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The Current Transcript for January 2, 2025

Host: Rebecca Zandbergen

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

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JESSICA MOOREHOUSE: A lot of us run on autopilot when it comes to our spending especially. And largely, that's because we haven’t been taught how to properly spend, how to responsibly spend, how to spend in a healthy way that's good for us.

REBECCA ZANDBERGEN: Ring any bells for you? Coming down from the holiday season can be a rough ride on the bank account. This morning, money expert Jessica Moorehouse shares her lessons on how to not just save but spend responsibly in these precarious economic times. Also this morning, Canadian chef Chuck Hughes has been celebrated for his explorations in gourmet cuisine. But his new cookbook is Taking Things Back Home, simple, yet delicious recipes that will have the whole family salivating and won't break the bank. That's in half an hour. And in an hour.

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DEMAR DEROZAN: I remember a lot of guys used to come on the team and all they did was complain. And to me, I was confused. Like what would you complain about? That more so made me want to push and change the narrative of wanting to play here and be here.

RZ: DeMar DeRozan is loved by Canadian basketball fans, and he took that support seriously during his time with the Raptors. That drive to push himself also led him to start a conversation in pro basketball about mental health. Coming up, we revisit our conversation with DeMar DeRozan about sparking change to help himself and others. But we begin in New Orleans with the latest on a deadly attack. I'm Rebecca Zandbergen, in for Matt Galloway, and this is The Current.

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NEW ORLEANS LATEST

Guest: Ben Brasch

RZ: Kimberly Stricklin was visiting New Orleans from her home in Alabama to ring in 2025. She was out on historic Bourbon Street celebrating in the early hours yesterday when she saw a pickup truck drive at high speed into the crowd.

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KIMBERLY STRICKLIN: The guy in the pickup truck just punched the gas and mowed over the barricade. And there were just bodies and the screams. I mean, you can't, you can't think about, you know, unhear that. It was chaos and very, very scary.

RZ: 15 people are dead and dozens injured after the man rammed the truck into the crowd. The police killed the driver in a shootout. The FBI are now investigating the attack as an act of terrorism. Ben Brasch is a reporter for The Washington Post, and he's been covering the attack closely. Ben, good morning.

BEN BRASCH: Hello. Thanks for having me.

RZ: What do we know about who the driver was?

BEN BRASCH: Yeah. So the driver is a 42-year-old man, Mr. Jabbar. He's an American citizen and a US Army vet who was born in Texas.

RZ: That's all we know so far.

BEN BRASCH: We're trying to piece together still. So it appears that he was, Now the influence is unclear, but he was radicalized at some point. And that's evident because there are videos talking about his entrance into an ideology of espousing ISIS language, and there is an Islamic State flag found on the vehicle.

RZ: Do we know more about that radicalization, about his motive? I know the FBI is investigating it as a terrorist attack.

BEN BRASCH: That's right. The FBI is investigating this as a terrorist attack. We don't have a ton more details. This all just unfolded yesterday, of course, but we are looking into that quite heavily.

RZ: Do we know any more about the direction of the FBI's investigation?

BEN BRASCH: So this is different from other attacks because usually, there are, you know, initial rumours that the individual had help. And those get squashed pretty quickly. But indeed, here, the FBI is looking into the possibility that others were involved. There is video that law enforcement officials have told us exists showing a few people, a few men and one woman placing coolers out in the French Quarter where this occurred. And later on, officials found coolers with improvised explosive devices, IEDs in them, along with nails inside the coolers to inflict mass damage.

RZ: How many coolers? Were the FBI specific?

BEN BRASCH: They were specific, and then the number was a bit squishy, but we're talking a few, not dozens.

RZ: What do we know about the victims?

BEN BRASCH: So that information also is coming in piecemeal. The Post has identified some of the deceased by name. One of them was a 27-year-old mother, Ms. Nicole Perez, who worked at a deli in Metairie just outside New Orleans. And her employer told us, you know, that she was just a really, really great woman who was getting her life together, just got her apartment. She would, you know, walk away, you know, pause her responsibilities when she was on break and read to her son in the storage room to try and teach him math and English. Another individual we've identified is Tiger Beck. And Mr. Beck had just recently graduated from Princeton, where he was a kick returner. And he was heading into the finance world. And his mother described him, obviously, as a great young man. As far as the injured, the Israeli Foreign ministry said two Israeli citizens were among the injured. They were at a hospital. And the president of the University of Georgia, who's playing in the big game, the Sugar Bowl, is taking part in town tomorrow, or today, rather, was critically injured.

RZ: I understand that that Sugar Bowl, the college football playoff match has been rescheduled from yesterday to today. How do we know or what have authorities said about the safety precautions that are in place to keep people safe?

BEN BRASCH: Right. Yes. This is the last of the quarterfinal. This is a new playoff system for college football. As for security, the governor, Jeff Landry, has guaranteed people that it will be a safe game. It's been on essentially lockdown. And by that, I mean there are bomb dogs and all sorts of security. There's a, I believe, 100 military police personnel who would come down to further secure the building. And so reporters asked Governor Landry yesterday, okay, what makes you feel safe, certain that it's going to be a safe game? And he said, well, I'm going to be there. And so there you go.

RZ: As in he feels safe enough to be there.

BEN BRASCH: Yes. Personally attending. That's right.

RZ: There was another incident in Las Vegas yesterday. A rented cyber truck exploded outside the Trump Hotel. What do we know about that? And are there any links to this attack in New Orleans?

BEN BRASCH: The links on that are less clear. But yes, there is a cyber truck that exploded outside Trump Hotel. I believe one person died in that explosion. It kind of, you know, onlookers say that they saw smoke come out, and then the explosion hit.

RZ: Have investigators, authorities, have they said there's a link between the two?

BEN BRASCH: They have not linked the two, but my understanding is that some law enforcement officials have said that it is being investigated as a possible terrorist attack. A motive or linkage had not been made, although, obviously, what a coincidence it would be. But again, authorities do not know.

RZ: Tell us what politicians are saying. What kind of response are we hearing to this attack?

BEN BRASCH: Right. So, you know, at the federal level, obviously an outpouring of sadness. You know, New Orleans is a place built on love and revelry. And so for this to happen on such a, you know, was supposed to be a fun day is tragic. At the local level, authorities are praising their law enforcement for acting quickly. There were three police officers who exchanged gunfire with the suspect, and two of them were injured by gunfire and are expected to be okay. Officials are also saying, you know, we need to look at our physical infrastructure in the French Quarter to avoid this happening again because it is the economic engine of New Orleans and Louisiana, that stretch of Bourbon Street.

RZ: Okay. I'm sure we'll learn more today as the hours unfold. Ben Brasch, thank you so much for this.

BEN BRASCH: Thank you, Rebecca.

RZ: Ben Brasch is a reporter with The Washington Post, and he is in Washington, DC.

MONEY BOOK

Guest: Jessica Moorehouse

RZ: You're listening to The Current. I'm Rebecca Zandbergen.

