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The Current Transcript for September 19, 2023

Host: Matt Galloway

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

Prologue

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Any involvement of a foreign government in the killing of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil is an unacceptable violation of our sovereignty.

MATT GALLOWAY: It is an explosive allegation. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau accusing the Indian government and the killing of a Sikh community leader on Canadian soil. That news immediately made headlines around the world in just a moment. NDP leader Jagmeet Singh on the fear felt in the community and a former director of national security on the accusations and what happens next. Also this morning, as the war in Ukraine drags on, smiles in that country are hard to come by. Quebec, skilled for mats, is trying to change that. He is a humanitarian clown who travels to war zones to let kids be kids again. In an hour, finding a laugh in an unlikely place. And later, Newfoundland Gros Morne in National Park is a stunning landscape. Mountains rolling green hills bounded by the sea. And then you come over one of those hills and it looks like the surface of Mars.

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I still grab a rock because I am still in awe. I am not numb or normalised any of this. It still fascinates me.

MG: The Tablelands are one of the very few places where the Earth's mantle pops through its surface. Coming up, a hike through this landscape to hear how scientists are making discoveries that could teach us about the possibilities of life on Mars. But we start in Ottawa and a shocking allegation. Good morning. I'm Matt Galloway and this is The Current.

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Trudeau accuses India of involvement in death of Canadian

Guests: Jagmeet Sigh, Richard Fadden

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JUSTIN TRUDEAU: Canada has declared its deep concerns to the top intelligence and security officials of the Indian government. Last week at the G20. I brought them personally and directly to Prime Minister Modi in no uncertain terms in the strongest possible terms. I continue to urge the government of India to cooperate with Canada to get to the bottom of this matter.

MG: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's words in Parliament yesterday are reverberating not just here in Canada, but right around the world. He is accusing the Indian government of being behind the murder of Sikh Canadian leader Hardeep Singh Nijjar. Mr. Nijjar was killed in Surrey, British Columbia, last June. Trudeau says the allegations are based on credible intelligence work. The Indian government says they are absurd and motivated. Jagmeet Singh is the leader of the New Democratic Party. Jagmeet Singh. Good morning.

JAGMEET SINGH: Good morning.

MG: You were briefed by the Prime Minister before he made those allegations in the House of Commons. Were you surprised by these allegations that the Indian government was behind this assassination?

JAGMEET SINGH: It is hard to describe the feeling that I had as a as a young, Sikh man. I grew up knowing that if anyone was to criticise the Indian government for their their abysmal human rights track record, whether it's the treatment of women or minority religious groups or tribal communities or low caste or people struggling in any other marginalised way, I was always aware that you could be denied a visa or if you went to India, you you could be subject to violence, torture or some horrific violence or maybe even death. I knew that something that people that were involved in talking about human rights issues were aware of. But to hear the Prime Minister of Canada say that there's evidence that links the government to the killing of a Canadian national on Canadian soil was something that that really shocked me, shocked that sense of safety and security that a lot of people I know in many diaspora communities who have fled governments of abuse really rely on that sense of security that was really shaken, not just for the Sikh community particularly, but for many communities who have been actively critical of the countries where they come from, the governments and the regimes that are oppressive, it was really this visceral sense of we're no longer safe in a place that we really believe that is safe.

MG: So based on what you heard growing up, were you surprised by the allegation that the Indian government, he believes and the evidence believes it shows the Indian government could be behind this?

JAGMEET SINGH: It's an outrageous and shocking thing, but sadly not surprising for a lot of members of the of the diasporic community that the Indian government can stoop to this type of level, given the really flagrant abuses of human rights, it's not something surprising for folks that have this image of India as the world's largest democracy, I'm sure it's shocking. But for people that have been involved in any sort of space of activism, raising concerns about the systemic abuse of women's rights, this is actually very, very much par for the course for what India and other countries like it do.

MG: The president of the World Sikh Organisation of Canada said in a statement: "The Prime Minister of Canada has publicly said what Sikhs in Canada have known for decades that India actively targets Sikhs in Canada./' So do you believe that? Do you believe that India actively is targeting members of the Sikh community in this country?

JAGMEET SINGH: Well, it's something that the Sikh community has long felt that that that was happening and but often were felt to believe that that's just a conspiracy theory that can't be the case. But why would a country as large as India target Sikhs in another country? It just seems so unbelievable. How could that even happen? But now we've got the credible voice of the prime minister of Canada saying, yes, that's indeed what's happened. And it's still sending shockwaves through the community. People are still reeling from this because it's hard to come face to face with something you've long believed to be true now be corroborated by someone at that level.

MG: The Indian government has rejected these allegations and accused Canada of providing shelter to what it calls terrorists and extremists. It designated Mr. Nijjar a terrorist. What do you make of the Indian government's response?

JAGMEET SINGH: I think if you look at the scenario, We've got a Canadian national, in Canada, killed by a foreign government. That's the allegations in front of us. There is no justifying that. There is no way that that makes any sense at all to any Canadian, any rule-of-law country, that that you could be a national of a country in Canada and that another foreign country would come and kill you or somehow be involved in your killing. That is just so beyond any level of what is in any remotely acceptable behaviour. It's just so wrong. There's there's no way of justifying that. And any attempt to do so is is flies in the face of the outrageousness and the and the just heinous acts that it is.

MG: You mentioned and you mentioned this in in your remarks yesterday in the House of Commons, what you grew up hearing, the stories that you grew up hearing about the dangers of speaking out about human rights violations in India. Tell me more about that. What were those stories? What did you specifically here?

JAGMEET SINGH: Well, that that if if I was I was I was aware that if you're critical of India and folks felt this leaving, a lot of people fled India because of the human rights violations, the experience in their lives, they they they would share stories that this would happen. One of the stories that really stood out was a man named [unintelligible]. He was a banker by day. He was a volunteer at the [unintelligible] the Golden Temple, and he worked in the human Rights department as a volunteer. And he uncovered basically the extradition, the extrajudicial killing of many young Sikh men. And it was being done by the Punjab police, by the Indian government, and it was being covered up. They were being killed in a way that no one knew how it happened. Families didn't know what was happening. He came and actually testified in Canada. I spoke in parliament and said, this is what's happening. I've uncovered evidence. He was able to conclusively find that these young men were being killed and they were not being given due process. They were not being prosecuted through the courts, if you like. It was just being these extrajudicial killings testified in parliament and then was told he should stay because his life is at risk. He went back to India and a police whistleblower said that his body was then chopped up and dumped into a river and he was disappeared himself.

MG: And that was the fear that went through the community, that if you spoke up, that that could happen to.

