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The AIH Transcript for May 2nd, 2022

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight

HM: Testing waters. It's not the first time flooding has forced hundreds of people in Peguis First Nation out of their homes -- but Chief Glenn Hudson tells us the flooding this time is especially terrible.

CH: Setting the records straight. A residential school survivor says the Archbishop of Canterbury's promise to release school documents is all well and good, but she's still waiting on the church to put its money where its mouth is.

HM: All patients are a virtue. The American Academy of Pediatrics is putting its own guidance to doctors under the microscope, in an effort to eliminate race-based medicine. And the project's head tells us change can't come soon enough.

CH: The disco belle of the disco ball, the late nightclub magnate Régine gave herself that name -- and made it synonymous with the hippest and most exclusive discotheques on Earth.

HM: Like riding a bike. A Massachusetts DoorDash worker had set aside her dream of becoming an EMT. But her training picked up right where it left off when she recently found herself delivering more than just food.

CH: And… last suppers. We'll hear from a woman who's been cooking up a unique response to some inspired inscriptions found in cemeteries -- and says recipes written in stone are typically to die for.

CH: As It Happens, the Monday edition. Radio with one food in the grave.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Peguis Flooding, Pizza Delivery Rescuer, Gravestone Recipes

Peguis Flooding

Guest: Chief Glenn Hudson

CH: There was absolutely nothing relaxing about this weekend for hundreds of members of Manitoba's largest First Nation community. The Chief and Council of Peguis Nation have issued a mandatory evacuation order, because of serious flooding in the area. In recent days, other parts of the province have seen swollen rivers cut off road access and force residents to leave their homes in a hurry. Glenn Hudson is the chief of Peguis First Nation. We reached him at the community's band office.

HM: Chief Hudson, I know that you've been receiving a lot of texts and telephone calls today. What is the mood among members of your community right now?

CHIEF GLENN HUDSON: I think people are saddened. People are upset. A variety of emotions given that our community is going through another flooding event. I know today we have well over a thousand people that have been evacuated. We had declared a mandatory evacuation back on Saturday evening and a state of emergency last Wednesday evening. We haven't experienced this type of flooding in the history of our flooding events.

HM: Hmmm. Now, you say a thousand people have been displaced. How many homes are we talking about?

CGH: We're talking about probably on the order of 200 homes that are submerged, surrounded by water directly. Another 280 to 300 down the corridor along the Fisher River, which is causing a lot of the flooding here in their area. But also, with respect to people in the outlying areas, you know, water… water has breached our provincial road in five locations, and our… many of our reserve roads have been breached as far as water flowing over them and washing them out. So, that is the reason why we had declared a mandatory evacuation, because it is a little bit difficult to be able to get around in the community, and we want to make sure of people's safety, but also that they have supply of groceries and their medications.

HM: Sure. Where are all these people staying right now?

CGH: Right now, they're located throughout the province. Majority of them are staying in Winnipeg. We have people in the smaller cities like Selkirk. I know in Gimli, we have people that are put up by one of the hotels there. So, various locations.

HM: And are any of these people especially vulnerable? Who might need extra support?

CGH: Yeah, we actually have evacuated, looking to evacuate our personal care home. And we have to look at having level four care for our elders. And we are looking to put them in another care home outside of our regions. And, you know, steps that we're taking that we have never taken before. But obviously, the utmost importance is the safety of our members and our elders.

HM: You say this is the worst flooding you've seen. And, of course, we know that Peguis has had a lot of flooding before. Tell us what you see. How bad is the scene around you?

CGH: In terms of, you know, homes being fully immersed in floodwaters, that is something that we've, you know, haven't had at that level. We have the floodwaters breaching our provincial highway and our reserve highway. And, in fact, we have water that runs right up to the foot of our… of our mall in terms of our development area. And I've never seen water that far and that high in terms of our community overall.

HM: The flooding comes days after CBC Winnipeg put out a piece about the dozens of people who are still displaced by flooding back in 2011 and 2014 in Peguis and the fact that the federal evacuee benefits have ended for most people. What kind of frustration are you hearing in your community as people are dealing with, you know, both the uncertainty about being displaced and about their… their finances?

CGH: Yeah, people are very, very frustrated. I know we've heard from many. They have no home to come home to in terms of being evacuated in 2011, 2014. I know we've had discussions with the federal government about reinstating that commitment in terms of providing housing to our… our members that have been evacuated. And that's something that we had re-engaged after probably five years of no movement on it. But the fact of the matter is, you know, people are wanting to return back to the community, and that's something we will work toward as far as dealing with the federal and provincial government.

HM: So, what are you hearing from those levels of government?

CGH: They're acknowledging the long-term flood mitigation strategy that we need to deploy. Obviously, we're seeing why we have to do it today. And that's something that, you know, we just need to sit down and work out the details on that. Initially, they… when they said they were going to cut off benefits. They've extended it out to two and three months. But obviously, to have a large number of homes that are required to have people return back, we need a longer-term strategy.

HM: What responsibility do you take as the chief for the fact that these people have been displaced for so long?

CGH: Yes, I do take that responsibility. My job is to promote and certainly make sure that these homes are provided. So, I'll share with you. Five years ago, I wasn't chief. There was a two-year hiatus that another chief was in place.

HM: So, what have you done in the last five years?

CGH: Well, we have gotten commitment to repair and bring people back home. We've probably done on the order of 15 to 20 homes. But, again, when you have a commitment of 225 homes from the federal government, you need to follow through with that. And today, we've only been given 53. So, that's something we… we continue to discuss at the federal level.

HM: The forecasts would suggest that some warmer, drier weather is on the way. Will that make much difference? Is there an expectation that some of the people who've been forced out from Peguis could possibly return soon?

CGH: Yeah, it's… you know, that's a better forecast than having rain, obviously. But with respect to people returning, it's probably going to be at least three weeks, I would say at a minimum. Because we have to assess the damage done to homes and what the repair cost is going to be in order for them to return home safely. So there is a lot of work ahead for us.

HM: Chief Hudson, thank you for taking the time to speak with us.

CGH: Yes, thank you.

HM: All right. Bye-bye.

CGH: Bye.

CH: That was Glenn Hudson, chief of Peguis First Nation -- which is 180 kilometres north of Winnipeg. That's where we reached him.

[Music: Violin]

Pizza Delivery Rescuer

Guest: Sophia Furtado

CH: There are the skills you use every day. And then there are the ones that sit in the back of your mind, waiting for their moment. And Sophia Furtado of Massachusetts isn't the only one grateful for her set of long-dormant skills. This past winter, she was working her regular shift as a DoorDash delivery driver -- when a sudden emergency forced her to draw on expertise she hadn't used for years. We reached Sophia Furtado in New Bedford, Massachusetts.

HM: Sophia, what did you see as you arrived at Karen Sullivan's home to deliver a pizza on that night back in February?

