Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2022

The AIH Transcript For April 1, 2022

Hosts: Gillian Findlay and Chris Howden

GILLIAN FINDLAY: Hello, I'm Gillian Findlay.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden, this is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

GF: Apology accepted. Former Assembly of First Nations chief Phil Fontaine says he heard the Pope's residential school apology loud and clear -- and believes it will help survivors heal.

CH: Apology rejected. An Anishinaabe activist tells us she's glad the Pope's contrition is a comfort to some survivors, but she's not mincing words when it comes to critiquing his.

GF: Work in progress. One of the organizers behind the first successful union vote at Amazon tells us it will be tough to hold the multi-billion-dollar corporation to account -- but today's result has already made history.

CH: A close shave. After a change to their Uniform Code, Irish police officers hoping to get away with less-than-meticulous personal grooming have been warned: not all beards are uniformly welcome.

GF: Play by the rules. Colorado politicians pass new legislation clarifying that kids can play by themselves outside, without their parents being accused of neglect -- our guest says the law’s passage protects an important right of passage.

CH: And… covering his tracks. With travel back on the table, our guest had a unique adventure in mind -- and tonight, he'll tell us why he set out to find out how far he could travel in 24 hours by train.

CH: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that lets your choo-choose your own adventure.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Papal Apology: Fontaine, Papal Apology: Riley Yesno, Train 24 Passenger

Papal Apology: Fontaine

Guest: Phil Fontaine

CH: This morning, a round dance broke out in Saint Peter's Square in Vatican City. It was a celebration of today's apology from Pope Francis for the abuse by some members of the Catholic Church in Canada's residential school system. The Pope spoke of his shame and sorrow but stopped short of apologizing for the Church's role in residential schools. He also said he hopes to visit Canada this summer. For Metis elder Angie Crerar, it was a day she will never forget.

[sc]

ANGIE CRERAR: My heart is so full I can hardly speak, to not only receive and talk to him. Like, we discussed twice about our children, finding our children. And the first time I spoke on Monday and when I saw him yesterday, he remembered. And then, I told him, don't forget our children. And he said, we won't.

[/sc]

CH: That was Metis elder Angie Crerar speaking in Rome. Phil Fontaine is the former national chief of the Assembly of First Nations. We reached him in Rome.

GF: Mr. Fontaine, you have been seeking an apology for 40 years now. Do you feel that you got one today?

PHIL FONTAINE: Quite clearly. The words we heard from Pope Francis, I am very sorry, is an apology. That's how it was received by the strong contingent of Indigenous representatives from every part of the country. It was an important statement. It was a special moment in our. in our in our history. Particularly with respect to our relationship with the Catholic Church.

GF: You said earlier today that you were surprised. You weren't necessarily expecting this today?

PH: Well, I was surprised. But deep down, I… I was hopeful that we would hear a substantial statement from Pope Francis, and that's… and that's what we received. I can handle surprises like the one that we had today.

GF: [chuckling] Now, as some have already pointed out, the apology fell short of taking full responsibility. Pope Francis said he was sorry for the deplorable conduct of some members of the Catholic Church, but he didn't say he was sorry for the role the church played in creating residential schools, for instance, or permitting the abuse that happened there and… and for decades of covering it up afterwards. Can you have an apology that does not acknowledge those things?

PF: Well, people shouldn't forget that Pope Francis is the head of the Catholic Church. And when he speaks, he's speaking for the church. He is not speaking for himself [chuckle] as Pope Francis. He's representing the church. So those words reflected the interests of the Catholic Church worldwide and not just here at Vatican City. So we can quibble with the… the statement, but it is a powerful statement. And he made it clear to us that when he visits Canada this summer, he will expand on that statement.

GF: Because he did talk about a number of Catholics who committed the abuses. He did not talk about the institution of the church and the role that it played. Do you see that there's a difference there, or does it matter?

PF: Well, at this stage, an apology is what we were looking for. And, in my view, and in the… in the opinion of many, many others that were present there, this was the apology. As someone that's said many times, before I can begin my healing journey, I have to hear the Pope say I am sorry. The Pope today said I am very sorry. And so, those words will make it possible for a number of people, survivors, to begin their journey of healing. One can't impose this apology on any individual.

GF: Yeah. And in… in the hours since this has happened, have you been hearing from people back home? And are they telling you that it's good enough for them?

PF: I've heard from so many people. They're ecstatic. They're happy. I also didn't expect that there would be a 100 percent support for whatever we were able to achieve today. You know, the apology could have been a paragraph long or three or four or an entire page. It wouldn't have satisfied everyone, and that's fine. It's an individual choice at the end. But, in my view, the words we heard today will be sufficient for a good number of survivors that wish to begin healing. I mean, a journey of true healing.

GF: What was the conversation you had with the Pope when you met with him this week?

PF: We had a delegation that presented our issues to the Pope. And we presented or prepared a leave-behind document that we hope will educate and inform the Holy Father and Vatican officials and church officials so that when he comes to Canada in the summer, he will be well prepared to speak more expansively on the issue he addressed today.

GF: And what would you like him to expand on when he comes to Canada?

PF: Well, that's… how he expands on that statement will be… will be something that day determines. But in my opinion, I think we have to figure out what process we want to engage with… engage the Catholic Church to address these issues. Whether we're talking about artifacts at the Vatican Museum, whether we are talking about unmarked graves, access to school records and land-related issues, reparations, once we figure out what what we mean by reparations. Those… those are matters that… that have to be addressed in a very systematic, well-coordinated and organized way. And we can't leave that up to the church to determine the resolution of those issues. We want to be part of that process that brings about a fair and just resolution.

GF: Do you feel you have that commitment today from the church to do that, to go forward as partners on those very important issues?

PF: Well, for sure. I mean, you have to consider the… the fact that Canada is not by… by itself the only country that's dealing with this issue. The whole world has been watching for… for some time now, ever since the discovery of the 215 unmarked graves in Kamloops. So there's no place to hide with respect to this issue. No place to hide. And so, whatever process we construct will be, by necessity, a public and transparent process.

GF: All right. It's been a long week, but I really appreciate your time today, Mr. Fontaine. Thanks so much.

PF: Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. Take care.

GF: Bye-bye.

PF: Bye.

