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Now or Never: The Power of Drag Transcript

Prologue

TREVOR DINEEN: Welcome to Now or Never, the show that jumps into the sometimes scary, joyful, sad, and always unpredictable moments of everyday life. I'm Trevor Dineen.

IFY CHIWETELU: And I am Ify Chiwetelu. And it is a chilly afternoon in the town of Morden, Manitoba.

[music and general chatting fade up]

IC: And a few dozen people have gathered outside a united church. They're holding rainbow flags and signs that say things like "love knows no gender"; "honk for gays"; "more glitter, less bitter". This group's mission is simple: protect the brunch.

Drag Brunch Protection

SPEAKER: Well, we had been made aware that there might be some protesters at this event today, and we wanted to make sure that the performers, the participants, everybody that came to this, knew that there was lots of support and a lot of people that were very glad this is happening, and wanted to make it a very positive, supportive event. And so, a bunch of us came together to stand outside in the cold and make sure that anyone who came to the doors knew they were, that this was an event that's valued and they are valued.

TD: This is the first-ever drag brunch to happen in Morden. And despite a handful of protesters outside, the vibe inside is pure joy.

[pulsing dance music and elated cheers]

SPEAKER #2: Having a drag brunch like this, on the one hand, it's a performance, and it's a wonderful performance. And so, there's that opportunity. It also sends a message of inclusion, of just celebration, of joy, of variety, of identities, of who people are.

[the music fades back up with clapping in accompaniment]

SPEAKER #2: And so, events like this are a wonderful way for people to connect so that we can come together as a community and know you're not alone. You know, you have support. You have a community right here. You don't have to leave the area to find your rainbow community. We're right here.

[the cheers grow louder and fade]

TD: I love it. Events like this are happening everywhere.

IC: Yeah! Drag, the art of exaggerating femininity, masculinity, gender, expression, it has never been more popular. There's RuPaul's Drag Race, Drag queen's storytimes at libraries, drag brunches, performances at gay bars. But with all that popularity, there's been backlash.

SOUNDCLIP

ANCHOR: A number of libraries across Canada have reported threats and intimidating messages recently. They're focused on events that feature people in drag reading aloud.

[the CBC News theme]

ANCHOR #2: Tonight, North Battleford and the wider community are taking an inclusive stance as the local arts centre is swarmed with hateful calls because of a drag queen bingo fundraiser.

ANCHOR #3: A crowd of supporters greeted with hugs and a whole lot of love. But she walks with police as demonstrators shout slurs at her and the crowd.

[Now or Never theme]

TD: Drag is being performed in communities big and small all across the country. And today, you're going to meet the people behind the makeup -- to find out why these drag artists do what they do, despite the controversy and the hate. And the surprising ways drag has changed their lives.

[theme grows in volume]

TD: This is Now or Never!

IC: May the best drag queen win!

TD: That's not the, it's like not actually a race.

IC: Trevor, you need to get up on these RuPaul references, or it's going to be a really long show for you.

TD: I'll start watching.

IC: [laughing] Now, sissy that walk!

[theme continues and fades]

Sudbury Student’s Drag Show

Guest: Ra'Jah

IC: In the past few months alone, drag events in Windsor, P.E.I., Victoria, Calgary, Guelph, and more have been cancelled or rescheduled due to threats of violence. And in Tennessee, a law just passed that bans drag shows in public spaces. But in Sudbury, there is one 16-year-old determined to make sure that the show goes on.

RA'JAH: Drag shows, yes, they give me life. Yes, they give me entertainment when I'm watching them. But it gives me a safe space. You know, that's not easy to come by where I live and where I'm from originally as well. So to have a safe space where you can talk about queer culture, where you can experience queer culture, is powerful. It gives me a sense that I'm safe. And it gives me a sense that I'm in my community.

[dance music]

RA'JAH: So my name is Ra'Jah I'm a 16-year-old Sudburian student with an Egyptian Nubian background and a muslim background. And, you know, we had a drag show that was cancelled for various reasons. And now, we're planning another one, and it is taking place.

[dance music swells]

TD: Ra'Jah gets things done. He's a straight-A student on track to graduate high school a year early. He's co-president of the student council, and a budding drag queen on the side. But being out, proud, and queer, it doesn't always feel easy.

RA'JAH: I think I'm just going to be honest and say, you know, it can be lonely, and it can be very depriving just because there's less queer people, there's less of a community here. But don't mistake that for a lesser quality. Because I feel that my community is very strong no matter what. I mean, I definitely get harassed in the street, sometimes just getting called the N-word, getting called, you know, the F-word, queer slurs, you know, racial slurs. But that's definitely the minority of people because I have so much support. And if I'm being honest, like, being a queer 16-year-old, I wouldn't trade it, in Sudbury, I wouldn't trade it for a thing because I feel powerful with my people.

