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The AIH Transcript for September 11, 2018

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

JD: Tonight:

CO: Haven becomes hell. Millions of Syrians fled to Idlib after their cities were bombed. And now, with Syrian and Russian forces planning a decisive attack there, they have nowhere left to run.

JD: When so many were missing, he was missed. A retired detective has spent years trying to solve the case of a man who was murdered in New York City — on September 11th, 2001.

CO: Jetsam engine. A Dutch organization sends a 600-meter-long floating tube into the ocean to collect floating plastic, but experts aren't buoyant about its effects on marine life.

JD: Justice is blindsided. Yesterday, the U.S. national security advisor launched a blistering attack on the International Criminal Court. Tonight, one of its founders responds to John Bolton's diatribe.

CO: A bidder-sweet success. When an Alberta couple is forced to sell a classic car to support their recently orphaned grandchildren, the people of Red Deer come together — and spring into auction.

JD: And...scale-testing question. What do you call a snake with arms and legs in a soccer jersey? Well, Philadelphia's Major League Soccer team calls it "Phang" — its terrifying, inexplicable new mascot.

JD: "As It Happens", the Tuesday edition. Radio that suggests we go back to the days of serpents not having limbs -- you know, for old times' snake.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Idlib doctor, ocean Cleanup, Red Deer auction

Idlib doctor

Guest: Abdulhai Tennari

JD: Residents in Idlib are playing a harrowing waiting game. For days, there has been talk of an impending, large-scale offensive in the province, by Syrian and Russian forces. It's the last rebel-held stronghold in the Syrian war, and has long been coveted by the Syrian regime. But it's also the last refuge for some three million Syrians, who fled to Idlib to escape bombing in other parts of Syria. Now, there's nowhere else to go. Abdulhai Tennari is a physician at a hospital in Idlib, in a town just outside Idlib City. That's where we reached him.

CO: Doctor Tannari, we have been hearing about these attacks by Syrian and Russian forces. They're supposed to start bombing Idlib any day now. What are you anticipating?

ABDULHAI TENNARI: We are expecting that attack. The regime is collecting his troops around Idlib. And actually, some air attacks already started. So people are very afraid. They don't know what will happen. To which degree will be the attack the regime to try to take. There’s no other place to escape because of these people very afraid.

CO: And we have heard all the different kinds of weapons that President al-Assad, along with the Russians and the Iranians, have used in Syria. Barrel bombs, chemical weapons. Are you preparing for all of that as well?

AT: Yes. Actually, not from now; we are preparing for it for seven years. But now, maybe we expect it more because just Idlib is out of the power of the regime.

CO: And everything is now focused on Idlib, isn’t it? They're saying this is the last place that will fall.

AT: Yes, the last place. And all his troops all his air jets.

CO: Your hospital is quite vulnerable to this attack. Can you tell us how difficult it will be to operate there?

AT: My hospital is above ground, so it’s vulnerable for any attack. We have in Idlib some fortified hospitals under the grounds. Because the regime used the military to attack hospitals. Because of this, some hospital is built under the grounds.

CO: But yours is above ground?

AT: Yes, above ground.

CO: But we know that the regime has used bunker busters as they're called. They've used bombs that can penetrate down to where you've had underground hospitals. How vulnerable are the underground hospitals?

AT: No safe place at all in city of Idlib. But little bit more safe under the grounds.

CO: Given what you know about how the regime has attacked the different cities and the different areas, what are you expecting to happen? What will they attack first when they come after Idlib?

AT: First, they attack hospitals and civil defense points — the White Helmets. Systematically before any operation, they are destroying hospitals. For several years, before any operation, the regime started destroying Hospitals.

CO: And the White Helmets, who we know are the groups who go around helping people and getting them out of the debris and bring them to hospital.

AT: Yes.

CO: You have three million people living in that region, many of them don't have housing, they are internally displaced people, lots of women, lots of children. How will they be safe? What can they possibly do to avoid the attack on Idlib? How can they how can they be safe in any way?

AT: Nothing. Nothing. We cannot do anything. Now there is no other place to escape. All our other cities, they surrendered, and they came to Idlib. And now, Idlib is the last place were civilians collected from all Syria. A lot of them are living in encamped in tents. No Safe Place in Idlib. The regime attack anything.

CO: I can hear how tired you are. I can hear in your voice how defeated you must feel. And we've been hearing that with the people we have spoken with in Syria for some time how beaten down they seem to be. And have you changed? Have you lost the hope you had earlier?

AT: Maybe we can say yes. Because seven years, the regime is killing people, and nothing was done from any country from the Security Council to stop this. The regime used the chemical weapons. Nothing was done to stop them. Hundreds of thousands of people were killed under torture by air jets, and nothing was done. Because of this, we think that Idlib will not be different from Aleppo, or Damascus, or Homs, or other cities which Assad destroyed them and displaced their people.

CO: How do you continue? How is it you are able to go to your hospital to work, knowing the danger he will be in when you're there?

AT: Is very stressful for us, but we must do something.

CO: And what does your wife think about you going to the hospital?

AT: It was very stressful for her.

CO: And you have kids?

AT: Yes, five-years, three-years, and one-year.

CO: And how are they doing?

AT: Actually, they are fine. They don't know what is happening yet.

CO: Before we started the interview, we could hear you. You were putting your kids to bed, and they were laughing. How do you keep their spirits up? How do you keep your home functioning, and keep your family together knowing what's coming?

AT: So it is very stressful for us because we’re afraid of our families, our kids. But we are not able to do anything else. So just we are trying to keep calm and not tell the kids that there is dangerous or there is any bad thing will come.

CO: And what will they do? What will your wife and children do when the attack begins with full force?

AT: I don't know. Maybe we'll try to leave the city and go to areas around the cities.

CO: So at this point, you don't really have a plan?

AT: Actually, no possible plan.

CO: Dr. Tennari, I'm so sorry for what you're facing. And I admire your courage though, and thank you.

AT: Welcome.

CO: Goodnight.

AT: Thank you. Goodbye.

JD: Dr. Abulhai Tennari is a physician at a hospital in Idlib Province, in a town just outside Idlib City. That’s where we reached him.

