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The AIH Transcript For March 14, 2022

[hosts]Gillian Findlay, Chris Howden[/hosts]

GILLIAN FINDLAY: Hello, I'm Gillian Findlay.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden, this is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

GF: Wakeup calls. We'll talk to a Lithuanian man who's busy telephoning Russians to try to convince them that their government's so-called "special operation" in Ukraine is really an unprovoked invasion.

CH: Chef de mission. One of Ukraine's best-known chefs has converted his restaurant into a bomb shelter. And he's ditching fine-dining in favour of big pots of borscht for those who have lost their homes.

GF: Cool runnings. a Comox, B.C. teenager wins a race billed as the “toughest, windiest and coldest ultra foot race in the world”. And despite being given seven days to finish, he did it in only four.

CH: Uncool runnings. a long distance runner in Vancouver, tells us he has collected an astonishing 32,000 discarded face masks on his runs -- and one of the unfortunate side effects of COVID-19 is littering.

GF: Bum rap. A Mississippi educator loses his job after reading Grade 2 students a book called "I Need a New Butt" -- but he's hoping an upcoming hearing will help him get to the bottom of things.

CH: And… spiralling out of control. After NFL quarterback Tom Brady announced his retirement, someone paid half a million dollars for the ball he threw for his last ever touchdown. Only for Mr. Brady to unretire less than a day later.

CH: As It Happens, the Monday edition. Radio that suspects the buyer would like more than a quarter back.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Lithuania "Call Russia", Book Teacher Fired, B.C. Mask Pick-Up Runner

Lithuania "Call Russia"

Guest: Palius Senuta

CH: With independent media shut down and most social networks blocked, many Russians have no idea what their government is doing in Ukraine. But there's one form of communication that can still get through to them: the humble telephone. A group in Lithuania has set up a website that allows Russian speakers to call random households -- in an effort to bypass official censorship about the war. It was organized by Palius Senuta. Today, we reached him today in Austin, Texas, where's he's travelling.

GF: Palius, tell us a little bit more about the calls that you've made yourself. What are people's first reactions when they pick up the phone?

PALIUS SENUTA: There's two types of reaction in general, I would say when people understand, you know, why are you calling for. One group of people, they are super angry and super negative, and they're basically yelling at you, and they think you are basically a foreign agent and an instrument of Western propaganda. So that is one group of people. The other group of people are polite and nice, and you can talk with them. But most of those people that are more open, they get really, really scared. And most of them, they don't speak but listen to what you're saying.

GF: So what do you actually tell them then?

PS: Russia's cut off most media and social networks, and people don't know what is going on in Ukraine. There is massive support for Mr. Putin and for his adventures in Ukraine. That is based on the fact that people don't know what is happening there. The thing we are trying to do is convey information and the human tragedy that is in the Ukraine. This you can do, and that is… that is a game-changer because most people will agree that killing people is not good, and that is a game-changer to swing the sentiment, we think, of most people.

GF: But as you say, many people don't believe what you're telling them. What is some of the pushback that you get? How do they argue with you?

PS: Yeah, they push back where they say, look, that's propaganda. That's not true. And you know… you know, we see films of Russian soldiers bringing food and clothing to Ukraine and people. The pushback that we do is we say yes, but we see hundreds and thousands of pictures and photos, and we… we speak to a lot of people. And it is… it is impossible to fake it on such a massive scale. And the other thing, you know, there's always a genuine human being behind this speaking to the other person. And I think that really helps to convey that message.

GF: I'm sure you appreciate for much of the world, it's… it's almost impossible to believe that in the 21st century that, with all the… the ways that people can get information now that an entire country could be so ignorant of what's actually going on.

PS: Yes, absolutely. This is how we are trying to bring a system. So these all kind of, you know, holes in those systems where information is seeping through. So, you know, we are one of those channels, but there's more. You know, people are writing like information on TripAdvisor and restaurant reviews. Well, we can see that this wave of information is seeping into Russia through various channels. And I'm going to make some calls tomorrow. I was speaking to some volunteers and asking, you know, can you sense over time is there a change in sentiment with people? But some of our volunteers were saying, yeah, yeah, we think somehow that kind of information is starting to get in Russia. So I'm going to do calls again tomorrow, myself. I'm just really eager to see, is that information getting through to them?

GF: What do you ultimately hope this will achieve? If you can change even a few minds, what is the goal here?

PS: So I fundamentally believe that most people agree that killing other people is not good. If that information gets into Russia, and Russians start believing that, which they don't at the moment, suddenly there won't be an active… active support for that. That's a very important detail because a lot of people around the world, I think, have that image that Mr. Putin is bad. But most people in Russia actively support. So if someone is against the war, people would report him to police. They would paint that on his doorstep. So in a way, there's a group of people that is protecting Mr. Putin. So actually, Putin doesn't need to put all that police on the streets.

GF: Even if you succeed then in changing some… some people's minds, maybe shifting public opinion a little bit, what do you hope the impact of that will be? Will people actually, you know, go up against Mr. Putin? Will they… will they oppose this in a public way? In a meaningful way?

PS: I think if we can reduce active support, we would give more space to people who are already actively protesting. And more people would we would go in the streets. So, we are speaking to quite a few Russians, as you might imagine. So, I'm totally sure if the sentiment will change. There's going to be much more people on the streets.

GF: And Putin would therefore be much more vulnerable, you think?

PS: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, a lot of people are talking about a coup of Putin, but that is not possible [chuckling] because he is widely appreciated figure. For the change of the regime to happen, there needs to be a public sentiment. If public sentiment is going to swing, then in the circle of Putin, quite likely, there's going to be a coup attempted.

GF: All right. Mr. Senuta, thank you so much and good luck with your work.

PS: Thank you so much. Great speaking with you.

GF: Bye-bye.

PS: Bye.

CH: We reached Palius Senuta in Austin, Texas today, where's he's travelling. And you can find more on that story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Glassy guitar riff]

Book Teacher Fired

Guest: Toby Price

CH: Earlier this month, Toby Price read a book to a group of Grade 2 students. And it didn't have a happy ending. I mean, the book itself, which is entitled I Need a New Butt, ends well enough. But afterwards, Mr. Price, an assistant principal in Mississippi, found himself in need of something else -- a new job. He was fired for reading that children's book to the children. We reached Toby Price in Pearl, Mississippi.

GF: Mr. Price, you've been an educator for… for 20 years. Could you ever have imagined that you would lose your job over simply reading a book?

TOBY PRICE: No, ma'am. Never… it never crossed my mind that reading a book would be something that I would be terminated for. Never, ever couldn't fathom this. It came way out of left field.

GF: Well, take us back and tell us about the book I Need a New Butt by Dawn McMillan. What's it about?