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CLIP: Budget woes. It's much less expensive than the leading Plant-based cereal. You just have to assemble it yourself. We save 50 cents on that purchase. How embarrassing mom is making us wear clothes from Goodwill. But your penny-pinching rampage has gone too far. Don't you think you've had enough fun? Last year, you spent $5,000 on doughnuts. I earned that money.

RZ: Just like for The Simpsons, money is a source of stress for many of us, and scrimping and saving isn't easy. Often, our spending habits and attitudes towards money stem back to our childhoods or even our ancestors. That's what Jessica Moorehouse looks at in her new book. It's titled “Everything But Money: The Hidden Barriers Between You and Financial Freedom”. Jessica Moorehouse is a financial educator and the host of the More Money podcast. She's in Toronto. Good morning. Congratulations and a happy New Year.

JESSICA MOOREHOUSE: Good morning and happy New Year.

RZ: Jessica, how relatable do you think that scene from The Simpsons is?

JESSICA MOOREHOUSE: Oh, it sounds like my childhood. There's definitely points in my childhood where we had to shift grocery stores. I mean, I lived on hand-me-downs. Yeah, it's very relatable.

RZ: Yeah. And why is it important to take stock of what you felt about money and what you learned about money as a kid?

JESSICA MOOREHOUSE: Yeah. So what I predominantly do is teach adults about money management and how to improve their financial lives. And I've been doing this for over a decade. And what I discovered, especially once I became a financial counsellor and was working with people one on one, was that we often think that our issues with money are about money or our choices and we should just be making better choices. Why do we keep on making mistakes? Well, the truth is it's not because of necessarily a lack of finance. That could be one of your issues. But a lot of the people I deal with, that's not the problem. They have a decent income or they have an income or, you know, they think that they're just, they don't have willpower or there's a lack of financial literacy. And usually, those aren't the issues as well. There's something deeper going on. And so that's what I really want to investigate in my book, “Everything But Money”, was why are people stuck in these cycles when they've read all these personal finance books? They listen to my podcast, they're doing the work to educate themselves so they can improve their financial lives, but they still don't know why they're overspending or they're, you know, getting into more debt or they're terrified to invest. Why is that? And so in order to get those answers and then find solutions, you do have to kind of figure out what is your origin story? Where did these things all start? And they all start in childhood.

RZ: Yeah. So we'll break down what you learn a little bit more. But I know you asked readers to sort of consider what their first memory about money is. So what is yours?

JESSICA MOOREHOUSE: Yeah, I share this in the book. And it's funny, when I was writing that chapter, I actually really didn't know, so I kind of had to do the exercise myself. And pretty quickly, you know, I got the memory of, oh, when I was four years old, I went to the grocery store with my mom, as I always did, and I loved doing that. I loved walking in the bulk food aisle and looking at all the candy. And I decided to steal a gumball because I didn't think it was that bad. I saw, you know, adults pop in a sample here and there into their mouths. What's the big deal? And so I did that. And then my mom eventually caught me and, you know, reprimanded me and said, you can't do that. That’s stealing. That's wrong. But the other kind of component that really stuck with me, and it wasn't just that stealing is wrong, and I have not stolen anything ever since. I've been very, you know, afraid to do that ever since. It was the fact that she also kind of made me feel that we can't look like we don't have money in front of our peers, our community. That's shameful because we don't want to look poor. There's something kind of negative associated with that. And I've carried that since now. There's a lot of… So really, ultimately, my first money memory was money equals shame or something shameful. And I've carried that for a long time. And that's predominantly the biggest emotion or biggest feeling that people that I talk to have is money and shame. And, you know, when I had a lot of interviews with people and even people in my family and friends, they always had some sort of childhood memory that was connected to something like a shame or guilt or something kind of negative.

RZ: And if that is the case, if that's something you're bringing to your adulthood, how does that inform how you perceive money?

JESSICA MOOREHOUSE: I mean, it really does impact it. For me, I just, I think, made money have more control over me instead of the reverse. We should be viewing money as a tool that's not good or bad. It's really what we do with it. But I think most of us come from a place where we think money is in control. It's dictating our decisions, our behaviours, our feelings in general. And so for me, carrying this shame from childhood, I was very careful with my money, which, you know, overall is a good thing. But also, it prevented me from sometimes taking risks or just feeling good about spending money. I still have issues when I'm like, I want to spend some money and buy myself something, and always in the back of my head, I have this, you know, person talk to me saying, but do you need it? Can you afford it? Is this really something that you should be doing? And so when we connect our feelings with money and start at that, you know, origin point, we can then start making connections on how do we feel about money today and how are those feelings dictating our decisions? And, you know, I just got a DM this morning from someone who started reading my book and said this was the first time that they made that connection for themselves and got like that light bulb moment because often, the personal finance advice you see out there is, well, just stop spending money that you, you know, don't have or just stop doing this. It's not that simple. We have these emotions, these really big feelings and a bunch of other stuff internally that are making us act in a way that sometimes is not to our benefit, but actually to our detriment.

RZ: But some of what you said, to me, it assumes that, you know, if you're going to feel good about spending money and not ashamed that you've spent too much, but some of that assumes that you have some money to start with, right?

JESSICA MOOREHOUSE: Absolutely. And that's, the book really is focussed on when it's not a financial issue, when, you know, we have the, you know, the income, the means, and it's really just but we keep on overspending or we keep on doing not putting anything into savings and you can't figure out why do I keep doing that? This is the book that's going to address that. But when you're dealing with a I don't have enough income or my expenses are exceeding my income or it's there's just lack of money, that's a whole different other issue. I do address that a little bit in the book when we specifically talk about when you do want to find some professional help, you know, with a therapist or even with, you know, financial professional, how do we find that money in our budget? Because these things aren't cheap. So we do have some solutions for that. But yeah, they’re two very different issues.

RZ: Okay. So what do you find for those people who have some money and they're wondering how to stop overspending? What is the sort of most common misconception or false belief people have about the money they do have?

JESSICA MOOREHOUSE: Yeah. So one thing that I came across is often, again, the advice out there is that you're doing something wrong, something's wrong with you. And I feel like we actually should be asking ourselves a different question to find out what is really going on so I can change my behaviours and actions moving forward, which is, well, instead of, you know, what are you not doing? It's what happened to you? What happened for you to, you know, have this kind of blueprint that isn't serving you but is the only guide you've been using up until that point? We need to figure out what that blueprint is. And those things that kind of inform our blueprint are, you know, how did we, how were we raised, how was money spoken about in our household? What were some of the things that we adopted from our parents, whether that was directly or indirectly? And then there's also some kind of bigger things, some deeper, more uncomfortable things for people to really address, which is do you have some trauma, some childhood trauma, even trauma in your adulthood, things that have affected you that you, you know, if you have trauma and it hasn't been healed, hasn't been dealt with, you carry that with you in your body, in your mind forever until you really deal with it. And so that can inform how you spend money. If you get, you know, something happens, you're out and about, you get triggered, sometimes, you'll use money as a method to self-soothe yourself so you can get back into a place of connection and calmness and peace. And I see that with a lot of people. When they get riled up, when they get really emotional, they use money as that mechanism to kind of get back to a place that they feel comfortable in.