[Music: Ambient]

Ocean Cleanup

Guest: Lonneke Holierhoek

JD: The system has been described as a "massive pool noodle." And the Dutch group behind it has high hopes that this high-tech noodle could help remove a significant amount of plastic from a part of the ocean in the future. The organization is called The Ocean Cleanup. And this weekend, it launched a beta version of its system into the sea. The project has raised tens of millions of dollars in donations, and has been backed by notable investors. But not everyone is convinced it's the best plan. Experts have concerns about the effect the system will have on marine wildlife. Lonneke Holierhoek is the COO of The Ocean Cleanup. We reached her in Leiden, in the Netherlands.

CO: Ms. Holierhoek, we have described this in our introduction as a massive pool noodle, which I don't think does it justice. Can you describe what this looks like?

LONNEKE HOLIERHOEK: I find it an interesting analogy calling it a pool noodle. But yes, there is some resemblance. The Ocean Cleanup system is a 600-metre long floater. And a floater basically consists of a large diameter tube. And beneath that tube, there is a skirt attached. And the skirt is an impenetrable cloth three metres deep.

CO: And how does it work? What's it going to do in order to collect the plastic trash in the ocean?

LH: This system will have the tendency to move in a “C” shape or a “U” shape, driven by the forces of nature, so by the wind and the waves in the ocean. In that way, it will move faster through water than the floating plastic does. And therefore, catching up the plastic, and catching it all inside of the “C” shape. Increasing the concentration inside of the Cleanup system, which facilitates, which helps in getting it out more effectively.

CO: And how much trash — how much plastic — do you think this system can actually collect?

LH: Well, we've made our calculations based on a full fleet of these systems. And we have a fleet of about 60 of them. We will reduce the concentration, which is currently in the Great Pacific Garbage Patch by 50 per cent in five years. That is removing more than 40,000 tonnes of plastic.

CO: What’s the size of that patch as far as we know?

LH: It's an area between Hawaii and San Francisco, and it's approximately twice the size of Texas, or three times France. So it's in a vast area. And it's far away offshore. But the concentration of plastic in there has risen. And it accumulates there because the currents are circular. And once the plastic floats inside of this patch, it is not able to get out again.

CO: People are admiring this project. Admiring the passion and the dedication to the Ocean Cleanup, as this system is called. But a lot of people are questioning it. So I'm going to put the questions to you, and get you to answer them. One of them is that the screen that hangs down that's to move the plastic is three meters deep. And one criticism is that this would be just skimming the surface, whereas the plastic isn't just floating on in the top or in the top metres. It's quite deep at this point. It sinks quite quickly. So why do you think this will be effective against that plastic?

LH: Yeah, it's correct that some plastics do sink. Obviously, it all depends on the different polymers. But most of the plastic will sink quite near the coast. And the plastic that doesn't sink can either end up on a beach somewhere where you can pick it up and you can clean it up. But a part of it will not move on to a beach, and will proceed on to the ocean. And at some point, it will end up in one of those five gyres that the world's oceans have. The Great Pacific Garbage Patch being the biggest of them. And once it's there, it means that it is floating plastic. And we have tested the presence of plastic throughout the deeper areas in that area — in that part of the ocean — and we didn't find any plastics beyond two or three metres.

CO: OK, next criticism is the concerns about what effect it might have on fish, on marine life. That such a device like this can actually get coated in algae and plankton and draw fish into it, and actually become they call it a fish aggregation device. It can actually attract life and fish and actually kill them. So what concerns do you have about the impact you might have on the marine life?

LH: With the Ocean Cleanup, all of us are doing this we’re trying to save the ocean. So we're doing this because we love the ocean and the marine life that exists in it. So the last thing we would want to do is harm it. And for that reason, we've taken extra care in designing a system which is safe from catching or entangling any animals. So there’s no loose things that any sort of animal could get entangled with. And besides that, because the cloth that's beneath it the skirt is impenetrable, there's a downdraft, which means that a lot of the animals will basically be transported underneath it, passing it quite simply. It's moving quite slow as well. So it's also quite easy for animals to escape it — to swim out of it. We've tested the fowling aspect of it, etc. and there remain some questions about it acting as a fish aggregation device, which we decided to investigate further. So we're doing quite an extensive study on that to compare the fish aggregation effect that our system could have compared to the fish aggregation effect that is already present with the floating debris and the floating plastic which is already out there. So we will study that. And if anything comes up that we need to adjust our method or our system, we will do so. Besides all of our own safety measures against harming animals, we've also found it important that we ask and external third party for its opinion. And they have forums and assessments of our system — an environmental impact assessment. And it was found that there was low to negligible risk to any marine life.

CO: You're going to continue studying it. So would you discontinue this project if you found that it was having such an effective marine life?

LH: If we can't fix it in a way that it's safe for marine life, yeah, we may have to. But we are convinced that the measures we're taking now are sufficient. And if they're not, we are very eager to improve our measure so that it is minimising any harm.

CO: Alright, well I hope that you do have some success with this. And it is as you are anticipating. Ms. Holierhoek, thank you very much.

LH: You're welcome. Thank you, Carol.

CO: Goodnight.

JD: Lonneke Holierhoe is the COO of The Ocean Cleanup project. We reached her in Leiden, the Netherlands.

[Music: Ambient]

Red Deer auction

Guest: Ben Keryluke

JD: In May of this year, Brent and Nicole Keryluke died in a motorcycle crash near Innisfail, Alberta. Their two young children are now cared for by Brent's parents, Ben and Marilyn. The kids have hearing impairments. And, faced with the additional medical costs, their grandparents made a very, very tough decision. They chose to sell the vintage Pontiac Parisienne that Brent had prized and restored over the years. The dark cherry red 1973 Parisienne went to auction this weekend. And the outcome overwhelmed the still-grieving family. We reached Ben Keryluke in Red Deer, Alberta.

CO: Ben, I know that this car has considerable value as a vehicle — as an antique. But what did it mean to your family? What value did it have to you?

BEN KERYLUKE: Well, I guess the value to me is that it was Brent's car. That's probably one of the first projects that is actually completed. Where you know it's a big project to take out the motor, rebuild it, and the transmission, and everything else. And it means a lot to have him do that himself and have a good running car now.

CO: And Brent, of course, is your son, who died in this terrible accident — this motorcycle crash just in May.

BC: That's correct.

CO: I'm so sorry.

BC: Well, thank you for that.

CO: So Brent loved cars, loved motorbikes, and he loved this vehicle as well?

