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The AIH Transcript for August 30, 2022

KATIE SIMPSON: Hello. I'm Katie Simpson.

SAMIRA MMOHYEDDIN: Good evening. I'm Samira Mohyeddin, sitting in for Chris Howden. And this is As It Happens.

[Theme]

Prologue

SM: Tonight:

KS: The end of an era. Mikhail Gorbachev has died. We'll speak with Former Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney -- who worked with the Soviet leader during a pivotal moment in 20th Century history.

SM: Enough is enough. After Chrystia Freeland is harassed in Alberta, the mayor of Calgary is speaking out about the threats she's faced -- and urging changes to protect women in public life before it escalates any further.

KS: Dread ahead. An Iraqi political analyst tells us the fighting in Baghdad yesterday has brought with it a fear of what's to come, despite today's respite from the violence.

SM: Hot-button issue. After half a century, a high-school newspaper in Nebraska is no more, and student journalists say their articles on LGBTQ rights sparked the school's decision.

KS: Call and response. Get ready to ask your questions of our incoming host, Nil Koksal.

SM: And... Jaws of life. A Pennsylvania man explains how he's come to rely on a very unusual alligator to get him through tough times.

SM: As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that thinks he's destined for gator things.

Part 1: Gorbachev: Mulroney, Baghdad Violence, Emotional Support Alligator

Gorbachev: Mulroney

Guest: Brian Mulroney

SM: A man who changed the course of world history has died. To the west, Mikhail Gorbachev was a Soviet politician who accomplished the unthinkable -- he ended the Cold War and brought down the Berlin Wall. But to those in the former USSR, which he couldn't keep together -- his legacy is more complicated. Mr. Gorbachev died today. He was 92. Growing up on a farm -- under the rule of Joseph Stalin -- Mr. Gorbachev joined the Communist party and rose through its ranks. Though he was committed to the idea of the Soviet Union, he believed reform was necessary -- forging arms reduction deals with the U.S. and withdrawing from the Soviet/Afghan war. But the freedom he gave the Soviets empowered them to rise up -- ultimately leading to the union's collapse. Brian Mulroney was prime minister of Canada from 1984 to 1993, and met with Mikhail Gorbachev. We reached him in Montreal.

KS: Former Prime Minister Mulroney, can I start with your reaction to the news of the death of Mikhail Gorbachev?

BRIAN MULRONEY: Well, he's the end of a long list of great leaders of the eighties and the nineties. And he made his mark on history big time. And he will be, I think, sorely missed. At the moment, in Russia, he won't be… he is not appreciated. But history will look after that. He will… he'll be viewed as a giant of his time.

KS: When you think of someone in your own words as a giant of his time and his massive impact on history, what are the moments that are going to stand out for you when you think of his legacy?

BM: Well, the day he became the leader of the Soviet Union was where they of Chernenko's funeral, and March 9th, I think, of 1985. And I was in Moscow for the funeral, and I was invited to a meeting with Gorbachev that day. And so, I attended the meeting, and it was surprisingly long given the importance of the occasion, namely the funeral. And I'd taken up a lot of his time, surprisingly long and very he… I found that he was very pleasant, very, very gentlemanly, very knowledgeable as well, and very aggressive in formulating his positions of the Soviet Union. And I left there and went to Quebec City a few days later for my first summit in Quebec City with… with President Reagan. And I told him, I said, you know, Ron… he had not met him. He had… it was too soon for him. And he had not been at the funeral. So I said, well, Ron, we're… we're dealing now with a very different kind of guy. We have a brand new situation here. And I think it's going to be up to us, the G-7 and others, to take it… full advantage of it. This guy wants to live in peace. And so that was my association with him at the very beginning.

KS: You describe him as a different kind of guy. Tell us about him. What kind of man was he?

BM: Well, he was more urbane. He was more casual in his comments. He was friendlier than the Soviet leaders of past, all stern apparatchiks from the… from the regime -- communist regime -- who knew very little about the rest of the world and seemed less inclined to… even less inclined to learn anything about it, about us. So Gorbachev was the entire… entire different… as I say, an entirely different kettle of fish. He was a… he looked forward. He wanted good relations. He wanted the Soviet Union to be respected. And he wanted to transform it from within, to gain that respect and admiration from others. So he was a great leader with a profound sense of what could take place but also a sense of history.

KS: In 1990, Mr. Gorbachev visited you in Ottawa just before he headed to Washington to make that significant weapons announcement with the United States. What are your memories of that meeting?

