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The Current Transcript for May 18, 2023

Host: Matt Galloway

STORIES FROM THIS EPISODE

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ALBERTA WILDFIRES

SOUNDCLIP

[kids playing]

MATT GALLOWAY: Hi, I'm Matt Galloway. This is a special edition of The Current from Alberta. We're in Edmonton at the River Cree Resort. These kids look like they're having fun, but this is a hard time for their families. Those families are from Sturgeon Lake Cree Nation, and they're staying at this hotel because wildfires forced them out of their homes. As of this morning, just over 90 wildfires are burning in this province, threatening homes and communities and displacing tens of thousands of people.

SOUNDCLIP

[sounds of kids playing fade up]

MG: So as these kids run around a large theatre, their parents wait in line to meet volunteers as well as employees from Indigenous Services Canada. Many of these people left their homes with nothing.

SOUNDCLIP

[camera clicking]

FEMALE SPEAKER: Oh, you're looking down.

MG: The volunteers are replacing ID cards lost in the fire.

SOUNDCLIP

FEMALE SPEAKER: Here we go.

MALE SPEAKER: That's good.

FEMALE SPEAKER: Okay. Thank you. I'm actually really happy to be here. And we're from Enoch Cree Nation, my staff and I. When they asked us to help, I didn't even question it. I just said we're in. We had no clue what we were going to do. We had no clue what we were bringing. We just said, yeah, we're in. No worries, we're here. So.

MG: You kind of got choked up, though, when you were talking.

FEMALE SPEAKER: I did.

MG: Why?

FEMALE SPEAKER: I'm just thinking of the people and what they're going through, right? You know, like you're coming into Edmonton and you're not used to being here and then you're here with nothing. You're coming with clothes on your back and then you're here and you have nothing and you're wondering like, what's going to happen with us? Where is my family going to go? And here we are able to provide this service. At least, you know, it's a little bit of comfort. It's not a major comfort, but it is something that we can help with. So I'm really happy to be here.

MG: Darren Willen Thomas is one of the evacuees. He's just had his new status card photo taken.

SOUNDCLIP

DARREN WILLEN THOMAS: : Everyone was telling me there's a big fire and stuff. So.

MG: How long did you have to get out?

DARREN WILLEN THOMAS: Not long.

MG: Yeah.

DARREN WILLEN THOMAS: Like five, 10 minutes.

MG: So what did you take in five or 10 minutes?

DARREN WILLEN THOMAS: I couldn't take anything because I was at work. So it's all at home.

MG: And do you know what is left?

DARREN WILLEN THOMAS: No, I don't, because I've been getting pictures here and there and they're saying my house was burned down, but I don't know if it's not. So.

MG: So that's been a long time that you've been out.

DARREN WILLEN THOMAS: Yeah.

MG: And so you have no idea when you're going to be able to get back.

DARREN WILLEN THOMAS: No.

MG: What happens between now and then? What are you going to be doing?

DARREN WILLEN THOMAS: Probably just stay in my hotel, hang out.

MG: It must be really awful not being able to go home.

DARREN WILLEN THOMAS: Yeah, I know. It's my home. I've been there how long? I don't know what's going on with my home.

MG: Yeah. That's really tough.

DARREN WILLEN THOMAS: Yeah, it is.

MG: A young woman named Kiara is pushing a stroller and keeping one eye on the kids who are roaring around.

SOUNDCLIP

[kids playing]

KIARA: I had like probably not even 20 minutes to leave.

MG: So what did you take with you?

KIARA: Just a big jug of water, milk and just a blanket. That's it.

MG: It must have been really scary.

KIARA: Yeah, it was.

MG: Yeah. And so where have you been since then?

KIARA: Hotel. Been in a hotel for about a week now.

MG: And what's that like?

KIARA: Oh, I miss home right now. Hotel ain’t it. I wish we were home. Like living in a hotel is not fun.

MG: What do you miss?

KIARA: The lake. I miss the lake and the view and having comfort and feeling safe at home.

MG: Can you describe your home? Describe what it's like and what you love about being there.

KIARA: The nature and the birds. It’s so peaceful in the morning. Like you go outside and you just breathe in nice. You can smell the nice lake and yeah, very peaceful in the area.

MG: How are you doing in all of this?

KIARA: I'm keeping calm and, you know, staying strong. And that's all I could do right now is just keep calm.

MG: Rhonda Coley is lucky enough to have family in Edmonton. She's from Fox Creek.

SOUNDCLIP

[door opening, dog barking, people talking]

MG: Now, she and her 27-year-old son and her dog are staying with her parents.

SOUNDCLIP

RHONDA COLEY: I actually manage a hotel and we had an alert that Friday evening. You know, we were told to kind of be ready to go at a moment's notice. And we had probably about 25 to 30 guests in the hotel at the time. It was about 8:30 in the morning. My phone went off and everything went crazy. It's just a whirlwind of emotions right now. You just don't know. You don't know when you're going home. Like right now, we've been told basically not to expect to go home any time in the near foreseeable future. So I mean, we don't know. Are we talking days? Are we talking weeks? You know, do we have a home to go back to? You know, that's in the back of your mind as well. You know, you want to believe that everything's going to be fine, but you just don't know. You know, everybody's just stepped up and, you know, everybody's just been amazing. The community and other communities, you know, they're wondering now what are we going to do? People haven't been working for 11 days. And, you know, it's great the government funding did help out, you know, to get you through for hotels and stuff like that. But, you know, as time goes on, that money's running out quick. And from here on, what do we do? You know, you're not working. You don't have an income coming in and you still have bills to pay. It's tough on people. I have my moments. You know, I've broken down a couple of times already. You look at pictures of, you know, you look at pictures of the fire and videos and you realize that, you know, that's at your doorstep at any time. You may not have a home to go home to. So it's just, you know, you deal with it one day at a time. You know, and it's not just this year either. You know, we've had other years. You know, the Fort McMurray fire, you know, other fires, and this seems to be a norm now, unfortunately. You know, you didn't hear of this before. This didn't happen. And now it just seems to be a common thing.

MG: We're visiting Kayla McKennitt next. She's also from Fox Creek. She, her kids and their dogs had to flee in early May.

SOUNDCLIP

[dogs barking]

MG: I'm Matt.

KAYLA MCKENNITT: I'm Kayla. Nice to meet you.

MG: Thanks for taking the time to talk to us.

KAYLA MCKENNITT: Yeah, no worries.

MG: I appreciate it.

MG: Kayla has been staying in her RV parked in her sister's driveway ever since. Her husband stayed home to fight the fire. She puts on a brave face, but you can tell she's carrying a ton of stress.

SOUNDCLIP

KAYLA MCKENNITT: It's been a roller coaster. A lot of bad days, actually. A lot of it. There's a couple of good days in between, but mostly just taking it day by day, honestly.

MG: Can I ask you what a bad day is?

KAYLA MCKENNITT: I haven't really been able to talk to my husband because he's out of cell service. And then when I do talk to him, it's very, very quick. And him telling me that the fire is coming to town and he doesn't have time to talk and he loves me and he'll call me later. And that's a bad day.

