toronto.

NK: David, when you were last on our show back in October when we were speaking, you said that this government Liberal government was heading towards almost certain defeat. Does this announcement from Justin Trudeau change that in your view?

DAVID HERLE: It creates the potential for change. There are a lot of examples in Canadian politics of late-term leadership changes that have resulted in that party winning reelection. So, I don't know that that's going to happen. Maybe things are too far gone with the Liberal Party in this, in this instance, or maybe we don't have the right candidate. But certainly, there was no possibility of a good outcome before Mr. Trudeau's resignation and there is at least the possibility of a better outcome now.

NK: Well, let's talk about potential changemakers, potential candidates. For starters, has anyone tried to hire you yet?

DH: No. [NK chuckles] No. Two things. First of all, it's probably the case that nobody wants me. But secondly, I think everybody's been on their best behaviour, to be honest, up until Mr. Trudeau made this resignation. I'm unaware of anybody who's done much in the way of pre-organization at this point.

NK: Who are you seeing as, as contenders and potential frontrunners so far?

DH: Well, the names are pretty well known. I consider Mélanie Joly to be a frontrunner. She's, I think, handled difficult portfolio, some people would disagree with me, but I think reasonably well. But her biggest attribute is that she has a strong following in Quebec, and that can't really be said about any of the other candidates. Quebec is foundational to Liberal Party support. I think Chrystia Freeland starts off as a frontrunner, and I think she's been helped by the way that she broke with the prime minister. I think that that's put her in a stronger position than she was before. However, she is the candidate of continuity, and that's rarely the choice in leadership races. Mr. Trudeau went out of his way in his statement to make it clear that they had been partners and she'd been with him every step of the way. I don't think he was doing her a favour, and I think he knew it. And the second thing is I don't think she's a tremendously strong public performer.

NK: And what about Mark Carney?

DH: Well, Mark Carney is an intriguing person. Mark Carney is a Pearsonesque figure in Canada. There probably hasn't been anybody since Lester Pearson who's been more prominent on the international stage. He has economic chops, international chops. You can see him dealing with Trump. He's got lots and lots of strengths. What doesn't he have? He's never been in politics before. It's a special skill. It requires a unique set of attributes. It's unclear that he has them. If he does, he's going to make Poilievre's life miserable. If he doesn't, it'll be a short-lived phenomenon.

NK: Speaking of the Conservative leader, Pierre Poilievre, of course, released a statement quite quickly after Justin Trudeau's announcement, and talking about continuity, as you did, suggesting that that's, that's, in his view, a bad thing, saying everyone associated with, with this government has supported, and then he wrote in all caps, EVERYTHING that Justin Trudeau did. So, what do, do all of those contenders need to do to make sure that they don't fall into that trap of those criticisms?

DH: I'd be interested to ask Mr. Poilievre if he supported everything Erin O'Toole advocated because he didn't disavow them. But it's clear he's got a central point, which is Canadians want change. And they, and they will change the party for sure unless the party itself demonstrates change. And I think that you know, you're going to find over the course of the next couple of months, these, these candidates are going to be deading things that have been table stakes in the liberal government. Like I. I can't imagine that any of them are going to propose to move forward with the carbon tax.

NK: Mr. Trudeau in, in his statement talked about a, quote, rigorous, competitive national process to find a new leader. I heard in that, you know, trying to quell any kind of criticism similar to what we saw and heard in the U.S. campaign with Kamala Harris taking over for Joe Biden. Is that what you think he was trying to do there?

DH: Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a push by some people. Mr. Chrétien's former principal secretary, Eddie Goldenberg, sort of foremost among them, to have the caucus make this decision. And not have a full leadership race, have the caucus choose somebody who immediately becomes prime minister, and then, and then goes into an election, then goes into an election this spring. And I do think that Mr. Trudeau was putting his line in the sand that he did not think that should happen. Of course, I think the whole statement gave you the impression that he's got a somewhat dim view of his caucus at the moment. But he thinks there should be a national process and I think there should be a national process because none of the people that are going to run, we talked about Carney, but none of them have demonstrated the breadth of skills and talent required to be a national leader. We're going to have to see them in action. And second of all, whoever the Liberals choose needs to have been validated by a public process, have that legitimacy, and have that, have had that opportunity to connect with people.

NK: Just before we let you go, Health Minister Mark Holland wrote on social media about how he thinks Prime Minister Trudeau will be remembered. The start of affordable childcare, a school food program will be remembered, he says. One of the best pandemic responses in the world during the most challenging of times will be remembered. He talks about hope and heart in the statement as well. How do you think Justin Trudeau will be remembered?

DH: I think it's, it's almost impossible to tell in these circumstances, you know? I think Brian Mulroney is a good example of this. When Brian Mulroney stepped down, his popularity was the lowest anybody had ever recorded in Canada, and his policy record was reviled by Canadians, most specifically the GST. Flash forward 35 years, and, you know, people think that Mr. Mulroney's term in office, which was at the time characterized by scandal, and resignations, and all sorts of kerfuffle, that he had an incredibly impactful record of government. I think it really depends on what ends up with Canada. You know, 25 years later, do we look back and say that national child care was, was an important moment in this country's history? Do we think that COVID management was an important factor in this country's history. If these things remain legacies, then there's things people will write about in the future that have to do with things other than his poll numbers.

NK: David, thank you for your time, as always.

DH: Thank you. It was great talking.