JAGMEET SINGH: You, that could happen, that that's something that could happen to you if you went back to India.

MG: You you yourself, when you were an Ontario MP, were denied a visa to India. Right. The Indian government, the consul general accused you of seeking to undermine Indian democratic institutions. What did it mean for you to be accused in that way?

JAGMEET SINGH: Well, I didn't. And this is a government and a country of just such abuse of human rights, an abuse of dignity, of life and abuse of people that I didn't take any merit to their allegation. But it is something that I was I was told could happen if I was critical of of the government. And it's something that impacts. The community, I represented had a lot of people diasporic from South Asia, particularly from India, and who had a ot of concerns about violations going on with their loved ones, with their family, with their friends. And so I raised those concerns and I knew the risk that I ran with that would be I might never be able to go back again. And so that is that has been the case for me. But but I really think that, you know, it's not about me. It's about so many people that aren't elected officials that are worried that if their advocacy, if their expression of their their right to the freedom of speech, if their thought would result in not only not being able to go back, but also harm to themselves or to the family members, we know that this is a matter that's happened in other communities. People from that that I support from China or for Hong Kong or Taiwan are also in fear of having the same things happen to them. Potential threats. We now know a member of parliament was threatened and his family was threatened because of his advocacy or critique of the Chinese government. So we know that this is not an isolated case, but it is something that that now we're seeing more and more evidence of. And it's really it's really hard to explain what that means to our community, that that's a long known something. And then finally, seeing more and more evidence and a credible source say, yeah, you know, what you've long believed is actually true.

MG: Before I let you go, let me ask you two very quick things. One is the Indian Prime Minister, Narendra modi, believes that the issue of sick activism and the separatist movement in Canada, in his words, should be addressed by Mr. Trudeau. What do you think of that?

JAGMEET SINGH: I think there's there's a the respect of people having the freedom of expression. People can say and practice what they believe or advocate for what they believe in as long as it's done in a peaceful manner. And I think that that's a read hearing. What we have in front of us is serious allegations from a respected nation like Canada, from the prime Minister. Of this country, indicating that there is evidence that links or there's intelligence that links the Indian government to the killing of a Canadian national on Canadian soil. And nothing can change that. That is that is a heinous and serious allegation.

MG: This country has very close ties to India. Those are personal ties. Those are business ties. There are thousands, as we know, of a foreign students, for example, who arrive in this country every single year. Just finally, what should Canada's relationship with India be going forward in light of these allegations? Can Canada have a normal relationship with India?

JAGMEET SINGH: Well, right now it can't have a normal relationship with the government of India, given these types of allegations. This is this is if these allegations are true, it's a serious breach of the sovereignty of Canada that a foreign nation would kill someone on Canadian soil, that's a Canadian. So there's no way to have normal relations at this point. But I would just make the distinction between the government of India and the people. And there's incredible people that contribute so much who come from so many walks of life, who contribute in such incredible ways. And I've had the honour of getting to know from so many regions of India, Gujarat and Rajasthan, and from the regions of Maharashtra in the south and from Telugu and Tamilnadu, this incredible people. But right now there's a serious problem with the government. And this Modi government in particular has got a really horrific track record of abuse of human rights and sectarian violence and division and a nationalism that is incredibly, incredibly scary.

MG: Jagmeet Singh, We'll leave it there. Glad to have you on the program. Thank you.

JAGMEET SINGH: Thanks so much.

MG: Jagmeet Singh is the leader of the New Democratic Party. Dick Fadden is the former director of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service. He was a former national security adviser to Prime Minister Harper and Trudeau. Good morning to you.

DICK FADDEN: Good morning.

MG: How serious are these allegations?

DICK FADDEN: Well, I think they're very serious. Any murder is serious. But another state participating in that murder or causing that murder is an extraordinary violation of our sovereignty, all the more so because over the decades, our relations with India have been rocky at times. But they have been a friend and we have been a friend of India, so that a country such as India would do such a thing, as is alleged by the Prime minister, is very serious.

MG: Have you heard of any other instances where a foreign government has been alleged to have carried out an assassination of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil?

DICK FADDEN: No, I have not. The allegations, they've done a whole variety of other things, but not assassinations.

MG: Justin Trudeau talked yesterday about credible allegations in his statement. What would that mean in a case like this? What will he have seen? What will intelligence services have produced?

DICK FADDEN: Let me back up just a little bit, if I may, and make the point that we're not dealing here with the Canadian criminal justice system. That's for the attorney general of B.C. with the RCMP to deal with in trying to resolve the murder. And for that, they're going to have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that somebody or some a number of people committed the murder. When you're dealing with international affairs, national security, there's a different level of proof. It means that over the course of weeks or months, agencies have collected intelligence through the use of intercepted communications, through the use of agents in communities in a variety of ways. But I would say, though, that for a government like Mr. Trudeau's, who has not made national security a priority, for him to rise in the House and to make these allegations, they must be very compelling because no government, let alone Mr. Trudeau's, wants to have to deal with something like this. So I don't think we're ever going to see, as Mr. Singh has advocated yesterday, you know, these people being brought to justice in the Canadian way because they're probably not here and the government of India is not going to collaborate. But that doesn't mean that the allegations articulated by Mr. Trudeau are not entirely correct.

MG: When allegations like this are made. How high up the chain in India with the go ahead for an operation as sensitive as something like this have to go.

DICK FADDEN: That's the I think, one of the $54,000 questions, Do we have a rogue agent, a rogue agency or a rogue government? Mr. Modi runs a fairly centralised government, so I have difficulty believing that this would happen without at least the knowledge, his knowledge or the knowledge of his office. If so, then he has a rogue agency and I have difficulty believing that's the case. So I would say either a senior minister or the Prime Minister of India would have to know about this.

MG: Canada's Prime Minister said that this country has been coordinating with allies. What does that mean and what should we be watching for in terms of responses from the I mean, this is this is international news and you have already international response. But what should we take from from the word? That Canada has been coordinating with its allies?

DICK FADDEN: Well, I think there are two elements to that. I'd like to think that prior to this announcement being made, if any other of our allies had some intelligence, they would have shared it with Canada. We would have talked about this and reinforced or weaken the case that this has happened. But now it means, I think, that there's a recognition that Canada alone is not going to shift the government of India. So if we can get other countries and particular countries where there are significant Indian diasporas to apply pressure on India, we may get them to to recognise that something has gone wrong. I think of Australia, for example, that there's a significant Indian diaspora, same with the United Kingdom. But I think we have to be realistic here. You know, the chances that all of a sudden the government of India is going to collaborate with the Canadian investigation I think are next to zero. Madame Julie yesterday said she expected the Government of India to collaborate, given the reaction of the government in India. It's not going to happen. I think the consequence of this is we're probably never going to know in the same way that we would know after a Canadian criminal trial exactly what happened.

