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The AIH Transcript for April 29, 2021

Hosts: Carol Off and Chris Howden

Prologue

CAROL OFF: Hello. I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

CO: A force to be reckoned with. Canada's defence minister says former Supreme Court Justice Louise Arbour can do what his government has failed to do, get to the bottom of the military's sexual misconduct problem.

CH: Desperate for breathing room. As India's COVID cases continue to rise and families fight to find oxygen and care, a doctor in Ahmedabad describes the desperate efforts to keep patients alive.

CO: Retiremint party. The Biden administration plans to ban menthol cigarettes. Our guest celebrates the end of a product that has disproportionately hurt Black people in the United States.

CH: Using empty shells to avoid becoming one. A bored BC jazz musician who like the sounds his pistachios were making, recorded that and other mundane household noises and made a beautiful ambient album to lull you to sleep.

CO: Its name is a four-letter word, starting with F. I'm referring to an artificial intelligence named Dr. Fill, which defeated all human contestants at a major crossword championship this weekend, although those who lost to it might have a different four-letter word in mind.

CH: And hitting the lowing notes. In Denmark this weekend, people gathered for an outdoor classical music performance and were joined by some cattle who liked what they heard. As It Happens. The Thursday Edition. Radio the guesses the musicians were outstanding in their field.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Operation Honour: Sajjan

Operation Honour: Sajjan

Guest: Harjit Sajjan

CH: The Trudeau government has decided it needs outside help to handle the Canadian military's sexual misconduct problem. This morning, the Defence Minister, Harjit Sajjan, announced that former Supreme Court Justice Louise Arbour is going to help establish an independent complaints system. Minister Sajjan also offered an apology to everyone who's been affected by harassment and violence and was not given adequate support. We reached the Minister of Defence, Harjit Sajjan, in Vancouver.

CO: Minister Sajjan, along with your announcement today, you apologised to those who have suffered from any kind of sexual harassment. At the same time, we have new numbers from the Department of National Defence that they logged 581 reports of sexual assault in the past five years, 221 incidents of sexual harassment. What has been going on in the Canadian military under your authority?

HARJIT SAJJAN: Well, when we formed government in 2015, we were focussed on creating a culture of inclusivity. Even from when we launched our defence policy, we focussed on putting our people number one. Clearly, the efforts that we have put into place, the progress that we have made is not enough and we need to do more. And that's what today's announcement was about to making sure that we have an external body to look at how complaints come in. And with the Madame Arbour doing this work will allow us to take the actions that are absolutely necessary and also to make the changes inside the CAF and national defence that will allow for independent reporting structure that will have much greater teeth to hold perpetrators to account.

CO: Okay. You have had that recommendation on the books for six years. Louise Arbour very very capable. But you had another former Supreme Court justice, Marie Deschamps, six years ago, not under your government, did a blistering report on sexual harassment within the forces, made recommendations including having an independent body, and that was ignored. So why should we believe that you're going to do it differently?

HS: No, the steps that were taken place -- and first, I want to thank Madame Deschamps for really putting a microscope on this work because it did focus everyone. But clearly, the work was not enough. The smrs and the independence that was put in place there, we have clearly seen was not enough to making sure that it gave confidence to survivors. We've also seen the fear of reprisal as well. And that's what we're looking at now, is to take bold action to change the structure in place that will look at not only providing support, to provide legal support, and also possibly even the investigative side as well. This is what the Madame Arbour will take a look at. The action that we're looking at now is going even beyond what we have taken place, because we need to re-earn that trust with the survivors and get to a place where actually preventing these incidents from taking place, and when it comes to sexual violence and or any types of misconduct.

CO: Why should anyone trust you at this point? I mean, given those who left the forces, those who were there, the complaints you've heard. You put in place, Operation Honour, which was supposed to root out this kind of behaviour, and even the person in charge of that, the chief of defence staff has been accused of gross misconduct. So why should anyone trust you to get it right?

HS: Announcements obviously doesn't create confidence. Actions actually do. And since the time that we formed our government in 2015, the steps that we have taken, the emphasis -- the strong emphasis -- we put in the entire government when it comes to gender equity is something that we take very seriously -- even in our defence policy, by putting our people as chapter number one to putting a focus there, to making sure that the women have the right equipment, the right uniforms. Those are the actions that are needed. And we can go through a number of list of things that we're trying to do. But we also know at the same time when actions are not enough, we need to be even more bold. And that's what we're doing now, is taking even greater bold action to making sure that we build that confidence.

CO: Okay. Having an ability to complain and have that go some place is one thing. But we're talking about a culture here, aren't we? And as you well know, there's a power dynamic within any military that makes consensual sex all but impossible, doesn't it? And so that's what forces around the world, militaries around the world have been grappling with. Doesn't the Department of National Defence get that principle?

HS: This is one principle that we're going to be acting upon very aggressively -- to act upon any type of abuse of power. The power dynamics that we see when it's within the chain of command, those are the things that we're going to be looking at very deeply. But also take a look at how do we change things so that the power dynamic does shift, that if there's ever a misconduct complaint that a person can have not only confidence in the system because it will be truly independent, not only based on from what we have done before, but it's going to be bold action that will require organisational changes.

CO: I'm talking about cultural changes. Are you talking about cultural changes here or talking about a complaint system...

HS: I am talking both because both are going to be needed. We need to be able to, for the survivors who have complaints that are coming forward, we need to be able to deal with that. But at the same time, we need to at the same time, focus on the culture as well and true culture change. And we heard from many folks and even from my own experience, it has to happen at the lower levels. And that's what we're going to be focussed on even more than what we have in the past.

