Anastasia: It has been 15 years since Chuck Swirsky left Toronto to become the play by play guy for The Chicago Bulls. So why do Raptors fans still have a fondness for "mister salami and cheese"?

Maybe it's because Chuck was there from day one. He started calling Raptors games at the very beginning, when the team was still playing in and out of the Skydome- and Maple leaf gardens.

If you can't quite recall those early games- Don't worry- Chuck's got all the details and today he's taking a sweet drive down memory lane.

It's Player's Own Voice. I'm Anasasia Bucsis

[music]

Anastasia: If you did not work in sports, you wanted to be Elton John.

Chuck Swirsky: That's right.

Anastasia: Okay, so pre pre-game ritual- prayer and you listen to an Elton John.

Chuck Swirsky: Yes. I'm still standing.

Anastasia: My favourite is Levon. But yeah, great, great song. Have you ever met him?

Chuck Swirsky: I have not met Elton John personally. I've gone to 11 concerts.

Anastasia: You're a super fan.

Chuck Swirsky: I am a super fan.

Anastasia: Oh, my gosh. And what is it about him?

Chuck Swirsky: I just love his energy. I mean, I love passion. And he brings that every single concert. And we're dating back to when he first came to the States in the seventies and when he was literally hoisting along with a little help from his friends, hoisting a piano down in the pit, you know, I mean, he was off the charts, and then he just got better and better and better. And he was phenomenal.

Anastasia: I've seen him once in concert and yeah, it was just, from start to finish. It was like, I am at an Elton John show and this is a celebration of life!. If I call you Charlie Swirsky, people might get confused.

Chuck Swirsky: yeah

Anastasia: So. because you prefer Charlie.

Chuck Swirsky: I prefer Charlie. I was Charlie as a kid. The first time I heard Chuck, I was a freshman at Ohio University. I'm ready to go on the air for the first time as a college student on the college radio station run by the university. And the news anchor says "Now with today's sports, here is Chuck Swirsky". And there's this pregnant pause and he's pointing, "Go!" Okay. And it's stuck.

Anastasia: So have you made peace with it then?

Chuck Swirsky: Never. Because here's the thing. When you think of Chuck, you think of somebody that's like 6'5" 225 lbs. chiselled. I mean, he's. Chuck Yeah, and here I am. Charlie. 5'9" 150lbs I'm just me. And you know, in class I was a comic, you know, I was the guy who was always sent out of the room. I was talking out of turn. I was probably A.D.D. filled, you know, with a lot of, you know, sparks flying here and there. And I was Charlie and I preferred Charlie.

Anastasia: All right. Well, thank you again for being on the podcast, Charlie

Chuck Swirsky: Thank you.

Anastasia: You didn't make your grade nine basketball team and it still eats you up.

Chuck Swirsky: Yes, it does.

Anastasia: Every day?.

Chuck Swirsky: In my heart, Anastasia, I know I should have made that club. And you know what? I know the coach. I'm not going to throw him under the bus on national TV and radio and digital platforms. But I will say this in my heart because I'm my own worst critic, and if I was really, really bad, I'd tell you and your audience: I was bad!

But in this case, I should be on the team. And I carried that chip on my shoulder. And it happened twice in my life, once when I was 14, 15 years old, and the other was doing an internship at NBC in Cleveland. And I asked the news director to listen to my work, and he came back the next day and said, I think you should go into another profession. And I will never forget that. Ever. And so I went downstairs. I cried in an alley just adjacent to the building. I came back to work and my grandmother rest her soul, from Italy, who was very strong and and very, very transparent. And she said, Hey, this is a learning moment. And you know what? Don't throw yourself into a pool of pity. Be strong, be resilient and get after it.

Anastasia: Well, I mean, what did you say, though, for someone to say, oh, you should find a different profession? Like what? What were you reporting on?

Chuck Swirsky: Well, when you know, it was it was a five minute sportscaster. I gave him a cassette. You probably say What's a cassette? They were little …(laughs) And so he listened and said, You know, I really think I'm not sure your voice is going to transcend into something where people will listen. And I think you should either get behind the scenes, go into some other type of work. And that's what I wanted to do since I was five years young. And at the age of 19 and a half, 20, I was going to be I'm not going to let this derail me.

