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The AIH Transcript for April 15, 2019

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

JEFF DOUGLAS: Good evening, I'm Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

JD: Tonight:

CO: Sacred heart-break. France is in a state of shock, as a raging fire destroys much of the 850-year-old Notre Dame Cathedral — and consumes its iconic spire.

JD: A church, and a city, gutted. A witness describes the horrifying present-day scene — and a historian describes the long, rich past of a building that's come to symbolize Paris.

CO: Holding out hope. The Red Cross breaks its silence about the ISIS kidnapping of a medical team in 2013 — because there's reason to believe that a nurse may still be alive.

JD: The shots still echo. A month after the massacre in Christchurch, a young girl awakens from her coma — but has lost her sight, and still can't recognize her parents.

CO: Body and soul. A Saskatoon woman is overjoyed to have fulfilled her husband's dying wish, which was to preserve his tattoos — and to finally have the results in her possession.

JD: And...giving edit where edit is due. After she's named in the college admissions scandal, Hallmark decides to snip Lori Loughlin out of the TV series "When Calls the Heart" — leaving a period show with a major ellipsis.

JD: "As It Happens", the Monday edition. Radio that's not sure she was cut out for an alleged life of crime — but, then again, guesses she was.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: Notre Dame fire: witness, kidnapped nurse, Saskatchewan tattoo

Notre Dame fire: witness

Guest: Denis Lieppe

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound the sounds of several Parisians singing hymns]

JD: As Notre Dame burns, Parisians pray. Those were the voices of hundreds of onlookers — singing hymns and kneeling before the city's iconic cathedral, as it is engulfed in flames. The fire consumed the central spire of the cathedral, built in the 19th century. The roof collapsed soon after. And there are multiple reports that three of the Rose stained-glass windows — which date back to the 13th century — have also been destroyed. For hours, residents and tourists stood in horror, watching one of the greatest icons in France's history burn. Denis Lieppe was among them. He lives blocks away from the Notre Dame Cathedral. He spoke to us from his balcony in Paris.

CO: Denis, what can you see from your balcony — from your window — of the cathedral at this point?

DENIS LIEPPE: I can see a very strong smoke. I can see the Notre Dame la fleche.

CO: La fleche the spiral — it's the great cathedral spire that’s collapsed?

DL: Yes, it’s collapsed.

CO: Oh my gosh! When you saw the spire had had it collapsed, what went through your mind? What were you feeling at that moment?

DL: Terrible. I would like to cry because it's part of our history. It's a very difficult. It had never been a fire here from eight centuries. This is very hard to see that. There’s no words, no words.

CO: And the Cathedral of Notre Dame is 850 years old?

DL: Yes. Notre Dame has resisted to all the wars — World War 1, World War 2, the fighting, the bombing of Paris. But during a renovation, a construction, the roof has disappeared.

CO: Denis, at what point today… when did you realize that this fire was burning in Notre Dame Cathedral?

DL: On the end of the afternoon, I was teaching at the Sorbonne to my students. And when they came back home, I I've seen the smoke. And I came to see what happens. And it was terrible because I've seen a little fire, and then a big one, a big, big one. Finally, la fleche collapsed.

CO: Oh my! How quickly did the fire spread?

DL: I went there in one hour. I've been there before the firemen come.

CO: Before you went home to watch, how close did you get to the fire?

DL: 50 metres. I was in the bank of the river of the scene.

CO: Just by the river. And were there lots of people there?

DL: Oh yes, a lot of the tourists, a lot of inhabitants.

CO: And what were people saying? How were they reacting to this fire.

DL: It was incredible and, very, very sad — all of them.

CO: And did you think when you saw the fire at the beginning that they would be able to put it out? That this was not going to be such a big one?

DL: Yes, of course. I couldn't imagine that. It was unimaginable.

CO: You couldn't imagine that it would get out of control like this?

DL: Oh yes, yes. So sorry, I'm shocked. It's incredible. President Obama was there in the tower to see Paris.

CO: Have you lived in Paris all your life?

DL: No, no, but I'm 50 years old, and I'm living in Paris for more than 30 years right now.

CO: What does that cathedral mean for you?

DL: A lot of things — history, all the sufferings of friends, marriage of the kings, and so many things.

CO: Does it have a personal connection for you?

DL: Oh yes, I can see from my apartment. This is a part of my life, which is burning right now.

CO: A part of your life is burning right now.

DL: I can’t imagine. I tell you what happens right now, but I can’t. realize really.

CO: Can you describe what's going on right now? What you can see?

DL: I can see firemen, policemen. But this is more quiet right now. I think a fireman who is fighting the fire was behind Notre Dame.

CO: Are there still fire trucks arriving?

DL: Yes, yes, a lot of firemen. It's incredible. The general of the firemen of Paris is here, President Macron and the prime minister too, and the Archbishop of Paris too. It's incredible. I can see my neighbour. She's on the phone too.

CO: Seems like every everybody empowers everybody. This is this is something that they're all focused on. That means so much to everybody, doesn't it?

DL: Yes.

CO: Denis, do you have any idea how much of the church has been destroyed at this point?

DL: I don't know, but I think the fire is getting down right now. I don't know… 30 per cent.

CO: Denis, I'm going to let you go. I think you're going to have a long night of watching and sharing this moment of grief with all your Parisian friends there. But I appreciate so much that you would speak with us tonight. Thank you.

DL: OK. I'm sorry for my bad English.

CO: Not at all. I appreciate it so much. Take care.

DL: OK.

CO: Bye-bye.

DL: Thank you. Bye.

JD: Denis Lieppe is a resident in Paris. He lives blocks away from the Notre Dame Cathedral. We reached him at his home. In about 30 minutes, we'll speak to a medieval historian who tells us about the irreplaceable elements that could now be lost forever in the fire at Notre Dame.

