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The AIH Transcript for January 16, 2017

Hosts: Helen Mann and Karen Gordon

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

HELEN MANN: Hello I'm Helen Mann.

KAREN GORDON: Good evening. I'm Karen Gordon. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

KG: Tonight.

HM: All helicopters breaking loose, the PM says he's happy to chat with the ethics commissioner about his chopper trip to the Aga Khan's private island. But NDP Leader Tom Mulcair says Mr. Trudeau should be grounded for breaking the law.

KG: A monumental civil rights moment gets its monument's President Obama announces an official commemoration of the fire-bombing of a bus full of Freedom Riders in Alabama in 1961. And we'll speak with a survivor of that attack.

HM: Sending their regrets to a man who has none. More and more Democrats announced they'll be boycotting Donald Trump's inauguration on Friday. And tonight Congresswoman Barbara Lee explains why she won't be there.

KG: An avoidable crisis. A coroner's inquest ruled that five suicides in a remote Quebec Inuit community could have been prevented if it weren't for what he calls “the apartheid system that many Aboriginal communities live within.”

HM: A journey of shelf-discovery. An Ontario teacher goes online to replace a missing book with a used copy. But when it's delivered, she finds she's had firsthand experience with that second-hand book.

KG: And I think I smell a rat. But do I? Soon we'll all know for sure whether it's fair to blame various creatures for various odors because scientists are creating a comprehensive database of which animals pass gas and which do not. As It Happens, the Monday edition. Radio takes a closer look at the bottoms of the food chain.

Part 1: Ethics probe: Mulcair, Congress boycott, animal farts

Ethics probe: Mulcair

Guest: Tom Mulcair

KAREN GORDON: The prime minister was in Nova Scotia today. But a trip he took a couple of weeks ago is getting all the attention. The ethics commissioner has made Mr. Trudeau the first prime minister to be investigated for violating the Conflict of Interest Act. At issue is his family's new year's visit to the Aga Khan's private island in the Bahamas, the island they travel to and from on the Aga Khan’s handy helicopter. Mr. Trudeau was asked about the ethics investigation on Halifax's News 95.7 this afternoon. Here's some of what the prime minister had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: Well I think I've heard I've heard from a number of people across the country that they're concerned about this and that's why I take this very seriously and I'm happy to respond to all questions that the Ethics Commissioner and others may have. The fact is, I've been fortunate enough to know to know the spiritual leader of the Ismaili Muslims, the Aga Khan, for all my life and I was glad to see him on vacation. But of course I'm open and welcoming any questions or concerns people have because people's trust in government than in those who serve them is really important to me.

KG: That was Prime Minister Justin Trudeau speaking to Halifax's News 95.7 this afternoon. Tom Mulcair has a slightly different take on Mr. Trudeau's New Year's vacation. We reached the NDP leader in Montreal.

HELEN MANN: Tom Mulcair, you wrote to the Ethics Commissioner today saying the Prime Minister had broken the law. Is it really so cut and dry?

TOM MULCAIR: It's really that cut and dry. It's black and white. There's a very strict prohibition against accepting an aircraft ride from a private interest like that. And since they knew what the trip was going to be involving they had the obligation at the very least to consult the Ethics Commissioner, which they did not do, and that's why we're in the unprecedented position of seeing a sitting prime minister breaking the law.

HM: There are lines in the law though that say that under exceptional circumstances or with the Ethics Commissioner's approval, one might be able to take such a private aircraft. Is it not potentially an exceptional circumstance that he's friends with the Aga Khan and this is the only way, according to him, that he could get to the island?

TM: Again that's the type of thing that they would have known in advance. He was responsible for the consequences of his own actions. He's the one who chose to take that holiday. Nobody is saying he's not allowed to take a holiday. But like all Canadians, even when you're on vacation you still have to obey the law. So he would have, as you just correctly pointed out, he would have had to have run that by the Ethics Commissioner which he did not do.
And there's nothing exceptional about the fact that he wanted to take a holiday using somebody's private aircraft. That's what's prohibited. So, you know, I've been at this for a long time and I think that the most important message is that the law applies to everyone.
Mr. Trudeau has been sending a very dangerous message with regard to government ethics going back through the scandal involving cash for access. He's been trying to convince Canadians that he's going to hold his government to a higher standard. He had these new rules where you weren't even going to have the perception of a potential conflict of interest. When we proved that he had broken that, he said, “Well I didn't technically breach the law.”
Well now he has technically breached the law and it's a question that the signal that he's sending to his other ministers. He seems to be just shrugging it off. Well it's actually quite serious.

HM: And the Conflict of Interest Act says that public office holders and their families shouldn't accept gifts that might reasonably seem to have been given to influence the public office holder in the exercise of their power. Does it seem reasonable to you that the Aga Khan was trying to buy influence by inviting Justin Trudeau, his friend, and his friend's family to the island?

TM: Well this is about Mr. Trudeau's behavior and the law that we do have, Helen, is the most important bulwark to prevent private interests from influencing public decision-making. The government is there for an on behalf of everyone. And we've already seen with the cash for access, it's not the middle class that had the fifteen hundred dollars to have access to the prime minister, it was rich people who had issues that they wanted to discuss, government issues. And that's being investigated right now. But here, this is something again. Mr. Trudeau puts himself in this position then he says to Canadians once he gets caught, because of course they try to hide the whole thing at the beginning. There was no way to find out what had gone on, but bit by bit the truth started coming out. And it's only when he got caught that he started admitting the fact that he had taken the private plane for example, against the rules. So Mr. Trudeau can't have it both ways. He can't keep pleading that he's got a more clean government that he's being held to a higher ethical standard, and at the same time, the minute the truth starts to come out he's says “Well it doesn't really matter if we’ve breached the rules.”
It is very serious that a sitting prime minister has broken the law. In fact, in my career, I've never seen it before. It is unprecedented.

HM: Would you have felt the same way if he had indeed reported his plans to go to this island with the Aga Khan to the Ethics Commissioner prior to the trip?

TM: Well that would have shown a little bit less of the arrogance that we're seeing here. You see that's the problem again.

HM: But would that have been OK with you?

TM: Well, Mr. Trudeau, that's not what he did. So that's not what we're talking about, is it? Mr. Trudeau, when confronted with this last Thursday, he said he didn't see an issue with that. So not only did he not talk to the Ethics Commissioner, we know that, he went ahead and said it didn't really matter. And that's the thing, you see? The law applies equally to everyone. That's one of the bedrock foundations of our democracy. Nobody is above the law. So Mr. Trudeau, by trying to just sweep that under the rug and saying it didn't really matter is repeating the same mistake that he made. And it's starting to be a heavy tendency we're seeing with his government, with the cash for access. He said well the cash for access didn't technically breached the rules. The Ethics Commissioner looked at the cash for access and said it was unsavory. But then she said she can't enforce Mr. Trudeau's own rules. He put in writing to each of his ministers in their mandate letter that there wouldn't… there would not even be a hint of conflict of interest. There would be no perception of conflict of interest when there was a clear perception of conflict of interest. He went right back to the rules that he said he was going to reinforce and make even tougher. And he said well I haven't broken those. That's the thing that people are starting to see Helen is that there's a big difference between Mr. Trudeau talks about and what he actually does. There's been a lack of transparency, a lack of openness, and it only comes out bit by bit as he gets caught.