Anastasia: That is I mean, I'm not blowing smoke when I say you're one of the most iconic voices of sports, So that blows my hair back.

Chuck Swirsky: I get hundreds of tapes from young women and men who have aspirations of getting into sports communication, whether it's radio, television, digital platforms, whatever the case may be. I would never, ever and have never, ever told anyone, :="well, you need to go into another line of work." I want people to chase their dreams. Everyone has a different skill set. Not everyone can compete in the Olympics. All right? It's competitive. I get it. And that's the way it should be.

But who? What right do I have to tell somebody? Oh, here's what I think. Now, do I want constructive criticism? Absolutely. I've been doing this forever. I still have people listening to my work say, hey, you know what? You didn't mention the score enough in the first quarter. And I write that down on a 3x5 card and I put it right in front of me. Score more.

Anastasia: So how then did you not making your Grade nine basketball team inspire this dream that you've gotten to live?

Chuck Swirsky: This is what I wanted to do ever since I was a little boy, period. But I couldn't have done it without mentors and without people coming into my world like, Well, my father died when I was in the sixth grade. I really didn't see him much as a kid. He was a decorated United States naval officer. What I took from my relationship with my father was attention to detail.

He would come home from the naval base when he wasn't on assignment and he would hand me his shoes every day. I'd have to polish them. And if there was one smudge, one! Redo it. We had to make the beds. My two sisters, myself. Make the beds. And if the corners weren't folded, if the quarter didn't bounce off the blanket, redo it. So you learn in your mind at that age, seven, eight, nine, ten years old. Hey, you know what? This is the way it is. And when my father said "dinner's at six," he didn't mean six. He meant 5:45. And if you walked in the house from playing sports on the street or in the park at 6:01. You know what? You're done for the night. Go to your room.

Anastasia: So then the natural kind of evolution is that you got your first job at 14.

Chuck Swirsky: I got my job at 14 on KFKF radio

Anastasia: That wouldn't fly in 2023. Like how do you how do you hire a 14 year old?

Chuck Swirsky: how do you hire a 14 year old? Because I was persistent, probably a bit impetuous. And the sports director was really kind. And what happened is I was keeping stats at 12 years old. My mom would drop me off at a local high school for the game of the week and I would keep stats I had a little binder and I was keeping stats, you know, and all of a sudden during a basketball game, I'll never forget this. It was Mercer Island at Interlake and half time. I gave the stats to the announcer so he could read and he goes, Charlie, I'll tell you what we're going to do. You take over at halftime. "Here are the halftime stats with Charlie Swirsky". And I froze. I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to say. And it was almost like we were just discussing Chuck. Charlie. Well, this is when you're 14. When you're 14, you know, the brain is not aligned yet to what's happening here. And sure enough, I took that paper, Y'know Williams, with 14 points, three rebounds, Jones with ten. You know, Mercer Island up 50 to 46, whatever. And so that's how it started.

Anastasia: Okay, so then you work your way up 14. Ding, ding, ding. All the way to 23.

Chuck Swirsky: Yes.

Anastasia: You get one of the biggest scoops of your career. Frank Robinson, baseball manager. You know, he's going to be fired before anyone. Correct. This is something that could make your career and something that, if it was not true, could also- kibosh.

Chuck Swirsky: Absolutely.

Anastasia: How did you wrestle with making that decision?

Chuck Swirsky: Well, I didn't because I was very immature.

Anastasia: (Laughs) Thanks for the honesty.

Chuck Swirsky: And I'm just being honest with you. I was immature and I violated every journalistic code. But, you know, I'm 23 years old and it's a glorified internship out of college. My second one. And I was at a party, and someone at the party told me, yeah, you know, my dad knows somebody who knows somebody. And Frank Robinson is going to be fired tomorrow. What? I said, Are you sure? Absolutely sure. So then I called a friend of mine in the Cleveland media, who I trusted implicitly, and I said, "Listen, I've got the story and I. I think it's legit". And he goes, "Young man, you know what? I'm not going to tell you what to do, but go for it".