RZ: You know, we're starting a new year, and sometimes, people have financial goals at the start of a year or, you know, goals about anything. But really, money can sometimes be where you peg your hopes and dreams. So at the start of the year, what would you suggest? How do people go into this year if they're trying to meet some new financial goal?

JESSICA MOOREHOUSE: I would say instead of going into this year and once again saying, I want to earn this amount of money or save this amount of money or have this net worth by the end of the year, which, again, are fine goals. If you have never been able to successfully reach any of your past financial goals and you're just repeating the cycle, maybe it's about having a different goal, which is I want to have a better relationship with money and I want to do the work this year on, you know, healing the things that need to be healed and deconstructing my current money story and rewriting a new one. And so that's what my book ultimately helps you do, is let's do that inner work so we then can do that outer work.

RZ: And just lastly, before we go, you know, parents are like, oh dear, now I've got to worry about giving the wrong message to my kids. Any one tip for how you can make sure your kids don't walk away with a money problem in their minds?

JESSICA MOOREHOUSE: You know what, parents? I know it's the hardest job in the world, so, you know, give yourself a break, but just be careful how you discuss money. Remember, kids are sponges. They know everything that you say, even if you don't know that they're in the room. So try to speak about money in a way that's free of shame and judgement and show them that, no, it can be a positive thing, but it ultimately is you have to make, you know, kind of the right decisions and make sure that you know you're in control of money. Money is not in control of you.

RZ: Okay. Jessica Moorehouse, thank you so much for this.

JESSICA MOOREHOUSE: Thanks so much.

RZ: Jessica Moorehouse is the author of the new book, “Everything But Money: The Hidden Barriers Between You and Financial Freedom”. The CBC News is next. Then, do you have any hot dog buns lying around?

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CHUCK HUGHES: When you use it for French toast, it is like a perfect little sponge, really. That's, that, that bread is it's not normal how spongy and how moist it is.

RZ: Before he had kids, acclaimed Montreal chef Chuck Hughes never really cooked at home. But now, he's conjuring up recipes like hot dog French toast with his eight and 10-year-old sous chefs. How Kids Rocked Chuck Hughes’ culinary world changed his life and inspired his newest cookbook. That's coming up in six minutes. I'm Rebecca Zandbergen, and you are listening to The Current.

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CHUCK HUGHES

RZ: I'm Rebecca Zandbergen, and you're listening to The Current. Swordfish with celery root. Orecchiette with PEI cultured butter and white truffle. Agnolotti with lobster moose, wild mushrooms and brioche crumbs. Just a few of your choices when you eat at Garde Manger. That's the Montreal restaurant owned by Chef Chuck Hughes. At home, though, Chuck's menu these days runs more to more kid friendly and wallet friendly meals. Cream of tomato soup, Pizza, Mom's meat pie and hotdog bun French toast. Chuck has turned his family recipes into a new cookbook, his first in a decade. It's called “Chuck Hughes: Home Cooking: Family Favourite Recipes From My Kitchen to Yours”. And I spoke with Chuck Hughes in October.

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RZ: Chuck, people don't usually think of French toast or even hotdog bun French toast when they think of you. Why the change of gears here?

CHUCK HUGHES: Well, you know, I had kids, so…

RZ: That'll do it.

CHUCK HUGHES: That's what happened. You know, I've worked in restaurants basically my whole life. I've owned Garde Manger and worked there for 18 years. And, you know, when I had my first child 10 years ago, the reality of cooking at home became something that I never had to deal with per se in my life before kids, because, you know, I would work late, obviously eat at the restaurant, probably too much takeout and ordering late night, but really never cooking at home and never having the right tools and never really wanting to, you know? But when you have kids and obviously, you need to feed them, but it kind of changed my life in terms of how I do like to cook at home now and how different it is from cooking in the restaurants.

RZ: So kids rocked your culinary world.

CHUCK HUGHES: Well, basically. And I mean, I still bring, you know, air quotes here, professional kitchen attitude to my own kitchen at home. You know, I like to still, you know, there's some standards that are never going to change. Being organized and getting your mise en place, which is basically getting all your ingredients out and kind of figure out what you're going to use so you don't have to, you know, crack an egg and then go get some flour in the cupboard and have everything measured out. So, you know, it's, it's, I never cooked at home before. And now, obviously, I cook all the time. I cook with my kids, and, you know, it's very different. There's a lot of pressure in restaurants. Obviously, every single plate has to be, you know, perfect or as good as it's going to be, but there's a lot going on. And then at home, it's kind of a different kind of pressure, and I've truly started really loving it. And my kids kind of, you know, they're not good with the cleaning up, but they like to cook and make a mess and have fun. And to me, that's important. So yeah, it's definitely changed my life, and the book is a reflection of that.

RZ: And including your kids in what you cook is a big part of what you do now.

CHUCK HUGHES: I'm lucky I have, I feel like kids in general go through phases where when they're really young, you can kind of feed them whatever you want and they'll just eat it. Then they start going to daycare and pre-school, and then they hear stuff like, "Oh, mushrooms are gross. I don't like onions." And you kind of have to deal with that at home. And now, they're 8 and 10. They're pretty adventurous, maybe a little too adventurous, because we all know the cost of food. So when we go somewhere, it's, it's, they say stuff like, it's always better with lobster, right, Dad? I'm like, I don't know if that's an actual fact when I'm paying. But no, I'm lucky. They love to get involved. They love to cook. They love to eat. They like to try new things. So also, when you get them involved a little bit more at a younger age, obviously, you create a better lifestyle in the future. I would think, you know, making better choices at the grocery store, starting with, you know, real ingredients from scratch instead of maybe buying the frozen stuff or already prepared. So, and just the joy of cooking. Like for me, it's really been my life. And my mom was always really big on me getting in the kitchen, and I'm kind of in the same boat here with my kids. And their favourite recipes are in the book.

RZ: What is one of their favourite recipes in the book?

CHUCK HUGHES: Well, the hot dog French Toast is kind of a classic at my house. It really stems from, you know, mostly the summer when you're having hot dogs. If it's on a firepit outside or whatever it is, a barbecue, you always have buns left over and it's like a perfect little sponge, really. That's, that, that bread is, it's not normal how spongey and how moist it is. So when you use it for French toast, it's so moist on the inside and it kind of gets a little bit crispy on the outside. So it's really the perfect bun. So that's something that, like it became a classic at our house kind of by mistake. But it's really good. You know, and it's funny because when I, before I had kids, like I mentioned, I never really cooked at home. And, you know, we make fresh pasta at the restaurant and it's, you know, it's kind of a staple in restaurants, if you will. But at home, I never really did anything like that. But like on a lazy Sunday when you don't know what to do, you know, we make fresh pasta once in a while. And it's one of those things that, you know, we just make fresh pasta with butter, cracked pepper, a little bit of salt or even just pesto. And we have a lot of fun doing it. And it's that realization of almost playing with food. But really, in the end, you have something so good and delicious. And it's kind of… I feel like it opens your mind to different possibilities. You know, I have a huge maple syrup section, a whole sugar shack - cabane à sucre - section in the book because I go to cabane à sucre every year. I love eating it. I have it almost every day. But when I had kids, I realized like, you know, my parents have maple trees, and we could be making our own maple syrup, even though it's just a small batch. And so we've done that. Now, you know, I never did that without my kids or would have thought of doing it.