MG: What is he doing there? Tell us about your husband.

KAYLA MCKENNITT: He is a captain of the Fox Creek Fire Department. He is delegating crews to go where they need to go. He's pretty much managing crews and also hands on with everything. I'm not 100% on what he's doing because he doesn't have time to tell me all that in detail.

MG: Has he told you anything? I mean, the fact that he can't talk to you because he doesn't have time says something about the scale of what's going on. Has he told you anything about how intense things are back home?

KAYLA MCKENNITT: No. He tries to keep it positive. He knows that a positive mindset is very crucial. So he doesn't let the negativity get into the conversations. And he also, I'm sure, doesn't want to worry us.

MG: What do you know of it? I mean, if he's not telling you, word gets around. What do you know about what's happening back home?

KAYLA MCKENNITT: Well, I know that the fire is increasing in size. It is coming closer to our town. As of today, I know that it has reached a lake called Iosegun Lake, which is where I take my family. We take our family camping a lot and it's a special place for us. And it's pretty devastating to know that it might not be there when we return.

MG: Do you worry about him?

KAYLA MCKENNITT: I do worry about him. Yeah. It's engulfed with smoke. And, you know, anything can happen. If there's no visibility, they don't know. They're trying to chase the fire, but it's so smoky that they can't see much, right? So anything can happen. I know he'll be as safe as he possibly can.

MG: It's just got to be really hard for you. You’re here and he's there.

KAYLA MCKENNITT: Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. Actually, My son is having a bad day today. He's missing home and he's missing his dad.

MG: And what do you tell your kids about it? I mean, we keep running into people who life was fine and then the next, like they had five minutes, 10 minutes, half an hour, an hour to get out and life goes upside down. What do you tell your kids?

KAYLA MCKENNITT: We've been, that's one of the reasons why we're staying at my sister's, with family. We're trying to keep it as normal as we can. I don't want to, you know, they're kids. You don't really… That's kind of adult conversations. You don't want to worry them too much. They knew when we did leave to take, you know, important things to them because a fire was, you know, around us and it might reach our house. So they knew to take a couple of essential things that were close to them. So they do know what's going on, but only to an extent.

MG: You're a lot more stoic than I think a lot of people would be in this kind of situation.

KAYLA MCKENNITT: Yeah.

MG: Maybe it's kind of like that, you know, this one thing where you’re kind of cruising on top and your feet are churning under the water that people don't see or something like that.

KAYLA MCKENNITT: Yeah. I just am more of a, you know, yeah, I don't know how or why I'm like this, but I am grateful that I'm not, you know, getting too stressed out because we can't control the situation. And Mother Nature is at hand here. And we just got to pray that the wind doesn't push it too far into town and that their defences that they set up hopefully will hold. And yeah, they've done everything they can and they continue to do everything they can. So yeah, we just got to, you know, keep faith. That's all you can do.

[car door opening and shutting]

MG: We're on our way now to meet Ed Struzik. He is the author of several books that help explain why exactly this fire season is so intense so early and what we have to do to actually respond to it, but also to live with fire. Ed's latest book is “Dark Days at Noon: The Future of Fire”, and we are headed to his house now.

SOUNDCLIP

[GPS]: Continue on Saskatchewan Drive Northwest for one kilometre.

MG: Here we are. Here he is.

ED STRUZIK: How are you?

MG: Nice to see you.

ED STRUZIK: Good to see you too.

MG: Thank you for having us at your house.

ED STRUZIK: Oh, it’s wonderful.

MG: How’s everything?

ED STRUZIK: This was terrible this morning.

MG: Yeah.

ED STRUZIK: Yeah. We had all the windows shut and the air purifiers on.

MG: Yesterday was unbelievable.

ED STRUZIK: Yeah, it was not a good day.

MG: So what do we want to do here?

ED STRUZIK: A little walk down here.

MG: Mm hmm.

ED STRUZIK: Like this really, this little forest here is essentially a microcosm of what you see in the boreal forest everywhere. So what I thought I would show you is essentially the state of the forest. The boreal forest is really in terrible shape because of drought.

MG: Let's have a look.

ED STRUZIK: Yeah. Okay.

MG: Let's go for a walk.

SOUNDCLIP

[walking sounds]

ED STRUZIK: We're on a Saskatchewan drive by the university. We're right beside the river valley. The North Saskatchewan is just down below us. And we are really in the midst of about a 20, 25-year drought here in western Canada. It's been epic. And it's not just western Canada. It's all the way down to New Mexico, along that Rocky Mountain trench. And there's really no sign that things are going to improve. And you can see here. This used to be indigenous encampments down here and they regularly burned.

MG: What people call like prescribed burning.

ED STRUZIK: Yeah, yeah. For them, it's really a way of cultivating root vegetables to grow things like Yarrow. Fireweed is one of the first plants to rise up. If you ever get a chance, the sprouts taste a lot like asparagus. These are wonderful.

MG: And so if that burning isn't happening, what's the risk there?

ED STRUZIK: So the risk is that you get a lot of this dead wood. You can see it here. It's just been buried underneath all this fresh growth. And so consider it as kindling. And if lightning strikes or like a homeless person starts a fire or some kids have a party down here, you know, after graduation or just on any night of the year, it can really take off. And it's extraordinary in conditions where you've got hot, dry, windy weather, it can get away on you very, very quickly. So here last year, we had a big thunderstorm pass through and hit this tree.

MG: I mean, it's all blackened on the bottom and side.

ED STRUZIK: Right. And you can see actually the fire department came in here and it was climbing and starting to move. So they actually got chainsaws and just started carving it up. And you can see all the stumps and the logs that they left behind. And so that's just an example of what we're seeing more of. We're seeing an increase in lightning because with every one degree temperature increase, you get about 12% more lightning.

MG: So what are you supposed to do about that?

ED STRUZIK: We can change that as the indigenous people are doing, say, in British Columbia. They're starting to thin the forest. They're also doing prescribed burning. And it's been a fairly dramatic turn around. I think at the West Lawn Reserve last year, they had a fire tore through that area that would have burned a lot more buildings down. But for the fact that they actually had thinned out the forests, they did some prescribed burns, they were able to get on top of it and virtually no damage whatsoever.

MG: So when we've spoken with fire keepers in the interior of B.C. in the wake of the fires there, they talked about this idea of living with fire. And this is something that you've written about as well.

ED STRUZIK: Yeah.

MG: What does that mean?

ED STRUZIK: Well, living with fire is essentially it's not going to go away. It's going to become more frequent. In some cases, more intense. But I think we have to alter our lifestyles for one, get used to the fact that there's going to be smoke in the air. So people who can afford it, buying air purifiers like I have in our house. The other thing that we can do is that we got to start managing our force better, which we're not doing. I mean, we're still basically in an early 20th century management mode, is let nature take care of itself, we'll put out the fire. And the pressure is increasing on firefighters to deal with the problem. And as you can see here in Alberta, it's out of control. So we've got to come up with other strategies. We've got to have better protective services, which we're slowly doing, but not quickly enough. The University of Alberta here, you know, due to government cuts, have had to cut their budget by 20%. The Canadian Forest Service used to have over 2000. Now it's about 800 people working for it here in Edmonton and other parts of the country. So we're not investing in the science that is needed and we're just not managing, you know, to some extent, what you're seeing here, the forest the way indigenous people managed it. We know we've grown up thinking that fire is evil, that it's a destructive force rather than understanding that it actually regenerates.

