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The AIH Transcript for May 27th, 2022

DAVID GRAY: Hello, I'm David Gray.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight

DG: Voice of experience. The former principal of Columbine High School tells us he's doing what he can to help teachers and staff in Uvalde cope with a kind of devastation that's all too familiar.

CH: Unready and waiting. An FBI agent-turned-Texas teacher tells us it wasn't just wrong for police to wait 45 minutes to engage the gunman who killed 19 students and two teachers at Robb Elementary School. It might have been criminal.

DG: Breaking with convention. In the aftermath of Uvalde, thousands are protesting the NRA's annual convention in Texas. And our guest says it's time Americans turned their anger into action.

CH: Ahead by several centuries. A researcher in Chile tells us a local cypress is likely the world's oldest tree, possibly by 600 years -- and that his family's own history with the tree has deep roots.

DG: It's new trick is being an old dog. A 22-year-old toy fox terrier named Pebbles is named world's oldest dog after her owner saw media coverage of the dog previously considered the oldest.

CH: And… so much for making sweet, sweet love. An entomologist says human activity has influenced how cockroaches mate, by reducing their taste for sugar. And he's been busy figuring out how they get busy.

CH: As It Happens, the Friday edition. When this radio gets that feeling, we want insectstual healing.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Texas Shooting: Columbine Principal, Texas Police Response, Cockroach Pesticide Mating

Texas Shooting: Columbine Principal

Guest: Frank Deangelis

CH: Most people can't imagine what the surviving staff and students at Robb Elementary school in Uvalde, Texas, are going through right now. But Frank Deangelis has a pretty good idea. Mr. Deangelis was the principal of Columbine High School in Colorado 1999 when two gunmen murdered 12 students and one teacher. He has now dedicated his life to helping schools that have gone through their own mass shootings. And unfortunately, that has made him a busy man. We reached Frank Deangelis in Arvada, Colorado.

DG: Frank, when the school shooting happened, did it take you back to the tragedy you experienced at Columbine High School?

FRANK DEANGELIS: Yes, most definitely. Whenever on my phone, I start getting texts coming across saying thinking about you. If you need anything, let me know. You're in my thoughts and prayers. And usually, within five minutes, I start getting calls from the media, and I know exactly what's going on. And so, when that happened on the 24th, it took me right back to what I experienced, you know, 23 years ago.

DG: I understand you've reached out to the principal and teachers at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde. What do you say to a principal who's just gone through something like this?

FD: You know, I made a comment 23-plus years ago. I said I just joined a club in which no one wants to be a member. And when I do reach out, whether it was to Sandy Hook or Parkland or other places where school shootings have occurred. So many times, what I do is just kind of break it down saying, you know, this is not just one phone call. I'm going to be here for the entire time. And what this first few weeks is going to be is going to be much different than, you know, a month from now. And what I would tell them is, let's talk about what it's going to be like when you return to school in the fall. You know, questions like that… that arise because right now, just overwhelmed. They're in the process of grieving, you know, in the process of denial. But next up comes the different services. I can remember having to attend 13 memorial services, and each one just tears at the heart. And so they're dealing with that right now. And the last thing on their mind is what it's going to feel like returning to school. You have people that may be angry. You have people that are saying we need to continue to talk, but you're going to have others say, the more I talk about it, the more upset I get. The sooner I get back to what it was prior to is going to help me. And you'll have some people in between.

DG: How many times have you had to make that same first phone call since Columbine?

FD: Oh geez. I am thinking… oh, well over 20 times. It goes back. I mean, there was a shooting right after Columbine at Santee High School in Santana, California. You know, I've been to Sandy Hook, up in Parkland, Virginia Tech. I've been to Chardon.

DG: I don't imagine making that first call ever gets any easier?

FD: No, it doesn't. And… but they are grateful. And, you know, and one of the first things that I tell each principal that I talk to is something that was so important to me, is right after Columbine happened, within about 24 hours, I received a phone call from a doctor, a chiropractor my mom worked for, and he was a Vietnam veteran. And he said, Frank, you know, I never got the help I needed. I felt I could do it on my own. And he said I'm paying for it professionally and paying for it personally. He said I am begging you to get help because right now, you are being pulled in so many different directions. You know, your students, your staff, the community, you're being asked to do so much. But if you don't help yourself, you're not going to be able to help others.

DG: You're now part of a grim fraternity of principals that have experienced school shootings. What does it tell you that there are now dozens of members of your group? That these shootings seem to never stop?

FD: Yeah, it's… it's a level of frustration that I couldn't help but thinking Parkland and how the students from Parkland stood up and said, as adults, you've let us down. We've got to make changes. And, you know, right now, the rhetoric, everybody's talking about changes that need to be made, changes need to be made. And we had these discussions, you know, over four years ago after Parkland. But what has been done? And I think that's what worries me. Right now, everyone is on top of this thing, saying we've got to do this, do this. But we seem to be doing the same thing over and over again. And we really need to sit down and say, what can we do to stop these deaths from occurring? Because one more is one too many.

DG: Let's talk about some of that rhetoric. In the last 48 hours, we've heard from some Republican lawmakers that schools need to be hardened in the U.S. That as Ted Cruz said, there should be one open door with an armed person guarding it. What's your reaction to that?

FD: Well, the thing that I realized, and I know there are school districts that have metal detectors and things of that nature, but if someone wants to commit an act, they're going to find a way. And if you and I were… if we had some devious plot planned and I said to you, open the door for me at 11:20 unless if you have armed guards at every door, that's not going to happen. And in a key for me is after Columbine happened, we were probably the safest school in the world. We had more security. But I had a student come up to me and say, Mr. D, we know you love us. You want to keep us safe. But this is no longer like a school. It's almost like a prison. And we are more anxious now because we see all of these guards. We need to… we need to make the school safe. But at the same time, we need to make sure that it is a welcoming, inclusive environment.

DG: There are also, in the United States, renewed calls for teachers to be armed. As a former principal, can you imagine that?

FD: No. And let me share my story on that. On April 20, 1999, I came out of my office, and I encountered the gunman. Now people said, if you would have been armed, just think you could have stopped it. Now, I can be trained in gun safety. I can be trained and adept at firing the weapon. The thing that I don't know if I could do is a mental state, the mindset. Because as educators, we… it's all about the kids. And I think back. If I would have been armed that day, I would have saw the gunman coming towards me. And I don't know if I would have had the mindset that here is a killer. I would have tried to help saying, what are you doing? Put down the gun? There's got to be a better way. I don't know if I could have pulled the trigger if I was armed because it was one of my students. And I don't know if I could have pulled the trigger shooting one of my students.