[Music: Horns]

Kidnapped nurse

Guest: Rukmini Callimachi

JD: It's been five years since the Rukmini Callimachi learned that ISIS had abducted a Red Cross nurse and two of her colleagues in Syria. Ms. Callimachi has spent years reporting on everything about ISIS for the New York Times. But she didn't tell the story of the abduction of Louisa Akavi — that nurse from New Zealand — until now. That's because yesterday, the Red Cross went public with an appeal for any information that might help them find Ms. Akavi. We reached Rukmini Callimachi in New York.

CO: Rukmini, why has the Red Cross decided to finally come forward with Louisa Akavi's story now.

RUKMINI CALLIMACHI: So after five and a half years of silence on her case, the Red Cross is saying that they're now making her situation public because the last little bit of territory under ISIS rule in Syria has fallen. The Red Cross confirmed that she was in that pocket as recently as December. And with the fact that she hasn't been found yet, and the fact that the pocket has fallen, they're worried that she has now lost. And that the public might actually play a role now in helping to find her.

CO: They have reason to believe — good reason — that she is alive?

RC: Look, we meaning Adam Goldman and myself, we've been hearing for about two years now that there is evidence that she is alive. This was from American and European intelligence officials, as well as from the New Zealand Government going back to I believe 2016 and 2017. What the Red Cross has now is multiple sightings of her, according to people who have escaped from the territory that were under ISIS control, and that gave interviews to the Red Cross, indicating that she was in this town or in that town. And that she was spotted in hospitals under ISIS control, providing nursing and medical help.

CO: Can you tell us… take us back to what happened to her five years ago when she was kidnapped?

RC: She was kidnapped in October of 2013. She was part of a Red Cross convoy — seven people — that were returning from the Syrian city of Idlib to Damascus. They were stopped at a checkpoint by unidentified gunmen, who took the entire group. And about 24 hours later, four of the seven were released. Louisa and two Red Cross drivers were capped. And she was at that point transferred to an unknown facility, and eventually in early 2014, myself and Adam Goldman we were able to confirm that she was being held at an oil installation near Raqqa in a prison that was under ISIS control, alongside at least 23 Western hostages who had also been kidnapped.

CO: The Red Cross had good reason to fear for her because a lot of those people who were captives of ISIS met a horrible faith. Can you tell us some of the people she was being held with?

RC: She was in a cell with American aid worker Kayla Mueller, who ended up dying allegedly in a coalition airstrike according to ISIS. And the two of them basically shared a wall and were in the adjoining cell where the male hostages that included James Foley, the American freelance journalist; John Cantlie, a British photojournalist; and numerous others who are being held by the group.

CO: There was an attempt by U.S. forces to free her at one point, was there not?

RC: There was an attempt by U.S. forces to free all of the hostages, including James Foley. This was in July 4th of 2014. It failed. They arrived allegedly hours or perhaps days before the hostages were moved. So that raid failed. And the families of the hostages have told me that they believe that accelerated the horrific decision that ISIS made to behead the men, to rape Kayla Mueller, et cetera.

CO: There was one report that came from two Yazidi women who were kept along with Kayla Mueller as sex slaves by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. What did they tell you about how Louisa was doing?

RC: I interviewed these two girls, and they are girls, they were teenagers right after they escaped from ISIS captivity. And they described how in the fall of 2014, they were taken to this jail cell in Raqqa. And in the jail, they found both Louisa and Kayla Mueller. Louisa they said was very ill. She was lying down the whole time. She had something wrong with one of her hands. And they described her as so ill that she could not set up. At a certain point, the two girls and Kayla were taken out of that particular cell and moved into a villa where they began to be sexually abused by Baghdadi. And Louisa was left behind. They believe she was left behind because of her ill health, and because she was older. Louisa Akavi is now 62 years old.

CO: And yet, the last sightings of her seem to be that she was back at work being a nurse as best she could in that zone. What did you learn about that?

RC: According to the Red Cross, and also according to current and former American officials that we have spoken to, at a certain point, she was allowed to resume her profession as a nurse inside ISIS-run clinics and hospitals. This is incredible news. It meant that ISIS has found a use for her inside their territorial Caliphate, which the Red Cross hoped would ensure her survival. What we also know now however is that she was not free. She was able to move around inside the clinics and the hospitals where she was at. But there is indication that she was still under enormous pressure from the group. She was not a citizen of the Caliphate. She was not able to move around of her own accord.

CO: You and your colleague Adam Goldman have known about this story for years now and didn't report it. That was your decision with the Red Cross. And now we're learning of it. Why did the Red Cross feel it was necessary to keep this under wraps so tightly?

RC: Adam and I have known about this case for quite literally five years, and it's been difficult at times. We've had numerous discussions with the Red Cross. There were times when we disagreed with them, where we thought that basically the blackout had been maintained for long enough. But, in the end, we respected their wishes because, of course, as journalists, we don't ever want to harm somebody with our reporting. The Red Cross is changing its position now. They're wondering if at this point a public appeal might essentially shake the tree and help bring about some answers.

CO: But they have an idea that she might be in this one camp as you were describing this called Hole Camp in Syria?

RC: This is how a hypothesis. This camp has over 70,000 people. All of them have flooded out of the last little tiny villages that were under ISIS control. The vast majority of them are ISIS wives, ISIS children, and ISIS followers. And what they fear is that Louisa is still under pressure from the terrorist group. That she is being threatened by them. That she is not free to move around as she might wish. And just in March, the president of the International Committee of the Red Cross travelled all the way to Syria to this particular camp with one specific mission. And that was to erect the Red Cross flag in the middle of the camp in a way that it would be clearly visible, and act as a beacon for her if she should be there.

CO: And you know if she saw and responded to that beacon?

RC: Well, not up until this point, or we might have some good news.

CO: And any concerns that the fact that you are now reporting it might put her in any kind of danger?

RC: There's always that concern, but I think that her employer, the Red Cross, which has been leading the search for her, has been incredibly sober throughout this process. And it took a lot of thought and a lot of hand-wringing on their part to make this decision.

CO: Rukmini, we’ll leave it there, and we will await good news.

RC: I sure hope we get good news about Louisa Akavi.