HM: You know the conflict of interest Act also says that gifts can be accepted if they are from friends. The prime minister points out that he's known the Aga Khan since he was a toddler. I guess the question is, is it his fault that he has friends with private islands.

TM: This has nothing to do with the case that we're discussing. What we're discussing here is a clear prohibition in the statute that says you're not allowed to take an airplane trip from a private interest, and especially in a case like this one where their private interest controls a big outfit that gets hundreds of millions of dollars from the Canadian government. That's where Canadians get to say “Hold on.” You know, I don't have $1500 to discuss business with Prime Minister Trudeau. Rich people get to do that, to discuss the bank that they want to get approved. And Mr. Trudeau allows that to happen.

HM: You heard his clip just as we were about to start this interview from earlier, saying that he’s heard from a number of Canadians. Do you have a sense of whether people are really outraged by this? I mean it would appear that voters don't seem to care that much.

TM: Well you know voters take stock of these issues one piece at a time. And it's true, you know. Not everybody has the time to follow every single piece of it. But after we went through several weeks of that Liberal arrogance before Christmas. “Well we didn't technically breach the rules.” No, but you said you were going to be held to a higher standard. “Yeah but that doesn't really matter anymore as long as we didn't technically breach the law.”
Now as it was clear that they had broken the law, they tried to stonewall, they tried to hide. People do pick up a general sense of a government and how they deal with them. So as Canadians are being told “Well go pay your taxes because you have to obey the law.” You know, respect the rules yourself. But, and by the way, the Prime Minister says, and this is a direct quote from him last week, that he “doesn't see an issue on that.”
Well, there is a big issue on that Helen, and it's the fact that the Prime Minister didn't respect the law. Now we're asking the Ethics Commissioner to deal with that part of her investigation rapidly and clearly. And yes, we do think that Mr. Trudeau is going to have to answer for it.

HM: Tom Mulcair, thank you very much for joining us.

TM: Thank you Helen.

HM: Okay, bye bye.

TM: Bye.

KG: Tom Mulcair is the leader of the NDP. He was in Montreal.

[Music]

Tape: MLK

KG: Today is Martin Luther King Jr. Day in the United States. And to mark the occasion, one radio station has opened its vault.
In 1961, a CBC reporter named Eleanor Fischer sat down for her first of several interviews with Dr. King. The tapes from those interviews have never been publicly released in their unedited form, until now. Yesterday, they were published online by the New York public radio WNYC, which Ms. Fischer founded.
In their first interview, Ms. Fischer asked Dr. King about his earliest recollections of experiencing racism. Here is part of his answer.

SOUNDCLIP

MARTIN LUTHER KING: I was raised and grew up on Auburn Avenue in Atlanta, and in front of our house was a store, and this store was operated by one of the white citizens of Atlanta. They had two or three children and we were about the same age. And when we were three and four we played together. And this was not an unusual thing. But I never would forget when the day came that my playmates, my inseparable playmates, just found excuses and refused to play with us. And then this continued for a week or two and I started talking with my mother about it. And for the first time, I came to see the problems. Because she tried to explain the best way she could to a child just five years old the problems which Negroes are confronted in the South as a result of the legacy of slavery and then segregation.

ELEANOR FISCHER: That must be a very difficult job for any mother. I wonder if any mother really can explain this to a child, especially a sensitive child.

MLK: Well it's almost impossible to thoroughly explain it. It seems to me that the only thing that the mother can do, the Negro mother, is try from the beginning to instill in the child a sense of somebody-ness. This was what my mother tried to do. She made it very clear that in spite of these conditions, you are as good as anybody else and you must not feel that you are not. This is very difficult because I mean even though you say this in words, it's very difficult for the child not to develop unconsciously a sense of inferiority, because he lives every day in the midst of a system which stands him in the face saying you are less than, you not equal to, and the tendency is to develop this sense of fear because of the existence of the system.

KG: That was Martin Luther King Jr. speaking to CBC reporter Eleanor Fisher in 1961. Yesterday the New York Public Radio station WNYC released about 90 minutes of never before heard tape of Miss Fischer's interviews with Dr. King. You can listen to them at wnyc.org.

[Music]

Congress boycott

Guest: Barbara Lee

KG: Donald Trump can cross a few names off his inauguration guest-list. After a testy back-and-forth on Twitter between the President-Elect and civil-rights hero Congressman John Lewis, some lawmakers are reconsidering their attendance at Trump's swearing-in party. Twenty-five of Mr. Lewis's colleagues in the House of Representatives now say they'll boycott the inauguration.
Barbara Lee was already planning to skip the event. She's a Democratic Congresswoman from California, and a member of the Congressional Black Caucus. We reached her in Oakland, California.

HM: Congresswoman Lee, what are your plans for Inauguration Day?

BARBARA LEE: Well first let me just mention that today is Dr. King's birthday, and so we're really honoring and celebrating the life and legacy of Dr. King. We have to really recognize that and go back to some of what he stood for in terms of not only being a dreamer and a visionary, but an agent of change. And he in his Vietnam speech at Riverside Church, in his speech, he said the time comes when silence is betrayal. And with regard to the inauguration, I recognize and respect the transfer of power, the fact that President-Elect Donald Trump will be sworn in as president. And I don't intend to be part of a celebration of the new administration based on the divisiveness of what the new administration is at least proposing and presenting to the public.

HM: But is the inauguration really about a celebration of the new administration or is it also about the peaceful transfer of power and I guess showing respect for the office?

BL: Certainly it's about the peaceful transfer of power and showing respect for the office. But I also have to say that for me personally, it's a celebration. And going back to Dr. King's birthday today which is what we really should be focusing on, you know when we have points of views that differ, we have to say what we believe, we have to speak our mind in a respectful way. And as Dr. King said, “Silence is betrayal.” And so I believe for me personally, that this is a celebration and I have said over and over again, I do respect the transfer of power. But you know in terms of divisiveness and in terms of the denigration of women and attempts to you know put forth the rationale for why we need to build a wall with Mexico, and a Muslim ban, and you know the nominee Jeff Sessions, the head of the Department of Justice, who has a history of opposing civil and human rights. For me, I have to look at that and make some decisions. And I did not make this decision lightly but these are issues that are going to be very important to address. And so I'm not in any way going to celebrate this at the inauguration.

HM: Did you intend to go to the inauguration before this dispute between Congressman John Lewis and the tweet from Donald Trump that suggested that Congressman Lewis, despite his history, was all talk talk talk.

