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The AIH Transcript For March 1, 2022

[hosts]Helen Mann, Chris Howden[/hosts]

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening, I'm Chris Howden, this is As It Happens.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

CO: On all fronts. A member of Ukraine's parliament tells us people across the country are showing up to help with the war effort however they can -- on the front lines, and online.

CH: No way out. An Indian medical school student in Kharkiv says his government is arranging evacuations from Hungary and Poland for its citizens -- but he's stuck in a bomb shelter that's nowhere near either border.

CO: Road blocks. An Afghan refugee who was supposed to be in Canada by now is instead trapped in Kyiv with his family. And for them, the situation on the ground is all too familiar.

CH: Long day's journey into night. A reporter who made the trek from Lviv to Poland alongside thousands of fleeing citizens tells us about the harrowing journey -- and the moment Ukraine's military started conscripting men at the border.

CO: SWIFT reprisal. We'll hear from Bob Rae, Canada's ambassador to the UN, about sanctions -- and from a German member of European Parliament who says it's time to expel Russia from the global SWIFT payment network.

CH: And… another job well done before her job’s well done. As you may have gathered, these are not the bills for Carol's final show because this is As It Happens -- and things are happening. So our farewell will happen on Monday.

CH: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that doesn't want to make any carol-less mistakes.

[Music: Theme]

Part 1: Ukraine: Kyiv Defence, Ukraine: Expats Supplies, Dee Snider

Ukraine: Kyiv Defence

Guest: Yuriy Matsarsky

CH: Tonight, people in Kyiv are preparing for the next round of attacks by Russian forces. And there are ominous signs that this could be the big one. The Russian Defense Ministry warned residents that it plans to conduct strikes against Ukraine's security service. And a 65 kilometre-long convoy of Russian tanks and other equipment has amassed just north of the capital. In Kyiv today, the main TV tower was hit by a missile, reportedly killing seven people. Yuriy Matsarsky is a former Ukrainian journalist who has taken up arms as a part of Kyiv's Territorial Defence force. We reached him in Kyiv.

HM: Yuriy, what are you seeing where you are tonight around you?

YURIY MATSARKY: I can hear explosions, so shooting almost every hour for the last five days. I see a lot of destroyed buildings. I see a lot of destroyed cars. I see dead people right on the streets. So it's war, you know? It's… it's… it's really a war. It's not like, you know, somewhere, be really, really far away. You can hear some kind of boom. No, no, we heard tanks here on the streets of Kyiv. We heard the rockets, which are falling on our heads from the skies. It's almost every hour, I can… I can hear bombing or shooting. It's… it's war.

HM: How well-armed are you and your compatriots right now? Do you have guns, anti-tank guns? Do you feel that you have what you need to take on the Russian forces?

YM: I need to… to be clear, I'm working, I'm serving right now in Territorial Defence Forces. Our main mission is to support real soldiers with our fire. So we have machine guns, submachine guns. We have AK guns. We have a lot of bullets for our AK guns. But we have all around us, really professional people who knows how to… to use Javelins, who knows how to use the Stingers, who know how to use anti-tank mines and all other things. Someone called us, but… but I don't agree with this, that we are just, you know, cannon meat. No, we are not cannon meat. We are not here to die. We are here to… to… to get them killed, to get Russians killed. We are full of hate, and we are full of love for our country, for our independence, for our freedom.

HM: You say you are not, to use your words, cannon meat, cannon fodder, but you know you are vulnerable, presumably to the same bullets and the same explosions that are hitting professional soldiers as well. I'm just wondering, are you… are you… are you frightened? Are you worried?

YM: I was much more frightened the first day of the war, when I was not in the Territorial Defence unit. I was much more frightened because I don't… at that time, I didn't know what to do. And when war started at my home town, when you woke up under rocket fire, when you woke up, and the sky is… is burning because of rockets. The sky is burning because of blood. And you don't know what to do? You can't... now, you just can't do your… your ordinary work. You need to… to decide what to do? You need to decide what is your mission here? Completely calm I became when I… when I got my… my gun. When I get my place in my new quarters. So, no. If you want me to know if I scared or not? No, I'm not scared right now. I know that I can die. I know that I can… I can be really badly hurt. It's the price I'm ready to pay for… for independence of our country. It's the price I'm ready to pay for freedom. Of course, I would like our… our Western allies to… to... to do something more. I would like them to… to… to close the sky for Russian drones, for Russian rockets, for Russian aeroplanes. But if not, okay, we will do it by ourselves. If we… if our lives don't really matter for our allies, okay, we will do it by ourselves, for our children, for our grandchildren, for… for… for the people in here, for the people in Ukraine.

