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The AIH Transcript For March 15, 2022

[hosts]Gillian Findlay, Chris Howden[/hosts]

GILLIAN FINDLAY: Hello, I'm Gillian Findlay.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden, this is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

GF: Fighting words. One of Volodymyr Zelensky's former aides tells us that when it comes to helping Ukraine, fears of provoking Vladimir Putin should be weighed against what the Russian President already has planned.

CH: Generals’ consensus. After two retired Canadian generals argued NATO can establish a no-fly zone over Ukraine, we'll ask one of them whether it's really worth the risk of war with Russia.

GF: Babes and arms. Child cancer patients in Ukraine have been forced to abandon their hospital beds -- so a group of Canadians is helping get them to a Toronto hospital.

CH: Parton is such sweet sorrow. For everyone who is looking forward to seeing the great Dolly Parton inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, her decision to remove herself from consideration has really struck a chord.

GF: Open and shut case. We'll speak to the man who started what he calls "the stupidest debate" of all time -- by asking whether there are more doors or wheels in the world.

CH: And… she's quick! Just check the spudometer. A British teen breaks the world record for fastest assembly of a Mr. Potato Head -- a strange accomplishment, but she managed to keep a straight face.

CH: As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that loves a good spectator sport.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Former Zelensky Advisor, Ukraine Kids To Canada, Mr. Potato Head Record

Former Zelensky Advisor

Guest: Igor Novikov

CH: Volodymyr Zelensky wants Canada's help. The Ukrainian president's capital was being bombarded and negotiations with the Russians were set to start again, but Mr. Zelensky still managed to squeeze in an address to Canada's parliament via video link. Here's some of what he said.

SOUNDCLIP

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKY: Can you only imagine? Imagine that at 4:00 a.m. you... you start hearing bomb explosions, severe explosion. Justin, can you imagine hearing you, your children, hear all these severe explosions? Bombing of airport, bombing of Ottawa airport. Tens of other cities of your wonderful country? Can you imagine that? Cruise missiles are falling down, and your children are asking you what happened? We are not asking for much. We are asking for justice, for real support, which will help us to prevail, to defend, to save lives, to save lives of all of the world. At least understand how important it is for us to close our airspace from Russian missiles and Russian aircrafts. I hope you can understand. I hope you can increase your efforts. You can increase sanctions, so they will not have a single dollar to fund their war effort.

CH: Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky making a video address to the Canadian parliament. Igor Novikov is a former advisor to President Zelensky. We reached him in Kyiv.

GF: Mr. Novikov, that was your president today, speaking to Canada's parliament, once again calling on Western countries to impose a no-fly zone over Ukraine. As you know, this is something Western countries, NATO, has rejected for reasons that they've been very clear about. That they feel this was only going to make things worse. Why does he continue to… to raise this?

IGOR NOVIKOV: Well, look, from our perspective, it seems obvious that this conflict goes way deeper than Ukraine and Russia. You know, from what we're seeing, you know, from the atrocities and from the sheer scale of what's going on on the ground, it's unlikely that Putin will stop unless he's stopped. So I think, you know, refusing to close down our airspace and kind of avoiding potential conflict with Putin is just postponing the hostilities, not… not avoiding them. So I keep saying that for President Putin in any pretext is a non sequitur. So, you know, he acts preemptively and in an unprovoked manner, so he's never going to fight you unless he's decided to fight you, and he will fight if he's decided, regardless of any pretext or provocation. So in that sense, any loss of life from bombardments and from cruise missiles of Ukrainian civilians is unnecessary and a terrible tragedy. That's why the president is not giving up on trying to convince the West to help us on that front.

GF: Does this suggest that he is getting some indication from the West that this might be possible despite the public comments to the contrary?

IN: Look, I mean, you'll have to ask him because it's… that kind of information that's highly classified. I think… I think it doesn't matter whether he's getting any indications or not because, you know, if… if there's the smallest chance of trying to prevent loss of human life, he's going… he's going to jump at that chance. And, you know, he's like that. I keep saying, I mean, I've known him for a while, and you know, human life is, you know, one of his top priorities. I mean, I remember we had this really interesting situation once when we were about to get on the phone call with Vice President Pence at the time, and there was a hostage situation in Kyiv. And first of all, the president nearly hung up the phone and nearly kind of decided we're going to deal with a hostage situation. And when we convinced him that, you know, it's necessary to take that phone call, he called the minister of interior and said, look, do anything possible to prevent loss of human life, including the perpetrator. So he's like that, and you know, it's our children that are dying. I mean, nearly 100 children have been killed that we know of. That's very important to understand. The real… the real scale of, you know, civilian deaths will only be uncovered once this is over, unfortunately.

GF: We are now 20 days into it, and discussions are happening about how this might end. Today, it was… Mr. Zelensky was quoted as saying that Ukraine realizes it will not become a member of NATO. Is this him stepping back from his previous statements on this?

IN: Well, look, President Zelensky, I keep describing him as a human being in the world of politicians, so he's incredibly sincere and straightforward about, you know, his standing on any given issue. So I think he's just stating the obvious. I mean, Ukraine's been adamantly trying to become a member of NATO since many years ago. And, you know, we've been told conflicting things. So we basically we're being told that, you know, the doors to NATO are open. Russia has no say over that. And you know, it's in our constitution. But at the same time, any efforts towards NATO membership falls on deaf ears.

GF: But that is a condition that President Putin has… has put on negotiations that… that Ukraine must not become a member of NATO. So does this suggest that perhaps there is an opening for a negotiated end to this conflict?

IN: Well, I mean, if… if there's any chance of getting anything out of diplomacy, that chance should be taken. At the same time, look, I think regardless of what happens in terms of our NATO membership, it's NATO that's kind of losing here because in effect, what's happening here is that fear and indecisiveness, you know, when faced with a potential conflict with President Putin, that fear has been weaponized by President Putin to weaken NATO. So the fact that Ukraine is being denied NATO membership because, you know, the West is de facto afraid of President Putin. I mean, let's state the obvious here.

GF: He has also said in an interview he gave recently with ABC in the United States that not only might he be prepared to give up on NATO, but also perhaps on Crimea and the breakaway eastern regions. And he was quoted as saying, we have the possible resolution for those three items. Do you know what that possible resolution is? What it looks like?

IN: Well, I mean, so far, the president's office and the people of Ukraine have been explicitly clear. There's no way we're giving up on our territories, on our people and on our sovereignty. So I think, you know, the NATO situation is probably the one closest to compromise because… and not because Ukraine doesn't want to be a member of NATO, but because NATO is denying Ukraine the opportunity at the moment.