So I interpreted that as saying, well, there's there must be some legs to it. Yeah, but at least that's what I thought. Maybe not. But anyway, so I went with it. So now this is pre internet, pre everything. No emails, no phones, nothing. Okay. So it's not like. Yeah, the world's blowing up. It's nothing. So I'm getting calls now Saturday night because I went with it on the radio station and then Sunday morning race out of the house. And I'm looking for the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Nothing in the newspaper that Frank Robinson was going to be fired. And I'm thinking, what did I do? God, please, no! Swirsk, finished at 23!

But the Cleveland ball club, then known as the Indians, now the Guardians, they called a 10 a.m. press conference. So now I'm driving to the ballpark and I'm saying to myself, okay, this could be a press conference to just say we are changing our uniforms from red to blue, or. And we get there and all of a sudden the GM walks in and then Jeff Torborg walks in, who was a coach under Frank Robinson, and they said, we made a managerial change. This is our new manager.

Anastasia: What did you think to yourself when you heard that?

Chuck Swirsky: I was… I exhaled and I was I was relieved, actually, because, again, you know, that would never work today.

Anastasia: My blood pressure would be … I'd be calling 911.

Chuck Swirsky: Well, can you imagine if you went to CBC? They would say, okay, we don't want you to reveal your sources. How many sources? And are they credible? Well, it was at a party and, you know. Yeah. And I met somebody that I've never met before, and she had a gin and tonic in her hand and said, Yeah, okay, sounds good. Let's go with it.

Anastasia: Let's go! Roll the tape. Oh, okay. So yes, 1979 going way back. You're hosting a call in show for WCFL. Yes. You say you hand out the call in number to like a billion people. Yes. Get two calls. How is it that you found a way to bullshit for an hour like. How Do you do that?

Chuck Swirsky: 4 hours.

Anastasia: 4 hours?

Chuck Swirsky: 4 hours. So I interviewed myself. So, Chuck, you know, let's talk about baseball. What do you think of Dave Kingman? Oh, what about that Cubs clubhouse and the White Sox? Do they need a new ballpark? And so now I'm like, I'm just throwing everything against. And so we did get two calls. One was the wrong number. And I kept her on the line for 20 minutes.

Anastasia: And she was just like, can you let me go, sir?.

Chuck Swirsky: I wouldn't let her go. "I need to go." No, you don't.

Anastasia: Hah!

Chuck Swirsky: No, you're not leaving me. And then there was pizza, and that's how I became educated on deep dish pizza. I didn't know what deep dish pizza was. And. And so, yeah, they said, Hey, I'm here. Can you. Can you step it up? Where's my 18 inch pizza? I said 18 "inch pizza?" They said Yeah, it's a deep dish. I said what's deep dish? "Who is this?"

Anastasia: They knew that you weren't from Chicago right there. Oh, my gosh. Well, you had, what, ten years? Ten great years in Toronto? Then you found yourself back in. In Chicago? Yeah. Can I get a lovely little reminder for all of our people that are listening and watching that you were in the greatest sports city in the world.

Chuck Swirsky: Well, I mean, okay, here's the thing. I love Toronto and I love Canada. I became a Canadian citizen and I'm very proud of that. And I'm very proud of the fact that Nelson Millman, who ran the Fan 590 back in the day, along with the Raptors organisation Larry Tanenbaum and Judy, whom I love, they are awesome human beings, like Better than Awesome and Tom Anselmi, Richard Petty put their faith and trust in having me call their games.

And I got so involved in the community here because I wanted to. I love the Canadian culture. So my ten years here, I miss Canada and I miss everything about Toronto. I miss, you know, what my time was with the Raptors, which was a really neat period of time when the club started growing and developing with Vince Carter and McGrady and then Bosh. And then ten years, I went back to Chicago and very similar. Outstanding ownership. Jerry Michael Reinsdorf fabulous, great organisation. And you know, hopefully in the near future we can have a Bulls- Raptors Eastern Conference play off final and that would be awesome.

Anastasia: Oh, it would be awesome. And Canada misses you.

[music]

Anastasia: You've been really candid about how critical of yourself you are though, and you're very honest and you know you're a perfectionist. I'm going to read: "I am my own worst critic. I beat myself up after a bad game. I am a perfectionist." Where does that come from? Who Are you afraid of disappointing?