MG: In its response, the Indian government, in addition to saying that the allegations from the Canadian government are absurd and motivated, said that the space given in Canada to a range of illegal activities, including murderous human trafficking and organised crime, is not new. The Indian government has accused Canada of providing shelter to what it calls terrorists. What do you think of those accusations?

DICK FADDEN: Well, the Indians have made these accusations or similar accusations for quite a long time. They really, really don't like anybody anywhere on this planet, you know, supporting advocacy for an independent Sikh state. I do think that there are a number of Sikhs in Canada who use their time, their money and their efforts to try and support this development. And I think, as Mr. Singh said a minute ago, as long as they do this within the rules, you know, you can't we have the anti-terrorism laws in this country and no more Sikhs than any other group can send people to India to to commit acts of violence. We cannot send money directly to support acts of terrorism. Certainly, if you look at these reports over the course of the last many years, there has been mention that there has been some concern about this. But we've always told the government of India that we do have constitutional rights in this country that have to be respected. Have they been respected in absolutely every case? I'm not in a position to know. But I do think I thought when I was still working and I think now the government of India has developed this model in their mind that there's a group of people here who do nothing but, you know, actually create legal activity, illegal activities that would promote Sikh independence in India. I don't think that's the case.

MG: Just finally in the last minute or so that we have and this is the question that I asked Jagmeet Singh as well, how should the world view India in light of these accusations? It's the most populous nation in the world. It's a democracy. It has deep ties to Canada. It's a rising economic power. It's ostensibly a friendly country, but it's now been accused of killing a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil. How is the world supposed to look at India now?

DICK FADDEN: Well, I think like most countries, you have to look at look at countries in a variety of ways. But I think if these allegations are true, and I have no reason to believe they're not, it puts India in the same category as Russia and Saudi Arabia. And I think that-

MG: Those are countries that are often referred to as rogue nations.

DICK FADDEN: Mm hmm. That's right. Because they have perpetrated extrajudicial killings. I don't think India is quite the same as Russia right now. But this is a very bad sign that India would do this. If they can do it here, they can do it in Australia, they can do it elsewhere. So I think the world needs to worry about that. But the point is we have a lot of ties with India. Our problem is not with the people of India. It's with the current government of India, of the current intelligence community of India. And we're going to have to be, I think, a bit subtle in how we deal with this. But I think in the short term, we're going to have to really limit our relationships with India to make the point that we're very unhappy. And importantly, we're really going to have to work, as Mme Joly said yesterday, with our allies to encourage them to pressure India. I mean, we may or may not be able to resolve this issue, but if we exercise enough pressure, we might be able to convince India to never do this again, either here or anywhere else.

MG: Dick, good to talk to you, as always. Thank you very much. Thank you. Dick Fadden, former director of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service and a former national security adviser to prime ministers Harper and Trudeau. He was in Ottawa. Your CBC News is next. And then we head to Newfoundland to Gros Morne National Park, where a very enthusiastic researcher has me perched over a stream with my feet on two different rocks.

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So, Matt, your feet are spanning 470 million years. The foot on the Red Rock, that's from the mantle, and it was in place on the continent 470 million years ago. And it's from deep in the earth. Your other foot is sitting on carbonate that is precipitating as we speak. That is the newest rock in the park.

MG: My hike through the table and standing on the mantle of the earth coming up in six minutes. I'm Matt Galloway. This is The Current. Stay with us.

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Italian island struggles as 8,000 migrants arrive in one week; The Newfoundland landscape that could hold clues to life on Mars

Guest: Megan Williams

MG: Hello, I'm Matt Galloway. You're listening to The Current. The tiny Italian island of Lampedusa has become accustomed to migrants reaching its shores. The community has reception areas set up for hundreds of people as they arrive by boat from whichever country they're fleeing. But last week saw more than 8000 people arrive, doubling that island's population.

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[Foreign speech]

See if someone here were to think that these global crises that we are tackling and facing could just be solved within Italian borders. That would be a huge mistake. This massive flow of immigrants is something that requires the involvement and responsibility of everyone.

MG: The Italian Prime Minister, Giorgio Meloni, has called for an EU naval blockade and promised to build detention centres for migrants who do not qualify as refugees. The CBC's Megan Williams has just returned from Lampedusa. We've reached her in Rome. Megan, Hello.

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Good morning.

MG: 8000 migrants arriving, as I say, doubling the population of that island. How is Lampedusa handling the influx of that many people in that short of time?

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Not well. This is a tiny, arid speck of land closer to Africa than Italy, with a population of just 5000 people or so. The migrant reception centre, which is this fenced in area at the end of a dusty road, can hold 400 people. So the thousands of exhausted people who have arrived in the past weeks have been forced to sleep on the courts or on the ground spilling out along the road and into town.

MG: When you were there, you spoke with locals. What were they telling you about about what this has been like?

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Well, this is an island that desperate people have been crossing to for decades. But in the past 12 years or so, the numbers have been high. And this year could actually be a record. So far, 130,000 people have crossed the Mediterranean in boats to Italy, and most of them go to Lampedusa. Now, I spoke with an older resident about the situation and Prime Minister George Zimmerman. His response? This is in Italian, but have a listen.

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[Foreign speech]

MG: She sounds exasperated.

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Yeah. She's saying the Italian government has essentially abandoned the islanders. She says local people will always be welcoming not just who they are, but that they're a tiny population and many of them are barely getting by themselves and that the government needs to step in and help solve the problem.

MG: The transport minister for Italy, Matteo Salvini, has called the large number of boats coming from Tunisia, in his words, an act of war and the death of Europe. How is that rhetoric landing in Italy now?

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Right. Well, this is the leader of the far right Lega party who in a government a few years ago, four years ago refused to let migrant rescue boats dock in Italian ports. So it's someone who has been, let's say, confrontational on the issue. You know, I mean, I've been reporting from this island for the past 15 years or so. And what strikes me is how the situation is almost always in a state of crisis. Lampedusa has had migrants coming, coming to its shore for more than two decades. And you'd think that there would be a system in place by now to deal with it. But that just hasn't happened. And in fact, this last time was the worst that I've ever seen it. When I was walking down the street one day, I bumped into the former mayor of Lampedusa, Jose Nicolini, and this is what she told me as to why she thinks things have gotten worse.