HM: It would seem to be an enormous leap to go from being a journalist to someone carrying arms in this war. Can you just tell me how… you know about your thoughts making that transition? How long it took you to come to… to the idea that this is what you should do?

YM: I think it was about 20 minutes, maybe half an hour. It was… it was the hardest. It was the hardest half an hour in my life. It was the hardest half an hour in my life to make this decision. Because all of… all my life, I was telling myself, no, I can't, I can't take guns. I can't take guns in my hands because I'm a journalist. Because I am not militant. It's against all the rules. But now, rules are completely broken, you know? There are not any rules in here. Russia broke all the rules. So we need to… to… to… to… to understand that we need to defend ourselves. So, but the next day, when I came to this station, it was my happiest day of my life. I'm on the front line of defence of my own country. Now… now, my life is becoming more and more and more filled with sadness.

HM: You know, we've all seen these pictures of these columns of… this column, I should say, of tanks and other Russian vehicles stretching for many kilometres that could be sent into Kyiv to attack you at any moment. How can you possibly stop them?

YM: I can't do it. I can't do it. But I told you, there are a lot of guys and girls who are, you know, guts of war, they're guts of war. Because war in Ukraine, it's not new, you know? Eight years, for eight years, a huge part of Ukraine is occupied by Russians. And for all these eight years, the war was raging in the east part of Ukraine. And there were a lot of people with excellent, excellent military experience, with excellent military training. Our mission is to help them, to stay in one line and to… to cover them with our fire. The longer we can do it, the bigger damage they can do to… to Russian forces.

HM: What are you thinking about what the next hours and days might bring?

YM: I don't know? Because, you know, I just told you, every hour is shooting, every hour is bombing. Sometimes, a tank or a tanks or armoured vehicles trying to… to get through our checkpoints and to… to get to the centre of Kyiv. And a lot of terrorists, a lot of Russian terrorists, is doing bad things in Ukraine, in cities and towns. They're planting bombs. They're doing really, really bad things. I really, really, really want to do everything to be… to be fine. I really, really want to… to, I don't know, maybe some missiles from the Ukrainian forces can destroy all this… all these bad people with little toys. But I'm preparing also for a fight. I'm here for a… for a fight. I'm here for my country.

HM: Yuriy, thank you for talking to us at this terrible time. I appreciate it.

YM: Thank you. Thank you.

HM: Bye-bye.

YM: Bye.

CH: Yuriy Matsarsky is a former Ukrainian journalist who has taken up arms as a part of Kyiv's Territorial Defence force. We reached him in Kyiv.

[Music: Ambient]

Ukraine: Expats Supplies

Guest: Oksana Litynska

CH: Since Russia's invasion of Ukraine last week, we've seen protests around the world, efforts to gather donations and supplies for Ukrainians on the front lines -- and in some cases, we've seen people pack a bag, get on a plane, and go to fight. When Dennis Ougrin and Oksana Litynska heard the news last week, they felt they had to respond to the calls for help. They were both born in Ukraine but live in the U.K. On the weekend, they embarked on the hours-long drive to Poland to drop off bags of medical supplies near the border. We reached Oksana Litynska today on the road.

HM: Oksana, are you home yet?

OKSANA LITYNSKA: No. At the moment, we are driving from seeing a warehouse to potentially store medical supplies. So we're near Stansted, and we're driving back home.

HM: So, have you been able to get any rest, any sleep these past few days?

OL: I don't think any of the Ukrainians and many of our supporters have been able to get any rest.

HM: What do you know about the supplies you dropped off at the border with Ukraine? Have they made it into Ukraine?

OL: So, we've dropped off three kinds of supplies. The most important bit was this… this… the unit -- the ultrasound unit. And it is a mobile ultrasound unit. It is a very expensive thing. That's why I think one of the things that urged us to drive ourselves. Actually, a friend of the nurses has managed to obtain this at a huge discount, so we wanted to make sure it does reach the right destination, which is the Lviv military hospital. And we've received news today, a couple of hours ago, that it's already in use. And it's very appreciated.

HM: You were able to collect all of these supplies in I understand about the span of a day?

OL: Yes, that's right. I work for a South African bank, and the war started while I was on a work trip in Johannesburg. So, I've arrived very early in the morning on Friday. So the war started on Thursday. I've arrived home very early on Friday, 6:00 a.m., and saw my husband sitting on the stairs. That's where he thinks [chuckle]. And he said, we've got to get to Ukraine. So, I said, yeah, of course, to the Polish-Ukrainian border. And he, with the help of other members of the Ukrainian Medical Association, were able to procure a lot of stuff within one day. And specifically, that's a mobile portable ultrasound unit. I think that was amazing to be able to do that in the day. And Saturday, at 2:30 in the morning, we left.