Chuck Swirsky: Well, I'm. Afraid of disappointing myself and listeners or viewers. I to this day, I think the thing that really drives me more than anything else is insecurities. There are a lot of times I look in the mirror and I don't like what I see and I need to do a better job in my life whether I have not embraced the platform I'm given, which is a blessing.

And that's why I promised myself when I was a kid, I would send letters out to different sportscasters asking for advice. More often than not, I never heard from people, So I promised myself that if I was ever in a position where I could do this, I would answer every email, listen to every tape, call people. And I think if you ask the majority of people in Toronto or Chicago who reach out, they will tell you that I get back to them within a day or that day, because that's what the type of man and person I want to be.

The insecurity factor is this. I know that what's behind me, and it's almost like a veteran player with the rookie coming up from the big leagues and he was waiting. Well, I get that, but that time hasn't arrived yet. I still have a lot left in the tank and I still think I am. Without sounding self-serving or narcissistic, which I'm not. I still think I can bring it every day. And until that day comes, when I look in the mirror and I say to myself, you know, you're messing up on the air. You're not remembering names, you're doing this, you're doing that, then I'm pulling the plug. That's it.

Anastasia: When you say that, you sometimes struggle to look in the mirror and like what you see, does that come from a place of struggling to love yourself?

Chuck Swirsky: In our industry, it's very, very hard. There's no such thing as balance. And in a personal life, a toll was taken in my personal life, and it's something that I'm not proud of. But, you know, the job requires this. Your personal life requires this. And sometimes it can be uneven. Sometimes very seldom is it equal. Sometimes the job gets the best of your personal life. And in that case, it happened to me. And so you learn from it. You grow from it. You understand. But it also hurts because there are other things at stake than just a game, you know? And that's on me. And you know what? It's very, very difficult to, at times, comprehend all the things, the ripple effect it's had, but it has had a ripple effect.

Anastasia: Oh, I struggle with balance, big time. So I came from a high performance background, right? I was a speed skater. And so I sit in this chair and I think, Do I have what it takes to be a broadcaster? You, of course, are a prolific voice, name, analyst of a lot of games, but you never played at that high performance level. Do you sometimes get insecure about that?

Chuck Swirsky: Well, here's the thing. You reached the highest level as an athlete, as an Olympian. I mean, the hard work and the skill. I mean, you did have skill, but you also have to have the mental edge to get up at four in the morning when other people would say, take the alarm clock and throw it against the wall. And I don't think, you know, they really mind if I take a day off? Well, no, the reason why you're an Olympian is because it's hard work. Hard work isn't easy. Hard work is hard.

Anastasia: And it's not sexy.

Chuck Swirsky: No, it's not.

Anastasia: It's not.

Chuck Swirsky: And so the same thing happens in broadcasting. So we've got a game. We're taping this, we're playing the raptors. And I've seen the last five Raptors games, and I critique them like, if I were a coach or a scout and people are saying, Well, that's OCD. No, it's not, because I want to find out their substitution pattern. I want to find out why this player all of a sudden his minutes are going up or down. What the Raptors are running out of time out plays, all these things. And so that to me adds to the legitimacy, the credibility, the foundation of my knowledge. So when I walk into Scotiabank Arena for this game, I know in my heart I'm prepared.

Now, I may use only 7% of everything, but you know what? So be it. I'd rather have that than walk in and say I can wing it because you can't. Now, there's a great quote from a jazz singer. Blues singer. His name is Dick Mackie. I'm 25 years old, I'm with a friend watching him perform and he knows my friend. The set is over. He walks over to the table and we start talking for a few minutes. He says: What do you do? And I said, I'm a sports talk show host here in Columbus. He goes, I'm going to give you a piece of advice. He said, You better take care of your homework, because if you don't, somebody will. And that has resonated throughout my soul to this day, years later. Yeah.

[music]

Anastasia: I love that you say Scotiabank Arena. I want to take us back again. First raps game you ever called? I think it was a pre-season game and it was in Maple Leaf Gardens.

Chuck Swirsky: It was, the first preseason game was at Skydome, we did a Maple Leaf Gardens game with Milwaukee right before the Air Canada ceremonial Scotiabank open.