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[Foreign speech]

MEGAN WILLIAMS: So she's saying she thinks the current emergency is a manufactured crisis that is useful to the far right government to gain support by scaring people so they can say, Look, look at how Italy is being invaded by migrants. I mean, there are now military police at the centre for the first time, which just adds to the tension, she says. And she also said EU elections are coming up and scenes like an overcrowded migrant centre are useful to the right to gain votes.

MG: How has the European Union responded?

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Well, European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen came on Sunday at the behest of Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, and she promised a new EU action plan. But that honestly looks very similar to past plans that have failed to do much.

MG: It sounds like there are a lot of politicians that are kind of swirling around this situation. What about those who are on those boats who are fleeing, trying to find a better life? What are those migrants saying?

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Well, these are people who have made months long treks across the desert. Many have been kidnapped by traffickers, beaten, the women raped. And this is even before they get on the boats. So their expectations of welcome aren't high. But many said they were shocked by the conditions that greeted them. I spoke with a migrant from Sierra Leone. He's an engineering student in his twenties named Turay. And here's why. He said he risks the journey to Italy.

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He said, After my father, I'm going to take the position, so they will kill me too. So I told my mother, I said, Mom, I deserve to live because there is nobody who can help me to pay for my education or to pursue my educational studies. So there is no way I can settle here. People can take me in. They did the same thing like the way they did my father. So I said, If I succeed, I'll come back and help.

MG: So he sounds like he's worried about, as he said, being killed if he doesn't leave. That would suggest that he would be a good candidate, perhaps for asylum. What are his chances if he's fleeing persecution? What are his chances of finding asylum?

MEGAN WILLIAMS: About 40% of asylum seekers get refugee status in Europe right now.

MG: So that's not particularly good odds for him.

MEGAN WILLIAMS: No, no.

MG: How are the local officials responding to what's happening on the island?

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I came across this crazy scene on the street where a hundred or so residents were blocking the street in front of the mayor's office. They'd heard that tents were being sent to Lampedusa and were scared that this would be the start of turning the island into what they were calling an open air migrant prison. It was also based on what Prime Minister Maloney said about setting up more detention centres. So they phoned the Sicilian chief of police out in the middle of the street.

Speaker 2: He overlay those ord.

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[Foreign speech, cheers, applause]

MG: So that's the Sicilian police chief on the phone there.

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Yeah, they had an amp and they were broadcasting the conversation.

MG: What's going on there. Sounds like people are laughing.

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Well, yeah, they're sort of laughing scornfully. He was telling them that the tents that were coming were for the police, not the migrants, which they didn't believe. And then and then he said he understood why they were concerned, but by blocking the street, they were theoretically committing a crime. And that's when things really started heating up.

Speaker 2: [sc]

[Foreign conversation, noises, arguments]

MG: What's going on there.

MEGAN WILLIAMS: So so that's the police chief's completely losing it. He's yelling at them and saying that if they continue to act like a bunch of goons, then he'd start acting like a cop and have them forcibly removed.

MG: What does that scene tell you about how tense things are?

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Well, things are tense and people are frustrated. But it's it's a mixed reaction because those very same people, including the deputy mayor a few nights earlier, held a vigil for, you know, a child, a baby who had drowned before rescuers could get to get to get to him just off just off the coast of Lampedusa.

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[Sound: Prayers]

MEGAN WILLIAMS: I mean, this you're hearing the vigil here and the whole town shut down for an hour or so to mourn this loss of life, which is, you know, of course, just one of tens of thousands of people who have drowned in the crossing.

MG: That's a real contrast in how people are responding. What sort of town for people who have not been to the island, what sort of town are these migrants coming to? Give us a sense as to what Lampedusa is like outside of this issue.

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Well, this is what made the situation so surreal in a way, is that Lampedusa is a hopping tourist destination. It's got these beautiful, pristine beaches and the main drag and the town is lit up like a Christmas tree. At night. There are bands playing and the bars and restaurants are crammed. But floating almost like ghosts, through this summer party scene are are kids like dazed, 15, 16, 17 year old kids, African kids and worn out flip flops and dirty soccer jerseys looking for food.

MG: You said earlier this in this conversation that that that this has to be a record year for crossings. Lampedusa is at the end of this terrifying, harrowing journey, but it's also in many ways just the beginning. Right. What sort of future would await these migrants once they reach, if they reach the shore?

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Well, a very uncertain one, even even for the people who get refugee status. But among the sub-Saharan Africans arriving, there were a lot of young Tunisians fleeing a country on the social and economic brink. And these are people who likely won't qualify as refugees. And I spoke to a few who told me that they sold everything for a spot on the traffickers boat, and they're terrified of being sent back.

MG: Now, again, this is a harrowing situation, as you said, as somebody who has covered this for 15 years. Even shocking to you. Thank you very much for this.

MEGAN WILLIAMS: Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me.

MG: Megan Williams is the CBC's Italy correspondent.

[Music]

MG: You're listening to the Current on CBC Radio and the CBC Listen app. My name is Matt Galloway. Let me just say that the West Coast of Newfoundland is a beautiful place, picturesque fishing communities, mountains with lush greenery. So it's a bit of a surprise as you're driving around to suddenly come over a hill and see a patch of barren landscape in Gros Morne National Park. The Tablelands, as it's known, is an area where the mantle of the earth is exposed. It's surreal, looking kind of orange in colour, seemingly devoid of life. But the rocks here give scientists a unique research opportunity. I met with one of those scientists recently when I was there in Newfoundland.

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MARCELA WILLIAMS: One minute, guys, and then we will get underway.

MG: Hikers start gathering around the edge of a parking lot in GROSS More national Park. They're in backpacks and carrying walking poles.

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MARCELA WILLIAMS: What is it? The mantle we're looking at?

VOICE 2: The mantle rocks. Yes.

MG: And like us, they're here to see the Tablelands.

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MARCELA WILLIAMS: My name is Marcela Williams, and I will be your interpreter today on the walk here at the Tabelands.

MG: Marcela is dressed in a khaki Parks Canada park ranger uniform and she stands on a boulder signalling the group towards her.

MEGAN WILLIAMS: A few moments where all come off trail. If you want to join me, you're more than welcome. If you're more comfortable on the trail, please feel free to stay there. And with that, I guess we should get going.

MG: This is the official tour, but we have got our own tour guide today.

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MG: Hi, I'm Matt.

PENNY: Hi, I'm Penny.

MG: How are you?

PENNY: I'm good.

MG: Geochemist Penny Morrill has been coming to this area to research for years.

PENNY: Welcome to the Tabelands.