CH: David Herle is a political consultant who served as chief strategist for former Liberal Prime Minister Paul Martin. He's in Toronto.

[heist music?]

Bookstore Fire

Guest: Jamie Fortin

CH: In mid-November, Jamie Fortin held a grand opening at her new business: the D.C. area's first romance bookstore. And just three days later, the doors of "Friends to Lovers" were closed after a fire in the building. But instead of being the end, that turned out to be just another chapter. Ms. Fortin says she couldn't have imagined the support that came next. She received the equivalent of over $65,000 Canadian in donations to rebuild her business. Jamie Fortin is in Los Angeles today. That's where we reached her.

NK: Jamie, it's impossible to hear this story and not think it sounds like part of at least one of the romance novels you would sell in your shop. [Jamie Fortin laughs] Are you writing one as we speak?

JAMIE FORTIN: You know, I leave it to the professionals for that one. [NK laughs]

NK: In fact, when this story was pitched, several of us in the story meeting said, oh, we thought you were, you were going to say that she fell in love [chuckling] at the end of it.

JF: You know, honestly, I've been in a really great, happy relationship for a while. [NK chuckles] And, you know, if I did write a book about us, this would be a major chapter.

NK: Sixty-five thousand dollars Canadian $45,000 U.S. is what you've received just as we record this conversation. It could, it could go up, certainly, through this online fundraiser. What should people who maybe don't read this, this genre or are not part of the community you're a part of take away from that -- that kind of support?

JF: I think that the romance genre and the romance-loving community has been a pretty underestimated demographic for a while. A lot of it because women and queer people kind of dominate the readership. And I think what people should take away from it is that we're not just another little niche. And things that we love deserve to be celebrated, and the communities that we're building are vital and important.

NK: What will that money go towards at this point?

JF: Yeah. So, what we're using the funds for right now is to rebuild our inventory. So, we lost everything in the fire. I would say 99 per cent of the inventory we had, we lost. We also would like to build in a more permanent location. So, right now, we're at a long-term pop up location, but we are hoping to open a permanent brick and mortar on the first floor of another building still in the same town that we're located in now.

NK: The fire was just three days, as our listeners have heard, after your grand opening. There are other shops in the same building. Do you have any more information about what might have caused this?

JF: So, we don't have full detail on what caused it. We know for sure that the fire was accidental, so no one intentionally caused it. But we're still working out with the fire marshal and all of our insurance companies what specifically was the cause?

NK: Clearly, the romance book industry is, is booming. And you talked about people, you know, starting to, to recognize that. But it's another thing to while you have a full-time job as a lobbyist to, to [chuckle] decide to open a bookstore dedicated to romance books, why did you do that?

JF: You know, I kind of had this thought last year, I moved to Alexandria in August, and I said within two years, I know I want to make this my long-term home. So, within two years, I want to start a business. It's something I've wanted to do for a while. And, you know, I don't have kids. I am making enough money to feel comfortable and safe where I'm living. So, I thought, what better time than now? If I don't do it now, it's never going to happen. And so, it's something that, you know, reading and romance specifically have been things that I've loved for a while. And once I realized and it kind of clicked that there was a market need for this kind of space, it felt like an obvious choice.

NK: Do you think that there's still, or have you seen a shift in terms of a stigma about this kind of reading? People still poo-poo it.

JF: You know, they do. And I think there's a shift, but I think more so than a shift in thinking, I think of people who think that the genre is illegitimate. I think the bigger shift and the more important shift is that people are less ashamed of loving this kind of genre. When we have found these online communities and now these in-person communities that are celebrating this, it's, you know, you don't really need to feel shame as much because there's a lot of other people that are enjoying it with you and believe that it's an important, you know, hobby or activity.

NK: Have you seen the books change as well? Because I think a lot of people have in their minds a certain kind of cover, [chuckle] a certain kind of storytelling.

JF: Yeah! Now, I think we have more than ever a more diverse range of stories. People are seeing all body types, and disabilities, and different relationship types. So, I think as time has gone on, the trends will kind of keep going with relationship trends, but we also see trends in improving diversity.

NK: What's a clinch cover.

JF: So, the clinch cover is just the man is grabbing the woman or holding her somehow in an embrace.

NK: We've moved beyond that, thankfully, I think. [both chuckle].

JF: You know, I think the artistry is really beautiful. But I think, you know, the cartoon covers are where I love personally because they're so cutesy and fun and light, and they really depict the, the fun of the genre.

NK: Jamie, I appreciate your time. Good luck with the store.

JF: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

CH: Jamie Fortin is the owner of Friends to Lovers romance bookstore in Alexandria, Virginia. We reached her in Los Angeles.

[chillhop house tour music]

Monkeys Study

CH: Since the dawn of time, only one person has managed to write the complete works of William Shakespeare. No one before him dared to try -- because they didn't know Shakespeare would write anything, or be born. And in the period since William Shakespeare himself wrote the complete works of himself, none have dared to write them again. But in 1913, the French mathematician Émile Borel wrote about what came to be known as the "infinite monkey theorem".

