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The AIH transcript for January 02, 2025

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STEPHANIE SKENDERIS: Hello, I'm Stephanie Skenderis, sitting in for Nil Köksal.

CH: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[theme]

CH: Tonight:

SS: Plan of counter-attack. After yesterday's deadly attack, New Orleans' former chief of police explains what the city is doing to protect itself -- and to protect thousands of football fans headed to the Sugar Bowl.

CH: Trial by fire. Part of Vancouver Island's historic Telegraph Cove has burned to the ground; our guest describes the damage done to one of the region's most important ecotourism hubs -- and the building where she was married.

SS: Anyone’s game. R. Renee Hess has loved hockey her whole adult life, but it didn't always love her -- or other fans -- back. So she set out to create spaces within the sport for racialized players and fans alike.

CH: On the day of the World Junior hockey quarterfinals, we'll revisit her October interview with Nil about writing a book based on her conversations with coaches, sports reporters, hockey parents, and legends of the game.

SS: A light touch. We'll wrap up our annual slate of holiday readings with the tale of A Parakeet Named Dreidel -- on this, the final night of the Festival of Lights.

CH: That short story encourages us all to embrace the unexpected. Even if it's the arrival of a tropical bird that speaks Yiddish on a snowy Hanukkah night.

CH: As it Happens, the Thursday edition. Radio that knows sometimes you gotta wing it.

Part 1: New Orleans: Sugar Bowl, Telegraph Cove Fire, Reading: A Parakeet Named Dreidel

New Orleans: Sugar Bowl

Guest: Ron Serpas

CH: Bourbon Street in New Orleans reopened today -- a day after a deadly New Years attack in which 14 people killed. At a press conference, the FBI announced that they now believe the man who rammed his truck into a crowd in the early hours of New Years Day was inspired by ISIS, but appears to have acted alone. He was killed by police in a shoot-out. Addressing reporters, Mayor LaToya Cantrell acknowledged the victims of yesterday's attack.

SOUNDCLIP

LATOYA CANTRELL: The FBI was able to clear Bourbon Street. And what that meant also for me and this city was that we were able to remove our victims, identify them, and notify their families. Real reverence; they mattered. The families matter and matter to the city of New Orleans. I walk by each one, and I did the sign across in my own way, because reverence again is important.

CH: That's New Orleans mayor, LaToya Cantrell. But the focus today wasn't strictly on the victims or the investigation -- it was also on efforts to prepare for this afternoon's annual Sugar Bowl college football game, which was supposed to take place yesterday. Louisiana Governor Jeff Landry explained why he believes it's important for the game to go ahead:

SOUNDCLIP

JEFF LANDRY: This city will be back. We'll be open to family, and friends, and loved ones who want some time to relax from the pressures of life. And so today, we're going to have us a Sugar Bowl. We're going to enjoy ourselves. We're going to keep those, again, who have lost loved ones in mind. And we're going to get onto the business of this city and this great country. With that, I'll take any questions.

CH: Louisiana Governor Jeff Landry, speaking this afternoon. Ron Serpas is the former chief of the New Orleans Police Department, and a current professor of criminology and justice at Loyola University. We reached him in New Orleans, this afternoon.

SS: Ron, what message do you think the mayor and governor were trying to send today?

RON SERPAS: I think two very important messages. The mayor's message was the recognition of loss of life and injury and how traumatizing that is to families, friends, communities, and the city of New Orleans as a whole. And I think the message the governor was sending is one that's equally important in that a return to normalcy of economics, normalcy of social interaction, a normalcy of belief that you are safe is one of the most important ways to defeat terroristic intent. Terrorism tries to interrupt those three basic functions of a society for their own ideology. And when able, and when competent, it's important to push back and say we are a safe nation. We are a city that can communicate, and coordinate, and to enjoy each other's company. Those are very, both of those messages are very important.

SS: We also got some new details from the FBI today on their investigation, saying they're now confident the attacker acted alone. And that's based on interviews, social media activity, call records, and an initial review of his electronic devices. That is despite officials saying yesterday that he may have had accomplices. The FBI also says they recovered two improvised explosive devices in coolers, which our guest on this program yesterday alluded to. So, as thousands of people prepare to gather in New Orleans again, how confident are you in their assessment that the city is safe?

RS: Well, I think it's, I would be very confident that they had 24 hours to look at a tremendous amount of information generally gathered from video cameras. The French Quarter is a walking neighborhood. It has businesses and residences who have video cameras, many of them, as do the government. They had chances to look at that. They had an opportunity to look more deeply into the offender's personal electronic equipment. So, I don't think that the FBI would have come to that conclusion or that statement if they did not have great confidence. Secondly, the city of New Orleans is one of the most amazing places to have a big event because it is a walking city. The French Quarter is full of businesses, and people, and residents. The Downtown Development District, the Central Business District, is heavily populated by residences, restaurants, business, and that's right across the street from the Superdome. So, I think that people who are familiar with how New Orleans manages these major events recognizes that there's three or four things that have to be done. Securing the dome is a building. It doesn't move. It only has so many entrances, exits, and you can do that pretty strong with target hardening. You have to consider the pedestrian traffic from the French Quarter Business District to the dome back to the French Quarter Business District. You have to consider that there will be people in the crowd, every crowd, all crowds that are looking to conduct crime, looking to pickpockets, looking to rob people, looking to steal cars. And then the fourth thing that overlaps all of this is moving tens of thousands of people in the in the Downtown Development District, in the Central Business District in the French Quarter while businesses and residences are trying to operate a normal life and a normal business. And the city of New Orleans does this year in and year out. And I think a lot of people will recognize they're pretty good at that. The unpredictability nature of a lone wolf is common throughout the country. This horrible tragedy happened here. But lone wolves, by definition, operate in a way where it's very difficult to predict what they're going to do.