MG: She's wearing hiking boots, a ball cap and T-shirt, and she is fired up to show us around.

SOUNDCLIP

MG: Okay, so can you describe what it is that I'm looking at and what how different it is from what's behind us?

PENNY: Okay, excellent. So looking forward, we're looking at orange, almost barren rock. And this rock came from Earth's mantle. It is out of equilibrium with our atmosphere because it's from the mantle. So it's weathering as we speak, but it also contains a lot of a lot of metals that are generally toxic to plants. So you can see it mostly looks barren, except for the few plants that have the ability to withstand these high concentrations of metals. Now, if I turn and look in the opposite direction of the table and you see this lovely forested area and this is not the table ends, but this is rock called gabbro, and you can see that lots there's lots of vegetation, lots of plants can grow on this rock.

MG: Where are you going to take us? This trail goes up this way. Where are we going?

PENNY: So we're going up the trail. It's about a 20 minute walk, and we're going to end up basically in Winter House Canyon, where we will stop at where I do most of my research.

MG: Let's go.

MG: The trail is open and barren, stretching along the base of towering mountains. Penny bounds ahead.

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MG: Just while we're walking up, just describe the work that you do. What is it that you do?

PENNY: So I'm basically a low temperature geochemist who looks at extreme life in high environments. So we were interested in trying to figure out could anything even live in this extreme environment. And so the first year we came out would have been 2009, and we just brought out life detection instruments, instruments that they use on the International Space Station to figure out how clean it is. And so many ways we brought out these this equipment and we started swabbing different surfaces and we were able to detect biomolecules, ATP, the molecule, the energy molecule of life. We we're like, whoa, there really is life here. And then we started filtering the water and then we looked at the filters and we found we found bacteria on the filters. And so all of a sudden it completely opened our eyes to the potential that this very high water has very low in organic carbon, very low nutrients. It's actually supporting life.

MG: This discovery led to a new question if life could survive in the harsh conditions found here in the Tablelands, what might be happening on other planets.

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PENNY: And so if you think about looking for life on Mars, the likelihood that there was life or current life on the surface is pretty low just because, you know, solar winds and radiation and stuff like that. So really, if there might be life on Mars, it would most likely be in the subsurface, which is protected from those things. The cool thing is, if you want to look for life on Mars in the subsurface, you're most likely going to have to drill. But what's great about these springs is that basically they bring the groundwater up to the surface for you. And so if you want to look for life on Mars, you want to look for a place that is habitable but also accessible. And as a result, the Canadian Space Agency funds my research. And I've also had NASA's postdoctoral fellows come up and do research here as well. So there is general space type research interest in this kind of research. You can hear we're going uphill because we're getting a little bit more wind in.

MG: The trail leads you to a striking valley carved out by glaciers. The peaks of the mountains are completely levelled off. That's where it gets its name. The table ends at the end of the path. There's a wooden sign with a photo.

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PENNY: That's a picture of me from 2009 doing research here. But in the background, that picture. It was my very first graduate student. Her name is now Alisha Boehner. And so I love that there's a picture of me and Natalie from the early years of research.

MG: Sorry, but that's just awesome that like, there's a photo of you here in the park that everybody walks by that we'll look at that you just came and you pointed very proudly at.

PENNY: I am so humbled by this. I didn't know they did this. One day I think it was just a couple of years ago, one of my son's friend's mothers took a picture and sent it to me and said, Did you know this was here? And I said, No. And she was like, My son is in awe, so I'll take you down to the spring just to watch your footing, because it's a little bit- well, we're off path now.

MG: We hopped down some rocks just off the path to the edge of a small river.

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PENNY: It's right beside a waterfall. So you're going to hear a lot of gushing noise. Okay, so we've arrived at what I call Winter House Canyon Spring two.

MG: Penny stands pointing to a small pool of water.

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PENNY: And this water here has a PH between 12 and 13. It has no oxygen at it because it's anoxic. And so what's cool about this is I'm looking at the pool here, and if I just turn my back and you look at the river, that river has a PR of between eight and nine. So we're looking at a huge difference.

MG: That lack of oxygen in the spring is actually a good sign when it comes to the prospect of life on Mars. If life exists here and the hostile conditions of this water, it just might exist in a similar environment on another planet.

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PENNY: Let's just walk away from the water for a second.

MG: We continue our scramble over loose rock deeper into the valley towards another of Penny's research sites.

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MG: So this area is part of Grossman National Park, and this is the 50th anniversary of this being named as a national park. What do you want people to know? You spent a lot of time here. What do you want people to know about why this place is so special?

PENNY: This park was seminal in the development of the theory of plate tectonics. So I always say this. It might sound silly, but I always think of the theory of plate tectonics to geologists and society, equivalent to the discovery of DNA, to biology. It explains so much about how Earth is formed and the processes that go on and just explain so many things that were just unexplainable before. And so Grossman demonstrates the process of plate tectonics, and we get to see an ancient or proto Atlantic Ocean. Here we get to see that in the rocks.

MG: It's also just like a staggeringly beautiful place.

PENNY: That is that is not lost on me or the visitors. If possible, I think everyone should try to visit. Gros Morne National Park. And it's in it's just gorgeous that the tides are beautiful, the sunsets are beautiful, and the climbs are exhilarating but doable. And the people make it a really, really special place.

MG: You've been doing this work for how long?

PENNY: Since 2009. So 14 years I've been coming out here.

MG: So, like, people will have heard as we're walking along and you're talking, you're unbelievably enthusiastic about the work that you do and you have a shirt that at the bottom of it, it's a stay curious where it is. Like, what's the lesson in that? Do you think the enthusiasm that you have, but the curiosity that you have still for the work that you're doing and what you don't know about this place?

PENNY: Wow, that's a great question. So I hope that my curiosity is contagious because I'm standing on the shoulder of shoulders of giants. And and I want people and my students to continue the kind of work that I do, but not even just just to ask questions. Asking questions will solve many of society's problems if we just keep asking questions.

MG: Thanks for answering our questions and for bringing us out here. It's been it's been awesome to meet you.

PENNY: It's been wonderful to meet you, too.

MG: How shall we get out of here?

PENNY: Okay, so if we just head straight and then there's a little path if you head to the right.

MG: Penny Marshall is a geochemist at Memorial University in Saint John's.

[Music]

MG: If you're looking for another reason to head to the west coast of Newfoundland, the Gros Morne in Fall fest starts on Thursday and cow head Newfoundland and Labrador. You're listening to Daniel Payne, who is one of the people who will be performing there. Well, coming up after your regional update.