SOUNDCLIP

[monkey calls and typewriter keys clicking, the bell]

MAN: To be, or not to be. That is the question

CH: Monsieur Borel wrote that an infinite number of monkeys typing for an infinite amount of time would eventually produce an existing text, such as the complete works of Shakespeare. Monsieur Borel added that the chances of this happening were infinitesimal -- but not zero. He did not write about the smell in the room full of infinite monkeys, but you can infer that you would not want to be their immediate supervisor. But according to a new study by mathematician Stephen Woodcock -- and I quote -- "it's not happening." His work suggests that the chances of a monkey even typing the single word "banana" are "approximately one in 22 billion". The chances of a monkey replicating the book Curious George -- which is only about 1,800 words long -- are one in 10 to the power of 15,000. So when it comes to replicating all of Shakespeare, Mr. Woodcock told the New York Times, quote: "If we replaced every atom in the universe with a universe the size of ours, it would still be orders of magnitude away from making the monkey typing likely to succeed." Look, I know: I'm disappointed too. I was really looking forward to reading Shakespeare written by monkeys instead of Shakespeare. But this definitely throws an infinite number of monkey wrenches into that plan.

[ambient]

Part 2: Jan 6: Officer, Vatican Appointments

Jan 6: Officer

Guest: Aquilino Gonell

CH: This afternoon, in snowy Washington, D.C., U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris had the awkward task of certifying the election that she lost.

SOUNDCLIP

KAMALA HARRIS: The votes for president of the United States are as follows. Donald J. Trump of the state of Florida has received 312 votes. [claps and cheers] Kamala D. Harris... [long pause] Kamala D. Harris of the state of California has received 226 votes. [clapping and cheering]

CH: U.S. Vice President Kamala Harris, after Congress formally certified Donald Trump's victory in the 2024 election. That peaceful scene was in stark contrast to the one that took place on January 6th four years ago -- when Donald Trump refused to admit defeat, and a violent mob of his supporters stormed the capitol. Since then, hundreds have either pleaded guilty or been convicted of crimes and misdemeanours committed that day -- which Donald Trump has begun to call a "day of love." And he's promised that he'll start issuing pardons within the first few hours of his second term. Aquilino Gonell was there four years ago, as a Capitol Police sergeant tasked with protecting lawmakers. He was injured and has since retired. We reached him in Woodbridge, Virginia.

NK: How do you, Sergeant Gonell, mark a day like today?

AUILINO GONELL: Um, speaking my truth, speaking about what we endured, attesting to what I did, reaching out to those who have been affected like my colleagues, relatives, stay at home with my family as well, and also telling the American people what we endured. That it was not peaceful, it was not a loving day like the former president says. People's lives and livelihoods were taken and injured because of what he and his supporters did to us -- the police officers.

NK: You wrote in The New York Times in an op-ed piece this week about what that day was like, what it did to you, the impact it's had, and the most frightening moments of that day. Could you tell our listeners a little bit about what you wrote there? And, and this was life and death for you?

AG: I mean, on January 6th, I found myself doing my job. What I signed on for. Don't get me wrong, I do know what that job carried at that time, which meant up to risking or giving up my life to do. What didn't expect was on January 6th that our own citizens were doing the attacking, not a foreign entity, not Al-Qaeda, not ISIS, but our own citizens supportive of Donald Trump. And these are the same people that claimed to be supporter of the police officer, supportive of that law and order, supportive of the rule of law. But yet, they were the one doing the attacking and overwhelming our defence. And then, they turn around and say, no, y'all let them in. Y'all let those people in. Yeah, we're not doing enough, even though we were outnumbered 58 to one. And they were the one doing the attacking, not us.

NK: So, you still find yourself fighting accusations that you didn't do your job or that this was a perfectly fine day? That everything was peace and love.

AG: It has never stopped, you know? Just as they are okay with the election this time around because their preferred candidate won. But had he had a loss, I'm sure he would have had incited another violent mob to attack the Capitol to try to prevent this certification today. Fortunately, that, you know, I don't know if it is fortunately or unfortunately, but he got what he wanted to all along -- returning to power to account, to avoid accountability.

NK: Have you been able to even bring yourself to watch the certification today?

AG: I had not, to turn it off. I you know, I, it has been a disappointment, a betrayal from a lot of institutions, people, organizations. And it's these elected officials, instead of celebrating or praising the officers for their actions on January 6th, they had turned their back, literally, on those officers. Some of those elected officials had invited some of the rioters that were attacking the officers to Donald Trump inauguration on, on January 20th. Them themselves were being hunted down. If it wasn't because of the actions that we did, many of them would have gotten hurt or killed.

NK: And it's not just being invited to the inauguration. Donald Trump is promising to, to start pardoning rioters who were there on January 6th as soon as he, he takes office for his second term.

AG: I mean, those are, he ran on it. And the majority of the people in this country, they, they, they decided that the president, I don't know what to call him, former president, elect, president-elect, or felon-elect. But, you know, it's, they voted for him. And it is very challenging to reconcile that, that this person that claimed to be the law and order, the biggest supporter of police, is the one that is about to pardon people who were breaking the law on his behalf under his banner. And because they were his supporter, he's going to pardon them.

NK: Beyond the psychological weight of all of this that you carry, we mentioned to our listeners that you were injured four years ago. How are you doing physically?

AG: Physically, I'm able to do certain things, but I have some restrictions on my left arm. I don't have a lot of stamina. I can move and push, but I don't have a lot of stamina on the limb. Mentally, depending on what time of day or who I'm talking to about January 6th, or what part of my day, it becomes very emotional and traumatizing. But I have received treatment for it. What makes it even worse is the moral injury. Where we did the right thing, and yet, we are being vilified while the rioters, the people who are doing the attacking are being praised, not the officers. To this day, Donald Trump and a lot of Republicans, elected officials who survived July 6th, and have met with the police officers who protected them, who continue to protect them, and there will be some of those officers, if not most of the officers, at Trump's inauguration. The same officers that protected against Trump's mob on January 6th are the same ones that are going to be protecting him during his inauguration. And that's ironic. Because to this day, Donald Trump has not even apologized for his actions against the officers.