MG: What do you do about the smoke part of it? Can I go back to that? Because here, but certainly, we were in Calgary where the smoke hadn't been there and suddenly it appeared and people, you know, were told to stay inside, windows closed, came in through the hallways, people with masks on again like, you know, the height of COVID. And if these fires are going to be more prevalent, what do we do? How do we deal with the smoke that's going to be more of a pressing concern for people who, as you said, can't perhaps afford the HEPA filter inside their house?

ED STRUZIK: I think we're going to have to equip community centres and libraries with the filtering that's required to be able to provide refuge for some people.

MG: So it's like you have, you know, cold centres on very cold days where people can go and find some warmth or on very hot days where people can go and find some cooling. We're going to need to do that to provide some refuge from the smoke.

ED STRUZIK: Right. And they don't necessarily have to be barren, you know, cold, dank places. They can be libraries. They can be schools in the summertime, you know, that are not occupied, that have their own libraries there. It wouldn't cost an awful lot to, you know, retrofit some of these buildings with air conditioners so that, you know, an 80-year-old woman with respiratory problems, you know, can, you know, walk down the street or have somebody take her there for the day. It also would be a community event to some extent.

MG: And in some ways, like a harm reduction approach.

ED STRUZIK: It is, except, you know, but the difference with what we’re doing now is Environment Canada, you know, tells you, close your windows, stay indoors, do not exercise, which is sometimes pretty hard to do if it's 34 degrees and you've got a lot of smoke and you don't have air conditioning or an air purifier. You know, the heat is going to be maybe worse than the smoke. So people have to make choices.

MG: Do you think what we're seeing now is kind of a wakeup call? Will this sort of spur communities and governments to think differently about the effects of these sorts of fires?

ED STRUZIK: I think we're beginning to see it. The story I like best is in Willow, Alaska, is there's more dogs than there are people and there are sled dogs. And after the 2014 fires, which was a record fire year 2015 in Alaska, the community of Willow, all the mushers got together and said, you know, if a fire comes, we're in trouble because it is boreal forest. It's very much like this. So they essentially grouped together and decided they were going to have these muster points. They're going to set up these radio connections between them, find out who's vulnerable, bring in their trailers, move the dogs, move whatever livestock that they had and move to an open area that they would clear and be able to handle the situation on their own. Now, I'm not saying that, you know, we should leave it up to people in rural areas to do that, but I think we should have kind of a system in place. You know, it could be a national wildfire strategy which encourages this with financially and with, you know, some infrastructure where people can actually mobilize.

MG: And take care of themselves.

ED STRUZIK: Take care of themselves or to leave it up to a group of people to take care of their interests. You know, people like to get involved. You know, if I've got a trailer, I can move a few of those animals. We know a spot where there's going to be feed. There's so many different possibilities that we can explore and try. And there's some mechanisms in place that we just aren't experimenting with.

MG: Ed, thank you very much.

ED STRUZIK: Yeah, you're welcome.

MG: This is a beautiful spot.

MG: Ed Struzik is the author of several books, including “Firestorm” and “Dark Days At Noon”. We were speaking on a forest trail near his home in Edmonton. A beautiful spot, indeed. Your CBC News is next. And then, coming up in six minutes, my conversation with two firefighters who are bracing for the season ahead after what has been already a ferocious May. And then, we're off to Red Deer where health care is the issue in the provincial election. Yes, an election is underway in the midst of all of this. We'll talk about it coming up. I'm Matt Galloway. This is The Current from Alberta. Stay with us.

[Music: Theme]

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FIREFIGHTERS

Guests: Aaron Bowers, Lorne Miller

MG: I'm Matt Galloway. You're listening to a special edition of The Current from Alberta.

[Music: Theme]

MG: Still to come, in this pivotal election, health care is very much on people's minds, especially in places like Red Deer in central Alberta. The hospital there serves nearly half a million Albertans and it is overwhelmed. The community is looking to political leaders for solutions. We'll hear about that coming up. But first, firefighters are bracing to face more wildfires even as thousands of people have already been forced to flee.

[Music: Theme]

SOUNDCLIP

FIRST FEMALE SPEAKER: You could see in the distance, you know, the glow of, you know, orange in the fire. And so you knew it was there. It's just a whirlwind of emotions right now. You don't know when you're going home. Like, you know, do we have a home to go back to?

SECOND FEMALE SPEAKER: Oh my God. So like I'm at my place, right, and at like 4:30 in the morning, somebody comes and they’re knocking at my door and they're like, oh my God, we got to evacuate.

THIRD FEMALE SPEAKER: The alert app on my phone starts going off and told me I had 30 minutes. It was definitely scary. Definitely scary. Very smoky. And the whole time, just being worried that my place was going to burn down.

MG: Those are just a few of the people we met here in Alberta this week, some of the thousands forced from their homes since this province declared a state of emergency on the 6th of May. The weather is hot and it's dry. Over much of the province, there's a haze in the sky and in some places, choking smoke. There are more than 90 fires burning right now. And wherever these fires rage and where residents must leave, firefighters press forward toward the flames. Aaron Bowers is a firefighter and primary care paramedic for Syncrude emergency services. He fought the 2016 Fort McMurray fire. Lorne Miller is a former firefighter and is now the resilience officer for the Calgary Fire Department. Morning to you both.

LORNE MILLER: Good morning.

AARON BOWERS: Good morning.

MG: Aaron, this spring is already one of the worst in recent years. Tell me what you've been doing over the last few weeks.

AARON BOWERS: We've have helped out with a couple of wildfires around Fort McMurray area. We were just saying that the weather we're having this May, the last time we had this hotter weather was in 2016 when the wildfire happened. It hasn’t been this hot this early in a while.

MG: Is that the kind of thing that kind of gives shivers about what might be coming?

AARON BOWERS: Well, you know, you're always on edge, right? And just seeing places throughout Alberta burning that you've never really seen before, like inner city Edmonton and surrounding communities. I've never seen Alberta in this kind of state in my life. It definitely keeps you on edge. You can see the potential of what could happen anywhere at any time and how dangerous it can actually get.

MG: Lorne, from your perspective, when you see these fires burning right now, and we've talked to people who've been forced out of their homes, people who've gone back to help fight these fires, they've lost everything and they're still there in the midst of this, what goes through your mind?

LORNE MILLER: It's on our mind for sure. It's noticeable and we have to be prepared to act. You know, nobody is immune to the challenges of life, right? These fires are just another reminder that we have to be ready to deal with things, whether that's, you know, natural disasters, disease, any type of adversity that is inevitably going to come. But yeah, I'm confident that all the groups involved will rally together. You know, citizens, communities, firefighters and all the other first responders to do their best to deal with these circumstances.