BM: Well, they're very warm memories because he and I, by that time, had developed an excellent relationship, personal relationship. But the substance of it was that I told him… at the time, he was ready to go along with the idea of a united Germany, but not in NATO. And I told him quite firmly, I said that, oh, you're going down to see President Bush. And the key matter is going to be German reunification and its integration into the… into Western societies. And you're going to have to change your position because there's no way that the allies led by the United States will ever agree to a reunited Germany that is not allowed to be part of NATO. And so, we had some strong disagreements over that. But he eventually came around. He… he was aware, of course, of my very personal and private relationship with President Bush. And he knew that I was not speaking casually. That I had spoken to Bush many times about this and the other allies, and I was fully acquainted with that, of course. And so, I urged him strongly to avoid an embarrassment for himself in Washington by agreeing to the provisions of the… of the offer at the time, which was namely a united Germany within the confines of… of NATO. And that came about, and he had a very successful visit to Washington. But meanwhile, I don't think he was doing a lot to endear himself to the… to the military complex back home, extremely right-wing military complex back home in Moscow.

KS: Did he at all have a sense of himself as seeing himself as someone who was changing the course of history?

BM: That's a good question, Katie. He… he certainly wasn't in any way pretentious, personally pretentious or… or unsympathetic in the manner in which he spoke. But… but, of course, the worldwide headlines of approval and adulation could not have left him indifferent. And he was aware that the… that the changes he… beginning with perestroika that he was making in the Soviet Union were widely discussed. He was universally regarded as probably the second most important person in the world, and that could not, as I say, have left him indifferent. But in his personal conduct with me and with others, he… he conveyed a sense of some… some degree of modesty.

KS: When you take a look at what is happening on the world stage right now with the Russian invasion of Ukraine -- and we're having this conversation about the legacy of Mikhail Gorbachev -- how do you think this is going to have an impact in this moment in Russia?

BM: Well, it's going to contrast dramatically with what Gorbachev would have done. Everybody understands and knows that this was not something of which Gorbachev approved. He would never have done it. But he was in the process of putting the Soviet Union forward as a much more acceptable interlocutor, some country deserving of some achievement and respect. And it's all been completely vitiated by what Putin has done in invading a friendly ally and a neighbour. This ran counter to everything that Gorbachev stood for. But… but the manner in which he wanted his country to be perceived. He wanted to put an end to these kinds of things. And he had been very successful himself. But he met internal resistance, as you know. He was… they tried to overthrow him in a coup in the summer of 1991, I guess it was. And he had lots of resistance. Then Yeltsin came along and became elected president of Russia. And it left, ultimately, Gorbachev with no alternative but to resign on New Year's Eve. And I remember I had a conversation with him that night, and one of the last letters that he sent from the Kremlin prior to his resignation was… was to me.

KS: As… I want to ask you about that… that letter.

BM: Well, it was just a letter of goodbye, how much he had enjoyed serving with me, and he appreciated how much Canada had done and tried to do for him and the Soviet Union. And he very reluctantly was leaving the office and saying goodbye to me as a friend. And we subsequently, after his retirement, he was on the speaking tour, as you know, as was I a few years later. And we used to meet up around the world and have dinner and talk about old… old days and old friends.

KS: As the world now is remembering Mr. Gorbachev, what kind of conversations do you hope people have as they talk about his memory and his legacy?

BM: Well within Russia, as you know, he is… he has been denigrated so often by the current government that he is… and many of them view him as responsible for the disintegration of the Soviet Union. So he is not favourably remembered there at the moment. But that… that will change. And the… the Russian impression of him will eventually rejoin that of the rest of the world as Mikhail Gorbachev having been a great leader. And a very good man, a visionary. And a man who helped change the world. Because you'll remember all during his time -- and his predecessors' -- we were engaged in the Cold War. And eventually, that came… the end of the Cold War came about without anybody firing a shot. And that is an historic accomplishment for Gorbachev…. Mr. Gorbachev, President Gorbachev, President Reagan and the other principals who were there.

KS: Mr. Mulroney, we'll leave the conversation there. Thank you very much for your time.

BM: Thank you, Katie.

SM: Brian Mulroney is the former prime minister of Canada. He was in Montreal.

[sombre guitar]

Baghdad Violence

Guest: Sajad Jiyad

SM: Tonight, as we go to air, a tentative calm appears to have returned to Baghdad. But that calm follows an outburst of violence that left dozens dead. It began on Monday after the influential cleric Muqtada al-Sadr announced that he would be stepping back from politics. Soon his followers were trading gunfire with another militia and Iraqi security forces inside the Green Zone, which houses the country's government and most foreign embassies. Sajad Jiyad is a political analyst and a fellow with the New York-based think tank The Century Foundation. We reached him in Baghdad.

KS: Mr. Jiyad, what's the mood in Baghdad tonight?