BC: Yeah. When he was growing up, I had a 1938 Chevy hot-rod. He grew up going to a lot of hot-rod events. So he loved hot-rods. And then I sold the 38 Chevy, and I got into muscle cars from the 60s. He drove my 69 Beaumont when he was 14. He drove it most of the time to Vancouver and back with his learner's permit. So I mean he loved the old cars. And most of the muscle cars that are two doors, so he was having a family so you have a bigger car, and four doors. So that's why he bought this Pontiac.

CO: And he has his wife, Nicole, shared his passion. And unfortunately, she also died in that crash in May.

BC: That's correct, yeah.

CO: You decide to sell the Pontiac in order to raise money to help their children, who you're now raising — these two kids. What are their needs? This is Liam and Arielle. What do they need?

BC: Well, they both have hearing problems, so they both have hearing aids. We have to travel from Red Deer to Calgary for speech therapy, and also for audiologists the to the Children's Hospital in Calgary. They're unbelievable there — helpful and their training is mostly for us, so that we learn how to deal with his disability and learn to get his speech up to where it should be. Arielle is quite good already. But Liam needs quite a bit of work yet.

CO: Arielle is six, and Liam is three, right?

BC: That's correct.

CO: Lovely. Now you took the car to the auction, what happened when the bidding started?

BC: We were hoping to get a minimum of fourteen-thousand dollars for the car. And the bids weren't below fourteen-thousand dollars for long. I think probably the second bid was twenty-thousand. So it went up to twenty-nine thousand, and then was sold. And the person who bought it from Red Deer Motors in Red Deer here gave the car back, and it was auctioned off again. And another person bought it for thirty-thousand dollars, returned it again. And then the owner of Bulldog Metals bought it for twenty-thousand dollars. And then after the auction was over, bob from bulldog Metals came over and said he would like to donate the car back to us.

CO: Now, this is and this isn't just because of the car. They knew where the money was for. How did they know? How did people the auction know why you were selling this Pontiac?

BC: When I decided to take it to the auction, the people at EG Auction they said that they would love to run the car. They will do it with no fees attached whatsoever. They will try to do their best to get what we can for that for the car. And then just before 3:45, they basically stopped the auction, rolled the other cars out, brought Brent's car in, and then they told the story of why it was being sold, and we wanted to keep the car. But, unfortunately, if you can't, you can't. So then they started the auction, and then what happened from there was nothing short of amazing. People were standing up. I don't think there was a dry eye in the house. Everybody was clapping and cheering every bid that came in. It was an incredible atmosphere.

CO: And did you know the people who bought and donated the car to you?

BC: No, I've never met them before. It just shows the generosity of people, and how they support the community, and people that require some assistance that they're all on board. And it's unbelievable.

CO: You went into that action hoping you could make as much as fourteen-thousand dollars for the car. How much money do you come up with?

BC: Actually, the donations haven't stopped yet. So it's over $100,000 for sure by now.

CO: What does that mean for you and your kids?

BC: I was semi-retired, and I'm not retired because I have too much money. I thought I might be able to make it by. And then now we've got two children to raise. And it gives us a little bit of a cushion to fall back on. And then as the kids get older, of course, expenses keep getting more and more all the time.

CO: Does it also give you and your wife a bit of space in order to heal from the loss of your son and his wife?

BC: Of course, it helps a lot. And knowing that there's people out there that care as much as they do, definitely it helps the process for sure.

CO: How does it feel to have Brent’s car back in your yard?

BC: Well, it’s a big car to store. But it'll be used for the odd Sunday afternoon drive, and keep it in good shape until Liam and Arielle are old enough to drive it. And hopefully, they can enjoy their father's car when they get older.

CO: They'll take it and drive off to college together.

BC: Exactly, and half of the other class in there with them.

CO: Ben, this is a very inspiring story. And I really appreciate you sharing it with us. Thank you.

BC: Thank you.

JD: We reached Ben Keryluke in Red Deer, Alberta. If you’d like to hear that interview again, of share it, or see a photograph of that very special '73 Parisienne, check out our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: World music]

Cynthia Nixon bagel

JD: On Thursday, the New York Democratic gubernatorial primary will take place. The choices are incumbent Andrew Cuomo, and progressive challenger Cynthia Nixon. Mr. Cuomo is running on his record. Ms. Nixon is running on a promise to make it mandatory for New Yorkers to eat cinnamon-raisin bagels with lox, red onions, capers, tomatoes, and plain cream cheese. Not really. Really, she just ordered that exact bagel — "sweet and salty," as she put it — at Zabar's Cafe in New York City on Sunday. And now, that's become the September equivalent of an October surprise — orchestrated by the candidate herself. On Twitter, people with bagel opinions angrily said her order was the worst, and other people with other bagel opinions angrily said it was the best, then both those groups of people declared each other the worst. I'm paraphrasing, but only slightly. It's Twitter after all. And one or more reporters even asked Cynthia Nixon about her bagel order. To which she replied, quote: "...it's pretty delicious. And I say, don't yuck my yum. Don't knock it until you've tried it." Unquote. Good answer, but naive. Bagel purists are all about knocking what other people try. For example: almost exactly 3 years ago on this program, Carol spoke with New York City food writer Arthur Bovino. At the time, the famous Greenwich Village bagel joint Murray's Bagels had given in to public pressure, and allowed customers to toast their bagels. As you'll hear, that unequivocally yucked Mr. Bovino's yum.

SOUNDCLIP

CO: Arthur, what's wrong with toasting bagels?

ARTHUR BOVINO: Oh my God. I mean here you're taking something that is — if you're having it at the right place — at the pinnacle of its form as it is already. It's already warm and fresh out of the oven. And you're taking that and you're toasting it. I mean it's redundant. Why are you going to toast something that's already warm and toasty?

CO: But if it tastes good that way. I mean also people like it toasted because then you can put the cream cheese on, melt it, get it all soft, and you get that caramelized surface.

AB: Who are these people? Are these New Yorkers? I would argue that these are not native New Yorkers. These are people who don't know any better. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the tide is somehow turning.

CO: OK. I'll put this to you: what happens if the bagel is a day or two old. You know bread that's gone a bit stale, you toast it, it brings it back to life, doesn't it?

AB: See, now this is this is a corollary. I think if it’s quality bagels,2 those are ones that are worth keeping. And then sure, you know you want to sprinkle a little bit of water over it, you want to put it into the toaster oven, and you want it you want to bring it back. That's one thing. But toasting it by bringing it back, I would argue is different than toasting it proper where you start getting toast or marks on the bagel. That to me is a true travesty. That's complete sacrilege.

