The Current Transcript for January 15, 2016

Host: Lara Rae

IN THIS EPISODE

Prologue:

[Music:Theme]

SOUNDCLIP

[peppy music]

Voice 1: I have to tell him

Voice 2: Yes.

Voice 1: He’s crazy!

Voice 3: What?

Voice 1: Dad is a woman

Voice 2: Of course I know that! You think I’m a dummy?

LR: And so begins the critically acclaimed series Transparent, about life with a dad who comes out as a trans woman. Whether the trans people in your life are in your family, at work, on the bus or just on T.V. There's a decent chance that you've still got some questions about what it all means and how it all works, what to call him or her or they. Well we've got your answers first up today. So listen up. We've even got to keep the conversation going later on Twitter so stay tuned for more on that as we aim to make things more transparent for everyone. Then someone who's been seeing through it all Since well before Twitter.

Paul Kassner: I said Just call me a social satirist and the MC got up there he said All right next comedian is Paul Krassner a sociopath. [laughter]

LR: Eight decades on the social satirist Paul Krassner is still calling it like he sees it and writing books. He was a co-founder of the Yippies and he remains an ambassador from the counter culture of yore. Paul Krassner is my guest in half an hour. Then.

SOUNDCLIP

ALEX ABRAMOVICH: So is heard time and time again from trans people that it really is a matter of life and death. It’s actually more expensive to not fund these procedures.

LR: Health care that matters to transgender people and why it too often remains too far out of reach. I'm Lara Ray. And this is the Friday edition of The Current.

Transgender Canadians Discuss acceptance in 2016

Guests: Meryn Cadell, Alex Abramovich, Ellen (pseudonym)

SOUNDCLIP

CAITLYN JENNER:[clapping]So for the people out there wondering what this is all about. Whether it's about courage or controversy or publicity. But I'll tell you what it's all about. It's about what happens from here. It's not just about one person. It's about all of us. Accepting one another. We're all different. That's not a bad thing.

LR: Wow what a difference or year or two can make. Thanks in part to high profile people such as Laverne Cox, Janet Mock and yes, Caitlyn Jenner. Transgender people are more visible in today's world than they've ever been before. But as Caitlyn Jenner alludes to there, there is still plenty of confusion and ignorance people wondering what it really means to be trans. Well, we're going to do our part to help answer some of those questions today with a panel of transgender people to talk about their experiences, misconceptions they'd like to see corrected and the questions they wish people would just stop asking. Meryn Cadell is a writer, educator and a friend of mine. Alex Abramovich is a post-doctoral research fellow at the Center for Addictions and Mental Health. And our third guest works in the fashion industry in Toronto and she's asked us to keep her name private so we'll call her Ella. They're all in Toronto, hello to you all. I want to talk to you about how things have changed and so let's start by putting it out there what are the things that people say or do most frequently that offends you, Meryn.

MERYN: I've had a fairly easy time but I would say it's mostly questions about the body the kinds of questions that no one would ever dream of asking anyone else. And Laverne Cox actually and Janet Mock handle this very well in an interview I think with Katie Couric. No one would dream of saying so what are your politics on you know, wildlife preservation and so are your vaginal lips large are not large, you know that kind of thing.

LR: Of course not that's just disrespectful.

MERYN CADELL: In fact the moment you say that you're transgender if you're talking about that they'll say very succinctly like so do you have one? Are you going to get one it's all about the having or the getting.

LR: Yeah I remember you know when I was still male and came out as gay and I had a transgender male partner and we were in the hospital and my partner was quite sick and the surgical resident says, so you are a couple, how does that work? And then started asking a whole bunch of inappropriate questions. What about you, Alex?

ALEX ABRAMOVICH: You know I have to definitely agree with Meryn. It's just the questions about the body that I get quite frequently. I'm bumping into an old colleague you know, in the hospital that I work at walking in the hall, haven't seen the colleague in a few years the first question is oh wow you look great. So have you had the surgery? And it's like first of all, what surgery? There are many different surgeries trans people can have.

LR: Yes, yes. We know that from Caitlyn Jenner.

ALEX ABRAMOVICH: Absolutely.

LR: Can never stop. [laughs]

ALEX ABRAMOVICH: But I know what they're asking when they ask if I’ve had the surgery.

LR: Yes. And they're asking about in the case of female and male to female. Some bottom surgery.

ALEX ABRAMOVICH: Absolutely

LR: What is your genital configuration.

ALEX ABRAMOVICH: Absolutely and so they think that it's OK to ask these questions about the body and then as well as I've had an extremely difficult time navigating the healthcare system as a trans person and so with doctors you know it's like at the minute they find out that I'm trans, they automatically start using female pronouns for me. Even though I present as male and I don't go by male pronouns.

LR: I'm kind of shocked at how I heard a duty nurse say I don't believe in the whole transgender thing. I don't believe in it [crosstalk LR and ALEX ABRAMOVICH]] or it's like yeah it's like I don't believe in cancer. How about you, Ella?

ELLA: I think I have to say definitely you know asking questions about the body so still saying oh my gosh like is that real? Like is your face real? Is your nose real? Are your cheeks real? Yes! They’re all real. I’ve had surgery on my face. A lot of questions definitely about with dating for example. Like oh my gosh, does that make me gay? Am I going to get like some crazy disease like you know like there's always this like weird perception that you know we are so different and we are so weird and it's scary to especially with dating I think. Like I was a post op trans woman dating is definitely something that is challenging and really difficult but I think every day definitely people are as shocked like oh my god really and they'll try to find something wrong. Either it's your voice or something.

LR: I know they're looking for clues

ELLA: Like manly or feminine, you know. I mean being something that's definitely prominent that makes you trans and that's like why? Just look at me.

LR: They try to find the old person in you.

ELLA: Exactly.

LR: You can see that look. It plays into kind of a stereotype that is past. That's the idea that we are defined as a particular gender by our gender or that legally or medically we don't become that person until we have this surgery but we are now in a place thankfully where our gender is something that we own and declare ourselves. This is I think one of the other reasons politically that uh--

ELLA: I completely agree with you with that. I mean a lot of people would say, Wow, you're a woman. It's like know before my surgery I was definitely a woman. And for me like my journey is not complete I would say is just it's starting in some ways and complete in some ways.

LR: Now Alex, you have had a different experience maybe than these two and but very similar to me where you can kind of came out twice, right? Once as a queer person and then later as a trans person. I did three years ago I came out as gay male and you know and then as a trans woman. How were those experiences different for you?