RZ: You know, one thing I've noticed, and I have a busy household as well, three kids, and there are sort of, my partner is really good at just opening the fridge and making something delicious, whereas I'm the kind of person that has a recipe and has to go out and buy things for the recipe, even though there are delicious things in the fridge that I should be using. I mean, how do you sort of bridge that gap so that you have the skills to just visualize something and ta-da, you've made something delicious for your family?

CHUCK HUGHES: Yeah, that's, I think that's, that's one of those skills that mostly, it's kind of organizing. That's how I like to start my day. I'll take literally 10 or 15 minutes. If I feel that like I've got a couple of elements in there that I can make maybe a baked pasta dish or something, I'll get the pasta out and I'll put it in the saucepan. No water, but it'll be there. Whatever I can kind of just prepare so that I can at night put everything together really, really helps. So I think it's a matter of using stuff obviously that you have that, you know, you can sort of recycle, if you will, but also to organize it in a way that you're not left with a whole bunch of decisions to make in like 15 minutes. My favourite thing is to do that in the morning. That's where I’ll kind of plan my dinner. And so it'll look like it's maybe kind of put together last minute, but at least there's some thought into it. And if there's a couple other elements that I need, so I could probably get them or realize that I have a substitute that'll work just fine. So those are kind of the things that, for me, I love to do when you kind of put a meal together with pretty much nothing, you know?

RZ: Yeah. You talk about substitutes, and I know you've certainly mentioned pasta a few times here as well already. And one of the big ingredients usually in a pasta sauce might be a little bit of red wine, but I understand you don't use wine or alcohol at all in any of your cooking.

CHUCK HUGHES: Well, I mean, I don't at home because I don't, it's 17 years that I don't drink. You know, I quit drinking. I had a drinking problem, and I knew for a long time basically that I had a drinking problem. But, you know, knowing and dealing with it is two different things. So professionally at the restaurant, obviously I'm surrounded by it and we cook with it and it's part of our staples, you know, whether it's red wine sauce or deglazing with some white wine or, you know, cognac or spirits. I mean, it's kind of part of the professional cooking. But at home, you know, I allow alcohol in my house when we have parties and people come over. It's not a problem, but I just won't have it on hand. And in another sense, you know, alcohol and cooking when used poorly doesn't necessarily enhance a dish. So I've seen it used because we, you know, everything's better with wine, which is probably not true. But it's kind of that philosophy. You know, oh well, I added a bit of wine." And so it sounds good. It sounds fancy. It sounds French. It sounds exotic, but it's not always something that really brings to the recipe. So sometimes, I find like if you have a really good stock or even just water, sometimes, you'll get the same results or just as good. And then for a risotto, like I have a risotto recipe in there, for example, where I don't use wine. And I tend to sometimes feel that if the wine is not really cooked down properly and really kind of completely evaporated, well, sometimes, you get like a bitter, whiney kind of after-flavour that's not really a plus. So I think when it's used properly, you know, if you're braising something with red wine for three hours, four hours and, you know, you then strain that sauce to make, you know, to reduce it, to make a really flavourful sauce, well, the wine is cooked out. The alcohol is, and you're really left with that flavour, and you've got that three hours of kind of building those deep rich flavours. So in that sense, I mean, it does work. But for me at home, it's more based on my lifestyle than anything else. But, you know, anybody that wants to get creative with any of my recipes and they want to add wine if they think, you know, that that would work, I mean, I'm not against it. It's just really a personal thing for me because I don't drink. I just don't have it around in my house, you know?

RZ: Yeah. One thing that I think about quite often is that, you know, everyone needs to eat to live, and yet fine dining is certainly not accessible for a lot of people, or the idea of going out for a fancy meal or buying lobster or fancy ingredients is not something a lot of families can afford. So how have you sort of incorporated those sort of ideas of making delicious food accessible for more people in the ways in which you do this particular cookbook?

CHUCK HUGHES: Yeah, it's, you know, this cookbook is really, you know, it's not a 15-minute meals or a kind of quick fix cookbook with shortcuts. And so it's definitely a real cookbook in the sense that it's got a little bit of everything in it. You know, a lot of times, we probably, like I mentioned risotto before, but, you know, people are always very scared of it. But, you know, with a few ingredients, even like dry, I use dried mushrooms and, you know, water and onions. So it's, you know, with a simple technique and a basic few ingredients, you can get a lot of flavour. So I think there's a lot in there about how to maximize flavour with ingredients that we can use to kind of stretch the value. You know, instead of buying six chicken breasts, if you buy a whole chicken, well, you have the bones for a broth, and you can eat off that chicken for two to three days. You know, maybe not a family of five, but definitely two meals. I think there's a way of kind of stretching your ingredients. And I think that it's a real professional, once again, air quotes, professional cooking way of looking at ingredients is, you know, you do pay top Dollar, so you want to maximize the flavour, maximize the yield of whatever you're buying. So, you know, I think everybody's faced with that, with that reality now that, you know, food is expensive. Nothing is cheap anymore. And so you have to make those choices. So substitutes really work. But like things like dried mushrooms and lentils and certain spices just to kick up the heat or even to add a bit of flavour doesn't really cost much. And I think it's also respecting those ingredients and making sure that we use them to their fullest. And so that's kind of the philosophy in this book, is that, yeah, there's, you know, right now, one of those recipes that's kind of the moment is an apple galette, which is, you know, basically an apple pie, but it's in its simplest version with things that we already have in our cupboard. It's just a little bit of extra work, but it's pretty free-form and it's fun to do with kids and it's always delicious. You know, I tell people, you know, cooking does take a little bit of time. And more importantly, you need to want to. And I think that's the first thing. Some of my friends, I feel like it's complicated or this and that, but they also don't really have a desire to cook. So I think that's kind of why I tried to ignite that passion in my kids to, you know, to enjoy it too. And because, like you said, we need to do it to survive. And we're probably going to do it three times a day for the rest of our lives, so you might as well have fun doing it.

RZ: Yeah. You know what's really interesting, Chuck, is I wonder, you know, when you were first getting into the industry and you were, you know, you were first getting your first TV shows and your first books and you were kind of hot on the scene, and I wondered if that, Chuck, would have imagined that you'd be doing this interview about French toast with hotdog buns and comfort food. And, you know, the philosophy is still the same. You got to love cooking and you love it, but there's been an evolution. And I wonder, did you ever imagine that this particular evolution would have happened for you?