CO: Can I suggest that given that the senior commanders have been accused of this kind of misconduct, it doesn't need to start the bottom, it needs to start from the top.

HS: Absolutely. And this is one of the reasons why, and stated very clearly, we're going to be looking at how senior leaders are selected, how senior leaders are promoted. We're going to be looking at the evaluation system. We're going to be looking at a system that, regardless of rank or position, that somebody will actually have the authority to be able to not just listen to a complaint, but look at the investigative side and take it even further. So we want to look at all the systems that are currently in place. And the reason Madame Arbour is needed to do this work, her expertise is going to be needed because of the organisational changes that may be required for this. But our ultimate goal has always has to be and needs to be is culture change. And it's easy to say, but very hard to do, obviously.

CO: Just very briefly and finally, doesn't this work begin by admitting that you have failed these women who have made these complaints, failed the women and the people who have complained within these ranks?

HS: Clearly, the survivors who have come forward, the system that we had failed them. The process that we had that we thought we had in place that they could go to has not worked. And this is why we're doing. This is why we're sincerely apologising to all the survivors who have experienced this type of misconduct up to including sexual assault is absolutely unacceptable. And it's why we need to take a very aggressive and stronger action to make those changes. And as I stated words don't create confidence -- actions do. And that's exactly what we're going to be focussing on.

CO: We will be watching. Minister Sajjan thank you very.

HS: Thank you so much.

CO: Harjit Sajjan is Canada's Minister of National Defence. We reached him in Vancouver.

[Music: Pop Music]

FDA Menthol Cigarettes Ban

Guest: LaTrisha Vetwa

CH: If the Biden administration gets its way, smokers in the US will no longer be able to get a hit of mint when they inhale. The Food and Drug Administration is pushing ahead with a plan to ban menthol cigarettes. That's something anti-smoking advocates have been calling for, for a long time. Menthol cigarettes are much more popular and devastating to the health of Black Americans. And the product has been marketed to Black communities for decades. LaTrisha Vetwa is a Minneapolis commissioner and a longtime campaigner for a ban on menthol cigarettes. We reached her in Minneapolis.

CO: LaTrisha, how did you react when you heard this announcement from the federal government today?

LATRISHA VETWA: I cried when I heard this announcement because I had been hearing rumblings about it, but I just didn't think it was going to happen.

CO: And what is it that made you emotional?

LV: It's a win for Black people. It's a win for the African-American community, you know, in the country for all African-American people that have been targeted by big tobacco.

CO: Now, this was something that the administration put in their release. The existence of these menthol cigarettes disproportionately affects Black Americans. Why is that? Why is it a bigger problem amongst Black Americans and than others?

LV: Well, Black Americans have been targeted by big tobacco. At a time where we didn't see ourselves in publications, big tobacco put us in Jet magazine and Essence magazine. Those are magazines that specifically target the Black community. You know, they are predators in the Black community. In the 70s and in the 80s, they would sponsor big music festivals in the Black community. They would show up at cheque cashing places and liquor stores and give out free products. Any places where Black community members would gather to have fun, to just enjoy life, they were there distributing free tobacco products.

CO: What was the effect of the menthol cigarettes in those communities? How many more young Black people, Black youth got addicted to tobacco because of those products?

LV: I mean, we're talking about generations of Black youth. My sister is a menthol smoker. My father was a menthol smoker. My sister's two adult children are menthol smokers. And this is because, you know, we know that kids in smoking households are more than likely to begin smoking. Menthol products make it easier to start and harder to quit. So this is three generations of my family of menthol smokers.

CO: Why do you think it's taken so long? Because there was a ban on flavoured cigarettes quite a while ago. Why do you think that menthols continue to be on the market?

LV: When you think about the Black community in the United States in particular, you know, our disparities are not put at the top of the list for things to get done, right. Plus, you're making money off of us. We're dying at faster rates, but you're hooking us long enough to stay wealthy. And so because Black people aren't always a priority, you know, we don't see policies that are going to help our health outcomes or that's going to make, you know, the financial impact different in our communities. Again, the first time around, I was disappointed because I would have thought that the FDA would have loved to support the Black community because all we talk about are health disparities, that's it. And how Black folks are affected by cancer, heart disease, all of these diseases, you know, at much higher rates and die sooner because we have less access to health care.

CO: And so why do you think that in 2021 it's finally come about that menthol cigarettes may be banned?

LV: I think all the work that we have been doing all around the country has really shown decision makers that this is a social justice issue, that Black folks deserve better. The tobacco industry has preyed on this community for years and years and years, and it's time for decision makers to speak up for this community. There's been so much energy put around working with the Black community, working to make our lives as meaningful, as healthy as others in this country. And now is the time -- it's put up or shut up time. Everyone in this country put out big statements about how they want to support the Black community. This is one way that you can support Black lives, and I'm excited that it's happening finally.

CO: There are some concerns from groups like the ACLU who worry that Black people might actually face other problems in enforcement if these products are banned because they may be targets for charges. Is that a concern you have?

LV: Those for me, as someone who's been doing this work for a long time, are scared tactics. Those are tobacco industry scare tactics. They pay leaders in the Black community to go around inciting that fear in our communities. There is no data to show that any such thing is going to happen. We actually see the opposite in our communities. When folks don't have access, they are less likely to use. I imagine that more Black people are going to quit and they're going to be healthier.

CO: But the law itself does not target the consumers, right? It's targeting...

LV: Absolutely no. There are no penalties to target the consumer. There will be no fines if a Black person is caught outside with a pack of illegal cigarettes. The penalty is on the sellers.

CO: Can you see members of your own family who smoke these menthol cigarettes, do you think they'll quit or do you think they'll switch to something else?