ALEX ABRAMOVICH: Yeah so I came out as a lesbian in my early twenties. And during that time I didn't think that it would be possible for me to even come out as trans, right. It wasn't something that really occurred to me and I don’t think I had enough knowledge so what felt right to me was to come out as a lesbian. I had an extremely challenging coming out experience during those years. And you know as a result it did lead me to the work that I do today which focuses on LGBTQ youth homelessness. I came out as trans during the second year of my Ph.D when I turned thirty and that was challenging in a whole different way. So coming out as a lesbian had its challenges and coming out as trans was a whole other, lots of other challenges that came along with that. And for me, what was most challenging was I was working as a professional in a hospital environment where you would think you know, where you think would be a professional environment I was working in a downtown busy Toronto hospital and I was working and I was completing my Ph.D at the University of Toronto. And so the trans phobia that I dealt with was very much sort of institutional in the workplace.

MERYN CADELL: In the nineties, because I had a certain amount of notoriety and people tend to, there was at the time, the Queer Nation idea of pushing people who were closeted quote unquote to come out. I faced a lot of, you know, you should come out already. I was lambasted in , a whole page , about what a liar I was.

LR: Oh my God

MERYN CADELL: I mean being so hurt about it because I was doing all that I could just say this is who I am. I didn't know yet the gender piece. So I was with men as I am now. Mostly with men. And yeah, there's just no other way to consider it and I faced a lot of--I was kind of one thing. An odd sort of satisfaction when I came out of trans and transitional sort of like, See I told you I was queer [laughter] than you know, going to became something I could more describe correctly finally.

LR: Yeah. No it's very true. How about you Ella?

ELLA: Sorry, what was the question?

LR: Just in terms of you know, your experience now as you know being identifying and being accepted. I would imagine almost exclusively as a woman, how has that been different than your previous experience?

ELLA: I think it's different in sense like when people again when women--I think there's different reactions so there's been positive and negative for sure, with the women I think. You know with friends it's either. Oh my gosh like thank you so much for telling me after so many years. I mean I’ve lived a life for seven, eight years when I'm just a normal girl let's say whatever that means. And people had no idea. And when I did finally, you know come out and tell people that you know I'm like I'm actually a trans woman, I'm just not a regular girl who just walks around because it’s in fashion. I’m actually different and I'm proud to be different now.

LR: That's wonderful. I mean you know I have to say on this and this is the radio I mean you know I'm very early in the stage I mean you know what I think it would be fair to say-- I mean first of all you’re extremely beautiful but I mean you know nobody would think that you actually trans gender.

ELLA: Well thank you. It just takes a lot of confidence, a lot of work a lot of effort to get here. And we were talking about the whole LGBT community earlier and I definitely have received some backlash there to. I have had a lot of people you know kind of say like oh you're just beautiful like you must be so easy for you. No, it wasn’t. I have gone through the same thing, the same challenges. I've worked hard to get where I am. I put myself through university. I was homeless before. I worked really hard to get where I am and it takes time, it takes effort. And it's also the people you know, around you that either build you or put you down. So yeah it's—

LR: Absolutely. You were saying you know as part of your studies to that suicide rates drop by about 93 percent when people have a good support network.

ALEX ABRAMOVICH: Absolutely and so we know that the rates. Trans Paul study which is an Ontario study that looked at trans people and the health of trans people and they found extremely high rates of suicide amongst transgender people in Ontario. But that the rates of suicide decreased by 93 percent with strong family support. So we know that that is critical.

LR: So I mean you could almost use the term ironically, then. A transgender person committing suicide is almost an assisted suicide. It's assisted by transphobia and rejection, right? The person themself doesn't want to necessarily end their life they just don't want to live the life that they're put forward.

ALEX ABRAMOVICH: Absolutely. That support is just so critical and something back to what Meryn was saying was that in terms of the lesbian community not accepting trans men, right? I know that when I when I came out I lost a lot of my lesbian friends because it was like you're you know, you're joining us. Yeah you're just too pretty. You'll never pass as a man.

[laughter]

LR: You know the one I got is kind of, it's almost humorous because you know as a male and Meryn, you know me, I was you know, I asserted myself you know I guess. You know there's that word that begins with a for you know how I behave sometimes [laughter] with my white male privilege. But you know, I’ll be standing and Shoppers Drug Mart for instance when I'm in the line and this would never happen when I was standing kind of man spreading and waiting to go up and man will just walk in front of me lik I'm not there and I'll say I was there first and I realize he literally didn't see me.

MERYN CADELL: Welcome to invisibility.

LR: Yeah yeah yeah and I want to be invisible in some ways in the sense of just looking like a normal woman but that invisibility of just not mattering you know, is something that you know and you learn very quickly.

MERYN CADELL: Can I say one thing?

LR: yes

MERYN CADELL: I was just thinking that something that Ella said I don't know I just would be instead here other people's opinion on it. When you talked to Ella about how beautiful she is which she is and also thinking back to the discussion about surgery. Trans people, amongst themselves once they know each other will talk about their surgeries and the extra complications, that sort of thing. And the same I think is true of how trans people use passing which is a word I loathe but that idea of how one is doing how one is looking. But the reason I raise it is because I think it's true. Correct me if you feel otherwise that generally speaking it's not something that we're talking sort of about what people say that bothers other people. It's kind of not cool for someone who isn't a dear friend and possibly only friend is trans to say oh you're looking great, you would really pass but your hair is too long you stick your earrings or whatever that kind of advice is completely unsolicited.

ELLA: and I completely agree with that it's like you know, maybe not that pink hair today [laughter]. It's not fair to the person because you know what sometimes you know when you're just transitioning I mean even me like when I was when I first started when I was I think like fourteen or something when I fully transitioned, I didn't look the part, I looked probably crazy. But it's not really fair for some to say like oh I like you should do this that this I mean there's different ways of giving advice but to be like yeah, maybe you know you don't you don't fit right in let's become the cookie cutter woman I don't need anybody is different in how they present themselves how they want to be their own trans.

LR: Now with all the wonderful things that are going on you know transparent to show and you know, Orange Is The New Black and Caitlyn Jenner and so on. You know I say all the time we were all the rage right there was this collector's magazine that I saw you know with all these transgender people in it and I couldn't believe this world would exist when I was young so we must celebrate that. But because we're now so public and we’re becoming--you know I'm a comic so I'm very hyper aware of this we've become you know the butt sometimes, or just the reference point for jokes. And here's one very recently in this is Ricky Gervais so let's take a listen.

SOUNDCLIP

Ricky Gervais: But as I say I'm going to be nice tonight. I've changed. Not as much as Bruce Jenner. Obviously. Now Caitlyn Jenner, of course. What a year she’s had. She became a role model for trans people everywhere showing great bravery in breaking down barriers and destroying stereotypes. She didn’t do a lot for women drivers. But you can't have everything.

LR: Thank you so there you go and there's two things to observe. One is that he made the joke and two that the joke worked quite well, right? So it was accepted right by the dominant culture so I mean we deal with this all the time and so did you guys have anything to say?