BL: I decided not to go to the inauguration early last week. I think I issued a statement, probably last Thursday or Friday.
But with regard to Congressman Lewis, he's a moral leader. He's an icon. He's a civil and human rights leader. And it's an insult I think, to say that Congressman Lewis is about talk talk talk when you can look at his record, when you look at the fact that he helped pass the Voting Rights Act, the Civil Rights Act. He's a phenomenal effective legislator. He represents his district well. He's been on the Hill for quite a while doing the work that members of Congress do. And so it's just not right. It's inaccurate, it's unfair, and it's an insult.

HM: Right. What is your… what are you thinking about when you think about Congressman Lewis’ statement last week which he issued during an interview with NBC, saying that he didn't see Donald Trump as a legitimate president. Do you think that was appropriate?

BL: I'm not I can't comment on whether it was appropriate or not for Congressman Lewis to say what he said. But I do have to say that when Congressman Lewis speaks, the world listens. When you look at Russian and influence in these elections, regardless of the outcome, when you look at a foreign power interfering in the elections, we have to look at a process that appears to be flawed. The intelligence community has indicated very clearly that the Russians were involved on one side. That was Donald Trump's side, in terms of the campaign. But I have to say we're moving to try to get a bipartisan commission established that would be public, where the public will know what all of the interference was about. And then we will know what the facts are and be able to make a conclusion about the legitimacy or not. But at this point we just don't know because we don't have the facts out there yet. And so I'm urging the Congress to pass the legislation to establish this bipartisan commission.

HM: We have this pattern that has emerged already even before the inauguration, where when anybody criticizes Donald Trump, he responds with an attack on Twitter. Is this a preview, do you think, about what the next four years might look like?

BL: Based on just what his history has been, it's hard to see him changing. I would hope that he becomes more presidential in his behavior. But that remains to be seen. But again we're celebrating and honoring Dr. King today and we have to remember, you know the moral leadership that he represented and his legacy is one that we have to uphold today and take a stand and realize that we're going to have to resist some of the efforts that could be made that would erode Dr. King's dream.

HM: Martin Luther King the Third met with President-Elect Trump today at Trump Tower and when he emerged from the meeting, he said “Lots of things get said in the heat of emotion nut the goal should be to bring Americans together.” Is that possible, do you think, in the current climate? Are you willing to work with a President Trump in any way?

BL: I've always wanted to bring people together. I come from a district that's a progressive district that has historically worked with everyone because I think we need a unified country. We do not need Russian interference. We do not need a foreign power dividing us. And so we certainly need unity in our country.

HM: Congresswoman Lee, I appreciate you taking time to join us. Thank you.

BL: OK. Thank you.

KG: Barbara Lee is a Democratic congresswoman from California. We reached her in Oakland California.

[Music]

Animal farts

Guest: Dani Rabaiotti

KG: Consider, if you will, the following question: Who farted?
If you won't consider that question, fair enough. But you have to grant that it's a valid question. Because it's happening all the time. And finding out who or what broke wind isn't just about finger-pointing. It's about science, too. Which is why, recently, an international community of scientists has been collaborating online on a comprehensive database that sorts out, once and for all, which animals flatulate...and which don't.
That project started with zoology researcher Dani Rabaiotti. We reached her in London, England.\

HM: Ms. Rabaiotti, how did this animal farting database come about in the first place?

DANI RABAIOTTI: So a member of my family asked me and as a zoologist, you do get asked these sorts of questions quite a lot. They asked me, “Do snakes fart?” Now I study mammals so I didn't know very much about snake farting habits but because I'm quite active on Twitter and a lot of zoologists and biologists are, I knew exactly the person to ask. So I asked Dr. David Steen on Twitter, “Do snakes fart?” And the answer was “Yes.” And then other biologists got involved and suggested that it should be a hashtag. And from that I suggested you know combining database of all the animals you found out and whether they did or didn't fall. And that's kind of how this spreadsheet happened I guess.

HM: Can I ask the age of the relative who asked you the question?

DR: He's a teenager.

HM: I figured. Or younger. I guess that's the question kids ask a lot, huh?

DR: Yeah it is a question we get quite a lot from kids. I always say no matter how senior a scientist you become, that’s the question that kids want to know about the species that you study is do they fart. Which is why the sort of spreadsheet would be useful because obviously you can’t be an expert on every animal so it’s good to refer to.

HM: Yeah. So which other animals pass gas the most?

DR: I think probably my favorite story if the spreadsheet was the one about chimps and how if you are researching chimps, you can actually find them in the jungle from the sound of the farting, it’s so loud. So… and I think as well, there's some really interesting scientific papers out there on fish, on farting and fish, and some species of fish actually use farting as a form of communication and you get whole bays filled with fish farts apparently. And these are actually been published in scientific journals so I think there was an actual animal fart research is out there. Although I'm sure they do research other things as well.

HM: Which animals don't toot at all?

DR: So interestingly, if you look on the spreadsheet, there's a reference to the fact that birds don't fart, which is something that… I never knew that. And despite the fact they biologically can fart, they have all the anatomy there, they don't fart. So that was quite interesting because someone said that their friend’s parakeet had farted on them. But if you read the reference to the article about the fact that birds don’t fart, it does say that birds will make farting noises with their mouths but it isn’t actually a fault.

HM: One of our listeners who saw a tweet that we were doing this story contacted us to say that whale farts are particularly deadly. Is that true?

DR: I imagine they'd be very big. Like if you're on a small boat and loads of bubbles came up, that probably wouldn’t be great. But I can't say I've ever encountered anyone that's encountered a whale fart. And we didn't have any input from whale researchers in the spreadsheet so I'd be surprised if they didn't fart but we haven't got any positive confirmation on them as of yet.

HM: Any idea where domestic dogs fit in? Because I've had some experience with that.

DR: Oh yeah. Domestic dog farts are… well I don't know how bad they are though, because I know that definitely in my family, the dog gets blamed when it’s not necessarily the dog in my opinion so perhaps you may get the short end of the stick.

HM: Now there are any surprises on your list things that really caught you off guard?

DR: I was definitely surprised by millipedes actually. Apparently they release a combination of gasses and they do fart. And again there's a whole scientific paper on the gases that millipedes give off. So that was definitely a surprise.

HM: Is there any debate over what constitutes a fart?

DR: So there was debate around the spreadsheet for what constitutes a fart. So for example, someone put an entry for things like octopus and squid, and obviously they moved by jet propulsion. But is it a fart? I don't know. I think we need to get medical Twitter onboard to give us a pure medical definition of what a fart is if we really want to get that accurate description in.

HM: Yeah. Well actually I was wondering. Biologically speaking, you know, is there an explanation as to why some animals flagellate and others don't?

DR: So in the entry we have for birds, it said that birds don't have the same bacteria in their gut so they don't have as much gas. But then I guess it depends on anatomy as well. So we had marine invertebrates on there, saying that they don't fart. I mean if they don't have a stomach or a gut then I guess an animal probably wouldn't be able to fart.

HM: Who's been contributing to your spreadsheet?