JD: From September of 2015, food writer Arthur Bovino, sharing bagel commandments with Carol. Well, now we know what Cynthia Nixon will eat, bagel-wise. And we know what she won't eat: her words.

[Music: Ambient]

Part two: 9/11 cold case, International Criminal Court founder

9/11 cold case

Guest: Mike Prate

JD: More than two-thousand, six hundred people were murdered in New York City on September 11 of 2001. Today — 17 years later — only one of those homicides remains unsolved. Hours after the planes slammed into the World Trade Center, a newly arrived Polish immigrant named Henryk Siwiak was shot and killed in Brooklyn. And in the chaotic aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, police couldn't devote the usual resources to investigate his death. And thus, the case went cold. Mike Prate is a now-retired NYPD detective who worked the case on-and-off for years. We reached him in New York City.

CO: Mr. Prate, was Henryk Siwiak doing on the night of September the 11^th, 2001.

MIKE PRATE: He was leaving Queens, on his way to start a new job. September 11th at midnight was supposed to be his first night at work. He was going to be a floor cleaner at a local Pathmark on Albany Avenue in Brooklyn.

CO: He’d just come to New York not long before. He was looking for work, trying to raise money. He was a Polish immigrant. So why do you think he was headed to his job on the night of September 11^th — the attacks of that day?

MP: So he had been hunting for a job for quite a long time. And they finally were able to find this job, and that was going to be his first night starting. So I think it's just coincidence that his first night was that night.

CO: And what happened to Henryk Siwiak?

MP: What we believe happened is that he got the wrong directions. Let's say the building that he was supposed to be going to is like that thirteen hundred block of Albany Avenue. And the directions that they gave him took him to the one block of Albany Avenue. So he took the wrong train. And unfortunately for him, he got off at the wrong stop. And he we believe that he was possibly the victim of attempted robbery.

CO: Why was he shot multiple times, do you think?

MP: Well, I think he put up a struggle initially. You know from what we were able to gather from people that he had put up a flight struggle with the people who accosted him. And then he was shot both there, and then as he fled he was also shot.

CO: So even in the midst of the horrible carnage of 9/11 that the whole world is watching, crime continued to go on. People continued criminal activity as though nothing else was happening.

MP: Yeah, it was shocking to just about everybody. I believe that was the only homicide in New York City that entire day.

CO: Except for the very big one that was going on in Lower Manhattan.

MP: Correct

CO: And what were you doing that night?

MP: So on that day of September 11^th, I was assigned to a homicide shooting task force. And we had been out looking for a homicide subject. And then once everything happened in Manhattan, we were then assigned to the footbridge down at the bottom of the bridge of the Manhattan Bridge to make sure that traffic was able to flow, emergency vehicles were able to get into the city. And then once our tour ended, then we went down, of course, to Ground Zero — to the pile. And then we worked at the pile.

CO: And for you, what are the images, what are the moments that have stayed with you over all these years?

MP: Traditionally for me, the initial viewing of the towers on fire that has always for me been something I remember. I did a bunch of work at the Staten Island landfill. It's hard to describe, when all the debris from lower Manhattan was barged or trucked up to the Staten Island landfill. And in the beginning, you would rake through piles to find remains, personal belongings, identification stuff. So that's where we spent a lot of time up there. And then lastly was the work in the morgue. So as a homicide detective, you would be assigned to body parts or any type of remains that were found. And you would escort them through the morgue’s identification process.

CO: That sounds just something you could never forget. Even though you were a homicide detective, that must have been just absolutely the most horrible thing.

MP: Yeah, it was absolutely incredible. And then you know again then you have the individual relationships that you have with people — family, friends who you later found out had been down there and never came home. So it was quite overwhelming.

CO: And at what point did you get back into the routine of your regular job in the NYPD, and find out about Henryk Siwiak?

MP: Well, so I was in the detective squad that happened on. And then you know the guys who were working at night who were assigned the case they held on to that case and worked it. And then what would happen is right around the 10th anniversary, a lot of the detectives assigned to that case had retired. So we at the 10 year anniversary picked up, my partner and I, as a cold case. And we tried to do a bunch of different stuff to you know get leads and generate interest in the case. So that was getting the mayor's reward to be upped to a significant amount, tracking down all witnesses and people who were incarcerated. You know just to see if anybody knew anything about that. And then I worked it from that 10th Anniversary until I retired, and now that's in the hands of the Cold Case Squad now.

CO: Why did it stay with all of you? Why was it something that you and others just couldn't leave?

MP: I would just say for myself, Mr. Siwiak was a true victim, right? So he just got off the wrong train at the wrong stop. Bad directions put him in a bad place. And then after that, the true the true power of what we do at NYPD and the investigation it just wasn't there. The traditional crime scene, the traditional manpower to go out there and do canvasses. It was a traditional victim who didn't really get what he deserves, you know?

CO: And he had a wife and kids back home in Poland that were depending on him. And did you ever have contact with them? Do you know who was left behind?

MP: Yeah, I personally never had any contact with overseas. I dealt at times with his sister, who is still here.

CO: What's it been like for them for 17 years not to know what happened to their brother and their father?

MP: You know they are seeking closure, right? They have a family member who is the victim of a murder. They have no answers. So it gnaws on them, you know? You know like any victim’s family, you try to do the best to bring them closure. And they just haven't they haven't received it yet, you know?

CO: Do you think it will ever be solved — that murder?

MP: I believe every homicide can be solved. You have to take into account technology has brought in so many different aspects. So I really do believe that eventually, they’re going to get information on that. And that's something that will be solved eventually.

CO: Mr. Prate, I really appreciate speaking with you, and hearing this story. Thank you.

MP: No, it's an honor and a privilege. Thank you.

CO: Take care. Bye bye.

JD: Mike Prate is a retired NYPD detective. We reached him in New York.

[Music: Horns]

International Criminal Court founder

Guest: David Scheffer

JD: America's National Security Adviser John Bolton is not known for mincing words. But even by his standards, his speech attacking the International Criminal Court yesterday was astonishing. Mr. Bolton savagely criticized the court, and promised retaliation against the ICC, including sanctions, if it follows through with investigations of alleged war crimes committed by US troops and intelligence officials in Afghanistan. Here is part of John Bolton's speech in Washington, D.C. yesterday.