ALEX ABRAMOVICH: I guess my first reaction is just that I think that there are certain you know, thoughts and comments I should be left in your mind that you don't need to share. Like just like we're talking about today certain questions. And I think that it's time that people just come to understand you know what it what is appropriate to ask him what is inappropriate to ask and I think it's good sort of think before you ask a trans person or make a comment. Would I say this to a trans gender person.

ELLA: Exactly.

LR: Meryn?

MERYN CADELL: Yeah I have. I mean. Ricky Gervais certainly is an equal opportunity and absolutely it's hilarious isn't it. They brought him back after a few years because we love his generous fun loving spirit so it was they literally said never again he will never again host the show again so that's funny. Yeah I guess I mean it's just that already I think those two words, Caitlyn Jenner, have already become in the comedians world, just that it's already past.

LR: Absolutely. It's old news. I have to say I mean compared to years ago I mean, I always begin as a comic an obviously I have to have some latitude as a comic you know. I mean and he’s a shock comic so he's doing what he's supposed to do as a job right. But I mean it is important to kind of realize that you know, we can't, you know, you can't spend your whole day worrying about what jokes people are making and so on but it's certainly I mean less transphobic than they used to be. I mean even Ellen made a terrible joke a few years ago you know on one of those award shows about Liza Minelli looking like a transgender woman you know which is kind of basically saying she looks like a man. And so you know we're we were definitely moving forward you know and then I always begin with the idea I mean do we honestly think that Ricky Gervais as a human being as a transphobic person? I don't think so.

ELLA: You know I think we do have to be careful with the jokes. I think as time progresses I mean we can obviously you know, do those kind of things more often specially media but I think because the way it's portrayed in media it tends to be really bad like the word trannies is used a lot. Yeah it makes me shiver. [laughter]

LR: I know. It’s gross. But often you know, and this is what the media does. It’s simplified, too. And this is why where we can come in to share our stories and stuff and help educate people in kind of a gentle way. Now we started this conversation asking about things that are offensive. I hate being mis-gendered, for example. Just don't say and think you know. But I'd like to know some of the positive things people have said to you since you've transitioned. I'll start, which is people have emailed me and said you know when you did this big thing I realized there was something in my life that I wanted to do that for some, wasn’t quite as big change my job or leave my husband or whatever it might be and it gave me the courage and to say you know maybe at 52, I can do something. You know, there’s a next chapter for me. You know, they used to say there's no second acts in American lives but I think that you know I think there are and this is definitely a second act for me. What about you, Meryn?

MERYN CADELL: Something said early on to me by my mother's friend. You know my mother obviously went through some difficulties. All parents do I think. Just something even just a just trying to reimagine someone that they've known since literally since they were born. But a friend from my mother said, you make a wonderful man, Meryn. Which is a lovely comment and then my sister quite a while later when she said you know, it's a couple years later I mean she said, I was thinking about you and I realized Meryn has always been a middle aged gay man so it was perfect.

LR: Alex.

ALEX ABRAMOVICH: So I've worked with young and trans people for a long time now I who are experiencing homelessness and so actually during one of the interviews a young trans woman said to me, your trans, aren't you? Well what do you do when people stare at you on the subway? And you know she was really struggling. And I had never come out as trans until that moment or I thought OK well here's an opportunity for me to maybe be the role model that I never had growing up.

LR: Good for you.

ALEX ABRAMOVICH: I never had that when I was in academia. And so that prompted me to come out as trans and so I think the greatest thing has been to be able to be a mentor and just a role model for younger people.

LR: And Ella.

ELLA: I didn't have trans support or really anybody to look up to when I was young and I kind of I guess did it on my own and for me, like I really want to know I think, I'm getting older is really be a role model and be a voice to people who don't have one or who can’t have one.

LR: That's great and you know I learned something so I hope the listeners did too and good luck and love to you all.

ALL: Thank you. Thank you thank you so much.

LR: Meryn Cadell is a writer and educator and is currently working on a book about gender and genealogy. Alex Abramovich is a post-doctoral research fellow at the Center for Addiction and Mental Health and our third guest works in the fashion industry in Toronto. She asked us to keep her name private. And we're going to keep this conversation going on Twitter. If you have more questions for me about being trans about transitioning or whatever. You can find me on The Current on Twitter today. Starting at noon Eastern nine A.M. Pacific. Send me your questions using the hash tag Ask Lara. I'll keep the conversation going from the current Twitter handle. That's cbc.ca/the current. Of course I'm not a doctor and I don't speak for all trans people but if you want to keep the conversation going then I'll see you on Twitter today.

Social-satirist Paul Krassner blurs absurdity with humour

Guest: Paul Krassner

LR: Flashbacks from an acid wit.

SOUNDCLIP

Voice 1: [reading] Which deodorant does Lyndon Johnson use? [stops reading]

Now, what does that mean? What is that? Paul Krassner, what is that?

[reading] Which deodorant is Lyndon Johnson use? [stops reading] That's your front page head.

[audience laughter]

Voice 2: Yes. Do you want to know which one? By brand name?

Voice 1: Now, I want to know what is that? What is the reason for that?

Voice 2: Well, I think that the president of United States is at such a height that people—

Voice 1: Such a what?

Voice 2: A height.

Voice 1: Height? I see.

Voice 2: He's put on such a pedestal that people have to realize that he is only a human being and does use a deodorant.

[audience laughter]

Voice 2: Like you and me.

LR: From way back in 1967, that was Paul Krassner being grilled about an article that appeared in a satirical magazine, The Realist. And for more than half a century now Paul Krassner, a co-founder with Abbie Hoffman of the Youth International Party or Yippies, has been using humour to raise political awareness about the issues he finds important. He's the author of numerous books including one whose title really says it all about Paul Krassner, Confessions of a Raving Unconfined Nut: Misadventures in the Counterculture. We've reached Paul Krassner in Palm Springs, California. Hello.

PAUL KRASSNER: Hi, I’m glad to hear myself.

LR: I'm glad to hear you and I'm glad you're still around. You know that I've been a fan for decades. And that was a bit of a rough interview with Joe Pine back in 1967. What happened?

PAUL KRASSNER: It was funny. But, you know, at that show, at one point, he asked really mean-spirited questions. And at one point, like, I said, Okay, if you're going to ask questions like that, let me ask you, do you take off your wooden leg before you make love to your wife?

LR: [laughs] How did that go over?

PAUL KRASSNER: You know, his jaw literally dropped. I mean, he was in the Marines in, I forget which war, but he lost his leg in the war. And he had seven guns, I’d learned about him, and he slept with one under his pillow. He just, he just went nuts, because the producers of the show said that they've never seen him so messed up by a simple thing that a interviewee said. So, you know, he was the predecessor to all of these mean-spirited bullying hosts. Yeah.