IC: Because of his age and where he lives, opportunities for Ra'Jah to connect with community and feel that power, it can be limited. So when queens come to town, it's a big deal!

RA'JAH: It was just a normal day. I was walking around the hallways as I do, and one of my favourite teachers came up to me. And we were just chatting. And she mentioned, okay, I have, I have big news for you. Okay, there is a show that's coming to the school and guess who is part of that show? I was like, who? And then she told me Icesis Couture.

SOUNDCLIP

[dramatic music]

RUPAUL: The winner of Canada's Drag Race, Season Two is [dramatic pause] Icesis Couture!

[the music becomes more dancy as people cheer]

RA'JAH: The Icesis Couture is coming to my school in Sudbury, Ontario.

SOUNDCLIP

RUPAUL: Let Grandma win the whole damn show! [people laugh]

RA'JAH: You know, to hear about this show was everything. Like, I was so excited.

SOUNDCLIP

ICESIS COUTURE: I'm able to make the world better just by being myself.

RUPAUL: Long live the queen!

RA'JAH: Drag is not something that I ever expected I would ever see in a school because I felt like there's so many protests and there's so much hate against my community, against queerness, against the drag community. And to see that it was being valued, my art form was being valued, I was, you know, I was just so happy about it. I was, I was really overjoyed.

[dance music fades up]

RA'JAH: So when I heard that the show was not going to be happening, I was devastated. I'm not going to lie. It felt like a slap in the face. You know, this, this presentation was more than just drag, and it was more than just art. It was a chance for kids to feel accepted and to see themselves, which is not something that we relatively get here. I find that a lot of queer kids feel lonely, they feel outcasted, pariah-ed. But to have such an instrumental art form and person come was, was, you know, a light. And the fact that it was cancelled meant that that light went out.

[music swells]

RA'JAH: I immediately knew that the show must happen because that's who I am. Like, to hear the word no in such a context, it's not enough for me. So I'm the type of person that demands answers. And if I don't get those answers, then I will advocate. I will do anything I can in my power to get those answers. And if it's not good enough, then, you know, I'll throw my own party. So, when it comes to this show, I literally, as soon as I found out that it was cancelled, I started planning. I created a petition, which now has over 2,700 signatures, I want to say. I immediately threw myself into working on a campaign, even though it was literally exam week. I wouldn't let that stop me. I held a protest in front of my school.

SOUNDCLIP

RA'JAH: Classroom, not a closet. Classroom, not a closet.

RA'JAH: Just to show that we don't accept that Rainbow District School Board, we don't accept their decision because their decision really isn't good enough for us, and we're not going to accept it. So tomorrow, we are having the show, the Courage Tour performance, the presentation, the everything of it all, culminating at Collège Boréal's Salle Trisac. And, you know, it's going to be a lot of fun. People are going to be living their authentic selves. They're going to be there. They're going to be enjoying themselves. They're going to be hearing these amazing and powerful stories, and they're going to be taking it all in and hopefully taking something with them as they leave.

SOUNDCLIP

[clapping and cheering]

SPEAKER: Thank you all so much for being here. I would like to start by saying thank you to Ra'jah. Everyone, please put your hands together for Ra'jah.

[clapping and cheering]

SPEAKER: You're such an amazing person. And the way that you were able to pull this off is absolutely amazing and inspiring. And this is why we continue to do exactly what we're doing. It is for people like you, and we love you so very much.

[clapping and cheering]

SPEAKER: Are you guys excited?

[clapping and cheering]

[dance music fades up]

RA'JAH: The impact I'd like this whole event to have is just to see people, especially queer kids, they're going to see themselves. They are going to understand that they are not alone. And they're going to take that experience, and they're going to take that knowledge, and they're going to apply it in their lives to, you know, make other people understand that they are who they are and they should not change that.

[music continues to swell and fades out]

IC: Trevor, Ra'Jah is 16 years old. [both laugh]

TD: I know. And not afraid to stand up and just take on the world.

IC: Yeah, I love that. The future is yours, Ra'Jah.

TD: Now, in a statement to Now or Never, the Rainbow District School Board said, in part, the decision to not approve the presentation was based on educational content and our commitment to focus on our existing events. Rainbow District School Board values all of its students.

IC: Now, if you want to see photos of Raja at his successful event, standing tall alongside drag queens, drag royalty, Icesis Couture and Suki Doll, head to our CBC Now or Never Instagram and Facebook, or you can head to our website where you can see photos of all of our guests today. That's at: www.cbc.ca/nowornever.

[dance music swells and fades]

Staying Sober Through Drag

Guest: Benz Menova

IC: This is Now or Never. I am Ify Chiwetelu.

TD: And I'm Trevor Dineen. And today, we're stepping out on the runway with queens and kings who are spreading love through drag. And I know, Ify, very well that you have been a huge fan of Drag Race. I've heard you talk about Drag Race. I know you know all the different queens on Drag Race, but I want to know, I'm going to send you a photo, do you know this one performer?