SOPHIA FURTADO: So, when I initially pulled up, I… um, I didn't see anything at first because it was blacked out, but their porch light went on. So then I seen Karen at the bottom of the steps. I kind of freaked out a little bit because I'm like, oh, my goodness. Like, someone's passed out on the bottom of the stairs! As I got closer, I noticed that she was bleeding a lot from her head. I went inside the house, and I told the husband… I think he had, like, nodded off a little bit. Just fell asleep. So, I came in frantically, telling him like, hey, your wife is at the bottom of the steps. She's in trouble; she's bleeding. So, we went outside, and I showed him his wife, and he's like, Oh my God, what do we do? What do we do? I'm like, well, first of all, we got to call the 9-1-1. So, at that point, I took out my phone. I took out my cell phone. I called 9-1-1, and I had them on speakerphone as I was telling Rob what to do. So I asked him to just go inside, get me, like, a… like, a heavy… heavyset blanket because it was 30 degrees out. It was in the middle of February when this happened. I asked him to get a towel or some sort of gauze or something to put pressure on her wound so it could stop bleeding temporarily until EMS, like, arrived.

HM: And is that what you did? Are you the one who put the pressure on?

SF: Everything that had to do with Karen, I pretty much did until the EMS… until the EMS got there and pretty much took over. So, I put pressure on her wounds to at least stop the bleeding temporarily. Because, like I said, she was bleeding a lot. There was a lot of blood on the floor.

HM: Was there any moment where you thought you might lose her?

SF: Before the EMTs got there, when I was on the phone with dispatch, and I'm looking at Karen, I was afraid, yes, at some point that I was going to lose her because her eyes were rolling back in her head. She was making snore-like noises. I had to keep yelling her name. If I took a break for a second, then her husband would be like, hey, Karen, come on, come on. Like, I tried as much as I could to keep her at least a little conscious, enough so that way the EMTs, when they came, she wasn't completely out. Because at that point, like, we were losing her. She was… she was in and out.

HM: So, this was not brand new to you. You actually trained to be an EMT four years ago. How important were those skills for you that night?

SF: Very important, I must say. I think all the skills that I learned throughout EMT school and the training definitely came in hand for that night. Because I wasn't afraid to just step in. I wasn't afraid to take care of her. Even though I didn't have the right materials to help her with, I knew, like, last-minute, like, what we needed, at least something similar to the tools that we need, like the towel and her blanket just to keep her warm and stuff like that. I held her head for C-spine, which is pretty important if you're in the EMS or medical field because if a person falls, they could potentially be paralyzed if not handled with care.

HM: Right, to stabilize her head and neck.

SF: Yeah. So I stayed stabilizing her head and neck until the EMTs arrived. Once they arrived, I stayed until they pretty much told me to help with… I put her on the longboard. And at that point, they were implementing their skills and trying to figure out what they needed to get her onto the ambulance.

HM: It sounds like this was all pretty instinctive for you at this point?

SF: [chuckling] It was! It's… EMS is really something I've been… always been passionate about. I loved EMT school. I loved the people that I got to train with. It's something that I definitely… I've always wanted to do, but I tried to take the test two times, and I failed. I was reaching the point where I was kind of discouraged because I'm like, what if this isn't for me?

HM: Has this experience helping Karen change things for you? Have you started to think about that dream again?

SF: I would love to go back to school, but unfortunately, right now, I'm not in the best financial stability right now. So for me to go to school, I would have to stop DoorDashing. And that's my only source of income right now. Unfortunately, our childcare situation went left back in August of last year. So, since then, I've been kind of like a stay-at-home mom, but I still go DoorDash at night. So, I'm not making, like, a sufficient amount of money. But once, you know, financially, I feel like we'll be ready. I think, you know, it will definitely be a possibility. But for now, it's… unfortunately, I can't make that happen right now.

HM: I know DoorDash gave you an education grant, and you won an award from the Fairhaven Police Department. So you are getting some attention from this?

SF: Yeah, I definitely didn't expect any of the attention. I thought they were just going to be like, oh, thank you. Like, this is the family that you saved. And when they said that they had an award and that DoorDash was giving me $1,000 towards my educational stuff, I was… I was pretty excited. I mean, who doesn't like to be recognized for something that they did?

HM: Of course!

SF: You know what I mean? But I definitely did not go into this situation saving Karen expecting anything back from it. It just… I was just hoping the lady made it.

HM: And she has. It seems that what happened that night is she fell while waiting for you and hit her head quite hard. But after three weeks, she was released from the hospital. What have you heard about how she's doing?

SF: She's doing really well. I speak to her on a daily basis. She keeps me updated like, with what the doctors say. And, you know, she has hearing loss, and she gets, like, migraines from the whole situation. But overall, I mean, she's alive. She's… she's getting there. She's progressing.

HM: You sound like you've forged quite a relationship with her.

SF: Yes. Well, I think more so, too. I'll have to thank my kids for that. I have two lovely children. And my… my fiancé is awesome, too. So I think once we all met, she was just like, oh, my God. Like, you're an amazing person, I guess. [chuckling] And ever since then, like, she calls me, she wants to hang out with my kids. She got Easter gifts for the kids. And, like I said, she calls me on a day-to-day basis checking in with everyone and making sure everyone's okay.

HM: Yeah, so nice. The emergency services people that you were on the phone with all throughout all this, they described you as kind of an integral part of the team. How does it feel to know that you were able to use these skills at the exact moment that someone needed you the most?

SF: It felt really great, honestly. Because like I said, four years ago, I took this class and, you know, I did the whole course for EMS. Because I wasn't able to get that last certification and wasn't passing that exam, I wasn't able to practice the medicine at all. It felt so like, surreal. Like, it felt like it was meant to be. Like I was meant to be there, and I was meant to help her because, like, I knew exactly what to do. And implementing those skills as much as I possibly could.

HM: It's so wonderful that you were able to do this, and I hope you… you achieve those dreams that you're hoping for. Thanks so much for talking to us, Sophia.

SF: Thank you. I appreciate you guys reaching out. That's awesome.

HM: Okay. Bye.

SF: Bye-bye.

CH: Sophia Furtado works nights as a DoorDash delivery driver. We reached her in New Bedford, Massachusetts. And you can find more on that story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Acoustic guitar]

Gravestone Recipes

Guest: Rosie Grant

CH: Most epitaphs consist of two dates and a few words of wisdom, or a pithy quotation. But some add a few extra ingredients -- along with baking instructions. Rosie Grant is a master's student at the University of Maryland who's studying to become an archivist. During her internship with the Congressional Cemetery in Washington D.C., she found several unusual gravestones -- gravestones with entire recipes on them. So, out of respect and curiosity, she decided to make those recipes. And she posted the results on TikTok. We reached Rosie Grant in Washington, D.C.

HM: Rosie, at this point, you have a go-to gravestone recipe?