CH: Phil Fontaine is the former national chief of the Assembly of First Nations. He's in Rome. And we have more on the Pope's apology on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[cold in to next story]

Papal Apology: Riley Yesno

Guest: Riley Yesno

CH: Now, as you just heard, Mr. Fontaine acknowledges that not everyone will be impressed with the Pope's words. He's right. Riley Yesno is an Indigenous rights advocate and writer from Eabametoong First Nation. We reached her in Toronto.

GF: Ms. Yesno, we just heard Phil Fontaine say that he finally feels he got the apology he was looking for today from Pope Francis. What did you make of the Pope's words?

RILEY YESNO: Yeah, so I mean, personally, I… like, I'm sure most Indigenous people in this country were profoundly affected by residential schools and residential schools run by the church. My grandparents were both… are both residential school survivors. But you know, for me, the apology wasn't something that I put a lot of weight to for… for my own personal expectations or healing. Though I listen to Phil Fontaine's words, you know, and I recognize that that's not the case for every Indigenous person. Just like in 2008, when Stephen Harper offered his official apology for the government's roles in residential school. That was really profound for a lot of people to receive that recognition. So I'm happy that for those who needed it that they got it. But I'm really looking forward to the accountability now that I think that necessarily follows an apology in order for it to have weight.

GF: Is there something more you think the Pope could have said or should have said today to make this apology more meaningful?

RY: Yeah. So I mean, first looking critically at the language that he used, I think that there are things that are very deliberate about it. So, for example, it was clear that he was talking about some members of the church at a specific time in their roles in residential school, which is… is, you know, important, but also undermines the fact that the church continues to have a role in Indigenous affairs today, that there are ongoing impacts, that the church, the entire church, condones those happening at the time. And so, the focus of who is apologizing and for what, I think, could it be broader still. The other thing I think that they could have done is, you know, in addition to the recognition, which is all an apology really is, is saying that I recognize there's there some level of responsibility here is now going that extra step to say, okay, because I recognize, this is what I'm going to do about it, or this is some things we're thinking of doing or planning on doing. Now that said, I know that they're also planning to come to Canada in the coming months. So, in… in the time from now until then, I'm hoping that that's when they take the time to create those plans so that when they do arrive, there's something actionable they can present to Indigenous people.

GF: The genesis of this goes back to 2016. It was the 58th call to action in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission report, this call for an apology. And it was supposed to be… it was asked for within a period of one year. Why has this taken so long, do you think?

RY: Well, I mean, I think first of all, that the political atmosphere around Indigenous affairs and around reconciliation has changed profoundly since the time of the PRC reports now. You know, in just seven years, we have seen reconciliation come into a lot of people's public consciousness. You'll hear land acknowledgements all… all across Canada. It's something that is taught in schools. This is… this is vastly different from the, you know, Indigenous affairs landscape that say my parents or my grandparents grew up in. And so, there's a level of public pressure and public support around accountability that there wasn't even at that time. The other thing that I think is important to note here is that at the time when you say you're sorry, right, as I mentioned, that's a recognition, but there usually has to be something that follows. And so, my guess is also that at the time, they were not willing to commit to any sort of actionable response to an apology. So if they were to apologize, that would mean that they would have to do something about it. And perhaps at the time, that's not something that they wanted to do. My hope is that now, recognizing… recognizing that, that we will see, yes, as I mentioned, something actionable in the coming months.

GF: Well, what kinds of things are you talking about it? As Phil Fontaine just said, the whole world is watching now. There's no place for the Catholic Church to hide. What are your expectations of the church now?

RY: Yeah. So I mean, taking some reference also from Indigenous folks both at the Vatican, Indigenous commentators like Niigaan Sinclair, and also my own learning about, you know, the TRC, reconciliation the church's role, I would say some things that are coming primarily to mind are the return of documents and artifacts that the church has stolen and kept from Indigenous people for many years. Those have to be brought back to the hands of Indigenous people. The church still also owes $60 million from the IRS settlement of 2006. Those are material resources that also have to be in the hands of Indigenous survivors. The church owns a lot of land that was used for a lot of violent activities that I think should be also returned to Indigenous people. And there are ongoing legacies and ongoing actions that are very violent that we know take place in the church, sexual abuse, that there's still a lot of missionization that happens in Indigenous communities. These are things that the church needs to have a response on and investigations into. And so, that's sort of the things of import for me.

GF: All right. Well, it'll be interesting to see what happens in the months to come, but thanks so much for your time today.

RY: Yeah, thank you for having me.

GF: Bye-bye.

RY: Bye.

CH: Riley Yesno is an Indigenous rights advocate and writer from Eabametoong First Nation. She was in Toronto. You can read more and listen to both those interviews again on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih. And a national Indian Residential School Crisis Line has been set up to provide support for residential school survivors and those affected. The number is 1-866-925-4419.

[Music: Acoustic guitar]

Train 24 Passenger

Guest: Jo Kibble

CH: For Jo Kibble, travel isn't about the destination, it's about the journey. And about meticulously planning that journey to get as far as possible on one mode of transportation in one day exactly. If that sounds complicated -- well, it kind of is. But in principle, it's straightforward: last August, he set out to see how far he could get from his home in London, using only public bus routes. He mapped his itinerary out carefully, and tweeted his whole trip. And, to his surprise, his project blew up on Twitter. So this week, he did it again. Only this time, he wanted to see how far he could travel on trains in just 24 hours. We reached Jo Kibble in Syracuse, Italy.

GF: Jo, you started at St. Pancras Station in London, and you ended in southern Italy. How many countries did you touch in 24 hours?

JO KIBBLE: So, obviously, I started in Britain and then through the Channel Tunnel, headed east across France, almost to the German border and then south into Switzerland through the Alps under the Gotthard Pass and then into Italy itself. And then right down the very, very length of Italy, right down to the toe at the… at the very bottom, as you look… as you look at a map. So, it was… it was four countries, nine different trains. And in total, I think about 1,960 kilometres. And, as I say, completed in 24 hours with just 45 seconds to spare because the last train was slightly late.

GF: [chuckling] All right. So what inspired this? Why… why 24 hours?

JK: [chuckling] So this all began, and this is the second of these sort of things I've done. Back during the lockdown in 2020, I basically got very bored. I don't like sitting in one place. I like to travel around. I like timetables and planning and spreadsheets. So in the first instance, subsequent to international travel being impossible back then, I thought, why don't I try and work out how far I can get from London by bus in 24 hours by public bus?

GF: Um-hmm.