IC: Okay, I'm looking at one picture. It's super blurry. Can't make it out. Blonde wig, very tall, showing a little bit of leg. So no guesses just yet.

TD: What you're looking at is a picture of me.

IC: What?!

TD: Back in 1996, [IC laughs in roars] Rockin' the old drag outfit at a high school fashion show in which I stepped out on stage with two of my buddies. We were dressed up as ladies, and we owned that stage, Ify Chiwetelu. We walked the runway. [IC continues to laugh] We danced. We put on a show. And we sat back and soaked in the applause.

IC: Trevor Dineen.

TD: Yes.

IC: I would have never guessed.

TD: I know!

IC: No part of me was ready to imagine you in this picture that I'm looking at with my own eyes. It's a good look on you; you've never looked better. [TD laughs brightly] I'm going to say it.

TD: It's just a good reminder that the drag truly is everywhere and has been for such a long time. And it's for all types of audiences, including my high school gymnasium for an audience of teenagers and teachers. But our next guest's audiences are very decidedly 18-plus.

[cheers and dance music]

BENDS MENOVA: So that looks like a lot of skin. I like to flick my tongue a lot. I approach people in the audience and, you know, I, I specifically direct lyrics towards them. I do a lot of twirls, a lot of hair flips, a lot of sticking, you know, my butt out, that sort of stuff.

[rap song fades up]

BM: I describe her as an amalgamation of bad decisions.

[cheers]

TD: Benz Menova is the drag alter ego of Liam Ingram. Think long legs, short skirts, and blonde wigs. Just like her drag name, Benz's drag performances are geared firmly toward adults. And you won't find her at a drag story time. But to Liam, Benz is more than just a character who performs at a bar. She's the way he stays sober.

BM: I say that she's an amalgamation of bad decisions because my addictive side of me is completely different than the everyday me. I grew up being very goody two shoes. I went to a theatre high school. I did very well in life. And after high school, I ended up getting into the booze. And in that time, I was tricked into doing crystal meth. I ended up going to rehab when I was 19.

[ephemeral electronic music]

BM: But where drag comes in is before I ended up going to rehab, in high school, I took advanced theatre in high school, and I felt really happy when I was on the stage. And so after rehab, I ended up, you know, wanting to do theatre again but in my own way. I ended up deciding to drag and making my own character rather than doing characters that are scripted and that I'd have to learn about. I know myself. I know the way I am. And so, I say that she's an amalgamation of bad decisions because she ended up coming about from my hardships in life. When I get a substance in me, I am a completely different person. I've got different traits. I've got different qualities. When I'm using, I feel powerful. I'm sex-driven. I've been deceiving. All those sorts of character qualities that I have when I'm using are not me when I'm not using. So having Benz, it's kind of like dipping my toe into my addictive side. That way, I don't have the urge to go back. I still get a little bit of a, of a taste of my drug life through her, the whole lustful, the powerful; I can still end up diving into that part of me without having to compromise my life.

[ephemeral electronic music]

BM: There's been a lot of, a lot of moments where she's been quite powerful. I was asked to do a CBC segment on myself, and the reason why I do drag called From Drugs to Drag. My mom was a big part of that, that segment. And I got to hear a side of the story that my mom presented that I really hadn't known before.

SOUNDCLIP

MOM: He came downstairs, and I said, who are you? I don't even know who you are. Somewhere inside of that man is my son. And I want you to tell that son of mine I refuse to bury him. And I gave him an ultimatum and told him that if he was going to continue to do the drugs, he'd have to pack his bags and move out or seek help.

[music continues]

BM: Today, I can say that I'm close to 60 days of complete sobriety again. So, drag is now my drug because it's something that I look forward to. It's something that any time I get a booking, any time I'm creating something, I get a euphoric feeling. I look forward to the next time I get to be in drag because I get to share my story again. I get to be on stage. I get to do something that I love.

[ephemeral music]

Drag King Mom

Guest: Marisa Rosa Grant

TD: You know what I learned this week about drag, Ify?

IC: Um, that you did it when you were a child. [both laugh] I still could not get over that picture.

TD: Oh, I'm so happy I was able to pull that one out. But no, I actually did not know that there were drag kings, like people who play with the masculine presentation and performance. Like, I thought drag was only, only the queens.

IC: Well, Trevor, I am honoured to let you get to know a drag king right now. But in this moment, they're in their other role: as a mom.

MARISA ROSA GRANT: So, do you remember the first time I showed you me in drag? Do you remember that time? And I did it on you. I was getting ready.

ROMEO: Oh yeah, now I remember?

MRG: Yeah, you were like, oh, I want it too! And then we took a photo together. I made you a little beard like mine.