TP: It's a wonderful book. It's a silly, fun book about a little boy who realizes that he has a crack in his butt. And he starts to wonder, did I do it on the bannister? Did I do it on the slide? [GF chuckles] Did I… did I… did I blow my butt apart when I farted? And then, he starts to theorize, you know, what type of new book should I get? A robot butt? A rocket butt? And that's… that's it. [ both laugh]

GF: And you've got a copy of the book there in front of you, I gather, right?

TP: Oh, yes, ma'am. I have it right here.

GF: Can you read me a couple of your favourite lines?

TP: Oh yeah! Oh yeah, I would love to. I'd love to. Let me flip to the right page. He's talking about what kind of butt he wants, and he says, maybe an alien's butt made from a metal like titanium, fire-proof, bullet-proof, bomb-proof. I'd like a butt that's safety rated, the right butt, a knight's butt, a butt that's armour-plated. [GF laughs] That's awesome. Like I said, it's awesome.

GF: And when… when you read this to the kids, what was the response?

TP: They loved it. You could see the smiles on their faces. And afterwards, you know, they were coming up to me and telling me, hey, Mr. Price, that book was really funny. Thank you for reading it to us. You know, I wasn't the original reader scheduled for that day, but they seemed to really enjoy it.

GF: And why did you grab that particular book when you went to fill in as the reader?

TP: Well, and that's the thing. The original reader, shortest version, she forgot. [both chuckle] So my boss texted me and told me to read, so I grabbed one of my favourites that was nearby and, you know, just went after it. I didn't think at all that it would turn into this.

GF: Of course not. So when did you realize that it was going to turn into something?

TP: Well, it was that same day, I got called to the principal's office about 30 minutes after, and she said, you know, we may have some parents complain, and this could be a problem. And, you know, the principal, I respect her. She's good at her job. Yes, ma'am. I understand. I understand. About 20 minutes after that, she told me that I've been called to the district office to speak with the superintendent, who, not to mince words, you know, wrung me out for reading the book. You know, is this the kind of thing you find funny? Butts and farts and bullet-proof butts? And I looked her in the face and said, yes, ma'am, I did before I got in here, [both laugh] you know? And I think I picked it too because I know my audience, you know? Second Grade reluctant readers, you got to show them that books can be fun and silly and engaging. You know, you want them to put down their phone and pick up a book. You got to give them a reason to hang around to see all the other cool things that books could be.

GF: And were these officials responding to criticism or complaints that they had received, or were they just anticipating, and so they were going to get out in front of this?

TP: They were anticipating. And when they called me back on Thursday, the one thing that was said over and over again by the superintendent was, I just can't get past this. Okay, I just can't get past this. It was I, I, I. The only… the one complaint I've had from parents from the school is that they're upset that I'm not there and more upset that this happened.

GF: Yeah. Is there anything that you can see that could be construed as being inappropriate for… for a Grade 2 class in this book?

TP: Honestly, no. I mean, it's a cartoon. It's a cartoon about butts. [both chuckle] You know, and if you look at Captain Underpants, you look at Diary of a Wimpy Kid. You know, The Wonky Donkey, all famous, broadly accepted books, especially like Captain Underpants, where they hypnotize their principal to fight crime in his underwear. [GF chuckles] These are all broadly accepted, and it's not a big deal.

GF: So what's going on here then, do you think?

TP: I'm not sure. I think… I think it may have been one person's knee-jerk reaction. And honestly, I think they expected me to just resign and walk away. They left me in a room and to decide what to do. They had resignation paperwork. They had termination paperwork. And I called my wife, and my wife told me, she said, you know, if you sign that resignation, it's almost like you're walking away saying that they were right and you were wrong, and you weren't wrong. You know, you weren't. So I stood up and put my chin up, sucked in all my tears and walked out of the building and let them know I was leaving and I would not be resigning and got in my car and cried all the way home. [soft chuckle]

GF: So you made them fire you?

TP: Yes, ma'am. There's a hearing coming up on the 21st. It's like an appeal hearing. We've been able to raise some money through GoFundMe to afford an attorney. I don't know what's going to happen at the appeal; I'm not sure yet. [chuckle]

GF: But in the meantime, and you know, a lot of this is humorous, but you have lost your job. What does that mean for you and your family?

TP: Exactly. I have three kids, two of which have severe autism that we'll be taking care of the rest of our lives. You know, this is not just a road bump for us. This is, you know, a two flat tires and we're stuck on the side of the road what do we do kind of situation? I have to find a way to figure out how I'm going to take care of them moving forward. The best way to take care of them. And that's what matters most is my wife and my family.

GF: Yeah. You mentioned hiring a lawyer. Are you at all optimistic that this might end with you getting your job back?

TP: Maybe. I don't expect the district to back down. But at the same time, I'd be lying to you if I told you I would just like, walk right back in, and everything would be okay. It feels like it would be kind of hostile to walk back into. [chuckle] So I have to say I just don't know, and I hate all the uncertainty. You know, my wife and I, we're special needs parents. We plan everything down to a tee. [chuckle] All the uncertainty is just... it's killing us. It's making our anxiety go through the roof.

GF: If… if you could do it all over again and could go back in time, would you choose another book, do you think?

TP: You know what? Someone asked that question of me the other day, and my daughter answered for me. And she said, you know what? He would pick that book again, and he'd probably pick another book that was just like it. [GF chuckles] And you know what? She's right. If I had it to do over again, I'd pick a book that kids find engaging and fun that they'll laugh at. And you know what? I would have picked it again, sure, because kids need funny books. The world is depressing enough.

GF: All right, Mr. Price. Well, I wish you the best of luck. Thanks so much for your time today.

TP: No, no, thank you. And I wish it was under different terms, but it was very nice to meet you.

GF: Nice to meet you, too. Take care.

TP: All right. Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

CH: Toby Price is a now-former assistant principal at Gary Road Elementary School. We reached him in Pearl, Mississippi. And you can find more on that story on our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Diner music?]

B.C. Mask Pick-Up Runner

Guest: David Papineau

CH: During the pandemic, a lot of us struggled with isolation. Some days it seemed like it was all we could do to pick up after ourselves. But some people got busy picking up after other people. On his daily runs, David Papineau started to see a lot of disposable masks littering the streets. And he thought cleaning them up might be something he could do to help. And now, nearly a year after he started, he's removed more than 32,000 masks from the streets of Vancouver. That's where we reached Mr. Papineau today.

GF: David, take me back to the beginning. What prompted you to start picking up all these discarded masks?