GF: Mr. Novikov, you have said that Ukraine will only survive if people pay attention. If the West pays attention. We are… we are now at day 20. Time passes. Invariably, the world's attention fades and moves on to other things. How… how can he, how can Ukraine continue to… to hold on to our attention as this continues?

IN: Oh, I think President Zelensky is perfectly equipped for that because of his show business background and the people around him, who I believe to be among the top experts, you know, in this new phenomenon called the attention economy. So I mean, we stand a pretty good chance. But you know, as a human being, you know, as a citizen of the world, I really hope that you know, people dying unnecessarily and children dying unnecessarily will be enough as a reason for people not to turn away because of a new rock album or something. So I hope, you know, humanity will prevail in that attention field as well.

GF: Thank you so much for your time today.

IN: Thank you.

GF: Bye-bye.

IN: Bye.

CH: Igor Novikov is a former advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. We reached him in Kyiv. And you can find more on that story at our website. That's at: www.cbc.ca/asithappens.

[Music: Glassy guitar riff]

Ukraine Kids To Canada

Guest: Brian Macdonald

CH: For those trying to flee the invasion of Ukraine, leaving the country is dangerous and challenging. But the path to safety is especially precarious for a group of young cancer patients forced to leave their hospital beds during the conflict. In the coming days, some of those children and their families are expected to arrive at SickKids hospital in Toronto. Brian Macdonald is the executive director of Aman Lara -- one of the groups that's helping transport the children from Poland. We reached Brian Macdonald in Fredericton, New Brunswick.

GF: Mr. Macdonald, what can you tell us about these children who you are helping to bring to Canada today?

BRIAN MACDONALD: Well, Gillian, these are children that have come from hospitals around Ukraine. They've been evacuated out of Ukraine by Ukrainian efforts. And you can only imagine how difficult that journey must have been. And they've arrived at Poland, where they're… they're being assessed and triaged by a medical team, and they're going into other hospitals. And so up until now, those… those children have gone into hospitals in Europe, and we're looking at taking the first several children and their families from Poland to Canada. And we're hoping that this will open up a pipeline where we can ensure that more children come to Canada.

GF: Is that because Poland just can't deal with the number of children that are coming in?

BM: Yeah, the clinic is… is a temporary facility that is designed to, you know, triage people and move them on. And those, you know, the majority of children are being pushed into hospitals across Europe. And so there's capacity there. But we also need to take some of that pressure off by bringing them here to North America. And so I think we're looking at the first flight of some children to Canada in the next few days, and hopefully, that's the first of many to come.

GF: Tell me a little bit about the logistics. How complicated has it been to… to identify these children, get them onto a plane and ultimately get them to Canada?

BM: Yeah. Well, I mean, Aman Lara cut its teeth in Afghanistan, you know, over the last six months, and we've evacuated more than 2,000 people from Afghanistan. So we're… we're getting good at the business of evacuations. But this is a whole other level. I mean, this is, first of all, it starts with a war where we didn't quite, you know, different situation in Afghanistan. And then we're liaising with… with medical professionals on the ground. We haven't really done so many medical evacuations before, so that's another level. And then the fact their children, of course, is challenging. They're, you know, much more fragile, and, you know, their medical complications are significant. And so, you know, all of those levels [chuckle] have made it a much more difficult process to get our heads around. But you know, in… in less than 10 days, we've gone from an idea to potentially having children and families on a plane.

GF: Who's providing that plane?

BM: Yeah, it's… it's provided through our partners, Reticle Ventures. They work with aircraft providers, and it's been funded by Richard Hamm, who's a prominent Canadian. And the donations of many Canadians. And so, it's really incredible. And we've actually now secured another million dollars for follow-on aircraft. And so, this is private donor money.

GF: Private donor money. And another million is… is also privately donated?

BM: It's been privately donated, yeah. And we're also canvassing Canadians. We have a website, www.evacuations.ca. And we're encouraging people to make donations there.

GF: With so many people in need right now in Ukraine, just simply to get out and then the refugees who are in Poland and other countries surrounding, what made you decide to focus on helping these young cancer patients in particular?

BM: Well, we have already evacuated a family from Ukraine, we've evacuated an interpreter, and we are continuing to to identify people that we can help. But this case stood out because we saw those terrible scenes of hospitals being bombed in Ukraine. And then there was a Canadian connection. We identified that SickKids Hospital in Toronto was willing to take these patients, and so we started building it from there. And it's been an incredible partnership. The government of Canada has been very supportive. And together, you know, like I say, [chuckle] in… in sort of little more than a week, we took this from an idea to… to a reality.

GF: Yeah. You mentioned Afghanistan and the tremendous work that your group has done there over the last number of months trying to help Afghans come to Canada. What lessons have you learned from that experience that you think can be applied to this one?

BM: Well, we've learned about how to navigate the process. You know, I've spent a lot of time with government, and that's part of the challenge. And in Afghanistan, you're dealing with three governments: Afghanistan, Canada and a third country, you know? So we've learned how to kind of bob and weave through that system and get results. And most importantly, we've developed our relationship with key stakeholders, people like Reticle Ventures, people like the government of Canada officials. So we know who to talk to... to move these things very quickly. And we've been able to turn this stuff around pretty quickly.

GF: You mentioned the SickKids Hospital in Toronto. Is this just the beginning? Will you be expanding to other hospitals in the country? Is that your hope?

BM: That is our hope. I mean, that is being led by SickKids, and we want to support that effort as much as possible. So when they tell us they can absorb the patients, we're going to move them.

GF: How many patients are coming on this flight? Do you know, Brian?

BM: I don't. It's been in flux. I know it's sort of a handful of patients and families. It's a small plane. That's the thin edge of the wedge. We think we can… once we establish this link, we can… basically, we're going to try and build an air bridge. And our dream is to have medical supplies going over, which SickKids has provided. And then we'll be bringing patients back. And ideally, you know, we'll move them to other hospitals around Canada.

GF: All right. Well, good luck to you and thanks for your hard work.

BM: Thanks so much, Gillian. You take care.

GF: Bye-bye.

BM: Bye.

CH: Brian Macdonald is the executive director of Aman Lara -- one of the organizations working to bring a group of young Ukrainian cancer patients to Toronto's SickKids hospital. We reached Mr. Macdonald in Fredericton.

[Music: Vocalization]

Mr. Potato Head Record

Guest: Matilda Walden

SOUNDCLIP

MR. POTATO HEAD: Where's my nose?

MRS. POTATO HEAD: Here it is.

