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The AIH Transcript for May 3nd, 2022

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight

HM: Judgement day. A leaked U.S. Supreme Court document threatens to end abortion access in states across the country. And as soon as our guest heard that news, she took to the streets in protest.

CH: May it please the courts. We'll hear from an anti-abortion activist who says she couldn't be happier to see the draft decision -- and hopes that soon all abortions will be a thing of the past in the United States.

HM: Second thoughts. The global body in charge of time-keeping says the time has come to redefine everyone's favourite unit of time. And it's just the type of project that makes our guest tick.

CH: The culinary art. Nearly 50 years ago, our guests traded some grilled cheese sandwiches for a painting from a patron -- and now, she's selling what turns out to have been an original Maud Lewis at auction.

HM: You're not the bus of me. Seems the Canadian band Destroyer was forced to fire a bus driver for incompetence in the middle of a tour. But as you know, and the driver may not, them's the brakes.

CH: And… the wild life aquatic. At first, our guest wasn't sure what he'd seen floating down the Detroit River. But now that it's turned out he spotted an animal that had been driven out of the area a century ago, everyone is feeling buoyant.

CH: As It Happens, the Tuesday Edition. Radio that welcomes our guests, and their significant otters.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Roe V Wade: Dem Candidate, Roe V Wade: Anti-Abortion, Windsor River Otter

Roe V Wade: Dem Candidate

Guest: Reverend Wendy Hamilton

CH: If the judgment stands, it could upend abortion access across the U.S. -- and throw out a legal precedent that's lasted almost 50 years. Last night, a draft U.S. Supreme Court ruling overturning Roe v. Wade was leaked. In the draft majority opinion, conservative justice Samuel Alito calls Roe an "ill-conceived and deeply flawed decision that invented a right mentioned nowhere in the Constitution." The Supreme Court responded to the leak today, saying it was not yet a final decision and could change. Meanwhile, pro-abortion protesters took to the streets. Wendy Hamilton was among them. She's an ordained minister and is running to be a Democratic candidate for Congress. We reached her in Washington, D.C.

HM: Reverend Hamilton, what was your first reaction when you saw this leaked Supreme Court judgement last night?

REVEREND WENDY HAMILTON: I couldn't believe it. It was… it was shock. It was outrage. It was… I had just gotten home and thought I was going to relax, had taken off my shoes, opened up Twitter, saw Roe v Wade being overturned, trending, put my shoes right back on, and headed straight to the Supreme Court because I just… I couldn't stay in the house at that point.

HM: You say you were shocked but did it come as a complete surprise?

RWH: Yes, absolutely. I mean, they've been… they've been hinting at this, right? This has been going on for years, talking about Roe v Wade could be overturned. And each time we had a change on the Supreme Court, there were conversations about it. But this was really the first tangible evidence that we've seen, or at least that I've seen, that they were actually physically going to do it. Because in public, they'll say, oh, you know, Roe v Wade is the law of the land. We're not going to, you know, touch that.

HM: But we have seen states increasingly challenge abortion rights. And that these cases have been making their way to the Supreme Court. So, there's been a suggestion that something along this line was coming, whether this was the decision or not.

RWH: Correct. But here's the difference for me in Washington, D.C., and the reason why I'm running for D.C. delegate to the House of Representatives. We don't have statehood, right? We don't have a vote in Congress right now. So we're at the whims of the federal government. So, whatever they decide, it hits us harder and faster in D.C. than other states. So, if we get a Republican Congress this time, they could outright ban abortion in D.C., and there's nothing we can do about it. So for me, that's why I got up off of my couch. Because this has a different impact on D.C., say, than the rest of the country.

HM: Tell me about those moments, those hours after you're tied on those running shoes and went over to the Supreme Court. [RWH chuckles] What was it like outside that building last night?

RWH: Well, you know, when I first got there, it was just like this eerie silence, right? And folks just kind of wandering around aimlessly like, I know I want to be here. And I just wanted to be with people who I know, you know, were feeling similarly. I didn't have any signs with me. I had nothing. So, it was just groups of people who were just kind of looking at each other sort of solemnly and that. But as the crowd began to grow, and certainly when pro-life protesters showed up and challenged the rest of the crowd, then it was on and popping. Then, the energy started going. And we, you know, we're kind of going toe-to-toe. It was non-violent, you know, and it's free speech. And where else to practice that but in front of the Supreme Court? But it definitely got heated when those folks showed up.

HM: You already said what you think the consequences could be for people where you live in Washington, D.C.

RWH: Correct.

HM: But across the United States, if this draft judgement ultimately gets voted on by the majority of justices on the court, what does it mean for women across the United States?

RWH: Well, what it ultimately means, it's up to your state. So, depending upon where your states stand, you know, they can put some things in place. I've already seen California. They've already risen up, the governor and some others. They're going to… you know, they're going to introduce a resolution to codify in California. But if you're in more conservative states like Alabama, and you need an abortion for a health-related issue, because that was another thing that was being said last night, abortion is health care. So if something comes up with you in Alabama, and it's been banned and outlawed in Alabama, you've got to drive 1,100 miles to Illinois to get your health care needs met. And that's… that's where it's going to be an issue. And particularly with the maternal health mortality rates in African-American women being sky-high. This is Maternal Health Week. We just passed that for Black women. So, you're… you're putting Black women and women of colour's health at risk by suggesting that where they might live, they can't get their health care needs met because of how you might feel about a particular issue. It's not safe. It's not humane, and it's not going to stand.

HM: The discourse on this on social media blew up instantly, within seconds, within minutes, last night. How do you think this is going to affect the politics of the United States, not just the reality for women seeking abortion, but the politics of the country itself?

RWH: It's really going to show us what we're made of. And I say that as a Democrat running for office. But for the Democrats in particular, right now, we have in the United States, we have a Democratic House, we have a Democratic Senate, and we have the presidency. It is giving the Democrats an opportunity to step up now and do what they said that they were going to do because that's what we voted them in to do.

HM: As a Democrat, when you look at the party that you support, do you feel that they've dropped the ball on this for a long time, that they have sort of failed to safeguard abortion rights?

RWH: Well, let me say this. Let me say that, you know, no party is perfect. And I and while I am a Democrat, I run based on policy and who's going to get things done. And so, I'm not going to bash one party over the other because it takes two to tango, right? So, yeah, absolutely. Obama said he's going to do the same thing, but he had a Republican Congress there. He only had, you know, the Democratic House there and Senate for the first part of his presidency. And he was pulling us out of a quagmire that we had just come out of with Bush. So, I'm not one to pin the blame necessarily on President Biden or on a particular party because these are human issues. A woman's right to make her own choices for her body, they should transcend party.

HM: Do you think this could turn the tides, that it could have a significant impact on what we see happen in November?

RWH: I do. Suddenly the sea change has happened. Democrats are now going to mobilize… or those who are pro-choice. Like I said because there are pro-choice Republicans. Let's be clear. That's why I'm saying it's not a party thing. It's an American. It's a woman thing. It's a rights thing. And so, they are going to be rallying and championing and donating and pushing forward pro-choice candidates who promise that if they put them in Congress, they will abide by what they're being sent there to do.