DG: The Columbine shooting happened more than 20 years ago. At that time, if I had told you that school shootings would keep happening, and in fact, get worse, what would you have said?

FD: I would have said no way. I can remember a statement that I made probably within 24 hours after the Columbine shooting. I said, I just hope my beloved 13 did not die in vain. And I guess I was naive because, as you pointed out, we've had so many shootings. And I think even within this school year, there's been over 20 school shootings in the United States.

DG: Thank you for taking our phone call today.

FD: Thank you. And I appreciate the opportunity.

CH: Frank Deangelis is the former principal of Columbine High School. We reached him in Arvada, Colorado. And we have more on that story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Cold in to next story]

Texas Police Response

Guest: Tracy Walder

CH: Today, police in Texas are facing tough questions about their response to the school shooting in Uvalde. For more than 45 minutes, they did not enter the classroom where the gunman was shooting. Parents who were outside the school on Tuesday told the Wall Street Journal they were urging the police to save their children. Well, the police now say they made a mistake. Here is the director of the Texas Department of Public Safety, Steven Mccraw, responding to media questions today.

[sc]

REPORTER: What can you tell parents that were here waiting, asking for the police to go in?

STEVEN MCCRAW: Yeah, there was 19… Like I said, there's 19 officers in there. In fact, there's plenty of officers to do whatever needed to be done. With one exception is that the… the incident commander inside believed they needed more equipment and more officers to do a tactical breach at that point. And that’s why more TAC was requested on the scene. As soon as they were there, they executed a search, at least a dynamic entry, and went in. And of course -- [drowned out by a sea of talking] Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey. Stop. With the benefit of hindsight… standby. Standby. Hey, standby. Okay, I got it. From the benefit of hindsight, where I'm sitting now, of course, it was not the right decision. It was the wrong decision. Very wrong. There's no no excuse for that. But again, I wasn't there. But I'm just telling you, from what we know, we believe there should have been an entry as soon as you can. Hey, when there's an active shooter, the rules change. It's no longer… okay? It's no longer a barricaded… you don't have time, you don't worry about preparedness. And by the way, Texas embraces active shooter training, active shooter certification, and that… that… that doctrine requires officers. We don't care what agency you're from. You don't have to have a leader on the scene. Every officer lines up, stacks up, goes and finds where those rounds are being fired at and keeps shooting until the subject is dead, period.

[More of the sea of talking]

[/sc]

CH: Tracy Walder is a former CIA officer and FBI special agent. She's now a teacher. We reached her in Dallas, Texas.

DG: Ms. Walder, we just heard that chaotic police press conference from earlier today.

TRACY WALDER: Yes.

DG: What do you make of the decision by police to wait more than 45 minutes to enter the classroom?

TW: Well, I think that that was the absolute wrong decision. And quite frankly, I think it borderlines on… on criminal negligence. That is your job as an officer to go in and eliminate the threat immediately. School shootings are different and are responded to differently than a simple hostage-style situation.

DG: Explain that to me. From your experience, what should have happened?

TW: They should have made…, and I believe that the chief discussed this. They should have made what's called a dynamic surprise entry into the classroom. And basically what that is, is putting yourself basically in front of the shooter and surprising him.

DG: Apparently, the onsite commander believed the gunman was barricaded in a classroom where no children were at risk. As many as 20 officers stood in that hallway for 45 minutes until they got a master key. What goes through your mind when you hear that?

TW: So that was the part of the press conference, to be honest with you, that disturbed me the most. I do not understand how 19 officers could have been in that hallway and thought that there were no children in that room. You know, a couple of things. There were 911 calls that were coming through. And they would have been in contact with 911 and known that there were probably children in there. Children were giving them precise room numbers of where they were. And from what I understand, you know, children did survive that. And they would… there would have been crying. There would have been potentially screaming. And I'm just… I am completely shocked that that is what their assumption was.

DG: Let's go a little further back in the timeline if we can?

TW: Sure.

DG At first, the police said… the police said they fired at the shooter outside the school.

TW: Yes.

DG: But now, today, they say that the gunman roamed outside the school for 12 minutes before entering completely unchallenged. How does that happen?

TW: So it sounds to me, and I'm trying to obviously do what I can to… to make with what the information is that they're giving to us because I was not there. But what it sounds like is that the suspect or the shooter left his vehicle and then from the vehicle proceeded to the school and actually started shooting as he was coming up to the school. And it sounds like he was hiding behind cars, kind of taking cover behind them, almost engaging sort of in this back and forth gunfight. And so that's why I think it took that long.

DG: The details that came up today, do those details challenge what we heard from State Governor Greg Abbott, who earlier this week hailed the quick response of valiant local officials who he said engaged the gunman before he entered the school?

TW: Yes, it absolutely contradicts. And I think therein lies a large problem is we want to have faith in our politicians. We want to have faith in our law enforcement and their communications teams. And right now, all of the information that's coming out has been very contradictory and is conflicting with each other. And so, that becomes highly problematic, especially with the families who are trying to have a clear picture in regards to what is under… what was going on. And we want people to trust law enforcement and trust our politicians. But that's really difficult to do with such conflicting information.

DG: It's difficult to second guess, or perhaps it's easy to second guess, but think what's going on in the minds of those 20 officers outside. I'm sure it's terrifying to run towards a man carrying an assault rifle. But is your argument, frankly, that's what they're paid and trained to do?

TW: The short answer to that is yes. You know, I'm a former FBI special agent, so I'm a former law enforcement officer. And that was the expectation of my job. Period. Full stop. The end. And the reality is, and I will just be very vulnerable right now. It's part of the reason I don't do that anymore. You know, I am a parent, and I'm not certain that that is something that I'm willing to do. And I'm responsible about it. At least I understood that about myself and selected a different profession. And I just… I think we have a culture here where people want the guns, and they want the toys, but they don't understand that there's a lot that goes behind that.

DG: One of the solutions that has been bandied around over the last 24 hours, once again, is that teachers should be armed. I just spoke with the former high school principal from Columbine School, who said even if he was armed, he probably still would have reasoned with a student before even thinking of drawing a weapon. What do you make of these arguments?

