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The AIH Transcript for July 03, 2018

Hosts: Carol Off and Jeff Douglas

Prologue

ROBYN BRESNAHAN: Hello, I'm Robyn Bresnahan sitting in for Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I’m Chris Howden, sitting in for Jeff Douglas. This is “As It Happens”

[Music: Theme]

CH: Tonight:

RB: Nowhere fast. Metis lawyer Breen Ouellette says the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women is speeding toward failure. And tonight, he'll tell us about his decision to resign.

CH: Thin ice. Climate change has introduced new routes for the global shipping industry, which has introduced new dangers to the marine mammals who live there.

RB: An extremely awkward stage. One major artist won't appear at the Montreal Jazz Festival, and protesters will keep showing up — because of a show that features a group of mostly white people singing black slave songs.

CH: Judge not because ye be unjudged. Under Poland's new legislation, nearly half the country's Supreme Court will be forced to retire. And one justice who'll keep his job says his colleagues should keep theirs.

RB: Siri to bother you. In the middle of a statement to Parliament, a British MP is interrupted by his assistant who happens to reside in the pocket of his suit jacket.

CH: And striking while the charcoal is hot. While he's taking a video of himself doing some long weekend barbecuing, a take-charge Ottawa man very nearly takes a lethal charge, when lightning strikes shockingly nearby.

CH: “As It Happens”, the Tuesday edition. Radio that confirms the video is surprisingly well-done, and our guest is surprisingly not.

[Music: Theme]

Part one: MMIWG layer, Jazz Fest controversy, lightning BBQ

MMIWG layer

Guest: Breen Ouellette

CH: Resignations have plagued the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls since it began. This week, lawyer Breen Ouellette joined those who have quit their posts with the inquiry. But unlike most of those who exited, he's speaking out about why. In a press release yesterday, Mr. Ouellette said he has experienced a serious loss of confidence in the inquiry. And that he could not stay part of a process that was speeding towards failure. We reached Breen Ouellette in Vancouver.

RB: Mr. Ouellette, why have you experienced a serious loss of confidence in this inquiry?

BREEN OUELLETTE: It comes down to the events around the announcement of the short extension by Minister Bennett. The messaging from the commissioners prior to the short extension was that the commission would fail without two years and an additional 50 million dollars. And then the government announced this short extension without any budget promises. And then the commissioners changed their story and said that they continued to work towards completing a report.

RB: But what do you fear is going to be missed without this extension?

BO: There are several issues. One of the big issues is that the commission has taken or has pending a total of 1,700 testimonies across the country. And if the registration process hadn't been closed in April, I think that number would have continued to climb. Part of the purpose of a national inquiry is to investigate the allegations that are brought forward in the testimony. And I can't see any reasonable way that the government would expect the inquiry to complete its work on the basis of the short extension.

RB: I actually spoke to Minister of Crown Indigenous Relations Carolyn Bennett about this last month, and what she told me is that the two-year extension could not be granted because the provinces and territories were not all in agreement. And she said that as well many Indigenous families also just want this process to be over with, for the healing to begin, for action to start to take place. How do you respond to that?

BO: Well, there's two parts that question. With respect to the families and the survivors of violence, there are many that came and gave their testimony because they're seeking justice, they want answers, and they're still waiting. The other side of the coin is that Minister Bennett's comment about what the provinces and the territories wants is further demonstrative of how these governments are trying to shirk their responsibilities as the creators of the national inquiry. If provinces or territories want to remove themselves from this process, they should be giving a reason why. If the reason is that the commissioners of the national inquiry are not doing their job — that they don't have confidence in them — then those commissioners should be fired and they should be replaced. If they believe that the testimony that has come forward so far doesn't identify any areas worth investigating, then that should be their position on the record. But if they do have faith in the commissioners and they do believe that there are serious issues that this commission is investigating, then they're only responsible choices to continue it.

RB: More than the time line — the extension of this inquiry — you have also said that the government has undermined the independence and impartiality of the inquiry. How so exactly?

BO: Well, you've got the short extension, for starters. You've got a government that is saying we're going to talk with the inquiry about what kind of budget increases they're going to get. That is direct interference with how the commission is going to get its work done.

RB: What do you mean by that?

BO: There's a difference between providing the money to do the work and deciding we don't like you to do the work that way. So try again, and then maybe we'll give you your budget. There's a big difference.