HM: Now, Chief Justice Roberts has confirmed that the document is real, as you've noted. But, of course, the vote itself hasn't happened. Do you have any expectation, any hope that any of the justices who are expected to vote in favour of this decision will… will flip it?

RWH: Well, you know what? As bleak as it may look for some, I just have to believe that the humanity that is in the hearts of some of our justices will… will trump their party loyalty. And that they will see the damage that this could do to people. Not to their political reputation, not to their aspirations, but to women, to human beings, to fellow Americans, who look up to them for guidance and for protection over extreme, you know, decisions such as these.

HM: Reverend Hamilton, thank you for talking to us today.

RWH: Yes, sure. Thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it.

HM: All right. Bye-bye.

RWH: Okay. Have a day.

CH: We reached Reverend Wendy Hamilton in Washington, D.C., and you can find more on this story on our webpage at cbc.ca/aih.

[cold in to next story]

Roe V Wade: Anti-Abortion

Guest: Ruth Malhotra

CH: Ruth Malhotra is a lifelong evangelical Christian who lobbied for the Georgia heartbeat bill, which bans nearly all abortions after six weeks. That law is being challenged in court. When we last spoke with her in September 2020, she was celebrating the nomination of conservative justice Amy Coney Barrett to the U.S. Supreme Court. We've reached Ruth Malhotra today in Atlanta, Georgia.

HM: Ms. Malhotra, what was it like for you when you got this notification about the draft Supreme Court ruling overturning Roe v Wade?

RUTH MALHOTRA: You know, it was really like a shock and awe experience. I was initially really surprised. It was obviously unexpected in terms of timing, but it was also what I've been hoping and praying for and working towards for nearly 20 years now as a pro-life advocate and activist.

HM: We just spoke with a woman, a pastor, who was on the streets of Washington last night protesting this draft decision. She says that it will force women, especially marginalized women, to drive thousands of miles for basic health care. How do you respond?

RM: You know, first of all, I would take issue with the idea that abortion is health care. I think that's a false slogan. I think violence requires lies. And abortion is a very violent action that takes the life of an innocent human being. And so, you know, I would say, first of all, abortion is not health care. Women. Will… and, you know, will always have access to real health care. And I hope that the pro-life movement will lead with compassion. I think we're seeing a real awareness among, you know, my fellow pro-life activists that it's not enough for us to be pro-birth. We have to be pro-life and have a holistic pro-life ethic. And that means we care for both the child and the mother. It means that, you know, we... we don't see abortion as an isolated clinical procedure but often representative of a family in crisis. And we have a responsibility to throw a life raft, if you will, of resources and care to everyone involved.

HM: Most global health organizations like the World Health Organization do see abortion as a basic medical need. So why do you say it isn't?

RM: Well, I think anything that… that takes the life of the… you know, the innocent life of someone else cannot be considered health care. Again, I think that's one of the biggest lies that the entire abortion industry is built upon. And, you know, the Roe v Wade decision really fostered a culture of death in our country nearly 50 years ago. And what we've been advocating for is saying we need to establish a culture of life. And so, I hope that a reversal of the Roe v Wade decision will allow us to… to make a significant advance in a culture of life and combat the lie that abortion is health care.

HM: Do you worry that abortions won't end if they're made illegal, but that they will just become more dangerous for women?

RM: You know, I am focused on the fact that millions of innocent lives will be saved. I realize that we live in fallen… in a fallen world, and it will never be. These injustices will never be completely eradicated.

HM: So are you suggesting that those deaths are justified if they stop abortions?

RM: Every death is lamentable and is cause for grief and anguish. And we have to... again, when we look at building a culture of life, we have to take a holistic approach to that and look at, you know, solutions that care for both the mother and child. But the reality is, you know, the vast majority of abortions happen because women find themselves in an unplanned pregnancy or for convenience reasons. They believe that they don't have the resources or don't want to make the sacrifice or decisions to take care of that child. And I think this decision will be a significant step where we can… you know, it'll go back to the states, and we can work towards practical solutions, so women don't feel forced into that dilemma.

HM: The heartbeat law that you lobbied for in Georgia would ban abortions after six weeks, except in cases of rape or incest, and if a police report is filed. It's been stalled because of some legal challenges. What do you hope will happen if Roe v Wade is indeed overturned after the justices vote?

RH: Well, I hope my home state and many other states, many states did pass the heartbeat bill. There were different versions of it. I'm personally against exceptions because I believe, again, life… life begins at conception. And so, I hope that when it goes back to the states, and my state included, that we will have strong legislation that does make abortion illegal. And I hope that churches and individuals and those of us who've been in this space for a long time will continue to put our money where our mouth is, so to speak, and make caring for vulnerable women and children even more of a priority, and offer support towards life-giving options.

HM: Let me just clarify when you say you oppose exceptions, you oppose exceptions, even in the case of rape or incest, and even if the victims are minors?

RH: I do oppose exceptions for rape and incest. Yes, because I don't believe that changes when life begins.

HM: You have used the term culture of life. What does this mean for babies who are born unwanted?

RM: Well, I think… I think it's tragic that a child would be born unwanted and rejected. But I also know that there is an estimated, you know, close to two million families in the U.S. who are looking to adopt. You know, it's estimated that I think close to 75% of women who get abortions already have children and are concerned about taking care of yet another child. And so we have to look at that. We have to look at what financial resources are we making available to them? What about things like maternity leave? And, you know, we have to go back to the drawing board on a lot of that.

HM: But there's no evidence that anybody has the wherewithal to want to implement those things. I mean, people have been fighting for those things on… I guess, certainly on the other side of the political spectrum for years, and it hasn't happened. What evidence do you have that people will step up and want to spend that money and make those efforts to help those poor families?

RM: I see evidence of that every day. And I'm not even in this as a profession. You know, I'm an advocate and an activist because I care deeply about this. But it's certainly not my career. But I encounter people, everyday individuals and institutions. And when we talk about resources, it's not just government resources. I think that's part of it. And I think, again, we have to take a holistic look at how we can best support vulnerable women and children. But it's also… we look at private solutions, and we're seeing tremendous strides in that area. I think there's a lot even of wanting to hold ourselves and our own movement accountable and saying, are we… are we actually pro-life, or is that just a political talking point wedge issue that we pull out during election years? And so, I think there's many reasons to be hopeful.

HM: Ms. Malhotra, thank you for speaking with us again today.

RM: Thank you. I appreciate… um, appreciate the opportunity.

HM: All right. Goodbye.

RM: Goodbye.

CH: We reached Ruth Malhotra in Atlanta, Georgia. And later in the program, we'll hear an interview from our archives with the owner of the Mississippi abortion clinic at the heart of the draft Supreme Court decision.

[Music: Instrumental]

Windsor River Otter

Guest: Eric Ste-Marie

CH: Last week, Windsor PhD student Eric Ste-Marie went for a walk along the Detroit River by the Ambassador Bridge -- an area he's visited often during the pandemic, to get some fresh air. And by this point, he's familiar with the wildlife he sees along the way. But on that walk last week, Mr. Ste-Marie saw an animal that got him running to catch a better glimpse. We reached biologist Eric Ste-Marie in Windsor, Ontario.