MG: Aaron, when you think of what you were up against in 2016 in fighting the Horse River wildfire which tore through Fort Mac, how vivid is your memory of what happened seven years ago?

AARON BOWERS: It's very vivid. I mean, we still talk about it as a group today of what we saw and where each of us were and where we ended up. The things that I saw are something I never thought I would have to prepare for in my mind as a firefighter. I mean, training, you always know, expect the unexpected. You never know what you're going to see. And what I saw was nothing I could prepare myself for. When you get into a subdivision or an area and you're surrounded by fire and you don’t know where to start, you just have to find what's not burned and start there.

MG: That’s the kind of thing that you would still feel, right? I mean, when you put yourself back in that place, what is it that you still feel from those moments?

AARON BOWERS: At the time, when I go back to it, I mean, I didn't really have time to feel anything until I could snap out of it. And, you know, it hit me finally when I could reunite with my kids and my family. But it's safe to say you felt every emotion all at once. Sadness, of course, watching people's homes burn to the ground and knowing what they're losing. And I mean, there's things that families are never going to get back.

MG: There's a book that's about to come out that kind of walks through that fire and documents moment by moment sort of what was happening. What you're reminded of is just how quickly things went from being seemingly manageable to entirely out of control. When it was at its worst and you were there, what was that like?

AARON BOWERS: I mean, it was the middle of the day, but it felt like night. I mean, that fire created its own ecosystem. So I literally saw a flame jump in the air from one house over my head and just ignite another house. It was the weirdest thing to look at and like nothing I can say, nothing's ever going to compare to that fire. We saved a lot. And when I had time to just kind of snap back into reality and just stand there and look around, it's what I would expect… I've never been to war, but it looked like what I would think a war zone would look like. There was nothing left but foundations of homes and fires everywhere. And yeah, it's hard to explain the feeling you had, but I saw some crazy things that showed what a fire is capable of. I mean, I've been firefighting for 15 years now and I always say never disrespect fire. No matter how big or small it is, never disrespect it because it will come back and bite you. I mean, we spent 30 hours in one of the areas outside of Fort Mac in Anzac trying to save the water treatment plant, and eventually we held that fire off after 30 hours. And the wind change came back and we had to pretty much run. So I mean, at that point, that was a breaking point because I mean, for 30 hours straight, no sleep, seeing what you worked so hard to save and then the fire coming back in a matter of seconds because of a wind change, that was I think my breaking point there. But luckily, it didn't take the water treatment plant. But I mean, it's crazy to see what fire can do. So I always go back to that story.

MG: But going through something like that kind of shapes who you are. It leaves a mark. How do you deal with and brace yourself in some ways for what you might be facing this spring and this summer?

AARON BOWERS: It's in the back of your mind. You never know what's going to happen, but you're always prepared for it and you take each call as it comes. And that's what we're trained for. And if anything positive came out of this wildfire, it gave all these firefighters, including myself, so much more experience and lessons. We could take that and move forward and maybe use it for other calls.

MG: Lorne, this is kind of the work that you do, right, as a resilience officer and kind of keeping teams together and preparing them in some ways for the stress of what they're going to be doing. What sort of conversations are you having with your crews about the stress that they might be dealing with as the season ramps up?

LORNE MILLER: It's interesting, right, because now we're on this side and things are ramping up. And so now we can do a little bit of preparation work. And it's important to be able to front load our members with the tools and resources and skills and mindset to be able to deal with things when the calls come in because as Aaron said, we're never really sure when that call is going to come or what it's going to be. But if we have everybody on board with the same tools and resources, then it allows them to be more resilient when they do go out and inevitably respond to these challenging situations. And then on the other side of that equation, we also have stuff available for our members after the fire is out per se, you know, to make sure that they're taken care of on that side of things as well and recover faster if they've had any mental or physical injuries.

MG: What are the tools that you would make sure that crews have at their disposal before they get into a situation like this?

LORNE MILLER: So before they go out, we just try to make sure our members are as mentally and physically resilient as possible. So we have a peer fitness team that we draw on to make sure that crews are in as best shape as they can. We have critical incident stress management groups that go out and make sure, you know, members are okay afterwards, after the call. And then we also have a peer support team that, you know, deal with our members on a day to day basis as they face challenges on the job, off the job, before the call or after the call. We've got people there to answer those calls and help you navigate whatever challenges that you're dealing with.

MG: Has that conversation changed in recent years, do you think?

LORNE MILLER: 100%. I've been on, you know, in the industry for just over 15 years now. And, you know, we've sure made a lot of progress in the right direction in terms of mental. Health, resiliency and taking care of yourself really before incidents happen rather than trying to deal with it and mop it up afterwards.

MG: What was it like before? I mean, because by the nature of the job, firefighters are there to save people's lives. You go into an extraordinarily dangerous situation. When other people are running away, you're going in. What was the conversation like before about resiliency?

LORNE MILLER: It was more so, you know, kind of the old school mentality of tough it out, suck it up, you know, this is what you signed up to do. If you can't cut it, beat it kind of thing. And now, so we're much more aware of the risks associated with the mental and physical exposures of our job. And so it's on us to take care of our people. You know, prior when we first started, you know, we'd go to a difficult call and deal with something very, very challenging and we'd kind of, you know, have that awkward look around and say, everyone good? And it was kind of more a I'm telling you, I'm not asking you. And, you know, then you kind of wash your hands and get back to work. Whereas, now, we're kind of more on the proactive side of things where if something happens we all know that it's a difficult call, then we proactively support our members.

MG: Aaron, how have you seen those conversations change over the course of your career?

AARON BOWERS: It's just recent that we're able to talk about how we feel after a call instead of being told to suck it up and move on. I actually am a CISM member, which is that critical incident stress management you're talking about. So we need to talk. We need to talk after every call. This old school mentality of sucking it up, be a man, that's gone. And in the end, we're all humans and firefighting is a brotherhood. So just being able to debrief and just talk about it, that helps a lot. And just being able to just get it off our chest, we all have each other's backs.

MG: It's mental health, but it's also physical health. And as you said, Lorne, there's been a real broadening of the conversations around the physical risks to these jobs. And this is something that you know firsthand. You are a two-time cancer survivor?

LORNE MILLER: Correct. Yep.

MG: And it's been a couple of years since your first diagnosis. How are you doing now?

LORNE MILLER: I am definitely 10 out of 10. You know, it's nothing short of a miracle that I'm still here today. I realized this morning when I looked at the calendar that it was actually two years ago today I was diagnosed the first time. So I'm thrilled to be here. You know, we've fought some hard battles collectively as a family and a community that's rallied around us to keep me here. But I'm healthy. I feel good. I have a job that I'm passionate about. I have, you know, a wonderful wife and kids. And, you know, what more can you ask for, right? And I'm on my two feet and eating solid food. So life's pretty good these days.

MG: It sounds pretty good, indeed. You went back. After you went into remission, you went back to firefighting, right?

LORNE MILLER: That's correct. Yeah.

MG: Why did you do that?