SAJAD JIYAD: Well, certainly much better than it was yesterday. Yesterday it was non-stop gunfire, explosions. People were very concerned about how much further this violence could escalate. Today, it is a feeling of concern about the future in the longer term. Is this what the modern Iraq will end up looking like? Two powerful parties and rival militias going against each other in the middle of Baghdad, using heavy weapons and the government standing by, just watching without having a real role in this. And a lot of disappointment that, unfortunately, after all these years since we got rid of the Saddam regime, we ended up in a situation where we don't really have a regime of any sorts. So the average citizen is deeply concerned about how much more time we need until we have a proper Iraq, a functioning democracy and something that the citizens can be proud of. Right now, we are deeply embarrassed and deeply concerned about our future.

KS: I recognize that this is the start or a continuation of the big-picture conversations that need to happen. But how does it compare today compared to what you witnessed last night?

SJ: As I said yesterday, it was… you know, it was… sounded like a full battle taking place. With drones, overhead explosions, we saw videos on social media of our pigs and mortars, heavy calibre machine gunfire. You even had, you know, the long-range mortars and missile batteries being prepared. And we were concerned that this was going to escalate throughout the country and there would be sort of no end to this in the short term. We had a curfew. People could not leave their homes. All the stores were closed. And we didn't know when things would go back to normal. Right now, things are starting to come back to normal. Roads are reopened. Stores are starting to reopen. But there is a sense of apprehension that things could go wrong at any moment in time. And this feeling of dread hangs over every Iraqi because we know the propensity for violence is quite high. And these parties have weapons, and they're willing to use them. So the average Iraqi is also concerned about what's just around the corner.

KS: This appears to have begun with the announcement of Muqtada al-Sadr that he was leaving politics. For those who are listening to this, who might not have been following as closely as those who are living this experience right now. Can you tell us who he is and why this announcement is considered so provocative?

SJ: So Muqtada al-Sadr is a cleric, a religious cleric, but he's also a politician and a leader of right now, what is the largest party… or what was the largest party in parliament. His party won the most number of seats in the last elections. He tried to form a government, but he was blocked by his opponents from the other Shia Islamist parties and failed to form a government. And became sort of very despondent, decided to pull his employees out of parliament, have them resign, and launched protests against the rest of the political powers, trying to force them to some sort of concession. They refused and sort of went about their business trying to form a government without him. And this is why, you know, he grew more frustrated, and it led to him announcing that he's going to sort of resign politics completely. His followers decided to sort of step up their action, invaded the Green Zone, the president… the Republican Palace, which is the government palace today where cabinet meets. And this led to a standoff with security guards from other installations in the area. And then, an escalation of the violence between al-Sadr supporters and other elements of parties and security guards inside the Green Zone and bloodshed over the last 24 hours.

KS: What's it like to exist with that sense of dread and that sense of anxiety right now that you're experiencing?

SJ: [deep sigh] I mean, it's… it's awful. I'm lucky to be… lucky to be sort of quite privileged compared to everybody else. Others, you know, who struggle with services -- who were impacted by the violence directly, for example -- will have a lot of trauma over the years. And so, to see that our parties, who are supposed to be better than the previous regime, essentially using the same tactics, intimidation, brutality, violence is hugely despondent. It makes you really sort of want to leave the country in a way because you feel there's no future here. And a lot of people, the millions of young who are unemployed, can see no prospects. And it's this hopelessness -- this despair -- that is very dangerous.

KS: Is that your deep concern right now? That… that… that sense of helplessness, that sense that there are no prospects right now, is that your concern that that could fuel more protests that could eventually lead to violence?

SJ: Exactly that. And our country is… is a wealthy one. We make billions of dollars every month in oil sales. And yet, that doesn't translate to anything for the average individual. We have only 12 hours of electricity per day. A lot of people put all their income on paying for a generator or paying for medical bills. And yet, we read in the news every day that, you know, Iraq is exporting this much oil. The government has this much wealth. All these parties have benefited huge amounts from corruption. But the average citizen does not feel this wealth at all. And it's only a matter of time before that anger spurs them to do something and take matters into their own hands.

KS: Mr. Jiyad, thank you for your time today.

SJ: My pleasure.

SM: Sajad Jiyad is a fellow with the New York-based think tank The Century Foundation. We reached him in Baghdad.

[ambient]

Emotional Support Alligator

Guest: Joe Henney

SM: Emotional support animals can provide tremendous comfort for a variety of human ills. Most often, the source of that comfort is rooted in the animal's fuzzy, fluffy fur, the deep feelings of empathy it conveys and the sense that it will be very unlikely to bite you. Those are also three reasons why alligators are not often employed as emotional support animals. But Wallygator is no ordinary gator. He provides emotional support for Joe Henney of Johnstown, Pennsylvania -- which is where we reached them both.

KS: Joe, as we have this conversation, tell me, where is Wallygator right now?

JOE HENNEY: Sitting here beside me in his pond, chilling.

KS: How is he today?

JH: Oh, he's great. Yeah, he's been good today. Been a good boy all day.

KS: How long has Wallygator been living with you?