ROSIE GRANT: Go-to? Gosh, that's a great question! The one that I have remade before is "Ida's Nut Roll", which is like a jam nut roll that you roll up, bake, and then you sprinkle powdered sugar on. That, I think, is my favourite.

HM: Oh, it sounds actually quite nice. So, how did you… how did you find out that people put recipes on gravestones?

RG: So, I interned at Congressional Cemetery in Washington, D.C., and that's where I even heard about that people would, when they passed away, they put the family recipe on their gravestone as like their last marker. So that's how I heard about it. As far as learning to cook through it, I feel like it became my quarantine hobby. Like, I would get on to TikTok, or I would go for a walk in the cemetery, just to like do something that's outside and, like, easy to social distance. And I started cooking during quarantine, so it kind of combined all three of my hobbies.

HM: So, when you first saw one of these recipes on an actual gravestone, what did you think?

RG: I first was like baffled. Like, I was like, why would someone do that like that? Like, that's so… especially because when you see most gravestones, they're, you know, names or organizations they belonged to or things that they loved. And a recipe is such, like, a tactile thing. Like, it's… it's such a beautiful thing to share. At first, I was like, why would someone do this? And then, my second thought is, I have to cook through this because it's… you know, it's meant to be shared maybe with a loved one, or it's like it's a very kind of giving thing. And it feels very honestly like a lively activity, considering it's on a gravestone.

HM: So, how do you go about finding these? You must have some methods for tracking them down?

RG: Ultimately, all of them have been crowdsourced on the Internet. Like if you just Google different recipes, you can find them. Like, they've spanned really throughout the whole U.S. from like New York, Brooklyn, New York, all the way to Nome, Alaska, and down to Mississippi. And then the furthest one away has been in Israel. I found two in Israel. And those are just the ones that I've found. For all I know, there's even more out there.

HM: So, you're not just cooking U.S. recipes?

RG: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The nut roll actually was an Israeli one.

HM: Oh, that's so neat! Now, tell us about some of the other 10 recipes that you found.

RG: The one in New York is a spritz cookie recipe. And part of the fun of it, [chuckle] I would not say I'm a great cook. I've learned a lot in the process. Like, I didn't know that a spritz cookie was a specific kind of a cookie-cutter. So, it cooks it out in these gorgeous shapes. And the recipe itself is just the ingredients. So, when I posted it on TikTok, a bunch of people commented saying like, oh, my grandmother used to make it. And you should get a spritz cookie cutter. And this is what they look like. And this is how I made it or my family makes it. So that… that was a particularly special one. It was a woman who worked for the post office. There's these no-bake cookies in Alaska that were really darn good. All of them have been desserts. Very much a lot of a sweet tooth. A lot of family cookie recipes. I made a fudge. I believe that one was in Utah. And I messed the fudge up, but it was still very tasty. [laughing]

HM: So you mentioned that with the spritz cookies, you just had the ingredients and not the method. Is that… is that what usually happens? Do people actually put down what to do on the gravestone or just what you got to put in?

RG: Yeah. Unfortunately, I just came from a funeral, so I can… I can say this very, very close to heart. It's quite expensive to put together a headstone and do the funeral services and whatnot. So these people who, all of them women, have really committed to getting their recipe being put out there. And so, I think because of that, they not always have the most detail because they're not always, like, chiselled onto the grave itself. Some of them are literally just the ingredients. So, in the case of the spritz cookie, it's literally… it looks like an open book, and then just has the ingredients written out on it, which is so cool. But definitely, you have to learn a lot on the process. Versus actually, the nut roll itself had all of the instructions written out. So, I guess the kind of like recipe making part of it has really come from after posting about it and people saying their own process of how they cooked through a similar recipe.

HM: Can you tell me about the Cool Whip lady?

RG: [laughing] Oh yeah! So that's the Nome, Alaska one. Honestly… so, okay, that one is so fascinating to me because it's on this, like, this small Nome Alaskan cemetery. It's like if you even look up like "things to do in Nome", the Cool Whip gravestone… these are the no-bake cookies. And they literally on the side of it have the Cool Whip logo on it. [HM chuckles] I guess you could just kind of throw some Cool Whip on top of it. I'm not sure if Cool Whip sponsored this gravestone, and that's why they were able to do it that way? But they literally have the logo on the tombstone.

HM: Oh my gosh! What have you discovered about the women behind these recipes?

RG: They all sound wonderful! Like, very giving people. They all loved to cook. They all had a signature dish that they would bring to family gatherings. Like, the family member where you get excited when they come because they would bring the no-bake cookies or they'd bring the Christmas cookies or the spritz cookies or whatever. Like, it was a very beloved recipe. They all sounded like, you know, very lovely family people, very giving. I mean, even literally, their last testament to the world is the gift of a recipe.

HM: Mm-hmm. Now, you said you'd just come from a funeral. I understand it's your own grandmother's funeral that you were at today.

RG: Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, she lived… 97 years old.

HM: Oh!

RG: Fabulous long life. I was actually named after her. So this is Rosemary Grant, the first.

HM: Oh!

RG: So, it's been a very kind of, like, thoughtful time, very reflective, but also kind of beautiful.

HM: So, given your interest in these… these gravestone recipes, and just thinking about the legacy of food, is it changing how you're remembering her a bit?

RG: Absolutely. I think because I personally have always been very afraid of death. I've always thought of the funeral necessarily as, like, just, like, end of days and, you know, just a very sombre time. And I think cooking through these recipes has changed my perspective a lot of, like; it's also a reflection of the beauty of their lives, of happy memories, of getting together over a meal or cooking together. And so, it's really made me appreciate the, like, celebration side of things.

HM: Well, our condolences on the loss of your grandmother.

RG: Oh, thank you.

HM: But, you know, it's been a pleasure, though, to hear these stories and… and how you're… how you're accepting all of this. Thank you so much.

RG: Yeah, no, thank you. I really appreciate it.

HM: Okay. Bye-bye.

RG: Bye.

CH: That was Rosie Grant, who decided to bake recipes she found on gravestones while she was interning at the Congressional Cemetery in Washington D.C., Which is where we reached her.

[Music: Electronic]

Régine Obit

CH: "I am the person who made the modern way of nighttime. I am the first, and only, Queen of the Night." That's the kind of thing Régine said about herself. But what's surprising is that she was kind of right. The jet-setting club owner and bonne vivante died yesterday. She was 92. As you've guessed, she was big on self-mythologizing. Starting with her decision to adopt the mononym "Régine" in the mid-'50s, when she opened a small nightclub in Paris. It had a jukebox. But the silences between songs "killed the atmosphere", she said, so she brought in two turntables, so she could switch from one to another without a break. "It was the first-ever discotheque," she told the BBC, "and I was the first-ever club disc jockey." Citation needed. But thousands of witnesses could corroborate the next part of her story -- as her empire slowly expanded to 23 clubs around the world. Including the hottest club in Manhattan for much of the '70s, which was, of course, named "Régine's". Everyone who was anyone lined up to get in. Formalwear mandatory. To the point where Mick Jagger was once turned away for wearing sneakers. Eventually, of course, newer, hipper clubs took over, and her star began to dim. But her energy never did. Through the 1990s, she kept opening new clubs. And dancing at them. "I am like a night flower," she told New York Magazine when she was 70, "I bloom only after midnight."