SS: But how rare is it to see a city host such a large event so soon after something like this?

RS: I think the point is from the very first thing the governor said is that when we can feel comfortable that we can conduct our life in a normal way, in this case, it's a big college football weekend, or if it was a Mardi Gras parade, or if it was a Thanksgiving Day parade, it sends the message that we are going to be a community and a society that can stand up to terror, and that won't allow terror to change our lives when we feel like we can control safety to the best of our ability and we can encourage people to interact with one another.

SS: So, so, as we heard yesterday, police were out in large numbers on New Year's Eve, and yet this still happened. What kinds of challenges do the FBI, do the police face today as they try to ensure everything goes smoothly?

RS: Part of the process of protecting large events is a visible deterrence, and that would be uniformed police officers. Part of the process of protecting a large event is to have plainclothes officers who are looking for those who possibly are carrying weapons illegally with an ill intent. But in any environment where you have that many people, those who intend to cause conflict can often find a way to do it. You might find this incredibly hard to believe, but myself and other officers on more than one occasion were standing within a block with many uniformed police officers when someone decided they were going to shoot at someone they'd been angry at for some period of time. So, the nature of when people choose to break the law isn't always as predictable as we would hope. But when we can predict it, we can helpfully plan for it.

SS: And then, if we look further ahead, New Orleans is set to host the Super Bowl in just over a month. We've heard Louisiana Governor Jeff Landry repeatedly say the city is ready. But what impact, if any, do you think yesterday's attack will have on security for, for the Super Bowl?

RS: Well, I think any, any time you do a Super Bowl, and I was the chief of police in New Orleans for the last Super Bowl, you're always scanning the environment for any clues and cues of behavior. That's the first thing. The second thing is the Super Bowl is a national safety event, if you will, a national security event. So, there is a tremendous influx of federal resources to inspect cargo that's going into the dome to monitor the interstates and freeways for traffic that's bringing stuff back and forth. The actual facility itself can be locked down in a way which doesn't allow for anything to come in that hasn't already been checked or doesn't allow for anything to come in after the doors have been closed. So, the Super Bowl is a very large event that includes tremendous federal, local, and state resources. The Sugar Bowl is more of a state and local resource. And then around the city of New Orleans, you have five or six very well-equipped, very professional sheriff's departments that come and assist with the opportunities for safety.

SS: Ron, obviously, you have deep expertise on this, but I understand there's a personal connection to that. Your family has served in the city's police force since the '40s. I imagine you might have family out today keeping people safe. We know that two police officers were injured in yesterday's attack. Does that make it resonate any differently with you?

RS: Well, it does. Our family began in 1940, and I still have two family members that are working on the police department today. And both of them work in the French Quarter. I worked in the French Quarter most of my career. But I think what gives me a lot of confidence is what you saw and what we all saw. Police officers run to danger. Police officers do not run away from danger. And I'm proud of the members of my family who have continued this tradition for 80 years. And I'm proud of the men and women who do it every day.

SS: And what's your message to people who might be feeling scared after everything that happened yesterday?

RS: I hope that they will recognize that the best efforts are being taken. That recognition of opportunity to improve is a mandatory function of American policing and policing across the globe. And we want to be able to enjoy our life without fear. And that's what we hope to accomplish.

SS: Okay, Ron, thanks so much.

RS: Thank you.

CH: Ron Serpas is the former chief of the New Orleans Police Department. We reached him in New Orleans.

[synth]

Telegraph Cove Fire

Guest: Emily Gatto

CH: The smoke has cleared -- and the damage in Telegraph Cove, B.C. is being assessed. Residents of the small community on the north end of Vancouver Island are reeling after a fire on New Year's Eve. The cause of the fire is still under investigation -- but its impact is easy to see: its historic boardwalk and several landmarks -- including a beloved whale museum -- have burned to ash. Emily Gatto is a former employee at the Whale Interpretive Centre, which housed a large collection of marine mammal skeletons. We reached her in the nearby town of Port Hardy, British Columbia.

SS: Emily, when you heard about this fire, you rushed over to Telegraph Cove. What were you thinking as you headed there?

EMILY GATTO: Well, at that point, we knew that the Killer Whale Cafe and Old Sultry Pub were on fire. At that point, I didn't know yet if the Whale Interpretive Centre was also affected. But I, they are, those buildings are close together. So, our main concern was had it spread?