SOUNDCLIP

JOHN BOLTON: The United States will use any means necessary to protect our citizens and those of our allies from unjust prosecution by this illegitimate court. We will not cooperate with the ICC. We will provide no assistance to the ICC. And we certainly will not join the ICC. We will let the ICC die on its own. After all, for all intents and purposes, the ICC is already dead to us.

JD: David Scheffer is America's former ambassador-at-large for war crimes issues, and one of the founders of the International Criminal Court. We reached Mr. Scheffer in Chicago.

CO: Ambassador Scheffer, when you hear that from the National Security Adviser of your country calling this court that you help to create that it has unjust prosecutions of an illegitimate court. What's your response?

DAVID SCHEFFER: Well, the first response, of course, is one of great disappointment because he has made statements that convey arrogance. They are inaccurate. And they are without hope. In other words, he's retreated from the world scene. He has abdicated American leadership in international justice. And his notion that the United States will let it die and that it already is dead. Of course, is his own perception, which most of the rest of the world does not have. And neither does much of the United States. Polls annually in the United States show that the American people support by majority figures the International Criminal Court. So his is a strictly minority view. But, of course, he is in a position of power now. And it is the Trump administration that he is speaking for. I don’t want to make this personal. It's an administration point of view.

CO: But at the same time, the United States has kept its distance from this court. It did not ratify the Rome Treaty establishing the court. We know that President Obama got a bit closer. But United States has not been a member of this court. So how is this so different? He's making it quite bold and blatant in what he has to say, but how is it different from how the United States has treated the ICC up to now?

DS: Oh, quite different because he has essentially terminated American cooperation and diplomatic support for the cause. You know during the Obama administration, and even during the latter part of the George W. Bush administration, the level of U.S. engagement with the International Criminal Court in a constructive and positive manner actually increased very, very significantly. There came a point frankly when I expressed the view publicly that while the United States is not technically a member state of the court, it has essentially become a de facto state party in the sense of how it has used its diplomatic power, its military power, its financial power to assist the court. And these are acts of cooperation and assistance that do not make the news. But we know they were there. And so what he has done is he has slammed the door shut completely. And that is a very different step. He also has basically predicted the death of the court. Now that has not been the position of the U.S. government at all before this moment. And so that is a different step as well.

CO: He is saying I'll use all means necessary to prevent the court from pursuing this investigation. What exactly is it that he's referring to? What is the ICC — the International Criminal Court — possibly going to investigate in the way of alleged war crimes committed by U.S. troops and intelligence officials in Afghanistan?

DS: Well, they have had this under what we call preliminary examination for many years. And now the prosecutor has reached the stage where she is asking the judges to determine whether or not she can move forward with an official investigation. By the way, the Afghanistan situation is about 95 to 97 per cent a situation of crimes by the Taliban that she's investigating. And then there's a sliver of crimes involving about 88 individual victims on allegations of torture, rape, etc. that pertain to U.S. military and Central Intelligence Agency officials in her pleading before the judges. So if she gets a green light from the judges, then it doesn't mean that suddenly indictments come down or anything. Actually, what it means is that she can proceed with an official investigation. But that's exactly what concerns the Trump administration. They do not want any U.S. government personnel to be subject to an official investigation. So he's laying down the marker that if she proceed with that, then the United States could react or will react.

CO: Just finally, because the Mr. Bolton who is saying is so severe and the threat is so large. We know that the ICC has been looked at as being a breakthrough for impunity. That despots and warlords could no longer hide behind sovereignty. What would the world lose if the ICC was emasculated the way Mr. Bolton would like to?

DS: Oh well, I think the irony is you know he argues that the ICC has not been an effective deterrence because atrocity crimes continue. Well, if you don't have the court, how does that argument play out? Are we to assume that the atrocity crimes will discontinue if the court is not there? So that argument fails on its face. It's not that you're going to somehow have greater deterrence by eliminating the court. I think the issue is are you paying enough respect to the mandate of the court and the objectives of the court to send a powerful signal to these despots and these authoritarian regimes that you take this seriously and so should they. Rather, the message yesterday to the authoritarian regimes was don't take it seriously, and full steam ahead with whatever design you may have. Because we are walking away from the one institution that we know has the capacity to hold you accountable.

CO: Ambassador Scheffer, I appreciate your time. Thank you.

DS: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye bye.

DS: Bye.

JD: David Scheffer is America's former ambassador-at-large for war crimes issues, and one of the founders of the International Criminal Court. We reached him in Chicago.

[Music: World music]

Snake mascot

JD: Okay, listen: let us start by saying in general, the mascots for Major League Soccer teams don't make a lot of sense. The L.A. Galaxy, for example, has a sort of dark blue humanoid with giant yellow eyebrows and hair named "Cozmo", who — according to the team — crashed his "lunar space module" on Earth. The mascot for Portland Timbers FC is Timber Joey. And Timber Joey is just a dude with a chainsaw. Toronto FC has no costumed mascot at all — the Canadian team's mascot is an actual hawk — Bitchy the hawk. So expectations weren't super-high when the Philadelphia Union introduced its mascot yesterday. Its name is Phang, with a "Ph". Because of "Philadelphia", get it? Well, if you do, that's the last thing you'll comprehend for a minute or so. This morning, Phang made an appearance on CBS 3 in Philadelphia. He didn't say anything. But local zookeeper Alli Sewell was there to explain Phang to co-host Pat Gallen.

SOUNDCLIP

PAT GALLEN: Why don't we unveil our friend, Phang. Come on in, Phang.

ALLI SEWELL: Yes. Come on, Phang.

PG: So, Alli. Tell us about our new friend, Phang.

AS: Phang is a snake. But interestingly, he does have arms and legs. And yes, he can dance and wiggle really quite nicely.

JD: Yes. Phang is a six-foot-plus blue snake with punk-rock hairdo and a Union jersey. And arms, and legs. You may be wondering why, how, what, who, why? Well, Ms. Sewell had the answers. Some answers.

SOUNDCLIP

AS: Yeah, he's actually a descendant of the Benjamin Franklin snake that was on the Join or Die cartoon that he wrote years ago. I mean people were asking — they were questioning — why does he have arms and legs, he's a snake? And you know, basic snake anatomy.

PG: What is the answer to this question?

AS: Well, he really wanted to play soccer.

PG: Right. You need the feet for that.

AS: So he took a cleat and he took a soccer ball on to the Philadelphia Union soccer field, waited for lightning to strike, and this happened.

PG: The race is now under siege because snakes have arms legs.