RB: From the very beginning, you must have known that this inquiry would be a massive undertaking? What was it that convinced you to join it in the first place?

BO: I actually I wasn't convinced in the first place to join it. I was asked to submit a resume and I respectfully declined. But then I found myself having difficulty sleeping for a couple of days after that. And the reason was that I kept thinking about my nieces. I'm Metis, and if something ever happened to them, if one of them went missing or was murdered, then I would feel that I had played a part in it. So I submitted my resume after reflecting on that.

RB: Now that you have left, what does that mean for your nieces?

BO: Well, right now, it means that I have to continue to do what I can outside of commission to try to see that it gets back on the right track. I'm just one lawyer. There's not much I can do, but I'm going to speak out.

RB: You say that this inquiry is speeding towards failure. What do you think that means for the families of the missing and murdered Indigenous women and girls?

BO: To me, what that means is that they will not receive the justice that they were seeking when they came to give their testimony. And many of the people who came to testify about their loss were doing so because they wanted answers and they wanted someone out there to say what was done to you, and your loved one was wrong.

RB: Mr. Ouellette, I appreciate you talking to us today. Thank you very much.

BO: Thank you for your time.

CH: We reached Breen Ouellette in Vancouver, British Columbia. For more on his resignation from the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, go to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

Jazz Fest controversy

Guest: Aly Ndiaye

[Music: Quarrel by Moses Sumney]

CH: That's U.S. singer-songwriter Moses Sumney. And even if you have tickets in hand, you won't be able to see him perform at the Montreal Jazz Festival tonight. Yesterday, on Twitter, Mr. Sumney announced that he was pulling out of the gig to protest another show at the festival called, SLAV. The show, by Robert Lepage and Betty Bonifassi, he has sparked controversy and protests — because it features white performers seeing African-American slave songs. Aly Ndiaye is a Quebec hip-hop artist and historian who performs under the name Webster. We reached him outside of Montreal.

RB: Mr. Ndiaye, what was your reaction when you heard that Moses Sumney was pulling out of the Montreal Jazz Festival?

ALY NDIAYE: Well, I think that was a great reaction. I think that it shows solidarity with what people are going through. It shows respect to what people are trying to achieve, and the fact that they need to recognize that there is a problem about this display.

RB: What bothers you most about the show?

AN: You know we've been complaining for years about the lack of diversity on stage, on the screen, on the TV set. And now that there is a play — there is a show — about black history here, we're not able to hire black comedians and black singers? This is a problem to me. And people will say well, there are two hired, but that's not enough. And to depict black people, I think that we need black people to play those parts. It reminds me like that for centuries white people have been playing black. They’ve been playing Latinos, they've been playing Native Americans, they've been playing Asians. Like let's say it was 20 or 30 years ago, they would have painted their faces black.

RB: I understand that the producers of the show actually came to you last year to ask you for your thoughts on the production. What did you tell them at the time?

AN: I was kind of being consultant about the history of slavery because I’ve specialized in the history of slavery in the black persons here in Quebec. And we talked about history, but I also told them told them there was a problem. I'd seen a preview of this show in January. I told them this still was a problem. And after April, this is when I decided to step away from the project because, to me, it wasn't conceivable to have white people play black slaves.

RB: So did they take any of your suggestions on board and add more black performers to the cast?

AN: Well, they added two. And I don't know if it's because I told them, but they hired two black singers to play those parts. And just to be clear, you know? Because we talk a lot about Betty Bonifassi singing slave songs, which is not a problem to me. The problem is when there is the depiction, and there is a play, and you depict the people this is where there is a problem — where people don't recognize themselves, and they need to recognize themselves.

RB: So I'm not sure I understand that. You say you have no problem with Betty Bonifassi, who is white, singing the songs. So what is it about her depiction then? There's no problem. She does a concert, she sings those songs, to me, that's OK. But when there is a play involved, when you depict people, when you talk about history, and you use people to depict this history, and you don't hire black people to play black slaves that's a problem.

RB: Robert Lepage and Betty Bonifassi they put out a statement, and they acknowledged that the history of slavery belongs first and foremost to the ones who have been oppressed. But they also said this they said, quote, “This history was written by the oppressors as much as by the oppressed. And it's necessary to continue the dialogue about this difficult period.” End quote. What are your thoughts about that?