SS: And then, can you describe the extent of the damage you saw?

EG: It's pretty substantial, although thanks to the local volunteer firefighter teams up here who were amazing, it wasn't as bad as it may have been. But the Telegraph Cove restaurant, so the Killer Whale Cafe and Old Sultry Pub, that's gone. The Wastell House, which was one of the historic homes on the boardwalk, that is gone except for the chimneys. And then, the Whale Interpretive Centre is, is gone. And the boardwalk that was underneath all of those structures is compromised as well and is missing in some places down, like, open into the water. In other places, just charred. But yeah, so essentially, the farthest end of the boardwalk is, is destroyed.

SS: Okay. So destroyed, charred, like what does it look like? Is everything just kind of black and burnt?

EG: Yeah, it's flat. It's, it's heartbreaking. Those, the restaurant building and the Whale Interpretive Centre building were the two larger buildings on the boardwalk, the rest are just kind of little cabins. And so, those kind of if you're looking across Telegraph Cove took up a large part of your line of vision and they're just flattened. So it looks like the kind of the line of the boardwalk and everything is, is totally altered. And it's, it's very jarring. It's just a black hillside.

SS: Wow.

EG: Yeah.

SS: What was in the Whale Interpretive Centre?

EG: The Whale Interpretive Centre housed an amazing collection that had been accumulated by Jim and Mary Barrowman over the last 30 years, and it was marine mammals, specifically specimens, the kind of highlight of which was a 60-foot fin whale skeleton that had been re-articulated and was, skeletons were strung from the ceiling, so they looked like they were swimming above you. And so, a whole bunch of skeletons were lost along with skulls, many other artifacts, artifacts from the whaling in this area that was stopped in the 1960s. And so, all of those types of artifacts which were are, you know, irreplaceable, they are gone. And so, that's the biggest loss for me personally.

SS: What was that like to stand in the museum amidst those artifacts and those skeletons?

EG: Oh, I mean, it was, you know, incredible. And, of course, we're not able to stand there now because everything's, you know, not safe and cordoned off, which is, you know, the way to go. But when it was there, you know, I, my husband and I met there. We got married there. You know, it was very much my home. And it was an incredible perspective of these amazing animals that most people never see. You don't get to walk underneath whales. And so, it was really an amazing place for people from all over the world to come to learn about these incredible creatures. And that, of course, was the, was the Whale Interpretive Centre's goal was, was to kind of inspire people, and educate people, and just get people excited about conservation for these animals. So, to have that gone is, is gut wrenching, frankly.

SS: Yeah. And then, there is the personal aspect of it for you, too. You were talking about you, and your husband met there and got married.

EG: Yeah. Yeah.

SS: What, what memories are you reflecting on now?

EG: Yeah, it's still very surreal that it isn't there. Like, as a very small child, would go into the museum and then started working there. You know, when I was volunteering when I was 14 and working summers full-time when I was 16. And then, my husband and I met in 2019, and were married there in 2023. My sister also is a long time employee there, worked summers. And she and I, for both, it was obviously a summer job, but it was our passion. And so, you know, she and I and Jim and Mary Barrowman, who are like family to us, we've all put so much work into this collection over the years, building skeletons, fundraising, maintaining, educating. And so, for that to be gone just doesn't even feel real at this point still. We're still, I think, all trying to process that. It does kind of feel like it was my house that burned down in a way.

SS: One of our producers spoke to Mary Barrowman. As you've been saying, she's the head of the Whale Interpretive Centre. She told us that the outpouring of support from across Canada and beyond has been overwhelming. Does that response surprise you?

EG: Not at all. I know for my sister and I, who were working there, we were not surprised at all. We met tourists every day, and we also ran the social media for the Whale Interpretive Centre. And, and I think we knew how many people loved the Whale Interpretive Centre, both when they were there in person and from afar.

SS: And this is a community that does rely on tourism, right? I mean, now is the offseason, so fewer people. I mean, I guess it's a good thing nobody was injured.

EG: Absolutely. It is. It's really lucky, yeah.

SS: Yeah. But how big a hit is this?

EG: It's, it's enormous, but it's huge for the North Island as a whole. So, this is a huge draw for tourism for folks across Canada and the United States, but a large group from Europe every summer. And so, that brings a lot to the small communities up here on the North Island. And so, that will certainly be something that I imagine will be felt. Obviously, it's going to take time to, hopefully, rebuild. But I think that, in the meantime, will really be felt for sure because it is a major draw.

SS: You mentioned there some of your other family members who are in Telegraph Cove. How is your family doing?