MR. POTATO HEAD: Here's your arms.

MRS. POTATO HEAD: Give me that!

MR. POTATO HEAD: Honey, the moustache! These toddlers! They don't know how to play with us!

CH: The grumpy but loveable Mr. Potato Head and before him, Mrs. Potato Head, from Toy Story 3. Now, the novelty of the toy, of course, is that children can stick on the potato's eyes, nose, mouth and moustache. Some kids arrange the face in the traditional manner: eyes where the eyes generally go, nose where the nose goes. Some kids slap the features on wherever. But no one -- kid or adult -- can build that potato's face faster than Matilda Walden. The 13-year-old set the Guinness World Record for assembling a Mr. Potato Head in 5.69 seconds. We reached Matilda in Lancaster, England.

GF: Matilda, congratulations on your record.

MATILDA WALDEN: Thank you.

GF: I understand it was just recently you found out that you are now a… officially, a Guinness World Record holder. What was it like to get that email?

MW: Oh, it was just awesome! It was like, I am a world record holder. I never could believe I would do that.

GF: And is it something you always wanted to do? To be a world record holder?

MW: Well, I just never really thought it was possible for me. I never really thought I would do that. And then I suppose I have done so. So it's just awesome! I never really thought I was going to do that.

GF: [warmly laughing] You underestimated yourself?

MW: A little bit, yeah.

GF: So what came first? Did you want to be a world record holder, or was it the Mr. Potato Head?

MW: Um, I was basically just looking through world records, you know, just having something to do because I had some spare time, just looking… watching videos. And I came across it and thought, oh, that can't be too hard! [GF chuckles] So I had a Mr. Potato Head near me, and I just gave it a go, and it was quite hard.

GF: It was harder than you thought?

MW: Oh, yes, it was. I had so much commitment to do it.

GF: So tell me about how… how you went about training? How do you get faster at doing this?

MW: Um, well, my mother timed me every single time. And I basically just tried different techniques.

GF: Um-hmm?

MW: So at the beginning, I was just putting together randomly until I finally found a technique inputting, like, different bits in at the same time.

GF: Can you describe that for me?

MW: Like, for example, I put the arms in together on both sides at the same time and the ears both at the same time. And in the beginning, I put… I'd take… you know, because of the moustache and the nose are separate. So I need to put them together. So I'm picking them, putting them together and picking up my mouth and eyes and then putting them together. And then I'm picking up the Potato Head to put on its body and putting a hat on.

GF: Wow! And all of that, in what, 5.69 seconds?

MW: Yeah!

GF: Wow, and how big an improvement was that from the first time you tried?

MW: Oh, a massive improvement, about probably about 10 seconds' improvement.

GF: Wow! Well, that's impressive. How often did you train? How many hours a day?

MW: I did different times because I needed to find out the best time that I was in the day to do it at. And my best time was about in the afternoon, about 3:00.

GF: Uh-huh.

MW: And so, I just practised like in the morning, and in afternoon and evening, about half an hour, I don't know. It was like ages. The amount of times I did it was just unbelievable.

GF: [laughing] And how many months did it take you to get it down to 5.69 seconds?

MW: I think about three months. I did actually do it in five seconds, but that wasn't official, but I did actually do it in five seconds.

GF: Why were afternoons best for you, do you think?

MW: I don't know, to be honest. I mean, I'm not really a morning person, I must admit. But I don't know, to be honest. I suppose I was just better then.

GF: So, I understand that until you came along, there was another world record, Guinness World Record, and that stood for 10 years. Did you examine and study how that person had… had done this? And did you learn from that?

MW: Um, well, they didn't have a video or anything like that or any pictures or anything. And it was in 2010, and their record was 6.62, so I did knock a bit off it. But no, there was nothing.

GF: Well, I don't quite know how the Guinness World Records work, but I gather you actually set a day where you actually make your final attempt to break the record. Is that right?

MW: So for me to do it, I had to have two timekeepers and two independent witnesses and loads of cameras, slow-motion, everything. So I did that, and I just basically picked today and did it and then sent it off to them. And then it came back within about three months.

GF: Sounds pretty nerve-wracking. What was it like for you that day?

MW: I was really, really nervous. On the day, I did break it a few times, but I wanted to get lower and lower. But then, a few times, I didn't break it. So that added to the nerves. And it was a lot of people watching me while I was doing it. There were probably about 10, I would say.

GF: Um-hmm?

MW: Top of my head.

GF: Mm-hmm.

MW: So I was quite nervous. And when I was practicing, I started going to random people and doing it in groups and stuff to get used to people watching me while I was doing it.

GF: Do you know whether this particular record is a popular one for people to try to break? Were there other people out there doing it, trying it at the same time you were?

MW: Well, nobody has broken it since then. And the one that's quite popular is the blindfolded one, and a lot of people try to break that. But a lot of people do try to break my world record, but they don't usually do it officially. It's like a little video, but they don't usually actually break it.

GF: Hmm. Well, now that you are a Guinness World Record holder, where do you go from here?

MW: I'm hoping to do more, to be honest.

GF: More Mr. Potato Head? Or more records?

MW: Yeah, a bit of both. I'm hoping to do the blindfolded one.

GF: That doesn't sound like it would be very easy at all.

MW: No, it's not at all. And I've had a few practices so far. I did break it once.

GF: Wow!

MW: And so, it's not easy at all being blindfolded. I'm hoping to do another one as well, but that one's a secret at the moment.

GF: It's secret?

MW: Yeah.

GF: Why is it secret?

MW: Well, it's not actually officially been done, this one. So I've sent off for it. And, obviously, it's a bit, like, more of a surprise, then.

GF: Ah, you don't want to give us a hint.

MW: Yeah. And also, I don't want anybody else to break it, so.

GF: [chuckling] All right. Well, we won't… we won't jeopardize your next world record. Thanks so much, Matilda, for --

MW: I'll tell you when I do it.

GF: All right. We've got a date. We'll talk to you when you do it. Okay, bye-bye.

MW: Bye.