[Music: Disco electric?]

Part 2: Archbishop of Canterbury: Residential Schools System Records, U.S. Pediatrician Guidelines

Archbishop of Canterbury: Residential Schools System Records

Guest: Roberta Hill

CH: When the Archbishop of Canterbury spoke at James Smith Cree Nation in Saskatchewan this weekend, he apologized for the role of the Anglican Church in, "building hell and putting children into it." For more than a century, the Anglican Church ran about three dozen residential schools in Canada. And Anglican clerics have apologized for the church's role before. But this is the first apology from the spiritual leader of the Church of England. However, one group of survivors wasn't interested in hearing from Justin Welby. Survivors of the Mohawk Institute Residential School in Ontario told the Archbishop that they would not participate in a meeting unless those words were met with action. Roberta Hill is a member of the Survivors' Secretariat, a survivor-led group leading the ground search at the former Mohawk Institute Residential School. She attended the school from ages six to 10. We reached her in Six Nations.

HM: Roberta Hill, what do you think of the apology from the Archbishop of Canterbury?

ROBERTA HILL: Well, I think it's, to me, it's a good start. It's whether there's follow-up with it? You know, whether there's action? Now, from what I understand, that the Archbishop is going to try to get the records that we've requested from the New England Company. So, that's a good start.

HM: Um-hmm.

RH: You know, it really is. The other issue that I had brought up before was about the issue of languages. It's because of the residential schools that languages were lost because languages were forbidden. So, hopefully, they can act on that one as well. There's… it's like this was a pretty destructive force as far as, like, culture, language and culture, within all of our communities, you know?

HM: You and others from the Survivors’ Secretariat felt you couldn't participate in the meeting with the Archbishop. Why is that? And what would have changed that?

RH: I think one of the bigger issues is… is that you don't just show up on our territory. There's a respectful protocol. You can go through our Six Nations’ elected council. We have a traditional, the Confederacy Chiefs. You could go through there. And I think that would have been more appropriate. Just don't say we're going to have a… we want to meet with survivors and, you know, have a little photo op here. And I think if it had been done in a maybe in a different manner, more respectful manner, things would have worked out a bit better.

HM: So, you think he should have been invited more formally?

RH: Mm-hmm. Yes.

HM: Mm-hmm. And you say a photo op. Do you think that's what… what it would be?

RH: I do. I do. Unless you're willing to sit down and deal with the issues. You know and really have a conversation. And maybe that… that's something that we could do in the future, I don't really know. But if you're only coming to say you're sorry, there's more to the issues, you know?

HM: You mentioned that you want these documents from the New England Company, which was a Christian charity that originally ran the Mohawk Institute. What do you believe you can learn from these documents?

RH: I think there's probably a lot of information. I… you know, we’re… the Survivors’ Secretariat is dealing with the unmarked burials and the missing children. We do know that there's children that died at the Mohawk Institute. There's a record that they died, but we don't know where they're buried, right? So, those are the issues that we're looking at. And where are they buried? I have no clue.

HM: Archbishop Welby said on Saturday that the New England Company is separate from the Church of England, but he did promise to do all that he can to get the documents released. Is that good enough for you?

RH: Well, the thing… I think the thing that I would like clarification on is that while I was at the Mush Hall, I only knew the Anglican Church. I did not know anything about the New England Company. So, if the New England Company was there and then the Anglican Church took over, I know that they were very much a part of our lives. Somebody must have been keeping records. So, where are they? If the Anglican Church doesn't have them, who has them? And I'm pretty sure they kept track of every child that came in and out of that school.

HM: Why do you think it's taken so long to get your hands on these records?

RH: Um, I think it's just stalling. I really do. Because, you know, even when the Truth and Reconciliation was up and running over the five years, they were asking for more records, and they didn't get them within the timeframe that they were hoping to get them. So why? Good question. I really don't know why, unless they're deliberately hiding them. We're not asking for something that's impossible. It's just… we just want to see the records. They pertain to us as children. That was our history. Our lives were there.

HM: Mm-hmm. Now, your group has asked also, as you mentioned earlier, for funding to revive Indigenous languages that the residential schools tried to eliminate. Um, how do you believe that that would perhaps address some of the wrongs that were done to you and other survivors?

RH: I think, for one thing, if they did start to fund it, that's an acknowledgement. That would be a huge acknowledgement that, yes, they did have a role in extinguishing languages. We know that. Because, as children, you weren't allowed to speak your… your native language. Nobody was. You could speak English or French. That was it. If he doesn't commit to that funding, then to me, like, what are you apologizing for? There's many wrongs that happened at the Institute, you know, at the Mohawk Institute. Many wrongs. This is only a few of them. And those are big. That's language and culture is what they were going after, initially. They wanted language and culture gone because they knew that if they… if they started with children, it was easy to eradicate language and culture because those are the early learning agents, right? You can't make an adult male… like, an adult man or woman here on the territory; if they've already got their language and their culture, they can't take it away from them because it's already what they've been taught from birth. But when you take children and try to change them, it's easy to change children.

HM: You mentioned living at the Mush Hole. This is what the Mohawk Institute Residential School was known as. I guess in part because of how horrible the food was. And we know, of course, about other horrific abuses committed there. What would justice look like for you in terms of the search for the children who didn't make it home?

RH: Well, it goes right back to the truth. Somebody knows. And that's all we're saying is we want the truth. Where are the children? We want… there's a lot of probably… I wouldn't say a lot, but for wherever the children came from, they didn't come just from Six Nations. The families of those children deserve to have answers. And that's what we're asking for. Whether they want to bring the children home, that would be their choice. But I think they deserve to have an acknowledgement that a child died there. And here's where we buried them.

HM: Is there a time you could foresee when you might be willing to sit down with the Archbishop?

RH: Yeah, there's probably a time, but we'll have to work through that one.

HM: You're not ready right now?

RH: Not right now.

HM: Roberta Hill, thank you very much for talking with us today.

RH: Okay. Thank you.

HM: Bye.

CH: Roberta Hill is a survivor of the former Mohawk Institute Residential School. We reached her in Six Nations in Ontario. A national Indian Residential School Crisis Line has been set up to provide support to residential school survivors and those affected. The number is 1-866-925-4419.

[Music: Sombre ambient]

Carey Price Injury

CH: Carey Price isn't making promises he can't keep. The star goalie closed out the Montreal Canadiens' season on Friday with a blow-out of the Florida Panthers. But, when Mr. Price spoke to reporters on Saturday, he wasn't predicting clear sailing ahead. After undergoing knee surgery and entering a treatment facility for substance abuse, he'd missed all but five games this year. That has raised questions about Mr. Price's future, amid talk about rebuilding the team. So, on Saturday, reporters wanted to know whether Carey Price thought he could play a full season with his knee in its current condition?

