Manitoba

Shindico's side of Winnipeg fire hall deal heard in expropriation hearing

Representatives from the City of Winnipeg and property developer Shindico were at the convention centre Tuesday for the second and final day of a hearing that will determine how to proceed with the expropriation of land on Taylor Avenue.

'We knew we had the perfect parcel of land,' says Shindico development manager

Shindico's side of Winnipeg fire hall deal heard in expropriation hearing

10 years ago
Duration 1:55
Representatives from the City of Winnipeg and property developer Shindico were at the convention centre Tuesday for the second and final day of a hearing that will determine how to proceed with the expropriation of land on Taylor Avenue.

Representatives from the City of Winnipeg and property developer Shindico were at the convention centre Tuesday for the second and final day of a hearing that will determine how to proceed with the expropriation of land on Taylor Avenue.

The city built a fire hall at 1780 Taylor Ave. on land it acquired, but never paid for, from Shindico in a controversial land swap deal in 2012.

The city's 2013 audit of the transaction found a number of proper practices and procedures weren't followed.

Expropriation hearing: Day 2

Bob Downs, development manager at Shindico, said that while the developer has been paid for the bricks and mortar of the fire hall build, it has continued to pay property taxes for the land without being reimbursed by the city.

Downs described himself as a "point person" on fire hall projects for the company Tuesday.
Bob Downs, Shindico's development manager, served as a witness at Tuesday's expropriation hearing. (Sean Kavanagh/CBC)
Denise Pambrun, the lawyer representing the city, questioned Shindico's Bob Downs Tuesday afternoon. (Sean Kavanagh/CBC)

He provided a detailed history of Shindico's fire hall development programs.

Downs told the hearing Shindico isn't in the business of selling land. It buys, builds and leases out properties. But the city wanted to own the Taylor Avenue fire hall Shindico was building for the city.

"We knew we had the perfect parcel of land," said Downs, adding, "so we stayed in."

Downs said after the city decided it wanted to own the fire hall property, Shindico still preferred to do an exchange.

Initially the transaction was meant to be a three-for-one land swap between Shindico and the city. The deal spoiled in 2012 after CBC News revealed one of the properties in the deal was available for lease on Shindico's website, before it got the necessary city approvals.

Denise Pambrun, the lawyer representing the city, questioned Downs and produced a document from mid-2010 disclosing a purchase price for the Taylor Avenue land of $900,000 plus subdivision costs.

One of the reasons discussions between the city and Shindico have reached a stalemate comes down to a disagreement over what land should be included in the deal.
Shindico says it will only sell the Taylor Avenue land to the city if the city is willing to take both section 'A' and 'B' as part of the deal. (Jacques Marcoux/CBC)

Pambrun suggested there was no benefit to the city to expropriate a tiny triangle of land next to Taylor Avenue fire hall that Shindico insists the city purchase as part of the deal.

While she sympathized with the developer over their concerns of wanting the city to take both pieces of land in the deal, Pambrum said ultimately Shindico knew all along what piece of property the city desired.

Monday hearing

The conspicuous absence of two major players in the land swap deal was felt at Monday's hearing.

Neither the city's former Fire Paramedic chief Reid Douglas nor the former property and planning director Barry Thorgrimson were present Monday.

Reid was fired in September of 2013; Thorgrimson retired last Friday.

Both men signed a letter of intent in 2012 green-lighting the deal. 

Several months after that letter was signed, Thorgrimson was quoted saying he had been "left out of this whole process" and knew almost nothing about the land swap deal.

"This is a property matter that went through a different standing committee, with a different department. So I'm kind of left out of this whole process as well," he told CBC in August of 2012.

Shindico's lawyer, Antoine Hacault, drew attention to the letter Monday afternoon during the proceedings.
Barry Thorgrimson and Reid Douglas signed this letter of intent in 2012 green-lighting the land swap. (Sean Kavanagh/CBC)

"How would it come to be that the director of [property, planning and development] would come to the conclusion that this is a document he should sign?" asked Hacault on Monday.

Shindico has rejected the terms of the land expropriation proposed by the city, which necessitated the hearing.

Michael Green, an adjudicator appointed by the province, will be reviewing the developer's concerns; City Council will then vote on his recommendations.

If the Taylor Avenue land is to be expropriated, the province's Land Value Appraisal Commission would then work out a price for the land in a separate hearing.