JH: Six years. I'm a reptile rescue. And I have friends in Florida that rescue reptiles. And they actually rescued quite a few… they call them yearlings. They're like 18-month-old, small gators from Disney, from the lagoon. And my buddy brought Wally up and gave him to me September 9th, six years ago. And he's been with me ever since.

KS: And so, what makes Wallygator so special?

JH: The first most special thing with him is he does not like anyone. I've been handling gators for over 30 years. I've never seen a gator that will not bite. Never.

KS: How did you first realize that Wally was different? That he wasn't a biter?

JH: Well, actually, I got the snot scared out of me one day. We were riding in the van… because he's never been in a cage, so he rides free in my van and my truck. And he sits between my seats. So I reached back to pet him while he was sitting there with his mouth open. And I reached back to pet him, and I stuck my hand all the way back into the back of his throat. And I pulled out real fast like [gasps]. Wait a minute, he didn't bite me. At that time, I should have been bit right there. So I started testing him then. So I did other things that, you know, just move your hand around the front of an alligator's face; their instinct is to grab it right away. If you resist, they crunch down and try to death roll. If you… anything, anything at all, touches any alligator's mouth, it's an automatic snap shut -- except for Wally. So after working with him for six or eight months, I realized, you know, even when I made him open up his mouth, I was able to reach in. He had loose teeth. I'd reach up and pull the loose tooth out. And I'd brush his teeth, and he gave me no trouble.

KS: What do you use to brush an alligator's teeth?

JH: A toothbrush.

KS: And straight-up toothpaste?

JH: No, I use baking soda in his mouth.

KS: Fair enough. So you realized that Wally was different. That Wally was not aggressive and going to do anything to harm you. How did he go from pet to emotional support animal?

KS: What happened was five years ago, I lost three family members and four lifelong friends in two weeks. And I dramatically -- literally -- shut down. And I was… I built furniture, and I needed to go to my shop to work, and I didn't even do that. And I went to the doctor and she wanted to give me anti-depression medicine. Well, I don't take that stuff. I don't like the way it makes me feel. I don't like medication to begin with. I only like Tylenol. But after a month of just laying around the couch and stuff, Wally would do silly things like pop his head out underneath a blanket and grunt at me or hiss at me. And I thought, what are you doing? You act like a dog. So I kind of just blew it off and ignored it. Then, he grabbed a hold of my blanket and pulled it off. Well, I've never seen an alligator grab anything and pull it, except for their food. He grabbed my pillow and pulled it out from underneath my head, and sat there and lay on it, and look up at me like, ha-ha, I got your pillow. When I was laying on the couch, and I'd fall asleep, I'd wake up. He'd be laying up… I'm glad he was smaller then, but he'd be laying on me. He had his head laying on top of the side of my head. And like an hour or so later, I'd wake up, I'd have a whole alligator against my face. It's like, what is going on here? Well, when I went back for a one-month evaluation from the doctor, she said, what are you doing, Joe? You're really doing good. And I said, it's that crazy alligator of mine. And she knew about all my reptiles and stuff. She says, okay, well, keep up the good work. You're doing great. So when I went back for my second-month evaluation, I was back to cracking jokes and being my… almost my normal self. And she said, Joe, why don't you register him as your emotional support alligator? I said, Doc, did you lose your marbles? They're the most feared animal in the world. Nobody's going to register an alligator. Well, she wrote up the letter, signed it and at that point, he became my legal emotional support alligator. He is licenced to me. No one else. And… but dogs and cats get registered. That's it. Once they're registered, people don't pay no attention to it no more in the U.S.A. Wally, being he's an alligator, he has to be evaluated every year. And I like that. I actually test Wally pretty much every day to make sure, you know, he's still the same; nothing's changing. I know how wild animals are. I've been around wild animals all of my life. He just hugs and gives people kisses and makes people smile. He works with a lot of special needs people. He senses people's emotions. And that… we've never seen that in any reptile in all of history.

KS: Tell me about some of the things that, you know, you and Wally do for fun?

JH: Well, we go swimming in the creek. We put… I got a special harness I put on him with a small steel cable because I can't have him in open waterways. So he stays constantly attached to me. So we do a lot of swimming. We like going to the Capital City Mall. We like going, you know, visiting different stores and restaurants that actually they invite us. We do not go anywhere we are not welcome. No, we watch TV together. We snuggle a lot.

KS: Joe, I understand that at the moment you are battling cancer right now, and Wally is helping you through it.

JH: Yes, it was probably a week before, but Wally was acting really strange around me. He kept coming closer and, you know, doing more things than normal. Like, when we go to bed and sleep, he he'll lay his head on me or his one arm on me. Just really abnormal things that he hasn't done for a while. Then, like a week later, I found I had prostate cancer. And it was a bad situation because the cancer cell had opened and spread cells throughout my body. And they can't track them. They call me the one per cent where they can't track things.