HM: Eric, as you were walking along the river, when did you first notice something unusual?

ERIC STE-MARIE: Yes, I was walking with my partner along the river before work last week, and I saw something in the water that kind of was floating there. It looked kind of dark brown and maybe furry. So, my first thought was that maybe it was a mink or a muskrat, which you can kind of see more often in this area. But as we got closer, I realized it was too big to be either of those. And also, as it dove, you could see that its tail wasn't flattened like it… like it would be if it was a beaver. So, that really left only otters as… as the option. So I got really excited. My partner and I were jumping up and down with excitement. I quickly grabbed my phone to start filming it and then realized that it was swimming towards the Ambassador Bridge. And there's a little kind of outpost that you can walk down to under the bridge. And it looked like the otter was going to cross right with the end of that walkway. So, I sprinted with my partner about a few hundred yards to get to the end of that thing. And the otter ended up coming out of the water just feet away from where we were. So, it was a really special experience.

HM: Otters are charming, clever, really fun creatures. I think a lot of people enjoy seeing them. But why were you so excited at this particular moment?

ESM: Yeah. I mean, I never thought it was even an option to see a river otter in the Detroit River. The Detroit River obviously has been historically quite polluted. So, I didn't think an animal like an otter, which can be sensitive to pollution in its environment, would… would be seen in this area. But I guess I was wrong.

HM: Did you know how very rare it was, this find?

ESM: No. So, I knew it was probably rare, but I didn't know how rare until I got home and started doing a bit of research. I came across an article by John Hartig, a researcher at the Great Lakes Institute for Environmental Research here in Windsor, and the title of that blog post or article was that "Dr. Hartig is hopeful that one day, river otters may return to the Detroit River". So, I saw that and I was like, oh my, that's too perfect to pass up on. So I emailed him a copy of that article and then a copy of my video with the subject line being "An otter in the Detroit River".

HM: How did he react?

ESM: He was ecstatic. At first, by email. He emailed me back, really excited. We exchanged contact information, and then we got to talk on the phone. He did a bunch more digging than I did. He went out and talked to otter researchers at the Detroit Zoo, local historians, to kind of get an idea of when otters were last seen in the area. And so, that's when we really started to realize that this was actually quite a special encounter.

HM: What did you learn? I mean, when was the last time orders were prevalent in that area?

ESM: Apparently, it hasn't been documented in the area for nearly 100 years, which is pretty crazy. I think originally, they were extirpated from the area due to excessive fur trapping by European settlers. And then through the 20th century, with all the industry in the area and pollution, it made it kind of impossible for them to return to the area until apparently recently.

HM: So, you… you got this on video, which of course, is proof of what you saw. But have there been any other anecdotal sightings?

ESM: Yeah. So, I've heard a few people have apparently seen otters, but without photos. I'm sure someone, even on the day I saw the otter, must have seen it as well. It was a gorgeous morning, and there's tons of people fishing along the Detroit River all the time. So, someone else must have seen it as well. I guess they either just didn't take a photo or maybe didn't realize what it was exactly they were looking at.

HM: Lucky you're a biologist, huh?

ESM: [chuckle] Yeah, I guess so. I don't work with otters, but I do spend a lot of time outdoors in this area, so I am familiar with what we've got.

HM: So, what does this potentially say about the state of the Detroit River right now?

ESM: Yeah, I mean, it's really a hopeful sign that the Detroit River is getting cleaner and that the ecosystem is starting to heal. So, if we're seeing… the otters are really just the tip of the iceberg. So, if the water is clean enough for otters to come back, it means that the rest of the ecosystem must be doing well also. So hopefully, we'll see other species come back to the Detroit River as it continues to get cleaner, thanks to local efforts by groups here in Windsor and across the border in Detroit.

HM: Have you been looking out for this otter ever since?

ESM: Oh, yeah, and I think I will for the rest of my time here in Windsor. Every time I'm walking by the river, I'll be scanning, hopeful that I'll see another otter and hopefully his friends as well.

HM: It's amazing. Now, what happens to this picture you took? Are you… you're going to frame it yourself?

ESM: [laughing] I have it memorialized on my social media right now, but maybe I should have it developed and put on my wall.

HM: People just love otters, don't they?

ESM: Yeah. I mean, what's not to love about them? They're so, so adorable.

HM: Yeah, I agree. Well, it's been nice to talk to you, and it's lovely to hear some… some good environmental news. Thank you so much.

ESM: You're welcome.

HM: Bye.

CH: That was University of Windsor PhD student Eric Ste-Marie in Windsor, Ontario.

[Music: Instrumental]

Destroyer Bus Driver Destroys Bus

[sc]

MAN: Okay. So first of all, preparation, what's the best way we can prepare ourselves for the driving test? Well, obviously, we need a good night's sleep. So there's no sitting on your PlayStation until 2 o’clock in the morning, anything like that. Get a good night's sleep. Make sure we turn up to the test centre nice and early. By getting there nice and early, you’re not rushing around. You've got time to sit down, focus, get yourself in the zone, so to speak.

[/sc]

CH: Sorry, just a sec. Let me just hit pause here. "Get...yourself...in the...zone...so...to...speak." Okay, great. Sorry, I'm just taking some notes here from a video called "How to Pass Your Bus Driving Test". It's obviously a British video, but buses are buses, right? I'll just watch the rest of this and submit my application. And cross my fingers that the job of driving a tour bus for the band Destroyer is still open. We don't have a lot of details about what happened; all we know comes from this tweet from Toronto musician Joseph Shabason. Yesterday, he wrote: "Does anyone know a licensed tour bus driver who wants three weeks of work in North America starting immediately? My pals in Destroyer are stranded after their tour bus driver, who only had three days' experience, crashed their bus twice and got fired." That is not great. And no offence to that poor driver, but I'm going to suggest they forgot a key rule that experts like us always keep in mind, which is that you have to get yourself in the zone, so to speak. Because if you're out of the zone, you apparently become such a liability that you get fired in North Carolina, in the middle of a tour, even when the band has no other driver lined up. Now, of course, we all hope Destroyer has already found some way to get to tomorrow night's show. But if not, give me a call. I'm prepared to get in the zone. And I promise to take care of bus-ness.

[music: Fuzzy guitar riff]

Part 2: Redefining The Second, Maud Lewis On Auction

Redefining The Second

Guest: Scott Beattie

CH: The International Bureau of Weights and Measures, based just outside Paris, France, may sound like something out of a Wes Anderson movie. But it is a real, and crucial thing: the global body in charge of making sure all units of measure match up. And now, from its presumably perfectly symmetrical headquarters, the IBWM has announced that it's working on a major project: redefining exactly what the unit of time known as a second means. That doesn't mean the second is getting any longer or shorter. The duration will stay exactly the same. But what a second means, and how precisely we can subdivide that unit of measure, well, that is in for a bit of a revamp. Scott Beattie is one of Canada's official timekeepers. He's a Research Officer with the Frequency and Time team at the Metrology Research Centre of the National Research Council in Ottawa.