CO: Thank you.

RC: Thank you very much, Carol.

JD: Rukmini Callimahi reports on ISIS for the New York Times. We reached her in New York City. You'll find more on Louisa Akavi's story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: instrumental]

Saskatchewan tattoos

Guest: Cheryl Wenzel

JD: When Cheryl Wenzel's husband Chris died last October, he left her with an out-of-the-ordinary request. He wanted her to preserve and display the tattoos that covered his body — including the skin they were on. We spoke to Ms. Wenzel last November when she first set out to fulfill Chris's last wish. Now, after a long preservation process, Chris’s tattoos have come home. We reached Cheryl Wenzel in Saskatoon.

CO: Cheryl, can you describe for us that moment when you opened this box that contained your husband's preserved tattoos?

CHERYL WENZEL: Before we opened them, it was very scary. And after the sweat lodge ceremony, my husband's body in preservation elicited that that tension, that sacredness, and that fear that I had. And I felt my husband that day. We all did. It was like he was able to come in and sit with us and give us strength.

CO: What was it that you feared? What was your concern about opening the box?

CW: Mainly my children, and how they would feel with seeing their dad. But the preservation… we’re humans, and that's what we do. We have a tendency of taking grief in different ways. But there was more strength in it an empowering them than I could imagine.

CO: You have five children, right?

CW: I do.

CO: So what was the reaction? Because I know you were careful not to even see any photos before. You wanted the whole experience to be fresh for you. How did you all react when you open the box and you saw the tattooed skin?

CW: I was like wow, dad’s home. And it was like this is my dad. This is my husband. And he's with us. As artists, humans and people, they need to have something that they can visually see to have closure.

CO: Can you describe what the skin looks like?

CW: It looks like literally like a painting on hide. Like on a beautiful hide that was once somebody you loved dearly, and made a huge difference in your world. And honouring to see.

CO: there are different parts. Can you describe the parts?

CW: He had some patches on his shin. This came from his from his kneecap right down to ankles. And then his arm from the top of his hand to his neck, and his neck tattoo and his whole back. And to see the huge wingspan, it’s almost like he can come in and give you a big hug. And he looks so amazing. It just looks so clear and crisp. And they're able to see the tattoo I did that because by accident because that was my first tattoo I’d ever done, and I accidentally put DW instead of CW.

CO: What's your favorite tattoo that's on the skins?

CW: I have to say that DW [both laugh].

CO: Is your feeling that your husband — his spirit — is in these skins and in what you've received?

CW: I feel like his spirit is stronger. It's given him strength, and the creator has given us the ability to have a different level of communication. He was a very powerful person when he was alive. He would spend so much time with the family like he would stop tattooing in the middle of a tattoo because I’d call and say hey man, I need some help with these boys. And he would stop, and he would be there with me. One thing that I always told him you're the father of my children, and I would never be with anybody else.

CO: You first got together when you were 15?

CW: We were we were together. We were together when I was 15, just turning 16. And we got our first child and I was turning 18.

CO: We first spoke to you just after you had made the decision, and that was a long process of having this this procedure done in order to have this skin. You had a lot of concerns about how people would react, and just what would be the fallout from it. Has this moment kind of relieved all of that for you?

CW: It has. That's what I asked that the creator and that spirit to give us a good journey, and allow people to be open-minded.

CO: And where will you display the skins?

CW: Well, I plan to take them to Vancouver for the tattoo convention. And then we had planned a family trip for this year to drive across Canada. We wanted to drive from Vancouver all the way out to Saint John’s, New Foundland. And now we can go on a family trip with my husband and his tattoos, and share this moment with many people.

CO: Well Cheryl, I hope it's a great trip with your family. That sounds quite extraordinary. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

CW: Thank you so much for taking the time and speaking with us as well.

CO: Take care. Bye-bye.

CW: Miigwech

JD: Cheryl Wenzel is a tattoo artist. We reached her in Saskatoon.

[Music: Smooth jazz]

David Cameron autobiography

JD: Here's former British Prime Minister David Cameron, speaking to reporters in January.

SOUNDCLIP

DAVID CAMERON: I don’t regret calling a referendum. It was a promise I made two years before the 2015 general election. It was included in a manifesto. It was legislated for in parliament. I think six out of seven Members of Parliament of all parties voted for that referendum. Obviously, I regret that we lost that referendum. I deeply regret that. I was leading the campaign to stay in the European Union. And obviously, I regret the difficulties and the problems that we've been having.

JD: It is somewhat hard to believe that Mr. Cameron doesn't regret calling the Brexit referendum. Not because it has split his entire country, or because it turned Parliament into an absurd purgatory. No, there's a much more personal reason why one may suspect the former PM lies in his shed, staring up at the ceiling and whispering, "Why?" And the reason is: his memoirs. Now, I mention the shed, because it's where he said he would be writing them. He bought it for the equivalent of 43,000 Canadian dollars. It's just your average luxury memoir-writing shed: wood-burning stove, sheep's-wool insulation, and pull-out couch. And given that he was paid 1-point-4 million Canadian for the book, it’s a reasonable purchase. That book was due out last year. Then it was rescheduled for this coming fall. The reason for the delay was Brexit. According to the Daily Mail, he gave private assurances to Ms. May that his book would not arrive in stores until the UK had departed the EU, which was supposed to happen two weeks ago. Then he would spend the first three weeks of this month promoting it, presumably from behind some kind of egg-proof window or something. But that was before the extension. Now, Mr. Cameron said, quote, "I honestly don't know when it's coming out." Unquote. He meant the book, incidentally, not his country. Although I guess they're the same thing, at this point.