NK: Sergeant Gonell, I know it's not easy to talk about. So, so, I appreciate you coming on our show. I'm glad you have some support. Please take care.

AG: All right. Thank you. Bye.

CH: Aquilino Gonell is a retired sergeant with the U.S. Capitol Police. He's in Woodbridge, Virginia.

[acoustic guitar]

Canadian Soccer Player

CH: Yuuma Tabbaa really loves to play soccer. And everybody loves the way he plays soccer -- which is especially impressive because he's just 10 years old. Last year, Yuuma was invited to be on the Canadian team in the Real Madrid World Challenge in Madrid. So, his family travelled there from Yellowknife, not sure how it would it go. It went pretty well. So well that he was scouted to play in a tournament in Barcelona. And this June, he'll be heading back to Madrid once again to play. It's all a bit of a dream for Yuuma. He told the CBC why he loves the sport so much.

SOUNDCLIP

YUUMA TABBAA: My favorite part, that I love it. And then, I want to go pro when I'm older. And my dream is to play in Europe, and I want to play for the Canada National Team. And I want to play for Real Madrid when I'm older because that's my favorite team. Yeah, my idol is Messi, Lionel Messi. I mostly play midfield, but I could play, like, attack. Yeah, that's my most position. It felt good to get the top scorer award. So, I know, like, I'm doing good and I want to work harder because I knew it for a long time when I was like a kid too, because my sister was playing soccer too. And she still does. So, when I was a kid, I saw the ball, so I was just kicking it around and stuff. I'm happy that people are looking forward to me and selecting me to go to Europe. And yeah.

CH: Ten-year-old son Yuuma speaking with Jocelyn Shepel of CBC Yellowknife.

[lo-fi]

Vatican Appointments

Guest: Kate McElwee

SOUNDCLIP

[tense music]

MAN: The Pope is dead. The throne is vacant.

CH: That's a clip from the trailer from the movie Conclave -- in which Ralph Fiennes and Stanley Tucci play two men who are part of a much larger group of men tasked with deciding which man will replace the man who was Pope. It's a window into an institution that is monumentally important and monumentally patriarchal. But over in the real world it just became marginally less so. As part of a series of appointments today, Pope Francis named an Italian nun head of a dicastery -- or department -- that oversees the Catholic Church's religious orders. It's still a long way from the priesthood -- let alone the papacy -- but the selection of Sister Simona Brambilla to fill that position is the first of its kind. Kate McElwee is the executive director of the Women's Ordination Conference, a grassroots group that campaigns for women's full equality in the Catholic Church. We reached her in Rome.

NK: Kate, I'm sure you've seen the headlines. Historic is the word being thrown around. Is that the word you would use to, to describe Sister Simona's appointment?

KATE MCELWEE: Absolutely. This is a significant milestone in the life of the church. Sister Simona Brambilla will be the first woman ever to lead a major Vatican dicastery, taking charge of the office that oversees the world's Catholic religious orders. So, any time there's a first at the Vatican, it's another crack in the stained glass ceiling.

NK: The Dicastery for the Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life. Those words might not mean a lot to, to a lot of our listeners, whether they're religious or not. What will this department, what does this department oversee? What happens there?

KM: So, this department looks after the world's religious orders of the, of the Catholic Church. So, men and women religious orders, so sisters, brothers, and priests who are part of religious orders.

NK: What kind of impact do you think a woman in that role could have?

KM: You know, I think it could be really significant. Sister Simona was promoted from within the department, so she obviously knows the dicastery. But my hope is that her taking, stepping into this role will offer her more exposure to leadership opportunities, and to really position herself as a collaborator alongside the many men who work inside the Vatican. The quirk and maybe the concern I have about her position is that alongside her appointment, there was also a pro prefect appointed. So, this was sort of a, a cardinal who is going to, his duties are not clearly defined. And so, a question that I have, and I hope the Vatican will come to offer more clarity around this, is what his responsibilities are related to her. The Vatican has said that Sister Brambilla is in charge of the dicastery, so his duties are not quite so clear. Is he a custodian? Is he a collaborator? So, I think that's still something to figure out how that will work in practice.

NK: And why is it, is it necessary at all that, that she's appointed alongside a man?

KM: It shouldn't, It shouldn't be. I think it reveals that there's still a tension about having women in charge at the Vatican. What could be at the root of this issue is that a woman, you know, this is my suspicion is that a woman wouldn't be in charge of a male religious order. And so, they have this pro prefect on the side. But certainly, she's not a ordained member of the clergy. She can't celebrate mass. And she is essentially an unequal participant in the life of her, of the church as a woman.

NK: When you heard this from your home in Rome today, or when you heard about the appointments in general, what did you say to yourself?

KM: You know, I'm, I'm a little bit tired of celebrating first of women being appointed. And I just long for the day that we won't need a headline for a woman being appointed to a Vatican office. So, while I certainly celebrate this and I wish her all the best in this role, I think this is really a small step on a much bigger project to bring gender equity into the Roman Catholic Church.