CH: Matilda Walden set the Guinness World Record for assembling a Mr. Potato Head in 5.69 seconds. She was in Lancaster, England. And we have some photos of her breaking the record on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Indie rock "Rubber Ducky"]

Dolly Parton Says No To Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame

[Music: “Killing In The Name” by Rage Against The Machine/Rock ]

CH: At first blush, Rage Against the Machine and Dolly Parton don't have a whole lot in common. That also applies to the second blush. Throw A Tribe Called Quest into the mix and you're looking at a playlist that is undeniably good -- but also kind of muddled. Which is apparently how Ms. Parton felt about the news that she'd joined those two acts and 15 others on the list of nominees to be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. The contenders were announced last month. But yesterday, the country music icon revealed that while "extremely flattered and grateful" to be included, she would be bowing out. Now, that's a rock-star move. But for her part, Ms. Parton doesn't believe she should be considered a rock star. Not yet, anyway. As she wrote in her statement: "I do hope that the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame will understand and be willing to consider me again -- if I'm ever worthy. This has, however, inspired me to put out a hopefully great rock 'n' roll album at some point in the future, which I have always wanted to do! My husband is a total rock 'n' roll freak, and has always encouraged me to do one."

[Music: Country twang]

Part 2: No-Fly Zone: Lewis Mackenzie, New Zealand Doors Vs. Wheels Poll

No-Fly Zone: Lewis Mackenzie

Guest: Lewis Mackenzie

CH: Volodymyr Zelensky is trying to win support with his no-fly zone over Ukraine. But so far, Canada and its NATO partners have dismissed the idea. They warn that enforcing a no-fly zone would mean sending fighter jets into possible combat with Russian planes. And that could escalate quickly. Vladimir Putin has already warned about nuclear strikes. But one retired Canadian general says it's worth the risk. Lewis MacKenzie led the United Nations peacekeeping operation in the former Yugoslavia. Today, we reached him in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.

GF: Mr. McKenzie, NATO countries have been extremely reluctant to entertain the notion of a no-fly zone, despite the appeals of President Zelensky and others. What makes you think they are wrong?

LEWIS MACKENZIE: Well, naturally, it's a complicated answer. I have changed my mind over the last two weeks just because of the way that the war on the ground is unfolding, and it's very much in keeping with the Russian strategy, overall strategy, even though it's not necessarily working at this time. And that is the fact that they've been unsuccessful moving through built-up areas without heavy casualties. And so there's the temptation for Russians… and my deputy in Sarajevo 30 years ago was a Russian Spetsnaz colonel. So, you know, we spent a lot of time talking about how they look at things. And they will now back off, which they're doing, and they will have devastating fire going in indiscriminately into built-up areas because they're… they're very low on precision munitions right now, precision rockets, et cetera. So that's a long-winded way to say that it would help immensely if there was a no-fly zone. But there's a complication there, and that is the fact that there are ground-to-air systems to take down aircraft that are located in Russia, Belarus, other locations outside of the war in Ukraine that have coverage over Ukraine. That meaning that if we send in aircraft wherever they're from within NATO, I presume they can be fired upon and shot down by systems outside of Ukraine.

GF: Right.

LM: But at the same time, they have to destroy the systems on the ground that are already there with the Russians, so you can see it becomes… becomes complicated.

GF: Right. And it's those complications that I think are causing people to be conservative. And, you know, we've just this week, we've had the secretary-general of NATO, who warned that a no-fly zone could mean combat ultimately with Russian jets, and which he fears could end in full-fledged war in Europe, involving many more countries than than simply Ukraine at this point. And obviously, much more human suffering. So why is he wrong?

LM: Well, the fact is that there's a lot of ground in between doing nothing and… and having a very effective no-fly zone. And you've mentioned one of the extremes that it could become warfare in Europe. That's probably not the case. There are always… it's like an escalator. You know, it goes up step by step. And Putin, unlike all the descriptions, I doubt very much is some crazy guy that wants to bring Europe to its knees and destroy what's left of it. You know, by getting into a major war, including nuclear weapons.

GF: Well, how do you think he would respond to a no-fly zone and to an engagement with… with, presumably with NATO Air Force?

LM: Yeah. The people on… on the positive side of the argument for a no-fly zone is that would put him in an even more difficult position because then he would have to decide if he is going to escalate it.

GF: And he's already… he's already said that he has already threatened a nuclear escalation, hasn't he?

LM: Yeah, yeah. And that's what it is. It's a threat. And for what it's worth --

GF: That you don't believe?

LM: No, for what it's worth, and like I say, there are people in the intelligence game that know more about this than I do. For what it's worth, if he pushed the button figuratively to start a nuclear conflict, his generals wouldn't carry it out. It's much like if Trump had done that.

GF: What convinces you of that?

LM: Nothing. We're all working on gut now because I don't have access to intelligence. But somebody that has been successful as he has as a leader, sometimes ruthlessly. The fact is he's not crazy. He's not stupid. And that would be a stupid move.

GF: The last time there was a war in Europe, of course, was in the former Yugoslavia. You mentioned Sarajevo. NATO decided not to intervene. You argue that they should not intervene on behalf and to help the Bosnians, who were at that time… were under attack by Serbs. And, in fact, you were… you were criticized for being too close to the Serbs at the time. What makes this situation different in your mind?

LM: You know what? I must say to go back to Sarajevo, which is 30-some years ago, the reason that it didn't make any sense at all was you have to pull the peacekeepers out first. And we saw what happened with a number of them being taken hostage, et cetera, which could have turned into a really nasty situation. But yeah, what's different now is… is that we… we have a litmus test as to whether NATO will or will not intervene to help those nations that are not a member of NATO? I mean, there are 30… 30 members now, and… and other people lining up to join, and Sweden and Finland being two of them. And so, this is a vastly larger battlefield than the limits in Kosovo and the limits in… in Bosnia. And it was hard enough to contain that. So you can imagine how hard it will be to contain some sort of European conflict. So my sympathy and support for the Ukrainians and what they're asking is merely one opinion in a pot that other people have to have a look. And I'm sure they are. I'm sure they are. This offhand, no, no, we're not going to do that. We're not going to do that. It'll start a nuclear exchange. There's all kinds of escalatory steps to take before it becomes really something that will involve the entire continent.

GF: How effective do you think President Zelensky's appeals have been? He… he made it in Ottawa today. He's speaking to Congress in the United States tomorrow. Do you think that he can change NATOs position on this?

LM: He might help. If there is a change, it would be partially because of him. I see all the nodding heads in the United Kingdom in their parliament. I see all the nodding heads in our parliament. It's after he's left or the screen has been turned off, and then they get down to the cold hard facts, especially for Canada, where, you know, I'd be remiss if I didn't put in a pitch saying we're not in the position to do very much from a military point of view. We wouldn't even get there in time. But the fact is that there are a lot of important meetings going on in Brussels with NATO's headquarters and supremo headquarters in Europe, and they're dealing with this. And just the fact they say, no, we're not going to do it doesn't mean they're not seriously considering it. And there might be a point where they will establish some sort of control in the air.