JK: And yeah, this was just… this was just something to keep me occupied, quite frankly. When lockdown lifted a bit, I undertook that, did an entire day on public buses from London, leaving Trafalgar Square at about 3:00 a.m. and ended up in a little seaside town called Morecambe in Lancashire. And this was incredible. I found it great fun. I saw an entire day of Britain's life. Then, you know, I love travelling in Europe by train. And again, something I was missing. As Europe starts to open up again, as the borders have reopened, as you know, the COVID restrictions have gone away, I thought, what better way to sort of celebrate this than let us do this again? Let's… let's see how far you can get from some St. Pancras in a 24 hour… 24 hour period and see if people are interested in that.

GF: How much planning went into this?

JK: Lots and lots. Every time you… you get off a train or bus in somewhere with quite a dense public transport system, as many European countries do. Obviously, there's other choice. You know, it's like a decision tree. Do you take train A, train B or train C? Which one's going to take you further? Which one is going to not lead you into a dead end, so to speak? So yeah, there's lots and lots of possibilities. And actually, it was to find that efficient use of time. You know, where were the trains fastest? Where were the connections going to be best to absolutely maximize the distance so that you're using the time as effectively as possible for this sort of challenge and absolutely maximize, you know, squeeze that last kilometre and that last minute out of it. So yes, it was several weeks with timetables, with maps, with spreadsheets. Frankly, I was in my element. So, you know, it's a good way of keeping me out of… out of mischief.

GF: But travel is often for the experiences.

JK: It is.

GF: And 24 hours is not a long time to have many experiences. [both chuckling] So what were the highlights?

JK: Well, you see, the thing is actually…, and this is why I love travelling by train in Europe is because it's so different to flying. Flying, you just hop on a plane, you hop, and you're somewhere else. On the train, you're watching things change out of the window just as you go. You see, the countries sort of mould together. You see the… you see the landscape change, you hear the language change, you hear the dialects change as you go… as you go along. And often, you know, the railways themselves, the railway networks, are little microcosms of the countries they serve. So, you know, Switzerland's railways are hugely efficient, just like Swiss people. The Italians, you know, they're very stylish. The trains look absolutely beautiful. And their high-speed trains are probably the most beautiful trains in Europe. But every now and again, it's a bit quirky, a little bit inefficient. France's is really great as long as you want to go to Paris. you pick up those things. So, for example, travelling across Switzerland in the dining car, I suddenly discovered that at 3 o'clock, everyone comes to the dining car to have a cup of peppermint tea. And the waiter was going round taking orders. And as part of the order, they were asking how long in seconds people wanted the teabag in their cup. [GF chuckles] So yeah, this is a fascinating little insight into the culture of the country that I wouldn't have got otherwise.

GF: Yeah.

JK: And the other great thing is the trains take you to these really interesting little places that you just wouldn't see otherwise. You know, I would never have gone to Bova Marina because it's an obscure town on an obscure coast in an obscure corner of Italy. But you know, it was absolutely fascinating to go there and find this place, which, yeah, has got grey volcanic beach and beautiful cliffs. And, you know, they don't even speak Italian. They speak a strange sort of Greek-based dialect because the ancient Greeks actually colonized that area over 2,000 years ago.

GF: Do you think that's why so many people started investing in your travels and following you on Twitter? Is it that you were providing them, like, I guess, a window into all of these places that they can't go or won't go?

JK: I think that's exactly it. And what it's shown is that there's a lot of pent-up wanderlust out there. You know, we've had two years where we can't… haven't been able to travel all that much. So yes, I think there was that. I think it's brought back a lot of memories to people because for a lot of people in Britain and I think in Europe… theres a train ticket called the Interrail Pass, and a lot of people buy that during their gap year or just before they go to university. So a lot of you have these sort of memories from their youth almost of travelling around on trains, being on sleeper trains, seeing new places, sort of meeting new people. And I think it brought a lot… a lot of that back to them as well. So yes, I think there's a real interest in it, a real source of interest in the sort of more sustainable modes of transport, especially for shorter journeys like… like a lot of those in Europe.

GF: So you've done 24 hours on a bus and now 24 hours on a train, [JK chuckles] what's next, Jo?

JK: Now, this is the question everyone keeps asking me, and I'm basically I'm trawling social media for ideas because these are the two obvious ones. I could go and hop on a plane to New Zealand for 24 hours, but I don't think that would be a very interesting live-tweeting experience, really. You know, I'd just be sitting there and telling people that they've come down with the drinks trolley again [GF chuckles], and I don't think that would get much… much of a following, quite frankly. So I don't know. Twenty-four hours on the canal boat, maybe. Twenty-four hours on a horse. I think these are… they are… [chuckling] there's some obvious ideas. But the bus and the train are the two obvious ones. So maybe… maybe I'll need a new format.

GF: All right. Well, keep us posted. And thanks so much for telling us about it today.

JK: My pleasure.

GF: Bye-bye, Jo.

JK: Bye-bye.

CH: Jo Kibble is an avid traveller from the U.K. We reached him in Syracuse, Italy. You can find more on this story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Disco?]

Ireland Police Beards

CH: They say that April showers bring May flowers. But no amount of rainfall will help, if your garden gets too much shade. And a police supervisor in Ireland is throwing some serious shade. Last year, there was a rule change in Ireland: police officers would be permitted to grow facial hair -- provided said facial hair was kept tidy, and between 0.5 and 2 centimetres in length. But one unnamed traffic inspector is bristling at the results. In an internal memo first reported earlier this week, the inspector cautioned that officers who cannot grow a proper beard in the span of two weeks should stop trying. According to RTE, he wrote: "If after that, the face still resembles a badly watered lawn in a heatwave, then it is time to concede graciously and admit defeat." Harsh. But this traffic inspector wants to make it clear that the new guideline should not be interpreted as, quote, "an excuse to take a break from shaving" -- reminding subordinates that "beards are not for everyone, after all." It's not clear what penalties await repeat offenders -- and how exactly the police will police the policy. But lest we be accused of splitting hairs, the long and the short of it is that not just any beard will do. And force members hoping to save face should know better than to tangle with the fuzz.

[Music: Folk jig]

Part 2: Amazon Union Vote, Colorado Kids Outdoor Play

Amazon Union Vote

Guest: Tristan Dutchin

CH: For years, Amazon has made its position on unions clear: it's against them. And it has done everything it can to prevent workers from unionizing -- using tactics that labour organizers have described as unfair. But today, in a first for Amazon workers in the U.S., staff at the company's Staten Island warehouse voted to unionize. Which is a big deal for them, and for a lot of other people too: it could signal a sea-change for labor organizing in the country and around the world. For Tristan Dutchin, it's the culmination of a year of work. He's an Amazon worker in Staten Island and an organizer for the Amazon Labor Union. We reached him in Brooklyn, New York.