NK: And as those appointments were being announced or not long before, I should say, Pope Francis was criticized for, for telling a group of teaching sisters, quote, many times in my life I've encountered nuns with a vinegar face. And this is not friendly. This is not something that helps to attract people, unquote. What did you make of those comments, and what does it say to you that the same man, the same Pope, making these kinds of unprecedented appointments is also making a statement like that?

KM: I think there's an enormous culture shift that needs to happen at the Vatican to really see women as the full human leaders and partners in, in the life of the church. And Francis, unfortunately, has misstepped many times when talking about women. He's used old tropes and stereotypes. And it's very discouraging because he, you know, on one side says these, these hurtful things and on another side is able to appoint women. And so, it's very frustrating. And I just hope that as more and more women enter into the life of the Vatican and the governing bodies of the church, that Pope Francis is able to transform his mind.

NK: On the matter of the priesthood, and women being barred from from Catholic priesthood, what do you think it will take for that change to come?

KM: I think for the change to come, ultimately, it's going to come from persistence over many years. Women and men around the world long for the Catholic Church to live up to its social justice values. So, it's going to take a lot of changing of hearts and minds and persistence from activists like myself knocking on the doors.

NK: What keeps you doing this work and what keeps you committed to the Catholic Church despite everything that you're clearly weary of? I hear it there. [KM chuckles] You know, why not another Christian denomination?

KM: You know, I was raised Catholic. This is my church. And I feel real responsibility as a Catholic to work to transform the institution, to live up to its values, to be a beacon for equality and justice in the world. And I also have the immense privilege of knowing and working with so many women who are priests in everything but name. And so, I pray and, you know, march and fight so that one day their gifts will be welcomed in the Catholic Church.

NK: You believe the church can change?

KM: It's changed before and it can change again. One of our most popular ministries at the Women's Ordination Conference is called the Ministry of Irritation, [NK chuckles] and it's where we think of creative and colorful and faithful ways to ask this very old question in new, in a new light, and make sure that people know that this question is not settled. The Catholic faithful long for women to be priests to be equals in their church. And so, we do whatever it takes. Raising pink smoke over the Vatican, walking with red parasols down the Via della Conciliazione, organizing marches and witnesses. It's a lot of fun, but it also has an impact because it shows that the grassroots are really supportive of this issue and we won't be silenced.

NK: Kate, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

KM: Thank you so much.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: But there are elements of scare. I mean, one of our producers scared the crapola out of her when she --

AP: I'm so pleased to hear that!

ME: When she read that. [both laugh] That is true. So, but you say it's an unapologetic diversion from your usual novels. Why unapologetic? Do you feel that people expect you to apologize for writing a horror novel?

AP: Well, I guess the unapologetic, you know, that's there to say, look, some people feel, I don't, but some people feel that so-called genre fiction is of a lesser, you know, lesser order. I'm not of that school of thinking, but I recognize that there's a perhaps prevailing way of thinking that does regard it as a lesser thing. So, I'd like to make the case. I don't think it's, you know, it's a perfect artifact. But I think, I think there, I think in this novel there are, there are ideas. There are, I've at least attempted to craft sentences of a level that, that are, you know, equal to what you'll find in a literary novel. But, at the same time, yes, there is an effect of keeping you up late at night and scaring the crapola out of you.

CH: Andrew Pyper, speaking with Michael Enright on The Sunday Edition in 2013 -- about writing literary fiction that could still scare readers sleepless. Mr. Pyper died on Friday at the age of 56.

[folk]

Part 3: Newfoundland Storm, NY Congestion Pricing

Old Wedding Photos

CH: When a couple gets married, they're left with some mementos they're not especially fond of -- like the bill for the venue, and the bigger bill for the open bar. Not to mention the fee for the Red Hot Chili Peppers cover band that played "Californication" at least seven times, but, of course, there are sweet things too -- like the wedding photos that remind them of that special day. Well, Margaret and Barry Sharman's special day was July 20th, 1968, in Enderby, British Columbia. But they don't have the professional wedding photos that were taken that day, because they couldn't afford them. And then one day, 56 years later, Margaret got a text from her friend, Sandy.

SOUNDCLIP

MARGARET SHARMAN: And she said in the text, Margie, have you got your original wedding pictures? And I said, No, Sandy. I said, we were never, ever able to pick them up because we didn't have any money. She says, well, I'm looking at them. And I said, what?! And she said, I'm going to text them to you. So, she texted me the pictures, and I texted her back, and I said, Sandy, I've never seen these pictures. Where did they come from? She said, the administrator of the museum in Enderby got an envelope that said "Towers-Sharman Wedding, July 20th, 1968". She opened the envelope. She recognized Sandy, my girlfriend. Sandy has been my good friend since we were in grade two in Enderby. I grew up in Enderby, was married in Enderby. And Sandy just happened to be volunteering that day. She looks at the pictures and she said, That's Barry and Margie's wedding pictures!

BARRY SHARMAN: Because she was one of the bridesmaids.

MS: Sandy was one of the bridesmaids. And Sandy was volunteering that day. And then, she texted me to say she had my pictures, our pictures in her hand.

SARAH PENTON: Wow! What, tell me, what went through your mind the first time you saw those pictures?

BS: Well, besides, she cried a lot of happy tears. And then, she was just beside herself with joy. She was very, very pleased. And I had even forgotten what the whole wedding party, how we looked. I couldn't believe how in the picture of the whole wedding party that the photographer had us not smile. There wasn't a smile in the room. [everybody laughs]

BS: Yeah, I couldn't believe it. There was no way that would have been something we would have automatically done. You know, we're supposed to be happy the wedding's over. You know, we can party hearty here soon.

