Singer and rapper pHoenix Pagliacci discusses separating art from the artist
She joined The Block's host Angeline Tetteh-Wayoe to talk about her new album, Dichotomy
Over the years, singer, rapper and activist pHoenix Pagliacci has blurred the lines of R&B and hip-hop, crafting powerful songs about justice as a solo artist and as part of groups including TRP.P and the Sorority.
Her newest album, Dichotomy, explores the current political climate as well as Pagliacci's personal journey over the last several years. It's her first solo project in eight years, and in that time she's grown even more into herself, and by extension, her artistry.
Pagliacci joined The Block's Angeline Tetteh-Wayoe to talk about the new project as well as her career beginnings.
The full conversation is above and you can read an excerpt below.
So, the reason that you're here is, you have this new album called Dichotomy, which means — if you're going to get into definitions here — the contrast between two things. So, what are the two things that you are referring to with that title choice?
Well, I think that the two things would be the artistry and the artist. A lot of people would say that you can't separate the two. That is a debate that is as old as time.
And your view is?
My view is continuously changing.
Good. That means you're growing and learning.
And I am a human being, and some days it makes sense that the two are different. And some days it makes absolutely no sense to separate the two.
What days does it make sense to separate the two?
I think the days that it makes sense to separate the two are the days when someone has just proven themselves to be completely devoid of the human being element to the artist, [so] that the art cannot beautify the artist. And it just fails to provide the necessities that art is supposed to provide for society.
Mmm. That's why.
Or something like that. I don't know.
It's like you've thought about this or something.
That's been on my mind for a bit.
You have, you know, many facets yourself, and I don't know if you think of them as opposing dichotomies. Is that possible, to have dichotomies?
Yes.
Does that mean multiples of different versions?
I would think so.
Okay. All right, we're just getting into definitions here. I mean, you are a singer. You are a rapper. But then there's all these — you were a part of more than one, you know, project. You are a solo artist, and you are also part of a group called TRP.P.
Yeah.
So, I guess we should talk about those individual pieces. Maybe you can talk about when singing started, because I'm thinking probably it started with singing because that's usually how it goes.
Yeah, tale as old as time. So, I started out singing, I was in a group with my cousins as a kid.
What was it called?
Caribbean Gems.
I love it. Caribbean Gems.
Yeah. You know, being of West Indian heritage, [from] Jamaica, to be specific, we were big on folk songs and my grandma actually sewed our costumes. We performed in the marketplace [in] traditional plaid, red and white checkered skirts. The guys had head dresses, and it was very wholesome. We learned a lot about our culture and got to sing, you know, these songs and stories of our ancestors and cousins and uncles.
That's amazing.
Yeah.
And how old were you when Caribbean Gems [existed]?
I was probably about six when that started.
Oh, wow. So you've been doing this for a minute?
Yes.
Which now explains [why] every time I see you perform, [you have] a certain level of comfort and ease on the stage.
Oh, absolutely. And it helped that I went to an art school. So, you know, art was literally second nature.
When did rap, when did hip-hop come for you and take you out of Jamaican folk music?
Oh my gosh, that would be in university. I went to Toronto Metropolitan University, formerly known as Ryerson. And there was a student group there called the Urban Hip-Hop Union.
I love it. Student groups are the best.
They are. Honestly, advocating for student groups on campus, you learn so much. That's not just academia. You learn about your fellow [societies] and different cultures. And I literally learned about hip-hop in school in a non-academic setting, and that introduction was wild to me because I realized I love poetry, I love writing songs. And what better way to say more things than to rap? And so I started by doing that.
This interview has been edited for clarity and length. To hear the full interview, listen to The Block on CBC Music.