DR: So I'd say mostly it's come from scientists who study a particular species. And some of it also, we made the call out for people own animals as well because obviously if you’re a pet owner, you know as well as anyone else what your pets are going to be doing.

HM: And the reaction? How’s it going?

DR: Yeah it's been interesting. I don't think any of us expected this when we first started chatting about it. Some people might say, oh it's a bit silly. But I think, if it gets kids interested and we've had teachers saying this on Twitter, we'd really like to use this spreadsheet to help us with teaching. And I think that sort of thing is really positive. If it’s a fun thing that teachers can use in the classroom then that's definitely really good.

HM: I've never thought of fart as a scientific term but I've learned a lot today. Thanks for talking to us.

DR: Yes thank you very much. Bye.

HM: Bye.

KG: Dani Rabaiotti is a researcher at the Zoological Society of London. She was in London England. And for those of you keeping score at home, that was 30 mentions of the words fart, farts or farting, by my count, plus one each of her flatulent, passed gas, and toot. All new As It Happens records.

Part 2: Freedom bus, Amazon book

Freedom Bus

Guest: Hank Thomas

KAREN GORDON: In May 1961, a bus carrying anti-segregation "freedom riders" was attacked by a white mob in Anniston, Alabama. Now, in one of his last acts as president, Barack Obama has declared a national monument be built at the site where that mob tried, and failed, to stop the civil rights activists.
Hank Thomas was on that bus on that day in 1961. He barely made it out alive. Today, we reached him in Atlanta, Georgia.

HELEN MANN: Mr. Thomas, what does it mean to you to have President Obama establish a national monument in Anniston, Alabama?

HANK THOMAS: Long time coming. I am very pleased that the other Freedom Riders are very pleased. It's new for the U.S. Parks Department, they establish monuments to tell the story of America and they understood that there were few of the parks and monuments that tell the story of Black America.

HM: Take us back to May of 1961. You and others were riding a bus to protest the failure of Southern states to desegregate buses. What happened that day in Aniston?

HT: Not only were the local white some of them protesting that, but they had gathered to do severe bodily harm to us and as it turned out, to kill us.

HM: What actions did they take? What did they do to put your life at risk?

HT: Well they disabled the bus by cutting the bus tires when the bus was in the station. And as the bus attempted to leave, after a few miles, was out of their tires, was disabled in front of a group of whites at a country store. I don't think that was necessarily prearranged, but as they started to attack the bus with bricks, sticks and any other implements they could use, and when they could not get aboard the bus, that's when… and I'm pretty sure this was prearranged, they had an incendiary grenade that they tossed aboard the bus through one of the back smashed out windows. And as the bus started to burn in a matter of seconds. And of course we tried to get out, two, three men outside were holding the door and we could hear cries of let's burn them alive. And at that point I had decided, I knew I was going to die. So it was a question of how. If I got off of that bus, was able to open that door, then the crowd outside was going to beat me to death. And if I stayed on the bus, well I was going to perish that way as well. I thought by staying on the bus and inhaling the smoke, that was the least awful way to die.

HM: How did you get off the bus.

HT: Within a few more seconds, or maybe a minute the fire aboard the back of the bus reached the fuel tank which is located in the rear. And when it did, it exploded and blew out the back of the bus. And everyone around that bus scattered, including the men who were holding it. And that was the only way we got out of the bus. Once I came out of the bus and they saw that they were pretty well safe, I was hit with an object, maybe a baseball bat or something of that nature. So as they started to attack us again it was only then everybody just stepped back and watched the bus burn but made sure that we stayed as close to the bus as possible and be very uncomfortable with that summer heat. That was it pretty much.

HM: You were 19 years old when this all happened. I am wondering how the experience of that that incident in an Aniston shaped your activism to follow.

HT: Well I had been involved in the sit-in movement. People asked the question how could I and what was I thinking at the age of 19? Well, I was a student of history and certainly a student of any movement for rights and privileges by oppressed people. I am familiar with what was going on in Europe, in Africa in terms of people fighting for their rights. I said if I was 19 and I had been living in what is now the state of Israel, I would have joined the Haganah. I was 19 and had been living in France in the 40s, I would have joined the French Underground. I was keenly aware as a very young fella, I knew that segregation was wrong, and I did my little acts of defiance as a lot of my colleagues did. And of course once we got into college and we were learning all about what this country is about. But you also know of the hypocrisy. My father was a soldier in World War Two. He was a Marine and when he got home in 1946, he was not allowed to vote.

HM: What is your sense of how Aniston has dealt with its racist past?

HT: I was pleasantly surprised to know how much that city had changed. I went back on the 40th anniversary and when we arrived in the city of Anniston, in the area where the bus station was, that was a sizable group of black and white citizens holding signs and ribbons, welcoming us back to Anniston. I was so overcome that I actually cried when I saw them. So obviously, even some 20 years ago, I knew that the city had changed.

HM: Did any of the participants in that terrible incident ever apologize to you or any of the other Freedom Riders?

HT: No they did not. As a matter of fact, I met one of the men in the mob, and I extended my hand to him and he refused to shake my hand. Now I was a soldier in Vietnam and I also went back to Vietnam in the 90s. And when I landed in Hanoi, I was particularly impressed by the greeting and welcome that I receive from veteran Vietnam soldiers. When I told a reporter about the two encounters, this is what he said to me. He said “That North Vietnam soldier wanted to kill you because of the color of the uniform you had. The man in Alabama wanted to kill you because the color of your skin. You're still the same color.” I'll never forget that.

HM: What impact do you think a monument's at this site will make at this point?

HT: In a way I guess we can say the state of Alabama has more places to develop monuments to the fight for freedom than any other southern state. And I hope that will happen. I doubt if it will happen under the Trump administration. Well people can understand. Alabama was one of the bloodiest in terms of the things they did to keep black people from enjoying its freedom. But at the same time, we won so many battles there, and for today I see Dr. Martin Luther King Day as a day of celebration of our victories.

HM: Mr. Thomas it's a privilege to speak with you. Thank you very much for joining us.

HT: Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Goodbye now.

KG: We reached Hank Thomas in Atlanta Georgia. Mr. Thomas is a former civil rights freedom rider. He was on a bus in Anniston, Alabama in May 1961 when it was attacked by a white mob. President Barack Obama has announced the establishment of a national monument at the site of the attack.

[Music]

Dateline: Train Swan

KG: Dateline: London, England.

[Music]

KG: On Friday, passengers on a train from Teddington to Kingston Upon Thames had some pressing questions. Questions like: "Why are we going so...unbelievably...slowly?" or "Am I going to make my appointment?" And then, after they found out what was holding them up: "Is this a joke?"
The train driver had questions too. "Why is this happening to me?"; "Is that thing stupid, stubborn, or completely oblivious?", and "How long am I going to have to stare at this swan's butt?"
The answer to that last question was: for 3.2 kilometres. That's how long the driver glared at the swan's rear end. Because that's how long the swan walked in front of the train into southwest London. Refusing to move. Refusing to take flight. Refusing to leave the train track. Just waddling the whole way, at its own speed, which was the speed of a waddling swan, which is not fast.
Passengers waiting for that train on Friday morning watched in disbelief as the swan marched triumphantly into the station. Followed by a train limping pathetically into the station, about a metre behind the swan.
Eventually, the swan was caught, and released far from the train tracks. So now it has plenty of time to ask questions of its own. Questions like, "What just happened?" and "Was 'more long walks' really the best New Year's resolution?" And, of course, "Why was that train driver staring at my butt?"