[Music: Ambient]

Part two: Notre Dame: historian, Christchurch child coma

Notre Dame: historian

Guest: Isabelle Cochelin

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: Church bells ring out]

JD: Churches across Paris are ringing their bells for Notre Dame tonight, as one of the city's most important landmarks goes up in flames. An aerial shot showed a fire that raged in nearly every wing of the cathedral. Hundreds of firefighters continued to work into the evening, to salvage any part of the cathedral they possibly could. Art historians and medieval experts are only beginning to come to terms with what has been lost. Along with the destruction of the 19th-century spire and the roof, there are now multiple reports that three of the four beloved stained glass Rose Windows, dating back from the 13th century, have also been destroyed. Isabelle Cochelin is the acting director of the Centre for Medieval Studies at the University of Toronto. We reached her in Toronto.

CO: Isabelle, what is most in your thoughts as you see the cathedral on fire?

ISABELLE COCHELIN: Well, I was hoping it would be just a relatively superficial… at least something that would be easy to repair. But I just heard from my husband, who is also a medievalist, and teaches in the Netherlands that they really cannot stop the fire, and that it looks like the cathedral will be damaged in a much more fundamental way than we thought. And that it might be really almost completely destroyed. And this is really depressing. We’ve seen that the roof is gone, which was made of wood. So that was I guess understandable that would catch fire. But to see the rest of it in flames, you've spent a lot of time inside that cathedral. What parts of it are you thinking about the most as you see this burn out of control?

IC: So for me, it's vision of the of the church itself, walking around it. Every time I was passing by, I was born in Paris, and I was there last year for my sabbatical. Every time I pass by, it makes me incredibly joyous to see this beauty because it's a medieval work of art. And it's really at the heart of the city. And it attracts much more visitors than anything in Paris. It's really a superb work of art that shows how the medieval people were able to construct masterpieces that would last for hundreds and hundreds of years, much better than anything we can construct today.

CO: And we saw the first thing that went was the spire, which just collapsed. And what do you know about that? What can you tell us about that structure?

IC: The spire was constructed first in the 1220s, and this one was also fragile and was destroyed. And it was rebuilt again by a very famous specialist of restoration of medieval buildings throughout France. So it was mostly a middle of the 19th century structure. But it was still superb because it's very seen and was going up in the sky with twelve apostles. So yes, it's really sad that it was destroyed.

CO: Of course, for many people, the most beautiful part of the cathedral is from the outside and inside is those the Rose Windows, right? The four Rose Windows, which appeared to be destroyed.

IC: Oh my God. Yeah. No, they're absolutely magnificent! And these you cannot reconstruct. The south side and the north side, this is a terrible loss. I hope that they won't be destroyed, but it looks like yes.

CO: What's the story of them? What went into the designing and the making of those stained glass windows?

IC: They were made to attract more light inside the building because it was perceived as too dark. And they’re masterpieces of the middle of the 13th century. They're full of light and representation of the faith of the people in the middle ages. That was usually most of the time a work of beauty.

CO: You mentioned that, of course, it's just a masterpiece of medieval architecture. The flying buttresses, the gargoyles, all the details which are just extraordinary in that church — both inside and out. It's just magnificent. But what about the art inside? What works of art do you think we may have lost?

IC: I heard the priest from the cathedral said that they were able to save the Treasury. And so I hope that everything inside was saved, except for the building itself that will be destroyed.

CO: For many people, it's the bells — those bells that have been rung for the ends of the wars, the Great War, the Second World War, that they rang after 9/11 that for the deaths and births and everything that those bells have gone. And do is your sense because the tower seem to be threatened at the bell tower might be threatened as well?

IC: Yes, that would be, especially because they were paying for redoing some of them recently if I'm not mistaken. So yes, that would be extremely sad also. But it's truly the whole building that is in itself a magnificent hymn to the past and to the faith of those people in the past. And I hope because the bells can be reconstructed, but the architecture itself might become just a mere copy of what existed before.

CO: And for you personally, when you're thinking about that church, when you're talking to your husband who obviously loves it as much as you, what are you talking about? What is this thing that you can't believe you're going to lose?

IC: Oh, for me, it's this old lady at the heart of Paris that preserved the magnificent period of the middle ages. Also, the suffering that existed. But, first and foremost, the beauty of that period. And every time I walk beside it, I'm just I'm just proud — proud of what people in the past were able to do. And that we were so proud of today our great progresses and what we can do, but we cannot build magnificent buildings like that. And they expressed what was for them very important their love of God. And it's all the various levels of population in Paris. You know from simple workers up to the King of France Louis the ninth, and his mother, and his wife, and everybody was part of this building. And it shows in it that so many artisans, fields workers, where giving their hearts when they were doing that. It's really a proof for the strength of the communities of the past that existed before.

CO: Isabelle, I appreciate speaking with you. And I'm sorry this is happening.

IC: Yeah. Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

IC: Bye-bye

JD: Isabelle Cochelin is the acting director of the Centre for Medieval Studies at the University of Toronto. We reached her in Toronto.

[Music: Guitar]

Christchurch child coma

Guest: Wasseim Alsati

JD: It has been one month since a shooter killed 50 people at two mosques in the New Zealand city of Christchurch. And for survivors, the road to recovery had been a long one. Wasseim Alsati was walking towards the Al Noor mosque with his young daughter, Alen, when they were both shot by the gunman as he was on his way out. Both needed multiple surgeries for their wounds, both are still recovering in separate hospitals. Alen recently woke from her coma. But she still has brain injuries. We reached Wasseim Alsati in Auckland, New Zealand.

CO: Wasseim, how is Alen doing? How is your daughter doing?

WASSEIM ALSATI: In my opinion, she's doing very good. She will get better. I do believe in God, and I do believe in miracles.

CO: She's turned five years old since the shooting, is that right?

WA: Yes. She turned five years old last week, on the fourth of April. She was in coma, and we did do a little birthday wish for her because loved birthdays. She always tried to have two or three birthdays in the year for her. She's just such a great kid.

CO: I've seen the pictures of her. She's so beautiful.

WA: Yes, she is. Yes.

CO: What are the doctors saying about her condition?

WA: They’re refusing to give us a full report because they don't know what's the damages yet. And there is improving every day for Alen.

CO: At this point, she doesn't seem to have sight, is that right? Is she conscious? Is she responding?