KS: Can you imagine your life without Wally?

JH: [beginning to cry] I don't want to. Don't even want to think about it. There's so many times that I just get down in the dumps because I live by myself, and I'm an overthinker, and I get all wound up and think about things that I shouldn't. And he gets my attention… gets it off my mind. I'd go nuts without him, [chuckle] literally.

KS: What do you want the world to know about Wally?

JH: What I want the world to know about Wally is Wally works hard out here every day, putting smiles on people's faces. He raises money, and we use that money to feed needy families. So my thing is, do like Wally does, stop beating him up with all the bad talk and stuff until you get to know him. Help people, make the world a bit more pleasant to be around than what it is today.

KS: Joe, I wish you the best of luck. I hope you stay well. And I'm so glad that Wally is here for you.

JH: Me too. Me too. It's been quite an adventure for six years.

KS: Well, I hope he gives you lots of snuggles, and you have a good sleep tonight. Thanks, Joe.

JH: Thank you.

SM: Joe Henney, is the owner of emotional support animal, Wallygator. He joined us from Johnstown, Pennsylvania.

[uke!!!]

Part 2: Freeland: Calgary Mayor, Nebraska Student Paper

Freeland: Calgary Mayor

Guest: Jyoti Gondek

SM: The video of Chrystia Freeland being harassed by a large, angry man in Grande Prairie, Alberta, is unsettling. He walks towards the deputy prime minister as she enters an elevator. He's shouting -- using the f-word, the b-word, calling her a "traitor" and telling her to get out of the province. The RCMP are now investigating the incident. If you are a woman in public life, watching that scene unfold isn't just unsettling. It may also be disturbingly familiar. Jyoti Gondek is the mayor of Calgary -- and that's where we reached her.

KS: Mayor Gondek, you said you needed a few days to sit with your thoughts after seeing the video. What have you been feeling in that time?

JYOTI GONDEK: You know, Katie, the thing is, I've been sitting with my thoughts for a number of years. One of the incidents I described happened in 2017. And it's just one of those situations where you take the things that happen, and you put them away, tuck them into a box, put them aside so you can get on with your life. But seeing what happened to the deputy prime minister just sort of broke something. And I took a couple of days to think about whether or not I wanted to be public with my own experiences so that I could help some other folks? And took a couple of days to get there. And then I did my post. And it's not supposed to be about me. It's using my platform to amplify other voices that may be unheard. I think it's time we talk about the reality that we're facing and what people who are trying to instil fear are going to do to us if we don't address this.

KS: You say something broke here, and you needed a couple of days to think about it and process what you've been feeling. When you start thinking about your own experiences, I am certain -- given what I've read about your experiences on Twitter -- that there are… there are too many to sort of categorize and count and really keep track of. Is there one moment -- one experience -- that you really drew right back to when you saw that video that took you right back there?

JG: Yeah, I would say the incident from 2017 where I was about to go into a debate, and a man loomed over me and said, I'm the one that called you to tell you I know where you live, and I'll make sure you never win this election. And then he felt it was okay to sit and glare at me throughout the entire debate to try to unnerve me. So when I say you take incidents like that and you tuck them away to keep going, that was a prime example. I don't think anyone knew what had happened because I had to keep it together. So we do that, we keep it together, we hold it together so we can do our jobs. But it's getting to be pretty extreme, and I'm very worried this will escalate even more. So it's time to talk about what's happening.

KS: Can you describe… in wanting to talk about what's happening, can you describe what it's like getting up every day, having to do your very public job, knowing that there's this looming threat out there?

JG: So I get up every day and make sure I look outside my windows before I turn off the alarm system. Then I open the front door to see if anyone's left anything for me. And I just do a little cruise around the house to make sure everything's okay -- every day. I make sure the alarm system is working every day. When we have outages like the Rogers outage that affected the entire nation, my alarm system was down. That's incredibly unnerving. So my daily routine is not like everybody else's. It's a little bit different. But it is what it is. And you move on with the things you have to do with a heightened awareness of what might be happening around you.

KS: What's it like having that anxiety weigh on you?

JG: You can't have the anxiety. [chuckle] You have to tuck the anxiety away. Being a public official and being a journalist right now means that you have to put your feelings aside. You can't live in fear. You just live with the fear. And you are very aware of your situation no matter what it is. And you just keep going. And I hate to say that you numb yourself to it, but you have to or you never leave the house.

KS: If a young woman came to you today asking you for career advice, would you recommend going into public political life?

JG: I would ensure that that young woman really knew what it is that she wanted to accomplish by being in public life. If the goal is just to be somebody, I would suggest that maybe find some other way to be somebody. If you want to do something, and you want to bring about some specific policy or legislative change that you can only do by running, I would encourage her to run. And I would give her my promise that I'll spend my next three years while I have this term in office fighting to make this safer.