CHUCK HUGHES: Well, that Chuck probably thought that this Chuck was already dead by now. So yes. So that Chuck didn't have, you know, it was a different time. I started working in the restaurant business 30 years ago when I was 17. My first job was at the Banff Springs Hotel in Banff, Alberta. I went for the summer like a lot of Quebecers, and I realized that, you know, my mom had always instilled in me this passion for cooking, but I realized then and there that I fell in love with the actual cooking for work, as a job or as a career. And it took me down a path that was a very tough industry with a lot of different traps, if you will. And at that time, I was struggling with addiction and a lot of things. But if you would have asked me back then, I was exactly where I needed and wanted to be. And I was working probably way too much and way too hard and not focusing on myself and kind of just really living a lifestyle that was what I thought was exactly what I should be doing with this kind of "live fast, die young" punk rock mentality of, you know, just go, go, go and don't, don't, you know, nothing's going to matter in the end because you won't be here long enough, to being the guy that, you know, weirdly enough, has had a pretty successful restaurant and career. So I mean, that Chuck would probably look at me and be like really not excited. But I also left that Chuck back there a long time ago because he wasn't good for, you know, in the end, he wasn't a positive good Chuck. So, you know, quitting alcohol for me was really what kind of, you know, I say cooking saved my life, but it truly did because it gave me a passion. But, you know, when I quit drinking, I was able to focus and kind of be more present, be in the moment and actually take part in life, you know what I mean? And so I don't deny the past. And, you know, I got here today because of it, but that's life. You never, you really don't know where you're going to end up. And my prospects, if you would have seen me when I was 21, 22, weren't amazing. You know, the one constant thing was that I worked every day, and I loved it. And it was my life, even though everything surrounding it was pretty negative in retrospect. And so, you know, working in the kitchen today is still hard work, you know, and carrots, they're just not going to peel themselves. You know, it’s just there's things like, and a 50-pound bag of potatoes is still 50 pounds. So there's things that are never going to change from the industry. But I think at least the regard for personal life and to having, you know, passions outside of work and being able to go to another restaurant and have money in your pocket and not be, quote unquote, like, you know, "shackled to the stoves" like I kind of was, is very different. But you would have told me back then, hey, you know, take a couple of days off to relax, I would have said, like in my mind, I would have said, oh my God, my chef doesn't love me anymore. This is the end. What can I do? I need to be here. So it was just, you know, a completely different mentality. You know, I can't say enough for the progression of how it's been going in kitchens. And it's obviously going in the right direction, but…

RZ: What do you mean by that?

CHUCK HUGHES: There's so many shows now that kind of exposed how kitchens, I want to say used to be more than they are today because it has changed a lot. But, you know, when I started working in kitchens, it was all the same type of people, if you will. A lot of times, there was a lot of fringe people in society either kind of like cooking not because it was their passion necessarily, but because they showed up. And no matter what they looked like or what they were on, or as long as you're putting in a 15, 16-hour shift and you're consistent with your food, you get a pass on, you know, if you're a good person, if you're, you know, addicted to this or… It was just a different landscape. Like it's just not… when I was 17 and I said I was working in restaurants, it wasn't like, oh wow, what a career choice. It was kind of like, are you going to be okay? It was just a lot of people that kind of were on their last chance, you know? And at that time, Anthony Bourdain wrote a book called "Kitchen Confidential", where, you know, he talks about this kind of pirate lifestyle of like going hard and partying every night and doing drugs while you're cooking and, you know, look at us where we go to war every night. And, you know, the book became sort of kind of a Bible for young cooks at that time where we were sort of doing the same thing. So it kind of validated what we were doing. It's like, hey, if he's doing that, we're doing the right thing. And look, I love Anthony Bourdain, and I thought, you know, his books and his shows. But, you know, being an alcoholic and a drug addict myself, recovering, but still, you know, I always felt that there was this glamorizing this. That book, as well written as it was, there was a couple little things that were missing, like if you keep on drinking and doing drugs, it'll catch up to you in a certain sense. So I think now, most people go to cooking school to learn the craft. They're more knowledgeable. They have more books. They have Instagram. They have. So as kind of my generation, as people that were thrown into it because they didn't really have a choice, and if you could get ahead, well, you were a rockstar and it was amazing. And, you know, now it's… The work is still hard and it's not easy, but there's a level of wanting to, you know, have a good life and cook as a real career and not just as something that's just going to burn you out. So I think, you know, I don't have the answers and I don't, I can't speak for every kitchen and for every city. But, you know, in my own little restaurant, I can see the diversity in the kitchen that's completely changed the way we interact. There's, you know, there's a lot more respect. And, you know, it used to always be with yelling and kind of this, you know, the chef is always right. And, you know, all that's really, really changed. You know, you still have kind of a chain of command and you still have, you know, a chef and a sous chef, but it's a lot more mixed in terms of who works in the kitchen and, you know, how those kitchens are run.

RZ: Before you go, I'm wondering, what's a song you might name that's on your playlist that gets you going in the kitchen?

CHUCK HUGHES: I have a song I can't stop listening to. It's called "Stockholmsvy" by Hannes and waterbaby. There's something about this song. It's like a perfect song to cook at home. It's chill and it's got a good vibe to it.

RZ: Chuck, thank you so much.

CHUCK HUGHES: Thank you so much.

RZ: I spoke with Chuck Hughes from Montreal in October. His new cookbook is called “Home Cooking: Family Favourite Recipes From My Kitchen to Yours”. And from his playlist, this is Stockholmsvy.

[Song: “Stockholmsvy” by Hannes and waterbaby]

RZ: Coming up after your regional update, Matt Galloway’s conversation with basketball star DeMar DeRozan. I'm Rebecca Zandbergen, and you are listening to The Current.

[song fades up and out]

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DEMAR DEROZAN

RZ: I'm Rebecca Zandbergen, and you're listening to The Current.

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ANNOUNCER: With the ninth pick in the 2009 NBA draft, the Toronto Raptors select DeMar DeRozan from the University of Southern California.

RZ: And with that, DeMar DeRozan started his journey into Canadian sports history drafted to the Toronto Raptors. He'd been dreaming of an NBA career since he was a kid growing up in his LA neighbourhood of Compton. He'd spend hours poring over VHS tapes of the greats, Michael Jordan and Dr. J., to learn their secrets. As a raptor, DeMar DeRozan’s contributions on the basketball court were legendary. But he also sparked a conversation on the sidelines when he started talking about his own struggles with mental health. DeMar DeRozan has written about his journey in his memoir, “Above The Noise”, and Matt Galloway spoke with him in September. Here is that conversation.

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MG: You go back to 2009, what was going through your mind when you realized you've been drafted by the Raptors?

DEMAR DEROZAN: Oh, excitement. A dream come true. I just remember feeling, you know, like it was so surreal. You know, especially at that time. This was the place I definitely wanted to be. So to hear my name get drafted, you know, having my parents there, seeing their reaction, walking up there and putting a hat on felt like a dream come true. Well, it was a dream come true.

MG: It comes after a lot of hard work in a neighbourhood that you grew up in where a lot of your friends went down different paths. What do you remember about growing up in Compton?

DEMAR DEROZAN: A constant obstacle on a daily basis that felt so normalized, you know. Growing up, no matter if it was a bad day or worse day, every day felt normal. I mean, basketball allowed me to see more and have aspirations for more things and gave me an opportunity to see that it is more things that, you know, I can lean towards and have dreams of becoming. You know, so for me, it was just a constant challenge.