IC: Marisa Rosa Grant is in the middle of one of the many conversations they've had with their eight-year-old son Romeo about performing drag.

MRG: But did you know that my name was Buster, or was it just this past summer that you really understood it? I think you were pretty young.

R: I think I knowed that name already. So yeah.

IC: During the day, Marisa has many roles: parent, podcaster, event producer. But on stage, that is where Buster is unleashed.

[Boombastic by “Shaggy”]

MRG: Buster Highman is the most masculine, aggressive, toxic parody of a man version of myself. It's very much like a, like a man with a very puffed-out chest. He's very confident. He stands out in a crowd.

[cheering]

MRG: Yeah, I just try to be really funny about it. I am one of the, like, a comedy king, yeah.

IC: There is nothing subtle about Buster's big, brash, masked personality. But the road to becoming Buster, it started deep in the closet.

MRG: I was at my parents place for a weekend, and I was just going through my dad's closet because he has a lot of nice suits, and he goes to church a lot. So he just has a collection of every different colour suit. And I was just curious to know, like, if they fit me because maybe there would be a day that I want, like, a nice oversized blazer look [chuckling]. So I was trying one on, and it was, I remember it being this beige colour with a bit of a pattern on it, like a speckled pattern. And I went to the washroom, and in there, my mom has all of her makeup, so, oh, I hope she doesn't hear this. But I went and went in on my face and eyeliner and just started drawing, like, some stubble on my face. It was pretty, like, whoa, like, I do look like a man right now. I'm definitely giving man.

IC: You describe discovering this almost like you happened upon it. You were just looking at your dad's church suits. Do you think there was something that you were looking for?

MRG: I definitely was looking for myself. I see and felt at that time in the way that I was presenting that I was performing femininity. Like, I grew up going to church and, like, wearing dresses and all of that. And I didn't really have the opportunity to explore outside of that until I went to university. Because in high school, it was uniform. So we were wearing, like, skirts, like kilts. And, and it was when I was going through my dad's things that I really started to kind of tap more into a more masculine side, like the most masculine, to then kind of scale back slowly and peel back at that, to then find what looked good for me and felt good for me.

[light rock]

IC: You know, you describe Buster as this, like, hyper-masculine, toxic, [chuckle] intentionally toxic personality. And you are a mother to an eight-year-old young, Black son. How do those things intersect for you?

MRG: They intersect by way of parody, by playing it off and playing it so intensely. Its intention is for us to kind of, like, sit with ourselves. Like, my performance is, like, though it's funny, but like, if you sit back and look at that, like, is it not silly to be so ridiculous and toxic and doing these very masculine, ridiculous things all to prove what, you know? And I find that, especially within Jamaican culture, it's so taboo to be seen as soft. And it's so taboo to be seen as having emotions. Whoa. Scary! Men crying, wow! So it's very much trying to show, like, once he goes back someday and once, like, my son wants to go back and watch my performances, he hasn't really been to a full show to see it, but I think he will laugh and understand, like, that's really silly.

[Boombastic by “Shaggy”]

IC: I mean, it's clear that you don't necessarily keep Buster and that performance completely separate from, from Romeo. Like, he knows what it is that you do. What do you hope he sees in that?

MRG: I hope he sees that Gender is something that can be played with. And it's not these hard roles. For me to go from being what the world would see me as a woman, to then go to become a man. And, like, anything in between that, it's just so playful. I want people to just explore, explore and find what feels right. Because I think that has stopped myself and, like, so many other people from really understanding themselves because just being so stuck on what am I supposed to be doing right now. Or how am I supposed to be presenting? How am I supposed to let people see me? And it really should be about, like, who am I inside?

[dance music]

IC: There is a lot more to Marisa's story and quite a few places that you can catch up. Marisa's featured on the third season of drag Heals that is on OutTV right now. As well, Marisa shared an essay on our website: www.cbc.ca/nowornever, about drag, finding yourself, and motherhood. Check it out.

TD: Still to come on Now or Never. After hiding who they truly were for 37 years, find out how coming out and stepping into a drag persona helped save a man's life. That's coming up in just a little bit.

[ephemeral music]

Making Drag With Traditional Punjabi Clothing

Guest: Nimrat the Drag

TD: This is Now or Never. I'm Trevor Dineen.

IC: And I am Ify Chiwetelu. And today, we are exploring the power of drag. And Trevor, let me tell you, the first time I saw a drag performance.

TD: Mm-hmm.

IC: It was powerful.

TD: Yeah?

IC: Yeah! It was years ago when I was still living in Calgary, during Calgary Pride, in this parking lot. [chuckling] It was an outdoor performance. And the details, for the most part, are a bit fuzzy. But what I do remember was just being struck by just the audacity of the performance, like the swag, the confidence, the way of playing with the audience and those watching in a way that, you know, outside of that realm of performance you just can't get away with. It was mesmerizing. It felt like to be a drag performer was to have this larger-than-life experience. But that skill in that confidence, it often starts from the very unsure beginnings of a first-time performance.