HM: Scott, you are one of the people in charge of Canada's most advanced clocks. Give us a snapshot, please, of… of what the clocks you work with actually look like?

SCOTT BEATTIE: Sure. So I mostly work with a clock called our cesium fountain clock. But we do have other atomic clocks in our group as well -- optical atomic clocks. But generally, these clocks look like big, sprawling apparatuses that will take up a fair-sized lab. So, you'll have an optics table that might be two by eight metres filled with optics and lasers and mirrors and fibre optic cables, vacuum systems, pumps, magnetic shielding, computers to control it all. So, it doesn't look anything like a clock that you would imagine.

HM: We think of time as being measured in relation to the Earth's rotation. So, 24 hours is supposed to be one rotation of the Earth on its axis. But the kind of clocks that you are describing measure time entirely differently, as I understand it. What… what exactly is it that you are measuring?

SB: Sure. So, you're right. Time, naturally, we think of the Earth as a reference or astronomical observations. And that… that has been the reference for a long time. But in the sixties, that changed. And it's because, at that point, we were able to measure time more accurately using atoms. And the basic idea is that clocks all work on the same sort of idea where you find something we call an oscillator that has a very stable and repetitive behaviour, and then you just count those repetitions. And so, a good oscillator is the earth spinning or could be a pendulum or a quartz crystal. But because of quantum mechanics, atoms themselves actually are excellent oscillators. They only want to react to very specific frequencies of electromagnetic radiation. So, in atomic clocks, what we're doing is using atoms as basically very accurate tuning forks. And then, we're just counting the oscillations of that electromagnetic radiation. So now, instead of getting, you know, a rotation a day, we're counting 10 billion takes per second for, say, a cesium clock.

HM: So, just to make sure that I'm getting this straight, the idea is that the Earth's rotation isn't exactly reliable, but the reverberations of the atom always stay the same. And so, that's a more accurate measure of time?

SB: That's right. So, Earth's rotation does speed up and slow down slightly. It's generally slowing down due to tidal locking and things like this and just losing energy. But the atoms keep ticking at the same rate. And also, atoms are really an excellent candidate for a definition or a standard because they're all identical of… you know, atoms of a particular isotopic species all behave in an indistinguishable way. So, we can have lots of clocks that we know should give us exactly the same answer. And that's really, really power from… powerful from a measurement point of view.

HM: So… so why do scientists need to be working now on a new definition of the second?

SB: Well, the idea is that just like in the last redefinition, we've got new technology that's outpaced the definition. So, the current definition we… we rely on cesium. And our best clocks measuring with cesium can measure to about 16 decimal places, which is very good. It's, you know, a clock started with the dinosaurs would still be within a second. But we have other clocks measuring different atoms that are now a hundred times better than that. But because the definition of the second is in terms of cesium, those clocks aren't measuring the second and can't measure it any better than we can do with cesium.

HM: So, basically, my… my producer suggests we might think of it as that ruler marked in centimetres. Now, we would be moving to something where we'd be able to have a ruler marked in millimetres?

SB: Yeah, something like that. That's a… that's a good way to think about it. So, we're moving down a couple of orders of magnitude or a factor of hundred. Because basically, we're measuring at a higher frequency. So more ticks per second, which gives you a more accurate clock, essentially.

HM: I guess a bigger question is why we need to do this. Why is that type of precision even necessary? Breaking down a second to a billion little pieces.

SB: Sure. Yeah. And I mean, the… the simple answer for… for day-to-day life is for… for most things, you don't. You know, a few seconds or even a few minutes really doesn't probably matter for almost any aspect of your life. But the world has more automation and synchronization all the time, and it ranges from finance to energy grids. And they're always demanding higher and higher timing accuracy. But really immediately, fundamental research -- searches for things like dark matter, gravitational waves. people have lots of ideas to use super-accurate clocks to do this, and they would like even more accuracy of possible. But the most… the most practical and immediate one that probably everyone really has used is GPS or global navigation and positioning. Because to… to find your position, just when you pull out your smartphone, you're actually using information from atomic clocks that are up in satellites orbiting the Earth. And the more accurate we can make those clocks, the more accurate the positioning.

HM: This is an ongoing process, right? I'm wondering, as we look forward, to what degree do you expect to be able to break down one second into smaller and smaller units?

SB: Well, the choice of what exactly the next definition will be hasn't been made yet. There are several candidates of different atoms and things that… ions that could potentially be a great definition. And so, there's lots of work ongoing to pick exactly what it will be. But certainly, it can get down to parts and 10 to 18 or, you know, basically not lose a second in the age of the universe. And they'll almost certainly pick something where there's room for that to improve further. So that it's not limited by any fundamental issues. And it could continue to get better down to maybe parts and 10 to the 20 or better. And so, there really isn't a clear limit of how far it can improve at the moment.

HM: I won't pretend that I understand the nuances of all of this, but for you as a scientist, what is so fascinating about this challenge?

SB: Well, if you sort of step back and think about what we're doing, we're able to take these little blocks of matter, building blocks of matter, that have been, you know, swirling around the universe for billions of years. And that's what we're able to use to measure our seconds and minutes and years. So, I think it's pretty amazing.

HM: It does sound amazing and quite impressive, too. Scott, thank you so much.

SB: Oh, well, thanks for having me.

HM: All right. Bye-bye.

SB: Bye.

CH: Scott Beattie is a Research Officer with the National Research Council. He's in Ottawa.

[Music: Tense instrumental]

FOA: SCOTUS Roe V Wade

CH: At the centre of the pending Supreme Court decision on Roe v. Wade, which you heard about earlier in the program, is a little pink building in Jackson, Mississippi. The Jackson Women's Health Organization is the Mississippi's last abortion clinic. In 2018, it sued the state -- arguing that a newly-passed state law that blocked abortion after 15 weeks was unconstitutional. That case worked its way up through the courts, and now, the U.S.Supreme Court appears poised to uphold the Mississippi law at its centre, and overturn Roe v. Wade. In December, our former host Carol Off spoke with the owner of the Jackson Women's Health Organization, Diane Derzis, about the law her clinic was challenging. Here is part of their conversation, from our archives.

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DIANE DERZIS: It never went into effect because we were able to appeal it. And the lower court said that it... Roe v. Wade would not allow that to happen, so it didn't go into effect. But when the Texas law went into effect three months ago, we're now seeing patients five days a week, and we are bombarded because those women have no place to go.

CAROL OFF: Can you give us a sense… just your… your clinic, Jackson Women's Health Organization, this is the one that is in... is... is in front of the Supreme Court during this case.

DD: Right.

CO: And so, can you give us of a sense what it means for women in Mississippi? What exactly are they faced with if they don't have access to abortion?

DD: Mississippi is one of the poorest states in the union. It is number one in infant mortality. Number one in maternal mortality. Number one in teenage pregnancy. Number one in about every bad thing you can imagine. So you're talking about Black and Brown women and poor women who are absolutely not going to have any alternative except forced childbirth in a state that could care less about children after they're born.