[Music]

Amazon Book

Guest: Gena Zuroski

KG: Five years ago, Gena Zuroski lent a book to one of her students. But you know how some people are with books: the student never returned it.
It was disappointing, but not totally unexpected. So, last month, Ms. Zuroski gave up on getting the book back, and just decided to replace it, by ordering a used one from Amazon.
She knew exactly what she was getting, of course. But when the book showed up last week, she was still surprised.
Gena Zuroski is an English professor at McMaster University. We reached her in Hamilton, Ontario.

HM: Gina Zuroski, what did you discover when the used copy of this book was delivered to you?

GINA ZUROSKI: I found it in my mailbox in my office here at McMaster on Monday. I had ordered several books before the winter break, and they had all arrived and were waiting for me on Monday so I brought the package back to my office and opened it up and it was really… it was when I opened the front cover and saw my name written on the title page that I realised that it was a copy that I had previously owned.

HM: What did you think of that moment?

GZ: I was completely shocked. I was really stunned. I actually closed the book and put it down on the desk and then picked it back up again and opened it again to make sure I was actually seeing what I was seeing. But I was I was flabbergasted and my heart started racing. I was actually shaking a little bit. I ran across the hall to my colleague’s office to show her but she had left for the day. I tried to call my husband on the phone and he didn't pick up so then I took to Facebook. I had to announce to somebody.

HM: Were that were there other things beyond your name inside the book that were familiar to you once you held it in your hands?

GZ: I mean absolutely. And what was really funny about the process of opening this book was that this is a book that I have had since I was a graduate student at Brown University. I bought it in 2000 and I know that because I used to write my name and the date that I bought my books back then because I felt like I was building a library. And so I've had this book for a long time and I used it very heavily when I was writing my doctoral dissertation. It was kind of an important book to me in my research. So when I opened the package, I actually felt for a moment some anxiety that it would be weird to read somebody else's copy of this book, because over the years I'd read it multiple times and I've underlined things and I've made notes in the margins, and I thought it might be strange to read somebody else's notes in this book. But when I opened it, the object felt very familiar like it was just as worn in as the copy that I remembered owning. So when I opened it and saw my name in it, it was a really uncanny experience. All my marginalia, all my underlining is in there.

HM: So what is the name of the book and what's it about?

GZ: So the title is Consuming Subjects: Women, Shopping and Business in the 18th century and it's by Elizabeth Kowaleski-Wallace. And the topic of the book is also kind of part of the uncanniness of this whole experience because it's a history of women's shopping practices. And Elizabeth Kowaleski-Wallace shows that the way that we continue to shop today actually originates in 18th century British culture which encouraged women to buy things in this mode in which they identify closely with the things they buy and kind of cultivate these very close feelings of attachment to their commodities and the things that they own. So my buying my own book with my name in it that I do indeed feel very closely attached to was in a weird way a kind of performance of her argument.

HM: Yeah exactly. Given that you know you're so familiar with the material, what is it that you wanted the book for so badly. What are you going to use it for?

GZ: Well so I've always lent it out to students, which is how I think it disappeared from my shelves in the first place. It's a book that was really important to me when I was first getting into the field of 18th century literary studies. So I frequently recommend it to my graduate students. And I always lend my books out freely to my graduate students. Most of the time they come back. But every once in a while they don't. And that's OK. Although in this case, I was sorry to lose this one because this book was kind of special to me. But I have a Ph.D. student right now. Krista Paquin who's writing a really brilliant dissertation and I wanted her to read this book. So before Christmas, I decided to finally order a replacement copy so that I could lend it to her. And that's why I decided to buy it now. It's been missing from well for about four or five years.

HM: Do you remember who you loaned it to? I mean have you tried to figure that out?

GZ: I don't have any idea who I loaned it to. I know it must have been one of my students in my time at MacMaster. I've been here since 2009 but I really have no idea. And I actually put out on social media today a very serious note and I said you know total amnesty if the person who sold my book comes forward. I really I'm not at all upset. But I'm so curious to know some of the details of where this book has been.

HM: Yeah. Well given how important this is to you, you sound surprisingly okay with what happened and I'm wondering does that mean you're willing to loan out other books and take a chance?

GZ: Yes absolutely. I've always shared my books and I know that having them disappear from you is one of the… one of the things that happens when you learn things out freely. But I love books. I have a lot of them and I like them to circulate, and I like to share the things I have. I like to share my reading experiences with other people. So I'll definitely continue to loan my books out and actually this adventure has been a kind of confirmation that, you know, I can do that, I can let them go, and if they really want to, they will come back.

HM: I have to ask. Do you know how far this one traveled?

GZ: It was sent to me from Motor City Books in St. Louis. So it went at least that far, across the border.

HM: Wow. Well it's great. It's I mean it be wonderful to be able to track where they all ended up. Thank you for telling us your story.

GZ: Yes of course. Thank you for listening to it.

HM: Okay bye.

GZ: Bye bye.

KG: Gena Zuroski is an English professor at McMaster University. Last month she decided to replace a missing book by ordering a used copy from Amazon. The book Amazon sent her was the actual book she'd lost five years ago. We reached Ms. Zuroski in Hamilton, Ontario.

[Music]

Cow Logo

KG: After more than twenty years of service, a long time employee of one of Canada's biggest advocacy groups has been fired. They've gathered her belonging in a box – just the one, the bell from around her neck – and ushered her out of the barn. She was brave about it: her amiable expression never faded. But it must have hurt to read the dismissive words of marketing and retail director Victoria Cruz, who said, "From a corporate perspective, the cow wasn't serious enough."
For the first time since 1994, the Dairy Farmers of Canada are updating their logo. The friendly, jumping cartoon cow who has adorned our milk and butter for the past twenty-two years is being put out to pasture. Because, as Ms. Cruz elaborated, "She was cute, she was likeable, but she wasn't professional enough."
Next month, you'll notice the new, more professional, less likeable logo. It's blue, and there's a realistic cow silhouette on it. Or, to describe it in a lot more marketing-related words, here's the narration from a video about the rebranding.

SOUNDCLIP

Introducing our new logo. The standing cow was inspired by the simple, natural purity of milk. The cow stands proudly, forward-looking, bearing our Canadian leaf prominently. The logo also represents the farming community, their pride and commitment to the animals they raise and care for, and the natural healthy products they provide Canadians. The symbol acts as a mark of origin and wholesomeness. The bright blue, which is slightly lighter than our current one, is optimistic and speaks to freshness.