[traditional Punjabi music and clapping]

NIMRAT THE DRAG: I was definitely nervous. I asked her, you know, I gave a thumbs up. Like, you know, just play the soundtrack. They called, like, so welcome on the stage a new Punjabi drag queen, Nimrat the Drag. And when she started singing, I turned my back, and I was in the zone.

[the music and cheering intensify]

NTD: I was like, okay, this is my song. This is what Nimrat would do. I loved it. I was like, you know, I am a building performer. I was like, I should perform more.

IC: Four months ago, Nimrat the Drag was working at a warehouse in Surrey, B.C. when a friend invited her to perform at a local event in support of the city's South Asian queer community. It was Nimrat's first time performing in traditional Indian clothing.

NTD: The thing I was wearing was, like, a blue pants salwar suit which women wear in Punjab region of India. When I bought that Punjabi suit. That was it. And it felt really accomplished. Like, you know, this is me. This is what I want to do.

[poppy music]

NTD: So my name, Nimrat the Drag, is after one of the, like, Punjabi singers. Her name is Nimrat Khaira.

[a song by Nimrat Khaira]

NTD: I chose that name because, first of all, like, Nimrat means kindness. And most of the time, people are like, oh, you're so kind. You're so cute. And I'm like, I'm kind of cute like her. So, let's go with that. [laughing warmly] And boys are so crazy about her. And her nickname is Nimo, which is like, you know, my nickname I chose for myself. And I was going with that kind of vibe, like, you know, be flirtatious, with some culture. Be that kind of, like, you know, naive girl. [chuckling]

IC: Nimrat's interest in drag started from a young age, when they would watch their mom and aunties get dressed up.

NTD: In childhood, during weddings, like, you know, I saw my aunties getting ready. Like, you know, taking their time, being like, you know, bitchy about the tots. Like, you know, she did that, she did that. And they're doing that. And I'm like, oh, that's some spies over there! While they're doing makeup, while they're getting ready. And when, like, you know, I saw my mother putting face powder on. I was like, I should also put face powder on. And my mother restricted me to do that. Like, you know, you shouldn't do that. It's not a guy's thing to do that. And that urge turned into, like, you know, into something which, uh, asked me to do drag.

IC: At the time, Nimrat knew they were gay, but the thought of coming out to family was terrifying. So they kept the truth about themselves hidden for a long time.

NTD: At one point, I was so shook that I tried to, like, you know, sabotage myself. I was suicidal. Yeah, I did end up in the hospital.

[sad instrumental]

NTD: When I outed myself to my mother, I told her that I ended up in the hospital. And she didn't also understand about it. Like, you know, me being a gay person. I was like, okay, she didn't care about me. How should I care about her? And when I started drag, I shared, and she stopped talking to me. We were, like, on non-speaking terms. And I was like, she doesn't have any right in my life to, like, you know, know everything I do. My father doesn't know yet that I'm gay. They don't know about me being a drag queen. He was trying to build that bridge. Like, you know, there was something wrong between me and my mother. So he was trying to call me, like, you know, you should call your mother. You should ask her how she is because she was suffering from heart conditions. I tried to talk to her in between as well, but she was like, when you will like, you know, accept that you're not a gay person. You will, like, you know, grow your beard back, which I shaved for drag purposes. You'll say that you'll marry a girl. I'll then talk to you.

[sad music is back]

NTD: My mother, she passed away January 2023. Like, I tried to talk to my father, and my sister has told me, like, you know, not to tell him yet. He is, like, you know, an overthinking person. I know that. Same as my mother. I'm hoping for the day that my family will accept me. My father will embrace me as he will embrace a straight boy. And I am, I'm really, like, you know, having that kind of manifestation.

IC: Without the support of their family, Nimrat was looking for belonging elsewhere, and they found it in the tight-knit queer South Asian community in Surrey.

NTD: I was really mesmerized. They're, like, all South Asian people who are, like, from LGBTQ2I community, and they are being supportive of each other, and they're parents of those people. It was feeling like, you know, I'm home. My drag family started from there. So collectively, they are my chosen family.

[synths]

NTD: Five years from now, Nimo will be in, maybe, Canada's Drag Race. [laughing] She will be, like, you know, performing around the world. She has, maybe, she has a companion and that time. [warm laughter] Maybe. And also, maybe she will be embraced by her family.

[dance music]

IC: You can see photos of Nimrat in her Punjabi outfit, as well as pictures of all the performers you're hearing on our show today, on our website. Head to: www.cbc.ca/nowornever.

[dance music]

Drag Saved My Life

Guest: Flo Mingo

IC: I am Ify Chiwetelu.