[sc]

CAREY PRICE: My honest opinion is no. You know, I don't believe that you know, the current state would be… would be sustainable for a whole season. So, you know, in that regard, I got… I got a lot of, again, a lot of question marks. And… and fortunately for me, I got a lot of time over the summer to prepare. So, you know, we'll see.

REPORTER: Carey, with everything you've gone through this year, what's… what's the biggest lesson you've learned or whatever? Just… not just in hockey but life in general?

CP: Um, I think, you know, the most important thing is… is, you know, setting priorities. And, you know, I think being at home for the… for the majority of the season has really, you know, put my family life in perspective and how… how grateful I am for that.

REPORTER #2: Can you go back to yesterday? You know, morning skate. Going back home. Seeing your family. Playing that game. Seeing your family again. What was your… in what frame of mind were you saying to yourself, is this maybe it? Did you prepare that way?

CP: Yeah. You know, the whole day was… it was just an exceptional day for myself. You know, it's just… you know, from… I had a great sleep, so it was just like an A-plus day. So, you know, if it is it, then, you know, that would be a great way to do it.

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CH: Montreal Canadiens goalie Carey Price speaking to reporters on Saturday.

[Music: Indie rock]

U.S. Pediatrician Guidelines

Guest: Dr. Joseph Wright

CH: Doctors who care for children have a vital responsibility. And so, it's vitally important that they treat their patients fairly, no matter what their background. With that in mind, the American Academy of Pediatrics is launching a full investigation of all its guidelines to doctors to eliminate "race-based" medicine. One such policy has already been scrubbed. And now, all the Academy's advice and teaching material will be scrutinized. Dr. Joseph Wright is leading the effort. We reached him in Hilton Head, South Carolina.

HM: Dr. Wright, as you undertake this re-examination process, who are the patients that you are most concerned about?

DR. JOSEPH WRIGHT: Well, Helen, we're concerned about all of the patients. We want to provide an equitable clinical playing field for all patients. So, the opportunity here to dismantle race-based approaches to clinical care delivery benefits everybody. But, of course, the emphasis is on those patients who historically have been marginalized or populations that have been particularly vulnerable based on bias and discrimination that have historically created disparities in health outcomes.

HM: You write that race-based medicine has been pervasively interwoven into the fabric of health care delivery in the United States for more than 400 years. What impact does it have in practical terms, on... on young patients and their families?

DJW: Yes. Well, the impact in many circumstances is the risk of not delivering equitable care. So I'll use the example that has received the most attention in pediatrics, which has been the way that we approach the workup for a suspected urinary tract infection. So, the way that the clinical practice guidelines are has been written, we've since retired it, but the way that it was originally written is that it would put little Black girls under the age of two with fever who are presenting with a suspected urinary tract infection at a lower likelihood of receiving the gold standard test to assess whether there is an infection or not. So, just that theoretical risk based on the algorithm puts those children at risk for missing a clinical condition which could have deleterious outcomes on the other end. So, just that potential risk of not delivering equitable care is certainly more than enough for us to strongly, and you know without any hesitation, recommend eliminating those kinds of race-based variables in these practice guidelines.

HM: Now, in the coming months, you're going to be examining guidance on jaundice in newborns. What does that guidance look like now?

DJW: Yeah. And not in the coming months. We are currently undergoing re-examination of that clinical practice guideline. And the way that that guideline has utilized race and ethnicity in this case because the… the practice guideline calls for the determination of care based on a race assignment of… of Black or East Asian. And what we have learned is that there are risk factors having to do with what we call genetic polymorphism, an actual difference in a gene expression that puts little Black boys in particular with jaundice at high risk for severe complications that need to be accounted for, or at a minimum, need not to be dismissed as part of a race-based algorithm. So, we're working on correcting that, and we expect to have that algorithm, that clinical practice guideline, revised, completed, and ready to enter into the clinical arena by summer.

HM: You know, if bias or racism is behind these things being in the guidelines despite lack of scientific basis, I guess one might think that was something that happened many decades ago. How is this still standard guidance for pediatricians?

DJW: Well, make no mistake about it. The… the heightened attention in the aftermath of the recent social justice activity has shown a light on the structural biases that live in our practice and have lived in our practice for decades, if not hundreds of years. So… so, this is the inflection point. This is the inflection moment for all of us in our profession to look with a hard equity lens at all of our practices to ensure that these biases are rooted out and are replaced by legitimate, scientifically-proven approaches to delivery of clinical care. And, Helen, please, I want to make clear this statement is not implicating the investigators who developed the guidelines in ways that would suggest that there was bias intent. However, we have been, in many ways, blind. I trained… I trained on these guidelines. I have taught these guidelines. And now that we are scrutinizing with a much more equity-based lens, we are really reckoning with the potential outcomes on our patients and getting it fixed.

HM: You have said you want to get rid of race-based medicine and move toward what you call race-conscious medicine. What does that look like?

DJW: Yes. Thank you for making that distinction, Helen. We need to still account for the differences that race and racism confer on population. So there is no doubt that the effects of race and racism lead to differential experiences for people. And there are groups of people who, because of race and racism, have experienced health disparities. And so, we cannot ignore that. We need to eliminate the inappropriate use of race as a biologic proxy. But also, the hard work ahead is to also account for the influence of race and racism on the health outcomes of historically marginalized and vulnerable populations.

HM: Well, Dr. Wright, thank you for explaining the changes to us. I appreciate your time.

DJW: Helen, thank you so much for having me.

HM: Okay. Goodbye.

DJW: Bye-bye.

CH: Dr. Joseph Wright is the head of the American Academy of Pediatrics' effort to eliminate race-based medicine from its guidelines. He was in Hilton Head, South Carolina.

[Music: Bright piano]

White House Correspondents Dinner

CH: Since 1921, The White House Correspondents Dinner has been an annual Washington, D.C. tradition -- in which the press and politicians rub shoulders and crack jokes, all capped with a comedic roast of the Commander-in-Chief. It's supposed to be fun. Even if some of the smiles are indistinguishable from grimaces. But between Donald Trump's boycott of the event and pandemic cancellations, it's been six years since a U.S. President has attended the event. Still, comedian Trevor Noah was quick to turn up the heat on the guest of honour this weekend.