GF: Tristan, we just pulled you out of a celebration with your fellow union organizers. What's the mood like after this vote?

TRISTAN DUTCHIN: You know, tensions are running high. Everyone's excited. We put a lot of time, dedication and commitment into unionizing a multi-billion-dollar corporation. And it's a very good feeling. Like, we're like the first ones to make history, in union history.

GF: Were you surprised by the vote?

TD: Yes, I was very surprised. I was, you know, nervous, you know, as they were doing the count. You know, it was heart-throbbing, as they would say.

GF: Yeah, but why were you surprised? You didn't think that you… you had the votes to carry this?

TD: I thought… that's what I thought, and it wouldn't make it, but we actually did. Because a lot of workers from Amazon support us. They support us, they support what we're doing, they do research, and they don't believe the propaganda that Amazon is telling them.

GF: So I understand you've worked at Amazon for just over a year as a picker. Tell us what… what's that job? What is a picker?

TD: So what… what you do is you stand up for like 12, 13 hours. You wait for one of those robot pods will bring you the items, the customer's items, you take it out of the pod, you put it in a tote, then you press the button to like ship the tote off. It's basically the same thing as what I'm doing, so.

GF: And you're doing that for 12-hour shifts?

TD: Yes.

GF: In doing that and working in the warehouse as you do, what did you see that convinced you that you needed a union?

TD: Um, well, the thing was that I've been constantly… when I first started working at Amazon, which was in March 2021, I've been, like, picked on and harassed, not in the hostile way, but just like more in an annoying way of productivity, me being away, stepping away from my station just to have a drink of water. I basically have been written up a couple of times. And I was just fed up. And due to the fear of, you know, the safety of my job or me being terminated, that's when I started to join the union because a lot of workers have been facing the same treatment as I was facing. So I felt that it was right for me to speak up and have… have a voice for the people to help fight for workers. The union has helped me grow as a person, grow as character and to make a difference in this world.

GF: Right. Now, but Amazon didn't make any of this easy for you. Tell me about the pushback you got? The kind of tactics that they used against the organizing efforts?

TD: Yeah. So we've experienced, encountered a lot of union busters, meaning that there are rich people infiltrating the Amazon workers. They'll travel from… from a different state or country to come to our site to spread lies and falsehood about the union to encourage workers to not join the union. And they get paid thousands of dollars a day, which is almost too close to a million, all just to spread lies. Another challenge is they would put up these anti-union signs and posts saying that, oh, we're a third party. The money that they make, we're out for your money. This is why you have, like some workers, that are very skeptical of the union. They don't… they don't want no part in it. They try to attack us in some way.

GF: Um-hmm.

TD: Another issue was Amazon called the authorities on three of my union comrades just for organizing, just for giving out food to workers.

GF: It looks like another Amazon union vote in Bessemer, in Alabama, will not succeed. I don't think we're going to know the results for a few weeks, for sure. But what do you think was the key to your success in New York?

TD: Just basically keep spreading the word out. We… I encourage everybody, everyone to do their research. Don't believe what a corporation is telling you. Always look for the facts for yourself. Don't be so quick to judge. Every job corporation needs a union. We need our voice. We need our voice to be heard. We need better working conditions, not just Amazon, but it could be all Amazon facilities or, you know, another, like, job chain or whatever it is, another business. You know, we need unions.

GF: Yeah, do you… do you think that this is going to be instrumental? And not just in terms of Amazon, but in terms of the union movement generally in the United States?

TD: Yes, 'cause the thing is, you know, everyone around the world is watching what we do. And we're pretty much like setting the foundation. We're setting the trend for other future corporations to, you know, follow what we do, unionize. We're like the first in history. And yeah, we're… we're setting a good example. You know, a lot of people are inspired by us, by the impact that we're making.

GF: Forming a union is… is one thing. Negotiating a contract with an employer is another. What is going to be at the top of your list when… when it comes to sitting down with Amazon management?

TD: Well, my priority is that Amazon has a more better like building clean, like… like better sanitation. Because, like, they're very dirty and filthy. And a lot of workers get sick off of it. There's many cases where Amazon workers pass out, and the ambulance has to come and pick them up.

GF: Really?!

TD: We need better… oh yes, it happens from time to time again. Every time the ambulance is showing up, it's because there's no real air ventilators in Amazon. It's a hot environment. Like, they give us these little, cheap fans. And do those do us no justice. And yeah, basically building sanitation and cleaning. Like, more cleaning and a spotless environment. That's what's my main priority.

GF: Right.

TD: So workers don't get sick.

GF: All right. Well, congratulations again, Tristan. And thanks for talking to us today.

TD: Oh, thank you.

GF: Bye-bye.

TD: All right. Bye-bye.

CH: Tristan Dutchin is an Amazon worker and union organizer in Staten Island. We reached him in Brooklyn, New York.

[Music: Glassy guitar riff]

No Mackerel Fishing

CH: It's a simple formula. To catch lobster, you need bait. And traditionally, fishermen have used mackerel and herring to lure the crustaceans in. But this week, the federal Fisheries Minister announced there would be no commercial or bait fishing for mackerel in Atlantic Canada and Quebec -- or for herring in the Gulf of St. Lawrence. Ottawa says the action is needed to give the stocks a chance to recover -- which will make the fishery more sustainable in the long term. Here are P.E.I. fisherman Jamie Bruce and Jeff MacNeill responding to that announcement, starting with Mr. MacNeill.

[sc]

JEFF MACNEILL: I was stunned. I was literally stunned. Like, everybody in the arena last night, I think our little town was just literally shocked. We need mackerel and herring to catch lobsters.

SHEEHAN DESJARDIN: What happens without it?

JM: Well, would you walk into KFC or McDonald's if they weren't serving food? Lobsters don't go into traps if there's no food in them. You have to bait the trap to get the lobster to go in, right?

SD: So what will you use?