TD: And I am Trevor Dineen, and this is Now or Never -- drag edition. And if you want to become a drag performer, there have never been so many opportunities. You can take a drag class. You can watch any of the millions of makeup tutorials on YouTube. There are even drag camps for youth. But what if you're a little bit older?

FlO MINGO: Hello, I'm Flo Mingo. I'm a Saskatchewan drag queen. And I've been doing drag since 2017 is when I, when I entered the the art of drag.

TD: How old were you in 2017 when you started?

FM: Oh, I knew you were going to try to dig down a little bit further. [TD chuckles] Well, I'm 42 now, so I guess 36.

TD: Thirty-six. Is that old to start being a drag queen?

FM: I think it's old to become a drag queen, you know, when you're doing it mid-thirties. Because a lot of times, we see a lot of young performers out there. But, you know, it's not just that I became a drag queen later in life. I came out of the closet later in life, too, right? So to come out of the closet in 2016 and then start doing drag in 2017, when I'm, you know, past my mid-thirties, you know, I don't necessarily think you see that too often.

SOUNDCLIP

HOST: After 34 years in the closet, it was time for the world to meet his true, authentic self. Not long after, the world was introduced to Flo Mingo.

[claps and cheers]

TD: Flo Mingo, as her name suggests, is a vision in pink. Reaching seven feet tall in heels, and even taller when you measure from wig to stiletto. Now, today, she's a huge part of the Regina drag community. But the journey to get where she is has been long and challenging.

FM: I grew up in a small community in Manitoba. And I knew growing up, like, I knew ever since I was young that I was a gay man. But I also knew that I couldn't live my true, authentic life. You know, just the community I was in, my upbringing, and the safety concerns. So I did what was expected of me, right? I graduated from school, went to college, married, you know, my ex-wife. Now, she's my ex-wife. I had three children, amazing children. But it really took a toll on my physical health and my mental health. I turned to food, you know, to, to comfort myself. So, you know, I was, I was having health issues. And doctors actually gave me a year to live if I didn't make drastic changes.

[sad piano]

FM: I realized the only way that I'm going to fix this is if I live my true, authentic self.

TD: What did that mean to you?

FM: You know, it was, it was freeing. The moment that I came out, it was, it was totally freeing but scary, right? It's extremely scary because, for 30-some years, I hid it. I, you know, I buried it deep down inside. And it was a very good experience. You know, my co-workers were very accepting at work. My close friends were, were very accepting. You know, they talk about the queer community being your family. And that's true because they are there for you. My ex-wife was extremely accepting of me. And my kids. And, you know, they're the biggest part of my life still. And my ex-wife and I, we have a really good relationship. We always have. Everything was going great, but my family wasn't accepting of me. And that was, you know, that's the fear of a lot of people. That's why they don't want to come out of the closet. And it came true. And I lost contact with my family because of it. And that's kind of why I started doing drag, is I want to show people that you can be whatever you want to be. You don't have to fit into society norms. You can be your true, authentic self. Stand tall, be a flamingo in a flock of pigeons and just live your true life.

TD: I love that, be a flamingo in a flock of pigeons.

FM: That's where Flo came from. I've always loved flamingos and that thing, but that's kind of how Flo was born.

[sad piano is back]

TD: What a great birth.

FM: [chuckle] It was! It was.

TD: While her ex-wife and kids were accepting and supportive, things with Flo's parents have been difficult at times, but it's something the family is working on together. How are things with, like, with your immediate family?

FM: So, it's been a journey, and there's been a lot of ups and downs, and a lot of heartache, and a lot of tears shed. But I got married in October in Las Vegas, and I'm happy to say that both of my parents were at my wedding to my husband. So, full circle.

TD: That's unbelievable!

FM: I've had a lot of parents reach out to me, and a lot of people reach out to me that maybe are coming out of the closet. And I guess one piece of advice I say is you've known this your whole life, so you've prepared for this moment of you coming out. But for your family, this is the first time that they're hearing it. And maybe their reaction wasn't what you're hoping for, but it's their very first time. They haven't had time to prepare, whereas you prepared, you know, coming out for how long. So, you know, their reaction may not be the one you wanted, but give them time.

TD: What would it mean to you if, if your parents came to a show?

FM: Okay. So I'll be, I'll be very raw and honest with you. My mom and dad are coming to Walk the Walk. It is their first time they're going to be seeing me like this. And I have a lot of anxiety, not necessarily because of, of what they'll say because they're coming to support. But there's just a lot of trauma, right, that I still maybe haven't healed from. And so, it just gives me a lot of anxiety knowing that they're there. But I also know them, like I said before, the moment the Flo puts her wig on, her lashes, she's ready to go, I won't even think about that, right? Because I have a job to do. I'm going to be, you know, hosting that show. And so, I won't even think about it that night.

TD: You know, today's show is all about the power of drag. And what power would you say being Flo Mingo has given you?