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TREVOR NOAH: Of course, the real reason that it's such an honour to be here tonight is that we all get to be in the same room as the most powerful man in the United States. So let's give it up for Joe Manchin, everybody. [laughing in the audience] Where is he? Is he there? Good to see you, sir. Good to see you. No, for real. For real, though. Mr. President, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me here. You know, I was a little confused about why me? But then I was told that you get your highest approval ratings when a biracial African guy is standing next to you. [laughing and clapping][doing an Obama voice] So… So, what did you say, Joe? I'm glad that I could do my part. And hopefully, this will work. I'm not actually him. I just did the voice. [laughing] I think everyone will agree that it's actually nice to once again have a president who's not afraid to come to the White House Correspondents Dinner. [clapping] And hear jokes about himself. I'll be honest. I'll be honest. I'll be honest. If you didn't come, I totally would have understood. Yeah. Yeah. Because these people have been so hard on you, which I don't get. I really don't. You know, I think ever since you've come into office, things are really looking up. You know gas is up. Rent is up. Food is up. Everything. [laughing] And, as you all know, President Biden's lack of a filter does get him into hot water sometimes. You know, last month, he caused a huge international incident saying that Vladimir Putin should be removed from power. It was very, very upsetting to Russia. [clapping] Yeah. Until someone explained to them that none of the stuff Biden wants actually gets done. [racious laughter of a burn] But, despite some hiccups, President Biden has led the country through some really dark times since he took office. The COVID pandemic, the war in Ukraine, the launch of CNN Plus. [laughing] And don't forget. Don't forget. Don't forget. He's also had some major legislative successes. You know, in his first year in office, I might add. You know, he got a bipartisan infrastructure bill passed that would do everything from fixing America's roads and bridges to modernizing school buses, which Matt Gates's girlfriend is very excited about. [boos] Don't boo love! Not to mention no president in my memory has given more marginalized groups opportunities. You know, I'm talking about women, the LGBTQ community, the Taliban. The list goes on and on. And I know… I know, Mr. President, that the left is super upset at you. You know, I think that they should be happy to know that you just recently announced that you're proposing a new 20 per cent minimum tax on the super-wealthy. And I will say, President Biden, that you were a big man here, a really big man. You could have targeted Donald Trump, but instead, you chose to only raise taxes on billionaires. [laughing] That was big of you. Really nice. Prove me wrong. Show me the taxes.

[/sc]

CH: That was Trevor Noah, roasting U.S. President Biden at The White House Correspondents Dinner in Washington, D.C., on Saturday night.

[Music: Calypso]

Part 3: Confederation Bridge Name Change, Brontes Magazines Sold

RCMP Inquest

CH: September 19th, 2018 was the beginning of a nightmare for Jennifer Maniyogena. She was working as a janitor in the health centre in her home community of Kugluktuk, Nunavut when a young man was rushed in with a head injury. That man was her 22-year-old son, Austin. And that head injury was sustained while he was in RCMP custody. Austin later died. Today, a coroner's inquest began into the circumstances of his injury and death. Ms. Manigoyena spoke to our colleagues at CBC North about her memories of that day. And a quick warning -- as you'd expect, what she has to say is hard to hear.

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JENNIFER MANIYOGENA: That's when I barged in that emergency room. I realized it was him. I wanted to see for myself it was him. And when I realized it was him, I was trying to say something. And then, somebody brought me out. I escorted them to Yellowknife. He was on life support since he was brought in. I never… [chokes back tears] I never even talked to him or anything. But they told us it was a serious, serious injury. We brought his baby in. I asked my daughter-in-law to come in with Baby so at least Austin could hear Baby or something. She came over with Baby. I put Baby on Austin. I put Baby on Austin. I said, look, Son. Your baby. Your baby. Don’t leave her. Don’t leave her. He was always on life support since he was brought in, the eight hours or however many hours since he was brought in. Must be 8:30-9 to drunk tank, but never brought to health centre till like 2 o’clock or 2 o’clock in the afternoon or something. [crying] So many hours later. By the time when took my son, I remember that part when it was 10 o’clock. They gave me the choice of leave him plugged for now or do you want to wait a few minutes? They gave me a few minutes to talk to him. So I did before they unplugged him at 10:30 or something. I don’t want another parent to bury their child. It's the worst thing in the world to go through. And I never wish anybody upon it. I don’t want other parents to bury their kids from this kind of thing. At the cells… at the cells, I hear so many prejudiced stories and everything. And this is… this is proof of it. [sobbing] I’m so sad to hear my son had to die to see proval of this kind of treatment of Aboriginal people are thrown inside the drunk tank. [sniffle] I don’t want money or anything. I just want justice. Money comes and goes. I don't care about money. I only care about people. And I don’t want other people to go through this. I want justice for my son. So, that's all I'm hoping for.

[/sc]

CH: That was Jennifer Maniyogena. She was speaking with Hillary Bird with CBC Yellowknife.

[Music: Piano]

Confederation Bridge Name Change

Guest: Raymond Sewell

CH: It's a long time crossing. And changing its name has been a long time coming. Last week, members of the Prince Edward Island Legislature voted unanimously to rename the Confederation Bridge. The almost 13-kilometre-long span, which was completed 25 years ago, links P.E.I with the rest of Canada. And the motion calls for the bridge to be renamed Epekwitk Crossing. Raymond Sewell is Mi'kmaw from the Pabineau First Nation in New Brunswick and a professor of English at Saint Mary's University. We reached him in Halifax.

HM: Raymond, you have studied the history of the bridge and its name. Why is it so important now that it be renamed?

RAYMOND SEWELL: I think in light of the discovery of mass graves, the scourge of Turtle Island to allow way for colonial enterprise, neoliberal enterprise, I think that we're assessing that Canada stands on shaky foundations of colonialism. And if we're to move forward with reconciliation, we… we need to come together and build something on a new foundation. And for me, that's community.

HM: The members of the P.E.I. legislature voted unanimously to support the name change to Epekwitk Crossing, but this isn't the first time the name has been proposed. Tell us a bit about the history behind that name.

RS: Between 2010 and 2014, I took a deep dive on all the specifics of the referendum for the bridge, for the naming. They wanted to call it Span of Green Gables, the Spud Highway. Now, those are quite funny. Epekwitk Crossing was among those. It seemed a natural… natural name for me. Like, I thought, that's great! It's descriptive of the area. So, whenever I did my thesis, I wasn't around at the time of the genesis of the first name, but as a burgeoning academic, I had a hunch that in the future, this would come up again because my research looked at the politics of naming and the problem with naming things after people.

HM: So I just want to get into why Confederation Bridge emerged as the name at the time? You know, obviously, we know Charlottetown's Association with Confederation, but. What was the purpose of choosing that name?

RS: They chose it to be a homage to the past, the birthplace of Confederation. So, that… that's where it comes from. It's a… it's a tip of the hat to… to the colonial genesis of Canada. So, for me, I was… when I heard it, I was like, whoa, I don't like how that… how that sits, you know?

HM: Do you think in choosing the name Confederation, they were trying to draw in the rest of Canada into kind of being invested in some way into the idea of this bridge?