AN: Well, what I think is that a lot of the oppressors wrote this history, and that they never took the time to listen to the voice of the oppressed. Now that's a bit the same thing. It’s like oh, let's talk about this history, but we don't use the people to whom this history belongs. We don't use them in the narrative. So yeah, to me, this is kind of the same thing as usual.

RB: So if all of the singers in this — all of those depicting slaves — if they had been black, would you have a problem with it?

AN: Well, it would be better. I still have some problems with some of the aspects of this show. It's like when they put together an Irish slavery and black slavery kind of on the same foot, to me, that's not it, you know? It's like even like the Irish-American Association put out a statement a couple of months ago about the difference between what happened to the Irish people in the Americas and what happened with the black slavery. And also, what I didn’t like in the shows is kind of you talk about slavery, but then you had to talk about the language divide like what happened between French and English, and, to me, that wasn't appropriate.

RB: Bonifassi also gave an interview to the Montreal Gazette, saying that her family is from Serbia, that they have been through hardships, that human suffering is universal. Do you take her point?

AN: I understand, but it's a bit easy to me. Because yeah, like human suffering part of world heritage. Yeah, but then you have to understand and take for account those sufferings that are steeped in race and racism. Slavery is a racist enterprise. Race is a central part of slavery in the Americas. So you cannot like talk about slavery in the Americas and not talk about race.

RB: What does it say to you that SLAV is the most popular ticketed show at the Montreal Jazz Festival?

AN: Well, I think that the controversy around it helped to sell tickets. I don't say that the controversy was made to sell tickets, but then people like they heard so much about it they say I'll look it up for myself, you know? But then imagine if there were like more black actresses, it would have been a good opportunity for them to be seen by other people, and just helps foster this part of culture that is looked upon by the black presence. It would have been a good opportunity to bridge the divide and bridge the gap.

RB: You say this whole thing has made you feel very uncomfortable. Where does that discomfort where does the heart of that come from?

AN: To me, it's like you talk about black history, but you forget the black part of it. That makes me uncomfortable.

RB: Mr. Ndiaye, it was good to talk to you. Thanks so much for your time.

AN: Well, thank you. It was my pleasure.

RB: Bye bye.

AN: Au revoir

CH: Aly Ndiaye is a Quebec hip-hop artist and historian who performs under the name Webster. We reached him outside Montreal.

Lightning BBQ

Guest: Sarp Kizir

CH: When Sarp Kizir started the barbecue yesterday, his biggest concern was how the food would get cooked. Not whether he would. But then it started raining. And then he was almost struck by lightning. We reached Sarp Kizir in Ottawa.

RB: Mr. Kizir, what were you planning to throw on the barbecue before all of this happened?

SARP KIZIR: Well, I really don't like the jarred salsa that they sell at grocery stores in the chip isle, so I was going to make a salsa verde on my barbecue grill using tomatillos.

RB: Sounds delicious. So you're there, you're heating up the grill. And then what happens?

SK: Well, I was just recording a video because I really enjoy the meditation videos that they have on YouTube and stuff, where they're just playing like rain sounds and river sounds and stuff like that. It really helps me relax. So I was recording something of my own that I could use later. And yeah, and as I was doing that, this gigantic lightning bolt smash down somewhere within about ten feet of me or something like that, and I captured the whole thing on video.

RB: I think we have some sound of that video. Let's play it. Just a sec.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: That was close!]

RB: OK. Those are our bleeps, of course. Did you say ow?

SK: Yeah, I think I said ow, but not like when you're hurt or like when you stub your toe or something. But more like owwwwww, you know?

RB: What did it look like?

SK: Well, it felt like something that was extraordinarily out of the world. It was very quick, very intense. It was extremely loud.

RB: So it was extremely loud. Did you see a flash of anything?

SK: I did, yeah. Like I was saying, it's so quick that you don't really register it. But looking at the video, you obviously see a flash there.

RB: Did it cause any damage?

SK: I'm not taking any chances with going up on my roof right now because of my streak with bad luck, but there isn't any damage on the ground or anything like that I noticed.

RB: Could you believe that you caught that moment on video?

SK: No, I don't actually. I'm pretty surprised that that happened. It's like one-in-a-billion chances of being struck by lightning, but also catching it on video.