FM: I've raised over, well over, $400,000 for Lulu's Lodge. Lulu's Lodge as an LGBTQ2S+ youth home in Regina. It's the only one in Regina. You know, that's kind of what I dedicate the majority of my work to is ensuring that youth don't have to go through what I went through. I do Walk the Walk every year. It's a celebrity drag show where I, I have local celebrities, local Regina celebrities, such as the mayor of Regina, the mayor of Saskatoon, participate and actually hit the stage in full drag. So, I guess the power of Flo is I was able to build a community within our community, and bring on allies, and educate people as to who we are and what they need to do to stand up for my community.

TD: Would you, would you accept, like, a Winnipeg import in September? Like, it's just like a random host in Winnipeg coming out and, you know, doing something?

FM: You know what, Trevor? If you want to do drag, you come on down. I need more drag queens. [TD laughs] If you did drag for a night, the next day, you're not thinking that at all. You're thinking how good it feels to not be in drag. [chuckling] It's painful. You know, it's, my feet hurt, my, you know, everything hurts because I, I'm tucked. I have padding on. I have five pairs of tights on. I have a corset on. Everything on me hurts.

[disco]

TD: You know, a wise queen once said, If you can't love yourself, how in the hell are you going to love somebody else?

IC: [chuckling] Look how the tables have turned, Trevor Dineen. [TD chuckles] A few stories in, and you're the one quoting RuPaul.

TD: Oh, I know. It's just so true for Flo Mingo, who has really started spreading the love in their own community in Regina. And can I tell you, Ify, one of my favourite parts about Flo's story. When they got married to their husband, they got married at the Flamingo in Las Vegas.

IC: [chuckling] Where else?

TD: Mm-hmm. To see photos of Flo, head on over to our CBC Now or Never Facebook and Instagram pages.

[disco is back up]

Chasing Dreams In The Big City

Guest: Cheryl Trade

IC: This is Now or Never. I am Ify.

TD: And I am Trevor. And today, we're throwing on some makeup, sliding into some heels, and stepping out on stage to celebrate the wonderful world of drag and the power it can give to its performers. And for this next queen, who has spent their whole life dreaming of being under the lights of a big city stage, there's no better feeling than finally taking that step.

SOUNDCLIP

CHERYL TRADE: How are we all doing tonight?

[cheers]

CT: Welcome to the farewell show of Trade, hosted by me, Trade!

[cheers and clapping]

TD: It's Friday night in Vancouver and the crowd is making some noise.

SOUNDCLIP

CROWD: By Cheryl.

TD: They’ve come to say goodbye to a show-stopping drag queen who is leaving the city to chase her dream.

SOUNDCLIP

CT: Are we ready to celebrate. all of things Cheryl Trades?

CROWD: Yes!

CT: Well, my drag name is Cheryl Trade, and I've been going by that name now for nine years. It's just about 10 years. I started off as, in the industry, we call it a bedroom queen. So I stayed in my room and practiced a lot of wigs and makeup. And that was actually 10 years ago. Out of drag, my name is Jordan. I am from a small reserve town in northern Saskatchewan called La Ronge, Lac La Ronge Indian Band. Moved to the West Coast, I moved out to Vancouver for an acting school when I was 20, and that kind of spiked my interest in performing.

SOUNDCLIP

[“Footloose” By Kenny Loggins]

[cheers]

CT: Cheryl is a glamour queen for sure. I love beautiful hair, and beautiful gowns, and rhinestones, and sparkles. There's a lot of country influences in my performances because of my, my upbringing and what I listened to growing up. Yeah, but I'm very much a pop diva with country in there, If I can put it bluntly, my number one diva of all time is always Shania Twain.

SOUNDCLIP

[“Man! I Feel Like A Woman!” by Shania Twain]

[cheers]

CT: So tonight, I'm hosting a farewell show. I am packing up my life and moving to Los Angeles and following kind of a lifelong dream that I wanted to do since I was a teenager. The timing is just right. When we all survived lockdowns, and COVID-19, and sitting in our house watching Netflix, I told myself, whenever we get out of this thing, I'm never going to slow down again. [chuckling] I know that sounds wild, but it was just something that I've always repeated to people. I feel like L.A. suits that very well. And I made the decision kind of late last year. I was like, I'm just going to go. I've been wanting to do this my whole life. And now that I'm in my early-thirties and, like, it's just time to go and give it a shot.

TD: So Cheryl's quit her day job in Indigenous health, given up her apartment, and bet everything on her dreams, all with good reason. You see, Cheryl has won titles and made an impression on the drag scene in every place that she's ever lived. From Lac La Ronge, to Saskatoon, and Vancouver. And she shares part of her Cree heritage wherever she goes.