WA: The good news is she responded yesterday morning was two words: yes and no. So we don't know if that's actually responding? Did she actually hear us, or she didn’t? I don't want to rush the information. But I don’t want to say she can hear or she cannot hear. It's still early.

CO: That's encouraging news though.

WA: It's amazing news to me. But I don't want to rush things.

CO: The day of the shooting at the mosque, and I hate to take you there, but you were going with your daughter. Was that something you did routinely? Did you and Alen and go to mosque together all the time?

WA: With my work hours, my weekend is Monday and Tuesday. I used to take Alen on Monday and Tuesday and hang out, send her to school. At that particular Friday, I have a day off in the morning. So I decided not to take Alen to school. And we decided to go play around and have some coffee, and then take her with me to the mosque. That was her first time in life.

CO: So you and Alen were coming up to Al Noor mosque. When did you first see the shooter?

WA: It was about 35-25 metres from the mosque when I was walking into the mosque. And a guy comes out, and he sai to me Wasseim, run. It didn't come to my mind that something was wrong because I didn't see blood, but I saw him. Anyway, by the time I said what's happened? I saw military guy walking out of the mosque. He was holding AR-15, black; helmet; authorities in New Zealand uniform. So I have to give him respect. And when he loaded his weapon, I noticed something wrong. A few seconds, I hold my daughter from her front shirt. And when I put my daughter he got her in the bum and the tummy.

CO: Do you believe he was he was aimed at her? He was going after her?

WA: Yes, because she got hit first. The reason why I got shot in the head, her height it was exactly where as I get shot.

CO: She was shot in these places, and then what did you do then to try and get away from the shooter.

WA: I just threw her and I throw myself aside because when I get shot, my two legs collapsed together. Once I hit another bullet, I thought that he is coming back to us. So I put my head on the ground completely. Looks like I am dead. And then I heard him start his car and driving away. Two strangers come pass, ask us what's going on, what's been happening. And I said to him my daughter bleeding. But because she bleeding from the back and she bleeding from the tummy. Because the bullet that he used, they explode inside the body. My daughter Alen tell me it's really small. She lost a lot of blood because the bullet has explode on the skin. And then I ask another stranger please take us to the hospital. We cannot wait to the ambulance. Within three minutes, we was in a hospital. He drove on the footpath. He cut the light. He was amazing guy. Amazing, amazing kiwi guy help us. By the time they put me in the bed, I stopped bleeding. They start cutting my clothes with a scissor. And I was complaining that I can't take them off. That's the only things I remember we walked into the hospital until I wake up.

CO: When you came out of your own coma, you learned that your daughter was still alive.

WA: I didn't even know that. So I was asking two questions. I was asking about my friend, who passed away in the mosque. I was asking about him. And I was telling I couldn't save my daughter. I couldn't save my daughter.

CO: You thought she hadn't survived?

WA: Yes. So the doctors and everybody and even I saw some flash people that I know in Christchurch, they told me your daughter it's fine. I didn't believe them.

CO: What was that like for you, Wasseim, to see your daughter?

WA: I was a still in coma, but I was slightly opening my eyes. The nerves when he took me to see my daughter, I start crying, and I asked to hold his hand, and hold my daughter hand. And I say to him I thank him a lot. And I was talking to them, and we all start crying.

CO: I'm happy for that. I'm happy that you survived and that she is there for you, and with you. All the people who helped, everything you've experienced in this, what has that meant for you to see the help you've had from people in New Zealand? The support that came. What have you learned about the society you live in?

WA: He, the shooter, he didn't succeed. He will never succeed, even if there’s 100 children like him. We love each other, but we didn't tell each other how much we love each other. It was like a family that we see each other every day. But we didn't say to each other how much we care about each other. Once this happened, it united us again. He showed us the love in this country — the actual people here. So we love it, and we want to stay here. We're not going anywhere because we call New Zealand it's home.

CO: Wasseim, that is just an extraordinary message, and lesson to be taken from this. And I just admire your courage and your strength and your love so much. Thank you.

WA: You ,are most welcome. Thank you very much.

CO: Take care.

JD: Wasseim Alsati and his daughter were shot in the Christchurch mass shooting one month ago. We reached Mr. Alsati in Auckland. The family has set up a 'Give-a-little' crowdfunding campaign for Alen's care. If you'd like to learn more about this story, visit our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Sombre]

When Calls the Heart

JD: There's nothing quite as uplifting as the Hallmark series "When Calls the Heart". There's also nothing quite as confusing as its title: "When Whats the What"?! Now, I said "When Calls the Heart". You may have seen it on CBC-TV. It's the heartwarming tale of a young teacher in the mining town of Coal Valley, Alberta, near the turn of the 20th century. If you're imagining white folks in anachronistically clean period clothing overcoming minor disagreements, you're imagining correctly. There are horses too. Now, people who are devoted to the program want to see a sanitized depiction of what's usually called "a simpler time". That is an issue for "When Calls the Heart". Because the mayor of Coal Valley is played by Lori Loughlin — one of the big stars alleged to be involved in a complicated college bribery scandal. How can the star of an escapist TV show be one of the problems its fans are trying to escape? Well, Hallmark has the answer to that: she can't. It just announced that the upcoming Season 7 will not feature Ms. Loughlin. They're going to write her out somehow. Simple. Problem is the rest of Season 6 has already been shot. But Hallmark has a slightly less simple answer to that: it's editing her out of every episode. What an ingenious solution. For example, take this scene, in which Ms. Loughlin — playing "Abigail" — is about to go on a date with Frank, which Elizabeth — the teacher — encourages. But Cody, an orphan in Abigail's care, is not into it.

SOUNDCLIP

ELIZABETH: Cody, Cody. Isn't Miss Abigail's dress beautiful?

CODY: I guess.

ABIGAIL: Cody, I won't be long. And you'll have fun at Miss Thatcher's.

C: No, I wont.

E: Sure you will. We'll study your spelling words will eat spaghetti and meatballs. You can play catch with Constable Thornton while I shop for dinner. Don't you want to practice your pitching?