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Knock on the door and that often as soon as they see me, they like the freeze. And I just say, hi, I'm from Canada, I'm happy to see you. And Ukrainian are Russian and they start crying it. Like half of them would just start crying or the other half would just like smile and laugh and hug me like I had to do nothing. Just being there was huge for them.

MG: Guillaume Vermette is a humanitarian clown, a man who brings little joy and compassion to people living through the worst of situations. And he'll be here to describe his recent work in Ukraine with everyone from children to soldiers. That's in 90 seconds. I'm Matt Galloway and this is the Current. Stay with us.

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A humanitarian clown’s work in Ukraine

Guest: Guillaume Vermette

MG: Hello again. I'm Matt Galloway and you're listening to The Current.

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4:00 am in Lviv, Ukraine. I hear an explosion. Probably a missile. In any case, it wasn't far from our house.

MG: That's Guillaume Vermette reading us a message that he posted on Facebook last month. He had left his home in Quebec to volunteer in Ukraine.

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GUILLAUME VERMETTE: There's no electricity in our street now. I get a text message from a Ukrainian friend, 'Quick, hide in the toilet.' The toilet is the safest place in our flat with the strongest wall. We stayed there for about an hour waiting, being scared and hearing other explosions nearby. This morning I put on my clown costume and go back to making the children laugh as usual. But this morning I have the impression that I needed more than they do.

MG: Now you listen to that and you might get the impression that Guillaume Vermette is not perhaps your traditional aid worker. No, that's true. He is a humanitarian clown. I mean, he is the founder of the Philanthropic Caravan. We've reached him back home in Trois Rivieres. Guillaume, good morning.

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: Good morning, Matt. Thanks for having me. Thank you for being here.

MG: Many questions to ask you. The first is what is a humanitarian clown?

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: Long story short, I try to contribute to people well-being with what I like to do and what I can do. And I went to clown school, so I do Clowning circus. But I also studied psychology. So I mixed the passion, knowledge, and I tried to make a positive difference in people life. It brought me in more than 40 countries. Been doing that for about 18 years. I usually go to refugee camps, orphanages, hospitals, nursing home, etc..

MG: What are some of the places that you've been that you've done this work?

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: The place I have been the most is Russia. I've been there 20 times working in orphanages. It's a very important place to my heart. It's a weird timing to say that, but many of my dearest friends are in Russia. I also worked a lot with Syrian refugees in various countries.

MG: And so in some ways, that answers the question of why you wanted to go to Ukraine. You've been to a lot of places where conflict is unfolding. But tell me about that decision to go to this nation in the wake of the Russian invasion.

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: Oh, it's a mix of emotion and reason. And you can imagine it's a very personal one. The way I talked about Russia earlier, I feel like Russia is my second home, my second family and many of my Russian friends currently are going in jail because they're protesting against the war or they're fleeing the country. And I used to go into Russia three times a year to work with orphans there, orphans that I've seen grown up. I'm like a big brother for them since years, and now I cannot see them anymore. I'm shattered and really angry, sad about all this situation, this war. And I wanted to go to Ukraine, but I was waiting for the right opportunity and I got an invitation. Actually, our organisation received an invitation to go to Ukraine. But it's a country at war. There's the risk, of course, but there's also a lot of issues and nuance legally. So I decided to go on my own personal project, volunteering, bringing one of my best friend Maggie, but yet was also a humanitarian clown. And with our own money we had a little vacation in Ukraine and this organisation we we helped over there is called Showband Trust. They're from Scotland, he believes make pizza, not war. So they do pizza. We do clowning. It seems like a weird mix, but at the end it's such a beautiful and powerful partnership and team because our goal is exactly the same.

MG: So you're in Lviv, which is a city that I mean, we've talked to a lot of people in Lviv that life in many ways has gone on like normal with the shadow of a war in the distance and then perhaps getting a lot closer on occasion. What was life like for you there in that city?

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: Live is fascinating. It's a western part of Ukraine, so you cannot be more far from the war inside Ukraine and Lviv. It feels like an oasis of peace and a middle of a war zone. People are really trying to have a normal life. They're like grasping on their dignity and they're hoping for a normal and peaceful life. If you don't know when you get there, everything looks normal. People go to restaurants, they go to the grocery store, they walk in the streets, they go to school until there is an air strike, air raid alarm. It's that sound everywhere. And in the city, we. Two and then is connected to an app that tells you go to a shelter. Your overconfidence is your weakness. It's it's arrived there. I think first hour had the air raid alarm. So there's always this stress, this anxiety, this possibility that there will be an explosion nearby. So I think that behind the smiles of the people being so courageous and resilient and trying to have a peaceful life and they should have one and they deserve it. I think there's always some kind of stress and so much emotion. Like every smiles, every people I met, there's behind a smile, their stories, there's drama. They lost people. They lost homes were is disgusting. It was a very an emotionally confronting experience for me to be there and live that.

MG: You said in that post you were scared as well when you were hiding in the toilet with the air raid sirens blaring.

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: Oh, of course. Of course. I was scared. I was in the toilet waiting and laughing with my friends. Weird and this kind of situation now you'd never know how you will react. I'm a clown, so I guess my defence mechanism is humour. So I started to make jokes and having fun with my friends. But I could hear the explosion like really close to the home. Actually. I was scared then. It's their everyday life. They used to it. It's fascinating.

MG: And so in that setting, what is the role of a humanitarian clown? What are you there to do?

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: That's what I had to figure out because it's a new one for me. Ukraine's a new one for me. Being in the war zone is a new one for me. I'm used to work with people that fled the country already. They outside the country, they're starting to have a new life. They're full of trauma. And we are specialists to help them heal their trauma to become normal children again. What I mean by normal children is like often we in encounter kids that after the war they forgot how to to smile, to laugh, to play. And we have various tools to help and come back to that. But I've never been in an experience where I had to do I had to do nothing for a success like that because the trauma they're inside in the middle of a trauma, it's happening right now and people are fleeing Ukraine by millions. The only fact that I get there that I write and they see me, that silly, colourful weirdo smiling and being like, Hey, hi, I'm happy to see you. I'd like to have a nice time with you. That was enough to make a lot of people cry and hug me, just being there because like, everybody's fleeing my country. I'm trying to have a normal life. You get here, you smile to me, you come from Canada, You took a plane from Canada. I had so many just incredible demonstration of love and gratefulness and gifts and even like some ceremony and song, people were so grateful and happy. It was a bit challenging because I feel I had to do less than usual and I'm used to do so much. But I could have been there not as a clown, but just as a normal person demonstrating solidarity to this horror of a situation they're going through. But clowning, of course, brings more to what I can do. They're specialists of childhood and to spread laughter, smile, love, hope, self-esteem through various games and circus activities and and clowning. This stuff that I worked on for 18 years.