LV: The one thing I know for sure is people who've smoke menthol, smoke menthol. I've been around menthol smokers my entire life. I've witnessed my own sister ask someone for a cigarette. And when it wasn't menthol, she said, no, thank you. I've had these conversations with her. I've done this work for 15 years. She's always been supportive of my work because she sees it as a way to help her curb her addiction.

CO: And do you think she will?

LV: She definitely will. When we pass the Minneapolis policy -- we were actually interviewed together and she said in that interview, you know, if I don't have it at my corner store, I will smoke less because something in me says, don't travel to go get that. But if it's closer, she's going to get it. I think this is going to be the incentive that she needs to quit this, to quit this ugly addiction forever.

CO: All right. That's good to hear. LaTrisha it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

LV: Thank you so much.

CH: LaTrisha Vetaw is a Minneapolis commissioner and a longtime campaigner for a ban on menthol cigarettes. She spoke to us from Minneapolis.

[Music: Synth Music]

NL Musician

Guest: Patrick Boyle

CH: Music can transport us. Hearing Edith Piaf might make you feel like you're in a smoky Paris nightclub, put on some Joao Gilberto and your feet are sinking into a sandy Brazilian beach. When you put Patrick Boyle's new album on, you're transported into his apartment, hearing all the mundane sounds apartments make: the loud heater, a car driving by, a clinking bowl of nuts, a plane overhead, and sometimes it feels like you're kind of underwater.

[MUSIC: PATRICK BOYLE'S MUSIC]

CH: That's a cut from jazz musician Patrick Boyle's latest album called Lull: Sounds for Sleep. It is 5 hours and 30 minutes long. And it's the product of a musician with a lot of free time on his hands during a pandemic. We reached him in Esquimalt, B.C..

CO: Patrick, if I told you I nodded out while listening to that, would you be offended or thrilled?

PATRICK BOYLE: Totally thrilled, especially because it's you. If you're not listening to the music, I'm doing it right.

CO: All right. Well, I am awake. And so I didn't quite nod out, but I can imagine people do. What is it you want them to experience?

PB: Well, it's such a stressful time. And I think any aspect where you can get some sense of control over our lives again seems to be important. I mean, even my doing this record, making a five and a half an hour sleep record, I did it to get away from all the contingency fatigue. can't record and play music with people like you normally do. So this helped focus me. And I just think the moments where we can choose what we willfully really pay attention to, I think that helps restore some amount of control. And it sets the table for a good night's sleep, I hope.

CO: Can you describe what someone would likely hear in this five and a half hour album?

PB: I think how sound inhabits any type of space is really really important. So, okay, you and I are talking right now, you hear our voices. Our voices are in the kitchens and the cars and the headphones and how people are choosing to have our sound inhabit their space. So I just wanted to make a fairly long project where the conditions are there so people can focus their own attention and maybe inhabit a space that is maybe more functionally tranquil. So you don't hear a whole lot of toe tap and melodies. You don't hear a lot of driving beats. This is something to perhaps act as a friend in a potentially very stressful time for people.

CO: You are a jazz trumpeter and you teach music at the University of Victoria, but we're not hearing any trumpets in these cuts. So how did you produce the sounds? Where do they come from?

PB: I'm very lucky to have a nice apartment on the water here in Esquimalt, British Columbia. But I've run towards all the sounds in the house that I don't understand that I find mystifying like the heater. The heater sound is annoying until you record it and then effect it a little and actually the heaters are lovely drone. The plumbing is a nightmare here and it just sounds great when you record it. Reimagining just some of the sounds in the house alongside some piano. And there's some duduk in there.

CO: And let's play another clip. This is called Everythingness. And it's a 48-minute track and you can tell us what we're hearing. So here it is.

[MUSIC: PATRICK BOYLE'S "EVERYTHINGNESS]

CO: We're not going to play 48-minutes, but that gives you an idea. [Laughter] What is the sound?

PB: Well, you know, Carol, pistachios need to sort of earn their keep a bit more. They're very expensive. They're hard to eat. They may be nourishing, but they cost a lot of money. So around the house there are a pistachio shells in a bowl and I'm running my fingers through this bowl and I'm like, this sounds rather soothing. I think people might actually like to hear this. So what you just played there for a moment was some pistachio shells.

CO: Would any of this have occurred to you if you weren't stuck in your apartment 24/7?

PB: Probably not. There's going to be so much great music from musicians all over the world as a result of this -- maybe the only COVID silver lining is that there's a spate of creativity. But I am interested in how music affects space and how it can empower people.

CO: Do you think that people in their homes are having these same kinds of moments and that the sounds of their own houses might be actually overwhelming them a bit?

PB: Absolutely, yeah. And I'm lucky I have a nice, comfortable place and I like the sound. In fact I like the sound so much, I recorded them for five and a half hours and I figured maybe there's someone out there, not in that position, who actually has even less control over what their space sounds like. So I try to share some of my comfort with everyone else.

CO: But you don't want them to stop and pay attention, right?

PB: That's true. I wouldn't operate heavy machinery while I have this on. I mean, I'm totally cool if people want to bop around their living room instead of sleep to this. I called it sleep because or Sounds For Sleep because I do know that there's lots of people out there who are having a real hard time, having arguments with themselves, looking up at the ceiling, thinking 'how am I going to get through tomorrow?' So if this helps in any way, then I'm all for it.

CO: I'm not sure too many people will bop around the room to pistachio nuts.

PB: Well, then I guess I'll have to work on volume two. [Laughter]

CO: How has the pandemic affected you as a musician, just in general?