Anastasia: Okay, so what was it like in MLG?

Chuck Swirsky: Maple Leaf Gardens? It was it was fabulous because I had seen a hockey game. We were in a lockout. Yeah. So, you know, we didn't start playing until February. But and so that game with Milwaukee, we had just played on the road Boston, Washington and we came home to play against Milwaukee at Maple Leaf Gardens and here I had been to this historic building. I mean, it's gorgeous. It's wonderful. And I'm thinking, how cool is this to do a basketball game of Maple Leaf Gardens?

And the game itself was not good for the Raptors. Milwaukee won, but I mean, to be a part of that was great. And then to be a part of the first game ever played at ACC or Scotiabank now, against the Vancouver Grizzlies, because the night before the Maple Leafs had played the Montreal Canadiens in the first game ever played in that building.

Anastasia: Yeah, and then two Canadian teams I got to admit I was I was a Grizz fan growing up. Like I'm from Calgary, right so I had to cheer for the West Coast and it's a whole thing. but yeah. And then so and then Kevin Willis came up to after that game and gave you some advice.

Chuck Swirsky: (laughs) So my first broadcast, first regular season game and we're in Boston. Raptors win. Great game. And remember, I came from a college background. I had done 18 years of DePaul, which is a school in Chicago and the University of Michigan. And so here I am, I'm fired up. We're on our way to Washington, D.C. I'm on a charter plane. We're staying at the Ritz and the Four Seasons. I have never experienced this. You know, I'm like the slow mo inn, y'know?

And so here I am and I'm in the back of the plane and I'm just pumped up. And Kevin Willis, he's coming. He has back spasms. He is lying down on the floor of the plane and he's looking at me and he said, Hey, Kevin, that was that was awesome. And he goes, Hey, we have 49 left in like 85 days! Pump the brakes a little bit!

Anastasia: Slow your roll. Yeah. You were a big fan of Vince Carter, too, when he was here. Yes. Did you feel like…

Chuck Swirsky: Well, we had our moments as well at the end.

Anastasia: Okay, so let's get into that. Did you feel like it was a big chunk of your job to introduce this superstar? To Torontonians. So they, you know, bums in seats?

Chuck Swirsky: Well, he didn't number one, he didn't need much because he played above the rim. So I gave him the nickname Air Canada Carter, which coincided with the building. But also he took flight , the airline the whole bit. And so pretty clever right?

Anastasia: Yeah that is.

Chuck Swirsky: I'm only kidding but I mean he did the work I just broadcast and he was spectacular because he was doing this three or four times a game. It was a dunkathon. And people had never seen this before, whether it was in Toronto or Canada.,,anywhere.

Anastasia: Yeah.

Chuck Swirsky: And so now they're saying, Hey, have you seen this guy, number 15, this guy Vince Carter. What? Whoa!. And so the TV ratings, radio ratings are going through the roof because of Vince. I mean, he was fabulous.

And then some injuries came and then he wanted out. And it was a messy divorce between the two parties. And so I think, Vince, you know, it's not that I turned on Vince, but as a broadcaster for a team, I had to be pretty honest and say, listen, we've got a player here that wants out. We have a team that's trying to accommodate them. His value right now because of injuries and he was making a good salary. You know, it's hard to find a team right now, which it was.

And then at the last second, Vince didn't want to leave, but by that time, a verbal agreement had been made with the Nets to make that trade. It was not a very good trade, but it was the best they could get at that point. And I've never done this with the exception of Vince, and I like Vince very much as a person and as a player. But I let my own personal feelings cross that line into professional waters, and I should not have. So I wrote him a letter. I wrote him a letter when he was with the Dallas Mavericks. I put it in his stall and basically it was just, Hey, you know what? I apologise because it was really hard watching him play so well with the Nets, especially against the Raptors.

And, you know, it was because he was the face of this country and he influenced basketball on so many levels, both for young boys and young girls who wanted to get a jump start. And we have 23 Canadians now in the NBA. While maybe they didn't see for a rookie coming in at the age of 20, they never saw Vince played with the Raptors. But I tell you who did see. Their parents saw Vince play for the Raptors or a player Tristan Thompson, Cory Joseph, Kelly Olynyk, saw Vince Carter. DeMar DeRozan of the Bulls. Yeah he saw Vince play and he knows the history of Vince Carter with the Raptors. So that's my Vince Carter moment.