MG: You said that it was a neighbourhood, in the book, you say it's a neighbourhood where death and destruction was normalized.

DEMAR DEROZAN: For sure. It was definitely that. When you grow up, you really can't understand anything else but what you're growing up in. You know, you watch movies and you see people growing up in nice places, you feel like it's just a movie. Like those places really didn't exist 20, 30 minutes from where you were living. So being trapped in that type of emotional mental state, you know, you kind of look at everything like it's normal.

MG: What did basketball give you?

DEMAR DEROZAN: Basketball was the only thing I could comprehend, and basketball was the only thing that allowed me to embrace my imagination, being able to recreate moments you see from your favourite players growing up. You know, I just always remember having a make believe, you know, court in the house, doing fadeaway jump shots with my tongue out, trying to, you know, be Jordan, trying to grow my mini afro like Kobe when I was young. You know, it gave you a belief when you watch sports and when you play sports to really see that imagination could come true.

MG: Tell me about watching those videotapes. I mean, this is before streaming. This is before you could dial up the highlights online and you get the old cassettes sitting there, watching them on the television. Tell me about watching those.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah. You know, it was such a beautiful thing when I look back on it, because I just remember how grainy the TV was. You know, you couldn't even see the player's face. But, you know, watching so many games in black and white, you know, I remember times where they didn't even show the score on the TV. You were just watching them go up and down the court. And I used to just watch basketball so much because, one, it gave me a moment with my dad, you know, and two, unknowingly, it gave me a deeper appreciation and love for the game of basketball.

MG: Tell me about the relationship that you had with your dad.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Man, my dad was, you know, my dad was my everything. You know, he was everything I wanted to strive to be. I wanted his acceptance. I wanted to make him proud. He pushed me. He taught me a lot of things. He showed me tough love, but it all makes sense as I got older, you know, to be able to have a supportive father. He was there for every moment in my life. That meant a lot, you know, especially now how I am with my kids.

MG: You say that you knew he loved you, but he was also the only person that you were scared of.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yes, he was the only person I was terrified of. I remember…

MG: Terrified.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah. I remember if I woke up late and I hear him walking up the stairs or if he yelled my name, it was like a panic and me jumping out the bed. Because like I said, you know, he was tough on me, but he was tough on me for all the right reasons. But being young, you know, I didn't look at it that way. I always looked at it like, man, what I do? What I do now? What I got to do? But he would just teach me a lot of life lessons that I carry to this day.

MG: He really believed that you were going to make it too.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah.

MG: He kind of knew in his mind that you were going to make it.

DEMAR DEROZAN: I think he had the utmost belief in me more than anything and anybody before I even knew I was even good at basketball, you know? And I don't even think it was more so for basketball, I think, as just a person. You know, he seen something in me that I could have, and he didn't let me shortchange it or make excuses or complain about much of anything. He pushed me because he knew I was going to be something.

MG: You have a tattoo. It's on your right forearm. Is that right?

DEMAR DEROZAN: Mm hmm.

MG: And it says, why would they care about you?

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah.

MG: This is a tattoo that you see it every time you're taking a shot.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah. Yeah, it was one of those things growing up, it was something that I always heard so often. Like why would they care about you? You know, they don't love you. They don't make sure you get up in the morning. They don't push you. They don't give their best effort to make you be the best you could be.

MG: This is what your dad was telling you.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah. And that was one thing that always was instilled in my mind. Like you can't expect everybody to care. You got to lean towards the ones, your family, the ones that really care for you, that want the best for you, because everybody is not going to care. Everybody looks at you like you don't matter. You know, you got to do what you need to do for who you need to do it for family wise and for yourself. So that was one thing that definitely pushed me.

MG: You used to go on these trips with him back to, he's from Vidalia, Louisiana.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yep. Yep.

MG: And you would go on these road trips to a different, like a completely different world. You'd see the stars, you'd see all sorts of, but you would stop sometimes, and you'd look up at the sky and he would show you the moon.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah.

MG: What was it about the moon?

DEMAR DEROZAN: It meant so many things because it symbolized that there was more to the world than just you. You know, growing up in Compton, a lot of times, you feel like you're so alone. Whatever you were going through, it's only you. And I just remember the first time we used to drive from, you know, Compton, California, all the way to Louisiana. It was like a two-day, three-day road trip. But I just always remember when we got outside of the city, you could see the stars and the moon clear. That was new because so much smog in the city everyday. And it kind of just like, it blew my mind because it made me realize there's so much more to the world than what I thought I was living in. I felt like I was living in such a bubble whenever things was going extremely bad. And, you know, the moon in the sky kind of just symbolized there was so much more to the world than what my problems I may be having in that moment.

MG: So we played that little bit at the beginning of you getting drafted. And this is part of it. I mean, realizing there's a much bigger world. You come to Canada for the first time. You land in Toronto. What was your impression of this country?

DEMAR DEROZAN: Oh man, it was very overwhelming in a lot of ways. You know, I just remember being confused trying to get through the airport. I remember seeing the freeway signs, half of it in French, half of it in English.

MG: You asked yourself, what have I gotten myself into?

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah. Like it was so much because I was by myself. I'm 19. I’m 19 years old. I'm a kid. Never, you know, going through customs, filling out the customs card, trying to figure out which side was English or French, making sure I'm doing the right thing. But it was something that was very needed and essential for my growth as a man and as a professional because it kind of grounded me. It helped me kind of like start over in a sense and kind of just take one step at a time once I got here, and it was everything that I needed.

MG: Why do you think you connected with this city?

DEMAR DEROZAN: I felt the connection before I even drafted with the city. I think that's why I was so happy, and I was so eager to even get drafted by Toronto because even beforehand, you know, I just felt the… I felt the need, like they wanted me here. And when I got drafted, the way they embraced me made it easy for me to embrace it back. And I grew here. You know, like I said, it was my first time leaving home. So to come to Canada, come to Toronto for the first time, the city still was developing so much. Even now, when I come here now, I remember when there wasn't buildings here. I remember, you know, the skyline wasn't how it is now. So for me, I kind of grew with the city. You know, I grew with the sport evolution of the city as well. So being a part of that, I think there was a much more deeper emotional connection.

MG: It's just interesting because there were, I mean, you would well know a lot of players come here and the first thing that they want to do is get out.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah.

MG: People don't want to stay here. They don't want to be here. It's a different country completely. You can't get ESPN, the things people are used to. And all you wanted to do was be here.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah. And I think, I usually hear that so much from players that came. I remember a lot of guys used to come on the team and all they did was complain. And to me, I used to be confused. Like what did you complain about? Granted, this was the only place I knew at the time. So to me, I was just happy to be here. But that more so made me want to push and change the narrative of wanting to play here and be here, you know? And I took that to heart.

MG: You created something here in Toronto. And you created it alongside a lot of players, but Kyle Lowry was somebody who you worked so well with. When he came here, what was your first impression of him?

DEMAR DEROZAN: I couldn't stand him when he first came here.