RB: Who was the first person you sent the video to?

SK: I sent it to my girlfriend, who was traveling back from a camping trip.

RB: And how did she react?

SK: Oh, she was in shock. She was worried. She was concerned. She was asking me if I was OK and everything. Yeah, I was in a state of shock as well, so I was describing how I felt and what I was going through, yeah.

RB: You're lucky!

SK: Yeah, I'm very lucky.

RB: How have people reacted? You posted it on Twitter, and you've had quite a lot of reaction. What is the overwhelming emotion that people write down to you?

SK: Well, people are really glad that I'm okay. And they seem to be just as frightened as I was because they get to experience that through the video, right? So yeah, a lot of a lot of outpouring of support, and you know being glad that I was okay, and a lot of concern there that I really appreciate.

RB: I have to say I also saw some people saying I'm really sorry to react this way, but I have to say I laughed.

SK: Yeah, yeah, I was laughing too actually. I laughed for a good ten minutes after that happened I guess just from like the shock and the adrenaline that was going through my system.

RB: I guess it kind of ruined your meditation video?

SK: Yeah, but I got I got a good amount of rain sounds before that. That was just an edited clip of when that lightning struck.

RB: Just going to put this out there; I'm guessing the answer is no. But have you ever been struck by lightning before?

SK: No, I haven't.

RB: That’s the closest you came.

SK: Closest ever, yeah.

RB: It's probably the closest you ever want to come again.

SK: Oh, of course, yeah.

RB: Did the salsa turn out at least?

SK: Oh, it did. Yeah, it was a huge hit.

RB: Great to talk to you. Thanks so much for sharing your story with us.

SK: Thank you.

RB: Bye bye.

SK: Bye.

CH: That was Sarp Kizir, he nearly got struck by lightning yesterday. We reached him in Ottawa. And we've posted Mr. Kizir’s video on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

Part two: Marine mammals Arctic, Polish judge

Marine mammals Arctic

Guest: Donna Hauser

CH: As greater stretches of sea ice melt in the Arctic, the global shipping industry is poised to take advantage of easier-to-navigate routes, which will make life more difficult to navigate for marine mammals. A new study published by the U.S. National Academy of Sciences looks at the vulnerability of seven major species to vessels moving through the Northwest Passage and Northern Sea Route. And it finds that narwhals are now most at risk. Donna Hauser is a marine mammal biologist and the lead author of the study. We reached her in Fairbanks, Alaska.

RB: Ms. Hauser, remind us what a narwhal looks like?

DONNA HAUSER: Sure, so the narwhals are commonly referred to as the “unicorns of the sea”. And the male narwhal can grow a task, which is actually one of its two top teeth. It erupts through its upper jaw. And as the brilliant tusk that you see when you see images of narwhals.

RB: And why were they found to be most at risk from your study?

DH: Sure, so we found that narwhals were among the most vulnerable to vessel effects. And that's largely due to their very high exposure. Basically, narwhals have this relatively restricted range and fidelity to specific summer areas in the Canadian High Arctic and around Greenland. And, of course, many of those populations happen to be right in the middle of the Northwest Passage during that summer to fall period where we think vessel traffic will be the most and we focused our study.

RB: And Narwhals have a specific way of communicating that I understand vessel traffic kind of interferes with. Can you talk to us about that?

DH: Sure, well so we looked at sensitivity, which was this combined measure of several biological, ecological, and potential vessel impact factors across all of the species. And so in terms of those vessel impact factors, those could include acoustic disturbance, since these are animals that use sound for communication, and navigation, and foraging. And so that's one of the areas for narwhals in particular that we think there was higher sensitivity. Some of the other vessel impact factors for the Arctic marine mammals include factors like direct collision. So there could be ship strikes that lead to mortality or injury of animals. There could also be behavioural disturbance. So things like displacement from preferred habitat. And we know that narwhals have this fidelity to these summering areas. And so the potential for displacement from preferred habitat could be severe.

RB: So just to bring it back to the acoustics for a minute, is it basically that these boats are so loud that they are interfering with the communication between narwhals?

SOUNDCLIP

GAVIN WILLIAMSON: And surrounding areas.

SIRI: I found something on the web for Syrian democratic forces supported by premonition.