TW: I just… I think it's absolutely ridiculous. You know, I've been a teacher for 15 years. I'm a former FBI special agent. I'm a former CIA officer. I've served in war zones. I've served in Afghanistan. And… and the reality is, is that this is not why teachers get into teaching. These are two very different cultures. And I don't think that you can have the same expectations of teachers that you do of law enforcement officers. Not to mention, this is a whole security concern as well in terms of securing weapons. What if they're not secured correctly? I mean, the shooter got in a door that was unlocked by a teacher. And, you know, I just… I think that it is a horrendous idea, and it's a horrendous expectation to put on teachers.

DG: So if not that, then what? What else could have been done to stop this young man before he went on the shooting rampage?

TW: Well, I mean, I think, and this is the blunt answer. I do not understand why semiautomatic weapons and long guns are that accessible to people here? I live in the state of Texas. I just don't understand why they're that accessible? And I think that that's something that we need to look at in terms of restricting access to those.

DG: Besides being a former agent, as you point out, you're a teacher.

TW: Yes.

DG: You're… you're a mom of an elementary school student. How are you doing this week dealing with all of this?

TW: [chuckle] Oh, gosh, no one's asked me that question. You know, I think it was interesting. When I went to drop my daughter off at school the day after this happened, you know, some parents were crying. You know, I think now I'm really noticing some of the security holes, you know, in my daughter's school. And that's, you know, problematic, I think. You know, it's just… it's a heavy load, I think, for a lot of parents to bear here in the United States. That is part of our thinking is that, you know, maybe my child won't come home today. And I don't know that anyone should have to ever think that way.

DG: Ms. Walter, thank you for joining us.

TW: Of course. Thank you for having me.

CH: Tracy Walder is a former CIA officer and FBI special agent who's now a teacher. We reached her in Dallas, Texas.

[Music: Ambient]

Cockroach Pesticide Mating

Guest: Coby Schal

CH: When two cockroaches love each other very much, they mate. And this beautiful, natural expression of attraction starts with something called a nuptial secretion. Now, that may sound infinitely gross to you. But to cockroaches, the nuptial secretion is irresistible. Or it was, until recently. Researchers have now noticed that something dramatic is changing about how roaches get busy. And as much as we may not want to think about any aspect of that, it's us humans who are responsible. Coby Schal is a professor of entomology at North Carolina State University. We reached him in Raleigh.

DG: Professor Schal, can you tell us about this special treat a male cockroach will prepare for his prospective female partner?

COBY SCHAL: Yeah. So the male kind of like a Valentine's Day event when the male perceives a female near him, he raises his wings and exposes a set of glands on his back. And that set of glands contains the equivalent of chocolate, but without caffeine. [both chuckle] It contains sugars and lipids. So fats and sugars which make for a real tasty treat for the female.

DG: All right. And while the female is enjoying the tasty treat, what is the male doing?

CS: Yeah, so this is the male's trick. He gets the female to mount his back, to mount him on top, and then he telescopes his abdomen, extends his abdomen, and then reaches with… in entomology. It's called a phallomere, but the proper word is penis. He reaches his penis and grabs the end of the female, and copulates with her.

DG: And that's the way it works in the cockroach world.

CS: Exactly, yes. In most cockroaches. Most cockroach species do it that way, yes.

DG: Except you've noticed that something has changed or is changing about this interaction.

CS: Exactly. This interaction evolved for the male to get the female on his back and for the female to kind of feed on this… on this nuptial gift that the male offers her for at least five or six seconds to give the male enough time to reach back and grab her genitalia. But what we noticed was that this… this one type of cockroach that doesn't like to eat glucose, the sugar glucose, the female mounts the male. And as she starts feeding on the secretion, she kind of reacts as if it tastes bad. And she dismounts the male. And she dismounts the male within about three seconds. And that reduces the mating success. We were kind of wondering what… what is the essence of that? Why is this happening?

DG: And now I'm wondering, did the male cockroach bring the wrong box of chocolates?

CS: Yeah. So what's… what's happened… this… this gets to a story that we revealed quite some time ago that these cockroaches, in response to baits that we humans formulate to kill them, these cockroaches have evolved a mutation. And that mutation causes the sugar glucose to taste bitter. And that mutation is incredibly adaptive to these cockroaches because by… by not feeding on this sugar, they avoid the insecticide baits that we target them with. And so… so, it's an interesting case of sort of a conflict emerging where these cockroaches evolved for the sugar to taste bitter and therefore avoid the bait. But then, that mutation interferes with the interaction of the male and the female, which also also depends on sugar. And so, somehow the cockroaches have to reconcile this mismatch between the male and female.

DG: So humans have accidentally found a way to mess with the love life of the male cockroach. I follow that. What effect is it having on cockroach populations?

CS: Yes, so very little, actually. It just changes the population from one type, one population that carries a gene that allows them to eat glucose, to a population that has a gene that says don't touch glucose because it's associated with poison. But in terms of the general size of the population, it's really no different. We have simply changed the… what's called the genotype.

DG: So many would hear the cockroaches are having mating issues and be overjoyed. But you're telling me it doesn't mean there will be fewer cockroaches around?

CS: No, not at all. Because this… this trait that causes them to have low mating success, that trait was balanced by another trait that fixes that anomaly, right? And that other trait is that the males nuptial gift to the female has changed its chemistry. In just a few years, evolution compels it to change. So the male is now making sugars that are much more resilient to being broken down into glucose. The male's nuptial secretion, nuptial gift to the female is a set of complex sugars. We call them disaccharides and trisaccharides. They're made up of glucose. When the female puts her mouth into that nuptial secretion, her saliva breaks down that complex sugar into glucose. But when the male makes more… much more complex sugars, the enzymes in the female saliva are very slow at breaking down those complex sugars. And so, the female goes ahead and eats that secretion and voila, you get mating success again. So the population doesn't change at all.

DG: I know you were a scientist and… and an entomologist, and you probably work hard not to anthropomorphize these creatures.

CS: Yes.

DG: But do you have any sympathy for those cockroaches that… that… that can't seem to make things work the way they used to?

CS: Yeah, that's a… [chuckling] I do, actually because, you know, the idea of any animal not liking glucose is quite anomalous. I mean, you know, look at us humans. I mean, we, you know, we eat all sorts of candy and ice cream. The major component there, the major sweet component, is… is a form of glucose. And so, here are these cockroaches that live in your kitchen. And you eat your Dunkin Donuts, and you leave it… or your Krispy Kreme. You leave it overnight on a kitchen… on a kitchen counter, and this poor cockroach tastes it but cannot eat it because… because it tastes bad to the cockroach. So, yes, I feel for them.