EG: I think we're all in a state of shock. We're all very grateful that the damage wasn't more profound, You know, that it was able to be kept to the one side of the boardwalk. And that's amazing because all but one of the houses are okay. And that's huge. And it's folks, you know, stay in those houses. That's the main part of the resort is the accommodation, is those historical homes on the boardwalk. So, to have those mostly still intact, we're very grateful. And we're very grateful that it was the off-season and that no one was hurt. And so, that for us, I think, are kind of our our silver linings right now. You know, had it been a busy part of the summer when there is hundreds of people, that would have been absolutely terrifying. More so than it already is. And so, I think just a little bit in limbo right now, and just trying to absorb it, honestly. Hopefully, my husband and I and my sister and my family involved going forward with Jim and Mary Barrowman, and, and not sure exactly what form that will take. But certainly, there will be a Whale Interpretive Centre again, whether or not that's in the same spot or, hopefully, still in Telegraph Cove. But will, you know, we're really hopeful and looking forward to kind of seeing what this next chapter is. And my Uncle Gordie has an incredible knack for, you know, kind of keeping up this beautiful historic place and building in a historic fashion that I'm sure eventually will be appreciated by guests in whatever that looks like.

SS: Emily, thanks so much.

EG: Yeah, no worries.

CH: Emily Gatto is a former employee at the Whale Interpretive Centre. She was in Port Hardy, British Columbia.

[ambient]

Reading: A Parakeet Named Dreidel

CH: At the start of a new year, it's possible to feel that anything is possible. You can even convince yourself that no matter what you'll be able to remain optimistic -- at least for the first few weeks! No amount of doom scrolling will get you down! But if life has taught us anything over the last few...forever, it's impossible to know what is coming next. And our next holiday reading suggests that the best approach is to just roll with it. Even if a tropical bird appears on your snowy windowsill. On this final night of the Festival Of Lights, we present a reading of that story by Josh Dolgin. You may know him better as his musical alter ego, Socalled, who's responsible for the reworked As It Happens theme music that kicks our show off every night. Here's Josh now, with A Parakeet Named Dreidel.

Reading:

JOSH DOLGIN: It happened about ten years ago in Brooklyn, New York. All day long, a heavy snow was falling. Towards evening, the sky cleared and a few stars appeared. A frost set in. It was the eighth day of Hanukkah, and my silver Hanukkah lamp stood on the windowsill with all candles burning. It was mirrored in the window pane, and I imagined another lamp outside. My wife, Esther, was frying potato pancakes. I sat with my son David at a table and played dreidel with him. Suddenly, David cried out, “Papa, look.” And he pointed to the window. I looked up and saw something that seemed unbelievable. Outside on the windowsill, stood a yellow -green bird, watching the candles. In a moment, I understood what had happened. A parakeet had escaped from its home somewhere, had flown out into the cold street and landed on my windowsill, perhaps attracted by the light.

JD: A parakeet is native to warm climate, and it cannot stay in the cold and frost for very long. I immediately took steps to save the bird from freezing. First, I carried away the Hanukkah lamp so that the bird would not burn itself when entering. Then I opened the window, and with a quick wave of my hand, shooed the parakeet inside. The whole thing took only a few seconds. In the beginning, the frightened bird flew from wall to wall. It hit itself against the ceiling, and for a while, hung from a crystal prism on the chandelier. David tried to calm it. “Don't be afraid, little bird. We are your friends.” Presently, the bird flu toward David and landed on his head as though it had been trained and was accustomed to people. David began to dance and laugh with joy. My wife in the kitchen heard the noise and came out to see what had happened. When she saw the bird on David's head, she asked, “Where did you get a bird all of a sudden?” “Mama, it just came to our window.” “To the window in the middle of winter?” “Papa saved its life.”

JD: The bird was not afraid of us. David lifted his hand to his forehead and the bird settled on his finger. Esther placed a saucer of millet in a dish of water on the table, and the parakeet ate and drank. It saw the dreidel and began to push it with its beak. David exclaimed, “Look, the bird plays dreidel.”

JD: David soon began to talk about buying a cage for the bird, and also about giving it a name. But Esther and I reminded him that the bird was not ours. We would try to find the owners who probably missed their pet and were worried about what had happened to it in the icy weather. David said, “Meanwhile, let's call it dreidel.” That night, Dreidel slept on a picture frame, and woke us in the morning with its singing. The bird stood on the frame, its plumage brilliant in the purple light of the rising sun, shaking as in prayer, whistling, twittering and talking all at the same time. The parakeet must have belonged to a house where Yiddish was spoken, because we heard it say, “Zeldele, geh schlofen” (Zeldele, go to sleep), and these simple words uttered by the tiny creature filled us with wonder and delight.

JD: The next day, I posted a notice in the elevators of the neighbourhood houses. It said that we had found a Yiddish speaking parakeet. When a few days passed and no one called, I advertised in the newspaper for which I wrote. But a week went by and no one claimed the bird. Only then did dreidel become ours. We bought a large cage with all the fittings and toys that a bird might want. But because Hanukkah is a festival of freedom, we resolved never to lock the cage. Dreidel was free to fly around the house whenever he pleased. The man at the pet shop had told us that the bird was a male.