LR: That’s what I love about your book, Paul. You know, I mean, it's all in there, Confessions of a Raving, Unconfined Nut. You know, I mean, you cover that whole period and it was so colourful. Where did the title come from?

PAUL KRASSNER: Oh, the title came from the FBI, the COINTEL, which stood for the counter-intelligence program. They wanted to hurt my character, I guess, because there was a positive profile about me in the old Life magazine and so one of the agents sent them a poison pen letter, meaning that the guy, . The FBI agent said that he was Howard Rasmussen at the Brooklyn School of General Studies and he said, it's not, Krassner is not just a social rebel. He's a nut, a raving, unconfined nut. And I thank the FBI for giving me the title to my autobiography.

PAUL KRASSNER: Oh, it was great. It was, you know—

LR: And this, I mean, this is how still attack somebody ‘s kind of mental, you know, and use someone's mental health issues against them. And Lenny even had that slogan, right? I’m not a nut. Elect me. Right? He said that political discourse had got to that level where that's where all you have to campaign on. I'm not a nut. Elect me.

PAUL KRASSNER: Oh, yeah, no. I mean, Lenny was a great. Even when things were going hard against him during his trial in Chicago he said, it's so corrupt it's thrilling.

LR: That’s right. Be a man. Sell out. That was another Lenny Bruce line that was just fantastic. And you were friends with Lenny Bruce.

PAUL KRASSNER: Yeah, I was friends with him and I edited his autobiography, How to Talk Dirty and Influence People. And, in fact, I’m working on my, long awaited by me, first novel about a Lenny Bruce contemporary, Lenny Bruce type performer is my protagonist. And so I taped all of my performances and what I said will be my protagonist in the story.

LR: The sublime material.

PAUL KRASSNER: But for a while I was, I thought that I was channeling Lenny until one day he said to me, come on, Paul, channelling? You know you don't believe in that crap. And then that stopped it. It ended the channeling.

LR: You sound like him. And, I mean, this is the golden age for people that don't know of what they used to call sick, sick humour, right? The sick humour of Mort Sahl, the sick humour of Paul Krassner, the sick humour of Lenny Bruce. And then then, you know, and of course, the more juvenile and hilarious variety Mad Magazine and you kind of lost your virginity, did you not, at Mad Magazine?

PAUL KRASSNER: That's right. That's right. Bill Gaines, the publisher let me use his-- Gave me a key to his office.

LR: I did not mean literally, by the way.

PAUL KRASSNER: No, but it was literal.

LR: Oh, okay, oh, okay. Yes. Go on.

PAUL KRASSNER: And I'm wearing right this minute Mad Magazine jacket that my daughter got for me one Christmas. So the cycle is completed.

LR: Now this takes knowing—Now, you guys, this all starts out and this, kind of, comes out of that very reactionary, kind of, Eisenhower society, very, very conservative But then, you know, society does catch up with you, kind of, rebels a little bit into the ‘60s. And then you kind of transition a little bit and you're the co-founder of a group called the Yippies. So remind people what the Yippies were.

PAUL KRASSNER: Yeah. The Yippies… The acronym was YIP and that stood for Youth, which, at that time, was a generation gap, and I was for International because it was a worldwide evolutionary jump in consciousness around the globe and, you know, in Mexico and Paris and Czechoslovakia, at the same time, so it wasn't just that. And the P was for Party, like that like a political party and a party. And because, as a journalist, I knew that the media needed a who for the who, what, when, where, and why. And so it worked. We had our first press conference and there were papers in Chicago, the headlines like, Yipes! The Yippies are coming.

LR: [laughs] And so you guys-- I mean, is it fair to say, I mean, you guys were kind of an activist, satirical kind of party and you kind of performed stunts.

PAUL KRASSNER: Exactly. You know, because we knew that there was going to be at the Democratic convention in Chicago in the summer of 1968 and it was a matter of having a counter convention there. And it was at the Democratic convention. It was a bipartisan war, but it happened to be under the Democrats watch at that point and, you know, the pull up-- The convention had speeches from the politicians whereas we wanted to have bands that played rock and it would have, around the perimeter of the field, there would be booths where people would get information about drugs, about the draft, about people who didn't want to be drafted who went to Canada.

LR: So would this almost be a precursor to the kind of Occupy movement? Would that be fair to say?

PAUL KRASSNER: Yeah, there was a connection to it. One of the pranks that the Yippies did was to go to the New York Stock Exchange and go up the balcony and threw 200 dollars’ worth of singles and threw them down on to the floor of the stock market. And most of the stock brokers there they hadn't seen cash before.

LR: That would work even better today.

PAUL KRASSNER: Yeah, so it morphed from, get your pork bellies here! Pork bellies! into diving for dollars. And it stopped the stock market. So that was the prank, but then we went outside and had a press conference and explained to them the connection between the Vietnam War and Wall Street’s interest in it, in terms of what stocks were related to funding the war.

LR: So, I mean, this is a precursor to what John Oliver and people like that are doing today, right? I mean, you guys really laid the groundwork for that.

PAUL KRASSNER: Yeah, even if they don't know. One of the most gratifying responses I got to publishing The Realist was from George Carlin who said that it changed his mind and it made him stop doing the old weatherman stuff—

LR: Wow.

PAUL KRASSNER: --and stuff that he believed in. And that was very gratifying because even young comics now didn't know that I was an influence on Carlin who was an influence on me. So it was a two-way street. But it was nice to know that it was, even if they didn't know my work, it was nice to have people be influenced by it—

LR: Absolutely.

PAUL KRASSNER: --even though they’ve never heard of me.

LR: And it was such a heady time. Do you miss it? Do you miss the ‘60s?

PAUL KRASSNER: Well, I’m not frozen in the ‘60s. I do miss the sense of community that we had then, but I never thought, for example, that marijuana would be legalized in America at all and I never thought that there would be same sex marriages that were legalized. So a lot the people who were in communes during the counterculture peak they would have organic farms. Most of the things they did are now used by the mainstream people.

LR: I mean, it has become part of the culture in some ways and once that's incorporated obviously there, you have to find new things to lampoon. But you also had a connection to Canada back then, before we move kind of out of ‘60s. Something happened at Expo ’67, right, with the Marines and the CBC?

PAUL KRASSNER: Oh, that's right. That's right. I was invited to speak at the-- to be interviewed for CBC, actually and I took out my—Now, it wasn't my draft card. It was a photo stat of my draft card. Because I was burning it at various campuses and so I had to keep the original and just burn the photo stats. And there was a Marine in there who was with the Protocol School there and he called the captain and said, you know, he just burned his draft card. He just did that. And so the captain came over to me and I said-- I picked out of my wallet my draft card. And I said, I burned a photo stat. And he said, well, that's against the law. I said, yeah, but I burn the evidence.