CO: As... as… as you're watching the proceedings before the court right now, why... why do you believe that it's likely that Roe v. Wade itself might be overturned?

DD: comments from all of those crazy judges that have been placed on there. You know, comments that it's, you know, it's not a big deal for a woman to carry a pregnancy to term. She can always give it up for adoption. As a woman, you and I both know it's not quite that easy. Comments that birth control is readily available and not that expensive. You know, and when... when Justice Kavanaugh made the statement that it was so difficult to look at the, you know, look at the varying rights of the fetus versus that of the woman. You know, we've... we've talked about this for the last 25 years. We've... but to actually find yourself here is just unbelievable.

CO: If that doesn't happen. If Roe v. Wade is overturned, where do the women go for abortions who are seeking abortions in your clinic?

DD: That's something that we're going to start working on immediately, finding ways for those women to access. But, you know, you're... you're... you're talking about something that every state in the South would primarily lose. You'd lose Texas, Oklahoma, Arizona. I mean, you know, you're talking about losing three-quarters of the states in the nation. So, that makes it a very narrow... I think you're going to have to see women come together and help other women get whatever it is they need. Those of us who've been providing services all these years, we're not going anywhere. We're going to help these women do what it takes to get them the services they need. So, I guess our... our outlook is going to have to change, and we're going to have to figure out a new way to get around what has been placed in front of us.

[/sc]

CH: That was Carol speaking with Diane Derzis, owner of the Jackson Women's Health Organization -- the last abortion clinic in the state of Mississippi.

[Music: Light rock]

Maud Lewis On Auction

Guest: Irene Demas

CH: Irene Demas and her husband, Tony, opened their restaurant in London, Ontario, in 1973. And along with the regular customers who stopped in for a quick bite were a number of more irregular customers. One of whom was artist John Kinnear, who would trade the couple his work for their grilled cheese sandwiches. But one day, he came in with someone else's art -- a set of paintings with bright colours and a simple, straightforward style. The Demas family kept one of those paintings for nearly 50 years. They're now putting it up for auction. And it's expected to fetch a hefty sum -- because that painting is by Nova Scotia folk artist Maud Lewis. We reached Irene Demas in Lucan, Ontario, near London.

HM: Irene, have you always been a fan of the work of Maud Lewis?

IRENE DEMAS: Well, not really. I didn't know much about Maud Lewis before we acquired the paintings, so. And it was just by chance that we did acquire it.

HM: Right.

ID: And… but I have been a fan of it for the last 50 years. And when it was presented, John Kinner was… was a customer of ours. And we collected his paintings. And the first painting that we got, we… we… were trading lunch for paintings. [both chuckle] And his favourite lunch was grilled cheese sandwiches. He never ate anything else but grilled cheese sandwiches. And every day, John and his wife Audrey would come in. Somehow, my husband made a deal with them that instead of them paying for their lunch, we would do exchange for his art. My very favourite was the Jumbo, the elephant that was killed outside of Saint Thomas. He did a magnificent watercolour of it. So one day, John brought some new paintings. There were just boards, paintings on boards. Nothing… it wasn't framed or anything. And… and my husband, Tony, says, well, there they are. Pick which ones do you want. And I… at first, I thought, are they playing a joke on me? Because --

HM: Because they were so different.

ID: They were so different from the animals that John painted and the scenery and watercolours. And he did some silver points. And I thought somebody's child did this. [laughing]

HM: Because, you know, we should… in case people aren't familiar with Maud Lewis, I mean, she… she had a very primitive style. She was a folk artist. So, part of the charm of them, I guess, is that they do have a childlike quality?

ID: Yes. Yes. And, you know, and this was in the seventies, and I was in… I was barely 20 at that time, I think. And so, I didn't really know much about art. I knew what I liked. We liked the old style, the oils. And… and this was just so different from anything that we've ever seen, so.

HM: So, why did you choose the one of the truck over the other ones that he showed you that day?

ID: I was pregnant at that time. And I thought, well, you know, this will look good in a boys bedroom.

HM: Is that where it ended up?

ID: That's where it ended up. It ended up in our son's bedroom.

HM: Wow!

ID: And it was there till he went off to university. And then it just stayed there in our guest room and we just kind of forgot about it for a number of years.

HM: Describe the painting for us. What does it look like?

ID: It is a painting of a little black truck with a house in the horizon and some daffodils in the field. And… and a spruce tree. Very bright. Very happy. What makes this little piece… and anything that she sent to John was really special. It was… it was done right. And we acquired three letters from him. And in the letters, she thanks him for the boards and describes how busy she is.

HM: And are you selling the letters along with the painting?

ID: They're coming up with… in the same auction, but being sold separately.

HM: Now, how does your family feel about, you know, giving up the painting and the letters after all these years?

ID: Well, we talked to our son, and he… both our children encouraged us to put it up for sale and just take the money and enjoy it.

HM: Do you have plans for that money?

ID: We have a home in Greece. My husband has his childhood home in Greece. And we… since we retired from the restaurant business, we've been spending most summers there.

HM: Mm-hmm.

ID: And we have quite a big home now that we're downsizing, and we just want to enjoy life. My husband's going to be 90 this New Year's Eve coming.

HM: Wow!

ID: And we… we just want to, you know, enjoy the rest of our life. I mean, with certainly what has happened the last couple of years, you know, with COVID and that, you kind of sit back and take stock of everything and see what's important. And it's just stuff. We have… we have 50 years of… that we've collected art and things. And I think it's just time to let go of it.

HM: I hate to be crude enough to mention money, but can you tell us what the estimate is for the painting?

ID: Um, they're estimating between $30,000 and $35,000.

HM: Hmm.

ID: But we hope that it will break all records. Because, like I said, it's a very unique piece. And from what I was told, she did a lot of repetition of the cats and cows and deer in the field, but there's only been a couple of trucks. This is the first time the black truck has come up. And I don't know where another truck is, but what Mr. Deacon told me was that as far as he knows, she only did two paintings of the black truck.

HM: Wow! I have to say, that's a lot of grilled cheese sandwiches.

ID: [laughing] Well, they were just, you know, grilled cheese. It wasn't your orange cheese slices.

HM: Oh, it wasn't those plastic-wrapped slices?

ID: They were gourmet grilled cheese sandwiches. You know, this… we're going back in the seventies, and people were still eating the… the Kraft slices as a grilled cheese. But my grilled cheese sandwich was a five-year-old cheddar on nice fresh-baked bread, so. [chuckling]

HM: I bet every time you make a grilled cheese sandwich going forward, you're going to think about that painting some more and the money that you're getting from it. [both chuckle]

ID: Yes, from now on. Yes, definitely.

HM: [chuckling] Well, good luck with the auction, and thank you for telling us the story. It's a charming and fun story. I appreciate it. Enjoy your time in Greece.

ID: Thank you so much.

HM: Nice to talk to you, Irene. Bye-bye.

ID: Bye-bye.