LORNE MILLER: I mean, you know, it's such an incredible job. And in my opinion, it's one of the best jobs in the world. And I was so passionate about, you know, serving the community that I grew up in. And, you know, the first time when I was diagnosed, you're off work immediately. And, you know, you're kind of face to face with your own mortality and sitting there and wondering if you're going to be able to bounce back from it. And for me, it was really part of my own individual healing process to sort of climb out of that hole that I had found myself in and be able to come back to the job that I love, realize that I still have it, I can still do it. And then, you know, later in the year, before I relapsed, I applied for the job that I have now. So I was able to kind of leave on my own terms and close out that chapter of my life for the time being and move on to something else. So I really used getting back to work as a goal to work towards and to say, you know, I'm still here. We did it. And this is what, you know, teamwork looks like when we all pull in the same direction.

MG: Do you wonder at all, I mean, there have been studies and discussions around links between cancer and the work of firefighters. Do you wonder at all about a possible connection between your cancer and your work?

LORNE MILLER: I'm very confident in a connection between this line of work and the diagnosis that I received. I'm very confident in that connection, you know, and that's another thing that's certainly changed over the last 15 years that, you know, Aaron and I have been doing this job is, you know, historically, when you think of the risks firefighters face, you know, it's, you know, chemical incidents, you know, large scale fires, house fires, all those types of things. And granted, those are very, very dangerous things and very real challenges we face. But, you know, nowadays, we're also learning that the fires can kill us well after they've been put out, right? And yeah, through disease and, you know, mental health issues and stuff like that. So I think now is a great time to sort of keep that conversation going and keep moving that needle in the right direction. But yeah, I absolutely see the connection between my disease and the occupation.

MG: And you are, I don’t know if reassured is the right word, but you're pleased to see that governments and agencies are acknowledging that and moving in a direction to ensure that firefighters receive compensation and the treatment that they deserve?

LORNE MILLER: That’s correct. You know, it's incredibly powerful to see, you know, that acknowledgement and the changes that have recently come because, you know, I can tell you firsthand that although we live in a wonderful country that has, you know, good health care and all that sorts of things, cancer is a very, very expensive experience. And, you know, especially in my instance, I had to step outside of sort of the traditional health care realm. And, you know, it impacts all facets of life, right? You know, my wife is an entrepreneur, so that impacted her because she did stop working and take care of me, you know, And I went on long term disability to get better. And, you know, so now that this legislation is changing and things are heading in the right direction and the acknowledgement of the connection between the disease and the occupation is being heard, you know, for people who have this disease after me and who inevitably will deal with it, it just takes that incredible weight off their shoulders because, you know, for me, that's a weight I still carry around today. There is a connection between the disease and my occupation. But for me, it hasn't been acknowledged yet. And so it's a big deal. You know, if someone dies from an occupational, presumed occupational illness such as cancer, it's the same as, it's recognized the same as dying in, you know, a fire or on a call or whatever. So that's a big, big deal for myself and my family in terms of being taken care of. So to know that that's changing, that certainly creates a little bit of comfort for me.

MG: This is a strange question, but do you regret at all going into that line of work?

LORNE MILLER: You know, that's a great question, Matt, and I've thought about it a lot. And to say that I regret it, absolutely not. You know, when I joined the department in 2007, I made the best decision based on the information that I had at the time. And, you know, this career to date and in the future has provided me with such incredible lessons and knowledge and met some fantastic people. And, you know, as first responders, we sign up to help and to give back. And this is the most intense way to sort of do that as a first responder. So I'm so proud of, you know, the contributions that we've been able to make to the city of Calgary while I've worked here and to help people out on their worst day. And that gives me a lot of pride and a lot of satisfaction. And so I definitely don't regret it because I mean, the person that I am sitting here today, you know, as a 10 out of 10 in your studio, I wouldn't be that person without the hardships and suffering and the lessons that I've learned from both, you know, the illness that I experienced and, you know, the camaraderie and family life that I got in the fire department as a first responder.

MG: Aaron, what do those changes mean to you? I ask you in part because the Alberta government introduced these changes for workers comp. And part of this is about adding types of cancers to an eligible list, but also saying that any firefighter who fought the Fort McMurray fire and develops any of the listed cancers, the presumption is that the cancer’s related to their work regardless of length of service, etc. So what do those changes mean to you?

AARON BOWERS: Oh, it's great to hear that. It takes a lot less worry away of what could be. I mean, we don't know. We won't know for a while if any of the wildfire will cause cancer. I'm sure it will. I mean, if you look at the FDNY and those guys from 911, those guys are still dying from illnesses that they're getting now like 22 years later. But it's good to know that we have that option, that we might be taking care of if it did come down to us getting cancer in the future. I can’t speak for everybody, but I mean, we didn't wear masks during the wildfire. And even if we had them, we probably wouldn't wear them. It was an oven and those masks would just hinder us even more. In the end, we’re all going to pass away, but we can do it knowing that we did good in the world than, I mean, I'm fine with it, but I think it's great that we have that backing now.

MG: You're fine with it. I mean, is there a part of it that’s stuck in the back of your mind at all when you're doing that work or you're able to put that out of your mind?

AARON BOWERS: I don't think about it at all. I mean, if it happens, it happens. I mean, that's just one thing that you're worrying about something that might not even happen. You know, you can't control the future. You can't control the past. You just control today and you just keep trucking forward and do your job and whatever happens, happens.

MG: What do you love about this job?

AARON BOWERS: I love being able to go to work and not knowing what's going to happen. There is no routine. So I love helping people, being able to change lives. It's not always sickness. It's just talking to people. There's a lot of mental health that people are struggling in the world today. And just talking to people, those are some of the calls that you feel the best after just by being able to talk to someone, maybe change the way they're thinking and bring them out of a slump. But this is a dream I've had since I was a kid. And being able to do it every day, I don't think of it as work. Like Lorne said, you get to go hang out with your buddies and live your dream. So.

MG: And this is in your family, right? There's roots in this profession for you.

AARON BOWERS: My God mom was the first woman firefighter in Fort McMurray. And I always grew up watching her. And she always brought the trucks around. I mean, it was very cool to see.

MG: Lorne, folks like Aaron, just before I let you both go, folks like Aaron are going to have a really busy spring and summer. And in the work that you do in resilience, I just wonder what advice you would have for people who are going to be on the front lines as this season takes hold and as these fires flare up again.

LORNE MILLER: Yeah. It's, you know, take care of yourself, take care of each other and take care of your families, right? And I know they're all out there taking care of their communities, but, you know, making sure that, you know, they're making sound, conscious and healthy decisions to go out there and watch each other's back. If you see somebody that looks like they may be struggling, you know, mentally or physically, reach out for help and the resources because, you know, as we talked at the beginning of our conversation, there's so many more resources available now, and to not be afraid to put your hand up to ask for help because the help is there and it's available and it makes a big difference. So for those folks that are, you know, bravely putting on their work boots today and every day as first responders not only in fire season, but, you know, every day when they go to work, realize it's okay to put up your hand and ask for help and, you know, take the steps to take care of yourself and take responsibility for your own health mentally and physically and use the resources that are available and stay safe and keep each other safe.