DAVID PAPINEAU: Well, basically three reasons. First was pandemic boredom. Back… back before the pandemic, I, as a marathoner, I was always training for races like many runners. And the pandemic basically shut all that down. And a year into it, I really needed something to get myself out the door. Next was like a general frustration with seeing litter everywhere I ran. Specifically discarded masks, we seem to be conditioned in Vancouver to accept a certain amount of litter on the ground, but masks were a new thing, so they really stood out as a symbol of the pandemic. And finally, I felt a need to contribute. Frontline and essential workers did so much for us in the first year of the pandemic. Picking up a few masks around my neighbourhood seemed like a small thing that I could do to help move the city toward a sense of normalcy. So that's basically what… what drove me to start doing this?

GF: And what did you do with all the masks? I understand at one point you had a bit of a scientific experiment going?

DP: [chuckling] Oh yeah, this is a little bit. Yeah, it was a early on when I started posting about it on social media. There was a Capilano University archaeologist named Bob Muckle, who was doing a study on… on pandemic-related waste who showed some interest. So he was using some of my data. A lot of them just go in the trash. Back in May of last year, I was contacted by a local photographer who's doing… she was doing an art piece on... on pandemic waste, Michelle Huisman. And she's taken several thousand of the masks that I… that I've picked up and used in her in her exhibit that's currently on right now.

GF: You just said your data. What was the data?

DP: Oh, well, I just keep a spreadsheet. When I run and walk around Vancouver, I use a GPS-enabled watch, so you can basically see where it is. I've been where I've been picking up masks. I keep a count every day. I post to the run tracking site Strava, along with a daily photo of the masks I pick up, the bags of masks I pick up. And so, you know, I don't think they're getting into, you know, to find a detail of data. But you know, it's sort of a general representation of the kinds of volume and the types of masks and that kind of thing that… that litter the streets of Vancouver.

GF: What do your friends and family make of this… this new pastime?

DP: [ both chuckling] It's the dumbest hobby ever. [GF laughs] You know, obviously, they see some value in it. I… you know, I don't know. I get a little obsessed about things like this. I've also run every street in the city of Vancouver. So, you know, once I get on something, you know, it's hard to get me off it. So, you know, they appreciate the effort and, you know, it keeps me busy and out of trouble. [GF chuckles] And that's, you know, they just kind of nod.

GF: [laughing] Well, as a runner, I have to ask you, doesn't this just slow… slow up your runs? I mean, how have you managed to actually do some proper training if you're stopping to pick up a mask all the time?

DP: Yeah, that's… let me tell you, I'm currently training for a marathon, and this is the worst way to train for a marathon, stopping and starting. [GF chuckles] I initially kind of wondered, okay, is this going to be a good thing? You know, it's almost like interval training. I run with… with a couple of different running groups. And you know, some of them, you know, within the first kilometre or two, they… they've dropped me, and I can't keep up because I'm, you know, constantly finding masks and having to try and sprint to keep up with them. But, you know, some of them are pretty good about it. They'll point out the masks to me [GF laughs] that they think I may not have seen, and eventually, they get so far ahead that they know I can't hear them. So, but yeah, as far as training method, doing this is not… not the best, not the way to go.

GF: And what do you pick the masks up with? I mean, I presume not your hands, right?

DP: No, I… I use a pair of… well, they're not barbecue tongs. When I started this, I hit… the city of Vancouver, has an adopt a block street cleanup program. And when you apply, they give you all these implements. The sort of long-handled, trigger-operated trash pickers. But they also gave me a pair of salad tongs, which at the time I thought didn't look like they were all that useful. However, when you're running, they're lightweight, they're easy to hold, and they do the job. So, you know, pair gloves, the salad tongs or the barbecue tongs that I've got since I broke the original salad tongs [GF chuckles] and then just an old bread bag. And that's super easy, super lightweight, at least until you've got a bag of them. And it's… it's, you know, it's an easy way to go.

GF: Now, of course, in British Columbia, as elsewhere, the mask mandates are about to become a thing of the past. What's that going to mean for you?

DP: Well, for starters, I'm not, you know, entirely convinced that that's the way to go, but I still wear a mask when I'm out. I am kind of hopeful that the lifted mandates will lead to less mask litter. Not only will we have fewer people wearing masks and potentially dropping masks, but I think the kind of people that will still be wearing masks are probably considerate enough that they'll take greater care with them rather than people who feel like they're forced to wear them.

GF: Hmm, that's interesting. And I guess we should point out that this is important because masks are not recyclable, are they?

DP: They're not generally recyclable, but there are… there are companies that do recycle them because they're basically plastic. They're a pain because you can't just recycle all of it. There's like a metal nose strap. I guess the ear loops are… are some different kind of fabric. I've seen some interesting projects that people in Britain and France have been doing with the recycled plastic. But yeah, it's… it's not really a thing. And I think by the time they come up with mass solutions for recycling them, we probably won't have many of them around anyway. So I don't know how many people are sinking a lot of resources into mask recycling?

GF: Okay, well, thanks very much for telling us about it today, David. Good luck.

DP: All right. Thank you very much.

GF: Bye-bye.

CH: David Papineau is a long-distance runner. Last year, he started picking up masks littering the streets of Vancouver.

[Music: Tango]

Not Tom Brady’s Last Touchdown Ball

CH: NFL quarterback Tom Brady is the GOAT: the Greatest of All Time. And yet a lot of people hate him. Hard to say exactly why. Is it his petulance? His vapidity? His smugness? "Deflategate"? Or -- maybe -- it's envy of his utter domination of the game for 22 seasons? All valid reasons. Well, today, even a fan who thought he was the best probably thinks he's the worst. Because on Saturday, that fan paid 518,628 dollars U.S. at auction, for the football Tom Brady threw for his last-ever touchdown. A football that's now worth -- the price of a football. At the beginning of February, the 44-year-old Mr. Brady announced his retirement. It was a huge deal. And not long thereafter, Lelands Sports Memorabilia auction house offered Mr. Brady's final-touchdown ball for bidding. "One thing is certain," the lot description read, "the opportunity to obtain a piece of football history of this magnitude may never present itself again." Oh, but it will. Because yesterday, Tom Brady announced that he was retiring from retirement. "These past two months I've realized my place is still on the field and not in the stands," he tweeted -- less than two months after he retired. And less than 24 hours after that fan paid over half a million dollars for that "last-ever touchdown ball". Which won't be the last-ever at all. So far, the auction house hasn't revealed whether it will offer a refund. So today, the buyer is probably -- and fittingly, given Mr. Brady's involvement -- visibly deflated.