GW: What a very rum business that is. I do apologize for that. It is very rare that you are heckled by your own mobile phone. Indeed, on this occasion, it is a new parliamentary convention without a doubt. So if I may proceed, Mr Speaker, without the help and support of Siri.

CH: That was Apple's voice assistant Siri interrupting a speech by Gavin Williamson, the UK’s defense secretary in the British House of Commons today. After the session, there were some questions over whether or not Siri’s outburst would be logged in Hansard — the transcript of parliamentary debate. Observers have said Siri’s 15 seconds of fame would most likely be logged in Hansard as a, quote, “interruption”. What a very rum business, indeed.

Polish judge

Guest: Wlodzimierz Worbel

CH: Poland's president says the country's top judge is due to step down tomorrow. But the judge is promising to be hard at work. Their fight has to do with a new law that retroactively changes the retirement age of judges from 70 to 65. It would clear out more than a third of the top court not Wlodzimierz Worbel though. Judge Rubell is still too young. But he agrees with his colleagues when they say that the new law violates the Constitution by undermining judicial independence, and the rule of law. We reached judge Worbel in Warsaw.

RB: Judge Worbel, the government says all other groups in Polish society retire at 65 years old. That it is nothing more sinister than that. What's your response?

WLODZIMIERZ WORBEL: Certainly. But when you make this statue retroactive, you know and then you do not even hide the motive. And the motive is just to remove a group of judges from the Supreme Court just to have the chance to appoint the new judges that will be politically-dependent from the political party. So you can make let's say a semi law, a semi statue just to realize a very severe and varying important political aim with it.

RB: But the government says it is making this move also because the judiciary in Poland is inefficient, cases drag on for months and months, some judges are corrupt, they're overpaid, and there are rotten communist-era judges still in the system. Any of that true?

WW: I was just wondering you know when this kind of propaganda has started in Poland? Also, with some campaign finance funded public resources by the government. I was just trying to imagine if it will be possible in the other countries? Even with the very efficient judicial system because you know that's what has happened and what's going on in the Polish courts. This is a very average level of the European Union. So when you only look at the statistics, yes. But I think that such a campaign— such a black propaganda — could be done in each country that deals with the populistic tendencies — with the populism in the policy. Because the judges and the judiciary it is a very good target for this kind of political movement. So I think that what we now are experiencing in Poland it is a lesson for the other countries in Europe, and perhaps in the other part of the world as well.

RB: OK. But it still didn't really answer my question. You're calling it propaganda, but are you saying all of these things that the government say is wrong with the judiciary so that it is inefficient….

WW: With the inefficiency, certainly it could it could be quicker, it could be more efficient, more cases could be solved. And there could be more verdicts. But when you when we just compare the statistics, we are just in the middle in the European Union. When you think about the corruption, the cases are really very rare. And the disciplinary measures are efficient. But you know we are living in the post-truth through society. So when you are talking about something, very often very loud, you can make the people believe in that, yes? And so it was done in Poland. Our problem was the problem of communication. So there was a great mistrust with the judiciary. And there was also a great misunderstanding. When we were talking about the role of the judiciary, so there was a lot of people that never heard about the Supreme Court and about what the courts are doing.

RB: But just to go back to saying that some judges are corrupt. You said those cases are rare, but they should be non-existent. No?

WW: Well, but you know when you deal with 10,000 judges, so you find two or three cases of corruption. That's not something that makes a great impression. So in such a big group, you can find people who are weak or who were accepted to this profession without great let's say the considerations, yes. So they shouldn't be there. You know the problem is if the system works like that that we could get rid of such a person from the profession that it works.

RB: The ruling Law and Justice Party, so the government, had this plan to reform the judicial system in its manifesto. They won the election in Portland quite soundly. So how can you not argue that this is the will of the people?

WW: You know that is the problem. That is the will of the majority. And you know that's why you have the Constitution that regulates in which way you can change the fundaments of the system. In which you can change the procedures and you can change the institutions themselves. You know each party is doing its work and adopting new laws according to the Constitution. The judges are not to comment on these things, yes? But when we deal with the systematic infringement into Constitutional law so how could you live with that? Because then you don't have any rules anymore.

RB: But in a way, who are a bunch of unelected judges to defy the democratic will of the people?

WW: Well, we do not fight with the democratic will of the people, but we are struggling for the obedience to the Constitution.