JD: Nine years passed and dreidel remained with us. We became more attached to him from day to day. In our house, Dreidel learnt scores of Yiddish, English and Hebrew words. David taught him to sing a Hanukkah song, and there was always a wooden dreidel in the cage for him to play with. When I wrote on my Yiddish typewriter, Dreidel would cling to the index finger of either my right or left hand, jumping acrobatically with every letter I wrote. Esther often joked that Dreidel was helping me write, and that he was entitled to half my earnings. Our son David grew up and entered college. One winter night, he went to a Hanukkah party. He told us that he would be home late, and Esther and I went to bed early. We had just fallen asleep when the telephone rang. It was David. As a rule, he is a quiet and composed young man. This time he spoke so excitedly that we could barely understand what he was saying. It seemed that David had told the story of our parakeet to his fellow students at the party, and a girl named Zelda Rosen had exclaimed, “I am Zeldele! We lost our parakeet nine years ago.” Zelda and her parents live not far from us, but they had never seen the notice in the newspaper or the ones posted in elevators. Zelda was now a student and a friend of David's. She had never visited us before, although our son often spoke about her to his mother.

JD: We slept little that night. The next day, Zelda and her parents came to see their long lost pet. Zelda was a beautiful and gifted girl. David often took her to the theatre and to museums. Not only did the Rosen's recognize their bird, but the bird seemed to recognize his former owners. The Rosen's used to call him Tsip-Tsip. And when the parakeet heard them say Tsip-Tsip, he became flustered and started to fly from one member of the family to the other, screeching and flapping his wings. Both Zelda and her mother cried when they saw their beloved bird alive. The father stared silently. And then he said, “We have never forgotten our Tsip-Tsip.”

JD: I was ready to return the parakeet to his original owners, but Esther and David argued that they could never part with Dreidel. It was also not necessary because that day, David and Zelda decided to get married after their graduation from college. So Dreidel is still with us, always eager to learn new words and new games. When David and Zelda marry, they will take Dreidel to their new home. Zelda has often said, “Dreidel was our matchmaker.”

JD: On Hanukkah, he always gets a gift. A mirror, a ladder, a bathtub, a swing or a jingle bell. He has even developed a taste for potato pancakes, as befits a parakeet named Dreidel.

CH: The voice of Josh Dolgan. He's the multi-talented Montreal artist, better known by his stage name Socalled, whose version of the As It Happens theme music you hear every night on the show. He was reading A Parakeet Named Dreidel by Isaac Bashevis Singer.

[folk rock]

Part 2: Encore: R. Renee Hess

Encore: R. Renee Hess

CH: For families across Canada, it's a tradition to watch the World Juniors every holiday season. Right now in Ottawa, the best young stars are representing their countries in that annual tournament; tonight, Canada goes up against the Czech Republic in the quarterfinals. So, it's a good time to return to Nil's feature conversation with R. Renee Hess. She's a hockey fan who published a collection of essays last year, called Blackness Is a Gift I Can Give Her: On Race, Community, and Black Women in Hockey. In that book, she shares interviews with hockey players, hockey parents, NHL employees, and journalists. And also writes about her own journey creating a space for Black women and girls in the sport she loves -- a sport that, as she writes in the book, doesn't always love her back. R. Renee Hess is the founder of the non-profit Black Girl Hockey Club. In October she talked with Nil about her new book. Here's an encore presentation of that conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

NK: Renee, hello. It's so great to have you on the show, welcome to As It Happens.

R. RENEE HESS: Hi, thank you so much for having me, Nil.

NK: You know, I'm looking at the book right now. It has been described as a love letter to Black women. You've described it as a book for Black women to share stories, their own stories, that haven't been heard before. So, I wonder now that the book is out and it's on shelves, how are they responding to seeing their stories in print? Obviously, some of them are famous, but many are not. So how are they feeling?

RRH: You know what? I hope that they're feeling good about it. I have only been hearing good things, but I know a lot of good people. So I'm hoping that, you know, the stories are shining through and the narratives are, you know, talking to, for themselves and allowing, you know, folks who are reading this, whether they're Black women or not, to find some solace in the stories of community and joy around sport that we all love.

NK: And I wonder how you're processing it all, seeing your book on shelves now.

RRH: What a good question. I have been self-isolating a little bit this week, staying close to home, just talking to people who have been reaching out with words of affirmation, just really kind of enjoying the moment. It's really kind of surreal for my mom or my sister to call me up and tell me, you know, Target shipped their copy of the book or they've got it from Barnes and Noble or Amazon. And it's a little surreal for me, but I'm just enjoying the moment, watching it kind of all unfold in front of me.

NK: The book is obviously about your love of hockey, your complicated relationship with the sport, as others describe it similarly as well. It's also filled with examples of what the Black Girl Hockey Club has done for this sport. What has the sport done for you?

RRH: Hockey has given me so many amazing people in my life and I talk about it a lot in the book. You know, I wouldn't have even met my best friend, Shireen Ahmed, if it wasn't for the sport of hockey. I wouldn't have written this book if it wasn't for the sport of hockey. And to have such an amazing community around me as I do with, you know, the folks over at Black Girl Hockey Club without the sport of hockey. And, you know, just like every other hockey fan, it brings me immense joy and a little bit of pain every year around October through May. You know, I love hockey just as much as any other fan. And so, I'm really excited for hockey season to start and get back into the groove with my teams and my friends and my group chats, right.