GF: All right. We'll see what happens. Thank you so much for your time today.

LM: Not at all. Have a good one.

CH: Lewis MacKenzie is a retired Canadian general. Today, he's in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.

[Music: Indie rock]

B.C. Ballet Dancer Is Home

CH: For professional ballet dancers, the ultimate goal is to be part of a national company. That was true for Zach Rogers -- since 2019, he's been a member of the world-renowned Stanislavsky Ballet company in Moscow. But everything changed for Mr. Rogers after Russia invaded Ukraine. That's when he decided to leave the country and return to his home in Revelstoke, B.C.

SOUNDCLIP

ZACH ROGERS: Once the news broke that Ukraine had been invaded by Russia, there was… a lot of things happened very quickly. For example, my artistic director left his position with the company, which is, of course, a major loss for any theatre organization. He's French, and he decided to go back to Paris. And my future there suddenly became extremely uncertain. And so, I weighed my options. And considering how quickly everything was escalating there and the borders closing, etc., I decided the best course of action was to come home and lay low for a bit and see what my next move would be. I was a bit stumped at first because it was very difficult to get to Europe by plane at that point and I was travelling with my dog. I have a small dog. And that did make things a little more difficult, but I decided to travel to Helsinki from St. Petersburg by bus, which was one of the last options to get into Europe at that point was by land. So a couple of my colleagues and I decided to go that route, and we flew to St. Petersburg from Moscow and then took a bus the following day to Helsinki, which was about six or seven hours. The bus was packed, and we even picked up extra passengers along the way. Most of them were Ukrainians. I think the driver recognized the situation, of course, and was generous enough to let people on without tickets because it is getting more and more difficult to leave Russia, especially on a Ukrainian passport. So the general feeling of the atmosphere was… was very tense. But luckily, there were no problems for anybody at the border, and we all got through safely. And I flew from Helsinki to Vancouver the next day. I had an amazing three years there. I don't regret anything that I did there, and I'm only thankful for that experience. But it is… it was very, very bittersweet to leave, but I knew that at this time, I couldn't stay there, unfortunately.

CH: That was Zach Rogers, a ballet dancer from Revelstoke, B.C., speaking with Gloria Macarenko, host of On The Coast.

[Music: Uke!!!]

New Zealand Doors Vs. Wheels Poll

Guest: Ryan Nixon

CH: Some questions are eternal: why are we here? What constitutes a good life? How many times are they going to reboot Batman? Other questions arrive suddenly, and out of nowhere, to take the world by storm -- sparking intense, fundamental disagreements between people who thought they loved and trusted each other. And whether he intended it or not, Ryan Nixon is responsible for one of those questions. This month on Twitter, he began what he calls "the stupidest debate", with a poll that asked the question: "Do you think there are more doors or wheels in the world?" That poll received a quarter-of-a-million votes and thousands of comments. And the debate, for some reason, rages on. We reached Ryan Nixon in Auckland, New Zealand.

GF: Ryan, you yourself have called this the stupidest debate, and I'm not going to get into that with you. But with all that's going on in the world right now, [chuckling] who cares if there are more doors or wheels?

RYAN NIXON: Well, it's a great question. And I… I think the biggest surprise that's come out of this is that people actually do care, [GF chuckles] and picked their sides and argued pretty aggressively for one side of the other. But I think it's just one of those things that's helped people take their minds off all the other things that are going on in the world.

GF: Did that surprise you?

RN: It certainly surprised me how big it got. Yeah, when I put the tweet out, I had no expectation or any idea that it would get as big as it had.

GF: So, so where did the question come from, then?

RN: A friend of mine, Adam, he posed it in a group chat. He had seen it somewhere else on the internet. And, like, this question has been around for a bit. It's been on Reddit threads. There's been a couple other tweets where it's been posed. But for whatever reason, timing or luck or whatever it might be, mine was the one that kind of poured gas on the fire, I guess.

GF: [chuckling] All right. Let's get into the debate then. So, what is the argument for team doors?

RN: Well, I think… and I was team doors when I started. My first reaction was doors. And you just think of all the high-rise buildings, apartment buildings, hotels, hospitals, all those kind of facilities where there's lots of doors. There's lots of cupboards. Yeah, so I think that's why people immediately or that's why I immediately thought about doors as the correct answer.

GF: Uh-huh. But you changed your mind?

RN: I changed my mind.

GF: So what convinced you to go with team wheels?

RN: Well, I was reading a lot of the comments and responses to my tweet and doing a bit of thinking. And in all those high-rise buildings, you're likely to have office chairs or trolleys. Or if you're in a hospital, like the beds are on wheels and wheelchairs. You've got wheels on drawers and sliding doors and places you don't see them. And then toys, I think toys have lots more wheels than doors.

GF: Ah, that's a good point, yeah. Well, goodness knows a lot of people have weighed in on this debate. I gather it's still trending on TikTok right now. To what lengths have people been going to try to prove their case one way or the other?

RN: What I've kind of seen on TikTok that I think is really interesting, and I guess the video format really helped that, is actually going and finding evidence. So, I know there was a radio station in the U.S. who went through their whole office building and did a full count. [GF chuckles] And… and things like that, which I think it's really cool. And it's added a new dimension to it, rather than people just debating it and stating their reasons, actually trying to find some evidence, even if only in their own lives, to try and prove their case.

GF: Why do you think people are taking it so seriously?

RN: I don't know. But I think the beauty of the debate is that it seems to be unprovable. So, as long as you're willing to argue your case and… and you've got your reasons like no one can really prove you wrong. And I think that's the beauty of it. Like most other debates you can jump on, you can Google and you can find an answer and… and win or lose the debate pretty much immediately. But this one, you can't. You just got to state your reasons. And some people, some people, unlike myself, are not prepared to switch sides [GF chuckles] no matter which way the argument goes.

GF: They're going to keep looking for more and more evidence to prove that they're right.

RN: That's right. And I mean, and some people are like twisting the definitions of doors and wheels and trying to claim certain things like transistors are doors, hinges are wheels, and things like that to really kind of ram home their side.

GF: Well, given that wheels is only winning by a slim margin, 53.6 per cent, it sounds to me like there could be a lot of debate yet to come.

RN: [chuckle] Yeah, I think so. I think so.

GF: [chuckling] You started something, Ryan!

RN: Yup, completely unexpected. But look, I'm just happy to kind of take people's minds off all the other things that are going on with, you know, COVID and Russia and Ukraine and petrol prices and all these things. So, hey, if that's my contribution to the world, then I'm cool with that.

