Anastasia: Tara Llanes says sports is her identity.

Growing up, she loved basketball. Then BMX. Then professional Mountain biking.

Even when a crash left her paralyzed from the waist down, the competitive fire within kept burning.

She took up Wheelchair Tennis. And then, to boost her performance on the court, Wheelchair Basketball.

Which brought her back to her first love in sport,

and brings us up to speed with one of the grittiest competitors you'll ever meet.

[music]

It's Player's Own Voice.

I'm Anastasia Bucsis.

Buddy. It's great to see you.

Tara Llanes: Yeah, it's good to see you, too.

Anastasia: I'm wearing this Cher shirt because I think the only person aside from Cher to reinvent themselves as much as she has is you.

Tara Llanes: Wow! That's saying something..

Anastasia: Yeah, I know. And I'm a big Cher fan. First love basketball, then what? BMX then mountain biking. And you're back to basketball. That's a pretty significant journey in sport.

Tara Llanes: Oh, God. Yeah. It's kind of it's been one big like cycle of just craziness and not really knowing where things were going to go and obviously. But yeah, I mean, I've been really fortunate to play sports and compete in sports for such a long time. It's kind of my identity. That's where I feel like I belong.

Anastasia: How have you maintained that mental edge, let alone physical? How do you just keep hungry for competition?

Tara Llanes: I don't know. I think it's kind of sometimes in your DNA. I think sometimes you're just... You want to be competitive and you want to win and kind of at all costs, you know? And I think it takes a toll sometimes on friendships and relationships, for sure. Stuff like that. But it's hard because if you…when you want it that bad and you see this goal that you have in front of you, there's just you kind of put those things aside and that's, you know, that's what's really important to me. And I, I feel like I can make it all work. So. But yeah, it's kind of wild how I ended up back in basketball from way, way back in the day.

Anastasia: Well, and you got into basketball because you were trying to increase your speed for tennis, right?

Tara Llanes: Yeah, I got into wheelchair basketball because I was on the tennis court and I couldn't figure out... I was like, why can't I get to the ball in time? And it really came down to anticipation of where that player was going to hit the ball. But that's where I was at. And so I bumped into a couple ex players Richard, Peter, Amanda Yan and they were like, Hey, you're going to this is how you're going to get faster on the tennis court. You should play basketball. So then I just sort of transitioned into it and I would and I didn't realise how much I missed being in team sport because tennis is so like you're travelling on your own training kind of on your own. So I missed that part.

Anastasia: Yes. Do you bore easily? I mean, you've been you've been so active in so many sports.

Tara Llanes: I feel like I do. I feel like if I even when I get time, I always say I'm like, oh, I just really want like a weekend off or a day off. And then I get that and then I just yeah, you're right back into it. And I don't know, like, it's just it's just, I guess, who I am.

Anastasia: So how do you change your leadership style depending upon which sport you're up? I love how you said I really, really miss team sports. How are you different in a team sport versus individual?

Tara Llanes: It's a that's a really interesting question because I'm really trying to learn right now how to be a leader. I'm one of the you know, I was fortunate enough to be, ah, I am a co-captain with Cindy on our on our team and. Sometimes I just don't feel like I get it right. You know, I think it's really tough being. Kind of. Well, I am the oldest player on the team. I have a bit of experience now, but there's other younger players on the team that have more wheelchair basketball experience than I do. So it's an interesting dynamic, especially when you're really good friends and close friends with a lot of your team-mates you're trying to sort of figure out when do I say what? How do I say what? And you know, you you want to have you want to be sort of have a respect. You want to have respect of your team-mates. And, you know, it's important to me, but you don't want to feel like you're telling them how to do something. So it's I don't know. It's a really interesting dynamic and I'm really trying to figure it out right now.

Anastasia: Yeah, honestly, I've got a lot of empathy for that struggle because I think to myself, like I always thought I was a good team player and now I've been in situations where I'm like, Oh, what am I, a lone wolf? Like, you know, maybe I was really an individual athlete that was just obsessed with myself. It's tough, that balance.