JM: Well, that's what we're going to be, we'll be searching for, right? Like, there'll be some frozen bait on the go. But that'll only last so long. Last year, I bought a bunch of bait, and I had it stored away for the upcoming season, right? Like, it'll basically be a third or half of what I'll actually need. If you can't catch lobsters, [chuckling] you know what I mean? Like, you can't go to the grocery store. We got the lobster fishery set up pretty well for the lobster industry, but right now, like we're… we're pretty well going to be consumed with trying to find a bait source for this lobster fishery. Two years ago, when COVID first came out, basically everybody was locked in their homes. Lobster's a high-end seafood. Well, if you can't get out, you can't get on a cruise ship, you can't get into a fine dining restaurant. Obviously, lobsters are taken off the market, right? So people that could have been catching 1,000-1,500 fifteen pounds a day were limited to 300 or 400 pounds a day because there's no market, no sales. Now, there's a shortage on the market. The best year ever forecasted for the lobster industry for Atlantic Canada is coming up. And all of a sudden, they pull the bait away from us.

SD: Captain MacNeill, what do you want to see happen now?

JM: I would like to see the herring fishery and mackerel fishery opened back up to a limited amount. And I'd like to see the strainers taken out of the water. Definitely going to have a seal cull. We're the stewards of the sea, right? We're looking after it. Nobody's going to fish themselves out of business. That's just craziness!

JAMIE BRUCE: Hello. Good morning. My name is Jamie Bruce. I am a local fisherman from North Lake. We as industry beg for some change of heart or change of mind based on what we're seeing. Just because we're not seeing mackerel where I did 10 years ago or 20 years ago doesn't mean they're not there, we're seeing a large, large component of small mackerel, which is a great sign. Where does the small mackerel come from? They don't come from other small mackerel. They come from large spawning mackerel. The large spawners is what they're saying is not there. I disagree. They're just not looking in the right places. There is some fishermen like my son, who his main income comes from mackerel. Where's that going to come from now? He's got to turn to something else.

[/sc]

CH: P.E.I. fishermen Jamie Bruce and Jeff MacNeill, speaking with CBC reporter Sheehan Desjardin about the federal government's decision to stop mackerel and herring fishing in parts of Atlantic Canada and Quebec.

[Music: Electronic]

Colorado Kids Outdoor Play

Guest: Mary Young

CH: For some children, being able to walk to school by yourself is a rite of passage. But in Colorado, there was also a chance it could have been characterized as child neglect. Until this week -- when a new bill was signed into law, clarifying what exactly constitutes neglect -- and giving parents more say over their kids' independence. Mary Young is a Colorado state representative who co-sponsored the bill. We reached her in Denver.

GF: Representative Young, what can parents in Colorado now let their children do without fear of being accused of neglect?

MARY Young: Well, what we're hoping that they will do is really re-establish those patterns of letting children walk to school on their own and stay at home if their parents run errands and not worry that someone's going to call the parent in for neglect. For me, one of the biggest things that I hope that parents will do as a result of this bill is start to allow their children to play in their neighbourhoods with their friends or on their own, ride their bikes, as I used to do as a child, ice skate in the park a block away. Because we know that children who play independently away from their parents really learn some important life skills.

GF: But why was a law like this even necessary? What was preventing children from doing that anyway?

MY: Well, what we had seen in Colorado, and I believe there are other states who are pursuing this legislation, is we had a ballooning amount of people calling in for neglect to claim that neighbours or friends were neglecting their children. In 2019, it was about 3,600. And of those reports, 82 per cent were unsubstantiated. So parents and children are going through the trauma of this process of making sure that they weren't neglecting their children. We had one parent in child testify when the bill was heard. And the mother had been called into social services because her daughter was a runner, and she had allowed her to run around the block.

GF: And how old was the daughter?

MY: Nine years old.

GF: Uh-huh.

MY: This was very traumatic to the family.

GF: And why… why is that? Why has there been this kind of, I guess, hyper-vigilance around children being out on their own in Colorado?

MY: Well, I think it's across the nation, but I'm glad we're addressing it in Colorado. I think it's an increasing fear of strangers, or that parents are putting their children at risk if they give them the task of going to the neighbourhood store to buy milk for the family there. There really is a fear that parents are putting their children at risk by doing these things. And we know from research that children really benefit from this independence. And that increasingly, children are beginning not to be self-confident and don't trust their own judgement.

GF: Right. And before you were a politician, you were a school psychologist, I understand. So what… what effect do you hope that this bill will have and the independence that it grants children, I guess, confirms for children? What are you hoping the impact of that will be on their mental health, for instance?

MY: Well, I definitely see it is an avenue to improve mental health. Play really leads to children having much healthier social lives because they learn when they're playing with other children independent of adults, they learn to make their own decisions, solve their own problems, they create and enforce rules, and they negotiate differences. And especially in today's times, they maintain peace and order necessary for play to keep going without adult intervention, which really improves that child's sense of competency.

GF: Yeah. It's just such a commentary, I guess, on our times, isn't it, that this needs to be legislated now?

MY: Yes, it is really sad. And hopefully, this legislation will let parents feel freer to make the decisions that they wanted to make for their children. Because in the process of moving this legislation forward, we not only met parents who had been victimized by this, we also had met parents who told us they really restricted what they allowed their children to do because they feared this might have an impact on them and their families. And there was another important piece of information around neglect reporting in the state of Colorado, and across our nation, which is that, unfortunately, communities of colour and lower-income families are much more impacted by this than those from other communities.

GF: Meaning it's more likely that… that parents of those communities might be accused of neglecting their children?

MY: Right.

GF: Yeah. Is there any concern in your mind, though, that this might now stop people from calling police when they see children who may really be in some kind of danger?

MY: I'm really not afraid of that because I think really what it is is it puts the bar where it should be, instead of so low that just seeing a child alone and not trusting parents to make a decision about whether that is an appropriate thing to do and overreacting. I don't see that it will stop people from making those phone calls when they see children who are really at risk.

GF: All right. Well, thanks very much for your time and explaining it to us today. Thanks, Mary.

MY: Well, thank you for the call. I appreciate it. Have a great day.

GF: Bye-bye.

MY: Bye.

CH: Mary Young is a Colorado state representative, and co-sponsor of the bill. We reached her in Denver.