GF: [chuckling] All right. Thanks for talking to us about it today.

RN: No worries. Thanks for having me on.

GF: Take care. Bye-bye.

RN: Yeah.

CH: Viral Twitter poll creator Ryan Nixon joined us from Auckland, New Zealand.

[Music: Disco?]

Calgary Police Chief On Protests

CH: There's been some pushing in Calgary. And some pushback too. Yesterday, Calgary Mayor Jyoti Gondek called on police to do more about weekly anti-COVID mandate protests in the city's Beltline neighbourhood. And she did that after a confrontation occurred on Saturday when local residents showed up to counter-protest. After a barricade failed, police pushed counter-protesters away from the so-called "freedom rally" demonstrators. Mayor Gondek said the police "turned on residents" and that the force was not prepared to manage the situation. This morning, Calgary's Deputy Chief of Police, Chad Tawfik, responded to Mayor Gondek's concerns.

SOUNDCLIP

CHAD TAWFIK: You know, I think it's safe to say, you know, we're continuing our efforts to work with the communities both in the Beltline and those that are seeking to demonstrate their… their freedoms and rights, to try to have a, you know, peaceful situation there. So we are working with community, and we are going to be continuing our efforts into this coming weekend.

DAVID GRAY: I'm not entirely sure what that means. What do you plan to do differently this weekend?

CT: Well, we're certainly looking at our plans around working with the organizers to avoid a conflict, if at all possible. Certainly, you know, as we saw last weekend, there were… there was a deviation from the patterns in the past where they would follow that direction. So ultimately, we're hopeful that they will have a change of heart this weekend, but we are ramping up our efforts around that. So we've been able to manage it, and we have had cooperation in the past. But we saw that change this past weekend.

DG: Why are you managing instead of enforcing existing rules?

CT: Well, there are… it's a fine balance between the charter rights that people have to demonstrate peacefully and... and have freedom of expression and peaceful assembly. But those are always subject to, you know, the limitations under section one of the charter, which often, you know, from a protest standpoint, the things that… that flip the switch on that would be violence or property damage. So some of the things that are… you'd call them less serious in nature or bylaws or things of that nature aren't always going to be that effective and don't necessarily come into play all the time. But they are certainly things we are looking at and looking at with our partners and bylaws as well.

DG: You know, I heard a lot about charter rights here. Let's explore that. Is it a charter right to chant obscenities at other citizens? Is that a charter right?

CT: Well, when you say, uh, you know, chanting obscenities, I think, you know, there's a lot of things said down there, and certainly, having been down there, you hear on every side of the equation, people saying things. But realistically, people have the right to express themselves as long as they're not being offensive, and by offensive, I mean violating the criminal code that way.

DG: Right. But this happens weekend after weekend after weekend. And the question I'm hearing from Beltline residents is pretty clear. They want to know why the Calgary Police Service is acting as parade marshals instead of police officers?

CT: I certainly, you know, feel the frustrations of the community members of the Beltline and around the area. And the perception of us leading these are supporting these, generally speaking, we've just been trying to ensure that there is safety as people do… do marches in… in relation to their… their demonstrations. So it is very resource-intensive. And certainly, my preference would be to reallocate those resources to do other policing priorities. But… but we have to make sure that we… we keep the streets safe if these things are going to occur.

CH: That was Chad Tawfik, Calgary's deputy chief of Police, speaking with David Gray on The Calgary Eyeopener today.

[Music: Electronica]

Part 3: Homeless Shooting Arrest, Mali Manuscripts

Homeless Shooting Arrest

Guest: James Winans

CH: For the past two weeks, people experiencing homelessness in New York City and Washington, DC, have lived in a state of high anxiety. Because over that time, at least five homeless men in those cities were attacked. And two of those men died. Today, police announced that they've arrested one man they believe is responsible for all five attacks. James Winans is the CEO of the Bowery Mission, which serves New York's homeless population, and has a shelter a few blocks away from where one of the attacks took place. We reached James Winans in New York.

GF: Mr. Winans, how big a relief was it today to learn that police have made an arrest?

JAMES WINANS: Absolutely a huge relief. The last 72 hours have been very harrowing for us as we know how vulnerable our neighbours are who are homeless on the streets. And that someone could walk up unprovoked and take a life was just a horrific feeling. And so, we feel a huge sense of relief today.

GF: When did you first start to worry about these attacks on homeless people and the possibility that they were just not random? That maybe there was something serial in nature here?

JW: Well, the Bowery Mission has been doing this work for 150 years. I think this is always, always a worry, and we've had other incidents like this in our city. But I think it came to light on Sunday that there had been two closely-spaced and very similar attacks. And then, of course, we found out that there have been other… other attacks in Washington, DC and that they might be linked. And so, it very quickly became very alarming.

GF: You say similar. How were these attacks similar?

JW: Well, as has been reported, in each case, the individual approached somebody who was asleep between midnight and dawn. Somebody was sleeping out on the streets and was not confronted in any way, really, but… but simply killed. And so… so these individuals were in a very vulnerable position.

GF: Yeah. And can you tell us what you know about… about the victims?

JW: At this point, we do not know a name. And so we're kind of holding our breath because we know that this person who was killed in New York was killed just three blocks away from our emergency shelter, a shelter that actually had beds open and available the night of the killing. And… and so, we don't know yet if we have a relationship with this individual. Unfortunately, in the past, when similar things have happened in our city and names have been shared, we've discovered that we have had relationships with those individuals. In fact, we have at times gotten involved in providing a memorial service and even a burial where there is no next of kin family. And so, we're holding our breath.

GF: Mm-hmm. You mentioned the cases in DC as well, in Washington. I mean, the one thing we know is that he targeted homeless men, people on the streets, in two cities. What do you think would have motivated something like that?

JW: Yeah, I certainly don't want to speculate on this person's motives, but I do think it illustrates the fact that you know, so often in media portrayals of the homeless, we are speaking about people experiencing homelessness as people who are violent. And yet, you know, our guests at the Bowery Mission, I think, would much more quickly identify with the victims of those violent acts. But to be… to be homeless is to be exposed to violence. And what happened over the weekend tragically demonstrates that that is the case. It's just so sad to hear our guests reflect on this, these killings. And, you know, each person reacts to it in a different way. But some of our guests are resigned and say, you know, this is more of the same. This is the kind of thing we deal with out here on these streets. And so, I think it's so important today that we remember that the people experiencing homelessness are susceptible to acts of violence like this.

GF: Right. And because it's not the first time in New York City where there have been a series of attacks on homeless people, is it?