JD: See? It's simple. A snake because it's the Philadelphia Union — and because of Benjamin Franklin's famous "Join or Die" drawing from 1754, featuring a snake in segments. Arms and legs because Phang's origin story says he was struck by lightning after somehow taking a cleat and a soccer ball onto the Union's home field, even though he didn't have arms or legs yet. Also because a child apparently submitted a drawing of a snake mascot. Maybe with arms. Who knows.

[Music: hip-hop]

Part three: Ethiopia/Eritrea border opens, probiotic study

Mulroney NAFTA

JD: Brian Mulroney negotiated the original Canada-U.S. Free Trade Agreement. So he has some perspective on how the current NAFTA negotiations are going. And he's been invited to share it with the Liberal government, which he's been advising on the talks. And today, he shared some of his perspective with reporters, after an event at Library and Archives Canada. Here's some of what he said about bipartisanship during trade negotiations.

[sc]

BRIAN MULRONEY: There are times when it's important that we set aside politics, and come together as colleagues who can help the country a little bit. And that's what I'm pleased to do. I've been working with Mr. Trudeau for certainly a couple of years on this. And Ms. Freeland, who is doing an excellent job, by the way. In fact, I think the government position sustained, which I must say is very important, Rona Ambrose committed the Conservative caucus to support the government on these negotiations. That was very important. And Jim Moore, and Peter MacKay, and others do the same thing. But I must say that the government you know you read all kinds of stuff this criticism of all kinds. This is not an easy business as you can imagine — certainly in recent years. But I think the government of Canada is handling this very complex file well.

JD: Former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney was also asked about the relationship between U.S. President Donald Trump, and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

SOUNDCLIP

BM: I think they've had a very rough patch. But Mr. Trudeau is a very charming young man. And he could make a pretty good case for himself and for Canada. And the president is — this is not negative — he's very mercurial. He's almost Irish sometimes I think, you know? But he's a very mercurial, and he's up and he's down. And I think that the prime minister can work things out with him, so that they can rebuild a pretty good relationship.

JD: And finally, reporters could not resist asking for the former PM's thoughts on the notwithstanding clause of the Constitution — a clause which, of course, yesterday, Ontario Premier Doug Ford said he would use to pass legislation about the size of Toronto City Council — cutting it in half. Mr. Mulroney's daughter, Caroline Mulroney, is Ontario's Attorney-General.

SOUNDCLIP

BM: Well, I won't comment on what's going on currently. I’m staying completely away from that for all kinds of reasons. But I was never a big fan of the notwithstanding clause. And the reason is that if you can conceive of a situation in any other industrialized democracy where given whatever the circumstances, the government of Prince Edward Island can introduce that notwithstanding laws, and override the unanimous decision of the Supreme Court of Canada. You better start asking yourself some questions about how the hell did this thing get in our Constitution? So everybody knows I've I'm not a big fan of it. I never have been. Look, to me, the backbone and the enormous strength of Canada is the independence and the magnificence of our judiciary. And when the Supreme Court of Canada in a unanimous decision says something, decides something, it is vital that that be respected at all times.

JD: Former Progressive Conservative Prime Minister Brian Mulroney, speaking to reporters earlier today.

[Music: Piano]

Ethiopia/Eritrea border

Guest: Ambasejer Kebede

JD: Today is the beginning of the New Year in Ethiopia. And for the first time in 20 years, the border between that country and Eritrea is open. Today, there was a historic and emotional reunion at the Ethiopian border town of Zalambessa, of friends and families separated by more than two decades of conflict. This reopening is just the latest in a series of surprising moves towards peace between the two countries. Back in July, Ethiopia's Prime Minister Ahmed Abiy and Eritrea's President Isaias Afwerki signed a declaration saying that the state of war was over. Since then, the two countries have reopened their embassies, and flights and phone calls have resumed. Ambasejer Kebede was one of the hundreds of people at the Zalambessa border crossing today. We reached him in the city of Adigrat, in Ethiopia.

CO: Ambasejer, first of all, Happy New Year to you.

AMBASEJER KEBEDE: Thank you, and the same to you. We are celebrating in Ethiopia 2011.

CO: What a gift for you on your New Year festivities that you could see your cousin again. What was that like to be reunited at the border?

AK: My god! It was a big gift for me. Since 2001, I didn’t see him. then today, thanks to god, I saw him. I was very happy to see my cousin. And, of course, my follows from Eritrea, and I was really, really happy. And I was really you know emotional. Myself, even I was crying with my colleagues from Eritrea. When I see those guys when you see them they are crying for almost 30 days. Even myself, I started crying. I really started crying.

CO: And you weren't alone at the border, were you? There were hundreds of people who were for the first time seeing family on the other side — the Ethiopian side and Eritrean side. People being reunited for the first time in many years — 20 years, is that right?

AK: Exactly. Exactly. It was almost 20 years. And you know everybody was crying and hugging each other. You when the people love each other, we don't know even what caused this war. And this war was in between two brothers’ war. You will say why did these to people make war? If thy seem like brothers and sisters, then what is cause of this war?

CO: When you saw Ethiopia's Prime Minister Ahmed Abiy and Eritrea's President Isaias Afwerki, when you when you saw them embrace, when you saw that moment when the two of them came together this summer. What were you thinking and feeling when you saw that?

AK: It was amazing. I really cannot explain. It was more that I don't have any word for that emotion. It was too much emotion. No one was dreaming about that. Everybody was just crying, crying, crying — everybody. The president himself said you can see it from his face, he was really emotional also.

CO: It's true, you could really see it. you could really see it. Those two men they really seemed to be committed to making this work, and bringing Ethiopia and Eritrea back together again, didn't they?

AK: Exactly. That's why I'm saying he himself didn’t expect that welcoming from the Eritrean side, you know?

CO: I just want to ask you about your other family members. You got to see your cousin today — very emotional moment. What about your other family members? I understand your wife has not seen her father in 20 years.

AK: My wife is from Eritrea. She don’t see her father for 20 years. And I'm planning to go on Saturday with my wife and with my four children.

CO: And so your wife will see her father, and your children will see their grandfather for the first time, I guess?

AK: Even the grandfather they don’t know my children.

CO: How are you celebrating tonight that you have this opportunity?

AK: If you visit my hotel room, everybody is here. and even if they don’t drink, they are drinking tonight. Everybody is enjoying.

CO: Ambasejer, I really hope that this peace is what it appears to be. And that Ethiopia and Eritrea will remain open to each other. And it's really good to talk to you tonight. Thank you.