[Music: “Pass The Kutchie” by The Mighty Diamonds]

Tabby Diamond Obit

CH: It's not clear how The Mighty Diamonds, who you’re hearing right now, decided Donald "Tabby Diamond" Shaw would be their lead singer. I mean, there were only three of them, and they were all singers. But I imagine it was no decision at all. Because they all had beautiful voices -- but his was something else. It cut through like… a diamond. On Tuesday night, Donald Shaw was killed in a drive-by shooting in Kingston, Jamaica. He was 67. The three members of The Mighty Diamonds got together in 1969, and their vocal chemistry was instantaneous. Mr. Shaw described it as "a full-force trinity". If his wording has a spiritual connotation, that's fitting. All three were Rastafarians, and they were as likely to sing about social issues and the African diaspora as they were to sing about love. That central trinity of The Mighty Diamonds never changed over 50-plus years. And neither did Mr. Shaw, who remained a humble, quiet man even after decades of international success. In an interview this week, his one-time producer Gussie Clarke said, "...nothing was a problem to him, he didn't talk much. He would smoke weed and when it was time for him to sing, he was like a bird from heaven."

[Music: Uke!!!]

Part 3: Navigate Study, 1950 U.S. Census

Danielle Smith

CH: Danielle Smith isn't exactly running for the leadership of Alberta's United Conservatives. Not yet. She is, however, putting the concerns that some Albertans have about COVID restrictions at the centre of her not-quite campaign. The former Wildrose Party leader announced today that she's running for a seat with the United Conservatives. And she made it clear that she'll be voting against Alberta's premier, Jason Kenney, in the party's upcoming leadership review. Ms. Smith told reporters that she'd be delighted to take over if the top job opened up. And she offered some reasons why it should.

[sc]

DANIELLE SMITH: I'm also dismayed that the premier is calling all of his opponents, extremists and bigots and lunatics. Because I've spent a lot of time talking to Albertans over the last couple of years, and I think what is forgotten is that we've all gone through a collective trauma for the last two years. No one had any idea how to handle this when it first came about, which is fine. But as we started learning more and more about this virus, and looking at some of the red states in the U.S. and the approach that they were taking, I think people expected that we were going to follow suit and have more and more easing of restrictions. And just as we were getting to the finish line, we ended up with even harsher restrictions coming in. As we were looking like we were going to get out of it again in February, the federal government brought in even harsher restrictions. So if you're putting it in the context of people who have had marriages break down and family relationships break down. And friendships break down. And haven't been able to work or been fired from their jobs, haven't been able to go see their kids hockey games or to have their kids able to take part in sports. These are hurting people, and I would love to see a little bit of compassion and empathy about what everybody has been through so that we can identify some solutions and move towards that.

[/sc]

CH: Former Wildrose Party leader and now United Conservative Party candidate for the legislature Danielle Smith, speaking to reporters today.

[Music: Slow jazz]

Navigate Study

Guest: Hugo Spiers

CH: If you get lost every time you leave your house, you may not have yourself to blame. Or at least, not entirely. Instead, you can revert to a classic target of finger-pointing and blame your parents. Or even your grandparents. Because, as it turns out, where they decided to raise you matters a lot when it comes to navigation skills. Hugo Spiers is the lead author on a study in Nature this week that explores those connections -- and looks at how they can be applied to detect dementia. We reached Professor Spiers in London.

GF: Professor Spiers, I want to start by talking about the methodology. As I understand it, your research started by looking at how thousands and thousands of people played a particular cell phone navigation game. What were you trying to figure out?

HUGO SPIERS: Yeah, we'd… we'd known for a long time that one of the earliest symptoms in the development of Alzheimer's dementia is becoming lost, becoming disoriented. But it's very hard to test that. You know, if someone grows up in the middle of nowhere, then they're a very different experience to someone in the middle of a dense city. And when you go to test them, it's very hard in those two scenarios. So you really have to turn to virtual reality to create somewhere that you can test everybody in the world on some unified test. And so, we've had the capability to build virtual environments for a long time. Obviously, getting better and better. But the big challenge is getting people to then do that and then to build up a big pool benchmark of how well people navigate so that you can say definitively, here's someone who's a certain age and gender and how do they perform on a test?

GF: Mm-hmm.

HS: So we knew that… we knew that… that was the… that was the reason we ended up building our video game, Sea Hero Quest. And it was the perfectly built video game. So it wasn't a group of scientists sitting around going, oh, how could we build a video game. It was a games company, and we had to… we had to slip the science under the bonnet of the… of the game. And we tested over four million people who took part in the experiment.

GF: Four million. Wow! Well, what patterns emerged about who was good at the game?

HS: Well, yeah, that's… that was the key… key question. So we could see in the early work we did that the navigation skill declines from the early 20s onwards. So there's not a certain point in life where you suddenly get a lot worse. It just… [chuckling] just gets worse. Men had a slight advantage, but that advantage is minimal in Finland and Norway and places where people were trained to navigate as children. But it's big in some other countries. So, we could… we could look at the gender differences and the tasks and to be linked to the societal differences and inequality. But in this new study we've just published in Nature, we asked another very different question to a lot of the normal studies. We said, did you grow up in a city or in a rural setting? Or somewhere between? Or maybe the suburbs?

GF: Um-hmm.

HS: And so, we were able to hone in on just over 400,000 people that answered the question and who we could tell were valid players. And that's then where we've… we've dealt in and discovered an important new finding, which is that that question matters. We found that people who grew up... reported growing up in cities, were navigating worse than people who grew up out of cities. It was particularly pronounced in a group of countries you could spot in the data. And when we looked at those countries, we started to notice a pattern. So the U.S. and Canada are big, important countries there. But Argentina also really stood out, and Saudi Arabia, and some other countries. And we thought, well, what is it about these countries? And we realized it was likely the way that the cities are laid out. In Canada and the U.S., there's a lot of great laid-out cities. They are very griddy.

GF: So help me here with what the conclusion was? If you grew up in a city where things were neatly organized, you are a better navigator or worse navigator?

HS: So in our video game, on average, you'd be a worse navigator. The people who grew up in a grid were worse. However, we didn't… we found it wasn't just the case that grids, growing up in a griddy city like Toronto, it's not… it's not bad for you. [chuckle] It's that it adapts you to being good at navigating grids as opposed to everywhere.

GF: So, if you find yourself in Barcelona or Paris or even London, which are notoriously complex cities to… to navigate, you'd be in trouble?

HS: Exactly. Whereas if I'm from London, and I want to go to Chicago, and someone from Toronto joins me, I would be more, on average, I would be better off asking the person from Toronto for guidance because they're used to navigating the grid in Toronto. What this paper is showing is that your environment matters when you grow up. And it's not… it's where you grew up. We asked people later in the study, where do they live now? Do they live in the city or not? And it made no difference. So if you grew up in town, in a rural setting, and moved to a griddy city, then, you know, it won't it won't change your navigation performance. It's the development period that seems to be important for us.