LR: [laughs] Now, that must have been very sobering, were you yourself sober at that time? If you recall?

PAUL KRASSNER: Oh, actually, I was sober, but I was tripping on acid.

LR: [laughs] I was using it in a general sense to get you to--

PAUL KRASSNER: And so the fellow who interviewed me, he said, well, l what do you think of this particular—

The dome. It was a like a dome from—what’s his name? The guy…

LR: Buckminster Fuller.

PAUL KRASSNER: Yes, yes, yes. And so I said, I love the beautiful, flowing colours.

LR: Right.

PAUL KRASSNER: And he said, what? I said, well, you can’t see them, but I can.

LR: [laughs] Now, you've been—I’m high on acid right now. No, I’m not. You’ve been a satirist for years. What does good satire do, do you think?

PAUL KRASSNER: If you’re doing something about hypocrisy or cruelty or just absurdity and you just expand it a little bit and people don't know whether it's possible-- The most recent example was I did a tweet and it said that the lawyers for Bill Cosby are going to play the affluenza card. And a lot of people thought that was true, which is indicating how, you know, they could not tell the difference between truth and satirical extension of the truth. And I deliberately didn't label any article in The Realist as a satire or as an investigative report.

LR: And how long did the satirical magazine The Realist run? Because you just kind of retired it recently.

PAUL KRASSNER: From 1958 to 2001. And the thing is that I wouldn't, I just didn't label them because I didn't want to take away from the readers that they could decide for themselves whether something was actually truth or an extension, a satirical extension of the truth.

LR: Right down to the title of newspaper itself, The Realist, which presumes—

PAUL KRASSNER: That's right. That’s right. I didn't want to say, you know, satire lives or anything like that.

LR: [laughs] You would today. They would make you. Time-Warner, when they bought it, would make you.

PAUL KRASSNER: Oh, well, these days there’s a kind of reincarnation of political correctness. And it's only making a lot of comedians go more on the edge.

LR: Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about that, because I wonder-- because this is something that really challenges me as a comic who's also a transgender woman and, you know, a feminist, but somebody who enjoys, you know, very dark humour as a kind of a leveller a kind of a corrective measure in a society. But how do you balance that because you have been on the frontline of women's reproductive rights and fighting for minorities and all these types of things and part of, you know, a First Amendment declaration of artistic, satirical freedom would be that you have the right to say absolutely everything. But how do wield the sword in the way that you're not hurting people, because I discount that notion, you know, that Stephen Fry says, for example, that I don't even know what being offended means. I mean, I think that's a very white kind of privileged position. I know what it means to be offended. Sometimes people are sensitive, but sometimes they're not, and sometimes a satirist will hit too many people with the same brush and people do get hurt. So how do you balance that, Paul?

PAUL KRASSNER: Well, you know, I do a lot of soul-searching and if I make fun of a public figure- a politician or entertainer- it's the risk of their being public figures and so they can't sue for libel. And in the more bizarre something is the less they’re likely to and sue because it will only make them look foolish that they took it literally or they thought it hurt their-- But there was no. You know. This is the paradox of America, that I have had the freedom to communicate all of the unjust things that this country did.

LR: Donald Trump is still leading the Republican field. Is that good news or bad news?

PAUL KRASSNER: Oh, you know, it’s amazing. It is absolutely amazing. You know, one of his ex-wives told a reporter that Donald Trump used to--how he had a bedside book, a collection of Adolf Hitler’s speeches. And that's what he read at bedtime.

LR: Right.

PAUL KRASSNER: I personally think that it was his version of foreplay, but what do I know.

LR: Now, is it hard when you have someone like Trump who is almost like an invented-- It's almost like a satirical character in an Altman film. Like, how can you top him? He’s risible.

PAUL KRASSNER: Well, he’s scary. But what is more scary to me is that his constituents—that he is just articulating the racism of his followers, because couldn't say it, it is amazing. All of the other campaigners for presidency in the Republican side that it was like the dinosaur follies.

LR: And what do you think—Now, you’re 80 years old and you’ve been sitting and participating in the American—

PAUL KRASSNER: I’m 83, actually.

LR: 83 years old.

PAUL KRASSNER: 83 is the new 82.

LR: Oh my… [laughs] Oh my goodness. So, I mean, do you—Edward Albee says that he doesn’t go to any kind of, you know, queer positive celebratory events because he's just waiting for someone to knock on the door. He doesn't think it's going to last. Are you that cynical? Or do you think that we’re still—

PAUL KRASSNER: Oh, no. I think that more and more—Even the Baptists, who have essentially had a lot of racism, but in my local area here in Coachella Valley the Baptist church is going to have a parade on Martin Luther King Day. So I think, you know, everything evolves and—

LR: And are you glad? The activist side of you is still going strong and the comic side of you is still going strong. From the comic side of it there, are you glad that we live in an absurd time?

PAUL KRASSNER: I mean, yeah. It’s so absurd. I mean, what I think is that I wish that Ted Cruz had stayed in Canada.

LR: [laughs] Me too. Me too. I’d have way more material on the Right. They’re certainly funnier than the Left. You know, because I did so last time I talked to you that I can talk to you for hours and I literally did and I wish I could hear but we have to wrap it on that today. Thank you. You’re such an inspiring figure to me, Paul, and it’s just a delight to speak to you today.

PAUL KRASSNER: Well, I appreciate that. We’ll continue somehow, some way. Take care.

LR: Wow. 83 years old. Paul Krassner, satirist and author. His latest book is Patty Hearst and the Twinkie Murders: A Tale of Two Trials. Paul Krassner was in Palm Springs, California.

Now, let’s hear a little bit of music from another satirist of a similar vintage, or rather, a pair of them.

Here’s a bit of the Smothers Brothers from their 1962 album Two Sides of the Smothers Brothers.

SOUNDCLIP

Voice 1: The song my brother would like to sing now, it was written in the first person by a man, about 150 years ago. It’s entitled Hangman.

Voice 2: [singing] Hangman, hangman, slack your roll. Slack it for [chokes]

[audience laughter]

Voice 2: [chuckles] It’s short.

[audience applause]

Voice 1: We have another song which is an old folk song and it hasn’t been sung enough lately. We feel it’s been sort of neglected. And it’s a very nice song. And I know you’ll recognize it the moment we start.

[guitar playing]

Voice 1: [singing] Jimmy cracked corn and I don’t care.

Voice 2: [singing] Jimmy cracked corn and I don’t care.

[cross singing] I don’t care, I don’t care, I don’t care.

Voice 1: [singing] Jimmy cracked corn— [speaks] Wait a minute.

[audience laughter]

Voice 1: That’s not the way the song goes.

Voice 2: I don’t care.

[audience laughter]

Voice 2: I just don’t like that song.