PB: I'm worried, to be honest. I worry a lot about the vulnerability of venues. We talk about what's going to happen when this is all over or what even all over means. I know that there's so many musicians hurting. I'm blessed -- I'm a tenured professor at a great university and I'm so lucky. But I look to my students and they are some of the most adaptable, eager, and exciting musicians that I've ever met, especially the ones who just came in out of a kind of a crappy Grade 12 who are now in first year university, everything's online. They're the ones that are truly exciting. How do we make music when we're not sharing the air together? What do we do? And we're sort of finding that answer together.

CO: We've been talking to a lot of musicians over this pandemic and just about the lack of a connection with an audience, having a roomful of people, the energy you draw on when you're in the presence of people and not having that has been the most soul crushing part of it.

PB: No doubt. I also think too about audiences, the idea that, you know, we have now a generation of audiences who are very very comfortable listening to live stream concerts on laptop speakers, et cetera. And I really hope that they come out when they can. I don't mean to be dark about it, but I do legitimately worry about it and it scares me.

CO: I understand, though, with this album, there is a mask that comes with it, right?

PB: That's right. My wife, Jenny Ambrose, is a professional sewist and she has made an incredible set of cotton sleep masks that are part of a bundle with the record. And let's say you hate the music, but you like the mask, I'm fine with that. Whatever gets you to sleep, whatever gets you back to some semblance of 'I'm in charge of my life again.' That's what it's for.

CO: And getting a night's sleep.

PB: Yeah, absolutely.

CO: Patrick, it's good to talk to you. Thanks.

PB: What a gift it is to talk to you. Thank you.

CH: Patrick Boyle is a jazz musician who teaches jazz studies at the University of Victoria. His new album is called Lull: Sounds for Sleep. We reached him in Esquimalt, B.C..

[Music: Guitar Music]

Dr. Fill

CH: Every super villain has an origin story. Usually they don't fit in and they're mocked and shunned, so they retreat to a layer and create a plan to destroy their enemies. And then the super villain unleashes hell and does one of those [CHRIS DOES AN EVIL LAUGH] laughs. We don't know whether Matt Ginsberg laughed like that on Sunday, but rest assured to some crossword purists, Mr. Ginsberg is a super villain, as is his world annihilating sidekick, Dr. Fill. I don't mean Dr. Phil, the TV guy, although he is a super villain. I mean an artificial intelligence named Dr. Fill, designed specifically to fill in crossword puzzles. Matt Ginsberg, who is an Oxford educated astrophysicist, told Slate magazine, 'I sucked at crosswords and it just pissed me off.' But rather than, you know, not do them, Mr. Ginsberg set about crafting an elaborate revenge against crossword puzzles. He spent 10 years shovelling information into the AI, including databases of crossword clues and answers and Wikipedia -- like all of Wikipedia. And on Sunday, after years of improving results, the supervillain and his robot henchmen finally did the unthinkable. Dr. Fill won the American Crossword Puzzle Tournament. They didn't get the prize money, mind you, but they did conquer their nemesis: the defenceless puzzles themselves. And what's next in their plan for world domination? Well, fill in the blanks.

[Music: Trumpet Music]

Part 2: Why cellists in Denmark are performing weekly live concerts — for cows

India Covid

Guest: Dhiren Shah

CH: The patients who make it into Dhiren Shah's Hospital are the lucky ones. Dr. Shah is a cardiac specialist at the Care Institute of Medical Sciences in Ahmedabad, India. That's in Gujarat, where an ever worsening surge of COVID-19 has overwhelmed the region's health infrastructure. Families have been sent scrambling for oxygen to help their loved ones breathe and then from hospital to hospital to find those loved ones beds. And inside the hospitals, the situation is desperate as well. We reached Dhiren Shah in Ahmedabad.

CO: Dr. Shah, how would you describe the situation that you and your colleagues are now facing?

DHIREN SHAH: I would say it is one of the most unprecedented and one of the most horrifying situation that everybody's going through right now in India -- particularly in Maharashtra and Gujarat that we are facing.

CO: We've been reading the stories, seeing the TV coverage of people in Gujarat, in India in general, desperately trying to get into hospitals, trying to get oxygen, try to get treatment. Just on the outside, some of them dying on the street or in taxis or at home because they can't get to a hospital. But what you're seeing is what's inside the hospital. And what do you have? What are you able to do for people there?

DS: Yeah, this is a situation where even the basic requirement of basic necessity, which is to be given to the people of India, they are not able to get a simple bed in a hospital or simple availability of oxygen. And obviously, because this virus is now this time affecting specifically to the lungs and it's firing lungs like anything within the period of three or four days, the lungs are fired and these patients, they require litres and litres of oxygen. I would say we are really facing a very big dilemma wherein we have to say no to the patient, that we don't have a bed and we don't have oxygen to treat you.

CO: I've seen pictures, videos of people crawling into hospital doors, people begging for some oxygen -- they can't breathe, the oxygen levels have dropped so precipitously. And you're saying that you have to turn these people away. Can you describe how difficult that must be for the doctors and nurses?

DS: It's really a very very difficult situation. And I get a lot of calls in the middle of the night also, that 'Doctor, my relatives situation has gone down to 60 percent, 50 percent, please give me a bed.' And with a very heavy heart, I have to say no, unfortunately, I don't have a bed. And apart from bed, what is the worst thing is we don't have enough ventilators, we don't have enough BIPAPs which are required to support this fired lungs or ARDS lungs.

CO: What you're describing this fire in the lungs people are having, how quickly it infects them. Is this because there are these new mutations, these new variants -- I think they're calling it the double mutant that is spreading. Is that the case?

DS: Yeah exactly. It is a double mutant virus and it is a very very infectious strain, because if one person in the family gets infected, I would say by almost everybody in the house will get infected.