Tara Llanes: Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's I mean, when you're on your own and you're just it's just yourself, you know, how hard you can push yourself. You know the things that you need to say to yourself. You just, you know, But there's so many different dynamics in team sport and there's so many different personalities in team sports. So to be able to sort of meld 12 players and 12 personalities to make those players on court all see the same thing and feel the same thing right at the same moment is like, if you can do that, you're winning basketball games.

Anastasia: So and sometimes it's like not even a decision like that. I'll throw it back to 2014. The women's hockey team, they were really struggling before the Olympics. They had lost like a million games in a row. And the coach goes, You know what we need to do? We all need to have a night out. And everyone just went out and drank way too many light beers. When is it that you take your foot off the gas? When is it that you put it back on? That's tough.

Tara Llanes: You know what? I think it's just it's a feeling. And I think coaches that are really meant to be in those positions and that can really connect with players and that can really see… It's almost like you know exactly when to do it. You know, sometimes when you're so in it, it that's when it's hard to see.

Anastasia: Yeah.

Tara Llanes: So yeah, there's those really amazing coaches that know when that timing is to just let off the gas and be like, All right, let's just forget about basketball or hockey or whatever it is, and let's just go do us right now.

Anastasia: Yeah, be humans. It is like an art form. You have such a large engine. Of course, you were in mountain biking. BMX. Did you ever kind of flirt with the idea of going into adaptive cycling?

Tara Llanes: I did. I did go into adaptive. It's. It's not really…

Anastasia: Sorry. I didn't know that. Now I sound silly.

Tara Llanes: No, not at all. It's interesting because growing up in the States, so when I first got hurt, almost everyone I knew wanted me to just get into sport because I felt I think they were like, That's what's going to get you back into like, who you are. So I was just out of rehab and everyone was like, Let's get you into adaptive cycling. So I did hand cycling for a bit and was on the national team, went to train down at the US Olympic Training Centre, won Nationals and so but I hated it.

Anastasia: why did you hate it?.

Tara Llanes: I didn't love adaptive cycling at all. It just a I was just out of rehab and it wasn't mountain biking, it was road cycling.

Anastasia: Which are very different.

Tara Llanes: So not only was it road cycling, but now I'm like practically laying down and I can't really see what I'm doing because I have this gear in front of me and I'm using my arms. So like, all of it was just, I don't know, the antithesis of what I wanted to be doing. I wanted to be on my mountain bike and jumping jumps and like that sort of scene.

So it was just different. And I wasn't mentally at that point in my life, ready to…. I don't know. There was just a lot happening for me. I had just gotten injured and I just didn't. I wasn't into it, but I did it. I did it. I think I think I did it more for other people because they really wanted me to like, be myself. And so I was like, okay, well, maybe I should be doing these things.

So I did do that. But it's yeah, it's kind of this blip in my life that I don't really think much of. So I feel like it wasn't until I moved to Canada that, you know, years had gone by and I hadn't played sport or hadn't competed in anything for like five years. And then I got into tennis just sort of accidentally.

Anastasia: What was the catalyst to kind of turn that page where you go… I mean, you've mentioned Canada, but when did you realise you were playing sports for yourself and not just other folks?

Tara Llanes: It was tennis. It was when I started to play tennis, which I'd never played before. And it's honestly one of the hardest sports that I've ever played. Ever. And I felt like it was just I was finally at a place that I could accept and I was accepting, being in a chair, like my life in a chair. Because before that I was not into it and I was having a really tough time accepting this new life and you know, how long it would take me to do things. And I, I think that was probably one of the things that got me the most frustrated was how long everything took when before I could just like hop out of bed and I was in the car in 10 minutes, where now was taking me like an hour, an hour and a half to do these things.

And that was really, really frustrating for me. So then when I found tennis. That's when I felt like, okay, this is my own. This is something for me and this is what, and I'm loving doing it. And then I started to sort of like, have this spark again of like, I want to compete. And then I was just all in.

Anastasia: And then you find yourself in wheelchair basketball.

Tara Llanes: Yeah.

Anastasia: And you're back to your first love.

Tara Llanes: I know it's all cyclical.

Anastasia: You said that wheelchair basketball is the most inclusive of all wheelchair sports. What did you mean by that?