MG: Lorne, I'm really glad to talk to you about the work that you're doing, but also just really glad to hear that you're feeling good. So thanks for joining us.

LORNE MILLER: Yeah, thanks so much for the opportunity, Matt. I really appreciate it.

MG: And Aaron, same to you. And really take care of yourself and the best of luck. It's going to be a busy spring and summer for you.

AARON BOWERS: Thank you very much, Matt. And Lorne, congrats on feeling great beating cancer twice. That's great to hear.

LORNE MILLER: I appreciate it. Yeah, the definition of teamwork is what it's all about to keep me here today.

MG: Gentlemen, thanks again and take good care.

LORNE MILLER: Thanks very much.

AARON BOWERS: Thank you.

MG: Lorne Miller is the resilience officer for the Calgary Fire Department. He was in our Calgary studio. Aaron Bowers is a firefighter and primary care paramedic for Syncrude emergency services. He was in Fort McMurray. We just heard Aaron and Lorne talk about how much they love what they do. Well, here is the type of moment that would make that work worthwhile. On Tuesday, the evacuation order for Drayton Valley was lifted. Sharon Sinclair was one of the first residents to go back home.

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SHARON SINCLAIR: So yeah, we were gone for 12 days. We started off in Stoney, then Edmonton, then Nisku and then finally home. You have no idea how great it is to be back and see how hard that these people worked to save this town. They did awesome. I mean, it's so great it came. I'm sorry it came so close. And I'm just so proud of this community and the people that helped save it. I really am. And I pray for the ones that are still going through it. Watching the people pull into town in where I live, everybody was waving and smiling and everybody was like, we all got to go to the biggest party on earth. We're home. It was awesome. It really is. I can't tell you how excited everybody is to be home.

MG: You can kind of hear it in her voice. You can certainly hear it in her voice. Quite a moment, indeed. Coming up after your regional update, Albertans vote in a very tight provincial election on the 29th of May. Health care is top of mind, especially in the central Alberta city of Red Deer where the hospital is overwhelmed and the community says it deserves better. This is a very personal story for so many people there. Red Deer is our next stop coming up in 90 seconds. I'm Matt Galloway. You're listening to a special edition of The Current from Alberta. Back in just a minute. Stick around.

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RED DEER HOSPITAL

Guests: Ken Johnston, Dr. Kym Jim

MG: Hello again. I'm Matt Galloway. You're listening to a special edition of The Current from Alberta.

SOUNDCLIP

[audience applauding]

KEN JOHNSTON: Thank you everyone for coming out today to show the community of Central Alberta support for the Red Deer Regional Hospital Redevelopment Project.

MG: About 50 people gathered in a park in downtown Red Deer to rally for their hospital. The Red Deer Regional Hospital serves nearly half a million people in central Alberta, and for years, it's been plagued by bed shortages and staffing troubles.

SOUNDCLIP

KEN JOHNSTON: Despite their anxiety, despite their frustration and their lack of day to day resources that they've been looking for, they still get in the breach for us. They still provide that care for us and I'm grateful for that as the mayor of Red Deer.

[audience applauding]

MG: The provincial government has committed $1.8 billion to expand the hospital, but that work will take years to complete. Doctors, nurses and residents of Red Deer say they can't wait that long. For them, this is the top election issue.

SOUNDCLIP

PAM: I've been coming to these rallies since they started in 2017 and we're not getting there. Who is going to listen? I don't know if they care. My name is Pam and I've resided in Red Deer since 2005. To me, health care is the number one issue. I just got a letter from my family doctor telling me she was leaving town and nobody here at the clinic wants you, so, well, anyway, goodbye. Have a nice time. It's important. We all are going to need the hospital at some point. And right now, it's kind of frightening knowing what's happening. I recently spent 12 days in there myself. Now, I will say once I was into the ER, my care was fabulous. And I feel so bad for the doctors and the nurses. Like they are still working so professionally and whatever, but you can just see the exhaustion in them.

MILTON WILLIAMS: Hello, my name is Milton Williams. In November, December 2021, my doctor sent a note in saying I needed a new knee and I was put on a two-year waiting list. I thought, I can handle it. I can handle the pain for two years if I have to. So I couldn't take it. The pain was so much. When that left knee went bad, not that I go physically. I went down mentally. This was just too much. There is mental anguish there all the time because you're in pain and you can't see a future. The pain you can handle is pain that you have when you have to walk and I did. But you want to see a future for yourself. And I'm looking two years down the road, I'm getting older. What's left after that? So I flew to Montreal to have my own knee done and pay for it myself rather than wait another two years for Alberta. So I think the political parties have to, I don't care what side you're on, back this. They could do it together. It'd be something different in politics, wouldn't it, for the parties to work together to say yes, we both agree it's got to be done.

MG: Ken Johnston has long been part of the push for upgrades to Red Deer’s Hospital. He's the mayor of Red Deer. Mayor, good morning.

KEN JOHNSTON: Good morning.

MG: This is an issue that is part of your purview as mayor, but it's personal as well. How did the fight for better health care in your community come to mean so much to you?

KEN JOHNSTON: Well, you know, providential in some senses, Mat, for sure. Back in 2016 when I was a city councillor, I was grabbed by a headline in the local paper, The Red Deer Advocate, indicating the mortality rates from cardiac episodes. The risk of death, if you will, was 50% higher in central Alberta because of our lack of medical therapy called cardiac catheterization. So I went to the mayor at the time and said, we need to do everything we can to start an improvement in the hospital. At the time, I'll be frank, Matt, I was more thinking, hey, this could be me, you know, 62, 63 years old, a little heavy around the middle. Ironically, quite sadly, obviously, it was my wife that took the heart attack in November of 2016. So just a month after that newspaper article, she had, you know, pretty severe complications and ended up dying in the ICU, in the intensive care unit in Red Deer in March of 2017.

MG: I'm sorry for your loss.

KEN JOHNSTON: Thank you, Matt. You know, obviously, it's a life event that none of us, you know, wants to go through. But it did bring me into a very, very intimate and close relationship with the hospital on a day to day basis. So in many ways, it was certainly an enabling event for me with the great encouragement of my wife. You know, she really encouraged me in those days to sort of keep going, keep pressing forward with this issue and so on. So I have lived experience, you know, certainly, Matt, and I also have the political office now to leverage that at the same time. So I'm in a very unique position, that's for sure.

MG: When she suffered that heart attack, she was sent to Calgary, to Foothills to have treatment.

KEN JOHNSTON: She was sent to Calgary. Yes. You know, there's a bit of a story here for all of your lady listeners this morning around heart attacks and women and typically how they manifest. They’re very insidious, very quiet. And by the time Isabel presented to the hospital, she was 12 hours into a cardiac complication. So the lack of therapy at the hospital was not a material factor at all in her journey. But, you know, Isabel was not untypical, if you will. If somebody has a heart event, cardiac event in central Alberta, we don't have the technology to be able to get in and do what's called a catheterization therapy, which is really an opening of the artery. So we have to put in clot busting drugs and get them either ground ambulance to Edmonton or Calgary or airlifted as in Isabel's case, to Calgary or Edmonton.