CO: Can you explain how it's possible that just over a month ago, the prime minister of India declared your crisis over, that life could go back to normal, that you had beat the virus, and now you're looking at just an absolute crisis throughout your country? How is that possible?

DS: I would say there is a lot of debate going on on this why this statement was given. And on the contrary, we should have learnt from the experience of Western countries, particularly European and American countries, who have been still facing this series of waves and waves of COVID. So it was very premature statement and to declare that we have won the battle against the coronavirus.

CO: But I'll just point out it was more than the statement, wasn't it? Because in the country things opened up, there was political rallies, big big events, large crowds together, great religious festivals in the Ganges that were all permitted. And so how much of this news spread is because of that very wide opening of all the commerce and all of the public events in your country?

DS: Yeah. And see that is what has happened when the leader speaks that we are okay and we have won the battle, then definitely the whole country will become complacent. And probably with a lot of elections coming up in many states of India, a lot of rallies were organised and probably they have been the source of super spreading this virus.

CO: What do you need at this point -- there are countries, Canada, the United States, everyone's moving to provide some support for India. What do you need most right now? What could you get from those countries immediately?

DS: One is we need the support in oxygens. Second is we need a good support from the pharma companies in helping us to get the drugs which are really effective against this virus. And very very important thing, which is the key point is the raw material for the production of the vaccines. And we all know that India is the powerhouse of the vaccine production. It produces almost 60 percent of the vaccines for the world. But unfortunately, we don't have the raw material for the production of this COVID vaccine. So if these countries can provide us the raw material for this, then yes, we can jack up, we can ramp up the production of vaccine. And ultimately this is going to end only if everybody is vaccinated. Already, 70 percent of the population of India is vaccinated

CO: For you personally, what's the most difficult thing you're facing right now?

DS: As a medical professional I would say we have been working in this pandemic situation for almost now a years' time. I would say a majority of the doctors and professionals are now slowly getting exhausted. And apart from this exhaustion, the emotions of letting the patient die in front of you and not able to give the treatment to that patient, these two things are really hurting us as a medical professional.

CO: Dr. Shah I wish you courage and strength. I think that you're all going to need it at this point, and I hope that the countries like Canada and others are able to help you. But thank you very much for speaking with us.

DS: Thank you.

CO: Good night.

DS: Thank you very much.

CH: Dhiren Shah is a cardiac and transplant surgeon at the Care Institute of Medical Sciences in Ahmedabad, India.

[Music: Synth Music]

Newborn COVID

CH: Shaneen Robinson-Desjarlais has felt very alone this week. The 41 year old Winnipeg woman gave birth to a baby boy this month, but days later returned to hospital with serious symptoms of COVID-19. She hasn't been able to care for her newborn, and the baby boy, along with the rest of her family members, have tested positive for the virus as well. This morning, CBC Winnipeg spoke to Shaneen Robinson-Desjarlais from her hospital bed.

SHANEEN ROBINSON DESJARLAIS: It's been like a really challenging year overall, just with a lot of health concerns. Over the past week, we found out that it's the variant. I'm not sure which variant I have. But it came from our middle son, our two year old from his day-care -- there was an outbreak. So that's how I contracted it. And now my newborn, my two week old son also has it because obviously I'm breastfeeding.

MARCY MARKUSA: I'm so sorry. How is he doing right now?

SHANEEN ROBINSON DESJARLAIS: We're having a hard time without each other. So he's with my husband at home and our two older sons.

MARCY MARKUSA: What do you understand about your health at this moment?

SHANEEN ROBINSON DESJARLAIS: Yesterday I woke up from a nap and I couldn't breathe. It was really a scary feeling. I've never felt anything like it before. It was like I was drowning in my lungs, like somebody was sitting on my chest. They did X-rays and they said, I have a lung infection and it's pneumonia.

MARCY MARKUSA: Now, we didn't obviously reach out just to cause you any pain or to even be talking to us from the hospital for any other reason than to try and understand why you want to share this with people in this moment in Manitoba.

SHANEEN ROBINSON DESJARLAIS: You know, we're really careful this whole time, my parents, like I said before, have autoimmune deficiencies and they are elders, you know, Indigenous elders, and we know that our people are struggling in a lot of our remote communities. And, you know, I'm not really very outspoken when it comes to telling people what to do. But it was my decision that I wanted to be extra careful with my family. You know, even though we were careful, this still happened just because of one person who was probably taking precautions as well, tested positive. And it was an outbreak in our day care centre. So it could happen to anybody. So this whole pregnancy -- I had to be extra careful. And then now that he's here, you know, it's just really sad and hard being a mother [Crying] and not being able to be with my newborn because of this virus and not be able to, you know, have that special time of breastfeeding and bonding together because of this virus. And I just really think that people need to take that seriously. And every person that's holding these rallies, speaking out against masks, speaking out against vaccination, and all this stuff -- each and every one of them has a child in their life or an elder in their life that they care about and they wouldn't want to see them suffer the way that our family is suffering. It's stressful not being able to have fun and let our kids be carefree, but it's just the sacrifices you have to make.

CH: That was Shaneen Robinson-Desjarlais speaking to host Marcy Markusa this morning on Information Radio in Winnipeg.

[Music: Synth Music]

Water

CH: In communities across Canada, our water gets cleaned and filtered before it's pumped into our homes. But for more than two months, that hasn't been the case for residents of Ivujivik. People living in Quebec's northernmost community haven't had clean drinking water since February. That's when the pipes at the local water treatment plant froze, forcing the municipality to pump untreated water from a lake into people's homes. Thomassie Mangiok is a resident of Ivujivik. He told the CBC today what his life's been like since then without clean water.