NK: [Chuckles] Yeah, it's gearing up. I know other hockey fans who are really excited as well. You didn't grow up; we should tell our listeners watching or playing hockey. So, what was the moment as an adult that you decided you were going to be not just a fan, but a full on hockey superfan?

RRH: I came to hockey as an adult, like you said, but as soon as I saw the sport live, I was hooked. And I think so many other fans can relate because, you know, I had casually watched the game on television and listened to some games on the radio, as one does. But as soon as I walked into that arena for the very first time and, you know, smelled the ice and saw the players live doing their thing and how fast the game is and how skilled the players are. I was hooked. It was a passion turned obsession, as it happens sometimes in fandom, right.

NK: Yeah. So, there's that electricity. You feel that love, that obsession, as you said. But there's also learning very quickly, as you've written about that you couldn't be just a hockey fan. You're Black, you're a female hockey fan. And so, that first NHL game you were able to attend, it was between the Dallas Stars and the Anaheim Ducks. What happened?

RRH: You know what, a lot of great things happened that game, right. I got to see the Dallas Stars lose lives for the first time. It wouldn't be the last time, but it was the first time.

NK: That's a true superfan talking right there.

RRH: [laughter] Well, you know, as an aside, I've only seen the Dallas Stars win once and I've seen them play a dozen times. And the one time I saw them win was against the Pittsburgh Penguins, which is my other favourite team. So, it was a sore win for me, but, you know, I'll take it just the same. But that very first time I went to see a hockey game live, a couple really impactful things happened to me that I write about in the book. And the first one was outside the arena. I met some super fans in line, some little old ladies who were excited about the game and excited about Tyler Sagan, as we all are. It was a really joyful moment of camaraderie with some other fans that got me excited for what I was going to be experiencing. And then I went inside and I got to watch warmups, as one does. And then I had a kind of a negative experience with some young men who were kind of teasing me a bit about my joy around the game. You know, I take both of those experiences away with me as a learning experience, as kind of the spectrum of what I would be encountering in those spaces as time moved forward.

NK: They were telling you basically to calm down, relax, don't be so excited.

RRH: Yeah. You know, I ran into some kids who were doing the same thing as me at the glass, you know, cameras out, big grins on their face, slapping each other on the back, excited to see their team play. But when I went up, you know, a middle aged Black woman with the same level of joy, I got shut down pretty quickly by these young men telling me, calm down, it's not such a big deal, you know. And it made me feel bad. It made me feel confused. But it's not a story that is always top of the mind for me whenever I think about that first hockey game.

NK: Yeah. And you, it didn't deter you that negative moment. You went to your next game; I think four days later. You didn't waste any time.

RRH: I sure didn't. And I don't usually. Right. [giggles] Yeah. We went to that game in Anaheim. I think it was like on a Thursday or Friday night and then let the weekend pass. And I went to another game with a friend out in Los Angeles to see the Dallas Stars play again. Me and those little old ladies following, you know, The Stars up and down their West Coast tour. They lost again; I will say. [laughter] But it was just as fun as I hoped it would be. When I saw them play that second time.

NK: You write in the book, quote, Everyone knows hockey is a very white sport, unquote. The numbers certainly back up that statement. In 2022, the NHL released a diversity and inclusion report, and it found 84 per cent of employees across the NHL and its teams were white, 3.74 per cent were Black. You've worked with teams, equipment companies. Are the people in power at this stage Renee, committed to change?

RRH: I hope so. Right. And that's going to be something that I say a lot, behind my words there's always a lot of hope. I call myself an eternal, an unfortunate optimist because I can't help but have hope. There are voices just like mine in hockey all across different platforms, you know, whether they're journalists, whether they're players, whether they're workers who are speaking loudly and proudly asking for representation. And I hope that the people in power are able to recognize that, to hear it and to, you know, utilize us in those spaces. There of course, there are folks, people of colour in positions of power in the National Hockey League and across the league. We just saw the Seattle Kraken hire the first woman coach ever to be behind the bench and she kicked off the season just this week. And so, I know that there are folks who are committed to shifting hockey culture from what it has been traditionally for the past hundred plus years to something that is more representative of Canadian and American culture at large. But, you know, hockey is a sport that moves quickly on the ice, but at a glacial pace up in the front office. And so, you know, it's going to take a continuous push, I think, from not just people of colour, but from our allies in those spaces as well, reminding those leaders that we do need to shift and to change with the times or else we will get lost in the shuffle of, you know, organized sports because those other sports are shifting and changing. We have to as well.

NK: You are listening to As It Happens. I'm Nil Köksal. And our guest today is Renee Hess, the founder of Black Girl Hockey Club and the author of a new book of essays called "Blackness is a Gift I Can Give Her". When the members of the club get together to watch a game. Set the scene. What's the atmosphere like?

RRH: My gosh. Should we go into an arena with so much swagger, you'd think that we were Beyoncé and her backup singer.

NK: Love it, Yes.