KS: Do you realistically think that there is anything that can be done to make this environment safer right now?

JG: I think there's a couple of things that can be done. I mean, first and foremost, it seems to me that legislation and prosecution standards are based on how did the victims feel? Was there a sense of fear or intimidation? What I would much prefer is action-based legislation that says you can not protest in front of an elected person's home. You cannot yell threatening things in a public place against, frankly, anybody but a public official. The second thing I think that needs to be done is our investigative teams, federally and provincially, need to understand who the hate groups are, how they function, and how they're managing to recruit an increasing number of people and put an end to these things.

KS: You say, you know, that you're worried about escalation. What are you afraid is going to happen in Canada?

JG: I'm just waiting for someone to get physically assaulted and be seriously injured, or someone dies. That's what I'm worried about.

KS: And if things continue to go on unchecked, is that your sort of prediction for where this building anger is going to result?

JG: That's absolutely my prediction. I mean, you know, we watched the way the threatening individual was behaving. And had the deputy prime minister reacted in a different manner, perhaps things would have escalated. And when I watch the video -- which I had to turn off the first time around because I didn't know what to expect -- when I watched her walk into that elevator, she puts a smile on her face. Her team converges around her. Everyone tries to have a smile on their face. That's what you're taught to do to de-escalate the situation. Bring down the temperature by smiling, simply ignore the person, don't respond, don't react. So every gut instinct that you have to fight back, you're told to suppress it. So how long are we going to suppress that these things are happening? We need to confront them.

KS: What is it that keeps you going? You know, you can't let the fear get in the way. As you've said, you can't let the fear get in the way of your daily functioning. So what is it that keeps you going in this role?

JG: This city and its people are too important to me to give up. The things we need to accomplish here are right before us. You know, the ability to draw and attract brilliant people and have them come here and feel a sense of belonging. Our ability to revitalize our economy. But I want people to feel that they should be here. So I'm not going to give up on that. It's too important.

KS: Mayor Gondek, thank you for your time today.

JG: Thank you very much for shining a spotlight on this, Katie.

SM: Jyoti Gondek is the mayor of Calgary.

[calypso]

LR: Discontinued Foods

SM: Thunder Crunch jalapeno potato chips. Morton's frozen donuts and honey buns. Mint-flavoured, toffee-filled Pep Chew chocolate bars. These foods all have one thing in common: You can't get 'em anymore, and our listeners, they miss them.

KS: On last night's show, Jewish food historian Kat Romanow told us about her own heartbreak, after Liberté discontinued its cream cheese -- a favourite on Montreal bagels.

SM: And that stirred up a whole lot of nostalgia for foods you loved and can't seem to find anymore. Many of you called and emailed with stories of heartbreak. Kate MacRae emailed us about a President's Choice pickle from the late 80s. She says it was a "Nifty octogonal jar and lots of whole spices including a stick of cinnamon. Beyond crunchy -- almost brittle! Best pickle I've ever eaten."

KS: In Ottawa, Patti Davis wrote about the meals she'd make while camping with her siblings, which included a specific canned pasta. She writes: "If I could have a birthday wish for tomorrow ... I would love a can of that Franco American Macaroni and Cheese with a glass of Chardonnay."

SM: [laughing] That sounds like a perfect birthday wine pairing. Talkback also got the scoop.

[sc]

[I’ve missed the warm beep of the Talkback machine]

KEITH FREEMAN: Keith Freeman Vancouver. From Halifax originally. I'll tell you what I miss. And it's Lunenburg Pudding from the town where the Bluenose is well known and the pudding is famous. It's a crazy mix of all kinds of different meats mixed up, and you’d cut it in little chunks and fry it on each side. And unfortunately, no longer available. The gentleman, Victor Greek, who originally made it passed it onto his son and then another gentleman took over and they unfortunately closed during COVID. So that's one thing that is… I certainly miss. Hello.

[The dulcet beep of the Talkback machine]

MONTÈ GAGNER: It’s Monté Gagner calling from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. And I have a memory from my childhood, and I have never been able to find out what the actual name of these things was. Because I call them “Munchies and Crunchies”. And it was a beautiful bag of deep-fried pasta, and they were in varying shapes. There was bow tie, tubes and they were covered in this kind of garlicky, parmesan, salty powder, which I used to lift off the pasta shapes and then eat them like chips. I've tried to find them since, and I would love to know if anyone else remembers these or if anyone knows what they were actually called. I would be thrilled to taste one again. They were the best snack.

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SM: Hmm. Do you know the real name of Ms. Gagner's pasta chips? Let us know by calling Talkback at: 416-205-5687. Send us an email at aih@cbc.ca or visit the contact page on our website -- at: cbc.ca/aih.