RB: But they elected the government.

WW: Okay. But you don't it's not that the democratic majority can do all things. You know, in Europe, we know the history. And we know the experience from the history that the majority adopted the law that it was then something that was against the deepest values of the human being, yes. And that that kind of experience makes us especially sensitive on this basic rules that should be followed, that should be respected, and there is no majority that could just vote against it.

RB: Judge Wrobel, thank you very much for your time today.

WW: Thank you very much.

RB: Okay. Bye bye.

WW: Bye.

CH Wlodzimierz Wrobel is a Polish Supreme Court judge. We reached him in Warsaw.

Australia bags

CO: Over the weekend, a ban came into effect in Australia — on free, lightweight plastic bags such as you find at a supermarket. Retailers in five Australian states and territories will no longer supply plastic bags at the till — as part of an international effort led by the UN to rid the world of single-use plastic by 2022. It's good news for the environment. But this ban on bags is not everyone's bag. Some see it as a shot across the bow in a culture war that has rocked Australia. Here's one take from conservative radio host Michael McLaren on radio station 2 GB.

SOUNDCLIP

MICHAEL MCLAREN: Now, yesterday morning, we were inundated with calls on this plastic bag ban. And 99 per cent of you were calling it for what it is: a seemingly a very profitable line of corporate Greeny virtue signalling that may be more about lining supermarkets pockets than it is about the oceans. Now, the supermarkets moral posturing to ask about environmental sustainability and protectionism — all those buzzwords. And they are making a quid from it. We had a little look at the facts, remember? Talking about a comprehensive study into plastic pollution showed that China, Indonesia, the Philippines, Vietnam, and Thailand they're the top five plastic polluters. China the worst; four-pint-eight to something like twelve-point-seven million tons of plastic waste into the sea in a single year. Four-point-eight to twelve-point-seven million. Australia's contribution: less than zero-point-zero-one tons. So once again, it's not Australia's fault. But once again, you and I are being asked to change our behaviours because we can help fix the world. Boy, oh boy! It's gotten so bad apparently in the supermarkets around. And, of course, we've got this happening now and woolies and other places. And we've got bags being brought into the supermarkets. It's got so bad that we're hearing about cockroaches, needles, razorblades, dentures, dirty nappies being found by supermarket operators — the checkout workers — in these bags.

CH: That was conservative radio host, Michael McLaren, talking about the plastic bag ban in Australia.

Tree gator

CH: In Florida recently, a terrified mother made a 911 call. She needed someone to help her daughter.

SOUNDCLIP

OPERATOR: IS this an emergency? Can you hold?

WOMAN: It’s emergency, no.

OPERATOR: What is the emergency?

WOMAN: My daughter is stuck in a fricken tree. There’s gators surrounding her. We can’t get her out. She’s 15!

OPERATOR: One moment, please. And you said she’s stuck in a tree?

WOMAN: She’s in the tree to get out of the water. There’s gators on land and in the water right under her.

The woman's daughter, Jordan Broderick, had been on a raft, floating on the creek, when a hissing alligator arrived. According to WESH 2 News, the teenager tried to escape, but wasn't able to make it to shore, so she climbed a tree. Here's part of that station's local news report, beginning with a clip from a sergeant with the local sheriff's office.

SOUNDCLIP

SARGENT: There was a low-hanging tree. She was able to climb up that tree and get out of the water, and stay high enough to where the gator couldn't get her.

REPORTER: By the time the deputies were able get to the remote area of the Ocala National Forest, the girl had been clinging to the tree for 30 minutes, was tired, and screaming her lungs out. The deputies shot the gator in the head. It disappeared under the water, and is presumed dead.

SARGENT: Right now, they're really territorial, and you have to be careful any time a year. But it's ended mating season. So right now, they're really protective of their young, they’re really protective of their nest.

REPORTER: Experts say before you go swimming, look around, check for gators, especially the shoreline, where they often lay eggs. Because experts say if you're swimming, playing, rafting in any kind of water in Florida, chances are there's an alligator.

CH: That was WESH 2’s Michelle Meridith reporting on a deputy who killed a gator that was threatening a teenage girl. According to the deputy's report, He wasn't able to scare the creature away, which is why he shot it.

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July 3, 2018 episode transcript

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