SP: So, you guys had a good time?

MS: Yeah.

SP: It was a fun time, I would imagine.

MS: Yeah.

BS: Yes, it was.

MS: If you see the pictures, you'll see how glum we all looked.

BS: Yeah. [everyone laughs].

MS: But yeah. So, and it was emotional to see the pictures of all of us because, number one, my mother made all the dresses. And number two, my sister was the maid of honour, who, and she passed away just last year. So, that picture was so emotional to see.

CH: Margaret and Barry Sharman speaking to Sarah Penton, host of Radio West in Kelowna.

[calypso]

Newfoundland Storm

Guest: Wanda Pierce

CH: Wanda Pierce has been through some bad storms. But she says she's never experienced anything like the storm that hit over the weekend. Ms. Pierce lives in Gambo, Newfoundland and Labrador -- which declared a state of emergency when high winds and massive waves battered parts of the province. Thousands were left without power. And pictures Ms. Pierce posted to social media show the area around her house covered in water. We reached Wanda Pierce in Gambo earlier today.

NK: Wanda, you were able to finally go home last night. But how was that, that night of sleep?

WANDA PIERCE: I can't say it was a really night of sleep because we came home, like, yesterday after supper, and we were on watch with water all night back and forth, like driving the car down the road, and we out to our spot. We only had to go 'round the other driveway and you could see if the water's rising in. We'd know exactly when it's coming in because we have a build-up.

NK: Yeah.

WP: And you see it coming over.

NK: And what does it look like right now outside your house?

WP: Right now, it's, it's good. But as of a few hours ago, I was outside. Well, I was saying to Paul, Paul, the water's rising again. It's only a matter of me trying to tidy up at around pick up out of garbage that was floating and everything, and the water start coming in again. But it only went halfways, halfways compared to yesterday.

NK: Paul is your partner, just so our listeners know.

WP: Yes.

NK: So, when did you realize when all of this started to, to unfold over the weekend, when did you realize something was really wrong?

WP: Yesterday, yesterday morning, around 8 or 8:15 in that area that I was on. Paul was gone out around to see what damage because we had a lot of wind at night before, the night. So, he went out around, of course, and I sat in with my morning coffee. So, I was going out and put them out and let them go around And I've now waited a little bit because it's stormy out. And I said, I'll just wait to see if it stills. So, I waited and was having a coffee, and Paul called, and Paul said, Wanda, I think we will get some more winds. We should go out and tie down the tarp tent we got there -- a big tarp tent. And I said, okay. I said, give me a second. I went out. I went out with Crocs on, so you can tell how much water was there. I had Crocs on. So I went in tent, and I reached up and helped them tie it down. As I was getting off the bike, like a matter of seconds, I stepped in water and Paul said, come on, we'll get out of here. So, Paul got in the car, and instead, I just ran across the yard to go to the back door and go in and shut the power down. He said, I'll meet you over in the front door. He said, Just shut the power down. He said, and come on. But he couldn't get into the door, that was how fast it was. Like, by the time he got over 'round the other driveway. He couldn't get in, so he went to next door neighbour across the road and see if they could get a canoe and get over and get me.

NK: And did he?

WP: And I had to get out in a canoe.

NK: So, now that you've been able to survey the damage, you said you were picking up some, some garbage and what's left behind. How much damage has been done?

WP: Well, I went out to the shed. The patio of my shed is at my next door neighbour's house. Like, the patio totally came off the shed. And thjis patio is about 300, 350 pounds, I would say or more. Like, anyway, it floated it and it went down my nextdoor neighbour on the other side and then went to the other one.

NK: You lost some animals, too, as I understand it.

WP: Yeah, I lost, I lost four hens and a duck because I went out and fed them. And then, I came back in, and like I said, I didn't let them out. So, of course, the water got in, and they, some made it up top and the rest didn't.

NK: Four hens and a duck. I know after you, that story you told about leaving with the canoe, then you had to leave again. But this time, with the help of emergency crews, right?

WP: Yes. So after we left in a canoe, I came back when we were allowed back in, so I came on in, did a few things, and Paul sat at the table. And I looked out the window, and I thought, my God, Paul, the water's coming in again. So, Paul jumped up. He said, turn up. I said, Paul, you go ahead, I'll turn off the power. I'll meet you out front. So, he do that. But, of course, he was gone and I was like, it was like a matter of seconds again, and the emergency crew came and knocked on door, get out, shut down the power and you got to get out now. So, that was the second time.

NK: So, how would you describe what you're feeling in this moment after after all that?

WP: Actually, usually, I get in a panic attack, like, as when I can't, like I'm very, very clastraphobic. So, when I looked out the window and out the door and saw the water, I said, I'm not getting out of this for the first time with a canoe. So, I didn't realize when I got in the canoe and got out and got aboard the car. I looked back and then I realized, oh my God, what just happened? As I was running into the house, the water was coming behind me.

NK: That sounds scary.

WP: That fast. Like, it was like I was like, oh my God, that's how fast the water was coming.

NK: How about your neighbours? Have you had a chance to, to talk to each other and help each other out?

WP: Oh God, yes, yes, yes. I kept them on alert. Like me and Paul, my nextdoor neighbou hasr got kids, so I told her stay down with kids and I'll let her know what's on the go. And she was watching, too, the water and watching. And so, we were all in contact, right?