DG: Professor, thank you very much for joining us.

CS: I loved it. Thank you.

CH: That was Professor Coby Schal. We reached him in Raleigh, North Carolina.

[Music: indie rock]

Ottawa Oldest Walker

CH: In less than 24 hours, Rejeanne Fairhead will likely become the oldest person ever to participate in Ottawa's race weekend. And she's doing it pretty much entirely by accident. Tomorrow, Ms. Fairhead, who is 95 years old, will walk a 5K with her children. And immediately after that, they'll try to have her recognized for setting a Canadian record. But it's not glory that fuels the Ottawa nonagenarian.

[sc]

REJEANNE FAIRHEAD: I had no idea it was going to be like that. I was just going for the 5K walk, and that was it. But all of a sudden, because I was the oldest one, it turned into all this attention. [chuckling] I don't like to be glorified or anything. I'm more or less doing it for… to show other seniors that you can do anything at any age. So, I'm doing it more for them than for myself. A lot of them are lonesome, and they don't know what… you know, they stay in their room. Well, get out and walk or get out and do volunteer work and do something. You'll feel better. My friend asked me to walk with her. That's how it started. And I said, no, I've never done it. I'm not interested. And she kept after me. And she kept that from me, so finally, I said, okay, I'll do it. So that's how it started. I've always been a good… good… a fast walker. There's one… one lady that works in the cafeteria. [chuckling] She calls me the fast lady. [laughing] She said, look at her go. Oh, I think this is why I have all this energy because I've never stopped. I've always been busy.

[/sc]

CH: That was Rejeanne Fairhead, speaking -- while walking, of course -- to our colleague Denise Fung in Ottawa.

Part 2: NRA Convention, Chile Oldest Tree

NRA Convention

Guest: Megan Hansen

CH: This afternoon, members of the National Rifle Association gathered in the George R. Brown Convention Center in Houston, Texas, for their annual convention. And outside the convention centre, demonstrators gathered to protest:

[sc]

[Sound: A woman leads a group of protestors in a call and response cheer of "All children matter".

[/sc]

CH: The annual convention comes just days after a shooting at a Texas school, where a gunman murdered 19 children and two teachers. And tensions -- and emotions -- were high today. While some politicians, including Texas Governor Greg Abbott, had cancelled their in-person appearances, others, such as Senator Ted Cruz, were still on the bill. Megan Hansen wants all politicians to take notice of the protest. She's the co-organizer of an inter-faith demonstration that was held this afternoon. And we reached her in Houston.

DG: Ms. Hansen, I wonder if you could describe for me what it was like at today's protests.

MEGAN HANSEN: We had all the feelings. There was great joy in seeing how many people turned out not just for our protest but for some of the bigger protests of our sister organizations. And we also had some frustration and a little fear because we did walk up to where they had fenced off this sidewalk in front of the convention centre. So they're trying to only allow participants to come in through that area. So when we tried to access that sidewalk, we weren't even trying to get into the convention centre, my co-organizer was in the front of the group, and she was manhandled by a security guard. And she's pregnant. And so, we're actually at the hospital right now to make sure that she's okay. We think she's okay. But we want to just make sure that that's… that's true. And we're able to then reclaim our peace. So, in walking back to our gathering spot and reading the names of the victims of Uvalde, that was really powerful.

DG: What was the atmosphere like as the names were being read out?

MH: It largely was peaceful, [chuckling] even the protesters who were yelling at NRA members. People are angry, but people are determined. There is a very determined feeling out there among the protesters. And we want to seek change and to see some of the groups come together. Black Lives Matter working with Moms Demand Action that is who Houston is, right? It's a very diverse mix of people. And we need to be standing together and saying we are one body, and we do not agree with what the NRA says. And that… that was the feeling out there.

DG: Did you go there expecting to change the minds of anyone attending this convention?

MH: You know, I don't know. I think in… in our faith world, I never know what to expect. I always have hope. I don't necessarily have expectation. Doing the work, following where we're called, that's what we know we have to do. We don't always know where it's going to end up. And so, I don't have expectations from it. I definitely have hope. Maybe somebody witnessed the signs and heard the voices of the protesters and heard some speeches and witnessed our silent walk and heard the names of the victims. And maybe they'll change their mind. Maybe they won't change their mind today. But maybe it'll plant a seed further down the road. And that's… that's what we're trying to do.

DG: I was struck by the signs the protesters were carrying, in contrast to the giant sign in front of the convention promising 14 acres of guns and gear.

MH: Right? [belching]

DG: Just how… how far apart is the divide?

MH: [deep sigh] It's unfortunately very far apart. The rhetoric that is shared by people, by the NRA, by the politicians they support, their members, the conservative side of politics in the country is just becoming more hardened. And guns are part of that because when you have a gun, you feel invulnerable and inviolable and that nobody can tell you what to do. And I think that's what we see in each of these mass shootings and shootings that happen every day. We live in… in Houston, and this is on the news every day. And that doesn't get national or international attention because it's just seen as normal. And that's not okay. And that's not what happens in other countries, so.

DG: Gun owners and those supporting the NRA say they also want to keep their kids safe. They just believe the guns help them do that. What do you make of that argument?

MH: I have not seen the evidence of that. I see zero evidence. There's a lot of evidence that guns make our everyday lives more unsafe. But this good guy with a gun myth, very rarely do we ever see it be true. And often, people with guns with supposedly good intentions just cause more damage and more violence. Yeah, I don't see a way out with a gun.

DG: After each of these shootings. We see protests like the one you pardon today. We hear calls for change, and we see these shootings continue. What do you think it will take for meaningful change to take place?

HM: Um, we have seen in small ways change take place. So after Parkland, there were some laws in Florida, some gun control laws that were put in place. It wasn't everything [chuckle] that March for Our Lives or Moms Demand Action or other groups wanted. But it was some small measure of change. In Connecticut, after Newtown, they also put in place gun control laws. And I think we need to continue that work. And that's… that is being a person of faith, we know that life is long. And it's often longer than we have in this world. And so, the work we do now, we may not see the end of it. And so we just have to keep doing it. And… and it is exhausting. But if we can continue to do it as a community and continue to pray together, continue to gather together, to talk together, to spread those seeds and plant them in the hearts of our family members who are gun owners or don't agree with us. We are seeing change. It's just hard to see sometimes.

DG: What do you feel you accomplished today?