C: I'd rather stay here with Miss Abigail.

A: We will study your spelling words tomorrow I promise. And I’ll bake pie for dessert. OK.

C: OK.

JD: Once Ms. Loughlin and her character are judiciously edited out, that seamlessly becomes this!

SOUNDCLIP

ELIZABETH: Cody, Cody. Isn't dress beautiful?

CODY: I guess.

E: We'll study your spelling words will eat spaghetti and meatballs. You can play catch with Constable Thornton while I shop for dinner. Don't you want to practice your pitching?

C: I'd rather stay here with… OK.

JD: You hardly notice it at all. And even if there are one or two minor glitches, it's to be expected when "When Calls the Heart" becomes "When Culls the Art".

[Music: Hip-hop]

Part three: Kashechewan: NDP Charlie Angus, flushable wipes

Penticton shooting

JD: First, residents in downtown Penticton, British Columbia were told to stay inside. Now, police say four people are dead. The RCMP say the four victims were targeted in shootings in three separate locations in the city this morning. Police say that a man has turned himself in, but they have not said anything about his motive. Shelley Halvorson works at J & E Automotive Services in Penticton, near where one of the shootings happened. She spoke with the CBC about what she heard.

SOUNDCLIP

SHELLEY HALVORSON: Well, we were just sitting here, or I was sitting in my office, and all of a sudden, I heard this pop, pop, pop. I heard about four or five of this noise. And I thought it was our tire machine, right? And then I didn't think anything more of it because he's doing tires at the back. And all of a sudden, the cop cars are just going like crazy all over here. There was like five or six cop cars. And then as I was watching, there was a fellow laying on the ground in the grass. And I'm assuming he was shot because nobody was allowed to go down there. And I guess the fellow is on the run… was on the run with a rifle. I don't know if he's been found or not? But yeah, it's been quite the interesting morning here. This is a little too close. I've never experienced that this close, knowing that there was somebody on the run with a shotgun running right past your work, right? Oh oh. Oh oh. Somebody come home, and they're running screaming. Oh no. Oh oh what's going on? Oh, that must be the lady that lives in the house. She's just distraught. Oh no. Oh no. Oh, oh, she's falling to the ground. Oh my goodness sakes. Yeah, yeah, the police aren't letting her go through.

JD: That was Shelley Halvorson speaking with CBC reporter Joel Ballard in British Columbia. The RCMP say four people have died after a string of shootings in downtown Penticton — and that a suspect has turned himself in.

[Music: Sombre]

Kashechewan: NDP Charlie Angus

Guest: Charlie Angus

JD: Today, residents of Kashechewan First Nation began leaving their homes. They're hoping those homes will still be standing when they return. Kashechewan is a Cree community on the shor of James Bay. And every spring, its residents must leave, to escape the rising floodwaters of the Albany River. This year, a planned evacuation was scheduled for this Sunday. But it's happening now, after a state of emergency was called — despite the fact that the community is supposed to permanently relocated. Charlie Angus is the NDP MPP for the area. We reached him in Cobalt, Ontario.

CO: Mr. Angus, what are you hearing about the situation in Kashechewan right now?

CHARLIE ANGUS: Well, the evacuation is well underway. We have people being flown out to centers Timmins, Kapuskasing, Cornwall, and Thunder Bay. And we have really good teams working with the community. But when I talk to the people, there is a lot of frustration, and a lot of anger. And that might seem very normal, but people in Kashechewan and are very patient people. They`ve put up with a lot of I think systemic abuse. But this year, this is a hard one because they really thought this was the year they were finally going to start to move to high ground. And instead, it's off to emergency centers once again because of the risk of flooding.

CO: Now, So every year, just about, there's been something happens that they have to evacuate because of the Albany River. And every year, there's a discussion that this is the last year. And so what is the problem? Of course, you're the NDP, so you don't have the answer to it, but why can't they get this community to higher ground?

CA: Well, I mean it's political will. We had a signed agreement in 2005, and the government broke that. Then the government promised to spend millions and millions to make them safe on the flood plain. But the reality is the engineering reports show us that this large dirt wall dike that separates the lowland community from the Albany River cannot be made safe. And, quote, It's an intolerable risk. So every year now, we have to evacuate. In 2017, we had an agreement with the Trudeau government. There was a planning committee meeting regularly about what it would take to start the move. And it was all dependent really on what came down in this last budget, and there's zero dollars. So you can't move a community to high ground with zero dollars. So once again, this is a community that is at serious, serious risk. This year could be catastrophic flooding because of the heavy snows that we saw in the Albany River this year. And people are just… they're just really tired. It's very, very traumatic every year.

CO: And this past winter, you were there, and you got a chance to see this deteriorating conditions of this dike. What did you see?

CA: Well, we went along the Albany, along the dike wall because this is where the government spent 15 million dollars under the Stephen Harper government trying to stabilize it. If you look at it, you can see where the cement is starting to break away. And in the spring, the ice will be thrown up against that dike wall and these ice flows are the size of big vehicles. And they just they just jam up against it and put enormous pressure on. And then the water flows up behind them. So where we were standing, and we took a number of photos, that's all going to be underwater by probably the end of next weekend.

CO: We heard the new Indigenous Services Minister says the government is working with the community on technical aspects of this move we're talking about. In the meantime, they've allocated money for repairs to the dikes to make sure the flood damage is minimal. So what more could they be doing in the short term until they can arrange this bigger plan of getting them to higher ground?

CA: Well, I mean they can't fix that dike wall, so they're just making stuff up for your listeners. That's what they're doing. That's what they've done year in year out. If the dike wall gives way, or if water gets in, which it's done in the past, the subdivision that was rebuilt after 2013 flood will be wiped out again. Buildings that have been repaired time and time again will be damaged again. So they're willing to put a Band-Aid on a septic wound, but they're not willing to drain the septic wound. And that's the fundamental problem. This is the pattern. Year in year out, government will not commit to doing what needs to be done. And nobody's asking this community to be rebuilt overnight. Everybody talked about this as a 10-year vision, building maybe 50 homes a year, of training up young people to be in charge. We've done this in one of our other northern communities that was wiped out by a flood in the 1980s, and that community is a model now. You never see broken windows or graffiti. People built their own community, and live with a lot of hope because they were in charge of it. Kashechewan, they've heard this talk from government before. And nobody believes it.