[Music: Tango]

Part 2: Ukraine Chef, Canadian Ultra Arctic Race

Ukraine Chef

Guest: Yevhen Klopotenko

CH: A lot of ordinary Ukrainians have taken up arms to fight the Russian invasion. But Yevhen Klopotenko has stuck with the tools he knows. Pots and pans, wooden spoons and spatulas. Mr. Klopotenko is one of the best-known chefs in Ukraine. Over the past weeks, he's converted his fine-dining restaurant into a bomb shelter, and started cranking out comfort food for people defending the city. Yevhen Klopotenko is now near Lviv, feeding the thousands of refugees who are fleeing the fighting. That's where we reached him.

GF: Yevhen, you are in Lviv tonight. How great is the need for food right now?

YEVHEN KLOPOTENKO: Oh, so it's a great need because everything what was before it was broken. And now, we are just organizing the new food and like the new ways how we can feed the refugees and just feed even normal people. It's like a big problem now in Lviv. That’s why I'm here. So I’m not now in Kyiv.

GF: Field kitchens are a long way from fine dining restaurants that you used to… to have in Kyiv. What has it been like for you?

YK: It's a bit hard because for me, all the time food was like art. You cook it and people enjoy it and people have their own special emotions. But now, you should… I changed my attitude to the food because it should be like a fuel because people, like, need to live and people need just food. And I need to save the people with the food. So it's not… now is hard for me, but I got to do that because if you know, I'm… I'm doing the… the school canteens. I am like changing the school canteens in Ukraine, so but… the school continues to cook for 500 people a day. So actually, it's almost the same. So I took my menu, which I… which I created for the school canteens and the half of the dishes I can easily, easily perform or easily cook on the field kitchens. And like, not… not many spices can I find, but the huge amount is not the first time I had to cook.

GF: So what are you making people?

YK: The most important thing is carbs, you know? So I am cooking the buckwheat because we have buckwheat and we have a lot of buckwheat here. That's why, like almost every day, buckwheat, almost every day like a rice. But I'm trying to change the rice on Sunday with a meat if we have meat. Also, I cook the borscht. You know, when… when the refugees eat the borscht, they feel like they're at home because they all the time ate borscht at home. So you know, there is some connection to their places where they are from. I'm cooking different… different soups. But like every second day, I'm cooking borscht because it's like you're never fed up of borscht. [GF laughs] So it's like… it's like… it's like it comes.

GF: Right.

YK: So just a lot of different. But you know, all the time, every day it changed. So I cannot say what I'm going to do tomorrow. I will just see the products and I will cook, I will organize to cook what we have.

GF: I understand in Kyiv that your restaurant now is actually serving as a bomb shelter and that you've been feeding the troops or the people that are defending the city there. What made you decide to do that?

YK: It's a very simple answer, because you can do only one thing. You can only… you can only do what you can do the best, you know? I can do the best is about cooking. So I have my restaurant, it's my home. I've been there like 90 per cent of the time, I was studying in my restaurant. So when everything happened, what I understood is that there is a few people from restaurant who live there, and they said we wanted to cook. And I helped organize everything and we started to cook. And then we… our restaurant is actually on the ground floor and we have a basement. And if you cook a lot, sometimes you will have like, I don't know how it's called, it's an hour when you cannot go outside because it's army, military hour subsequent.

GF: Curfew, yeah.

YK: So, you can cook till 7:00, but you need to cook more. And that's why you have to be in the restaurant. So people, our cooks, some… some days are living there. And because we have everything and a safety place. And also, some people who want to… who are coming to the city and they see it and they hear the alarms. It's like eight times a day, you know? So they can… they are entering our restaurant and they're sitting in the basement. If we want to win this war, we should do… we should work like a whole organism and we should perform the best we can.

GF: Right. And food is obviously important. But I'm wondering, as a young man, did you… did you feel any pressure to pick up arms yourself to defend the city?

YK: It was like the first three days I was thinking that they should go. But in Kyiv and in Ukraine, it's not easy to go to take the arm because our army is like ten million people, you know? And because only for the one week, 100,000 men came back from their jobs in Europe and they wanted to take the guns. So now, even if I want to take the gun, it's not so easy, you know? And I understood that I am not the best… the best gun shooter. [GF chuckles] That's why there is a lot of men who is better than me in that way. But I am better in cooking. So after three days, I understood that it's okay. Not everyone should shoot. And even in the big armies, like even in the big 100,000 armies, 70 per cent is about deployment and only 30 per cent is shooting, you know? It's not about to be a hero and to kill thousands of Russians. I do not feel that I can shoot thousands of Russians, you know?

GF: You are well known in Ukraine. And I think you… you're cooking and your profile, your restaurant, you have celebrated Ukrainian cuisine, and I'm wondering what it's like for you to watch what is happening to your country now?

YK: I was fighting for Ukraine already for eight years after the revolution in 2014 because I understood that we should be Ukraine. And I’ve seen a lot of people who wanted Ukraine to have a better life. It made this aggression from Russia because Russia saw that a lot of Ukrainians want to be Ukrainians. We start to have our language, we start to have our food because we start to have a lot of Ukrainians things, you know? And Russia was very angry and they didn't want us to be become a nation. It's an awful thing in my life, and it's awful to thing in the life of our country and our history. We will come through this. We will become one of the best, you know, countries because we will become like the symbol of courage, some… some independence. And that's… that's the idea. Thinking about what’s going to be in the future. It helps me to not think about what is happening now.

GF: Thank you so much for talking to us. And good luck to you, and be safe.

YK: Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Bye.

GF: Bye-bye.

CH: Yevhen Klopotenko is a Ukrainian chef. We reached him near Lviv, Ukraine.

[Music: Ambient]

Calgary Mayor’s Message To Police

CH: Calgary Mayor Jyoti Gondek is calling on police to step up and do better. On the weekend, a confrontation broke out between anti-COVID mandate protesters and local residents in the city's Beltline neighbourhood. Today, Calgary's police chief said the latest protest escalated further than ever before. Videos show the police pushing the counter-protesters away from the so-called "freedom rally" demonstrators after a barricade failed. This morning, Mayor Gondek called the weekly protests "a parade", and said the crowd-control tactics police are using no longer work.

SOUNDCLIP

JOYTI GONDEK: Residents and business owners are standing up for the right to be in the place that they call home, and this is a very tenuous time, and tensions are high. Crowd control is not working.

DAVID GRAY: So let's be clear about what lanes people are in here. I understand you have the right to say this morning on the radio, but you don't have the right to tell the police how to manage this, do you?