HM: Have you been able to find out how your family members are doing in Ukraine?

OL: So, I have a father and mother, thankfully still alive. They're alive. They're in their mid-to-late 70s. My husband has also parents in the early 70s. Actually, his mother just broke her leg a couple of months ago, and his father suffered from COVID, so not in the best of situations. And I have a brother, and my brother has a wife and two kids. And so, they managed to get onto the train -- his wife and two kids, he stayed behind -- managed to get on the train from Lviv to Poland, and we met them in Poland.

HM: What have your parents and your husband's parents said? Are they planning to stay put? Or would they like to… to try and get out?

OL: I think they're very defiant. Dennis's father is organizing a Territorial Army defence or Territorial Defence. My father's a little bit older. They went into the house in the village, and they have like already in the flat in the city, 10 misplaced, internally displaced, persons and another 10 they're hosting in their house in the village. And I think they're very defiant. My father says that if he takes out one person, you know, one Russian soldier, then his life was not in vain.

HM: You and your husband are very connected, as I understand it, with others in England's Ukraine community. He is the founding member of the Ukrainian Medical Association of the UK. You have the Ukrainian Scouts Program of Great Britain. Obviously, you have great contacts. I'm just wondering how your community is coping? And what you have been doing to support each other over the last six days?

OL: Yes. You see, Ukrainians are very free-spirited [chuckle]. But for us, firstly, what I wanted to say, for us, it's not new. It started in 2014. So in 2014, you know, there were certain algorithms that were worked through, which means that now, we've started, if you were to talk in a gamer's talk, not on level one, but level five. So it's more or less already understood what needs to be done?

HM: Well, you mentioned this going back, the tension going back to 2014. This is not the first time you have helped bring supplies to Ukraine. I understand when the invasion happened in Crimea that you actually drove across Ukraine to do something similar?

OL: Yes, definitely. So when the invasion happened, and 2014 happened, we've donated a couple of cars. One of the vehicles was to retrieve… with a fridge inside, to help retrieve the remains and bring them back to their parents from the field of the battle. And the second vehicle was like just a normal Jeep-type vehicle, and it was to help support a bigger drone, as I understand. That's where it ended up.

HM: Do you plan to make more supply drops at the border in the coming days and weeks?

OL: We are deciding what we should be doing. It will be great to galvanize more and more people and do like a big, you know, rally and drive from the U.K. to Ukraine. And maybe Dennis might do that. But I think for me, there will be more value if I stay here and try and organize this supply chain.

HM: It's incredible the work that you are doing. Thank you so much for speaking with us.

OL: Thank you so much. I just wanted to say how, you know, humbled we are with all the support we're getting. You know, from not just Ukrainians, but from all… all over. Like, we have been today to the oxygen regulators guy. He's donated two big boxes. And they're quite expensive and very tricky and intricate things. And, you know, to somebody who manages logistics trying to help us, what does it mean transporting, you know, all these medical supplies? To this… some Polish people here that are, you know, trying to help as well as countries, you know, Britain and Poland. And others is we're just really overwhelmed. We're not used to being really… I don't know if that's too harsh to say, believed or listened to? Perhaps people believed but didn't understand the extent of how crazy Putin is when we were shouting about it all the time. So we're really grateful for that support.

HM: Does that somehow encourage you in what you're doing and your feelings about the situation?

OL: Oh, definitely. That really helps carry that forward, but we would still do it no matter what.

HM: Oksana, thank you. It's been good to talk to you.

OL: Thank you so much, and have a good day.

HM: You, too. Take care. Bye-bye.

OL: All right. Thank you. Bye-bye.

CH: Oksana Litynska went to Poland to drop off medical supplies for Ukraine. We reached her on the road in England as she headed back to London.

[Music: Glassy guitar]

Promo: LR To Carol

CH: We just want to take a moment early in the show to thank all of you for your calls, emails and social media messages before, during, and after last night's program. After 16 years, as I'm sure you know, it was Carol's last show as host of As It Happens. Her departure means a lot to those of us who work here. And it's clear that it means a lot to you, as well. So later on tonight's program we'll take a few minutes to play some calls. We'll read a few of your tweets and emails. And, as an avid home chef -- and the owner of, I believe, multiple Instant Pots -- I know Carol will appreciate that cooking featured prominently in many of them. We'll also have a brief update about what things are going to sound like on As It Happens over the next few weeks. And that's later on tonight's show.