Tara Llanes: I mean that based on our classification system. You can have minimally disabled players. So sometimes you'll see at a national competition or international competition sorry, you'll have players that will just get up and walk out of their chairs. And, you know, people will ask me, Well, how is that? I don't understand. It's because based on classification, we start at a class 1.0 and it goes up to 4.5 in point five increments. So like my classification is a 1.5. So like I'm pretty disabled and you can have you get 14 points on the court.

So like let's say you for instance, if you had a really bad hip or a knee injury that deemed you unable to play Stand-Up basketball and you were that that would mean you were classifiable. So the amazing thing with our sport is that you can have players that have a hip or a knee injury that are just these amazing players that make our game so much better. And but you have to always play every, almost every type of classification because you get 14 points on the court. So you can't just play all of your four or five players. Yeah. Like you have to play your 1.0 and your 1.5 and your 3.5s and you have to you have to it's like this. You have to really figure out which players and what classifications work well in court together to get the highest amount of points. It's this amazing dance.

As a coach, you have to know your exact line-ups you have to know if someone's coming out as a sub, what classification is going in for them. So I just meant that every classification plays and every like… the 4.5s need the 1.0s to help them like get in the key and get up the court because we need them to score because they're our main scorers.

Anastasia: What do you think are some of the benefits of allowing minimally disabled folks to play wheelchair basketball?

Tara Llanes: I just our game is that much more exciting. Yeah, right. Like I can't shoot three pointers. I don't have the same function that they do. They can go out, they can shoot threes, they can make, you know, amazing plays. The game is faster and not just 4.5s. I mean, like 3.5s and 3.0 players, but I mean, it just makes our game that much better. I don't know that I'd want to watch a bunch of 1.5s, you know, like, not like it just we're not as fast. We don't have as much function, but together when you have all of those classifications. It makes all like the 4.5s make the 1.0s shine and vice versa. I feel like it just all makes it look that much better.

Anastasia: That's sweet. In Vancouver 2010, There are basketball courts, obviously in the middle of the Oval, and there are…the national team. Do you folks train out of the Richmond Olympic Oval?

Tara Llanes: I do.

Anastasia: Okay. So then I was like a kid watching you. I'm like, This is so amazing, so fast.

Tara Llanes: It's so fast. I think people don't realise how fast it is, and I don't think people realise how physical that it is. You know, like, I mean, you'll see someone hit the deck, pop back up in their chair and they're back in it. And you know, people that have never seen it before are…

Anastasia: it's amazing.

Tara Llanes: Yeah. So it's, you know, I really encourage people to just give it a watch because I think it's going to be it's going to be a lot different than what you think you're going to see.

Anastasia: You mind if I ask you a personal question?

Tara Llanes: Sure.

Anastasia: You're queer. How did that journey look like to accept yourself and especially in relation to playing sports?

Tara Llanes: You know, I, I knew quite young. I was probably seven and I knew I had the biggest crush on my babysitter. I was like, I was like, "I can treat you so well" At seven! At seven. And so I don't know. I, you know, when I came out to my mom when I was 17 and I was really, really lucky because I grew up with a single parent, single mom. And my mom was like, didn't skip a beat. Like my mom was so right there with me. I mean, I knew that there were moments that she, I think, was nervous for me because, I mean, we're talking this is like the 1990s. Mm hmm. So, you know, it's not where it is now. You know, like now being gay is like, boring. Like, it's not. It's not even. It's so boring.

Anastasia: (laughs ) I am so boring! No, I know.

Tara Llanes: It's very yesterday, you know, so, you know. But yeah, I was really lucky because I don't think a lot of people in that, during that time maybe had it as as easy as I did. Like my entire family was like: no biggie. Like, what else? So and for me, I think it was way more about me accepting me. So, like, in the mountain, like industry, I think everybody knew, but I didn't think anybody knew. So it was more, me being okay with Me. And in accepting me, I was really lucky that I was in a space that was really safe and people didn't really care.

Anastasia: So how do you take that… I'm very grateful that was your experience… How do you take that now, being a co-captain and, you know, creating a safe space for your team?