MG: How did you feel about your wife having to go to another city to get the care that she needed in that moment?

KEN JOHNSTON: You know, that was an experience that I relived through many other patients in the months following because many spouses, I had an opportunity to talk to many families about, it's traumatic. I mean, there's a sense of separation. There's an actual goodbye. For us, on that fateful Friday in November, they weren't sure she'd survive the helicopter passage to Calgary. So there was the actual first goodbye for us, thinking that she may not make the journey. And you still have to scramble like we did to get down the road to Calgary to see her at the other end.

MG: That would be a really difficult moment to say goodbye.

KEN JOHNSTON: It is. Yeah. It was quite emotional. My kids were there, of course. And then, of course, there was the trip to Calgary and hoping, of course, you know. And it's not a far journey by helicopter, but it's an hour and a half journey by car. And so you're wondering what's happened. Did she make it? And I would say it’s the same, Matt, sadly. You know, we're not untypical of others that have had the same experience.

MG: How stretched is the hospital in Red Deer?

KEN JOHNSTON: The hospital is very stretched in Red Deer. You know, it hasn't had any kind of major upgrade in terms of beds, in terms of operating rooms in a long time. I would even venture to say the 70s. It was never designed to cover the service area that it covers right now. So around half a million people. Our hospital has become the fourth busiest hospital in the entire province. We are the busiest, the busiest referral hospital. We're taking in patients from more centres than is typically the case. So it was never designed to have the capacity that it has. And that is the crux of many of the challenges that we currently face.

MG: And you hear about those challenges, stories of people who are waiting with, you know, a ruptured appendix for hours and hours and hours to see a doctor, and then they're waiting in the ER and then they can't get surgery because of that. The provincial government, as I mentioned, has promised a hospital expansion for Red Deer by 2030, 2031.

KEN JOHNSTON: Yes.

MG: Is that fast enough?

KEN JOHNSTON: You know, the reality is it can't be much quicker. And that's the sad reality. These things take time. They're specialized build. You know, we're going to do this construction in a functioning hospital setting. We're going to add two towers here and all those good things. It's a great plan. But to your question, you know, is it fast enough? You know, it just couldn't be anything but instant to solve some of the capacity issues that we have. But the reality is, you know, we're in this for I would say at least six years, maybe seven.

MG: I would just imagine, I mean, as the mayor, you would be on the receiving end of a lot of frustration from people in the community who want this to happen sooner rather than later. You laugh as I say that because you know what I'm talking about.

KEN JOHNSTON: Yeah, I certainly do. And I can actually link in with that frustration. I can identify. And people, most Red Deerians know my story, so they know they have a receptive audience here when they say, you know, there's delays and my husband, my wife, my son, my daughter, etc., are going through unnecessary aggravation. So, you know, you have that sort of extra, if you will, hard earned credibility at the table when it comes to an issue like this.

MG: What do you make of the promises by those who would like to lead your province when it comes to health care? Rachel Notley's NDP says that they want to speed up the expansion project. Danielle Smith of the UCP says they're looking at ways to take the pressure off the hospitals. What do you make of those promises?

KEN JOHNSTON: Well, there's a couple of things I think, you know, that I've had to come to terms with. One is, you know, we've needed this hospital, you know, it could be argued since, gosh, 2013, 2014, even 15. So we're already eight years overdue here, frankly. We've had change of governments and all those things. Central Albertans, Red Deerians in particular, you know, I'll use the expression long suffering. We don't, and no pun intended, when it comes to the medical system, it’s not a term we use often. It means patient and tolerant to the point of suffering through it, if you will. We're not asking for anything that's a nice to have here. We're not asking for hockey rinks. We're not asking for improvements to our downtown. We're asking, rightly asking for an infrastructure build that's going to save the lives and preserve the quality of life for all central Albertans. So, you know, it's great that all the parties are at the table here, and I mean political parties, but I'll compare it. You know, Central Alberta, you know, has been promised the pie of the hospital. I'll just compare it to a bit of a pie. Right now, we have an upper crust and a lower crust and no filling in between what we do between now and seven years from now to mitigate the reality of what we're facing at the hospital.

MG: Promises of hockey rinks in Calgary get votes, though, and Calgary people say is where the election will be won or lost. So 90 minutes away in Red Deer, what goes through your mind when you see those promises being made?

KEN JOHNSTON: Well, you know, I'll say this. This project needs to be at the top of your capital plan going forward. No matter what party wins this thing, you know, it's just the basics here in central Alberta is that where do we go when life happens to us? And that's irrespective of whatever party is in Edmonton.

MG: Just finally, I suppose, is your sense that people in Red Deer, that they will see health care as if not the, then certainly a major driver in this election, this is the thing that they're going to be looking for promises on and meaningful promises, not things that are way down the road or things that might be aspirational?

KEN JOHNSTON: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I think of, you know, a provincial issue in our city, the hospital would be so far number one, that number two would be, you know, at the back of the bus, if you will, kind of thing. This is a major issue in the city. And our doctors, to their credit, and the staff at our hospitals, they have been heroic. I mean, when you think of this particular facility being hit by COVID at the same time, it has just been heroic the sacrifice of all of our frontline workers, nurses, physiotherapists, all those good things. What Central Alberta is looking for now is a very definitive plan now on how you are going to get through the next five or six years. I think if somebody were to be able to outline that kind of plan, that would be to me just as genuine, if not more, frankly, than the promise of a new hospital.

MG: From your lips to the ears of the politicians who will have their hands on the levers of power or would like to get their hands on the levers of power. I'm really glad to talk to you about this. Mayor Johnston, thank you very much.

KEN JOHNSTON: Matt, have a great day. And to you and all our listeners, thank you.

MG: Ken Johnston is mayor of Red Deer. Dr. Kym Jim is an internal medicine specialist and the founder of the advocacy group The Society of Hospital Expansion in Central Alberta. Dr. Jim, good morning to you.

DR. KYM JIM: Good morning, Matt.

MG: You've said the well-being of central Albertans is at stake. How would you describe the state of things at the Red Deer Hospital right now?

DR. KYM JIM: Well, the Red Deer Regional Hospital has always been a hospital that's punched above its weight. So from the standpoint of the staff and physicians, we have an excellent group of people at the hospital, but we don't have the resources to deliver the type of care that we should for citizens of central Alberta and certainly not the volume of care. So the hospital is functioning and people will get good care. We just can't do all of what we need to do. And in many services, the wait times are simply too long. I would say that the level of anxiety amongst, you know, physicians in particular is very high because we just aren't able to do what we need to do. And we have seen the types of services that we would like to do diminish over the past few years.

MG: Let me ask you about some of those specific services. If you take a look at things like surgeries, for example, and we heard from the mayor talking about this, how often is it that patients would be sent elsewhere because they can't get the kind of care that they need close to home?