THOMASSIE MANGIOK: The first signs we were receiving water less regularly. We started receiving water every week. There were no real indications, announcements that there was a problem. And then when we started asking around what was wrong, we heard the water pan wasn't working anymore.

ALISON BRUNETTE: And so what do you see now when you turn on the taps?

THOMASSIE MANGIOK: Yellowish, a bit greenish water. When we go to the water tank, the house's water tank where the water is stored, we see fish alive or dead. I feel exhausted worrying for the children because I work at the school. Worrying for my kids at home. I have a pregnant wife,I'm worried about the baby. We take all the steps we need to ensure that everyone safe. Boiling the water, filtering it again. But we have to think about the exposure to the water because we wash our hands with the water, especially during the time of COVID-19. I'm afraid of a drop going into my mouth and then getting sick out of it.

ALISON BRUNETTE: What have you been told from the government so far? What have you been told about when this might be fixed or what alternatives are available to you?

THOMASSIE MANGIOK: Well, I saw through Nunatsiaq News, which covers our region, they were informed that the situation might be dealt with when the snow melts. So either next month or in two months. But I haven't heard directly from our muncipality. There's not much communication. We started avoiding washing ourselves because I'm worried about exposing my kids. But it's hard to do anything without water. So we just hope for the best and use the water to do dishes, sometimes wash ourselves. It's just very uncomfortable all the time.

CH: Thomassie Mangiok is the centre director for Nuvviti school and a resident of Ivujivik. He was speaking with guest host Alison Brunette on CBC's Quebec AM. Our colleagues in Quebec requested a comment from the Kativik Regional Government and from the municipality of Ivujivik, but have not received a response.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Now, that was the Calder case. You acted for Mr. Calder

THOMAS BERGER: Yes, I acted for the Nisga'a Tribal Council. And, of course, their president at that time was Frank Calder. And the breakthrough came when the Supreme Court handed down its judgement in 1973, written, by the way, by Mr. Justice Emmett Hall. And it was a dissenting judgement -- people forget that. But the prime minister decided that it made an awful lot of sense and that there should be a settlement reached with Aboriginal peoples -- wherever in Canada no treaties had been made. And that's why we've had this treaty making process going on now for 20 years. And it's finally reached us here in British Columbia where it all started.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: It has taken a long time, hasn't it? But you are glad to see this day finally come.

THOMAS BERGER: Yes I remember when Frank Calder came into my office with some of the Nisga'a leaders. Believe it or not, I think it was 1966 and that makes it 30 years ago. I was a young lawyer with a little office in a little building near the courthouse. And that was another generation of Nisga'a leaders who came to see me then. And we started a lawsuit claiming that Aboriginal title had never been extinguished in 1973. We had a victory and it certainly was a moral victory. It changed the landscape so far as the willingness of the federal government to negotiate is concerned. So I think it's an historic day in BC and I think this thing will hang together.

CH: That was the BC lawyer, judge, and politician, Thomas Berger, speaking to As It Happens host, Michael Enright, in 1996. Mr. Berger has died at the age of 88.

[Music: Violin Music]

Part 3: Penn Museum apologizes for collecting bones of victims of slavery and police violence

Lebanese Food Prices

Guest: Soha Zaiter

CH: For a while now, families across Lebanon have been struggling to make ends meet. But now during Ramadan, many are unable to afford even a basic meal to break their daily fast. The country was already in the midst of an economic crisis before last summer's explosion in Beirut. Then the government was thrown into chaos and now the cost of some food items has skyrocketed by 300 percent over the last year. Soha Zaiter is the executive director at the Lebanese Food Bank. We reached her in Beirut.

CO: Soha it is the end of the day in Beirut, what was it like at the food bank today?

SOHA ZAITER: Every single day during the month of Ramadan, we are distributing food boxes. We are distributing hot meals for iftar, and we are helping more kitchens with food to cook and distribute also to needy families all over Lebanon.

CO: How much more difficult is it for people this year to be able to feed their families? To have something to eat at iftar?

SZ: This year is exceptional because we are receiving a lot of phone calls, WhatsApp messages, emails, also asking for help because a lot of people lost their jobs. One lady is not able to prepare the main salad that is served in Ramadan -- fattoush -- because it's very expensive. We heard a story about a father telling us usually when his kids are hungry, the easiest thing and the cheapest thing was to do is french fries because it's potato and oil and that's it. Unfortunately, today, the oil is very expensive. The potatoes are very expensive. So even the simplest food is not available anymore for everyone.

CO: But it's odd, isn't it? Because these are foods that are actually grown in Lebanon. I mean, the salad, the ingredients for fattoush or for potatoes or oil -- these are produced in your country. So why are all the staples, all the things that should be the easiest and the healthiest for people to eat, why are they not available anymore?

SZ: Unfortunately, even farmers were affected by this situation. They buy the seeds in fresh dollars and the people helping them to remove their products from their fields also, also, they are getting paid now higher salaries. So in a way or another, they are affected. In this way. Their products are higher. They are exporting fruits and vegetables outside Lebanon. They are getting paid in dollars. When they want to sell their products here in the Lebanese market, they need to be equal for the exported items. So it's a complicated chain. But unfortunately, we are affected by it, by this situation and directly and indirectly.

CO: I also understand that the price of petrol is going up and that must make it difficult for those farmers even to get the produce into the cities.

SZ: 100 percent. Yes.

CO: What are you able to do? How much food can you get into Beirut's food bank in order to help these people?