JW: That's right. I mentioned earlier that we've had similar things happen in the past, quite a brutal series of killings over one night in 2019. And again, in that case, we discovered that each of those people have been connected with the Bowery Mission in some way. They had been at our building for meals or for medical care, or for some other services. And… and yet, on that particular night, they were out on the street and lost their lives.

GF: Are there lessons to be learnt here then about how we and you in the city can better protect people on the street? I mean, you say that you had beds available when this happened. What are we to make of that?

JW: Well, I think that shelter is often the first step for somebody coming off the streets and… and beginning a journey out of homelessness. In our… in our continuum of care, we call it at the Bowery Mission Shelter is really a first step out of homelessness that continues into, you know, longer residential programs that include vocational training and employment training and preparation for… for a life that is housed and employed and productive and… and… and healthy. But getting to that first step of shelter is not simple, especially if somebody has had a traumatic experience in a shelter before. They may actually feel safer out on the streets. And so, so much of our work then is building trust with individuals on the street to get to know names and stories and hopes and dreams for their life, and their life is eternally valuable. And yet, it's going to take a trusting relationship for that person to come indoors, come into a safe and caring environment. And so, that's the work that the Bowery Mission is doing every single day.

GF: And do you think these attacks are going to motivate people who perhaps haven't been ready to take that step to to now take it, if only out of fear?

JW: If only out of fear, I do think that this… this may cause some individuals to consider things anew. And… and those those folks would certainly be welcome at the Bowery Mission.

GF: All right. Thanks so much, Mr. Winans. I appreciate talking to you.

JW: Thank you so much, Gillian, for bringing attention to this important issue.

GF: Bye-bye.

JW: Bye-bye.

CH: James Winans is the CEO of the Bowery Mission. We reached him in New York.

[Music: Folk]

Pope Francis Residential Schools Meeting

CH: Their trip was put off -- but they won't be. A delegation of Indigenous leaders is preparing to travel to the Vatican at the end of this month -- where they'll meet with Pope Francis to discuss healing and reconciliation. They've been calling on the Pope to apologize for the Catholic Church's role in residential schools. And they were set to make the trip last year -- but it was postponed in November. The chief of Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc, Kukpi7 Rosanne Casimir, will be part of the meeting.

SOUNDCLIP

ROSANNE CASIMIR: I guess what I'm thinking about when I'm getting there is, you know, just the encounter with Pope Francis himself. You know, what we'll be discussing and the significance of the meeting and the significance and importance of the delegation to be, you know, seen and heard. And having that opportunity to have that one-on-one is significant. So there's been a lot of planning on what we're going to be saying and how we're going to be presenting. And, you know, knowing that we only have so much time to deliver our key messages from, you know, all the individuals that we heard from. And making sure that we… we do the best that we can representing when we're over there. Because when I think about like just how significant this meeting is, you know when I think about it's historical on so many different levels. You know, for me, you know, personally, but as well as a First Nation leader, you know, this is an opportunity that has never, you know, that is, you know, has been given to a delegation from across Canada and is consisting of knowledge keepers and elders, residential school survivors and youth, you know, to all participate in that private meeting with the Pope Francis. I've met with the membership. And, you know, I wanted to provide them an update. And it's just important to have that communication because I'm carrying their messages. And so, you know, I heard, you know, things like the importance of, you know, grounding, you know, for myself and keep myself healthy and spiritually connected. You know, because I'm carrying a lot of weight on my shoulders when I go over there. And, you know, this is, you know, again, it's significant. And it's… it's so important to deliver the messages that we need for our people. And the importance that, you know, the pope makes those meaningful steps sooner than later. It was also shared that, you know, we all know what those truths are, but it's so important for him to act now. And you know, my intention, you know, will be confirming a commitment during his papal visit to Canada to visit the former residential school sites of the unmarked graves that have been discovered. And that he meet with survivors, meet with the families and leadership to allow for an opportunity to reflect on and offer a meaningful apology. And that the visit is also going to provide an opportunity for the church to demonstrate acts of contrition and live up to the promises made of, you know, walking together on a path to truth and reconciliation and healing.

CH: That was Kukpi7 Rosanne Casimir, chief of Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc, speaking with Shelley Joyce of the CBC's Daybreak Kamloops today.

[Music: Folk]

Mali Manuscripts

Guest: Cynthia Schneider

CH: For centuries, the city of Timbuktu in Mali has been a site rich in African culture and history. From historians to tourists, the World Heritage site has drawn people from all over the world. But that historic importance -- and its repositories of cultural heritage -- have also made it a constant target to rebels and insurgent groups. Local librarians and international groups have been doing all they can to preserve the ancient city's manuscripts. And now, through a partnership with Google, thousands of Timbuktu's ancient documents are being showcased through a virtual gallery entitled "Mali Magic". Cynthia Schneider is the co-director of the Timbuktu Renaissance, an organization that promotes and protects artifacts in Mali. We reached her in Sandy Spring, Maryland.

GF: Cynthia, it has taken years for experts to digitize all of these very valuable manuscripts. How did it feel to see the launch of this virtual gallery?

CYNTHIA SCHNEIDER: You know, it was so exciting to see first the launch to the global public on Thursday, when Google's site that contains the manuscript, as well as other examples of Mali's culture, Mali Magic, went public on Thursday, but it was really exciting to celebrate the manuscripts and to talk about them with the man who saved them and has digitized them, Dr. Abdel Kader Haidara, in front of a huge crowd of people in Bamako on Saturday night.

CF: Describe a little bit to us. What… what are the manuscripts? What did they look like? What do they contain?

CS: Well, the manuscripts were written by scholars in Timbuktu, which was an incredible centre of civilization in the Renaissance period, really on a par with Florence. And like Florence in that, it was the centre of commerce. So it made a lot of money, and it used it to support scholarship. So at that time, there were 25,000 scholars at the university in Timbuktu. And they wrote about a huge range of subjects, including many subjects that really touched on what was happening in everyday life. So there are manuscripts about good governance and against corruption. Talk about how leaders should not surround themselves with flatterers, should not accept gifts, but should rule exclusively for the good of the people. There are manuscripts about human rights and women's rights, and children's rights -- incredible manuscripts about science and medicine.

GF: Wow!

CS: There's also poetry and literature. And yes, sure, analyses of the Quran. But I think anybody who knows about the manuscripts thinks that they're all about the Quran. Now, Timbuktu was an Islamic civilization. But the manuscripts are about so many other subjects.

GF: Why was Timbuktu such a centre?