CH: That was Irene Demas, a former restaurant owner who is selling her rare Maud Lewis painting. We reached her in Lucan, near London, Ontario.

[Music: Saucy piano and violin]

Golfer Period

CH: Lydia Ko is the world Number Three golfer right now, and a 17-time LPGA Tour champion. So she gets a lot of praise for her skill. And now, she's also being praised for her frankness. Midway through the final round of a tournament in Los Angeles on Sunday, Ms. Ko's physiotherapist helped her stretch out her back. And afterwards, Golf Channel commentator Jerry Foltz asked her about that:

[sc]

JERRY FOLTZ: You asked for Chris Wicker to come out and give you a little physical therapy as well. Is that a concern moving forward?

LYDIA KO: I hope not. It's that time of the month. I know the ladies watching [chuckling] are probably like, yeah, I got you. [laughing] So, when that happens, I… my back gets really tight and I'm all twisted. And it's not the first time that Chris has seen me twisted, but I felt a lot better after he came. So, yeah. There you go. [chuckling]

JF: [the guy chuckle. Come on, we all know the one] Thanks.

LK: I know you're lost for words, Jerry.

[/sc]

CH: New Zealand golfer Lydia Ko speaking to the Golf Channel's Jerry Foltz about her period. A lot of women in the sports world are welcoming Ms. Ko's openness about her period and its affect on her game. And despite her back pain, she finished second at the tournament, two strokes behind the winner.

[Music: Instrumental]

Part 3: Dublin Mystery Cakes, Wicked Bible

Fogo Island No Doctor

CH: Apples have nothing to do with it, but something is keeping the doctors away from Fogo Island, Newfoundland and Labrador. The island's last doctor will be closing his practice in June. It's another symptom of a growing shortage of doctors across the province. And it means any type of hospital admission on the island is no longer possible. Islanders already wary of taking the day-long ferry excursion to Gander worry that people in need of emergency care will be in dire straits. Andrew Shea is the mayor of the town of Fogo Island.

[sc]

ANDREW SHEA: I tell you, it's going to be pretty scary. People are going to die on account of this, number one, no question. People are going to die. Well, if you've got no one at the hospital and you had a heart attack and the van goes down to Gander, which is 35 kilometres on the ferry, they'll go down and pick you up, take you to the ferry, maybe call in the ferry crew in the middle of the night, an hour across the run and and hour to Gander? People are going to die. You don't think you gotta get care, right? And you see it advertised on TV. It tells you it's important if you having a stroke get this done right away. So if there's nobody here, and there's an emergency, if you get a call for an ambulance, the ambulance don't go to the hospital. She goes directly to the ferry. Now, the ferry could be on the other side. If it’s in the the night and they have to get the crew in. You know, we had an incident on Saturday where there was two emergency trips completely destroying our schedule. So I can't see how the service is going to get done here on Fogo Island. Because we're going to totally disrupt our ferry service, and we're going to totally disrupt our medical service. Because we got some nurses leaving that, you know, we got to senior nurses leaving. We got two or three taking maternity leave. And we got other people that's going to take leave and it seems like they're not being replaced.

GARRET BARRY: How long does it take to call the ferry.

AS: Depends, I guess, on the weather and the time. But anyway, it’s not calling them in? But then when they're called in, then they don't go to work the next morning because the gotta have so many hours rest. So when someone comes in the night, they wouldn't… last night they were called in, the ferry didn't leave till 8:30, which was 7 o’clock she’s supposed to leave. So that means everybody's appointments in Gander were gone. Or if you had a flight to Alberta. A lot of people work in Alberta, you lose your flight. So, this has… this has got a lot of effects besides just our health care because there are a lot of effects on everything. You know, you go back to 1792 and you can have a doctor here. And now, we're back into 2022, we can’t get a doctor. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense.

[/sc]

CH: That's Mayor Andrew Shea of Fogo Island in Newfoundland and Labrador, speaking with the CBC's Garrett Barry.

[Music: Sad piano]

Dublin Mystery Cakes

Guests: Hazel Carmichael, Carolina Malagon

CH: For years, Bewley's Café in Dublin, Ireland, served something called a "Mary Cake". A confection of sponge cake and chocolate filling encased in even more chocolate and topped with a disc of marzipan. But after a change of ownership and renovations, the recipe for the Mary Cake was lost. And for 20 years, it was nothing more than a memory. Then the granddaughter of the original owner of Bewley's set out to recreate the recipe. Her quest led her to discover that the baker who introduced the treat to Dublin had travelled to Ireland as a refugee. Henry Spelter fled Budapest after the Soviet tanks rolled in to put down the Hungarian Revolution of 1956. So, she made contact with the chef's granddaughter, Carolina Malagon, who's now living in New York. And working together, the two granddaughters have brought the Mary Cake back to life. We reached Hazel Carmichael -- the granddaughter of the bakery owner -- in Galway, Ireland, and Carolina Malagon -- the granddaughter of the baker -- in Brooklyn.

HM: Carolina, your grandfather ended up emigrating to the United States. What do you know about his time in Dublin and his connection to the Bewley family?

CAROLINA MALAGON: My grandparents and their three young children, they left Hungary in 1956. They were escaping the Soviet army. They walked over a minefield border. They had next to nothing. And they ended up in a pretty desolate refugee camp. My grandfather had to barter her wedding ring to get some fruit. So when an Irish delegation came and offered to take families, they said yes, but they spoke no English. They had no direct connections. They had no prospects. And it was through the generosity of a total stranger that my grandfather was able to get an interview with the Bewleys and ultimately to work for them. You know, as Quakers, the Bewley family had historically fled persecution, and there was an openness and a willingness to create a safe space for refugees and to listen to them. And that's really remarkable. Alfred Bewley, who ran the bakery, asked my grandfather to share samples of his craft in the afternoons, and it was one of those samples that became what is now the Mary Cake.

HM: Hazel, before you made contact with Carolina, did you have any idea what your grandfather's bakery meant to her grandfather?

HAZEL CARMICHAEL: Not at all. This was an entirely new story for me. Sadly, in the process of change of ownership of Bewley's, a lot of the original recipes were lost. So, I started my research by talking to my mother and my mother's generation, asking if they had any memories of that time? And they did remember that there was a Hungarian baker who made these wonderful confections, who were brought home to their family, and they tasted as children. And they still have remarkable memories because they were so different from anything they had tasted before. And one of these was the prototype for the Mary Cake.

HM: So, Hazel, once you and Carolina connected online, how did you set out to recreate the recipe?

HC: My relatives gave me the name of Henry Spelter, who is the Hungarian baker. And I found a picture of somebody called Henry Spelter that looked about the right age. It actually spoke of his time working in Bewley's and working for my grandfather. And that was quite a magical moment. So, I discovered this was the Henry Spelter I was looking for. But sadly, it was an obituary. He had actually passed away eight days previously.

HM: Oh dear!

HC: And this is how I found him. If the obituary hadn't been there, I would never have made this connection. And the story between Carolina and myself would not have come about. But I left a very carefully worded message of condolence, which Carolina and her family read a little later, and that's how I reached out to them.