MG: Paint us a bit of a picture of what that looks like, because I think for people in their minds, they think of a clown. You got the big wig and the red nose and Hong Kong and you know, the horn and whatever like that. Is that what you're bringing to Ukraine?

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: In my opinion, somebody who went to clown school has been doing that for a long time. I think that clowning is not funny, is not for children, and a clown costume doesn't exist. It's a very simplistic way of explaining what's a clown. It can be funny, it can be for kids and it can wear a costume. But that's not important. I don't have a face painting most of the time. I don't even have a nose. I have, yes, some fancy colourful clothes. But it's not about being funny. It's all about connecting with people through clowning. It's a great way of connecting people. It's like a language. Clowning is a type of theatre that is really physical, that is really emotional, So it helps me to fast forward the connection, to build a connection with people just by looking at them in the eyes with the proper emotion. It's it's just such a great tool and that's one of the things I have in my pockets. But usually what I do is I bring all the kids and circle and we develop a way to do games with kids that don't require any language. Anybody can understand, anybody can participate. And these games are well taught with specialists to contribute, to help, to heal trauma. So everybody, whatever their skills, whatever their gender, whatever where they're from, they can participate and they will they will experience some success and the game and an opportunity to express themselves. So it's really good for their self-esteem, their confidence, and to heal the trauma.

MG: As a clown, you're known as Yahoo!

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: Yes, it's my clown name since always, I couldn't keep my normal name, like Guillaume, but doesn't travel very well.

MG: I just wonder what you're able to do in that persona in terms of create that connection that you wouldn't be able to do as Guillaume.

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: I think I will always benefit more than I will be able to give in this kind of job. And I think being a humanitarian or sometimes we say therapeutical clowning is more therapeutical for the clown in person. The process of becoming a clown, you have to work on five, let's call them skills or values. There's authenticity, simplicity, joy, openness and lightness. So it's just basically working on your skills of connecting with yourself and with people. So is it really a persona? I'm not sure about that. I think being a clown allows me to be more myself and to do less, to have more result and by result and talking about human emotion, sharing the emotion in a very simple and authentic way. And it it's great to empower people. They they feel seen, they feel love, and they feel like they share a fun, joyful time with a human being. And sometimes these simple interaction are enough to change your life. And it did change my life so many times.

MG: I want to ask you about how to change the kid's life, but you talked about that even in that little Facebook post that you read that having hidden in the washroom while the bombs and missiles are blowing off around you, that you had the impression that you needed the clown costume more than the kids did. So how has this changed your life doing this work?

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: I do the most amazing job in the planet. You know, a lot of people picture my job and you're like, Oh, Guillaume, you're so courageous. It must be so difficult. How can you do it? You see so many difficult realities, etc.. But I love it so much. It's difficult to not feel fulfilled or some kind of joy when, like, sometimes I don't want to do my job like anybody else. I wake up in the morning and I don't feel fresh today or I had maybe a bad night or whatever. Something happened in my life. But as soon as I get there in a refugee camp with tens or hundreds of kids that are just so happy to see me. The need is real, the need is huge. And the answer I get all the time is huge. Smile and laughter. It's like an addiction. It means so much to my life. But what I bring back from Ukraine, of course, is not only positive, like I'm still processing and I still don't fully grasp or understand what I've been through. Like war shouldn't exist and being in the middle of it and, like, meeting people that their life has been destroyed by it and the stress of the missile and the exposure that any time. Having seen soldiers with no arms anymore because I've visited many hospital as well, like hugging me without their arms as strong as they could and crying just because I was there. All these emotion and moments feel unreal, if I went in a movie. I cannot accept that war is a thing. It's a thing to intellectualise it like I do usually back home when I hear it on the news. But to go through it, to live it, I still need to process.

MG: Tell me more about that hospital. You made a Facebook post about that, about going to a hospital for wounded soldiers. What did you see there?

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: I've seen people destroyed. I've seen people who sacrifice everything for their country or their family and the hope of having a normal life in Ukraine. And they all have various reason. But what I've seen is the consequence of it. Like they lost limbs, they lost their friends, they lost their smile, their mental health. It's these many soldiers that I've seen, maybe most of them. I don't think they will ever have normal life. I don't I'm not even sure they're going to figure out how to be happy. Like I've seen a lot of distressed people in my life in need and hospital and all this sort of situation. But these soldiers I've seen are among the most traumatic and damaged people I have seen. I cannot start to picture and imagine what they've been through. It's horrible.

MG: And so what was their reaction when those people who have been through hell, as you're describing it, see you walk into the room as a clown?

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: While they spend all their day doing nothing, from what I understand, in their small room being lonely and waiting and they see this weirdo knocking on the door like, Hi, I'm happy to see you. And I remember my Ukrainian friend that don't know much about clowning at first when we started. Like, who's that? What did he do? Like, they were unsure. Like, are you really going to knock on the door? An adult soldier. They Won't like it. Like they- No, no, no. You cannot do that. Trust me, I've been doing that for a long time. Just trust me. I knock on the door. And that often, as soon as they see me, they like the freeze. And I just say, Hi, I'm from Canada. I'm happy to see you in Ukrainian or Russian because I speak Russian language. And they, they start crying. Like half of them would just start crying or the other half would just like smile and laugh and hug me like I had to do nothing. Just being there was huge for them.

MG: That's a lot. I mean, when you think of what they've been through and what your role is in this, you asked yourself in another Facebook post and you were talking about war and talking about the horror of war, and you asked, 'Who am I in all of this?' What is the answer that you ended up with when you think about what your role is in in those sort of situations?

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: It's a very good question, and I'm still processing that. But I guess I'm just a citizen. I'm just a citizen of that world. I'm just a member of the human society and a dreamer and a peaceful person. I work for peace. I work for peace and love. And I don't see the solution. I don't know where to start. I don't I would like to just end all the wars and all hatred on the on the planet. I'm, genuinely my dream, my motive to do what I do is to change the world. I'm angry at the world. Sometimes I hate it so much I find it so violent that the only thing I see- The only thing I found that I can do that makes sense is to try to change it. I don't know if I will ever succeed. I don't think I will ever succeed by myself, maybe with an army of clowns with our organisation. But if there's one hope of succeeding, I think it start with kindness and human connection and solidarity. So my role in Ukraine was just to bring a little bit of human connection, love, joy, solidarity, and what else can I do? That's all I have to offer.