LR: That was the Smothers Brothers from their 1962 album, Two Sides of the Smothers Brothers.

Canada's health care doesn't meet the needs of transgender patients

Guests: A.J. Ripley, Dr. Kris Wells, Dr. Amy Bourns, Rachel Lauren Clark

LARA RAE: Hello, I'm Lara Rae, and this is the Friday edition of The Current.

SOUNDCLIP

[Music: Cello]

A.J. RIPLEY: If we can just alleviate that one barrier in our country, if we can say, we see that you're doing this thing where you're trying to love yourself and be yourself and we support that. At a governmental level we support that, through health care, we will provide you with the resources to do that, we know that that’s saving lives, and that everything else can be worked on, but if you can't get access to the simple medication you need, and you're constantly delaying that level of compassion. I think if that's, if you're choosing to medically transition and you don't have access, then your life is on hold.

LR: Access to health care and surgeries is a vital issue for any transgender person. And as that documentary clip made for Vice Media says, it can come down to being an issue of life and death. When it comes to transgender surgeries, nine out of ten provinces do offer some access. But there's only one Canadian hospital in Montreal that provides the full range of procedures. And that documentary we just heard was from A.J. Ripley, a writer, academic, and transgender activist who has been navigating the healthcare system in New Brunswick. And A.J. joins us from Fredericton, hello.

A.J. RIPLEY: Hi there.

LR: So, you made a film about access to healthcare for transgender Canadians, and particularly those in New Brunswick. What is the situation in your province, and how is it different from other parts of the country?

A.J. RIPLEY: Right, so myself and my co-producer Steph Brown, we wanted to take a look at what trans healthcare access looked like nationally. And so we started in the place that has the least access, which happened to be my home province of New Brunswick. So right now, trans Newbrunswickers don't have any sort of funded coverage for gender reassignment surgeries. And we've had a number of meetings since the doc aired, with the health minister. But up until the point of airing the documentary, we really, we had no access to healthcare, and we also had little conversation happening between the government and ourselves. So the documentary was paramount in getting our foot in the door and really pushing our health minister on these issues.

LR: Any sense out there why they’re so out of step with the rest of the country?

A.J. RIPLEY: Not immediately. I think, a lot of misinformation, so a preconceived notion that it was going to be a huge financial burden on a province that's already struggling financially. But what we know from lots of studies, is that it's actually more expensive to not fund these procedures, or it works out to a matter of pennies per person, because of the stress that number of trans people who don't have access--

LR: [interposing] Mental health issues, substance abuse issues. You know, it's kind of a lifesaving procedure in some ways.

A.J. RIPLEY: Definitely. Yeah, that's what we've heard time and time again from trans people, that it really is a matter of life and death.

LR: And you came out as transgender within the last year or so, what's that been like for you in New Brunswick?

A.J. RIPLEY: Yeah. It's different. I mean, I'm quite connected to a number of communities here, so I have to say, my neighbors have done a great job at relearning who I am, and I do feel that this is a fine place to be trans. It is unfortunate that the government is so behind the times, because the people of New Brunswick, I think, are really good hearted people, and there's a healthy queer community here. So it was kind of a disconnect between getting the support and services we need at a governmental level, versus having such a healthy and active community.

LR: And in general, in your case, what kind of, generally, what kind of care are we talking about here, and how hard has it been to access that care?

A.J. RIPLEY: So up until a clinic opened here, Clinic 554, you really had to know how to navigate the healthcare system, which a lot of people, myself included, don't. So you had to know the right psychiatrist to see, you had to know who would be willing to put you on hormones, and there weren't a lot of doctors in the province willing to do that.

LR: And this is this gatekeeper kind of protocol, right, which is this appearing in my home province, in Manitoba, for example, it’s an informed consent process.

A.J. RIPLEY: Right. And since Clinic 554 opened, it turned to informed consent for us here, as well. But up until that point, you really had to know who could help you along. And even then, so right now, we have, like I said, no gender reassignment surgeries are covered. Because, I think, hormones fall under Medicare, and that’s a different issue, and are generally covered in certain plans, but not all.

LR: And in other provinces, procedures like top surgery are covered by government health care. So how does that make you feel, that it's not the case in New Brunswick?

A.J. RIPLEY: Yeah, I often joke that I moved back to New Brunswick from Ontario too soon.

LR: So from your point of view personally this is something that you're considering, and how will you now have to go about getting top surgery, then, if it's not covered in New Brunswick?

A.J. RIPLEY: For me, I’ve taken it upon myself to crowd fund. Which is really difficult, because you essentially put your story out there, and it's a very personal story, and you're asking people you know and love, and even strangers, for money, for something that the government should rightfully be paying for.

LR: And does it, I know from personal experience, and tell me if this is your case, does it create some confusion? Because people are like, why are they collecting money when, doesn't the government pay for this?

A.J. RIPLEY: Oh yeah, absolutely. But even beyond that, I think a lot of people are misinformed and see these types of surgeries as elective surgeries, when they're really not. When we hear time and time again, that these are a matter of life and death for people, and that surgery saves lives. People still see it in an elective way, I think, because there's not a lot of education or representation of trans people out there.

LR: But you're getting your voices heard, right? I mean, there's a good activist community, as you said. What action has this community taken in New Brunswick to change the government policy, and how has it been received by people?

A.J. RIPLEY: Yeah, we've been very vocal, I think, particularly online. So the health minister expressed that he was a bit tired of being beaten up on Twitter, because we have really taken to online resources to get our message out there. We have a petition that has thousands of signatures.

LR: So this is ally support then, obviously, right?

A.J. RIPLEY: Yeah, definitely. Ally support, medical professional support. There are a lot of people here that really want to see this happen, that want to see New Brunswick on the same page as the rest of Canada.

LR: So some great momentum, but how hopeful are you, that you will actually change these policies?

A.J. RIPLEY: I'm trying to remain positive. I think a number of the other members in my group are really positive that the health minister will do the right thing. I am also, you know, a realist, so until I see something on paper, I’m still going to remain critical and--

LR: [interposing] And is there anything you can mark on your calendar, like, you know, are there things coming up, are there meetings, is there are steps in place where on a certain day, this might all be over?

A.J. RIPLEY: So he’s told us that hopefully, he will have an answer for us in March. So a little bit more waiting yet, but he's speaking with his constituents, I believe, right before that, and hopes to get back to us by March on where we're at.

LR: Well, hopefully, we can check back in with some good news. [crosstalk] I hope it all goes well.

A.J. RIPLEY: [interposing] All right, thank you so much, Lara.