AK: Thank you. Everybody also hoping to continue this peace like this. Of course, we have some worry. We don't know how this will go from tomorrow. We really don't know, you know? I hope to have full implementation of peace agreement between two brothers. Not even two countries — two brothers, my dear.

CO: I hope it works out. And I hope you enjoy your celebration tonight. Thank you so much.

AK: Thank you, my dear. And Happy New Year.

CO: Thank you so much. Happy New Year. Bye bye

JD: That was Ambasejer Kebede. We reached him in Adigrat, Ethiopia. Today, again, the border between Ethiopia and Eritrea was open, for the first time in 20 years.

[Music: Ambient]

Pepperdine 1958

JD: Herb Pepperdine was just fourteen years old when he started working in the mines. And then, in 1958, there was a bump — a seismic jolt in the Springhill, Nova Scotia coal mine where he worked. One-hundred-and-seventy-five men were down in the mine at the time. One hundred of them made it out alive. The last of those survivors to emerge — after eight days trapped — was Herb Pepperdine. Mr. Pepperdine died last week. He was ninety-five. CBC's Jack McAndrew spoke to Mr. Pepperdine in hospital just days after the disaster. Here's part of what he had to say, back in 1958

SOUNDCLIP

HERB PEPPERDINE: And we wandered around the wastes looking for water with no lights. I found a whole chocolate bar.

JACK MCANDREW: You found a whole chocolate bar.

HB: Just put my hand down. I could feel something smooth there — a whole bar. But we split it into 14 pieces and made it into two meals.

JM: on 14 pieces.

JD: On the 50th anniversary of the Springhill Mine Disaster, the CBC's Don Connolly spoke with reporter Jack McAndrew, and with Herb Pepperdine. Here's part of that conversation, from our archives. The first voice you'll hear is Mr. Pepperdine's, describing his fear. The fear that he and his fellow miners wouldn't be rescued.

SOUNDCLIP

HP: I think it was maybe about the fifth day or so we could hear sounds. And then we couldn’t hear it no more. That's why I figure they sealed her off.

DON CONNOLLY: When you got out, when they carried you out of the mine in the stretcher, you know many people listening to us this morning across the province probably saw that picture. Give us a sense of what that was like to come out of that mine after eight days?

HP: I couldn't see nothing because I was blindfolded.

JM: Because of the light.

HP: Yeah, ended up at the hospital. And My wife come walk in, and looked around. And the nurse said over here, Dorthy. So she come over to my bed and kept looking at me and looking at me. She says that you, Herb? My god your face is black.

DC: But you come out of the mine, you’re transported to the hospital. At some point during this time, they’re telling you that they know 75 people — many of whom you would know — are dead, right?

HP: Right. I’ve seen a lot of them bead there. I had a brother-in-law killed there, and a number of good friends.

JM: There were dead bodies all around them down there, Don. And where they were, one man was caught in the rock fall. And that was tough. He passed away… what? A day or so before they were finally were found?

HP: Yup, I think he lasted about maybe two days. He used to carry a watch all the time. And if anybody wanted to know the time, they’d holler to him to ask the time, and he’d pull his watch out and give them the time. I was talking to him there, and he took his watch out of his pocket. He said I want you to give them my wife.

JD: From our archives, that was Herb Pepperdine, a survivor of the Springhill Mine Disaster, speaking with CBC's Don Connolly in Halifax in 2008 — along with his friend, former CBC reporter, Jack McAndrew. Herb Pepperdine died last week. He was ninety-five years old.

[Music: Ambient]

Probiotic study

Guest: Jotham Suez

JD: Call it a gut feeling. When researcher Jotham Suez and his team at the Weizmann Institute of Science began researching probiotics — or "good" bacteria — they didn't exactly know what they'd find. They were confident something would come out of all their work on the gut bacteria in the end. But even Mr. Suez was taken aback by what they found. We reached Jotham Suez in Rehovot, Israel.

CO: Professor Suez, what questions did you have about probiotics when you went into this research?

JOTHAM SUEZ: We were actually concerned with two very basic questions about probiotics. And this is perhaps very surprising that these were not really fully addressed yet. The first one was do probiotics even colonize the gastro intestinal tract of humans when you consume them?

CO: What it mean to colonize? Maybe for people who don’t know probiotics, what’s the purpose of them?

JS: Yeah, of course, so when we’re taking probiotics, we’re actually consuming live bacteria. And were expecting these bacteria to beneficially affect our body systems, for example, our immune systems. And one of the new mechanisms by which we think they might act is that they actually adhere to the walls of our gastro intestinal tract and remain there. This is how they can interact with our body. If they do not adhere, if they do not to colonise the body, this means that they are just washed out. And a second question is whether they interact with the gut bacteria in our body? And how do they interact with the gut bacteria? Because probiotics are commonly perceived as a means to improve gastrointestinal health to beneficially modulate the good bacteria in our gut. But perhaps surprisingly, this has not been really validated.

CO: Just to go into your study because the previous examinations have not gone I guess really into the guts of it as your study did. I mean they've been looking at what comes out at the other end and what goes in at the beginning, but not what's actually going on in the intestines. And you got really down and early on this, didn't you?

JS: That's quite a good definition of that. Yes, thank you. I agree. I think one of the limitations of most of the previous sources that they characterise or try to quantify their probiotics in stool samples. And then you assume that the probiotics have colonized that individual. But it might be actually that the probiotics just came out just as they came in — without even interacting with our body. And this is where we found a surprising effect because when you look at these stool samples of people who consume probiotics in all of them. But when you look specifically on the gastrointestinal track, and even more specifically on the bacteria that’s managed to stick, you find that some people are indeed colonizing these probiotics. The probiotics managed to stick into the walls of their intestines. But there are other people although you can still see the probiotics in their stools, you don’t see the probiotics adhering to their gut. That means that in these individuals, the probiotics just came out the way they came in.

CO: So are you saying that they don’t work? Probiotics don't work?

JS: For people that are not colonized, it will also not change the microbiome. Probiotics today might have other beneficial effects on the human body, but they're not colonizing each and every one of us.

CO: The one particular area — and I know you studied this — is that often they are prescribed for people who have been on antibiotics, and on really strong courses of antibiotics. And that because antibiotics do strip your guts, apparently, of this needed bacteria. Do probiotics do anything for those who have taken antibiotics?