JG: Not at all. I cannot direct the police. I can't direct the police. Council can't direct the police. You can't. The only group that can direct the police is Calgary Police Commission, and they are looking into what can be done. I can tell you, I had a call with the chief and the chair of the commission yesterday. At that point, the chief did indicate to me that he's been talking with the Crown, as well as the solicitor general, to see what can be done. I don't know what that looks like. But you know, we've got to get serious about this sustained disruption in our community. And frankly, I will say this again. I've said it many times. If you are protesting something that you don't like, it is more than likely a mandate that was put out by the government. You can demonstrate on the steps of city hall. You can demonstrate at McDougall Centre. You can demonstrate at the Harry Hays Building. Pick the level of government that you don't like and go ahead and protest, but keep the residents and businesses out of it.

DG: When you watched what happened this weekend, and I think this is an important point because there's all sorts of upset people out there this morning, did you feel the police treated both sides, both the demonstrators and the counter-demonstrators, equally?

JG: Well, in my opinion, the police saw the same thing I did, which was a group of 1,500 people and a group of 50 people. And with the resources they had in place, once the one barrier was breached, and the 1,500 group started breaking through the barrier that the police had in place and coming towards the 50 or so folks that stood up for their right to be in their community. Police had a decision to make Who do you ward off? They can't ward off 1,500 people, so they turned towards the 50 folks that were standing there and started shoving them out of the way. In their eyes, to prevent violence and a clash. But what you just did is turned on residents and said, look, we got to shove you out of the way because we can't control this other group.

DG: Calgary police said in a statement issued Saturday night that police did their best. That risk for conflict was high. Cooperation from protest groups was limited. They also say that clips that have been showing on social media over the last day and a half or so don't tell the whole story. What do you make of all that?

JG: You know, no clip ever tells the whole story of anything, but that line doesn't work anymore. You know, people were there. I was there. I can tell you that they were not prepared to manage what was happening. There was chaos. So crowd control worked while people took the order to just stay home and shut down their businesses. But that can't be sustained. People have every right to take back their neighbourhood. So the police have to find a different way to manage this.

CH: Calgary Mayor Jyoti Gondek speaking with David Gray, host of the Calgary Eyeopener, today.

[Music: Indie rock]

Ultra Arctic Race

Guest: Rio Crystal

CH: Maybe you're the kind of long-distance runner who's craving something more challenging. Maybe you're tired of races where the ground is boringly level, and where savage winds don't whip ice crystals into your face, and where the temperature isn't minus-double-digits Celsius, so you have to keep wearing nine layers, or you'll lose toes to frostbite. If so, I have no idea who you are. But you're not alone. Everyone who participates in the 6-6-3-3 Arctic Ultra Race wants that horrifying experience, for some reason. It's seen as the toughest and coldest ultra race anywhere. A 400-kilometre trek that starts just outside Dawson City, Yukon, and ends at the Arctic Circle. For reasons I've established I don't understand, that appealed to 18-year-old Rio Crystal -- who became the youngest competitor to ever join the race. Not only that: he won. We reached him in Comox, B.C.

GF: Rio, first of all, congratulations.

RIO CRYSTAL: Thank you very much.

GF: Tell me what it was like when you finally crossed that finish line.

RC: Honestly, it felt a little bittersweet because it's the toughest ultramarathon in the world, and the conditions are so harsh. Yet, this year, the weather was so perfect, and I went at a pace that can beat the 308-mile course record, and I set a course record for the 250 mile, and everything went so well for me. But it didn't feel as grand and as tough as it should have been.

GF: Well, it certainly sounds pretty tough. Tell me, what were the hardest parts?

RC: The hardest part of the race was going into checkpoint three. I had a ton of knee pain in my MCL; that's the inside of your knee on both knees. I started walking in a funky manner so that my Achilles and the tibialis would hurt just so I could take the pain off my knees. But apart from that, it was pretty straightforward, just the one step in front of the other and get to the finish line.

GF: [laughing] But you talk about a marathon and a race, but you don't run, do you? It's a walk.

RC: Yes, if you run when it's so cold out, not only are your lungs going to have quite a bit of trouble breathing. Obviously, you'll have merino wool to absorb the sweat. But if you sweat too much, it's going to freeze onto your skin, and that's going to lower your body temperature, and you could get hypothermia. You're walking on pretty much ice and concrete for 400 and almost 10 kilometres, 410 kilometres. So your joints, even just from walking 196 kilometres, I had a ton of joint pain. Running isn't optimal, I would say.

GF: How cold did it get?

RC: The coldest day with negative 36. I don't know what it was with windchill, but without wind chill, it was negative 36.

GF: And I've seen a picture of you, and you're pulling a sled behind you, right? What's in the sled?

RC: Yes. Oh, everything! A ton of food. You got your negative 40 sleeping bag; your Therm-a-Rest. I think I got a hole in my Therm-a-Rest. Your bivy bag; your emergency kit so that you can cook water, cook food tape, fuel, you name it. Anything that you need to survive out there. It's in that tiny bag.

GF: And you're on your own. So when you say survive, you're all by yourself?

RC: Yes.

GF: So how do you… I mean, you're from Comox on Vancouver Island. How did you prepare for a journey like this?

RC: I did a bunch of running, but I wouldn't do that again just because it's all walking, right? So I went to Whitehorse for a month before the race, so I could acclimatize. I was running 140k a week, probably -- 800 metres run and then walk back 1,000 metres. Do that over and over again. But if I were to do it again in the future, I would probably do three days of working out in the gym so that I strengthen my joints and my muscles.

GF: You say if you do it again. I want to know why you decided to do it in the first place?

RC: I saw a man named Andres Hoffman do the first Ironman on Antarctica. And I saw him do it, and I said, I bet I could do that as well. That cost him $200,000 USD. And unless you're like some Saudi prince, there was no teenager in the world that can afford that.

GF: Right.

RC: So I went for the next best thing, which was the world's toughest ultramarathon, which I worked for four years about, and I saved a ton of money. So I had a bit of money to spend on something life-changing, which was the 6-6-3-3 Arctic Ultra.

GF: Right? And was it life-changing?

RC: Oh, absolutely.

GF: Mm-mmm. What do you think you learned from this experience?

RC: I was at UBC yesterday, and someone asked me a really good question. What's five habits that you learned? I have four, but I can't figure out my fifth.

GF: Umm-hmm?

RC: And the four are: firstly, you need to prioritize your own expectations. There is so many people out there who have different expectations of you, your parents, your best friends. In my case, there is professional ultra-marathoners, who told me I can do it, but they only had a Zoom call for like probably a total of 10 hours, and you don't get to know someone over 10 hours of Zoom call. And you know yourself the best, so you need to prioritize your own expectations, which that leads to my second habit because you need to validate yourself. And if you're constantly chasing the approval of other people, your life might be amazing, but it can be another step higher, I think. Three is only spend time worrying about the things that you can control and prepare yourself best for what you can't. I spent a ton of time awake to like 3:00-4:00 a.m. Like half the time of the two years of training, I was probably up half the night. After a while, you realize you just have to let it go and focus on what you can control.