LR: And A.J. Ripley is a writer, filmmaker, and trans activist in Fredericton, New Brunswick. We did ask New Brunswick Health Minister Victor Boudreau for a comment on his province’s policy. He told us in part, “We are aware of the issue, and work continues on the gender reassignment surgery’s file.” Well, sex reassignment surgery is a huge issue on its own, but for many transgender people, it's one of the final steps at the end of a very long road through our medical system. I have three guests joining me now to discuss the challenges transgender Canadians face in getting the healthcare they need, and what needs to be done to make this situation better. Kris Wells is the faculty director at the Institute for Sexual Minority Studies and Services at the University of Alberta, he's in Edmonton. That's Dr. Kris Wells. Amy Bourns is the faculty lead for LGBTQ Health Education at the University of Toronto, as well as a family physician at Sherborne Health Centre, she is with me here in Toronto. And so is Rachel Lauren Clark, a trans activist who has navigated the health care system here in Ontario. Hello to you all.

ALL: Good morning.

LR: Good morning. And Kris Wells, how would you describe the overall state of healthcare for transgender Canadians?

DR. KRIS WELLS: Well, as A.J. so eloquently stated, what we see is a real patchwork approach. It really varies depending on where you live, and fundamentally, here in Canada with the healthcare system we have, you shouldn't have to leave your province to be able to receive adequate care. So, that's a huge issue, and a huge barrier. And what's happening is many trans activists are the ones who are having to educate their government officials, and this process is just being repeated province by province by province, rather than us having a national conversation and coordination of what healthcare should look like for trans individuals across this country.

LR: And Dr. Amy Bourns, when a transgender person doesn't get the care they need, what are the consequences?

DR. AMY BOURNS: I think the recent Trans Paul Study confirmed what those of us who work with trans people a lot already knew, which is that access to necessary treatments improves the quality of life significantly, and as A.J. said, actually saves lives. The suicide rate in people who identify as trans who aren't able to access the treatments that they need is exorbitant, and it decreases significantly once a person says that they've had access to the treatments that they require in order to express their authentic self.

LR: And would it be fair to say, I know this is not your area of expertise, but would we be fair to say at the end of the day, this must cost less money, right? You know, one surgery versus a life of mental health issues and addiction, possible, and so on.

DR. AMY BOURNS: It's hard to imagine that it would not, yes, I agree with you.

LR: And I know in the United States, as the insurance, you know, it's an elective surgery thing. And yet, they're willing to pay out on all these other things, all these medicines and stuff. But I think it's the situation, whereas because it's a one term thing, it's not as good for the pharmaceutical companies and the insurance companies and so on, that you actually fix the person and help make them better. Now Rachel, you came out as trans about seven years ago, tell me about your life before that day.

RACHEL LAUREN CLARK: Life for me was very, very difficult, because I knew that there was something going on inside of me that wasn't right.

LR: When do you think you knew?

RACHEL LAUREN CLARK: I was four or five.

LR: That’s… [crosstalk]

RACHEL LAUREN CLARK: Yeah, very early.

LR: I hear the number four a lot.

RACHEL LAUREN CLARK: Yeah.

LR: And I wonder if that's just because our memory doesn't go back much further than four, that we might have known at two, or one.

RACHEL LAUREN CLARK: Well. We may have known, but I think for me, you know, that's the time when you start going to pre-school and you start learning about the delineation between traditional boy things and traditional girl things. And so that's when you start to be aware, that, you know, there's different genders in the world, is when you're about three or four years old.

LR: I went to school in Glasgow at age five, and literally, there was a girls' and boys' entrance at the school.

RACHEL LAUREN CLARK: Right.

LR: And we’d march in, and I would be separated from my gender at recess by a fence , and I'd stand at the fence, and gaze in.

RACHEL LAUREN CLARK: [interposes] And that’s when the delineation starts. Very early on, you're taught this is what boy is this, is what a girl is.

LR: And so how old were you when you said I'm going to...

RACHEL LAUREN CLARK: I was 40.

LR: 40, and how were you treated by doctors before you found the cure you needed?

RACHEL LAUREN CLARK: It was very difficult, because every time I went to the doctor, I’d talk to my family doctor, and she said, well I just don't know what to do with you. They sent me for psychiatric care, and put me on a massive amount of medication. It wasn't the solution at all. The solution was when I got proper trans healthcare, and it was a very, very inexpensive medication called Estradiol, which really changed my life, so significantly for the better.

LR: I mean, I don't think people realize, I'm on the on the same medication, but yes, I mean once the levels kind of hit in your body, it does work like an antidepressant in a sense, right? That you just feel, your brain feels right. It's almost, I say this, it's like you have the wrong gas in your tank, right? Instead of estrogen, you have testosterone, and when you clean out the wrong gas and have the right fuel system, everything works better. It's not just an appearance thing, I was amazed how much your thinking and your general well-being changes. And I'm glad you did find the doctors, finally, and it is getting better, but Amy, how hard is it to find the right doctors?

DR. AMY BOURNS: Some people are lucky, and find access fairly readily, and other people, like Rachel, and especially people that don't live in urban centres, are not so lucky and get bounced around. Sometimes on waiting lists, sometimes having to travel, sometimes resorting to accessing, purchasing hormones like Estradiol on the Internet--

LR: [interposing] Street hormones, they call them.

DR. AMY BOURNS: Yes. And there’s certain risks that come with taking hormones without monitoring.

LR: [interposing] Oh my goodness, I've heard of incredible high levels of estrogen people take, you know.

DR. AMY BOURNS: Right.

LR: And you can have a heart attack.

DR. AMY BOURNS: Yeah, what we know now is there's much safer forms of estrogen than used to be used, but in general, the street hormones tend to be the less safe formats. So yeah, Rachel's experience is not entirely unheard of, but it is improving. There are a number of health centres that, in Toronto, for example, that focus on the trans population, and have very knowledgeable providers. And these centers are also allowing other physicians and health care providers to come shadow and learn how to do this very important work. But we still have a lot of work to do, in getting more primary care providers comfortable with providing this care.

LR: I mean, I'm from Manitoba, and certainly in Winnipeg it's getting better, but we have a tremendous number of people up north, and so it makes it a bit more difficult when they have to come to the trans clinic in the Winnipeg. But I mean, it was so refreshing and optimistic for me to find out that it’s an informed consent policy. And so I do most of it with my family doctor. He administers the hormones and checks the blood and the levels and stuff. And obviously, that cuts down on the wait times and so on, but you could still wait months on end. And it has the same wait times as the rest of our healthcare system. And Kris, how much stigma still exists for transgender people within the healthcare and the medical world?

DR. KRIS WELLS: Well I think, the stories we hear is first the challenge of even being able to find a primary care physician that will support and treat trans individuals. And many, when they do seek out medical support, talk about being revictimized. And often we hear doctors saying, well, this is just outside of my scope of practice, so I can't help you.

LR: But my goodness, it's writing a prescription and checking blood levels in most cases, right?