NK: Yeah.

WP: Paul's parents live across the road. And we were kept in contact with them and another neighbour who lives next door to us alone. So, all kept in contact, right?

NK: Well, I'm glad you have Paul there, and that you're close with your neighbors. Do you think you, you all might get a better night's sleep tonight?

WP: Hopefully. Well, hopefully. We'll see. I say we will because it seems like today is pretty calm.

NK: Okay. Well, I hope that's the case, Wanda. I'm glad you're doing, doing all right all things considered. Please take care. And thanks for this.

WP: You too. And thank you. Thank you very, very much.

NK: Take care.

WP: Bye-bye.

CH: That was Wanda Pierce speaking to us from Gambo, Newfoundland and Labrador, earlier today.

[bright piano and bass]

FOA: Snowed-In Inn

CH: Guardian contributors' bylines are usually followed by standard descriptions: "Europe correspondent", Science correspondent" -- or simply, "in Jerusalem," "Taipei," "Washington." Robyn Vinter's is a little different. Today, her byline reads, "Still snowed in at the Tan Hill Inn." But she's just fine with that. In fact, as she writes in her column, quote, "This is a story I've been hoping to cover for years." That's because for years, Yorkshire's Tan Hill Inn has had a reputation as the place where people get snowed in. With two Ns. This year, Ms. Vinter is among them. And so is Australian Paul Wright -- whom she reports circulated with a bottle of whisky at approximately 4:30 pm local time this afternoon. In 2021, the snowed-in inn was populated by a similarly jovial group, which happened to include an Oasis cover band that began going by the nickname, Snowasis. From Our Archives, here's the inn's manager Nicola Townsend speaking with former As It Happens host Carol Off about the surprise, three-day concert.

SOUNDCLIP

NT: It's an early 17th-century building, so it's very old, but it has got extensions that's been added

on to it. So we've got lots of little rooms, and I think that that helps because people could separate

into little groups and, you know, people were chatting with each other. They've never met before.

They were playing games, board games, card games, you know, and everyone just got along really

well. They were all helping, fetching logs in for the fires and washing up, washing glasses, taking

food out for people. Everyone just mucked in and did their little bit to help.

CO: Did the beer run out [chuckle], or did you still have a supply?

NT: Oh no, we still have plenty of beer.

CO: OK, so that was fine. Food, you had enough food?

NT: Yes, plenty of food. I'd say the only thing that ran out of was breakfast sausages. [CO

chuckles] That was pointed out to me by one of our guests when I said to somebody else in an

interview that we were fine and we haven't run out of any food. And afterwards, he said, yes you

did! You've run out of breakfast sausages.

CO: Oh, dear! [both laughing] All right. Well, so somebody noticed that. But everything else was...

and how many... how many people did you have there?

NT: We had 61 people and seven staff.

CO: And they all stayed... where… where did they sleep?

NT: We do have nine guest rooms, and three of those rooms are, like, multi-functional rooms. You

can have in one room up to eight sleep, and you can have six in another one. And so people were

happy to share as long as they got somewhere warm and comfortable to be. And then, we ended

up having to use the sofas and small camping mattresses on the floor, but we had plenty of duvets

and pillows, and so everybody had something to keep them warm and comfortable for the night.

CO: OK, for the night. And so, people were ready to bed down. It was kind of fun, kind of an

adventure. Did you have any idea that you'd be spending three nights together?

NT: No. I did kind of think on Friday night that we would probably end up together on Saturday

night as well. [CO chuckles] and we were waiting to hear from another local council to see if they

were able to get a snowplough to us. But they were struggling. They couldn't get to it. So once we

knew that, I just said to everybody, right, let's just bed down for the night, let's get comfortable

again. And everyone was really relaxed about it, and there were no bothers. They just got on with

what they wanted to do. We put movies on, and we had pop quizzes. We did karaoke, and

everyone was having a really good time. And, yeah, they cooked us a nice traditional Sunday roast

dinner yesterday, and we had some very happy people.

CO: Well, with the exception of the breakfast sausage for one person.

NT: Yes! [both chuckling] I didn't let him forget about it. [chuckling]

CH: Tan Hill Inn manager Nicola Townsend, speaking with our former host Carol Off in November, 2021.

[ambient]

NY Congestion Pricing

Guest: Yossi Benhamou

CH: There were some obstacles -- delays and court challenges -- but now, New York City's congestion program has finally hit the road. The program aims to ease traffic by imposing tolls on vehicles entering the busiest parts of Manhattan. It faces strong opposition from various quarters, including President-elect Donald Trump -- who has vowed to end it permanently after taking office. It went into effect yesterday -- so today, commuters got their first taste of the new $9 charge. Yossi Benhamou is the owner of Matles Florist in Manhattan -- which is located just inside the congestion toll zone. That's where we reached him.

NK: Yossi, you're at the shop. What does it look like outside the window, traffic-wise?

YOSSI BENHAMOU: It's quiet. You know, it's well known, I don't know, I don't know if to blame the congestion pricing or the first week of January where it's, you know, everybody's still kind of either on vacations or, it's light, traffic is light, and we have some snow. So, figure out some people decide not to travel today.

NK: Okay. So, we'll see if it's solely because of congestion pricing that it's so empty out there. We'll see what the rest of the week brings on that front. But, but if it is because of congestion pricing that it is quieter, what feeling does that give you?