Tara Llanes: I you know, I'm really I'm very much navigating that. I really am. And knowing. You know, when you say that, I think about some really specific instances. So with our team, you know, we have some new players that that we're bringing into the program and… which is great because we need our program to grow. We need more young girls and young women coming into wheelchair basketball and wanting it and really being like, I really want it, like anything.

And so like my era of growing up in sport is so, so different in terms of, I don't know, let's say consequences. You know, like, if you're not doing it right, like, get on the line. Right. Like, you're running lines until we get it. You're running lines, you know, So that sort of...

And to me, I learned a lot of discipline from that. And I was thankful for that. So now, sort of in this space, in this era of, you know, like 17, 18 year olds, where you want them to feel safe and you want them to know, hey, we're here for you and we want to help you grow. And also, how do you teach that with discipline?. And in in this… in 2023.

Anastasia: We're reimagining safe sport. Right. And that's that's yeah, it's it was tough when you've been built or brought up in a certain system and it's we're we're redoing it.

Tara Llanes: We're redoing it And I'm so, I'm having to like, really learn because I know what worked for me. And does that work now? I don't know. And where can you where are those boundaries of we are a high performance program. We're not we're not here just for a participation medal. We're here to get a medal. We're here to get a gold medal at Paris. So what does that look like? So it's yeah, it's such an interesting dynamic with these new players coming in and like what you can expect from them and what you want to expect from them. So I'm really figuring that out. And I and I, while I don't have it figured out just yet, but if I do, I'll let you know.

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Anastasia: You mentioned Paris 2024. There's a little stop in Santiago for Para panams visions for for that in this, this upcoming fall?

Tara Llanes: I mean, Canada has a really good chance of taking it for sure. I mean, we're going to be up against the states, which is, you know, and has been a very good team. We have quite the rivalry with them and so. Yeah. I mean, we can beat that team. It's going to be hard and we can't make any mistakes. And they're a well-oiled machine. I'll give them that. You know, they stick to their guns. They know what works for them, and they can, you know, just try to wear you down with it.

But I think that we all know what we're getting into. And we have Canada has a really we're a very not to sound, you know, but we have a lot of talent on our team and a lot of depth from our 1.0s to our 4.5s. So I feel like we have a really good chance.

Anastasia: That's exciting. And what a backdrop to springboard off into Paris. Do you expect turnover between para panams and the Olympics?

Tara Llanes: I don't think so. I think the team that we've got is the team that we've got and we might even. I think we're actually getting back a couple of players, hopefully for years. We'll see. We'll see. I've heard some rumours, so and that'll be great because we we're going to need that experience moving forward.

Anastasia: I kind of forget that Tokyo was pushed a year, right? And I'm like, Oh my, the Olympics are just around the corner again.

Tara Llanes: Yeah, I know, I know. Well, I didn't really know what I was going to do after Tokyo. Like, for me, I, Tokyo was, was going to be it. And then, you know, it just I that was my first Paralympic experience and I didn't want that to be my only Paralympic experience because I'm going to guess that it's not even close to what the real Paralympic experience should have been.

So, you know, and then I was like, Well, it's only three years. It's not four years, but still, three years is a long time. So, you know, but we're in 2023 now and so we're we're inching up to it, which is great. And I'm just really excited for it. And this team has a lot of promise, so I know what we can do. And I think that's probably one of the big things too, that's that's kept me in it that in the friendships, you know.

Anastasia: Yeah. Can we talk about Tara Llanes Industries for a second? So adaptive rides. I can only imagine the passion and the work that has to go into that.

Tara Llanes: I didn't know what I was doing at all. When I sort of got the rep job, I just sort of cold called them and said, Hey, I really think that this is something that people would want to do. And so I just started selling them and turns out there's a lot of people that want to ride adaptive mountain bikes, which is great, which is amazing, you know?

So for me, it's like I just I love the excitement of, you know, when I talk to someone like a potential customer. And, you know, we get on the phone and they're talking to me about what they want to do or what they used to do with their family, and they want to do it again, now that they're hurt and, you know, from, you know, all types of disabilities. And so for me, that's been the exciting thing is being able to get people back out on the mountain and riding with their families and riding with their buddies and that sort of thing. So it's been and it's allowed me the time to also play basketball, which I wasn't doing when I first started selling or having my business. But it's really allowed me afforded me the time to be able to do both, to be able to have this job and love it and be passionate about it, but then also have my own sporting passion that, you know, I get to compete in. So it's ended up working really well together. And I think it was just dumb luck.