DR. KYM JIM: This is an everyday occurrence at the hospital. I mean, it occurs really in two forms. It occurs where we do not have the service available or can’t handle the volume of the day and patients are shipped to Edmonton and Calgary. And, you know, even without the specialty aspect of the services, there are citizens that are on a nearly daily basis sent out of Red Deer who are citizens of Red Deer to occupy spaces and line hospitals because we can't accommodate them here. The Red Deer Regional Hospital is a referral centre for central Alberta, and as such, about half the people in the hospital in any given day are not residents of Red Deer. So when residents of Red Deer have a lesser problem and we need beds, they're sent to the hospitals outside of Red Deer. They get excellent care there, but it is not nearly in their community.

MG: What about wait times? Again, there are stories that are well circulated of people who are in great distress who have waited for hours and hours on end to see a doctor to make their way through the emergency department. How common are those stories?

DR. KYM JIM: Those are once again, you know, nearly everyday occurrences. There are certainly peak times of the year where it is worse. To be quite honest, we've almost become numb to it. And that's a sad thing to say. You know, we see these wait times, we look at it and it used to be if we saw a wait time of three hours, we looked at that in awe. You know, we see wait times of six hours perking up here and there, you know, weekly and we don't really bat an eye at that anymore. When it gets to nine and 14 and 16 hours, yeah, that gets a little more attention. And that happens some here and there for sure.

MG: What do you hear from patients about that anger and frustration that they would feel if they have the sense that they are not being seen and treated in a way that is commensurate with their need but also their expectations?

DR. KYM JIM: You know, I think the frontline staff in emergency takes the brunt of that on an every single day basis. You know, you walk through the waiting room when that time is in the four and six hour range and you can palpate the anger and the frustration of the community. We see it. You know, universally, people say once they got in, I got great care. But the getting there is very tough on people. And, you know, you see the frontline staff in triage taking the brunt of that in a terrible way.

MG: There's that idea of moral injury and distress. And you talked about the anxiety that members of your team would feel. How do you feel about the type of care that you're able to give to patients go into this profession to help people?

DR. KYM JIM: I mean, I think that that is something that, you know, is just so frustrating when that happens. You know, you have people that will speak from the cardiology end of it. When I did a lot of cardiology, you know, they came in, you know, they would ask you all the time, how come I can't get this done here? Why do I have to leave my family to get this done? Or in times of tremendous distress, as you heard the mayor speak, you know, your family member is loaded in an ambulance or a helicopter to go to Edmonton or Calgary to get their lifesaving cardiac procedure. You know, did they make it? Can they go, right? I mean, it's terrible and it has a moral injury. There's no doubt about that. And, you know, you talk to the surgeons whose waitlists have grown so long that they have stopped taking patients. I mean, it's to the point that they realize that they can't take the patients anymore because they can't do a service to them. And this is something that really, you know, it has evolved in Red Deer over the past 10 years. And it's something that we saw coming and we didn't really think it would get to this point. You know, you hoped it wouldn't get to this point, but it has. And the saddest part about it is that We're years away from a solution for this problem. And that has everyone wondering, you know, what do you do? I mean, it has a lot of effect on who you can recruit and how you can recruit. I'm certain that it has led to the decision for some of the physicians that have been here to go to other jurisdictions. It has been a rough time in Red Deer.

MG: I've read about that. Why is it that physicians would leave Red Deer and go work in Calgary or in Edmonton?

DR. KYM JIM: It's multifold. So a big, big reason is that when they move to other jurisdictions, they're often moving to a call schedule that is better. And so, you know, this is part of the problem. What happened in Red Deer is that we didn't get the critical mass in a few of our programs. We have the patient volume and the referral area to get the critical mass. But in many programs, we did not. And as a result of that, instead of having, you know, four or five people doing the call and having to cover 365, you know, 24 hours a day, you would have had, you know, 10, right? And that's a totally different story for, you know, quality of life. And so you have people leaving for colour reasons and quality of life. And on top of that, we don't have the help on call. So in other jurisdictions, you know, there are physician assistants, clinical assistants, residents that help get the work done. When we are on call in Red Deer, we are it, right? We are that person serving in some cases 350 to 500000 people and taking call on all of those every single day with no one helping us. We are the only ones in the hospital in that field of specialty. It's a big toll And we've been asking for that help for years and it wasn't coming. And finally, in times of crisis, we have seen, you know, money freed up to get these people. But we should have had those people five, 10 years ago.

MG: You've been working at the hospital for a long time and have been involved in calling for change at that hospital for a long time as well. We mentioned with the mayor, I mean, there are plans for the expansion and that's a long game in some ways. What has to happen in the interim given, as you said, this is a daily crisis in many ways.

DR. KYM JIM: That is the real crux of the matter. We need a transition plan to get us through the next few years. We cannot continue to do things the same way as we were doing them. We need to get some things solved here today. We can't make it through the next decade without something being done. And on top of that, when we get through the next decade and have a big shiny new hospital, we need the people here. We need the plans here and the programs here to move into that, not to wait another five years to get that done.

MG: Have you considered leaving?

DR. KYM JIM: No. Myself, not at all, right? I love Red Deer. I am very committed to this city and there are lots of people who are. But it is something that I want. We all want to see this done. And there are many of us that are hunkered in for the long term so that this gets done.

MG: So I'll let you go after I ask you this, which is, I mean, and I don't want to drag you into politics, but there's an election underway right now and there are promises that are being made. What do you want people to think about when it comes to, again, if this is, you know, the well-being of central Albertans being at stake, what do you want people to think about when it comes to those promises and what they're hearing on the campaign trail?

DR. KYM JIM: People need to ask their candidates in this election, how can we get this hospital bill done faster in Red Deer? What is your party's commitment to that? What is your party's commitment to the Red Deer Regional Hospital being the number one prioritized project in Alberta Health Services? And ask them on their party's stance on a transition plan or task force to get what Red Deer and central Alberta needs to be done before the hospital expansion happens, a plan to get us through the next few years.

MG: Have you heard anything yet that would address the urgency of the situation that you see on a daily basis?

DR. KYM JIM: I think that the major political parties in Alberta have committed pretty strongly to the hospital. I've yet to see a public commitment to the Task Force and Transition Plan. I think that would mean a lot to the citizens of Central Alberta and certainly to the physicians and staff of the hospital.

MG: I appreciate you giving us a peek inside the hospital and a look at what you and your colleagues are up against. Thanks for talking to us and good luck.

DR. KYM JIM: Matt, very much appreciate your interest in the story. Thank you.

MG: Dr. Kym Jim is an internal medicine specialist in Red Deer. That is The Current for this Thursday. Q is up next on CBC Radio One. It has been, to put it politely, a very busy week here in Alberta. Wildfires, elections and country music. Tonight in Calgary, several artists are being inducted into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame, including the country music star Terry Clark. Here she is with a tribute to her roots growing up in this province. This is Terry Clark and Northern Girl. I'm Matt Galloway in Edmonton. Thanks for listening to The Current from Alberta.

[Song: “Northern Girl” by Terri Clark]

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Thursday May 18, 2023 Episode Transcript

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