GF: And yet, you look at young people today, younger people today, and they're most often, it seems, reaching for their phones to navigate for them. So, what did… how did they perform on the game?

HS: That's a good question. So in the data we published, we can see there is a widening of this effect later in life. And that may not just be to do with, you know, natural ageing. It may be that this is a cultural thing over time. But it's not a sort of sudden change. There's a sort of lifelong effect of whether you grew up in a city or not a city. But you're right. It is something that will be fascinating over the next 10 years to follow and see can we track changes in people when they… as they develop, let's say, in their navigation skill? It's something we need to do. These are difficult things to do, but we need to get on. And we've… we've cracked millions of people. Now it's time to start chasing thousands over their… their life, really, if we can.

GF: And initially, you said that this was all in… to further research into developing a better test for early dementia. What… what is that connection then?

HS: Oh, that's right. So… so going back to the idea that this is… this is like a test. It gives us a kind of a performance metric. One way to think about the tests we're doing, I keep thinking, it's like baby growth charts. If you get a baby that's born, you work out, are they healthy? Are they a good weight? And you need to know from lots of past evidence recording the babies to know what that chart should look like. What we've done here is for trying to… to find people who are not well, who have… who may have Alzheimer's dementia, Alzheimer's disease, where where would be not normal on this chart for… for navigation skill? And it's by testing hundreds of thousands of people we can pinpoint that. So what… what this new discovery is saying is a bit like you need to separate out baby boys and baby girls. It might be useful to separate out people who grew up in cities and outside cities for a chart that tells you what you might expect for the performance someone should do for… for a test of navigation. If that makes sense?

GF: It does. Well, thank you. It's fascinating stuff, and I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to us today.

HS: Pleasure. Glad to chat to you. Thank you very much.

GF: Bye-bye.

HS: Bye.

CH: Hugo Spiers works at University College London, which is where we reached him. He's the lead author of a new study connecting the place you grew up to your ability to navigate.

[Music: Calypso]

Ukrainian Woman Stuck In Cuba

CH: Normally, if you visit Cuba, you might bring back some rum, cigars, or some kind of authentic local knic knack. But after Vladimir Diordiev and his wife Cristina visited Cuba, they brought home a stranger. During their vacation, the Calgary couple met Tatiana -- a Ukrainian who was stranded in Cuba because of the war. The Diordievs decided to help her. And now, Tatiana is living with them in Calgary.

[sc]

VLADIMIR DIORDIEV: It was an on-the-spot decision because we are originally from the neighbouring country of Moldova. And Moldova is opening also the doors to many refugees. We are aware of what was going on. And then, meeting Tatiana, they are running out of options and money. And, you know, Cuba not having the best internet and access to computers and so on, she was in a very difficult situation deciding where to go. And there were other Ukrainians, as well as the one deciding on their own how to get out and finding ways. So, me and my wife looked at each other and said, when we’re at home we can probably offer if she can make it to Canada.

ROB BROWN: Wow! And they were all there on vacation, too?

VD: That was a group of probably 26 Ukrainians. People come for a week or 10 days, and then they are expected to go back. But that wasn't the case.

RB: What did it take to get Tatiana here?

VD: [chuckling] That was new for us. Of course, and new for her. So, some Canadians in the resort told her that Canada will be opening a specific program, and then she encountered technical problems because it's very hard to do it from a cell phone in Cuba where you need to do that application. And we helped her through the computer here and talking with her. It took a couple of days. After she got the visa, she was here. All together, a week and two days.

RB: So just to recap. You… you met this woman at a resort, desperate because she's running out of money and you say, look, I got this place in Calgary. Happy to have you there. You fly back and she stays there and navigates trying to enter Canada without the technology that most of us are used to and eventually makes it to Calgary. That is quite a tale. Good for her.

VD: Yes. And we also paid for the ticket because she had no options.

RB: Wow!

VD: And we are also waiting for another fellow from the same group who decided to go to Poland and apply from there.

RB: You're going to take him in too?! And how is Tatiana adjusting here in Calgary?

VD: Oh, she's adjusting very well. She could not believe… she said, it's like a dream to me. You know, the shock and everything. And, you know, being so stressed. And then, here every day is seeing kind people helping her and connecting her with the resources. It's… it's overwhelming, but in a positive way.

[/sc]

CH: That's Vladimir Diordiev speaking with the CBC's Rob Brown on the Calgary Eyeopener.

[Music: Vocalization]

Sudbury Homeless People Moved

CH: Santana Nahwegezhic spent the day packing. Not just her belongings -- but her home as well. For several months, she's been living in a complex of tents and tarps in Memorial Park, in Sudbury, Ontario. But earlier this month, the city gave her and the park's other residents until the end of the day on April 1st to clear out. Which is today.

[sc]

SANTANA NAHWEGEZHIC: I've been living here for… before the snow started falling. And I stayed out here all winter. I wasn’t even cold. There's always problems in shelters. Like, people are always stealing off each other and your important stuff keeps getting stolen. Stolen, plus, there’s nowhere to really sleep. When you go to Out of the Cold; it's sitting up. At least in my tent, I can lay down and be comfortable. Where there, I wouldn't be as comfortable. Usually, like when it's really cold, that's why I built it so big. So people can come in and get out of the cold. And there's like a storage area, there's a living room area and two bedroom areas. I just thought sometimes my tent was going to blow away, my structure thing, but it never did. Because I actually built beams inside of there. So they're going to have fun tearing it down [laughing]. The city did give me a hotel room, but my roommate, they never got him one yet. He's going to… he doesn't know what he's going to do. He's kind of happy for me, but bummed all at the same time because he tried to ask for help and they said he has to wait a little bit. Why can't they help him too? I have a housing worker working with me to get my housing, get some housing. I do have a plan. I want to get my son back. Yeah. So I'm trying to get off the streets and be… I don't know, get clean and all that stuff.

[/sc]

CH: That was Santana Nahwegezhic in Sudbury, Ontario, speaking to our colleague Angela Gemmill.

[Music: Sombre]

1950 U.S. Census

Guest: Matt Menashes

CH: Have you ever been to a party where you see someone, and you know you've met them before, but you can't remember their name? Or maybe you want to regift that fidget spinner someone gave you five years ago, but you can not recall who gave it to you in the first place? If only there were some way to keep track of such vital information. Well, luckily, the National Archives and Records Administration has been keeping track of things for almost two-and-a-half centuries. In the form of the census. And this news won't help Americans with that fidget-spinner business -- but today, at 12:01, the Administration released a treasure trove of records from 1950, documenting the lives of some 150 million Americans. Matt Menashes is the executive director of the National Genealogical Society. We reached him in Silver Spring, Maryland.