Anastasia: Did he reply to the letter?

Chuck Swirsky: Indirectly… Kind of. Sort of. I think he felt, you know, but… yeah, I mean it wasn't so much I'm expecting him to respond as much as from a… from a human element standpoint. It was almost therapeutic for me to write that letter.

Anastasia: Mm hmm. Let's pivot to Kobe Bryant. You watched him score 81 against Toronto.

Chuck Swirsky: Yes, I did.

Anastasia: He hit everything. What was that like to see in the flesh? What was he just doing that no one else was?

Chuck Swirsky: Well, with Kobe. Interesting story. When I was at the University of Michigan broadcasting their games, a former Michigan player who was attending law school, Rob Pelinka, later became Kobe's agent and is now the GM of the Lakers. But he was my broadcast partner. So the Raptors go into L.A. It's a Sunday night, 6:00 tip.

Raptors not a very good team. Lakers, an above average team. Nothing really spectacular about that club except on this Sunday. The Raptors led by 18 points late second early third quarter. And all of a sudden, bam, Kobe steals a pass, goes mid-court, goes to the rim, dunks it, crowd going crazy. And Kobe, who had a really good first half, feels the moment. He is seizing this opportunity and he put. 18 19,000 plus at Staples and the Lakers franchise on his back.

The Raptors threw everyone at him that particular game, whether it was Chris Bosh, Matt Bonner, Mike James, Moe Peterson, Jalen Rose didn't matter. He was… Kobe was on a mission. He scored 81 points. So the next time we came to Staples, the following season we're at Staples, and I asked Rob if I could interview him for the pregame. Rob said, Absolutely. From that moment on, I would meet with Kobe before games in Toronto, L.A., Chicago, L.A. with the Bulls, for a few minutes before every game just to say, "Hey, what's going on? Have you been How's the family?"

He loved his family. And then I was in a museum in Chicago when my phone was exploding. With news that the helicopter had crashed. I was in disbelief. I was stunned. I was shocked. And my heart goes out not only to Vanessa and the family, but also the others that were killed in the plane crash and their families. You know, this is something that happens when a celebrity dies tragically and there are people involved that we kind of lose sight of the fact that other human beings were in that helicopter. Other families were affected. But Kobe being larger than life, the second half of his world, Anastasia, was going to be so beautiful because he was so much more than a basketball player. I mean, to just hear him talk about life and the mamba mentality of just getting after it and exposing yourself to… this is if you really want to be an Olympian, you may not get there. But if you want this, these are steps that you've got to take. What we discussed earlier discipline, hard work. Self-determination, nutrition, all these things.

So, you know. I mean, to this day are our players meaning whether it's the Bulls or the NBA, they grew up watching Kobe. They're now at a stage in their life. We're in their mid to late twenties where they idolised Kobe and LeBron. And I mean, what Kobe gave basketball, but more importantly, what he gave young people with this mentality of just, you know, how badly do you want it? That was, wow.

Anastasia: You've had so many relationships with so many icons. Kobe Bryant, Wayne Gretzky, Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Mickey Mantle, Willie Mays list goes on and on and on. What do you think was the single most unifying characteristic of those folks?

Chuck Swirsky: Heart. It's always about the heart, you know, because there are going to be athletes that are bigger, stronger, whatever. And I get that. There are going to be athletes that are late bloomers. They're going to be athletes that come onto the scene and have a great run. Then all of a sudden an injury takes them out of their world and all of a sudden they find themselves on a different planet than what they were accustomed to. And they have to fight and scratch and, you know, get back to the point where, you know, I can at least look in the mirror and enjoy the benefits of still playing.