MG: I don't know if I can use the language that you use in the book, but the way that you describe him is not at all flattering.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't stand him at all, you know? And it's so crazy. Even before I walked in here, I was on FaceTime with him for about 15, 20 minutes before we walked in here. But when he first came to the team, we were so, so much of opposites in personalities that I just didn't see him fitting well. But after time went on my first season here, I’d seen how he worked. I’d seen how he cared about his craft. I’d seen how he also stayed to himself. But I’d also seen how he laid it all out there on the line when it was time to go play, and that was something that was so appealing to me. It kind of brought us even closer in a moment to where I never would have realized that because his work ethic and his care he had for the game ran so deep, and I just wanted to be a part of that. And ever since then, you know, he’s been my best friend.

MG: What did you learn from him as a man?

DEMAR DEROZAN: One, how to be an ultimate professional. You know, one thing about Kyle, he used to come in two or three hours before practice, do his whole workout, shower. And a lot of times, he would be laying in the locker room before practice even started and practice and leave it all out there. Once practice was over, he would go about his day, go tend to his family. He was so on point with everything. And I took a lot of that from him, just being on point when it came to putting your work in.

MG: I want to jump ahead to 2018 NBA All-Star Game. It's in Los Angeles. How would you describe your state of mind around that time?

DEMAR DEROZAN: It was so much all over the place, you know, because at that time, my career was at its height.

MG: Yeah.

DEMAR DEROZAN: We was winning. So much was going on on the court in a positive way, in an overwhelming way as well. And there was a lot coming with that off the court as well. And I think making it to All-Star Weekend, I kind of felt like I was just hitting the wall because I didn't care about nothing else other than just wanting to get home and hang with my kids.

MG: You wanted to be normal.

DEMAR DEROZAN: That's all I wanted. I just wanted to walk in here and be completely normal, at least for a day, with my kids, you know? And to get home and it'd be the complete opposite, even worse of how I was feeling the week prior, you know, it kind of just kind of made me hit a wall. You know, it led me to in the middle of the night, tweet out a tweet.

MG: The tweet got a lot of attention. And the tweet came from something that you read and saw from Jim Carrey, the comedian. What did you learn from Jim Carrey?

DEMAR DEROZAN: Man, Jim Carrey and Robin Williams was two guys that I listened to them speak. I listened to them talk about a lot of things from a mental standpoint, from a life standpoint. And these are guys that we grew up idolizing as comedians that made everybody laugh, but you also see the pain that they carry with that.

MG: They were as successful as you could possibly be in their fields.

DEMAR DEROZAN: You know, and they always used to make me wonder why. Why are they saying these things? These are one of the funniest guys I've ever watched on TV. But to see Jim Carrey put a lot of stuff in perspective, and humanize, and show so much empathy toward humans, it was something that stuck with me. And I remember him even expressing the fact of he wished everybody was rich so everybody could see money isn't everything. And that kind of hit home because, you know, people always say, oh, you got money, you don't have nothing to worry about. But it don't work that way.

MG: So you put out this tweet. The tweet is, 'This depression get the best of me.' Why did… you could have written it but not sent it. You could have put it in the draft. Why did you push 'tweet?'

DEMAR DEROZAN: In that moment, I was so isolated. I was in my own solitude and my emotions was at its all-time high. And, you know, I didn't have nobody to talk to, and it was something I wrote. And literally, when I wrote it, I put my phone down.

MG: What did you think was going to happen?

DEMAR DEROZAN: I didn't think anything.

MG: You must have thought something would happen.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Literally, I didn't think anything, because I wouldn't have woke up in a panic and a shock that I did wondering why I had so many missed calls or text messages. I really didn't know. I just, I sent it, you know, I went to sleep, woke up, you know, ready for the next day, until I seen, you know, the concern, people asking me in detail, what did I mean by that tweet? And it kind of took me back to that moment like, oh man, I tweeted this when I was feeling this way, even though I woke up and I wasn't feeling like the way I felt middle of the morning. Things came with that tweet.

MG: Were you surprised that the things came with that tweet? I mean, the response to it. I remember seeing it because you put it out at 3:00 in the morning.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah.

MG: I remember seeing it and people were like, this is what he's saying. This is him saying that… they wanted to make sure that it was you. People wanted to make sure you're okay, but they also knew that this would lead to a conversation. Did you know that that was going to happen?

DEMAR DEROZAN: No, I didn't know it would lead into all this to this present day. You know, I didn't know. But it was something that was obviously needed, not just for myself, but for, you know, the world, in a sense, you know, to show that we go through things as athletes. You know, and I think after I took a second that following day, it just opened me up and made me realize like, man, yeah, this is how I feel. This is what I'm going through. And it just, it opened a conversation from there.

MG: Let me play something for you. This is Fred VanVleet, former Raptors teammate, talking about what this tweet accomplished. Have a listen.

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FRED VANVLEET: He changed the billion-dollar business. He changed it, you know, pretty much singlehandedly, speaking out. And then obviously, a lot of guys felt more comfortable, and that's what it's about. So for him to do that, it was huge. And we won't know the impact. We'll never know the impact. But we just know there's a great impact that he had on the league and on the guys and on players, coaches, staff, whoever, that this is DeMar DeRozan and he goes through shit like everybody else.

MG: In the book, I mean, and this is true. You say that men, especially Black men, don't want to talk about this and aren't encouraged to talk about this. In fact, the opposite is encouraged. You bottle it up. You don't say that depression is around. You don't say that you're not perfect, especially if you're successful and you're making money. Why do you think people are afraid of that? Why are people afraid of vulnerability?

DEMAR DEROZAN: We live in such an opinion-based world, and a lot of times, people don't want to share things because of getting poked at, made fun of, looking down upon, feeling looked at as being weak. There's not enough empathy being shown that allows people to be free to speak out on a lot of things that they are going through because they don't want to feel shameful. They don't want to feel worse, you know? And I think when you see someone in a higher position normalize, you know, pain that they may go through, it's easier to deal with. Because if I was worried about what everybody else may think or may say, I would have never said anything. You know, I wouldn't have continued to say anything. I wouldn't continue to put my life, you know, out there, even to this day, with me still going through so much and still trying to figure out in a process. But it comes with trying to normalize those things so we can be able to, you know, talk out more, because I know I find inspiration in other people's story and figure out ways how I could be better and actually help the next person.

MG: What have you heard? I mean, Freddie says that you changed a billion-dollar game, but you know that people look up to you and you'd hear from fans. So what have you heard that lets you know that you did the right thing?

DEMAR DEROZAN: I hear so many… It's so baffling to me because whether if it's players or it's coaches, you know, I’ll just start with a couple of coaches I'd had over the years that after practice, we sit and have in-depth conversations about how, you know, me speaking out made them feel seen or gave them more confidence to speak up or, you know, they feel empowered in a sense of knowing that, look, I'm going through this as well and can express it to help a younger person out. And when I hear those things, it means a lot to me because it lets you know that it worked. It worked. And there's been so many people outside the court that come up to me and say how much I helped their kid or, you know, someone 20, 30 years older than me telling me I helped them with something mentally. That means the world to me.