MG: Is that the answer to the question that people might ask about why it is that a clown needs to be there in a war zone, that those people who have been through so much, there's all sorts of things that they need basic things to to sustain life, a sense of it, whether it's kids or adults, a sense of stability, a sense that that normal life can be regained. And people might say, 'Well, you know, what is a clown doing in that situation?' But that idea of of your own contribution, is that the answer to that question?

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: There's so many great answer to the tea to this question and so many needs we can answer as clowns. But one of the most important is childhood. And when there is a humanitarian crisis, our first reflex is like, Oh, let's call and, let's call food. Let's bring people for food, for accommodation, for health care. But nobody like, hey, let's do something for childhood. Like, I've been in so many like refugee and humanitarian crisis and it's never a priority. And I think it should be. I think it should be because children are our future. Childhood is a basic human need and right there. They're the hope for change, for peace, for for all the positive change on the planet. And when they start doing something about childhood, it's usually a bunch of volunteer without training. Sometimes teenagers, sometimes people they. It's really hard to work with children. I'm not saying it's not beautiful initiative like I've seen amazing teenager initiative volunteering initiatives for for children in crisis zone. But it's really hard to work with children there's so much at stake there's so much to consider for their mental health development so specialising in that field. That's what I've been trying to do for for many years, have a toolbox of activities of how to interact with children on how to help them heal, because the injuries of the war, yes, are physical, but the long term injuries are trauma, psychological, emotional, and it's our generation and we need to attack that as well.

MG: What's the cost on you in doing this work? I mean, again, you're seeing trauma, but you're also carrying some of that trauma. And what you've seen, whether it's in Ukraine or whether it's in refugee camps or the other places that you've been around the world. So who's taking care of you and what's the cost on on on you in doing this work?

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: And I've never I never work alone after many mistakes of doing more than I should have been doing, I've learned to stop when needed to ask for help because I do see difficult stuff. I have, yeah, some kind of trauma. But it's difficult for me to use the word trauma because I've seen I see actual people with PTSD and huge trauma, the minor microscopic trauma. Like if I hear a firework, my first instinct is, Oh, explosions! And stuff like that. But it come down very quickly. But if I opened a window back home, like, since I'm back from Ukraine and I hear a car going very fast, my instinct is thinking it's the missile raid, air raid alarm starting. It's small stuff like that. But it's mostly it's like my my heart is and many pieces is is spread in many pieces around the world. A big part of my heart is now in Ukraine. There's in Haiti, there's in Russia. It's a bit everywhere. It's share with people that are going through horrible situation. And I feel powerless. So the more and more I go, I love it. I keep hope. I do my best. It fulfilled me, but I don't see the end of all this problem and I wish I could help everybody. It's difficult to have genuine, deep connection with people all around the world and not being able to be with them all the time. That's a difficult bit for me.

MG: Me, you're on your way to Jordan now, to a refugee camp.

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: Yes, I'm on my way to Jordan in one week. I'm going there for one month with the centre of a caravan. We're a team of five, including a Syrian refugee person from the Syrian immigrant from Montreal. And it's going to be the first of many for our organisation and Jordan working and refugee camps. It's a collaboration with Je Veux Jouer, I want to play, a beautiful Syrian-Quebec organisation to bring a normal moment of childhood for the refugees.

MG: And you're able to remain optimistic. And in the things that you have seen, the news is bad around the world and you see this firsthand. I just want to- you're able to remain to have some sense of optimism despite what you're seeing?

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: I see various level. Like on a global perspective, it's really difficult. It's really difficult. But on a human perspective, on a one to one perspective, like if I focus on the global things, hope is really hard to keep, but I stay positive because I see huge success and victories and life changing moments with individuals. Human connection. This is where I put my focus. If I want to survive and carry on doing this work for many years. But you know what? What's been the most difficult for me recently is it was in Ukraine is have a deep love for the Russian people. This war they didn't choose it, the Russian people. I have many friends there and and it's hearing a lot of Ukrainian, another one generalise there's a various opinions in the Ukrainian population, of course, but many people saying stuff like the only good Russian is the dead Russian. Or showing me like the video of explosion in Moscow and they have a huge smile on their face. Like I know people in Moscow. It's horrible. The hatred and the violence from Russia is feeding hatred and violence of other people. And it's, it's like, how can I put it? It's a virus that spreads. And I think the only answer to that is to try to spread a virus of love and joy. That's the only solution I see.

MG: I'm really glad to have the chance to talk to you, but the work that you're doing, Gil, thank you very much.

GUILLAUME VERMETTE: Thank you so much, bye.

MG: Guillaume Vermette is a humanitarian clown from Quebec. His next destination is Jordan, where he will be working with Syrian refugees. That is The Current for this Tuesday. q's up next on CBC Radio One. Yesterday in the building where I'm sitting right now, the CBC Broadcasting Centre, bit of history was made. It was the first professional Women's Hockey League draft and they brought in a bit of star power to kick things off. Billie Jean King, of course, made history for women on the tennis court and wears those great iconic glasses of hers, announced the first draft pick from the stage. And so we're going to leave you this morning with the words of a sporting great Billie Jean King. I'm Matt Galloway. Thanks for listening to The Current. We'll see you tomorrow.

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[Applause]

Thank you, everyone. Oh, wow. What a day. A trailblazer is one that blazes a trail to lead and include others. The first person to do something or go somewhere, who shows that it is also possible for other people. Trailblazing is bold. It's brave. And it can be very scary and lonely. But it's worth it. It's really worth it is worth it for each one of us who have fought so hard for this day. And it's worth it for the generations of girls and women who will come behind us. This is an incredible moment. But it's not about a single moment. It's about a movement finally giving women professional hockey players the structure, the support and the platform they deserve that hockey deserves. I proudly stand here celebrating these trailblazers. And the best part? We are just getting started. The PWHL is just getting started. And with a heart full of excitement. Man, I am excited. It's time to drop the inaugural puck. Yes, we have work to do for all of our fans. Our job now is earning, earning investment of your time and your support. We have to earn that and that is a challenge we happily accept. Thank you to every woman who played this game who won't be lacing up her skates, but will be right there alongside us. To those who work two jobs bought our own equipment who didn't get paid for glory or a paycheque simply for the love of this magnificent game. To the leagues that came before and everyone who dreamed what today could look like. This is for all of us. And with that, I'm being told the first pick is in with the first overall pick in the inaugural Professional Women's Hockey League Draft. Minnesota Selects: Taylor Heise.

[applause and cheers]

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Tuesday September 19, 2023 Episode Transcript

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