DR. KRIS WELLS: Well, absolutely. So to me, that speaks to the level of prejudice and discrimination that still exists within the healthcare system. And I think what we really need to do to combat that is provide education and training. So in our medical schools and programs, unfortunately, a new doctor can graduate without any information on LGBT health care issues, never mind to speak about the urgent need for continuing education of the professionals who are already out there in practice. And simple things, like even using inclusive language. What kind of forms are used when you fill out that new patient history, are they inclusive and supportive, and creating a safe space in your practice. These are just little, simple things that can mean a whole world of difference.

LR: Absolutely, and Rachel, how does that fit with your experience?

RACHEL LAUREN CLARK: I mean, it's exactly spot on. It's very difficult to walk into a doctor's office, and open yourself up, and be authentic, and not get the help you need, and knowing that you're not getting the help you need. And I agree with Dr. Wells, I think that we need to make a big push toward education of trans issues, because I think there's just a massive amount of misinformation out there.

LR: At the resin, and you know, my doctor, my doctor was amazing. I told him, he was slightly perplexed at first, because he's known me and he's a friend of mine for many years. But then he just said, you know, well, I'm going to have to watch some documentaries. And I mean, that's really all you have to do, right, and then they sent the protocols for what levels worked. And so it's not very difficult. Kris, while it does vary from province to province, can you give me an overview of the general process a person would go through, from coming out as trans, to having sex reassignment surgery if they chose to?

DR. KRIS WELLS: Sure. I think it's that first question of being able to find that primary care physician who's going to be open and supportive, and not, hopefully, turn you away, to be able to connect you with the specialist. So again, depending on the province you might live in, often a referral to a psychiatrist and the challenge there is many, I know, even here in Alberta, there’s very few specialists, and there can be up to a two year waiting list even to get in for a short appointment. And then from there, we may be looking at referrals to endocrinology, often speech pathology will be part of a process, as you so eloquently talked about yesterday. And then, a referral for surgery, and as was discussed, the only clinic is in Montreal, and that can be another long, long wait, and actually might not even be the best surgical option for people. Surgery in other jurisdictions around the world that might even be cheaper, or more current technologies, are not accessible. So we still have a lot of gaps in the system, and too often it's up to the trans individual to be able to piece all of this information together. So it would be nice to see a consistent pathway and access, and timely access being a huge issue. Because as we've talked about, this can be life and death for so many individuals, who can't afford to wait years to be able to finally get support to be themselves.

LR: And even though we now have, in some provinces, informed consent for hormones, is it fair to say that across the country still, for the actual sexual reassignment surgery, that you have to at least see some kind of psychologist or psychiatrist, as well as a letter from like a trans health clinic in order to complete that process, and knowing that the mental health system is even worse than the kind of health system... I mean, doesn't this delay, maybe unnecessarily in some cases, especially with cognizant adults, who clearly are of sound mind?

DR. KRIS WELLS: Absolutely, I think the more pathways and the more people we have educated around trans health issues, we can start to remove some of those stopgaps, those barriers that are bottlenecking the system and let people into the surgery, if they if they decide to go that pathway. Right now, there's very few routes to get to the end goal.

LR: And Amy Bourns, Dr. Amy Bourns, how important is education about transgender health issues for medical professionals, and why hasn't that been taught, and why isn't it taught in medical school, for goodness sake?

DR. AMY BOURNS: That's a great question. I think you can't ignore the impact that stigma and discrimination has had. And I don't think you can ignore the dedication of our society to the idea of a gender binary. These things are things that are being broken down and take time, especially in large systems such as medical education and health care systems. There's been a lot of effort over, I would say the last decade, a lot of actual medical students and other health professional students have been very active in advocating for content to be in the curriculum. Until recently, unfortunately, it's been sort of more on an elective basis, so it's kind of preaching to the converted, if you're already [crosstalk] interested.

LR: [interposing] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

DR. AMY BOURNS: Then you can attend the special talk. And more and more now, there are efforts to integrate it into the mandatory curriculum, including being examined on the content. And it's absolutely key, because until it's a part of medical training, it's always going to be perceived as something that I don't need to know. Or it's a subspecialty care, I'm going to refer you to somebody else.

LR: We could talk about this all day-- [crosstalk]

DR. AMY BOURNS: [interposing] Absolutely.

LR: But unfortunately, we’re out of time. And so I thank you all so much. Kris Wells is with the Institute of Sexual Minorities Studies, he’s a Phd at the University of Alberta, in Edmonton. Dr. Amy Bourns is family physician focused on LGBT health, in Toronto. And Rachel Lauren Clark is a trans activist, in Toronto. And once again, this is a conversation we're going to keep going on Twitter today. We're talking about trans issues on The Current’s Twitter. That's @thecurrentcbc, tweet me with your questions starting at 12:00 Eastern, 9:00 A.M. Pacific, using the hashtag #AskLara. I'll talk to you then.

[Music: Sting]

Lara Rae's Ode to David Bowie

LR: That's today's edition of The Current, stay tuned to Radio One for q. Popular art lost an icon this week, with the death of David Bowie. And I say art as opposed to music, as his life was a great work of art. While David Bowie’s various musical personas inspired so many from Radiohead, to the Smiths, to Bjork, to Madonna, it was the impact of Bowie's artistic spirit, divine in its incorporation of the masculine and the feminine, that moved so many. How often did that divine voice make life tolerable, not just as a vocalist who could rival Johnny Mathis in a cover of Wild as the Wind, or as a stage and screen and voice actor, but most importantly, when this man, born Davy Jones, likely one of the most ubiquitous names in the U.K., spoke as David Bowie. Ladies, gentleman, and others, he said from the podium of the 1975 Grammy Awards. A shout out to my scattered tribe, a reminder we, and I, were not alone in our otherness, or locked out forever, if Bowie was a role model, from enjoying a successful and remarkable life. And although ever the gentleman, like me, he seems to have hated being called sir. Because he turned down in 2003 Her Majesty's honorific. It's the tune Rebel Rebel that popped into my head when my daughter texted me of his death. A death that brought my daughter, my mother, and myself to tears. Not sure if you're a boy or a girl, check. Not the only song to deal with gender variance, but what makes it unique is the singer, Bowie, doesn't seem to care if this hot tramp he loves so is a boy or girl. Bowie crossed the gender line, but more importantly, he blurred it. Now, in some ways, the line is almost fading away. Same sex, different sex, one gender, two genders, or maybe one day, as many genders as there are people. And the really is only two kinds of romantic love: healthy and unhealthy. May all of you be blessed with the former in the years ahead. I’m Lara Roe, thank you for listening to the Friday edition of The Current.

[Music: Rebel Rebel by David Bowie]

Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknoledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

January 15, 2016 Episode Transcript

Social Sharing

More from this episode