GF: When you were out there and in the elements and all on your own, 18 years old, what did you think about?

RC: During the race, I knew I did all the preparation, and the only thing I could control is myself moving. So I just thought about me, keep on going, focus on my pace and where the heck is second place?

GF: Mm-hmm. Did you know that you were going to win?

RC: Well, after checkpoint two, which is only 139 kilometres in, the man who is with me in first place, he had to pull out due to… he probably will have lost a few fingers. He had three gloves on and two hand warmers, and it was only negative 23, and he still couldn't feel two of his fingers for over 12 hours.

GF: Wow!

RC: So he had to pull out. And at that point, I had a 40 km lead on second place. And there's no way I'm going on national TV or radio saying I finished second in the world's toughest race, but I blew a 40k lead.

GF: [both laugh] Well, you're not going to have to do that. But would you do it again? Are there more ultra races in your future?

RC: The end goal… there's definitely a ton of ultra races, but my end goal is to beat Andres Hoffman's record on Antarctica for the fastest Ironman.

GF: Yeah? And when will be your next chance to do that?

RC: Oh, whenever! I need… I can't just focus on one thing the whole time. This whole next year, I'm going to focus on the things I didn't get to do I love because of all the training for the ultra marathon, probably within 10-12 years before I'm 30. Because when I'm 30, I'll probably have a ton of other responsibilities.

GF: Um-hmm.

RC: And I probably won't have as much time to focus on my own goals. So hopefully, before then, I'll beat that record.

GF: All right. Well, congratulations again. That's… that's something I think a lot of people just can't even imagine doing. So good for you.

RC: Thank you.

GF: Take care. Bye-bye.

RC: Bye.

CH: Rio Crystal is the youngest competitor and winner of the 400km Arctic Ultra Race which takes place in the Yukon. He joined us from Comox, B.C.

[Music: Folk]

Pi Day Poem

CH: Did I stop a truck abasement in uglier axles? The gaffe bleacher whizzbang accepts -- no, this is not working for me. I can't even recite the first five digits of Pi -- let alone create an intelligible poem written in Pilish. Pilish -- for the understandably uninitiated -- is a language wherein each consecutive word is comprised of a number of letters dictated by the digits of Pi. In other words, your first word has three letters. Your second has one. Your third has four -- 3.14. And then, 1-5-9-2-6-5 ... and so on and so forth. If you ask me, it's an infuriating exercise, but apparently it's one that many pi aficionados find easy as... ugh… is it cake? I can’t remember. In his Pi Day-inspired piece on the phenomenon, University of Portsmouth mathematician Ittay Weiss offers up this sweet entry in Pilish.

Reading:

CH: Pie. I wish I could determine pi. Eureka, cried the great inventor. Christmas pudding, Christmas pie. Is the problem's very centre.

CH: That particular slice of Pilish is correct to 20 decimal places of pi -- proving that not all forays into pietry are as fruitless as mine. But if anything is constant -- aside from the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter -- it's that some wordsmiths will always be ahead of the curve.

[Music: Surf rock]

Part 3: South Africa Most Unequal, Ukraine Kharkiv Musician

The Perogies for Peace Fundraiser

CH: On Saturday, volunteers in Niverville, Manitoba spent the day peeling potatoes, chopping onions, and pinching perogies for a good cause. The Perogies for Peace Fundraiser raised about 3,000 dollars for Ukrainian refugees. David Porter was there.

SOUNDCLIP

DAVID PORTER: There's going to be a child that's going to receive that help, and that's what I keep in my mind. It's… it's the children, first and foremost, that are being torn apart. And when you see them crying, if I can help one child bring a smile to that child's face, that's… that's all the world to me right now. It's… it's what you have to do. So, you know, we live… we live in a world of luxury here. I know people don't feel it because we wear masks and stuff like that. But I've lived in war zones, and I know what it's like to lose absolutely everything and to give everything. And when you're walking through a community that no longer existed three days ago, it just tears your soul right apart. And to be here to do this, to help out, to help stop that from happening again. Yeah, it's whatever I got, I'll give. I lived in North Africa doing piecework from 1995, up until 2012. So if you… any war in North Africa since 1995, I was there. This was my life for… well, from '95 to 2012. So it's… if this is what it takes because oftentimes, we'd call back to Canada to say whatever you got, give us because we need it. And here I am, in the… in the position to do what I used to ask people to do. It's the heartbeat of being a human. You know, just seeing people come together to do this. This is what peace is all about. This is what the world should be all about. Like, you look around the room, and you'll see cultures from all over the world right in this room helping out Ukraine, which is, you know, that right there is… that's amazing. And if… if somebody in this world finds peace in this somewhere, I'm glad I did my small part. Whatever… whatever brings peace to somebody else, I'm all for.

CH: That was David Porter, a volunteer with the Perogies for Peace Fundraiser, speaking on CBC Winnipeg's Information Morning. The event earned about 3,000 dollars for Ukrainian refugees.

[Music: Acoustic guitar]

B.C. Overdose Funding Calls

CH: Last year, British Columbia reported its deadliest year on record for illicit drug overdoses: more than 2,000 people died. And new data from the provincial coroner's office shows that this January, 207 people died from toxic drugs. The heartbreaking numbers have led to renewed calls for B.C. to increase funding, and expand access, to safe drug supply programs. But not everyone is fully sold on that strategy. Dr. Mandy Manak is an addictions doctor and the medical director of the Interior Chemical Dependency Office in Kamloops.

SOUNDCLIP

DR. MANDY MANAK: The trials have shown that this is not a treatment of any disorder. It is a harm reduction approach. I've mentioned that patients are given tablets to take home and either take orally or to snort or to inject on their own. It is not a treatment for opiate use disorder. It is a harm reduction approach so that people aren't tempted to use the illicit opiates, which is fentanyl in this case, because fentanyl has a greater potential for overdose. I think what we forget is that hydromorphone is still an opiate, and you can still overdose from it. So my question is, are people who are prescribed safe supply using it safely? Are those people that are prescribed safe supply not using fentanyl anymore? Because I haven't met a single patient who has prescribed safe supply and also still not using fentanyl?

SHELLEY JOYCE: When you say injecting these pills, how many might you prescribe to somebody? And how many might they use in a day? And how… tell me how they'd be used?