YB: Well, for me, as a business owner, it's not the greatest thing. I don't feel that even if we come in outside the city, let's say, have to pay the toll and then I have to pay more money going around here, doing my, my, my job or doing my business, you know, where I'm in the flower shop. So, obviously, we have deliveries. Not everything is close by. Some has to be driven. So, you know, taking money to do that, it doesn't seem fair to me.

NK: What will this new pricing mean for you and the deliveries that your team has to make?

YB: More expenses. It's more money out of my pocket to make the deliveries that we're supposed to make. So, they raised the prices of the tolls regardless. And now, it's congestion pricing, more expenses, and it's daily every day.

NK: Is that something you're going to pass on to your customers? Are you paying it out of pocket right now?

YB: I'm going to first see what it costs me. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, I can't swallow everything. Everything got more expensive around us. So, how much can I swallow? At some point, we have to make some money to survive. So, my first reaction was just, you know, charge more money. But on the other hand, I don't want customers running away from here because I have to charge more money. It's very delicate in between. So, I'm going to see how am I swallowing it in the beginning and see what it takes moving forward.

NK: It was initially going to be $15 this pricing, now it's dropped to $9. Does that give you some comfort?

YB: You want to know my real thoughts about it?

NK: Always, of course.

YB: Okay. So, my real thoughts, it was Governor Hochul did it on purpose. It's all one big hoax. So, she knew she's going to move on with it. So, in the beginning, she said she'll cancel it, got elected, as she hoped, and now she brought it back. And say, okay, I give it to you, the same thing and we did a discount. Instead of $15, it's $9. It's a big difference, I must say. But still, if you wanted to cancel it, you should have canceled it, not cancel it for a month, get elected, and then listening to Mr. Trump saying that he's going to fight it so it won't go on, and so, doing it before he goes into office. For me, it was all planned ahead.

NK: Do you think there's any chance it will be reversed, given what the incoming president is saying?

YB: I do not think so. I do not. Even when New Jersey was fighting for it in court, I didn't think it's going to go through. I knew it's going to go on. They have here Port Authority, which is New York, New Jersey. So, for example, tolls in the tunnel, all the bridges are going for the Port Authority, but congestion prices is going just for New York City. That was all the fight between New York and New Jersey, I guess.

NK: How long have you lived in, in New York? Lived and worked there, Yossi?

YB: I am in New York for a little bit over 30 years working on a business in the city for over 20 years.

NK: So you've seen some traffic, some New York traffic, Manhattan traffic in your time.

YB: [laughing] Yeah, it goes on and off. You know, seasonal, Christmastime is crazy. Yeah, but we know traffic here.

NK: But, so what would, what would be a better solution to easing some of that congestion? Because most people agree it's unsustainable, right?

YB: Yeah. You don't have to charge me money running around the city doing my job. Raise the tolls. Don't let people come in the city if you don't want to.

NK: You're saying raise the existing tolls. Don't bring in the separate pricing plan?

YB: Yeah, the tolls that they have on the bridges. Make it $100. Nobody will come in to the city. And then, all the businesses that rely on people coming out of the city will lose their business. They don't think about it this way. They, I, for me, it's all about getting more money.

NK: The money is set to go to transit infrastructure, and I think a lot of subway riders in New York would agree that, that it could use some upgrading. It's supposed to lower the number of cars on the road, as you well know. And I hear what you're saying about election promises from the governor, but could it be seen as a, as a necessary compromise? And, of course, there's the environmental aspect as well.

YB: That remains to be seen.

NK: You think you might come around? [chuckling]

YB: Maybe. But how much money can you take? You, you know, at one point the toll was like about $5, $6, something like that for the tunnel, and rased in one shot by like $7 or $8. And they said the same thing. And now, it's not enough. Now, you need more money.

NK: But those tolls you mentioned, they haven't stopped, you know, the traffic in New York. I hear what you're saying about raising those instead of bringing in congestion pricing. We've seen this in other cities, and it's worked there. People do come around to it, and it helps ease congestion. Hopefully, the environmental issues as well.

YB: I hope so. I certainly hope so. But, you know, you could take $2 or $3 and make, and people will understand, but you decide to take $9, which I don't think would be the end of it. Look, it's, it has it's, if you put it on the scale, it has its good things and bad things. Again, if they promise to fix all the public transportation and that, I hope they will. It remains to be seen. It just started. It's the first day. So, we'll see what happens.

NK: A healthy dose of New Yorker cynicism at this stage.

YB: Yeah, right. A healthy dose and a lot of patients. I don't think it will stop traffic. Whoever needs to come to New York City, you know, a family of three or four people coming to see a Broadway show, I don't think they'll take the train. They'll pay the $9 and come to the city. The, either the business is going to suffer or people will pay the money. But whoever wants to come will still come, will pay the $9 and will come.

NK: Yossi, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

YB: And thank you for having me.

CH: Yossi Benhamou is the owner of Matles Florist in Manhattan. That's where we reached him.

[hip-hop]

Julien Poulin Obit

CH: Over his career, which began in the early '70s, Quebec actor Julien Poulin appeared in almost 100 movies. But he's best known for playing Elvis Gratton -- a comic character created in reaction to the 1980 vote on Quebec independence.

SOUNDCLIP

[Elvis Gratton speaks French]

CH: Mr. Poulin died on Saturday. He was 78. In a social media post, Parti Quebecois leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon described Julien Poulin as a crucial activist for Quebec's independence, and a giant of provincial culture.

The AIH Transcript For January 06, 2025

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