Anastasia: Why dumb luck?

Tara Llanes: Well, because I never thought that I'd be in sales. I it was just not something that I… and I just sort of fell into it and didn't know what I was doing and never knew I could create a business from it. So that's what I mean. And then, and then the fact that I can sort of make my own hours. So that's, that's all I mean by it.

Anastasia: Do you ride much now?

Tara Llanes: Not as much as I would like to ride. It's just basketball takes up quite a bit of time. So I get out there when I can. Plus I'm an absolute fair weather rider. Like if it's cold out, I'm not going. Like it has to be really hot out and in the mountains and yeah, then I'm good to go.

Anastasia: Yeah, I like that answer because I only liked cycling when it was downhill or at stoplights. I'm sorry. I had to be on a bike way too much. But like, cycling is the new golf now, so it's so cool to see you making so much progress in the adaptive space because I think it's almost like a status thing. Like people love going for a bike ride.

Tara Llanes: Yeah, Being in B.C., I feel like B.C. is sort of the mecca of mountain biking. So and I'm sure other people will disagree with me, but that's just what I think. I got into it when I was quite young and to sort of transition into this other space of mountain biking, it's been a really interesting journey, to say the least.

Anastasia: Where do you hope the journey goes?

Tara Llanes: I would obviously like to get through to Paris, do well there and, probably coaching. And really,as the years go by. You know, coaching for me is something that I'm really looking into and I. I don't know. I feel like I have some nuggets of wisdom here and there. And if if I can, you know, help in that in that realm, I think that would be a pretty cool, stressful, but really cool job.

Anastasia: What's the sponsorship landscape like right now for para athletes?

Tara Llanes: It's tough. It's tough. You know, I think there's kind of a few that maybe have, you know, kind of broken through and have made some some good relationships. But it's hard. Our community is quite small. I mean, I think, you know, if we're talking Paralympics and, you know, maybe it looks, you know, a lot bigger, but sometimes it feels quite small.

And so I have to say, having the opportunities that I've been able to have through the CPC, The Canadian Paralympic Committee, have been really vital because I've been able to sort of be introduced to things that I probably wouldn't otherwise. And I think when I was able bodied, I worked tirelessly to make those connections and I was fortunate to have some of those connections and have some sort of outside the industry sponsors.

But then once I got hurt, it was, it's hard like it takes a lot of work to put yourself out there and to try to get like speaking engagements or things like that. And so it's hard to do. But luckily through like CPC, you get introduced to some people and you can create something from it and you know, be your authentic self. That's the best possible scenario.

Anastasia: You're introducing so many folks to sports, so I hope that gives you a billion sponsors in the lead up to Paris.

Tara Llanes: Knock wood!

Anastasia: No, but really and it's amazing to hear that you're kind of flirting with the idea of giving back in the coaching realm, too, because there's I think we've all come to the point where it's like we need more athletes staying in the system. And I think actually if we're looping it way back, the fact that we are dismantling so many things that we kind of accepted for so long as it's a good thing and I think more athletes are going to stay in the system to make the system better as well. And you're one of them.

Tara Llanes: Yeah, I think we do need it I really, really think we need it. And I think there's a lot of athletes currently that would go on to be really great coaches. So, yeah, maybe you'll see some of us players teaming up together.

Anastasia: Boom! Well thank you so much for chatting. It's always such a pleasure to see you. And. Yeah. I can't wait to watch in Para panams. I might just have to take a little trip down there myself. Be fun.

Tara Llanes: You should. Yeah. Thank you. Cheers.

[music]

Tara Lllanes and I met up in CBC sports digital studio.

Players Own Voice podcast is a cbc sports production.

We're available on CBC Listen and everywhere else you get your podcasts

I am @Anastasure….we're #playersownvoice....

Olivia Pasquarelli edits our audio.

Adam Blinov wrote our theme music.

David Giddens is our producer.

Thanks for listening.

I'm off to costa rica for vacation. Byyyye!