RS: I think there were selling the history of it as the birthplace of Confederation. You have different places that are named Confederation. It's about Canadian identity and competing cultural imaginings of the area. So whenever they were coming up with name ideas, that one stuck at the time because the Canadian commonality is colonization. If you look through Canadian identity, what's the linking thing, that link of… of John A.'s promise to link to the country by land, sea, and rail. That… that… that's the glue that they wanted. They wanted… that identity is very much rooted in Canadian colonization.

HM: Mm-hmm.

RS: So when… whenever they named that, it was intentional. And I think, too, in the public consciousness, in Canadian rhetoric, people think that Confederation is benign. But I came on this program to say it's not. It's a colonial… colonial government's take. And in our case, Mi'kmaw is unceded land. So it's asserting a dominance over land that's already unceded. So.

HM: Mm-hmm. You mentioned that moving to Epekwitk to name the bridge is… it's timely given our… our thoughts right now about reconciliation. That's something that MLAs that stood up in the legislature said when they supported this… this motion. Do you think that agreeing to rename the bridge can play that big a role in moving towards reconciliation?

RS: I think it does because we're continually decolonizing spaces on Turtle Island. Some people, like I said, fear that their identities aren't safe because their colonial identity is that identity of what it means to be Canadian. However, I believe people are coming together to form a new Canadian identity of sorts that doesn't prides itself on genocide, scourge of Turtle Island. The colonial narrative of assertion over the land, that was always a shaky foundation. So people are tired of building on it over and over again. We see through it. We know what happened in the past. We don't want to… want to redo it every time, you know? I think coming together as a community in the current times without an intense focus on nationalism or nationhood or one one nation over the other is the key. You know, like… like people say, you don't get your history from the name of a bridge. You go read a book or, you know? [chuckle] Like, ask someone a story about it. Learn about it that way. I think these little acts are all… all adding up to… to more awareness. They're adding up to people feeling proud to know the original names of the land and things like that. It's nothing new. I've been working with Saint Mary's University since probably about 2011. We've been working on the Mi'kmaw Place Names project. We've been renaming or reasserting the traditional names for places. We have thousands of them. So if people are offended by us [chuckling] changing the name of Confederation Bridge, if they go to Mi'kmaw Place Names, they're going to be thoroughly shocked. [laughing]

HM: You mentioned earlier that, you know, Mi'kmaw never ceded any land on the island to anyone. Do you see this as a potential step towards the recognition of land rights?

RS: I think if we can get this done by May 31st, I think at least a 25th anniversary, we could really commemorate this and say, hey, this is the old name, this is the new name, the spirit of reconciliation. I mean, we don't have to build on that colonial past anymore. We're in a modern time, where we can bring our language. This is our language, right? We can bring our language, our worldviews, all to a greater understanding of stuff. I work with elders, and they say, If you go and look at the mountains or you look at a tree, you don't see it until you walk all around. So, I like to take that as… as everyone coming together with their languages, their worldviews, all sharing their understanding of the world, right? So we get a big idea of what P.E.I means, and this is just one step towards it.

HM: So, what… what's left to be done before the renaming can go ahead?

RS: From my read, I think that it's just going to be rubber-stamped by the federal government. I think unanimous decision; hey, I feel good now. Like, when I go visit the P.E.I, the electorate voted for these people who have this idea. I feel good. I feel accepted, you know. Wow! I had to take a double-take because everything that comes from colonialism was always against us. So to hear it was unanimously passed, I say, wow! Hey, the government, the democracy ruled from the people. So, I was like, this is excellent. I feel like more people are with us than against us, you know?

HM: Yeah, it's nice to hear the positive reception to something like this.

RS: You have to see all of the comments sections.

HM: [both laughing] Yes, it's true.

RS: That's the mean thing.

HM: This is always true. Raymond Sewell, thank you so much for talking to us. I appreciate it.

RS: Of course.

HM: Goodbye.

RS: Later.

CH: Raymond Sewell is Mi'kmaw from the Pabineau First Nation in New Brunswick and a professor of English at SMU. We reached him in Halifax.

[Music: Piano]

Eid Day Off

CH: Today, Muslims are marking the end of Ramadan by celebrating Eid al-Fitr. And for some high school students in Brooks, Alberta, that means skipping school -- because it's not a statutory holiday like Christmas is. Some of those students wanted to have that changed and approached the Grasslands Public Schools District to add Eid to the school calendar. Hikma Musa and Abdi Dawe are two of the students behind the campaign. Here's Ms. Musa.

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HIKMA MUSA: So, unfortunately, I am skipping class today. It is tough because this is, like, for us, Eid marks the end of Ramadan. And it's… like, it's supposed to be a time of, like, blessing and joy. But, you know, you just got to make those tough decisions sometimes.

ABDI DAWE: We decided to reach out to the superintendent in our school district. And then, he came out to a meeting and heard us out. We just told him what we… what we thought was. And, like, we're like, oh, maybe one day we can get a day off. 'Cause, like, Christmas, it's like two weeks off for everybody, which is great, but we're like, maybe we can trade one day and get our Eid day off. He kind of left and talked to his team, and then the next time I heard from him was the yes.

HM: I was very surprised. I wasn't expecting them to like, agree with our thing because it's just something that has not been done before. So it came to me as a shocking news when Abdi like, oh, you know, it's part of the calendar now. It's a day that they usually don't get off. So, when they actually have it off, they will be like, you know, oh, why are we having this day off? And then that will get them to know more about the Islamic culture and traditions. It will be like an informing moment, I guess.

[/sc]

CH: Hikma Musa and before her, Abdi Dawe -- two Muslim students from Brooks Composite High School. Starting next school year, all students in the Grasslands Public Schools District in Alberta will have a day off to celebrate Eid al-Fitr. They were speaking to Rob Brown of the Calgary Eyeopener.

[Music: Ambient]

Potato Lady

CH: Tania Cameron has an interesting nickname. In the communities around Kenora, Ontario, where she lives, she's known as "the Potato Lady." Ms. Cameron earned that moniker early on in the pandemic when she became the go-to for tubers in the area -- connecting locals with a nearby farmer's deeply discounted crop. Last week, Tania Cameron had her biggest giveaway yet: 60,000 pounds of P.E.I. potatoes. And, of course, that's small potatoes compared to the 245,000 pounds she's dished out in total. And it all began when the chips, so to speak, were down.

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TANIA CAMERON: I saw while I was scrolling on social media that there was a farm just outside of Winnipeg, which is two hours from me here in Kenora, that needed to offload potatoes because their market shut down. And that farmer was really struggling. So he was offering a great deal of $15 for a 50-pound bag. I overshare, I think, on my social media. And I said, hey, I'm going to run to this farm for a no-contact pickup. Does anybody want potatoes? I had no idea the response that we'd have. And I guess it makes sense because the grocery store shelves here in Kenora, we have three grocery stores in the small town, were bare because the world was shutting down. Truckers were having a hard time getting their shipping across Canada. So, the need was very apparent from the first call out for who wants some potatoes. And since that time, I've… it was six potato runs for a total of 185,000 pounds of potatoes in northwestern Ontario. So yesterday's was 60,000 pounds. So that brings it up to 245,000 pounds since the start of the pandemic.