HM: We had a very diverse group of people come out that I know do not all know each other. We hope to build on that together. You know, we have a lot of issues that we need to tackle. And in Texas, it seems like the news is bad every day, but we're determined to make a change because this is unacceptable. And this group of people is willing to do that work.

DG: Thank you for speaking with us.

HM: Thank you so much.

CH: Megan Hansen is co-organizer of an inter-faith protest today outside the National Rifle Association's annual convention in Houston.

[Music: Light rock]

Ottawa Power Back

CH: As we've been hearing all week, many Ottawa residents have been without power since last weekend's brutal storm ripped through the area. In fact, earlier today -- nearly a week after that storm -- Hydro Ottawa said there were still 31,000 customers without power. And after several days without, the feeling when it gets restored is celebratory -- as Patricia Fish told the CBC.

[sc]

PATRICIA FISH: Well, we got the electricity last night, so I'm having a coffee. [HC laughs] And it's my first coffee.

HALLIE COTNAM: Your first coffee that you've made in your own apartment for a week?

PF: That's correct.

HC: Does it taste especially good this morning, Patricia?

PF: [laughing] Definitely, yes.

HC: You said your power came back last night. Were you in the home when it came on?

PF: No, actually, we had gone for supper with my children. And from their backyard, they're a couple of blocks away. And they can see our building, and all of a sudden, they spotted lights. We all got up and celebrated. [HC laughs] We looked a little bit unusual, you know, to celebrate such a thing.

HC: Do you remember, Patricia, the day of the storm? I mean.

PF: Yes, I do remember it. The wind and the darkness of the clouds. It was Mother Nature really angry.

HC: Yeah. And when the lights first went out back on Saturday, you probably thought, like most of us did, that it's going to be a short time, right?

PF: Exactly. Yes. And when it turned out to be a little bit longer, then we realized, well, we have to get our act together.

HC: What did you do?

PF: Well, first of all, we checked what we had for food. [chuckle] We are seniors, so a lot of our meals are pre-cooked. So when you have meat that's pre-cooked, you know, you can keep it a bit longer. And we have lots of fruits and vegetables.

HC: So what would you say, Patricia, has been the most challenging part of living without electricity for the better part of a week?

PF: It's an odd feeling. During COVID, we had the media, we had contact, we had all the telephones, TVs, everything working. So we were connected. But this time, it was total silence. And it's an eerie feeling. No lights, no sound. And you turn around and try to figure out, okay, what am I going to do? Oh, can't make coffee. Oh, can't take a shower. So eventually, you step out on the balcony just to connect with a little bit of normal.

[/sc]

CH: That was Ottawa resident Patricia Fish talking to Hallie Cotnam of Ottawa Morning. Ms. Fish and her husband finally got their power back last night, after six days without it.

[Music: Uke!!!]

Chile Oldest Tree

Guest: Jonathan Barichivich

CH: When you walk through a forest on a windy day, you can sometimes hear the trees groaning. But in one forest in Chile, it's possible that one tree groans whether there's a breeze or not. It's a cypress tree known as "Gran Abuelo" -- or Great-Grandfather. Although they should probably talk a couple dozen more "Greats" on. Because scientists say, there's evidence to suggest the tree is over 5,000 years old. Which would make it the world's oldest tree by more than 600 years. And the oldest living thing on Earth. Jonathan Barichivich is the lead researcher on the study. He's works with the Climate and Environmental Sciences Laboratory based in Paris. His family has been living near that ancient cypress for generations. We reached Mr. Barichivich at his family's home near La Unión, Chile.

DG: Jonathan, can you tell me what it feels like to stand next to this ancient tree?

JONATHAN BARICHIVICH: I knew it all my life. So it is like a relative of me, like a member of the family. So, I'm used to it. But for people that come, sometimes it's like a spiritual experience for many of them.

DG: What does it look like?

JB: It's massive. It looks like… uh, like a big wall. It is just so big and old looking that it is really something special.

DG: You tell me you… you've known about it your whole life. Can you tell me about how your family first discovered this tree?

JB: Yes. Well, my family arrived to this part of the world, like, 70 years ago, and then my grandfather became park ranger. And then, my… my uncle was park ranger, and my mum was park ranger, and I became a scientist. I grew up here in the forest near the tree my grandfather discovered in 1972 around that time.

DG: So, do you feel bound by duty to take care of this tree?

JB: Exactly. And that's what the tree was crying for help. And I understood that. And something needed to be done because it's the main attraction to the park currently. And there is many people that stepped down the viewing platform and step on the root and peel its bark, peel its mosses. So, it's really like a lion in a cage in a zoo.

DG: How did you find out how old this tree is?

JB: Well, this tree has been the elephant in the room for… for… for scientists, in a way, because it's been here known for a while, but no one has been doing anything. And we have a research site nearby where we study ecosystem dynamics. But the tree, we decided to do something when we saw it in such a bad condition and also to see how climate change is affecting it because there is a big drought here. We call it the Megadrought. It's like a 13-year-long drought now. And we want to… also to see how the tree is doing with that.

DG: The usual way to find out how old a tree is is to bore a hole into it and literally count the rings. Can you do that with this tree?

JB: That's a limitation of dendrochronology or ring counting because the tree's so massive that with the longest borer we have, we get a sample of 40 per cent of the whole trunk that we should sample to the core in a way. So there is a 60 per cent that we don't reach and we don't know.

DG: So, how have you estimated its age?

JB: To estimate the age, we have to really think hard, use all our scientific skills. Then we come up with a method through statistical simulation that will allow us to estimate the 60% that we cannot reach at the moment. And based on the biology of tree growth and also on the growth characteristic, growth patterns of all other trees that we have sampled, hundreds or even thousands. And also on the grow rhythms of the same tree. Combine all these, we can get with a very good estimate, in a way, of the 60 per cent that we are missing.

DG: And how old do you think it is?

JB: So, the… the… the… these methods tell us that there is an 80 per cent chance that this tree is older than 5,000 years old, with the most likely age of 5,400 years.

DG: 5,400 years ago, that would be back when humans were in the Bronze Age. That… that would be older than the 4,800-year-old bristlecone pine in California known as Methuselah. Will you be able to prove this definitively, do you think?

JB: Yes. Well, it's not about a competition or breaking records. The research I am doing is all about protecting the tree in a way, raising our awareness to… to say that it is one of the oldest trees on the planet. But the thing is that this is a living tree. That makes it unique. Be it the oldest or not, the conservation of this tree is something that really needs to be done urgently. And luckily, the park authorities have received it very well, and they are very, very keen in working with us in, you know, a collective and collaborative way to implement the proposals for protecting the tree that we have.