HM: Carolina, when you… when you heard that message, tell me what went through your mind?

CM: I was shocked. My grandfather never spoke about his baking. He was, in fact, perhaps a little ashamed of it. I think he… he wasn't used to it being heard or recognized as something. And so, to see this connection and to see that his work was not only valued but living on, and that people were interested in finding out about his life was, for us… it was a big moment for us because we just lost him, and it was giving us a chance to continue to be with him in that way.

HM: And Carolina, also, when you think about it, it's almost like an echo of the past. Your two families coming together with the idea of creating something together.

CM: Absolutely. This is a cake that there's like no text for it. There's no original recipe. My grandfather didn't write down the Mary Cake recipe in the books that we have. It was a collaborative product that came… came about through listening, sharing experiences. And in this conversation… these conversations with Hazel reconstructing the recipe, it came together through all of our families, sharing memories, looking at pictures, association spark, hunting in one direction, and then the other until we finally were able to find the elements that brought it all together.

HM: Lovely. Now, Carolina, you travelled to meet with Hazel in Dublin not long ago. Did you get a taste of Hazel's recreation of the Mary Cake?

CM: I did. Hazel made a special Mary Cake that was actually specially made just for the day that I'd come. And what was extraordinary to me was to see this cake, and to try it, and already feel that connection to my grandfather. I could just taste it. I could sense it. There's this, like, intangible knowledge that you have even before you've taken a bite of something, just in the way that your fork starts to hit it and the sound that it makes. And I could… I could… It just reminded me so much of what he used to make.

HM: Hazel, I understand you want a portion of the profits from the cake sales to go to the Red Cross right now?

HC: Indeed. I felt that this recipe was given to my family, to Bewley's, by Henry Spelter. The recipe was lost. And it was given again by Carolina to me. And we worked on it together. And I felt the most appropriate thing to bring the stories full circle. It would be lovely if something could be given back to refugees. So we are both thrilled that Bewley's have decided that they are going to donate €1 for every Mary Cake sold to support the Red Cross to help their work with supporting Ukrainian refugees in Ireland. And the Red Cross were the group that helped the group of Hungarian refugees that came to Ireland in 1956. It has just… just wonderfully brought the whole story full circle.

HM: Carolina, what do you think your grandfather would think of all of this?

CM: He would be so shocked. And also, overjoyed. He believed and hoped very much for a world in which, no matter our differences, we could come together in unity. And he believed very much in treating others the way one would want to be treated oneself. And to see his own work supporting other refugees, I think he'd, first of all, be surprised. And second, just humbled beyond belief.

HM: Well, it's a wonderful effort. And I thank you both for sharing the story with us. Bye-bye to both of you.

CM: Goodbye.

HC: Bye.

CH: Hazel Carmichael and Carolina Malagon are, respectively, the granddaughters of bakery owner Victor Bewley and baker Henry Spelter. We reached Ms. Carmichael in Galway, Ireland and Ms. Malagon in Brooklyn.

[Music: Ambient]

AB John A. School Renamed

CH: If a school board is dedicated to reconciliation, having a school named after one of the architects of the residential school system seems like a mistake. That's what Makena Halvorsen figured. And now, the Grade 8 student's efforts have prompted the Calgary Board of Education to review the name of Sir John A, MacDonald Junior High. Makena Halvorsen explained her campaign.

[sc]

MAKENA HALVORSEN: So last year, it kind of started around the time when the 215 Indigenous graves were found. So, my teacher had us do two assignments. One was an infograph looking at the different perspectives and worldviews of Sir John A. McDonald. And the second one was writing an essay on why we should or should not change the name. So, I decided to write an essay on I should change the name, and… but other people could say why they shouldn't. So, we basically had our own choice on what we could write about.

DAVID GRAY: So, Makena, what was it about the actions of Sir John A. McDonald that made you think that perhaps the school should not carry his name?

MH: Well, for the infograph, I looked at it, and I started off with how he united Canada and built the railway. But if you look at it in a different way, when he built the railway, 600 Chinese labourers died building it under harsh conditions and little pay. And it was broken on broken treaty land throughout Canada. And so, he would force Indigenous people to go to residential schools. And so, just looking at it, to me, it looks like the negative outweighed the positive.

DG: Well, it can be a hard sell to ask people to see the difference between learning about historical figures and learning about their complexities and then extending that to calling for the name being removed from a school. How have you dealt with that?

MH: It's been okay. It's still… since we're a little bit younger, we don't necessarily know all about it, or we don't have a side that we actually are on. So, I feel like when I'm trying to change the name of the school, I want lots of discussions and why I want to change the school so then people can understand.

[/sc]

CH: Grade 8 student Makena Halvorsen telling CBC host David Gray about the efforts to get the name of Sir John A. MacDonald Junior High in Calgary changed.

[Music: ambient]

Guy Lafleur Funeral

CH: He went by many names, all of them spoken or shouted in awe: The Flower, the Blond Demon, Guy! Guy! Guy! And today, in Montreal, the legendary Guy Lafleur was laid to rest. In the pews were politicians and players, friends and family. And, in a tribute that was especially fitting for Mr. Lafleur, 100 fans chosen from the thousands who gathered outside to honour the Montreal Canadiens #10. Geoff Molson, the president and chief executive officer of the Canadiens, was just one of the many who paid tribute to Guy Lafleur.

[sc]

GEOFF MOLSON: When LaFleur walked into a room, jaws dropped. Cameras came out for selfies. And people immediately started searching for sharpies and a piece of paper for his autograph. And there was never a time when anyone in that room didn't get that selfie or that signature. [long pause] Everyone would leave with expectations met, but Guy made an ever… even greater impact in the room. People realized that he was not only a superstar, Hall of Fame hockey player but also a warm, humble, and normal human being with an outstanding sense of humour. While people asked him questions about his illustrious career, he happily shared stories, told jokes, and laughed out loud with people he hadn't known just minutes before. A man who had time for anyone and everyone. People not only left that room with a smile, but a special memory of someone who went above and beyond every time for everyone. I think the one reason people trusted Guy so much was because he always told you exactly what he was thinking. He never beat around the bush. He never used cliches. He went straight to what he was really thinking. He just spoke from his heart. And his heart was passionate. [pause] When he spoke, he meant it. And although his comments could be hard to take at times, he was usually right, always honest, and this is what Quebeckers love so much about Guy Lafleur.

[/sc]

CH: That was Geoff Molson, the president and chief executive officer of the Montreal Canadiens, speaking today at the funeral for hockey legend Guy Lafleur.

[Music: Ambient]

Wicked Bible

Guest: Chris Jones

CH: This next story is to be missed. A New Zealand professor is… wait, just a second. What did I say? Did I say this story is not to be missed? That's what I meant. I think I forgot kind of a significant word there. Speaking of which: a New Zealand professor is ready to go public with his Wicked Bible. Now, Wicked Bibles come from a rare 17th Century printing of the Good Book that omitted that same important word. If you're familiar with Christianity's Ten Commandments, you know they're all about how thou shalt not kill, and thou shalt not steal, etc. Well, in the Wicked Bible, there's a misprint. So one commandment reads "Thou shalt commit adultery." It is pretty clear why Wicked Bibles are so rare. But in 2018, a former student brought one to Chris Jones of the University of Canterbury in Christchurch, New Zealand. And now, he's digitizing it for all to see. We reached Professor Jones in Christchurch.