SZ: We created the projects, especially for this month, so we can fulfil the demand of these people. The first one, we distributed 5000 food boxes all over Lebanon, of course, in collaboration with NGOs, because they are spread all over Lebanon and they have their own data so they can share it with us and distribute to the most needy families all over Lebanon. Two, we distributed 1000 chicken vouchers for families in order to buy their needs of chicken from suppliers that we are collaborating with. And this way, the lady, the housewife, will go and pick whatever she wants -- this is an opportunity for her to to get what she wants. We didn't impose anything on her. And number three, we funded six kitchens here in Beirut, community kitchens. They are cooking every day 300 meals to be distributed to families. Each kitchen is in a different area -- Sidon and Tripoli and Akkar and Beqaa and Beirut. So we chose different areas so the impact would be wider. The seventh kitchen we collaborated with is preparing 600 meals for the prisoners in Roumieh because before Ramadan there was a problem that they are facing because of the economic situations they cannot afford to prepare meals during Ramadan. And their parents are not able to give them money. Even in prison, they are not getting a healthy meal. So this is why we interfered and we said that we will support you during the holy month of Ramadan. And hopefully this action or this initiative will continue after Ramadan.

CO: You mentioned iftar -- and for people who don't know, that's the meal at the end of the day of fasting during Ramadan. But I also know that there are certain days where there is a feast, there's a larger meal, a larger celebration to share with people. Are people able to have those kinds of special occasions or is that just too expensive?

SZ: It's very expensive. Unfortunately, none of the traditional things that we used to do every single year are being done in Lebanon. I used to see restaurants during Ramadan full, people are enjoying walking in the streets, eating, gathering all together. Unfortunately, this year the city is silent. It's very quiet. It's very sad. It's very heartbreaking what we are seeing this year.

CO: Soha it really does sound very sad kind of a Ramadan this year. But I'm glad you're able to help some people with your food bank. Thank you.

SZ: You're most welcome. We're trying to help as much as we can. And everything we are doing is funded and supported by donors that are not leaving us alone. They are supporting us from Lebanon and outside Lebanon -- Lebanese and non-Lebanese. People are feeling that they are and it's their responsibility to help other Lebanese living here. So we thank them every minute to be next to us and standing by us.

CO: Soha I'm glad you're getting some support from people who I know are donating to you and helping you with that. And I'm glad you're there for others. Thank you.

SZ: Yeah. Thank you so much.

CH: Soha Zaiter is the executive director of the Lebanese Food Bank. She's in Beirut.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Stephen Dunn

CH: Newfoundland director Stephen Dunn is reviving the TV series that shaped the direction of his career and his life. That show is Queer As Folk, a British TV series that premiered in 1999. It followed the lives of three gay men in Manchester's gay village. At the time, Mr. Dunn watched it in secret and alone with the volume at a murmur, worried that someone might catch him. Now, after a meeting with the original show creator, Mr. Dunn is leading a reboot of the series that meant so much to him growing up. Here is Stephen Dunn talking to the CBC.

STEPHEN DUNN: For me personally, it kind of revolutionised the way I saw myself. Like I had never seen as a queer kid growing up in St. John's, I didn't actually know anyone who was also queer. And when I saw this show, I finally saw my community reflected in a way that empowered me to be able to be comfortable exploring my sexuality, finding myself, and ultimately was one of the things that led me to become a filmmaker. The kind of representation that shows like this, the power that that representation has can change lives. And I know that personally, because three years ago, I have an uncle who's disabled, who has cp, and he came out actually at 60 years old. And ever since he came out, I've gotten really involved in his life and we've gotten close in a way that I never knew that we really would. But about two years ago, I told him what was going on. I told him that I got the rights to Queer As Folk. And he just looked shocked for a minute. And he whispered and he said, I used to watch that in my basement with the volume down low. And my hope is that people can now, queer people, can now watch Queer As Folk surrounded by their friends and family with the volume all the way to the max, instead of having to feel like this is something that no one else can know about them. And for me, I know, Paddy, my uncle -- when he told me he watched that show, it really had a huge impact on me and also my vision for the series, because now I know that Paddy has never seen himself reflected on television or in movies before ever. And so one of the inspirations behind my reimagining for the show is to -- I'm partially making it a little bit for him to.

CH: That was filmmaker Stephen Dunn talking to the CBC's Jeremy Eaton. His reboot of the British TV series Queer As Folk has been picked up by the NBC streaming service Peacock.

[Music: Piano Music]

Penn Remains Repatriated

Guest: Christopher Woods

CH: The University of Pennsylvania's Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology has some explaining to do. Earlier this month, the museum announced a plan to repatriate or rebury human remains housed within its Samual G. Morton collection. The bones of women and men, many of them Black, were gathered throughout the late 1830s and 1840s by a researcher who sought to justify White supremacy. Then this week, the museum issued an apology to do with a separate set of human remains. Bones recovered from the site of the 1985 police bombing that killed six members of the Black separatist organisation MOVE, and five children in Philadelphia. Christopher Woods is the director of the Penn Museum. We reached him in Chicago.

CO: Mr. Woods, I want to begin with the remains recovered from the site of the 1985 MOVE Bombing. How did those end up at your museum?

CHRISTOPHER WOODS: So in 1985, the Philadelphia medical examiner's office asked a Penn professor and the museum's curator in chief at the time to help establish the identity of remains that were recovered from that site.

CO: It's believed there is six members of this Black separatist organisation called MOVE, and five children who were killed in that blast. I just want to just play a bit of a MOVE member Mike Afrika Jr. -- John Africa was the founder of that movement. And this is what he had to say this week in response to the museum's apology for housing those bones. And let's have a listen.

MIKE AFRICA JR: [SOUNDCLIP: I don't know what to make of it. I mean, 36 years later. I mean, you know, for the last year we've been saying this thing about apology without action is meaningless. And I think this is exactly -- that statement speaks to this exactly. Our apology -- I don't even know how to think about or accept something like that coming from an atrocity like this. This is not something that they didn't know. It wasn't an oversight. They're talking about this. They're teaching this. They're holding it and passing it around like it's a hot potato, right. It's is disturbing. It's egregious.]