DG: How has this one tree survived for thousands of years?

JB: This kind of tree is outside the range in a way. Is it something that shouldn't exist. But, as a colleague said, there are many secrets in the forest that we still… we don't know. All that we can say that this tree is like very protected in a corner, in a creek. So it's in that lake, in the corner of a corner, far away from all other trees. So in around a kilometre, there is no no other tree. And it's in this cool and wet creek that also promotes, in a way, a growth, probably very slow growth for the tree.

DG: You told me you fear for its future. Is the tree dying?

JB: Yes, the tree is dying. It's only around 20 per cent of all the circumference at the base is alive. And the problem is that the only living part of the tree is right where the people step when they… they they go down to the viewing platform. That is the main worry that why we decided to really study the tree.

DG: Jonathan, you've dedicated your life to this tree. Why?

JB: Well, it's a member of my family. It's a… it was discovered by my grandfather. Protected by my grandfather, protected by my uncle, protected by my mother and all my family. My grandmother, too. And it is part of my life. And then I went away to do science and to study the role of forests in the earth system. And then came back to my tree and, and listened to its call for help. And I use all my science to try to answer that call for help.

DG: Good luck to you, and thank you for joining us.

JB: Thank you very much.

CH: That was Jonathan Barichivich, a Chilean scientist at the Climate and Environmental Sciences Laboratory in Paris. He and his team believe they've found the world's oldest living tree -- a 5,000-plus-year-old cypress in Chile.

[Music: Fiddle]

New World’s Oldest Dog

CH: Listen, I don't blame anyone for wanting to celebrate their successes publicly. How could I? Talking to over-achievers and world record breakers is our bread and butter here at As It Happens. Just yesterday, we brought you the stories of the world's largest gathering of vampires and the world's longest freestyle rap session. In recent weeks, we have covered the world's longest hopscotch course. The world's loudest belch. The world's longest curling game. The world's most quickly assembled Mr. Potato Head. I know: we don't just cover broken records, I sound like one. Anyway, it turns out there is some risk involved in going public with one's achievements. And for a 21-year-old chihuahua named TobyKeith, the risk was two-fold. First, there was the fact that As It Happens guest host Dave Seglins asked some questions that put the world's would-be oldest dog on the spot.

[sc]

DS: TobyKeith? Hello! Good boy!

GS: [chuckling] He's just scratching.

DS: Nothing, huh?

GS: Nothing.

DS: Now, I'm not trying to make light, but is it true that you can't teach old dogs new tricks?

GS: I don't want to say it's due to their age. I think TobyKeith has always been a little stubborn when it comes to tricks. I have two other dogs, and I've been able to teach them so many tricks, and TobyKeith will only respond to come here. Let's go to bed. Do you want to go outside? There's like five phrases that he likes. Other than that, that's it! [chuckling]

DS: Yeah. Well, he wasn't willing to speak to me.

GS: [both chuckle]No. You see, that's what I'm talking about.

[/sc]

CH: Dave Seglins, speaking with dog owner Gisela Shore last month -- about her 21-year-old chihuahua, which she believed to be the world's oldest dog. And she had every reason to believe it. The trouble is, other dog owners heard her say as much, and started doing some math of their own. And now: introducing Pebbles -- a toy fox terrier who is 22 years old. Her owner, Julie Gregory, said, "When I saw TobyKeith's story all over the news, I applied." And Guinness World Records replied, with the certification she was after. Like TobyKeith, Pebbles apparently thrives on love, good food, and country music. Proving all good dogs are copy cats.

Part 3: Australia Remains Buried, Spiders Online Trade

CFL Less Canadians

CH: The new season of the CFL kicks off tonight -- with the Toronto Argos playing the Ottawa Redblacks. But the game almost didn't happen. Two weeks ago, football players from seven of the league's nine teams went on strike. Now, a last-minute deal means the season will go ahead. But it might be a little less Canadian. According to CFL Commissioner Randy Ambrosie, the newly ratified contract reduces the number of Canadian starters required on teams. It also reduces the number of required nationalized Canadians -- Americans who have played in the league for at least a few years. Wayne "Thumper" Harris was an American linebacker who played for the Calgary Stampeders in the '60s and went on to become a Canadian Football Hall of Famer. He settled in Canada, and his son, Wayne Harris Jr., also played a season with the Stampeders. Wayne Harris Jr. is now the head coach of the University of Calgary Dinos.

[sc]

WAYNE HARRIS JR.: Canadians need to have the vision, the opportunity when they're youths that they have an opportunity to get to the CFL and play pro. When I'm recruiting high school athletes, one of the things we talk about is what their aspirations are? And the vast majority is to play in the Canadian Football League. And, you know, having that opportunity really grows the game at the youth level. We're seeing a resurgence right now across Canada of the numbers increasing for the youth playing in football. And it's gotta be opportunities. And if we want to get people in the stands, I think a lot of that has to come through building that fan base at the youth level. Canadians, they build their life in the communities that they live in, and often that's with the team that they play for. It's not going to be just the guys that are out on the field. It's going to be the guys that are in the community, going to dinners, playing in charity basketball games or hockey games and things of that nature. You get that from a few Americans, but most Americans do return home to the United States in the off-seasons and… and don't spend their full time up here. So, again, it's staying connected through the year versus just through the football season.

ROB BROWN: We have seen many players who come to Canada from the U.S. put down roots in Canada and in our city. Your dad is an example of that, right? He played with the Stamps through the sixties and seventies. Is there not some wiggle room for long-term American players to be considered Canadian?

WHJ: I think there's a hope. They did do that in the sixties, where they became a nationalized Canadian that they could play as a Canadian in the CFL. For my father coming up here back in the sixties, the Canadian pay was the same as it was in the NFL.

RB: Was it really?!

WHJ Yeah. Yeah. So… so that was incentive.

RB: What role does talent play in all of this, the ratio question? Is it fair to say that the league wants more American players because, generally, American players are better?

WHJ: Well, I'm not so sure that the American players are better. They come in with more experience. The Americans have come up with more grassroots training. More games played at the university level. And so they're a little bit better prepared in most cases by the time they get to the CFL. Whereas the Canadians, the other thing that happens is most Americans enter university at 19 or 20 years of age, while many of our players enter at 17 or 18 in the university. They need development. And that's a big key to the Canadian part of the game is getting the opportunity to play. And that's why the ratio is so important so that they're not just going to be seen where they're at now, but where they could be in one or two years down the road.