CO: When you say they can start building 50 units a year, where? Is there an actual location? Is there actually a blueprint for this?

CA: There was always a plan. It was called Site Five. It's up on the high ground in the Kasechewan territory. This was the agreement back in 2005 with the Martin Government. These were the discussions with the Harper government. People have always said well, they didn't want to move, or they wanted to move to Timmins. It's always been a sideshow. The community's always known where they needed to be because they never wanted to be on the floodplain in the first place. You know, the Cree didn’t survive six thousand years on the James Bay Coast by living on a floodplain. The government moved them there. The government ignored where they wanted to live from the beginning. And the government is leaving them on the floodplain today. Meanwhile, we've got lots of talk. We've got lots of plans. We've got lots of sketches and designs. And we're ready to go. We just need that government to come back to the table and say this is nut spending millions every single year on evacuations, on dislocating people, on disrupting children’s schools for upwards of a month, and then going back and fixing all the damage to the homes. Let's just stop that craziness, and start to plan an orderly development of a new community that will over the coming ten years transform the people of Kashechewan.

CO: How long might it take before they can return home?

CA: It will really depend on the extent of the flooding and how fast the water moves. We've had a many, many families from the 2013-2014 flood who weren't able to come home for two years. They were stuck, put up in apartments in Kapuskasing and elsewhere because of the damage to their homes. That was really traumatic. So if this is a bad flood year, some people may not be coming home for a long time.

CO: We're talking about 2,500 people here, right?

CA: Yeah. There's well over two thousand people. And you know when I was talking to the chief and deputy chief I mean we've got elders who are sick. We've got kids who need schooling. We've got a whole series of issues that have to be factored in. I mean imagine any community being evacuated once, it's traumatic. When it's done every single year, the effects are compounded.

CO: Mr. Angus, I appreciate speaking with you. Thanks.

CA: Thank you so much.

JD: Charlie Angus is the NDP MP for Timmins-James Bay. We reached him in Cobalt, Ontario. Again beginning today, members of the Kashechewan First Nation began leaving the reserve, located on James Bay, because of severe flood risk.

[Music: Industrial]

Bibi Andersson obit

JD: Her most famous performances were filmed in black and white. Bibi Andersson herself supplied the colour. Ms. Andersson, a Swedish actor whose work with Ingmar Bergman made her an international art-house star, has died. She was 83 years old. Mr. Bergman cast her in ten features and three TV films — including "The Seventh Seal", "Wild Strawberries", and "Persona". And audiences were just as transfixed by her as he evidently was. Here's a short clip of her in "Persona", acting opposite a reticent Liv Ullman

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: Speaking in a foreign language]

JD: In June of 1991, Bibi Andersson was a guest on the CBC program, "The Arts Tonight". Here she is speaking with Shelagh Rogers.

SOUNDCLIP

BIBI ANDERSSON: I have to confess something. It's very hard to adjust to the fact that you get older. If you start very young, I mean I never thought I was pretty. When I look at myself today, I can say this was a very pretty young girl, what did I worry about? But I was always pain and play. And you have these enormous close ups. And then you see yourself get older, you see that, and you see that. One day, I said I don't want to see it anymore. I want to live. I don't want to worry about how I look, or how does it come out. And yeah, I want to worry so I look like a nice, decent person. But I don't want to be stuck with this. And that is an illness that gets us who are exposed to these photographic images. If I get parts where I absolutely can play my age, my personality, whatever I have become.

SHELAGH ROGERS: And the theatre?

BA: In the theatre, I can always imagine that I look how I feel. It's tough because you have to play every night. It doesn't pay so well. It's a repertory. It's an ensemble. I'm happy. I'm happy doing that. And I'm happy to see the growth of young actors. And I'm very proud that we have that possibility, which you don't have so much here. We have still a state that supports this profession.

JD: That was Swedish actress Bibi Andersson speaking to Shelagh Rogers on the CBC show, "The Arts Tonight", in June 1991. Bibi Andersson died yesterday in Stockholm. She was 83 years old.

[Music: Ambient]

Flushable wipes

Guest: Barry Orr

JD: When you flush a toilet, what's in it goes away. It's one of the great modern miracles — the kind you only notice when it doesn't happen. At which point, you wield a plunger in a trembling hand, dripping sweat, and wonder: were those wipes really "flushable"? Well, a comprehensive new study from Ryerson University will clear up that question for you. And the answer is, definitely and categorically: no. No, so-called "flushable" wipes are actually flushable. Barry Orr led the study. He's also a sewer inspector in London, Ontario. That's where we reached him.

CO: Mr. Orr, you know a lot of people out there think that a flexible wipe is just that. What do you say to them?

BARRY ORR: No current labeled wipe as flushable has passed our international test.

CO: OK. How did you test it? What did you do to find out that they… first of all, when we talk about not being flushable, does it mean that it can't be flushed, or that it shouldn't be flushed?

BO: Well, that's a good point. We say that it shouldn't be flushed because of the harm it can cause your own sewer system, but also municipalities’ sewer systems. So technically, it would fit down through the toilet, but many things can fit down through the toilet. And would you put a label on them as flushable?

CO: I think a lot of parents know that a lot of things can be flushed down a toilet — unsuccessfully, in most cases, with their own children experimenting with that. But yes, people think that they can flush things. Obviously, flushable wipes would be something you think that would go down. But what did you find out? What happens to flushable wipes as they make their way into the system?