[chillhop]

Nebraska Student Paper

Guest: Marcus Pennell

SM: Students returning to classes at Northwest High School in Grand Island, Nebraska, won't be able to volunteer for the school newspaper. And kids who signed up for journalism classes this fall won't get that opportunity either. The school paper, known as The Viking Saga, is no more. It was abruptly shut down after its final issue this spring. School officials say it was an "administrative" decision -- but student journalists believe the shut-down came because they had included three stories about LGBTQ issues in their last edition. Marcus Pennell wrote one of those articles before he graduated. We reached him in Omaha, where he now attends the University of Nebraska.

KS: Marcus, what reasons did school officials give you for shutting down the school's newspaper and journalism classes?

MARCUS PENNELL: We were officially told it was an administrative decision, and that was the only real, real official answer we got. But if you read some of the articles available, the vice president of the school board definitely said, if taxpayers read our Pride issue, they would think, holy cow, what's going on at that school?! So you can tell there were definitely some other motives there other than it just being, quote, an administrative decision. So, yeah.

KS: I was going to say, do you… when they say administrative decision, whatever that means, do you believe that that's the reason?

MP: I mean, they definitely made the decision -- like the team of administration. But there definitely doesn't seem to be a very clear, good reason as to why they made that administrative decision.

KS: What do you think was behind this? What do you really think was going on here?

MP: I definitely think they wanted to silence some of the voices of their LGBT students. And I think it was really bothering them that, you know, we were being allowed to publish what they called LGBT content under the name of the school Northwest.

KS: You wrote an editorial for what ended up being the final issue of the newspaper. What did you want people who read it to take away from it?

MP: Definitely that, you know, LGBTQ+ students belong at school, and they're just… you know, they're just like every other student and shouldn't be discriminated against in this way or in any way at all. So, that… that was what I hoped would come from it. [chuckling]

KS: And so you think it's… it's something in the content here in the editorial that really upset the administrators? Is that sort of what started this?

MP: Yeah, we had run into an issue previously in April when they said we weren’t allowed to use our preferred names or pronouns anymore. They said, according to district policy 6391, we would no longer be allowed to use our names or pronouns. And this policy is, like… it's the controversial issues policy. And so basically, they were saying, like, that we were being too controversial just by using our names. And we were also told that if we didn't follow this policy, any consequence would fall onto our sponsor. So we didn't want that to happen, of course. That's all. [chuckling]

KS: Now, Marcus, you are a trans man. When you learned that the school board was not going to allow people to publish under their… their preferred pronouns -- their names -- what was your reaction? How did you feel?

MP: Of course I was… I was devastated. You know, I had faced some issues with my peers, but coming from the adults at my school, that was a totally different ballgame, you know? Plus, of course, if the teachers if… if the adults at my school can make fun, you know, they were setting that bad example. [chuckle]

KS: And so what was it like to live through that?

MP: Um, it was definitely a rough four years. [chuckling] I'm very glad to be out. But, you know, like, it definitely taught me a lot about… it definitely made me become resilient really early. And so that's good. Although I couldn't find, like, an… it was hard to find a community. When I did find that community, it was obviously so welcoming and good, so that was good.

KS: So, is there anything being done right now to sort of fight back and get this school newspaper up and running again?

MP: Um, currently, the ACLU is really making efforts towards, yeah, getting it back. They just published a letter of demands. And they're expecting a district response by September 12th.

KS: Are you hopeful the paper will be back up and running again?

MP: Yeah, I definitely hope so. I mean, that's… that's all I wanted to come out of any of this. So, Mm-hmm. I'm not sure, though, if they will, you know? [laughing]

KS: Tell me a little bit about the paper and how… how important it is to students.

MP: Definitely. Journalism provides a great opportunity for any student, whether they're gay, straight, trans or cis or not. Like, of course, having a voice as a student is… is important. And definitely, the paper also helps, like, inform other students about things that are going on in the world, you know? Most high schoolers aren't very interested in, like, what's going on in the news on TV. But, you know, they'll read a school paper. So by shutting the programme down, they're definitely denying a lot of students a great opportunity.

KS: You've graduated. You've moved on. But, you know, there's probably very likely there are kids at Northwest High School this fall who will face some of the challenges that you faced as a student there. You know, what do you want to say to those kids at Northwest this fall?

MP: Um, definitely. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that they have to go through all that, and they shouldn't have to, you know? Everyone should be allowed…. everyone should feel safe coming to school and welcome at their school. And definitely, I would also say that it does get better. And even though it might not seem like, you know, there's ever going to be a place that will accept you, there will be.

KS: Over the past couple of years in the United States, hundreds of bills have been presented to the state level when it comes to targeting trans rights. You know, and we've… we've seen, you know, debates at school boards, and we've seen so much tension around this issue. As a young trans man living in America in this political climate right now, what's that like?