[/sc]

CH: That was Wayne Harris Jr., a former Calgary Stampeder and head coach of the University of Calgary Dinos. He spoke with the CBC's Rob Brown today.

Australia Remains Buried

Guest: Michael Young

CH: Last month, we told you the story of a fight over 40,000-year-old remains known as The Mungo Man and Mungo Lady in Australia. Indigenous Elders fought in court to halt government plans to rebury the remains, saying they hadn't been properly consulted on the move. They filed an injunction, and earlier this week, they received written assurances that the plan had been put on hold. The next day, they learned that promise had been broken -- and the remains were moved and secretly reburied. Michael Young is the Paakantyi Pirindji man and former member of the local Aboriginal Advisory Group we spoke with last month. We reached him again today in Mildura, Australia.

DG: Mr. Young, your community had written assurances that the remains would not be moved. What happened to them?

MICHAEL YOUNG: Well, this is something that we need investigated. You were right. We were guaranteed by the federal and state that nothing would happen out there. And the people out there among the heritage staff, they were informed about this, and they only took it as advice. So we would like to know what has happened because this is a serious crime that has happened over here.

DG: How are people in your community responding to the news?

MY: Very upset. Very upset. A lot of the elders, they just can't believe that this has actually transpired. That it happened so secretly. So, it was just a small group that decided to do this and… and kept it secret from the community. So, we're in shock about this.

DG: Do you even know where the remains are now?

MY: No, we don't. Because that was part of the proposal. Secret burials. And again, as far as we know in the proposal was that they were buried to a 60-centimetre depth. Now that's a higher rise of area. And we do believe that between five and ten years is the only time that they will have covered over. In other words, the erosion is quite high out there. So between five and 10 years before they're uncovered again.

DG: As I understand it, the remains were under lock and key in a national park facility. Do you… do you know who exactly moves them?

MY: No, we don't know the actual person who moved them, but it would appear that there was a number of people that did this. And it's the heritage staff out there, the New South Wales staff, that looks after the park, looked after the remains. That was in a vault out at Mungo National Park. So… and there was only one set of keys, to my knowledge. So, that particular person, I hope they've got a good excuse.

DG: This is exactly what you were fighting to stop from happening. How would you hoped these remains would be treated instead?

MY: We were investing in the future. So for the last 30 years, all of the old elders, et cetera, were talking about investment in the future, about continuing our story and not destroying our culture, which has been a bit of a campaign out here for 234 years. We wanted an investment in a research centre and a keeping place for all the artifacts and our… and our people. We wanted to be the keeping pace. That would have linked in with a lot of education, our storytelling, and it also would have linked in a lot of the education. We would have had our own archeologists, anthropologists, geologists doing the work out there. So it's an opportunity, a big opportunity, that should be continued to be pursued.

DG: Again, you were promised by government officials this wouldn't happen and promised in writing. The new Minister for Indigenous Australians, Linda Burney, has acknowledged this. Have they explained why the remains were moved anyway?

MY: No, they haven't. And this is something that we're really concerned about is that the closure of any scrutiny or accountability out there has pretty much closed down for the last three to four years, and particularly over the COVID period. They were saying they were doing consultations, which in actual fact, was not true because we were in lockdown for the last two years. So the consultations were with people, maybe with email addresses and tech-savvy people, and that is not a general rule in some of the community… isolated communities out here.

DG: Have they apologized?

MY: No.

DG: So what's going on, do you think?

MY: You know what? I really think it was a desperate act of a government that was on its way out. And the environment minister, previous environment minister, she gave the approval five days before they called the election. The government then goes into caretaker mode. Now there's certain protocols for caretaker mode. Really, the caretaker mode was when they were going to bury it, which means that she was unanswerable. She didn't have to explain.

DG: So what could be done at this point to make things right in your eyes?

MY: Well, you know, we're looking at all of those options. You know, someone was even saying maybe we could go out and recover them. And that is true. As soon as we know where they are. And we could inter them into the keeping place, the keeping place that we've always been promised out there. I think it's really something that we need to keep pushing, which is the future generations. And now that we've got a new government, they're actually starting to talk to Indigenous people here. We've got a new Labor government, and that is a priority for them is the Indigenous voice to Parliament. So, there are things happening. We just have to get rid of the Conservatives to get that moving.

DG: It's clear how frustrated you are about this.

MY: Yes. And I'm just one person. Right through the community, a lot of people are asking questions, and we're still not getting any answers.

DG: And just so our listeners know, why is this so important to you?

MY: This is so important to me because this is my grandmother's country, my people's country. We go way back, even in… even in the records, the white fella's records, we go back to the 1840s. We have ancestors that go all the way back through my family. And this is country for us. That's our country. So, we have lots of tribes. We've got over 250 tribes in Australia. It's important for us to be custodians. We really need to take that role because all we've had is… are the mining companies, pastoralists or governments destroying our cultural heritage. And it is... it's cultural genocide that we're seeing here today in the 21st century. So we're certainly in a position where we can advance this humanity and actually contribute to the world. And this is what we've been waiting for.

DG: Mr. Young, thank you for joining us.

MY: It's been my pleasure. Thank you.

CH: Michael Young is a former member of his local Aboriginal Advisory Group. We reached him in Mildura, Australia.

[Music: instrumental]

Alexandre Bissonnette Parole

CH: Alexandre Bissonnette will now be eligible for parole after he's served 25 years. In 2017, Mr. Bissonnette shot and killed six people who had gone to pray at Quebec City's Islamic Cultural Centre. He was originally ordered to serve five consecutive 25-year terms without eligibility for parole. But today in Ottawa, the Supreme Court found that punishment to be, quote, "cruel and unusual". So, instead, Mr. Bissonnette's sentences will be served concurrently. And he'll be able to apply for parole after 25 years. Mohamed Labidi, the President of the Quebec Islamic Cultural Centre, described the community's disappointment.

[sc]

MOHAMED LABIDI: The deception of this decision because it doesn't take into consideration the atrocity of the… of the tragedy, the killing of six person and injuring five of them. And our deep concern is about the orphans that will see the murder in the Quebec City.

REPORTER: The community has been upset since really the beginning, since the first sentence, is that correct?

ML: Yes. Yes. Because for us, our intent was to have a sentence that consider this atrocity and consider the atrocity of the events and the multiple murder, uh, that took place in the mosque. Uh, and it is a very tragic situation that we don't want to… to be repeated, everybody in Canada.