KG: Well the light blue cow will look nice on dairy products. I'm not sure it's optimistic though. If people wanted their milk to seem optimistic , they… well they could have made the logo a glass half full of… I don’t know… some kind of liquid. I know I know. There's no use crying over rebranded milk. I guess I'll just miss that cute, likable, energetic cow. I'll get used to the forward-looking, serious cow. But it's hard when an uttered one bites the dust.

Part 3: Apartheid reserve system, ruby sea dragon

Mexico Shooting

KAREN GORDON: The nightclub was packed, and the music was pounding. So, at first, it was hard to know whether the loud bangs that erupted around 2:30 Monday morning were fireworks – or something else.
In the end, it was a barrage of gunshots that killed five at the club, and injured 15 others. Two of those killed were Canadians, including a Hamilton-based security guard who'd been hired for the night.
The club was celebrating the final night of an electronic music festival, put together by Canadian organizers. William Om travelled to the festival from Montreal, and had just arrived at the Blue Parrot when the shots rang out. He spoke to the CBC News Network earlier today.

SOUNDCLIP

WILLIAM OM: First thing we did was like, hey let's go out and we decided to go out to Blue Parrot. When we got there it was super vibe, super good music, you know. And then randomly like 2 a.m. or something like that, I just heard a gunshot. I wasn't even sure if it was a gunshot. I was still standing up when my friends pulled me down. He was like “Hey, it’s a real gun shot. Like lay down.” And when I lay down that's when I realized that it was really some serious gunshots. When I laid down actually I had the reflex of like pulling out my cell phone and it was recording on Snapchat. And Snapchat, you know, the videos last 10 seconds. And this morning when I woke up, I was looking at a video again and within 10 seconds we were talking about like maybe eight to ten gunshots.
It was kind of crazy. People were running away all over the place, they were crying. Because the shooting happened at the entrance of the nightclub. And we were located at the back at the booth so that’s where we were standing. And behind us there was… there was a fence that was separating the nightclub and the ocean water because right behind us was like the ocean and people were all running towards that gate toward the fence and just jumping over and it was kind of crazy because you know people were stepping on each other. I even got my hand stepped on, someone knocked me with their knee behind my head. And once we got over the fence, that's where we just started running, you know, for our lives. That's what we were thinking about. There was nothing else we can do. You know it's very sad that that happened because I have friends that come every year to that festival and it never happened, something like this. And this year people died. It's just sad.
Today, we all stayed at the apartment. We’re not even going downtown. We're actually hesitating. You know we have to go eat, grab some food and stuff like that but the restaurants and all downtown. So honestly it's hard. It's hard to manage right now.

KG: That was William Om speaking on the CBC News Network earlier today. He was at the BPM Electronic Music Festival early this morning in Mexico when a gunman entered and began to shoot. Five people were killed including two Canadians.

[Music]

Apartheid reserve system

Guest: Jean-Claude Therrien-Pinette

KG: When Bernard Lefrancois used the word "apartheid" in a recent report, he wasn't talking about South Africa. The Quebec coroner was making a bold statement about Canada's Aboriginal reserve system.
In a report released this past weekend, Mr. Lefrancois argued that an "ancient apartheid system" contributed to a string of 2015 suicides in a remote Quebec Innu community. That year, five people in Uashat-Maliotenam – population 4-thousand – took their own lives. In his report, Mr. Lefrancois also argues that each suicide was avoidable.
Jean-Claude Therrien-Pinette is a political adviser to the local band council in Uashat-Maliotenam. That's where we reached him.

HELEN MANN: Mr. Therrien-Pinette, why do you think that coroner Bernard Lefrancois went so far as to use the word “apartheid” in his report about the suicides in your community?

JEAN-CLAUDE THERRIEN-PINETTE: I think that the use of the name “apartheid” because that is a reflection to the definition of what is apartheid. Apartheid is a system that separates people, that put apart people, were there’s us and them. And I think that our community and mainly all the community in Canada, First Nation community, were put apart in a different system. I know that the people are doing a link with what happened in South Africa. But I think that’s whats really attached to the definition of what is apartheid.

HM: But in South Africa, this was a codified system of segregation and discrimination. Do you think it is that bad in this country?

JTP: I think it was. I think that when they implemented the Indian Act, they went very far too. I think that things have changed but the trauma and all the impacts of what happened in the past are still there today. So we need to work on those trauma to go to a more around the wellness of our people.

HM: The coroner's report look specifically at these suicide deaths of five people in your community. Four women, one man, that happened back in 2015. Can you tell us how people there reacted when this happened?

JTP: You know, every time that something like this happen in the community and I think that is the same thing everywhere, the pain is very deep. Myself, I was directly impacted by a 20 suicide in my family, my friends, my network. And you know, it's hard for the people, it's hard for the parents, it's hard for the relatives. It's hard for all the community, because you know, moreover, the individual pain, there's a big collective pain that we have and we share. Each time it’s a very painful process and the healing is very, very, very difficult.

HM: What factors do you think contributed to the deaths of these people that made them so desperate? Was it was it personal issues or are we also talking about larger problems within the community related to its location and what's available to the people who live there?

JTP: You know factors are multiple. And I think that the two perspectives there that you are proposing, we need to look at both of them. I think that the report during the introduction, is talking about the individual. And after that he is doing a global analysis, talking about the reserve, the resources, the alcohol and drugs, the unemployment, education. And you know all this area are part of the factors that make us what we are today.

HM: With regard to the issue of alcohol and drugs, Mr. Lefrancois, the coroner, says that in this particular case, in the case that these five deaths, drugs and alcohol were a factor. What kind of substance abuse do you see in your community and what's around to help them?

JTP: Right now we have alcohol for sure. We have marijuana, cocaine. But moreover we have designer drugs. So I'm talking about amphetamine and methamphetamines. So here on the market they're calling that “speed.” It’s a low-cost drug. And that gave the big damage to the brain, to the spirit, to the body. We need to have the right resources to address those issues because all these specialized services that are available in the region are mainly available in Montreal to do detox and psychiatric treatment and withdrawal. We are far from the right services for the kind of drug and alcohol abuse that we have in the area.

HM: Right and Montreal is what 900 kilometers away.

JTP: Yes that's it.

HM: What about in terms of mental health supports and the languages that they're available in?

JTP: There is a problem of accessing to those services in our own language. The same thing for detox. All the main resources for to address mental health issue are available in the urban area like Quebec or Montreal. We have problem to recruit specialized resources because people prefer probably to work in Montreal or in Quebec than to come here in a remote community like Uashat-Maliotenam.

HM: Looking at the recommendations in the report from the coroner, how confident are you that it might make a difference to the people who live in Uashat-Maliotenam.

JTP: I think that the mandate of the coroner was very clear to look around the five suicides. But I think that if we want to stop managing crisis inside the community, we need to work in terms of prevention. We need to prevent those situations to appear in the community. So we need to work in terms of prevention, and I think that we will reduce the crisis, we'll have more exhaustive employee that are always working into crisis situation. And you know, we can do prevention for drug and alcohol abuse but I think for me, to implement cultural program, to work on education, to work on housing, economic development, for me, those are the pillar of the wellness of the community. I know that if people are proud, know their history and where they are from, if they are respected, they have a good education they have good jobs. The crisis that we're having right now will decrease for sure.