MP: It's… it's definitely scary, of course, you know? But I think any… any trans person or any person who's a minority of any way will tell you that even though these laws are being passed, or trying to get passed, we're going to keep on living, and we're going to keep being ourselves. And that's okay.

KS: Any message for the school board?

MP: [laughing] You know, like, I don't know what I could say that's really pleasant? But probably… every student deserves to come to school where they feel safe, whether they're gay, straight, trans, cis, Black, white, I mean, any… you know? Of course.

KS: Marcus, thank you for your time today.

MP: Yeah, of course. Thank you so much. Thank you for covering this story. I'm so glad it's bringing some change, hopefully.

SM: Marcus Pennell wrote for Northwest High School's currently defunct newspaper, The Viking Saga, before graduating this spring. We reached him in Omaha, Nebraska. School administrators did not reply to our request for comment.

[post rock]

Questions For Nil

SM: You already know she's a fan of Lizzo, Axe Body Spray, and, of course, As It Happens. Browse her resume and it's easy to see she has serious journalistic chops. Chances are you've already heard her on World Report or seen her do a live hit from some far-away corner of the world. But maybe you're still wondering -- who is Nil Köksal? It's been a busy summer. So we thought we'd jog your memory and remind you that in just a few days time -- starting Labour Day Monday -- our new co-host, Nil Köksal, will be taking the reins and officially stepping into her role, alongside Chris Howden, for a fresh new season of As It Happens. You might recall that back in July, when we first shared the big news, Chris spoke to Nil about what it felt like to land the gig.

[sc]

NIL KÖKSAL: I didn't even try to play it cool. [CH chuckles] Like, head in hands, a little bit of crying.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Yeah.

NK: I just felt the moment.

CH: Is there anything that you want to say to our audience now before you start talking to them on a regular basis?

NK: Thank you for loving our show so much. And our team and I love you already. They've been so great. Even the times I've… I’ve guest hosted… at least the ones they've showed me. [chuckling] I don't know if they've been bad, but even since the news came out, just lovely comments and lovely tweets. And, hopefully, we keep that going. We care --

CH: Well, that does sound like our audience.

NK: Yeah, we really care about what we do. And they care about the programs. I knew this at World Report as well. They care so much. And I want them to know that we care a lot as well. So thank… I'm so excited to be on this ride with all of you.

[/sc]

SM: As you just heard, Nil can't wait to start this new chapter of As It Happens. Neither can we. And in advance of Nil's first day on the job, she wants to hear from you and give you a chance to get to know her a bit better. Send us your questions for our new host and we'll select a handful and put them to Nil live on air. Like the stories we bring you each night -- they can be about serious journalism… or something seriously silly. Bonus points if you call Talkback at: 416-205-5687. We always love to hear your voice. But you can also send your questions to our email address: aih@cbc.ca. Or find us on Twitter @cbcasithappens.

[chillhop]

Yellowknife Black Bear

SM: Waking up in the middle of the night to rustling and rummaging in the other room can be alarming. I mean, you first thought be… you know, there’s a possible intruder. And that was exactly the

situation one Yellowknife couple found themselves in. But when Tracey MacLean and Emma Smith went to go see what was behind their rude awakening... they found there was indeed an intruder trying to push into their home, only it was a large black bear.

[sc]

EMMA SMITH: I opened the door more than it was already open. And I… I heard this noise. And I go, hey. And then I go, hey. And it's continuing to happen. And I kind of saw this dark shape. And very quickly I turned on the lights, so I was kind of blinded. And I go, is that an animal?

TRACY MACLEAN: And by that time, I was… like, my level of awareness was coming to. And she was getting out of the bath… the bedroom, and… and I had to put some clothes on. I thought there was an intruder. And I'm thinking, I have nothing to protect us. There's no bat around. Nothing. And then, by the time she's asking, is that an animal? I lock eyes with this bear inside of my house right by the window, and its head was huge. And I was like, It's a bear. And I just… I don't know what I was thinking, but I booked it to the balcony door just to have another peek. In all that time, I'm thinking, my… our only exit… if it… if it gets its two back legs in here, we are out of this apartment. And I had my phone, I was like, okay, I'll call 9-1-1. And it happened… it happened in seconds. Like… and even just, like, I can't believe it happened still. I still chills thinking about it. And… and Emma ran back to get her glasses to the bedroom. That would have blocked her if that bear had come in.

ES: I know it's funny, you know, like the way you think when something like this is happening. And she said it's a bea! And then, you know, I'm… I'm I can't see really well. And I could see it and it was in our place, and it was with his feet on the ground, on the wind… outside the window. And it was in. And it had, you know… it ripped our curtain down. It had broken the curtain rod. It was stepping on my houseplants. Rude! [all laughing]

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SM: That was Tracey MacLean and Emma Smith from Yellowknife, speaking with host Loren McGinnis on CBC North's Trailbreaker.

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August 30, 2022

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