MG: That's really powerful.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah. I never would have imagined that, you know, I'd be able to do something like that following the tweet that I made.

MG: I mean, you do great stuff on the basketball court, but you also wonder whether that legacy will almost equal that. Do you know what I mean?

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah.

MG: Like changing a conversation is a big thing.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah, and I didn't realize how big it was until I did it. So it put me in a place, even in this moment of still learning and still trying to grow and better myself and be a better father, a better person, a better, you know, leader, whatever it may be. And just seeing that it's a constant journey that we all got to kind of go through. And that's what led me to even do a book.

MG: So you wanted to be here. You wanted to be in Toronto playing for the Raptors for the rest of your career, or at least for as long as you possibly could. You get this phone call from Masai Ujiri. First, you're in a movie, and so you kind of, you know, text him back or whatever like that. Then you get this phone call. From your perspective, what do you remember about that call?

DEMAR DEROZAN: I just remember being in shock when it happened. You know, I just remember being there, being stuck when I heard the words.

MG: The words we've traded you.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah. Like I just, once I heard the words we traded you, it was like nothing else mattered. You know, I kind of was just kind of blanked out, you know? And it was a weird feeling that, you know, I never felt again to this day.

MG: In the book, you use the words betrayed and blindsided a bunch of times.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah.

MG: Why? Blindsided I could see, but why betrayed?

DEMAR DEROZAN: You know, and that was just me speaking from my perspective because, you know, I just felt like, you know, I was going to be here. You know, I felt like I wasn't going to go nowhere. And, you know, that was my feelings at the time, you know? You know, and it's just crazy how, you know, the world worked because, you know, whenever I see Masai now, I give him a big hug. You know, my love and appreciation for, you know, everything he' done for me in my career.

MG: But are you still angry with the fact that that even went down?

DEMAR DEROZAN: No, I'm not mad at all with how it went down. You know, looking back on it, of course, in that moment, you know, you feel hurt. You feel all these things because like I always say, you know, this is where I wanted to be. This is where I put everything into it, where I became, you know, I was 19 years old. You know, I grew up here wanting to be here. And like I said, I had, I carry so much weight of wanting to change the narrative of being here that, you know, it hit different when it happened. You know, sitting here with you today, do I feel angry? Man, not at all. Like, you know, I've past that. I've grown from it. And, you know, like I said, like I'm always thankful for the opportunity of my nine years here will forever be instrumental. Nothing will ever top, you know, my nine years here.

MG: I think it's interesting. I mean, one of the things you did was you looked at how to, you Googled how to disappear, and you go out into the desert and look back up at the moon that you used to look at with your dad.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah. You just, you know, it takes me right back to, you know, those elements of chasing the calm that you was kind of searching for in a sense. And, you know, that was one thing that kind of, you know, grounded me to get away from so much of the noise that was going on, whether it was from social media, TV, friends, family, your phone. It kind of just puts you in that place of just being calm all over again.

MG: What do you still get from playing basketball?

DEMAR DEROZAN: The same thing I got when I was a kid.

MG: Really?

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah.

MG: Even this far into your career?

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah. The excitement, the enjoyment, the competitive drive, the push. I still get the same feeling, you know, and that's a beautiful thing, because I just remember being a kid, just always going to the park and wanting to play all day long. You know, I'm still having that same feeling, you know? That's why I play, you know, back home all summer. I play as much as I can because, you know, I love the game.

MG: What do you do to take care of yourself? Aside from the physical, knowing what you know now, what do you do to take care of yourself?

DEMAR DEROZAN: You know, it's a consistent thing of finding ways to, you know, stay grounded. You know, it's tough. You know, it's not easy. You know, I tell people all the time, it's not easy. It's not supposed to be easy. You know, there's things I tried and I have expectations of it changing right then, right there. But sometimes, it don't work that way. I think for me, it's just a consistent journey of me trying to figure out what works. You know, sometimes, nature works for me. You know, I do that sometimes. If I can't be in nature, sometimes, you know, I take a moment to myself and try to indulge in something positive, something uplifting. You know, some days, I may just take a nap and kind of just put my phone down, turn the TV and just kind of decompress from everything. So there's multiple things that I consistently try to do.

MG: It feels like you're stronger now like mentally because of everything that you went through that way.

DEMAR DEROZAN: For sure. Definitely stronger. And, you know, a lot of even more ways of getting tested come with, you know, being stronger. You know that you got to battle with. And, you know, I think I'm at that place now where I'm still, you know, still battling with a lot of things, but I'm up for the challenge more so than before.

MG: What's it like being back in Toronto now, launching this book?

DEMAR DEROZAN: Man, it's amazing. You know, this is where it all started for me. Like I said, nothing will ever top my time here because it was my first, you know? It was my first, you know, everything. You know, ups, downs, smiles, frowns, cries, you know, it all started here. So to be able to do something I never thought I'd be doing in my life, to come back here and do it is definitely cool.

MG: Now, people are watching you in part because this summer, you popped up in Kendrick Lamar's video, the song of the summer, Not Like Us. And suddenly, you appear in this video when this is like, I mean, this is the last nail in that beef that he had with Drake. Suddenly, there's DeMar DeRozan. What were you doing in that?

DEMAR DEROZAN: Kendrick's been a friend, family to me for a long time, you know, for a long time. And it was one of those things, I don't think I necessarily approached it thinking it was a, you know, beef type of thing. I'm more so approached it like, you know, somebody that was close to me asked me to come and, you know, I supported him.

MG: Are you worried you might get some boos when you come back next time Sacramento comes and plays here?

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah, you've always got to expect that. But, you know, at the end of the day, you know, I'm from Compton. I'm from Compton, California, and Kendrick's from Compton. And, you know, like I said, that was somebody that was close to me, that was instrumental to me. You know, probably caught a lot of people off guard because that's a relationship for years that, you know, I never, you know, publicized or anything like that. But yeah, that was more so of, you know, that's my man. He asked me for a favour, and, you know, representing Compton.

MG: I was going to say it feels like you representing home.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah, that's all-- what it was for me. You know, looking at it like, you know, I'm from Compton, California. He's from Compton, California. There's only a handful of us to make it out. And for him to be one of the great ones to do what he's doing, you know, I had to represent for the city.

MG: No one's going to boo you here. People love you.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Yeah...

MG: A lot of love for you in Toronto.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Appreciate it. Thank you.

MG: Thank you for being here. The book is really interesting, but your story and the work that you've done on yourself is fascinating and it has changed the conversation and changed the game.

DEMAR DEROZAN: Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it.

RZ: DeMar DeRozan is a six-time NBA all-star now playing for the Sacramento Kings. He started his NBA career with close to a decade with the Toronto Raptors. His book is called “Above the Noise: My Story of Chasing Calm”. Matt Galloway spoke with him in September. And that is our program for today. Stay tuned to Radio One for Q. You can listen to The Current live on the CBC News app. Stream CBC Radio One through the app wherever you are by selecting local and tapping the bright yellow Listen button. You can also find and follow us wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Rebecca Zandbergen. Thanks for listening to The Current.

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