DMM: So typically, I think the recommended number of tablets was anywhere from 12 to 14. But I have seen patients who have received 70-80 tablets a day to inject. So they would take this medication home, make a little slurry out of it and put it through a needle and into their arm. So I think we forget that the hallmark of addiction is loss of control. So when people are using illicit fentanyl, that is really what they want because it gives them a better high. And especially if you have a tolerance, you want whatever is more potent. So if you are given safe supply as a means of not overdosing, we now have people who are getting tablets; there's a risk of diversion with those tablets because if I really want fentanyl, I might sell my hydromorphone to buy my fentanyl. So you end up people dabbling in both. And I have yet to see one patient that I have come across that is on safe supply that is not using fentanyl. I have not met a single one. I do feel that it's a big social experiment, probably at the expense of many patients. And I guess, you know, my… my questions for those in the ability to make those decisions is, is there evidence that safe supply is stabilizing people with opiate use disorder? Or will it decrease the amount of fentanyl that they are using?

CH: Dr. Mandy Manak is the medical director of the Interior Chemical Dependency Office in Kamloops, B.C. She was speaking with Shelley Joyce on Daybreak Kamloops.

[Music: World]

South Africa Most Unequal

Guest: Tim Murithi

CH: South Africa is one of the richest countries in Africa. It's a hub for tourists and foreign investment. And it has enormous reserves of natural resources -- including diamonds and gold. But according to a recent report by The World Bank, despite all its wealth and diversity, South Africa is the most unequal country in the world. A title it continues to hold even decades after the end of apartheid. Tim Murithi is the head of program at the Institute for Justice and Reconciliation. We reached him in Cape Town, South Africa.

GF: Mr. Murithi, were you at all surprised by the World Bank findings?

TIM MURITHI: No. In fact, the World Bank report kind of touched upon issues that are quite familiar to those who observe and analyze the southern African region. And it touched upon, you know, challenges around inequality in the region and touched on governance issues of inherited circumstances, what they call inequality of opportunity. And you know, some of the recommendations that were put are, in fact, not necessarily new. I think the one thing that did stick out was just how inequality remains quite resilient.

GF: One statistic that jumps out when speaking about South Africa, in particular, is the number, 10 per cent. Ten per cent of South Africa's population owns 80 per cent of the country's wealth.

TM: Yes, this is.. What… what falls in the category of inequality of opportunity, but also of unequal land ownership, which is a direct legacy of the apartheid system in South Africa, which left behind deep structural inequality. This is, structures and systems were put in place using laws to actually ensure that South Africans of European descent, as the report calls them, were primary beneficiaries of the apartheid system. What we can also colloquially call white supremacy.

GF: That system ended 28 years ago, Tim, the end of apartheid, the election of the ANC government. So why is it that 28 years later, we're still seeing these kinds of statistics?

TM: So this report is actually quite instructive to where you're born, the kind of school you go to, the kind of health care access that you have, whether your parents can own land. This inequality of opportunity explains almost half of the overall inequality in South Africa and also in other parts of the region. That's quite a high percentage if you think about it. And that's often not discussed or even addressed in a very open way. It's almost like this is the deep, dark secret that actually remains with us, and we don't confront it.

GF: Why does it remain, though?

TM: Precisely because of government policies. So we definitely have to point fingers at the government policies of the ANC government. It has been in power for 28 years. And its failure to address, in fact, the the apartheid structure at its root cause, including spatial apartheid, the way people are subdivided into geographical regions, determines where they live, determines the kind of schools they go to, determines the kinds of housing that they have and the government itself, even though it had progressive policies around taxation and so on and so forth. Education is compulsory at the primary level. Healthcare access is there but also privatized, not much more now. It means that the system itself, right, the structure of the system hasn't changed that much. Yes, it's a government responsibility, but it also requires the wider society to also buy into… into this agenda. And if the wider society is not convinced that this is the way to go, then obviously, things will fall. And what happened in South Africa in 2009 is that Jacob Zuma, the third president of the country, took over. Unfortunately, the State of Capture report has indicated -- the one that was released very recently -- indicated that a high degree of corruption took place that actually undermined the ability of the government to deliver. So it's almost an own goal. It's a self-perpetuated crisis situation. But when you look at the land issue, the white farmers also have been very reluctant to… to part with the land. You said 10 per cent own 80 per cent of commercial productive land. It's… it's… it's… it's an all-round challenge, right? It's mindsets. And it's also ensuring efficiencies within the government and governance processes. So it really is there's a lot of blame to go around on all sides, so to speak, Gillian.

GF: And… and given that we are now almost three decades past when I think most South Africans voted and I have to assume believed that they were voting for change in this, how does change happen then?

TM: No. In fact, the South Africans are still voting and, strangely enough, for the same political party that brought them independence in 1994. And somehow, hoping that things will change. It's much more difficult to explain how that phenomenon happens. Though, in the next elections that are due in 2024, there is the sense that this will be the end of the dominance of the African National Congress, which was both Mandela's and, you know, and Mbeki's political party that has been governing South Africa since 1994, when the apartheid system was was technically, you know, terminated. But it actually hasn't ended in terms of the real lived experience of people of colour in South Africa, Gillian.

GF: Is there anything in this report that gives you hope for the future that things will change?

TM: Look, I think the sense that there is a middle class that has grown even despite all the challenges within the southern African society, a middle class of people of colour is a positive sign that things can continue to move in that direction. So there is always hope. It does mean that we just have to be much more kind of deliberate and focused. The policymakers have to, you know, stick to what they say, and we have to root out corruption to make sure that the resources are actually used in a much more efficient way to improve equity and efficiency. Social protection program, health care, education, housing. These are really the things that will transform people's lives. And the land distribution question also remains very, very challenging and very, very difficult and an emotive subject. And it definitely has to be confronted head-on by both the government and the wider society, Gillian.

GF: Mr. Murithi, thank you so much for telling us about it today.

TF: Thank you so much.

CH: Tim Murithi is the head of program at the Institute for Justice and Reconciliation. He spoke to us from Cape Town, South Africa.

[Music: Uke!!!]

FOA: MH-17 Lawsuits

CH: Nearly eight years after a Malaysia Airlines flight was shot down over eastern Ukraine, Australia and the Netherlands have launched new legal proceedings against Russia. The two countries say the passenger plane was hit by a Russian surface-to-air missile system, which was transported into an area controlled by pro-Russian rebels earlier that day. Two hundred and 98 people died, including 38 Australians. Australia's foreign minister called today's legal action, "a major step forward in [the] fight for truth, justice and accountability for this horrific act of violence." But by now, the families of passengers on board flight MH-17 are used to a lack of accountability. Silene Fredriksz's son Bryce and his girlfriend Daisy died on the flight. Carol spoke with Ms. Fredriksz twice, including in 2019, when Dutch prosecutors decided to try, in absentia, four alleged attackers.