JS: Yes. So I think this is really where we were extremely surprised by our findings. What we actually find is that when people consume antibiotics and then they take probiotics, if we compare these individuals to individuals that just take antibiotics and then they let their microbiome recover spontaneously without any treatments, that probiotics is actually worse than not doing anything. So it will delay the repopulation of the good bacteria in our gut.

CO: What do you then recommend to people who are taking probiotics, of which you know there are millions?

JS: Yes. I think specifically in the context of antibiotics, I think one must be really careful. And I think individuals that those taking antibiotics should really consult with their clinician whether or not they should take probiotics or not. I think it might be better to wait to see if there are any gastrointestinal symptoms that arise from the antibiotics before immediately taking probiotics without any indication. In the context of just generally taking probiotics without any underlying medical condition, I think there's currently not enough evidence to support really any beneficial effect for just general improvement of life quality. And I think, again, people need to decide if they want to spend their money on that or not. And they should probably also consult with their clinicians if that's something that they should do.

CO: Well, I think we'll hear from a lot of people who say you’re wrong. But I appreciate your work, and speaking with us. Professor Suez, thank you.

JS: Thank you very much.

CO: Take care. Bye bye.

JD: Jotham Suez is an immunologist at the Weizmann Institute of Science. We reached Mr. Suez in Rehovot, Israel.

[Music: Electronica]

AIH 50 hostage

JD: It's not in the job description. But on March 21^st of 1977, our former host, Barbara Frum, found herself in the middle of negotiating a tense hostage situation. Just before noon, Robert McLagan walked into a Toronto bank, pulled out a gun, and took more than dozen people hostage. Then he got a call from "As It Happens." Here's Barbara Frum speaking with Mr. McLagan, and one of his hostages.

SOUNDCLIP

BARBARA FRUM: Can you tell me what situation you're in?

ROBERT MCLAGAN: I'm in a pretty good situation. Really as long as these callboys out here don’t try anything you know funny.

BF: Yeah.

RM: I’ve got about 15 people up here. They've got nowhere to go. There's really no way that the police can get at me, unless they can smite me, which I doubt.

BF: What are you in there for?

RM: I want to C-130 Hercules aircraft. I don't want to own it. I just want to borrow it.

BF: Where are you going?

RM: A little drive down Africa.

BF: Where?

RM: Uganda.

BF: Why Uganda?

RM: I want to see my pal, Idi Amin.

BF: How’s he your pal?

RM: Well, I'm a fan of his. I've never met the man, but I'm a fan of his. I was a mercenary in the Congo in 65.

BF: Yeah.

RM: I just want to get back down that area that’s all.

BF: Who’d you come in with?

RM: Myself.

BF: What kind of weapons?

RM: Twelve gage pump gun, chopped down.

BF: Why'd you pick that spot?

RM: Just handy. That’s all.

BF: When did you start planning this?

RM: A couple weeks ago. Kicked the idea around.

BF: Did you read it in the newspapers?

RM: Oh, no, no.

BF: All your own?

RM: Yeah. I want a C-130, lady, and that's all. The rest is incidental.

BF: Can we talk to any of the people you're holding there?

RM: Yeah ok. Hang on, I’ll get somebody.

LOIS: Hello.

BF: Hello.

L: Yes, who's speaking?

BF: My name is Barbara Frum. Who are you?

L: My name is Lois.

BF: How are you doing there Lois?

L: Well, could be better, I’d say.

BF: How did this thing start?

L: Well, he just sort of walked in very casually and calmly and pulled out his gun.

BF: When did you realize you're in trouble? How soon after that?

L: Well, I'd say about two seconds afterwards. He told us to lock the doors and close the drapes, and to topple over a couple desks. And for everybody to come up stairs.

BF: How are you being held there? He's let you come to the phone. Is everyone walking around loose?

L: Yes. Well, not walking around. We're all in one room. And he sent me down to get everybody's lunches and waters. So he's treating us very well. And he said he didn't want to hurt anybody. All he wants is apparently some kind of aircraft. So I mean so far, nobody's hurt. There's a few people that are you know not taking the situation too easily.

BF: What does that mean?

L: Well, one girl sort of passed out. And another girl is slightly hysterical. But everybody seems to be okay. I just hope nobody get him excited because then you know you never know what people will do. And since he's the only one with a gun, and we're all up here, you know I just hope everybody gives them what he wants.

JD: From March 21st, 1977, that was former "As It Happens" host Barbara Frum, in conversation hostage, Lois and hostage taker, Robert McLagan. Eventually, "As It Happens" got a police officer on the line. In the end, Robert McLagan surrendered peacefully to police. You can hear that full interview, and watch an animated video of it, on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih. And while you're there, you can check out other special "As It Happens" 50th anniversary stuff, including a nifty interactive timeline of the program. To stay up-to-date on all our 50th anniversary programming, follow our hashtag on Twitter: #AIH50.

[Music: light rock]

Bigfoot juice

JD: According to the website, Axe Dark Temptation Body Spray is a "sensual blast of sweetness and spice that'll keep you on your toes." Obviously, it's meant to appeal to a broad cross-section of potential dates. Who doesn't love a smell that can be described as a "sensual blast"? But the latest scent from home scent creator Allie Webb is intended to appeal to a much more narrow and specific audience. She says, quote, "you need a smell that is woodsy enough to keep from scaring him off. But slightly different enough to make him curious, and come to investigate." Now, when Ms. Webb says "him", she doesn't mean just any dateable guy. She means Bigfoot. This past weekend, the town of Marion, North Carolina held its first annual Bigfoot Festival. There were experts there with evidence of Bigfoot's existence. There were DJs, food vendors, and a scavenger hunt. And there was Allie Webb, selling the product she came up with in her kitchen in Marion: "Bigfoot Juice". Seven bucks a bottle. A product she says does two things at once: repels insects — and attracts sasquatches. If you're skeptical, you should know Ms. Webb's product has been endorsed by John Bruner — the man who organized the Marion Bigfoot Festival. He says that, about a year ago, he used Bigfoot Juice on one of his frequent trips to the forest. And it worked. In his words, quote, "We were doing an expedition and I had one cross the forest service road about 30 yards from where I was at, and I got a really good look at it...and it was just totally exhilarating for me." Unquote. Well, that sensual blast of woodsy odour must have been exhilarating for Bigfoot as well. He clearly got a good whiff of Bigfoot Juice — and assessed it ape-provingly.

September 11, 2018 episode transcript

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