HM: Mr. Therrien-Pinette, thank you for talking to us.

JTP: It was a pleasure.

HM: All right, bye.

JTP: Bye bye.

KG: Jean-Claude Therrien-Pinette is a political adviser to the local band council in Uashat-Maliotenam in Quebec and that is where we reached him.

[Music]

Bikers for Trump

KG: For President-elect Donald Trump, the pledge to build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border was the cornerstone of his successful Presidential bid. Now, with just days before his inauguration, another wall gaining attention in Washington D.C. And we know what this one will be made of. Chris Cox is the founder of a group called Bikers for Trump. And on Fox News, Mr. Cox, and other members of the group, pledged that, this coming Friday, they will provide a wall by becoming a wall. Here's Chris Cox on Fox and Friends.

SOUNDCLIP

CHRIS COX: Well, bikers for Trump started as a result of the outspoken nature of Donald Trump and the bikers’ frustration with the direction this country was going. So we were laughed at first. We had our first rally in Virginia Beach, Virginia and we had about a 100 guys show up. And since then we've grown to about 200,000 strong. We're a force to be dealt with, we're a political phenomenon. We are in no way, shape, or form vigilantes. We will have a presence during the presidential inauguration. We have full confidence in the Metropolitan Police Department, the Park Police and the Capitol Police. We believe they've learned from mistakes that were made in Chicago and Arizona and we have the utmost confidence in them. But in the event that we are needed, we certainly will form my a wall of meat.

FOX INTERVIEWER: What does that mean? What does that mean a wall of meat?

CC: Well we'll be shoulder to shoulder with our brothers and we'll be toe to toe with anyone that is going to break through any police barriers, that's going to be assaulting women, spitting on them, throwing things at them. And we are anticipating a peaceful transition of power. We have utmost support with the police. We are here to support Donald Trump. We have guys coming in right now driving across Texas, Arizona, guys left San Diego two days ago. Pennsylvania has bus loads coming in, Ohio, New York, you name it, we got bikers coming in town.

KG: That was Bikers for Trump founder Chris Cox on Fox and Friends explaining his group's pledge to form a “wall of meat” on President-Elect Trump's inauguration.

[Music]

Zipper merge

KG: Jeff Kasbrick no longer bows his head in shame. Lean on your horn. Shoot him a dirty look. The vice president of the Alberta Motor Association won't be fazed. He'll still cruise by you, throw on his blinker at the last minute, and cut in at the front of the traffic lineup, guilt-free.
It's called the "zipper merge". And last week, Mr. Kasbrick told us about the science behind the bold maneuver – and why there'd be less gridlock if more drivers used it.
Then, you signalled your own feelings on our Talkback line.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: Beep]

Hi there. It’s Dan Marks from Vancouver B.C.. Thank you so much for doing the bit on the zipper merging. My favorite street sign I've ever seen in my whole life is when you come off the ferry from Rupert and there's a massive sign that says merge like a zipper. I loved it because I drive professionally in a postal truck in Richmond B.C. for years and years and it drives me crazy. Nobody knows how to merge.

[Sound: Beep]

Hi there. It's Gabriella Oh calling from Calgary. A way long time ago in Ontario, Ottawa to be exact, I took formal driving lessons to get my driver's license and that's what I learned in my lessons, that that was the correct and efficient way to merge. So I've been doing it all along. And yeah, I guess people get upset or whatever but that's the way I learned how to drive. I think if all of us took formal driving lessons, things on the road might be I don't know maybe behaviorally more pleasant for all of us.

[Sound: Beep]

Hello my name is Brian Doughty. I'm from Smithville, South-Grimsby, Ontario. We had an expert on about merging in traffic and I had an epiphany. I shouted it at the radio because that’s been my dream my whole life. I drove a truck for 20 years and practiced it because it made sense. So to have him actually state that was fantastic. So everybody listening, please remember the zipper merge. We all just one at a time merge merge merge from the right. We keep up our speed. Stay off your brakes. There's actually three positions for your right foot: it’s gas on the right, brake on the left. And guess what? It's nothing in the middle. You can coast. Don't put your foot on the brake and you know what, the 401 corridors, north south east west, will open up, and we’ll all move on to Nirvana and we'll be happy when we wave at each other and giving high fives. So that was a fantastic thing to hear. Hopefully people listen to this and have a good day. Bye.

KG: Thank you for those calls. If you missed our interview with "zipper merge" expert Jeff Kasbrick, you'll find it at cbc.ca/aih. And to comment on anything you hear on the program, find us on Twitter and Facebook, both @cbcasithappens, all one word. Give us a call at 416-205-5687. And our email is aih@cbc.ca.

[Music]

Ruby sea dragon

Guest: Josefin Stiller

KG: Two pieces of good news. First, it turns out mythical sea creatures really do exist. Second, the one we're talking about is beautiful and smallish creature, rather than, say, a vengeful Kraken as in “Release the Kraken.”
Last year, researchers were taking a second look at DNA from a seahorse cousin known as a sea dragon. And they discovered that a mislabelled sample was actually a whole new species , a ruby sea dragon.
Since then, marine biology student Josefin Stiller has been on a quest to find one in the wild for the first time. Now, she's succeeded. We reached her in San Diego.

HM: Ms. Stiller, you have put up an astonishing video of the Sea Dragon you discovered. Could you please describe it for us?

JOSEFIN STILLER: So the video shows the habitat of this species which is very different from where we find the other two species of sea dragons. So you see a beautiful sponge garden with some other critters around. And then you see a sea dragon floating around and we observed its behavior. We saw how it was feeding, and we saw that it didn't have any appendages as opposed to the other two sea dragon species.

HM: For those who aren't familiar with sea dragons at all, explain to us you know what they look like generally.

JS: OK, so sea dragons are relatives of seahorses. They have the same elongates snout and similar body shape, but in difference to seahorses, the two species of dragons that we knew before have these beautiful appendages that camouflage them in their habitats. The new species of sea dragon is quite different because it doesn't have the appendages but it has a beautiful red coloration that allows it to basically blend in and disappear completely in its environment where it's relatively dark and the red color will make it appear black.

HM: How did you feel when you first saw this ruby sea dragon. Was it almost like seeing a mythical creature?

JS: It was definitely one of the most amazing moments in my life. For almost two years, I had imagined what the sea dragon would do down there, deep in the ocean, how it behaved, and then all of a sudden there it was. And I think all of us were not very optimistic that we would find it with our dive robot. And so it was just like seeing an old relative that you’ve never met before.

HM: Now you were the one who discovered the samples that actually led to this new species being identified. I gather they'd been sitting around for a while. What did take so long to realize how unique they were?