CT: I, so in every show that I do, whenever I'm doing a land acknowledgement, I open the show with the land acknowledgement, and I feel like it's almost my duty as an Indigenous person when I'm giving a land acknowledgement to also provide a little small teaching. So I like to teach people, no matter where I am, I like to teach people very simple Cree words. So sometimes, it's hello and goodbye. Sometimes, it's love. Or I like to teach them money because people like to tip at a drag show. So I teach them how to say money. So I'm very excited to bring the Cree country, so the Cree language and the things that I know and my humour from my community to a big, giant stage like L.A. because I don't think there are many very well-known country Cree divas in L.A. [chuckling]

[country rock]

CT: When I think of my hometown and my upbringing and me being a kid in La Ronge and even a teenager in La Ronge, it feels like a million miles away. I grew up very humble. And we do call La Ronge L.A. When you, when you live there, that's L.A. So I'm going from L.A. to L.A. I know as a kid, I didn't necessarily think I was going to be moving to California, you know, living in Los Angeles and performing on stages that some of the biggest stars in the world perform on. Like, it's, it's insane to me. But I think what I discovered at a very young age is that my aspirations and my dreams are only as big as I allow them to be. So it was very, I could dream as big as I want.

[country rock]

TD: For Cheryl, that's the power of drag. While Jordan may have started experimenting in his bedroom and Lac La Ronge, he credits Cheryl for having the courage to chase her dreams as far away as Los Angeles.

CT: The power it gave me was it really, you know, like many other folks, I struggled with confidence and body image issues, and am I good enough and comparing myself to others. It really, drag really allowed me to help not to care and not to worry. And not so, not to think so much about what other people thought about me. I, I still have body image issues like anyone. I still have confidence issues at times. But Cheryl really helped me to realize that I can do anything. As long as I, as long as I put my mind to it, no matter how tough it is, I will be able to do it. And that's kind of where this Los Angeles trip is coming from. It's going to be hard. I'm leaving a comfort zone. I don't know many people down there, but I'm just going to go. And then in three months from now, come find me again. I'm sure I'd be fine.

[banjo and clapping]

TD: I love that confidence. And why not? Look out L.A. because Cheryl's on her way and there's no stopping her from pursuing her goals.

CT: I am working on some music. I would love the chance to perform my own music and tour around, win a Grammy. [chuckling] I would just love to be recognized as an Indigenous, queer drag artists from small-town reserve in Canada, but being well-known in Los Angeles and performing around.

[theme]

TD: You know, after listening this whole episode, Ify, and hearing from everyone, it makes me so sad to know that this community is under attack. And it's under attack by people who've probably never taken the time to come and do a show, to spend time with a performer, to hear the outpouring of support and love from the crowd. Because it takes a lot of bravery and courage right now, especially to be a drag performer. And I, and I commend anyone out there that, that is, that is doing it.

[theme]

IC: Thanks to all the queens and king who are part of the show this week. Thanks as well to our CBC colleagues who are a part of this episode. Chelsea Camp, the crew at CBC Sudbury, and special thanks to Ben Shannon for the amazing illustrations of all of our guests today that you can find on our website: ww.cbc.ca/nowornever.

TD: Also, a big thank you to our team of producers, Sara Tait, Glory Omotayo, Amanda Putts, Bridget Forbes, and Andrew Friesen, who has wanted to do this episode for a long time now, and is actually here with us. Andrew

ANDREW FRIESEN: Hi, thank you for finally letting me do an episode all about drag. [IC laughs] There was no stopping me. You both know that I produced many a story about drag in my career, but I've actually been thinking a lot about the very first one that I did, which was for a live show, which is almost six years ago now.

IC: Yes, I remember it well.

AF: And that was a really special experience for me because I had the chance to help one of my friends do drag for the very first time, and debut and share their story on Now or Never.

SOUNDCLIP

TD: What is it about drag that appealed to you?

SLAYTANA: I feel like a superhero. Like, think about it this way. When a superhero has, like, a mundane life, they hide their superpowers. They have a pseudonym, an alias. But as soon as a world needs saving, they put on that costume. They reveal their powers, and they save the world.

AF: Now, since their drag debut on our show, Kevin, also known as Slaytana, became such an important part of our queer community here in Winnipeg. And I know personally that he made a difference in so many people's lives before we lost him, sadly, this past December. And so, while making this episode, I had been thinking a lot about my friend, Slaytana. And I just want to say I love you, Kevin, and I miss you.

SOUNDCLIP

[claps and cheers]

IC: This has been something, a side of you that you've repressed for a long time. How does it feel to have finally performed, revealed Slaytana to the world?

SLAYTANA: It's like coming out of the closet all over again. I feel very liberated. Feels really great to perform, especially with something that I've never done before. And I feel fiiinnne!

IC: Let's clap it up for Slaytana one more time!

[claps]

[theme]

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Now or Never: The Power of Drag Transcript (March 9)

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