SOUNDCLIP

SF: I think that they don't care. That's what I think. They ruined my life and of my whole family -- and the children's lives. They had a future and that was stolen. For what? There were 80 young age -- young adults and children in the plane. That's a lot. Also babies.

CO: Are you in touch with other families of those who went down in the plane?

SF: Yes. Yes. We have a lot of contacts with other families.

CO: And some of them -- people are moving on, some family members have even passed away without knowing what happened, haven't they?

SF: It's very hard to move on. Your life is very different. Losing a child is different from losing a father or mother or a brother or a sister. Part of your future is gone. For some people or the whole future is gone because they have no other children anymore.

CO: What's your sense of what people -- those families, those people you're in touch with -- what do they want out of this trial?

SF: Justice and the truth. Most of all the truth. What happened? Who did it? Why? Why could this happen? How could this happen? It won't take away our pain and grief, but we have so many questions and we'd like to know the answers. That part can be closed then.

CO: We spoke to you about losing your son Bryce and his girlfriend Daisy about three years ago. It was an intensely difficult time for you. Your grief was quite obvious. Has it changed at all since then? Has the intensity changed at all?

SF: The crying is less. But the missing is becoming more. The pain is still there. Always there. Yeah we try to move on. We do nice things. We go on holiday again but always left a pain in your heart and soul. Always -- it's always there.

CH: Silene Fredriksz's son Bryce and his girlfriend Daisy were killed when Malaysia Airlines flight MH-17 was shot down over eastern Ukraine in 2014. Ms. Fredriksz spoke with Carol in June, 2019 -- when four men were tried in absentia for their alleged involvement in the incident. Today, Australia and the Netherlands announced new legal proceedings against Russia at the International Civil Aviation Organization.

[Music: Folk]

Ukraine Kharkiv Musician

Guest: Oleksandr Honcharov

SOUNDCLIP

[Music: Fast Ukrainian rock]

CH: That's from a concert livestreamed tonight from Kharkiv, Ukraine. The residents of the city have endured more than two weeks of street-to-street fighting and heavy Russian shelling. Hundreds have been killed and wounded. Thousands of others have left with whatever they could carry. But three members of the cover band Selo i Ludy, have stayed to help. They deliver medical aid and essentials between the shelling. And they've turned their basement practice space into a bomb shelter-slash-concert venue that they livestream from when the wi-fi allows. Oleksandr Honcharov is Selo i Ludy's singer and accordionist. We reached him after tonight's performance.

GF: Oleksandr, how was tonight's concert?

OLEKSANDR HONCHAROV: Well, it was great as usual.

GF: Um-hmm?

OH: Because it's not about… just about playing music, it's about communicating with people.

GF: Yeah.

OH: It's about getting feedback, receiving the support, which is the utmost treasure.

GF: And what was it like in Kharkiv today? What was the shelling like?

OH: Well, they are shelling the residential areas, the outskirts of the city, mostly the areas they can actually reach with artillery because now we have the least some air defence systems. So the planes are not flying over Kharkiv for the past three or four days, which was a problem because they were flying and bombing were all over the city. They ruined the city centre, the historical buildings and all the stuff. But now it’s just artillery. And mostly, what we can hear from down here is the outgoing blasts, so our artillery working. And like I say, we are in the dungeon of a castle. A pretty well-defended castle.

GF: How close has the shelling come to you, though, since… since the beginning of this two weeks ago?

OH: This is the 19th day of war. So 18 days ago, there was an incoming missile, and it destroyed the small house that I was renting just near the studio. And like now, we have 600 buildings, apartment buildings, destroyed in the city. And then, I was like the first from everyone I know that had their house destroyed by missiles. But this area wasn't and isn't being shelled much.

GF: Right.

OH: So it's pretty intact here, pretty safe here. So only… only two missiles got nearby.

GF: And you know this because I understand you and your bandmates, you go out during the day, and you help to deliver aid.

OH: Sure.

GF: What kinds of things have you seen in those trips out?

OH: Destroyed parts of the city. And that hurts much.

GF: Can you describe it to us?

OH: Well, it's like in the movies of the war, [laughing] which became a reality here. And that's… that's… that's frightening much, and that’s demoralizing much. That's mobilizing much because you know that now we have the militaries and we have the Territorial Defence, and there's a huge demand to become a part of Territorial Defence. And they are not taking everyone as they do it to Kyiv, which is the target number one one. And we are target number two.

GF: Are you part of the Territorial Defence?

OH: No. It's not that easy to become a part of Territorial Defence, actually. Because they take people with combat experience or with drivers licence Category C and D, which means military vehicles, the cargo vehicles and that stuff. So, no, it's not that easy to become a part of Total Defence in Kharkiv. But we have to work to produce things, to produce the best, the food, everything.

GF: And the music.

OH: So no, we’re not… [chuckling] and the music. Yeah, sure. So we're not part of Territorial Defence, but we are part of all the country that is struggling through this.

GF: If you had been able to, would you have left? Many people have fled.

OH: We are able to leave, actually. It's not Mariupol. We are not surrounded totally. We are able to leave. We are not… but this is our choice.

GF: Why do you stay?

OH: Because it is relatively safe to stay here, and we are needed here. If things get worse, we would think of it once again. Actually, this is every day. We just waiting things out and thinking should we stay or should we leave? Meanwhile, this is the choice to say.

GF: I understand that… that your studio is also being used as a shelter?

OH: Yeah. We don't even hear the sounds of the blasts here. And there is a volunteer base, just… just across the road. And there are people who are trying to evacuate, and they find shelter here to get calm, to be able to make the right and calm decisions. And they have some rest.

GF: Mm-hmm.

OH: We have… we have… we have lots of casualties, actually. And loss rate amongst the military is one to 10. The civilian casualties are worse. Kharkiv is not that big problem as Mariupol. As like, for example, the small city in Kharkiv region. My grandmother is from there, which is surrounded.

GF: Have you lost people?

OH: Which is really hard to escape from. Not my closest friends for now, luckily. And maybe some ones I don't know yet.

GF: Right.

OH: We are losing people.

GF: I can hear the exhaustion in your voice. You're tired.

OH: Yeah, there is some. [chuckling] Sure.

GF: Yeah, do you worry about the future?

OH: Well, I… I kind of… the future is more defined than… than the current because there's no doubt that we're going to win this war. The matter is of the price.

GF: Right, and the price grows each day. Oleksandr, thank you so much for… for speaking with us tonight. Please be safe.

OH: Thank you. [deep sigh, beginning to cry] Yeah. Goodbye. Goodbye.

GF: Bye-bye.

CH: Oleksandr Honcharov is the lead singer and accordionist of the band Selo i Ludy. We reached him in Kharkiv.

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March 14, 2022 Episode Transcript

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