We had a guy in Chicago, Derrick Rose, 22 years old, MVP of the league. Everyone's loving him. Shoe deals. Commercials. Then all of a sudden, you know, a year later, playoff game, Game one opening round. Philadelphia, you know, less than 2 minutes to go in the game, Bulls up by 12. He throws a jump pass, crumples to the floor, ACL. Boom, just like that. Missed the whole year, comes back after all this work. Playing Portland all of a sudden goes down again MCL. other knee. And he's never been the same player. He's still in the league because he loves it. But we will never see that Derrick Rose of 2011 again. So but to his credit, he loves the sport so much that he pays the price to say, okay, I'm not the Derrick Rose back then, but you know what? I can be the Derrick Rose of today. And how does that happen? It happens because of the heart.

Anastasia: As an athlete, you can question almost anything about me. You can question my intelligence. But as soon as you question my heart, I am not a violent person, but I'm like, let's go. Like, that is the biggest insult that anyone could ever throw my way or I think any athlete's way. But that's a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant answer. Okay. I'm going to let you go real quick. My producer's son, who's also a friend, Joe, he goes, I need you to expand upon "onions, baby onions" and "get out the salami and cheese" like when something's good. Yeah, you just start shouting grocery lists!.

Chuck Swirsky: So, yeah. I left the salami and cheese in Toronto. I did not bring it to Chicago because that's out of respect for Canada. So I got a letter and it was a letter, no email, and it was from a guy and he said, Listen, you know, I've watched the games, I'm into the raps, the whole bit. And, you know, I get so worked up, I can't eat. So, you know, when the Raptors are winning, can you kind of just say, Hey, this game is great? And he goes, I love sandwiches. I love salami and cheese.

So I read this letter and thought, okay, so we get this. You know, the Raptors are up by like eight points with about 22 seconds to go and all of a sudden I say, "Get out this salami and cheese, Mama, this ball game is over!" . And our producer in the truck, Dan Gladman, hits the button. "Chuck, are you okay?" And I hit the button. I said, Dan, it's good. He goes, "What? Salami and what?" And so after the game, Here's where he goes, Wow. Well, the switchboard blew up. They loved it.

Anastasia: They loved it.

Chuck Swirsky: And so that was it. The onions, baby onions. So Bill Raftery, who works at CBS, he came up actually it was a term from Ray Meyer at DePaul about onions, you know. And so I just took it to another level. Yeah. So when a guy hits a big shot. Yeah. Onions, baby. Onions.

Anastasia: What I don't understand, like, I've always interpreted that onions make you cry, but it's a good thing.

Chuck Swirsky: Well, this is a G-rated show.

Anastasia: PG 13.

Chuck Swirsky: PG 13. Let's just say that when a player steps up, he is the man.

Anastasia: Yeah. Okay, I'm getting a visual. Should we end this podcast with. With just like, an argument? Let's start an argument. Sure. What's your all time starting five for the Raptors.

Chuck Swirsky: My all time Starting 5? Well, you got to have Vince Carter and you have to have Demar and you have to have Lowry and you have to have Bosh. And I would say probably I'm going with Damon Stoudemire.

Anastasia: No Kawhi?

Chuck Swirsky: Okay. You want to get in that argument? I'll give you an argument. Number one, I think Kawhi Leonard brought the Raptors a championship. Yeah, that. Okay, I get it. I also think that's just my opinion that I think DeMar DeRozan would've brought the Raptors a championship. That's just my opinion. So you can't go wrong with either one. But I think Kawhi Leonard, he will always be considered a San Antonio spur and not a raptor, not a clipper.

Anastasia: There we have it. I'm going to clip that. We're going to put it on Twitter and get the folks talkin.

Chuck Swirsky: There you go.

Anastasia: Thank you so much for your time. I know you're running to a game in like 10 seconds. So I just appreciate, you Chuck.

Chuck Swirsky: Know, this is awesome. It's not every day I get a chance to meet an Olympian, so.

Anastasia: Thank you, Charlie.

Chuck Swirsky: Thank you. My pleasure.

[music]

Anastasia: Charlie Swirsky and I connected in CBC sports digital studio, here in his old home town of Toronto.

Players Own Voice podcast is a cbc sports production.

We're available on CBC Listen and everywhere else you get your podcasts

Hashtag players own voice... and I am @Anastasure on everything social.

Olivia Pasquarelli edits our audio.

Adam Blinov wrote our music.

David Giddens is our producer.

Thanks for listening. Onions baby, onions.