CO: All right. That's Mike Africa Jr.. What was the nature of the apology you made to the people in that group?

CW: Well, I mean, he's absolutely right. We haD these remains for far far too long. And they should have been returned to the Africa family a long time ago. And certainly it was a very serious lapse in judgement, terrible judgement, that they were ever used in any sort of course. And I extend to him I've spoken to members of the Africa family personally, and I extend to them my most sincere apology for that.

CO: In those 36 years that he mentions -- I mean, initially the idea was to identify the remains that were in that house. But how were the remains being used since then? What kind of courses were using them in order to study?

CW: Well, Dr. Mann who had possession of these remains left the University of Pennsylvania in 2001 became a faculty member at Princeton. And the remains -- they were entrusted to him personally to do this study. The remains were then used in a class that in recent years at Princeton University, but taught by a staff member of the museum. And that should never have happened. And that was a terrible lapse in judgement.

CO: But how is it only now that it's regarded as having been a terrible lapse in judgement if 36 years these bones have been treated this way -- why only now?

CW: Well, partly is that there were not any requests from the medical examiners to retrieve this material. There had been some outreach to the Africa family over the years. And all of this came up now in light of recent discussions of repatriation and reburial. And so I personally started my position at the museum on April 1st. I learnt about the existence of this material for the first time on April 12th. And for me personally, this is a narrative that's unfolded over the last two weeks.

CO: And it has come to be a story in the midst of this other issue that your museum is dealing with, which is the remains that were also studied for a very long time, part of the Samuel G. Morton cranial collection. What can you tell us about the origins of those bones?

CW: So the Morton collection consists of over 1,300 crania which were collected by Samuel Morton and others in the mid-19th century, and they were used by Morton in support of theories of White racial superiority in the late 19th century.

CO: And it's worth noting that his work, looking at these crania under the light of White supremacy, even at the time it was considered to be racist, that this was junk science even then, right?

CW: Darwin, I know, for instance, was a critic of Morton's. But these cranial collections in the mid-19th century were actually quite common. This is one of the largest ones. But certainly science has changed its opinion on these issues a long time ago. In fact, some of the research that has been done on the Morton collection has undermined the very sort of racist theories that saw its assemblage in the first place.

CO: Some of the bones, some of the remains that is part of that Samuel G. Morton collection were people who had been enslaved. Is that right?

CW: That is right. The exact number is uncertain, but that is very likely the case.

CO: People are asking for all of this remains to be repatriated, returned to where they come from, returned to families to communities. Is that possible?

CW: That is possible. And that's our goal, is to listen to local communities and to repatriate whenever possible. This is what we want to do and we're taking steps and making investments in order to do this.

CO: But there are those who are saying that not just the remains need to be repatriated, but that the data collected, all the science that was brought out, the analysis of these remains that should be removed as well. What do you think of that?

CW: Well, I think we have to have a comprehensive review of all of our stewardship procedures involving human remains -- some of this data is out, it's hard to the genie back in the bottle. But we need to have a comprehensive review of all research and teaching and collecting and stewarding of human remains. And where we're about to undertake that.

CO: We will leave it there. Mr. Woods, thank you.

CW: Thank you very much.

CH: Christopher Woods is the director of the Penn Museum. We reached him in Chicago. For more on the story. Visit our website: cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Guitar Music]

Ideas Promo: Charlie Foran

CH: Lately, liberal democracy has been taking it on the chin -- it's been attacked, rejected and critiqued even by true believers who think it's no longer liberal or democratic. But on Ideas tonight, novelist and essayist Charlie Foran pushes back and defends it as the best political system ever devised, even though its history is full of extremely dark chapters.

CHARLIE FORAN: History is dark because humans are dark. Every effort we make at betterment is going to be forever complicated by our complicated natures. I don't idealise any attempt at governance. I am deeply admiring of many of the qualities of liberal democracy, but I fully acknowledge that it is in process and it has many blemishes, historic and contemporary. It is, however, the only system I've ever encountered or read about or thought about, and I am a big fan of history and I'm rooting my thinking about the present and the past all the time, I don't think there's any other measure. It is the only system that speaks to human nature, doesn't try and pretend it's not what it is or that it could be better or we should be better or there's a new and better kind of human being around the corner. Instead, it speaks to who we are and attempts to govern accordingly.

CH: Liberal democracy and how to preserve it on Ideas tonight right after As It Happens.

[Music: Piano Music]

Juan Joya Borja: Spanish Laughing Guy

CH: He went by many names, Juan Joya Borja -- his real name, El Risitas -- meaning the giggles, and per the Internet -- the Spanish laughing guy. And even if you don't speak Spanish, I can guarantee that Mr. Borja's infectious laugh will give you a case of El Risitas.

[SOUND: JUAN JOYA BORJA LAUGHING]

CH: That was a clip of Spanish comedian Juan Joya Borja. Mr. Borja died on Wednesday. According to Spanish media reports, he was 66. In that now famous video from 2007, the comedian is telling a story about the time he left paella dishes in the sea as a young kitchen worker. In the morning, instead of finding them clean, they'd been swept out to sea. It's a story years later, Mr. Borja obviously still found very amusing. And years after he first told that story, that video has taken on a life of its own. It's been uploaded with completely unrelated subtitles in dozens of languages, making it seem as though Mr. Borja cackling while having a conversation about, for example, the latest Apple laptop, Flat Earthers or Brexit.

April 29, 2021 Episode Transcript

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