MITCH CORMIER: And how did you end up with the 60,000 pounds of potatoes from P.E.I.?

TC: Yes. So, Sack & Harvest, they called one day and asked if I would take in a free shipment of potatoes. I said yes, I will never say no to food. And the response in the towns of Dryden and Kenora were just tremendous.

MC: So they went in just a single day?

TC: Yeah, all in a single day; 60,000 pounds.

MC: What were people saying as they picked them up?

TC: A lot of them are just so super grateful. Asking how much? And I said, no, it's totally free. And then, the number one question was, did they fall off of a wrecked transport? Is that why there's so many free potatoes?

MC: Are they roadkill?!

TC: And I was laughing like… [both laugh] yeah, exactly! I was like, no! So, I'd have to explain over and over, these are from P.E.I. The farmers needed help, and the federal government covered the cost of shipping. So, it was explaining that over and over yesterday. [chuckling]

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CH: That's Tania Cameron, also known as the Potato Lady, in Kenora in northwestern Ontario. She was speaking with Mitch Cormier, host of CBC Charlottetown's Island Morning.

[Music: Country]

Brontes Magazines Sold

CH: Charlotte Brontë's writing was inspired -- but her titles tended to be plainly literal. Like her sisters, she had a habit of naming novels quite simply for their protagonists or settings. Even some of her earliest works had strictly descriptive designations. Take, for instance, A Book of Rhymes by Charlotte Brontë, Sold by Nobody, and Printed by Herself. The manuscript is just 15 pages long, and it was one of Charlotte Brontë's first, written by hand in miniature. And I mean miniature. So miniature that you need a magnifying glass to read it. But its otherwise on-brand title is no longer as accurate as it once was. Because Ms. Brontë's Book of Rhymes has been sold. And not for nothing, neither. The tiny manuscript was bought at auction by the British organization Friends of the National Libraries -- which has donated the $1.25 million purchase to the Brontë Parsonage Museum. In the manuscript, a 13-year-old Ms. Brontë writes, "The following are attempts at rhyming of an inferior nature, it must be acknowledged. But they are nevertheless my best." This is not the first time collectors have been willing to pay a tidy sum for her best. Back in 2019, the Brontë Society scored another of the writer's miniature manuscripts for its museum -- and we heard from spokesperson Rebecca Yorke about The Young Men's Magazine.

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REBECCA YORKE: The Society has one of the largest collections of Bronte material in the world. And the little books Aare some of the most iconic things in that collection. So in this particular series of the magazine that Charlotte created, there were six books originally. And we know that because they're numbered and dated. And the museum already had four.

And then there's this this last one that came up for auction yesterday. It also came to auction in 2011, and The Bronte Society went to auction that time and were outbid. And it was devastating. So this was a second chance to bring it home to Haworth, complete the collection, and sort of finished that story really.

CO: And you had support, didn't you? Because you didn't want to see this disappear for a second time and not get it [said while laughing]. So you had some pretty high-powered people trying to help you get hold of this.

RY: Yeah, that's right. And, of course, you know, we have Judi Dench as our president. And she very kindly decided yes, she would agree to, you know, put her name to this campaign. And the Brontes are a known and loved the world over. And from our Twitter feed alone, we know there are high-profile people out there that love the Brontes. And so we were very fortunate and able to harness some of that support and love. And we've been actually overwhelmed by, you know, members of the public from all over the world either remembering a visit to the museum, remembering a visit to Haworth, but also just remembering reading Jane Eyre for the first time.

CO: This little book was written by Charlotte Bronte. And she was, of course, best known for Jane Eyre. But she wrote this — or created this — this little book — this little magazine — when she was 14, is that right?

RY: That's right. She was 14. So the children — the Bronte children — were all encouraged to read very widely. And they were given access to writers like Byron. And their family subscribed to periodical magazines. And so the Brontes created these tiny little magazines, which were like facsimiles of things they'd seen. So this particular series has got you know a contents page. It says edited by Charlotte Bronte. And you know it's got adverts in and you know short stories. So it's a really early indication that Charlotte wanted to be a writer. She wanted to be published. You know, they’re just sort of perfect miniature magazines.

CO: All of it, you're describing a magazine, but we're talking about something very tiny here, aren't we?

RY: I know, I know. Well, that's because Mr. Bronte bought the children some toy soldiers. And the children created imaginary worlds that were inhabited by these soldiers. You know, they gave their soldiers names. And so these magazines were created to be of the size for those soldiers to read. And hence, you know, the term young men's magazines. Those young men were those soldiers. And also, because of those Byroinc influences I talked about, sometimes the contents were a bit racy, as you might say [uneasy chuckle]. And so it also meant that by making them that size, they were too small for Mr. Bronte to read. [both chuckle]

CO: But they’re actual stories. It’s not just that they're made to look like when you're making things for a doll's or for children, has to appear to be something. These are actually written. In this one, there’s a handwritten story or a stories is in this book, right?

RY: That's right. And that's what makes it really exciting. These are proper stories in miniscule handwriting. You know, you need a magnifying glass. And even then it's a bit of a struggle. And this particular book that we acquired yesterday has 4,000 words in it. And in particular, one of the stories is about a murderer who is haunted by his victims. There’s a scene that's described as having a fire in his head that’s sort of burning so brightly — this sort of violent feeling in his head — that he sets his bed curtains on fire. Now anyone who's ever read Jane Eyre will recognize that as, you know, being reminiscent of Mr. Rochester's bed curtains and the bed burning scene in Jane Eyre. So it's again a really early indication that, you know, Charlotte's themes that she was trying and playing with as a young teenager with things that obviously stayed with her. And then she, you know, made them into her more mature work.

CO: But she was writing these Byron-esque stories — these racy stories — when she was 14. [trying not to laugh]

RY: I know. Well, Mr. Bronte, you see, was just quite forward-thinking and radical in the material he let his children read. They obviously were brought up to some extent by their servant and the housekeeper, who would have told them, you know, bits of gossip from the village. So, yes, I think that's what's extraordinary. And a 14-year-old vicar’s daughter wouldn't have been expected to be writing about adulterous dalliances and illegitimate children. But, no, they did. It hasn't been transcribed formally, or any other works inside it published, as I've just mentioned. So obviously there will be access as well for scholars and researchers who will really be wanting to start looking at that. But the museum will always have a little book on display. As I said, they’re our most iconic items in the collection — loved by visitors.

CO: Absolutely, just lovely. Rebecca, thank you.

RY: You're very welcome.

CO: Bye.

RY: Bye.

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CH: Rebecca Yorke is with the Brontë Society, which runs the Brontë Parsonage Museum. She spoke with Carol in November 2019. Now, the Museum has acquired another of Charlotte Brontë's miniature magazines.

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May 02, 2022 Episode Transcript

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