CS: Well, for many the same reasons that Florence was. It had an income, but the income came from two things. Well, there was trade, and the products were gold and salt. And so, that generated money. And also, there were a lot of people passing through Timbuktu. And the leaders, you know, made the decision to really dedicate that city, which has always been known for tolerance and plurality and hospitality, to scholarship. And you know, once that started, it's like centres in Italy, you know, Florence, Urbino, Siena. Once it starts, then people keep coming.

GF: But as… as… as Mali and as the city fell to various rebel factions and insurgence groups, that… that made these… these manuscripts, this… this rich historical documentation vulnerable, didn't it?

CS: It absolutely did. It was in the spring of 2012 when al-Qaida-linked extremists occupied and took over and ruled Timbuktu. And one of the first things they did was to ban music. Music has a central importance in Mali. It's really how people talk about the present, the past and the future. It really holds the population together. I like to say it's like the Internet in Mali. And so they recognized that and banned it. Not because they don't like to hear the sound of music, but I think they recognized if they band music, that would weaken the population and make them easier to subjugate, I mean. And so that happens right away. And then the next day, Dr. Haidara was walking in the streets of Timbuktu, and papers were flying all around him. They were being thrown out of the mayor's office, so the occupiers were destroying all the documents of the city and the government of the city. And he suddenly thought, oh my God, if they do that to those documents, what might they do if they find the hundreds of thousands of manuscripts that were stored then in Timbuktu? So he immediately set about devising a plan and a strategy to get those hundreds of thousands of manuscripts out of Timbuktu.

GF: And how did he do it?

CS: Well, it's the most amazing story. He worked with a small group of close associates who worked with him, about five people, and they took out… they met… two of them would meet every night, every night for a period of six months. They couldn't do any big operation because that would be noticeable, and then they would be stopped and then, you know, who knows what would happen? So, there's like two people every night would go and put a group of manuscripts into suitcases. And they bought hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of suitcases, but just very ordinary types of trunk-like suitcases that are used in their very everyday way. So this didn't look fancy at all. And they would go to the different storage places and remove the manuscripts, pack them in the suitcases. They took them out by donkey cart, by car. At one point, they transferred them to boats and took them down the river in small batches, you know, with different people each time. And they did this right under the noses of the occupiers.

GF: That is an amazing story. Do you find yourself thinking about what would have been lost if they hadn't succeeded?

CS: You know, once they were saved, that's great. And they're preserved and kept in good condition. But that really brought home the importance of bringing the content of these manuscripts to light. And it seems to me it's all the more an important moment for Malians, particularly to be familiar with their incredibly great historic past, which is really unknown to the bulk of the population.

GF: Right.

CS: And… and for the world, you know this… this false, completely false myth, that Africa has no literary history still persists to an amazing degree.

CF: All right, Cynthia, we're going to have to leave it there. Thank you so much for talking to us about this today.

CS: Okay, thank you. Bye.

CH: Cynthia Schneider is the co-director of the Timbuktu Renaissance. We reached her in Sandy Spring, Maryland.

[Music: Ambient]

WPG International Student Obit

CH: The death of a young Kenyan man in Winnipeg is putting pressure on the government to bring back universal healthcare for international students. Tevin Obiga died this month after contracting a fungal infection in his lungs. He was a fourth-year computer engineering student at the University of Manitoba. And after his death, his family received another shock -- a hospital bill for more than 500,000 dollars. His family told the CBC that they are unsure what kind of coverage he paid for, and whether any of his bills will be covered. Tolani Olanrewaju says it's time for the government to reinstate a program to help international students pay their medical bills. That program was cancelled in 2018. Ms. Olanrewaju is the international student representative for the University of Manitoba Students' Union.

SOUNDCLIP

TOLANI OLANREWAJU: I think the rethink the case of Tevin Obiga is one that really cuts deep and really is truly sad news. My sincere condolences go out to the Tevin family. But from the news I hear, Tevin is not only survived by his family and friends that he left behind, but also the medical bills. And I’m pretty sure the death of a child is a heavyweight on the parents, talk less of having to pay a bill that is not only almost impossible, but very ridiculous as well, but also reminds you that, you know, like your child did not make it out alive. And I think this really, really goes to say that the need for public health for international students and other migrants who aren't covered by the public health should not be questioned.

MARCY MARKUSA: Now, just for clarity here. Tevin would have had to have basic medical insurance coverage as an international student. Could his hospital bills be covered by that insurance?

TO: Um, to some extent. I think basic medical bills are covered by the insurance. But sometimes, you could also require, you know, co-pay… co-pay requirement and things like that. Personally, for me, I started in 2017, where… where we had public health here. And just looking back at it, there's honestly been so many… so many differences between having to access the healthcare system now and then. For me personally, I… I… the clinic that I go to, I have to pay upfront for my medical visit, which does get refunded and can be claimed after, but it's also just like you do have to… you know, like if I need to go to the hospital, I would need to have, you know, money in my hand and things like that. And you know, it's not… it's not always very convenient or accessible.

CH: That was Tolani Olanrewaju from the University of Manitoba speaking with Marcy Markusa, host of Winnipeg's Information Radio.

[Music: Acoustic Guitar]

Eric Mercury Obit

[Music: "You Are My Heaven" by Roberta Flack and Donny Hathaway/Jazz]

CH: This is "You Are My Heaven" by Roberta Flack and Donny Hathaway -- two names you probably recognize. But in the writing credits to this song, you'll find a name you might not recognize: Eric Mercury, who shares the credit with some other guy named Stevie Wonder. And if it's fair to judge someone by the company they keep, it's hard to imagine why Mr. Mercury wasn't a superstar. The Canadian singer-songwriter died yesterday. He was 78. Mr. Mercury was born in Toronto, and played with bands like The Pharoahs and The Soul Searchers before moving to New York to pursue a solo career. As he told JazzFM in 2019: "I needed some instant soul replenishment and I was crushed by the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King. "... I promised myself I would be a part of the Black power movement." With that mindset, Mr. Mercury went into the studio to record his 1969 debut album "Electric Black Man." It was a powerful, soulful, and electric statement. But critics weren't sold on Mr. Mercury's voice -- or his lyrics. As he put it, "At that time, there was no conversation about Black anything in the artistic community... to raise the subject was the kiss of death in the business." Eric Mecury eventually moved behind the scenes, working with artists who found the fame he always deserved. Nevertheless, as he said in 2019: "Electric Black Man ... will never die. Inside of it lives the heartbeat of the times. It's the same kind of times we're living today. I'm still a hippie. Still angry, and still full of love for justice!"

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March 15, 2022 Episode Transcript

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