GF: Mr. Menashes, what does the release of all these records today mean for genealogists?

MATT MENASHES: Well, you know, this is like the Super Bowl and the Olympics together, combined, for us. This is a big day in the genealogy world because it only happens once every 10 years. Really exciting, particularly for those of us who have parents who were born in the 1940s. We finally get to see them in the census rolls. So, very cool stuff for us.

GF: [chuckles] Well, what was the first thing you looked up when you had access to all these records?

MM: Oh, my… my dad, I immediately when I woke up this morning, I did not stay up till midnight last night to do this, but when I woke up this morning, I checked on my dad. Found my grandparents living on Findlay Avenue in the Bronx, New York, with my dad as a nine-year-old and his sister as a 12-year-old. And I'd seen her on the 1940 census. But, of course, my dad wasn't born until 1941, so now I've got him too.

GF: So, what kind of records are we talking about?

MM: Well, it's… you know, it's really interesting. The 1950 census records have information about the people living in a household. It has a little bit of information about their age, obviously their address, their race and generally their occupation. So if you have adults, it'll say where they were working or if they weren't working. It's very cool to see my grandfather listed as a butcher in New York City in 1950, which was the same thing he was listed at in 1940, but it just confirms that he was continuing to do the same work that he had been doing all his life.

GF: Right. And I think there's 151 million people that information was… was released about from the census. I can understand why, too, historians and maybe sociologists, you know, this would be interesting material, but what do you think it means for individuals and those, as I say, who are interested in genealogy?

MM: You know, for… for genealogists, we're not only interested in the records and the data, but the ability to tell our stories, right? Our stories about our families, and to be able to leave those stories not only for our children, but for our children's children, right? We want to be able to leave a legacy of information and stories about these families. So, it's one thing to know who your grandparents were, but it's another thing to know what they were doing. What was it like in New York City, in the Bronx, in the 1950s? What was it like to be a butcher in the 1950s? So we can take this data from a census record, you know, that's all it really is, is data and turn it into a life, turn it into a story to be able to tell that story. And that's why we do what we do.

GF: And it's a growing field. I mean, we… we see it all around us, don't we? I mean, there seems to be a real, intense interest in understanding those stories. Why do you think that is?

MM: Well, you know, I think a lot of folks in the genealogy community recognize that you know, while this field has been around, you know, our… our organization, for instance, has been around since 1903. The real growth in genealogy really began in the late 1970s, and a lot of people trace that to the release of Alex Haley's Roots, right? The book.

GF: And then later, the miniseries.

MM: The miniseries.

GF: The miniseries, of course, yeah.

MM: Right. Because that's what Roots was, was a family history of Alex Haley's family. And so, people got interested. And at about the same time, computers were taking off. And just everything kind of came together and gelled into this tremendous interest in genealogy. And it's just continued to this day. And it seems like every 10 years or so, aside from the census, there's something new, something exciting, something unique that just makes genealogy explode. And whether that is over the last 10 years, interest in looking at your DNA and finding your relatives through DNA, to even more complex issues of families in non-traditional structures, right?

GF: You mentioned technology. How does today's technology help us understand all these records?

MM: Well, what's interesting for me is the 1940 census, which came out 10 years ago. The process to take that information, that data, and make it available in digital records was very manual. When the census was released by the National Archives and Records Administration, the data would be gobbled up by some companies, and then they spent lots of time reviewing that data and indexing it with manual assistance. This year, a lot of the initial work is being done by artificial intelligence. So the first pass through trying to turn handwriting into digital information is being done by computer. And humans now are doing quality assurance checks, right? They're going back into those records to see, did the computer get it right? Is Tom really Tony? Being able to decipher that handwriting isn't something computers are perfectly great at. But now, the data will be up and available much faster. In fact, a lot of the information was digitized already by NARA -- National Archives and Records Administration. And you can search by those names immediately. Ten years ago, you weren't able to do that.

GF: Yeah. Amid all that data, there's obviously a lot of facts.

MM: Yeah.

GF: I suspect there's also a lot of potential fun. Give us a taste. What… what are you going to be searching in the days and weeks to come?

MM: Well, you know, we're all starting with our families. But as we get through with that work, then, you know, we can get into some interesting things. I grew up in a… in a small town in Newark, Delaware. We have one famous person who is from Delaware. I know he was living there in the 70s when I was just down the hill when I was a little kid. But now I get to find out if the rocker George Thorogood was living up the hill in 1950.

GF: [chuckling] It's been a burning question?

MM: It has been! It's so cool. [GF chuckles some more] He was born earlier that year, so it's very likely he will… he will be on those census rolls.

GF: All right. Well, have a great time. Knock yourself out. [MM chuckles] And thanks so much for talking to us today.

MM: No problem. Thanks so much, Gillian.

GF: Bye-bye.

MM: Take care. Bye-bye.

CH: Matt Menashes is the executive director of the National Genealogical Society. He was in Silver Spring, Maryland.

[Music: Slow jazz]

Tower Of Song

[Music: “Tower of Song” BY Leonard Cohen]

CH: He always got a laugh when he sang that line. Because Leonard Cohen's voice wasn't what you'd call stereotypically golden. So it was funny when he first sang it in his early 50s, on the 1988 album I'm Your Man. And it was funny when he performed it into his 70s. Tower of Song is a funny song. It's got weird jokes about Hank Williams, and aching in the places where you used to play. And there's the part where he sings "there's a mighty judgment coming -- but I might be wrong." But it's also serious: it's about ageing, and facing the fact that your golden voice will one day fall silent. Leonard Cohen excelled at those kinds of bittersweet songs. And so does Willie Nelson. So it's fitting that he covers Tower of Song on his forthcoming record, due out later this month. It'll be his 72nd album. And, not to read too much into it, but the title, A Beautiful Time -- not to mention the cover, where he's walking off into what's either the sunrise or the sunset -- suggest maybe Willie is contemplating retirement, at 89. Let's hope not. Although he definitely has nothing left to prove: by now, he's living rent-free in the tower of song.

Back To Top »

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

April 01, 2022 Episode Transcript

More Stories Like This