[sc]

HM: Professor Jones, what was the first sign that this former student might have actually come across one of these unusual Bibles?

CHRIS JONES: Well, I received an email that sort of said something wicked this way comes, and I was sort of intrigued by that. I… you know, there's really only one thing it can refer to. But I thought this cannot possibly be the case. And then, my former student arrived in my office with this, what at first looks like a very scruffy, oversized paperback. But on opening it up, we discovered that it is exactly what she thought it was: a Wicked Bible. Very unusual and quite remarkable. At first, I couldn't quite believe it. It's not something you expect to walk into your office in a provincial New Zealand city.

HM: Well, no. And you sounded… you sounded as if you were initially skeptical until you actually saw it. So tell me what goes through you when you… you realize in that moment that this appears to be the real thing?

CJ: Well, as you say, I was extraordinarily skeptical. I couldn't quite believe it, particularly given the history the student told me around it. That… that she'd acquired it for family trust. And that is a come basically from the estate of a former Christchurch bookbinder. And I just thought this is just not something that would happen in Christchurch. But it did. And I have to say, the first time I saw it, I thought, this is the find of a lifetime. This is not something that I'm ever going to see again. I mean, you do find interesting items. But generally, if you're somewhere like Toronto, you're going into the Fisher Library, you can expect there to be things like this that you might not have encountered. And in fact, I can say the University of Toronto does have its own Wicked Bible. But up until this point, there were none in the Southern Hemisphere. And New Zealand seems the last place you would expect something like this to be. And yet, here it was.

HM: If you go into the Fisher Rare Books Library at University of Toronto, you're going to see this thing in… as well preserved as it can be. What kind of shape was this Bible in?

CJ: Well, this was not in good shape. We're not absolutely certain that the former bookbinder knew what he had. And what seems to have happened to it when it was first found is the boards were stripped off it. And it looks like it'd been started to be prepared for binding. So, it looked like he just sort of was treating it like another example of a random, poor-quality Bible. And it was not originally printed on particularly good paper. None of the 1631 Bibles are. They were cases where the printers were just trying to make a buck, basically. They were using poor-quality paper. And the… the era, the famous era for thou shalt commit adultery is probably a result of basically poor copyediting. So it wasn't in good condition.

HM: If the whole Bible is in rough shape, I guess what we need to know is what about that infamous page with the seventh commandment? Is that clear?

CJ: It is clear. And clearly, someone had noticed it as well. Because one of the things that my colleague Sarah noticed was that the cords are particularly frayed at that page. So someone has been opening it quite a lot in its lifetime to that particular page and looking at it. There are even traces of what looks like an attempt at some point in the Bible's last time to correct it. It looks like the traces of someone having tried to… to stick basically a piece of paper over the top that would have added the word not. It's no longer there, that piece of paper. But we've got those kind of traces. And that would fit with the court records of this incident. Because one of the things we know is that the publishers who were hauled into court over this and fined for it, were also given back the Bibles and told to correct them.

HM: You said that you believe this is just a case of poor copy editing, but there were lots of other sorts of speculation about how this might have come about.

CJ: The most famous of them actually can be traced back to 1958. There's a short print-run academic article in 1958 that proposes that possibly this was the result of industrial sabotage. It's an interesting theory, but I think it's a very, very unlikely theory. And that's because of the sheer number of errors that crop up in these Bibles. One contemporary estimates there was something like 20,000 errors in these Bibles. And certainly in this Bible, if you just flick to another page, you'll find chapter numbers repeating. You'll find problems all over the place. There's other print runs from 1631 with fantastic errors in them. The best one of all is one that is supposed to say the greatness of the Lord, but actually, in the print run, says the great ass of the Lord.

HM: [laughing] Oh dear!

CJ: So, you know, there are… well, exactly. [HM chuckles] And one of the other reasons I don't think it sabotage is because when the printers are hauled into court, they're sort of asked why did this happen? And they say nothing at all about sabotage. They basically try and blame it all on the workmen. They basically say, well, this is their fault. And immediately, you have archbishops saying you didn't pay attention. You're supposed to be overseeing this. Why haven't you done this properly. And you just get this impression that they are cutting corners. But this has basically happened. Probably, I think, personally, you know, you don't miss out the not without deliberate intention. So I suspect this is a typesetter somewhere who thinks this is funny, possibly, who's just missed out on the letter. But there are other cases. There's a brilliant 1612 Bible, and what it's supposed to say is princes have persecuted me. But it actually says printers have persecuted me.

HM: Oh dear!

CJ: I can't believe that sort of error isn't deliberate.

HM: [laughing] So, when will we be able to see this digital version?

CJ: Well, we've completed the digitization process. So all we need to do really is put this up online. We want to do that quite carefully because we want to build a lot of academic content around it to make it worthwhile. But for anyone who is particularly interested in the digital photographs of these particular pages or… or perhaps wants to help us out by trying to work out who owned it, because that's the other great mystery. We've got a name in it, and we don't know who this person is. It's a Madam Sweetnam, but we've no idea who she is or quite when she wrote her signature. But if people are interested, I'm happy to supply those photographs to people, and people can have a look at them.

HM: It's great that there's still mysteries to solve around this. Thank you so much.

CJ: Thank you. It's been wonderful talking to you.

HM: I've enjoyed it myself. Thanks a lot. Bye-bye.

CJ: Bye-bye.

CH: Chris Jones is a professor of medieval studies at the University of Canterbury. We reached him in Christchurch, New Zealand.

[Music: instrumental]

Floating Head Help Wanted

CH: Dartmouth's Cottage Café seems like a lovely place. Plenty of five-star reviews; fair trade coffee; farm to table food; and impressive latte art. But its owner says he's been having a hard time hiring good help. According to Danny Martin, so many Nova Scotia businesses are in the market for new staff that his want ads weren't exactly making a splash. So when one of his baristas proposed a different approach, he took the plunge. In a video posted to the café's social media accounts, Mr. Martin makes his pitch on camera. Well, his severed head does. While floating -- thanks to a carefully chosen filter -- in a toilet bowl.

[sc]

DANNY MARTIN: Hello, folks. Danny Martin here at the Cottage Café on the beautiful Lake Banook in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia. Things are really in the crapper here. We need some staff bad, so come in and apply, and I'll check you out. How does that sound?

[/sc]

CH: Danny Martin says that ever since he issued his porcelain plea, the café has been flush with resumes. And according to barista Katie Stoneman, "There were people coming in just to see the guy from the toilet. So, it stirred up some traction." All in all, the proprietor's willingness to try out new recruitment methods seems to have been an impressive display of on-the-john training. And when you consider how backed up things were getting, you can hardly blame him for taking a kick at the can. And it worked: instead of incremental progress, he has made excremental progress.

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May 03, 2022 Episode Transcript

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