JS: It was basically just some coincidences leading up to it. So the initial sample was collected into 2007 on a cruise, and the researchers and the cruise were processing lots of samples. They took a quick little photo and then just accessioned the fish into the museum. And while the color is really obvious, the color fades as soon as you preserve the fish. So after it was preserved, it wasn't quite as easy to see how different it really was from the other two species. We sequenced its DNA and we thought it was a common sea dragon. And the museum had sent us that sample as being a common sea dragon. But then when we looked at the DNA, it was very obvious that it was genetically entirely distinct from the other two species.

HM: But you felt you needed to see a live one, because these were just dead samples.

JS: Yes. So we had all of these questions. First of all we, we didn't know if it had the appendages. I always thought the appendages were broken off because all of the specimens we had where either washed up on beaches or they were caught in nets. So I always assumed that the appendages would be there in the ruby sea dragon and were just broken off, and we were just very curious what a sea dragon is doing at that great depth.

HM: And you got to see as you mentioned, you got to see it actually feeding.

JS: Yes we saw it feeding. They basically use their long snouts as straws to suck on their prey which are little crustaceans that sit in the water columns. And so they're really quite active and amazing predators.

HM: And I read, it has something… it has a very muscular neck compared to the other sea dragons?

JS: Yes. So this was something that we initially noticed. Behind the head you have a bulgy area. We noticed that it was very big compared to the other two species. And now that we've seen it in the wild and we've seen how much turbulence there really was down there, and how much it had to swim to orient itself in the current, it does make sense that it had more muscles in the pectoral area.

HM: I saw a tweet from J.K. Rowling, the Harry Potter author, saying that she honestly doesn't know why she even bothers inventing fantastic beasts. You've obviously captured people's imaginations with this find.

JS: Yes. It's… I mean it's such a beautiful animal and they are just adorable with that long snouts. They live in these remote areas in Australia and they really they spark your imagination and then they have this cool name they're called sea dragons and everything about them is just a little mythical and then all of a sudden we have a third species that no one knew about.

HM: Did you get to name this new species?

JS: Yeah, in 2015 we named it and we named it after the person who was funding our research. And her name is Dewey White. And so we named this species is the scientific name is Phyllopteryx dewysea, based on her nickname and then the sea is then for ocean.

HM: Right. Sounds very pretty actually. What's next in your research?

JS: So my main focus is actually studying the other two species and we're really interested in genetic patterns in Australia and how we can use information like that to better protect them in the wild. In terms of the Ruby Sea Dragon research. We are really happy to have these observations now. I think the next step is to get some conservation measures for the species in place and then eventually gather more information about its biology. We still really don't know anything about the species. We don't know anything about how many are out there in Australia.

HM: Lots to learn yet. Thank you so much for telling us about your research. It's an amazing find.

JS: Thanks so much for your interest.

HM: Okay bye.

JS: Bye bye.

KG: Josephine Stiller is a marine biology student at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography. We reached her in San Diego.

[Music]

From Our Archives: Car births

KG: When you're getting your birth plan together, in a car at the side of the road is not a popular choice of venue for the miraculous event. But a pair of midwives in Sweden think people should be preparing for just that.
They're running a course to teach parents what to do if a car birth is the only option. It's offering practical advice, too – because it follows the news that the maternity ward in the town of Sollefteå will close at the end of the month.
As one of the course leaders told The Local, "If you think that it will be something between 120 and 200 kilometres to the nearest maternity ward, and it's winter, it's dark, there's a bad mobile signal, anything can happen on the way."
Anything can happen where births in cars are concerned, as we've learned many times on this program. For example: in the sixties, policeman Robert McLaughlin delivered a baby in the back of a car. That baby was Adam Croom. And the two would reunite, two decades later, when Mr. Croom himself became a policeman.
From our archives, here's former As it Happens host Michael Enright speaking with both men back in January of 1988. It starts with Lieutenant McLaughlin describing the night he delivered the baby.

SOUNDCLIP

ROBERT MCLAUGHLIN: I was assigned to a car that day, and it was about 4:00 in the morning. We were dispatched to a location to handle a maternity case. Upon arrival there, I met Adam’s mother and she was in labor and that the baby was going to be coming very shortly. I said OK. There was no ambulances available so we put her into the radio car and I got in the backseat with her, and we started to head up to one of the local hospitals, Queens General Hospital. We got as far as 106th Street and Jamaica Avenue, about a mile away from Adam’s house when the mother said, “Well, the baby’s coming.” So we stopped the car, and I assisted the mother in delivering the baby.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: Now had you done this before?

RM: No, no. Not to that extent. No.

ME: But this is something they teach at the Academy. What to do in case.

RM: Oh yeah. They teach you. There’s really not much that you can do you. You just basically just catch the baby and hang on till doctors can get there.

ME: So then you got to the hospital.

RM: We got to the hospital.

ME: There was four of you in the car instead of three.

RM: There were four of us at that time, right. The nurses and doctors took over and then we waited for the father to arrive.

ME: Now did you stay in touch with Adam's mom over the years or? No not at all. Once we left the hospital that night, it just became another job that I handled and one that stayed with me for whatever reason. I always remembered the name and the incident.

RM: OK. Now Adam, we've got you in the picture so to speak. How… did you know about the circumstances of your birth?

ADAM CROOM: I found out about third grade.

ME: How did you… what did your mom tell you?

AC: She just told me I was born in a squad car, and the officer who delivered me was… his first name was Robert.

ME: And was… that was it?

AC: Yes that was it.

ME: Now did you tell all your friends you were born in a police car?

AC: Yeah, but they didn’t really believe me.

ME: They didn’t eh? They do now.

AC: They do now.

ME: So you went all through the teen years and stuff and you knew you were born a police car.

AC: Yeah.

ME: What made you decide to become a cop? Did this having to do with it?

AC: You could say. I always wanted to be one, when I was smaller.

ME: Did you think that… well I was born in a police car. Maybe… maybe God meant me to be a policeman.

AC: Yes it crossed my mind.

ME: Now all you knew about Lieutenant McLaughlin was that his first name Robert.

AC: Yes sir.

ME: OK let's move it… let's fast forward ahead. We were up to this week now. How did you happen to get together? Let's go back to Lieutenant McLaughlin. What happened this week?

RM: Well they were assigned here from the Police Academy. They graduated the Police Academy Tuesday. Wednesday I had 46 of them assigned to me. They showed up. We give an orientation lecture. At the time, the name didn't register. I just used his last name, and then later, on one of the breaks, I was reviewing the roster, where I hide his whole name.

ME: Right.

RM: And when I sort of name Adam Croom, I [unintelligible] I just didn’t believe that it could be him. When I went out spoke to him and he told me that his mother had told him he was born in a police car. Then I knew it definitely was him. And I blurted out in front of all of his friends that I was the one that delivered him. It's been hectic ever since that day.

KG: From our archives, that was former As It Happens. Host Michael Enright speaking with Lieutenant Robert McLaughlin and Adam Croom in January of 1988

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Jan 16, 2017 episode transcript

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