RRH: We go in and folks are, you know, looking at us wondering, is that the, is that a musical act? Is that Lizzo? What's happening? Right. And so, we walk into that arena with so much swagger and joy just to be there. There's nothing quite like going to a game with Black Girl Hockey Club because the energy is so... We're so excited to be there. We're proud that we could be in those spaces that we can get together, that we can show folks that, you know, we enjoy the game of hockey. We not only deserve to be here, but we're here, you know, with the love and the blessing of the team that we're visiting. And not to brag, but BGHC has a great track record of wins when we go to an arena, so, you know, we go to cheer on the home team, oftentimes the home team will take home the W that day. So not saying, you know, that we've got anything to do with it, but you know, if you're a hockey fan, that superstition is going to grab hold.

NK: Absolutely. But when you were describing you all walking and the swagger, in my mind, the movie was like slo mo, you're all kitted out. Super glam.

RRH: [laughter] Yep. You got it.

NK: That's the movie. That's the video playing in my mind, as you described that. We have a clip of two players well-known and certainly featured in your book, Sarah Nurse and Saroya Tinker. I want to play a little bit of what they said about the role your organization is playing in opening doors for young girls.

SOUNDCLIP

SARAH NURSE: Not only do they want to get the girls on the ice, but they want to make sure that fans, that parents, that supporters also have an amazing experience. And I think that's what separates it from other areas. The fact that you have a mentorship program and are able to still have those connections and those relationships with those girls who like, you're going to start working with them at 10 years old and continue to work with them through their 20s. Like it's so necessary and it's something that I know had you or I had growing up, I think would have been game changing for us. And would have been such a neat thing and an impactful thing to have. And so, organizations like Black Girl Hockey Club are doing the work. Yeah, you are doing the work.

SAROYA TINKER: And I think the thing that a lot of people don't realize too is that we're just a community of people. I'm not looking to put these girls in a box and be like, You're a triple-A player and you're house league. Like these girls just love the game of hockey and we're doing something with you now, Nursey Night. So, I'm super excited to announce that.

NK: I'm sure you already know, Renee, how those two players feel about you and the organization, but hearing that, is it validating, even now?

RRH: Of course, it is validating to hear gold medal winning Sarah Nurse say that she finds value in something that I helped create. And you know, the work that Saroya does in and around ice hockey in so many different ways to know that she, you know, after she graduated from Yale saw that potential and engaged herself in our community right from the start and wanted to be part of it and saw something that not only she could learn and grow in, but also push to be even better with Black Girl Hockey Club Canada that we launched in 2022 up in Toronto with her as our executive director. So, it is really validating to hear those things. And also it makes me happy to know that the vision of Black Girl Hockey Club is clear to people like Sarah Nurse, who have, you know, come into our community on her own, you know, as a Black woman hockey player who had never played with other Black women who had is the only Black woman still to go to the Olympics and play on that level of a hockey stage. And to hear her say that, you know, she understands that it's not just for her, but it's also for her dad, who she brought out to a game with Black Girl Hockey Club in Toronto when we were there back in 2021. It makes me really proud to hear her kind of synthesizing that information and applying it to herself and her own life and what she wants to get out of it. Because ultimately, that's what all of our Black Girl Hockey Club scholarship winners and members, that's what we want for them, is to be able to play hockey as long as they want to play hockey. We don't need them to go to the big show in order to be important in that space.

NK: This book is obviously for young players, Renee, but also hockey parents, hockey momma's in particular, there is a chapter called just that. And you interview men throughout the book as well. In that chapter you speak about hockey player Joel Ward. He gets emotional and it's emotional to read what he says in those passages about his own mother that she is all in supporting him, making sacrifices so he can become a great NHL player. But he also talks about how he would see her, you know, sometimes not included sitting in the stands in a corner. Why did you want to make sure you had a chapter devoted to those hockey momma's?

RRH: I think the Hockey Momma's chapter was the first one that I wrote in my mind because those were the consistent conversations that I was having with mothers of Black hockey players and learning about their experiences, whether they're Black women, whether they are non-black women or men in those spaces, how they felt watching their Black daughters play the game of ice hockey or Joel's case, their Black sons, how they navigated through those spaces, as you know, that parent in the stands. Everyone has a different story. But there's so many similarities in what Joel Ward talks about his mother experiencing when he was a young hockey player to a point where she didn't even feel comfortable enough to go watch him play as he aged in the game because of the vitriol that she would experience over here in the stands pointed towards him. And as a parent, that's a really rough situation to be in. We want to protect our kids from harm. And hockey is a harming space sometimes, whether it's physically right out there on the ice or emotionally and mentally for some folks in marginalized communities. But it's a testament to Joel's tenacity that he, you know, loved the game enough, had enough support around him to push through those types of experiences and come out on the other side as an amazing hockey player with such great experiences. As you know, as he looked back, retired in our conversation.

NK: I wonder how you're feeling, what you're making of all of the attention that the professional women's hockey league, the PWHL is getting now.