REPORTER #2: And the reflections of an insider. You spoke about that kind of the reflections, and the five years later since the tragedy, I wanted to know, do you feel that the message of tolerance and inclusion in the community has come through the last five years in Quebec? Has there been some improvements on that and…

ML: Yes. Yes. We… we… we feel that… that there is an improvement, a positive improvement about the relationship between our community and the society in general. But we should work together all the time to try to… to improve to improve that in the future.

[/sc]

CH: That was Mohamed Labidi, the President of the Quebec Islamic Cultural Centre, speaking to reporters after learning that the man who killed six people in the mosque would be allowed to apply for parole after serving 25 years in prison.

[Music: Ambient]

Spiders Online Trade

Guest: Caroline Fukushima

CH: While public attention mostly focuses on stopping the trade of cute, charismatic creatures like birds and monkeys, Caroline Fukushima and her colleagues are worried about creatures you might find less sympathetic. In a new study, the researchers have uncovered the largely unregulated world of the spider trade. More than 1,200 species of spiders, tarantulas, and other arachnids are being traded -- and the vast majority of it is unregulated. And while you may be wondering why anyone would want to own a tarantula, Ms. Fukushima is worried that species are disappearing into the void faster than scientists, including her, can even catalogue them.

DG: Caroline, why is it so concerning for you personally that these species are being traded?

CAROLINE FUKUSHIMA: Personally, like I have been studying tarantulas for more than 20 years. So for me, it's something that the trade always permeated my work in the sense that I work at describing new species. And many times we could see that some tarantula species, for example, they were being traded before being described by scientists. It means, for example, that, well, if they go to the trade and some populations can be depleted, that we are losing biodiversity very fast.

DG: It's not just tarantulas that are being traded. How did you go about figuring out how big the spider trade business is?

CF: Yeah. Well, we search in databases like in, let's say, formal databases from governments like the U.S. one. And als, we searched in websites to look what the web stores were selling. And then we realized that that trade permeated more the arachnid group that we thought from the beginning. So we could see different families, many species, more than 1,200 species being traded. So it's a lot considering what we knew before. And yeah, it was kind of a surprise to know how big this trade actually is.

DG: When you found out how big the trade was. Were you surprised by some of the spiders being traded?

CF: Yeah, I think if somebody knows someone that has a spider, usually it’s a tarantula because they are bigger and they have like collars and they can be somehow animals that people are afraid of. So can cause, like, a good impression or, you know, like this kind of… this kind of feelings. So, yeah, I was kind of surprised by the… the extent of the trade, like many different types of arachnids, Most spiders, big spiders, coloured ones, brownish ones, the ones with venom without venom that is active against humans. So, it's… it's really… it's huge.

DG: Even daddy longlegs?

CF: Yeah. This for me personally was a surprise to to know that people are trading that for I don't know have as a fact or maybe to another reason. But apparently, yes, we can… we can see all types of spiders, arachnids in the trade.

DG: There are millions, if not billions of spiders out there. Why does it matter if some are traded? Won't the population just replenish itself?

CF: Yeah, maybe this is not exactly what can happen. Actually, we know that for some spiders the trade can be something very harmful. For example, we have some spiders, they… they are very endemic, meaning that they only happen in a specific place on the planet. So of course, these animals, they are very wanted in the commerce. So people go there and take hundreds of species from that place. So you cannot find in any other place of the world. So it's… it's harmful to… to natural populations. Again, we are seeing that many of the spiders, they are being described and going to the trade even before. So we found out in our work that over 25 per cent of tarantulas, for example, describe that things are 2,000 are already on the trade. So that… that's why… so it's a matter of concern because we have very few information of the populations in their natural habitat. But for some, we already know that the trade can cause like a very huge problem in the populations.

DG: Spiders to most people, let's be honest, are not cute and fuzzy. Does that make it more difficult, do you think, to get authorities to protect them?

CF: Definitely. I think this is a very serious problem. We can see many papers, like scientific papers, pointing the connection between public opinion about some animals or some organisms and the funding directed to these organisms. So meaning that, of course, if it's a cute and charismatic animal, for example, a mammal, they will have more funding to protect, more funding to stood… to study basic things. So we, the people that work with invertebrates, for example, and with these kind of animals like spiders, scorpions and so on, we feel that's very difficult to convince authorities that they matter, to be studied, first thing and they matter to be conserved. So it's very connected. And if we don't have like basic research, like knowing the species, describing the species and where they are, what they… how they live and what can cause threat to this species. Of course, it's going to be super difficult to understand how we can conserve. So I guess this is they are very connected, of course, public opinion and consequently the authorities opinion and the priorities are very important for science in general and even more for conservation.

DG: Caroline, thank you very much for joining us.

CF: No, it's my pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity of talking about spiders and arachnids in general.

CH: Caroline Fukushima is a postdoctoral researcher at the Finnish Museum of Natural History, and an author of the new paper. We reached her in Helsinki.

[Music: Industrial]

Andrew Fletcher Obit

CH: In the 1989 documentary Depeche Mode - 101, Andrew Fletcher gave a succinct, half-joking, half-accurate description of his role in the group.

[sc]

ANDREW FLETCHER: You know, I'm just the… my job is to keep everyone together really. Martin's a songwriter. Alan's a good musician. Dave's a vocalist, and I bum around. [chuckling]

[/sc]

CH: He's not really answering the most common question about his role in the group. Which was: what was it? But by all accounts, the first part of his answer was accurate: his job was to keep everyone together. And he managed that pretty well. Andrew Fletcher -- a founding member of Depeche Mode -- has died. He was 60 years old. He was there when the group came together in the late '70s. And over 40-plus years of success and upheaval -- including the departure of Alan Wilder in 1995, and struggles with addiction for both singer Dave Gahan and songwriter Martin Gore -- he continued to be there. Standing at the back behind a keyboard -- and, more important, handling the complicated business of an enormous band's complicated business. Dave Gahan once joked, "Maybe we should set up a fax machine for him onstage." I assume that was in the '90s. His relative anonymity didn't bother him, though. Quite the opposite: he embraced it. It's rare to find an interview in which he didn't exult about it. "People know the name Depeche Mode," he once told an interviewer, "but the average person on the street doesn't know what a member of Depeche Mode looks like. It's a great situation." And he shared his motto, which was: "Safe and steadfast".

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May 27, 2022

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