BO: So we simulated what was going on in your house all the way right out to the road and the sewer main. And we were finding that wipes, as they increased in size, needed more flushes to get out of that drain line. So right there is the first key thing that a resident should know is that by using something like a wipe, and it gets trapped in your private drain connection, then you could be the one immediately paying for that cleanup.

CO: So what's your gold standard? What good does something have to do in order to be called flushable?

BO: Well, a couple of years ago, internationally wastewater professionals had come up with a statement. And the statement was a product would need to disperse rapidly. That means it would need to fall apart into pieces rapidly. It would need to not harm the environment. So looking at things like plastic fibers and synthetic fibers, we don't want that getting into the natural and water environment. We wouldn't want it to be buoyant. So we don't want them to float. So those are some of the international criteria that has been set out by wastewater professionals. Our study was able to show that toilet tissue was clearing the drain line and it was falling apart very quickly. As you go into things like wipes and paper towels and dog poop bags and facial tissue, all of these things could become somewhat trapped.

CO: Wait a second… people flush their dog poop bags down the toilet?

BO: Unfortunately, there are products labeled as flushable for dog poop.

CO: Ok, that’s another story for another time. That's quite extraordinary. OK. So you tested if it gets out of the house for one thing. And then what happens when it gets into the big system? I mean does it then disappear and go where it's supposed to go?

BO: Well, what happens is we have done a test collaborating with the manufacturers of the wipes. This is a slosh box test that we all have agreed we can use to mimic what's going on in a sewer system. And so we put it into the slosh box test to see if it will actually fall apart within the flowing sewer mains. And we weren't finding any of them passing. That's really concerning because in the sewer line, it's moving along to pumps, it's moving into grinders, it's moving in the course stream. You know sometimes it even directly goes out to the natural environment, and there is nothing there other than a creek or a river. So that that's the kind of stuff we were finding.

CO: But I went online. I was looking at different ones — the flushable wipes — that they're actually advertised as such. And a lot of them say that they are eco-friendly, that they are biodegradable, they're not made with plastics, no plastics at all in their products. And they advertise these alternative flushable wipe. What about those?

BO: Well, let me just grab some labelling off of one of these flushable wipe packages. And it's labeled flushable, and on the package, it says do not flush if you have a pump. Not all systems can handle flushable wipes. So you've got really a lot of confusion around this packaging, where you label it as a flushable wipe, but then you're saying well, not all systems can accept this flushable wipe. And the other thing is that we have to remember that biodegradable and all-natural and organic and compostable that might work in a commercial composting facility, but we don't have those same conditions within the wastewater system or in the natural environment. So we need to be really cautious about what gets down into our system.

CO: We've done a number of stories of people in the UK because they've had these fatbergs, as I'm sure you know about, that are just causing enormous havoc in the sewer system where these wipes are mixing with dental floss and with grease from kitchens, and making these giant, giant globs that don't allow anything to get through. Is that happening in Canadian municipalities as well?

BO: Yeah, there are there are problems here in our sewer system. And many of our municipalities are spending hundreds upon thousands of dollars flushing sewer lines, and making sure that those sewer systems are performing appropriately so there isn't damage to somebody's house or to the environment itself. So yeah, there's a lot of issues in Canada. But it seems that people are paying attention, and they are making better decisions on what they put down the drain or what they put into a toilet.

CO: Well, in the U.K., they've had this really large information campaign. They have told people there's advertising, warnings about it. Plus, they have in many cases banned these products that are causing the problem. So do you think that Canada on a government level has to get more aggressive?

BO: For sure, we have been speaking to the government as a group that I represent — the Municipal Enforcement Sewer Use Group — and we have been talking with the government for years on getting a regulation in place. And we hope that the Ryerson report will help our government understand that we need legislation for products to be labeled flushable. And this is really our next step.

CO: All right. We got it. Mr. Orr, thank you.

BO: Oh, thanks for having me today.

CO: Bye.

JD: Barry Orr led a new study on flushable… so called flushable wipes. He's also a sewer inspector with the City of London, Ontario. If you'd like to learn more on this story, visit our website, which is: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Ambient]

Ugandan kids choir

JD: They were in Canada to raise money for Ugandan children to attend school. But over the weekend, a truck belonging to the choir was broken into in downtown Vancouver. Thousands of dollars in donations were stolen, along with other important items. Doug Sadler is president of Seven Wells Ministries Canada, which sponsors the Sawuti Children's Choir. Here he is, speaking to the CBC.

SOUNDCLIP

DOUG SADLER: The team was engaged in doing so street ministry performances with a local ministry there in Vancouver called Pink Sapphires. And they normally keep the bags with computers and valuables and offerings from previous engagements with them. But on this occasion, they put them back in the vehicle just to go get a quick bite to eat. They were within eyesight of the trucks I believe. But someone smashed the window and took these two bags. We lost two laptops, an iPad, a hard drive, and a bunch of money and cash and offerings. Those are really awkward. We also lost on the computer the performance tracks that we were using for the kids to perform to. Now, those are all easily enough replaceable, and ultimately the cash is gone, and the checks can be cancelled by people. But more importantly, two of our chaperones — Chris and Abigail — they had their passports in there, and on this personal computer, he had pretty much his life's work as a teacher, and a lot of their personal documents and information. And they are quite devastated by the loss of all that. It's a bit tragic that we were gathering funds that we use for our ministry in terms of helping kids in Uganda, and helping widows there. And a lot of that cash and funds in terms of checks is just gone, which is a little bit tragic in that sense. These choir tours are the ways that we recruit new sponsors for kids in need over there. That's what our main work is. And every one of these tours happens as a huge step of faith, and we're always on a shoestring. So financially, this has been awkward. But we in the final analysis, we trust that God is going to provide.

JD: They were in Canada to raise money for Ugandan children to attend school. But over the weekend, a truck belonging to the choir was broken into in downtown Vancouver. Thousands of dollars in donations were stolen, along with other important items. Doug Sadler is president of Seven Wells Ministries Canada -- which sponsors the Sawuti Children's Choir. Here he is, speaking to the CBC.

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April 15, 2019 episode transcript

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