RRH: I think it's amazing. You know, in the book I talk about the evolution of the women's league and the game, the professional game for women as something that I had been keeping my eye on as a professor at a local college. And the conversations that I would have with my students about women's sports. Then as a fan, you know, watching the women's league evolve from the, you know, the two leagues to the one league to a league with this name and a federation with that name. It's been really exciting to see the PWHL take hold in professional hockey in the last year, even though, you know, I was just having a conversation about the league yesterday, hopping out the gate, you know, without jerseys, without team names, just really wanting to get on the ice. And it's a testament to those women's passion for the game that they were willing to kind of take that flak and get chirped a bit because they didn't have team names in order to play and in order to get out there and show the world what they had to offer. The fact that they are so in love with the game of hockey over at the PWHL, it shines through the work that they're doing and I think that it invigorates the cities where they're in. Now I'm in California, US and we don't have a team close to us at all. So, I'm still waiting for my opportunity to root for the home team of, on the women's, on the women's side. But it's been so exciting to watch. And I'm looking forward to the, you know, the second season to see what they've got going on. We've got actually one of our, The Black Girl Hockey Club. U.S. board members, Sophie Jaques, just happened to win the championship last year. And so, yeah, no big deal. We've been kind of teasing her all summer long, giving her a hard time about being, you know, inaugural season champ. But it's just been really fun to watch. It's really cool to see my friends out there having a good time and getting paid for it. So, I love it and I'm excited for what they got going on. Go Toronto.

NK: Thank you. We appreciate it.

RRH: I love being up there. And you cannot be in Toronto without experiencing a little bit of hockey. So yeah, it is definitely a hockey town.

NK: And the pain that you know well of hockey. [laughter] [RRH: Oh, Yeah]. We're acquainted over here with that. Beyond hockey, though, as you well know, Renee, it's also been such a huge year for the WNBA. But as that fan base and the excitement has grown, Black players are also facing racist abuse. And there are questions and concerns about how women in that sport are covered, Black women in particular. I want to play a clip from Connecticut Sun Forward Alyssa Thomas. She was speaking recently about what some athletes are enduring.

SOUNDCLIP

ALYSSA THOMAS: Honestly, it's been a lot of nonsense. I think in my 11 year career, I've never experienced the racial comments from the Indiana Fever fan base. We've been professional throughout the whole entire thing, but I've never been called the things that I've been called on social media, and there's no place for it. And, you know, basketball is headed in a great direction. But no, we don't want fans that are going to degrade us and call us racial names. Something needs to be done. Whether it's, you know, them checking their fans or this league checking it. There's no time for it anymore.

NK: There are layers of responsibility that I hear at least there, Renee. But let's start with fans. What role should they play in culture change and behaving appropriately?

RRH: You know what, I honestly want to start the other way because there's got to be policy that protects players and that comes from the top, something that fans must adhere to or else they face consequences because we can self-police all we want. But there of course are going to be large swaths of fans who are not appreciative of the shift in focus from, you know, the men's professional league to the women's professional league. Because, look, the focus is there, right? The WNBA is shining and they have been for years and the public is catching up, right, mainstream sports, they're catching up. And with that attention and that limelight is going to come, so much negativity. Of course, it is. But it's up to the people in charge. It's up to the arena policies and league policies to make sure that fans understand that that type of actions, those types of actions are not welcome at the games. And until those policies are created and until those fans feel that they have no recourse when it comes to that type of negativity, then people are going to try to get away with what they can get away with.

NK: The title "Blackness is a Gift I Can Give Her". You have said that the her in that title is your own daughter. What do you hope she takes away from this book and the work you do?

RRH: My daughter Lola, she has come with me to hockey games and she's come with me to Black Girl Hockey Club experiences, which can be very different, right? Going as an individual to a hockey game versus going with that swagger and the whole group. And the first time that I took her to a local hockey game, just her and I, we had lower bowl seats to go see the Dallas Stars in Anaheim. And it was just her and I, and I remember her sitting next to me and whispering to me, Mom, are we the only Black people here? And, you know, I tell her back, Yeah, most likely, except for the folks working here selling us popcorn and beer out in the concourse. We might be the only Black women in this arena right now. And so, she's aware of the very different experiences. So, my hope for her is that she can see that we can make space for ourselves as Black women anywhere we want, and that being Black, although sometimes it can be terrifying to be a Black person in America, it's a gift. It's a blessing. It's a community, and it's a culture that she should be proud to have access to and that she should be excited to learn from and about as she gets older. And it's going to be something for her because she's light skinned and soft, you know, dirty blonde hair that she buys into again and again and again over the years of her life because she could opt out, right. Very quickly, very easily if she felt, you know, a deep desire or fear of being in Black spaces. And so, I, I really hope that she understands through this book and just through the work and being with me, her mom, that it is a gift, you know, to walk in these spaces and to raise your head as a Black woman. It's a wonderful gift that she is blessed with and that she can accept. Time and time again.

NK: Renee, it has been a pleasure speaking with you. Thank you for making time for us and have a fantastic season. A lucky one, I hope.

RRH: You, too. Thank you so much.

NK: Take care, Renee.

RRH: You too. Bye bye.

CH: R. Renee Hess is the author of Blackness Is a Gift I Can Give Her: On Race, Community, and Black Women in Hockey, which is published by McClelland & Stewart. She talked to Nil from Riverside, California, in October.

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