[Music: Ambient]

Dee Snider

Guest: Dee Snider

[Music: “We’re Not Gonna Take It” by Twisted Sister]

DEE SNIDER: [singing] We're not gonna take it! No, we ain't gonna take it! Oh, we're not gonna take it anymore.

CH: This is American band Twisted Sister's 1984 hit "We're Not Gonna Take It." A song that was huge in its day. And because of its extremely clear message about not taking it, it's been used by politicians and protesters ever since as a rallying anthem. But back in 2020, when anti-mask protesters entered a Target store, playing that song on a speaker, Twisted Sister frontman Dee Snider took to Twitter. He wrote that they didn't have his "permission or blessing" to use his song for their -- quote -- "moronic cause." Whereas, this past weekend on Twitter, he publicly endorsed the use of "We're Not Gonna Take It" by the Ukrainian people. Mr. Snider's grandfather was Ukrainian. We reached Dee Snider in Los Angeles.

HM: Dee Snider, why was it important for you to endorse "We're Not Gonna Take It" for the Ukrainian people?

DS: You know, I don't want to trivialize this tweet in any way. I mean, it was thought out, and it was intentional, but I didn't think it was that big a deal. Someone on social media said, Ukraine… there's Ukrainians using "We're Not Gonna Take It". And I said, I totally endorse that. I support that. It was designed to be a song where people can read their personal strife and struggle, whether it's your teachers or your parents or your government or an invasion, whatever. But then I started to get some people ask me, saying, well, how come you support that, but you know, you denounced the anti-maskers? You know, and I was processing that, and I was about to head out the door to get Sunday morning or Saturday morning bagels for my family. And I said, you know, this is why. And I wrote it down. And I came back a couple of hours later and opened up my Twitter feed, and it exploded. And I said, Whoa! I didn't realize I sort of hit the nail on the head in my comparison. And people were really... I don't know, it's… it's still going crazy right now, the whole social media thing.

HM: Yeah. Tell us what you said about the difference between those two groups?

DS: I'm going to be paraphrasing, and I worded it really well. [chuckle] I'm a good writer, actually. But I just said, you know, one group are fighting for their lives against oppression and tyranny for real. It is a life-and-death situation. The other group are screaming that they're being oppressed because they're being asked to wear a piece of paper over their nose and mouth. It's just so ludicrous, you know? And when you put that kind of perspective on it, they just… it look… it looks embarrassing when you see these true people fighting for their lives, struggling for their lives, in Ukraine. And you get these silly people, I said they were stamping their feet like little children, and I don't want to wear my mask, you know? So, it just… it's just… it's ridiculous.

HM: Now, you said that you had heard second-hand that people in Ukraine were using the song. Have you actually heard it being used by Ukrainians right now?

DS: No, I have not. When it's the ones I don't like, I get those videos instantly. [said with a sarcastic voice] It's like, hey, check out these anti-maskers at Target singing your song. Hey, check out the truckers on the bridge who were block… you know, doing a blockade and keeping people from eating, you know? Yeah, hey, check that out. What do you say about that, Dee? But when somebody, like, positive sings it, I don't hear about it. [chuckling] I don't see… nobody fires off those videos. Here's one, hey, hey, this family singing it, you know, in celebration of something, you know?

HM: Have you heard anything from anyone in Ukraine since you… you gave this endorsement?

DS: Well, it's really hard to tell. I say that because so many people have put Ukrainian flags on their social media handles, you know, in solidarity. And at first, I thought, oh, wow! Look at all these Ukrainians! And then I realized, oh, these aren't all Ukrainians. These are people who are just standing with Ukraine. So I certainly have translated a number of… of tweets and... and social media posts that have been in the Ukrainian language. And it's definitely been people who… from Ukraine who I know are over there fighting for their lives, who have thanked me. Again, what's really impressive is how many people around the world have sort of, you know, set aside their differences and said, this is a real problem.

HM: What did the band have in mind when… when you guys wrote the song in the early 80s?

DS: Well, I am the writer. I wrote the song myself. And, you know, I was an angry young man. And it was a song about being mad at my dad and being mad at my teachers and mad at my bosses and mad at ex-girlfriends who said I was never going to be anything, you know, and all that stuff. So it was one of those teen angst songs. But as a songwriter, I always try to leave it open for interpretation. Sometimes, people use a song like "Teachers". A number of years ago, teachers were using it as their battle cry. And I was like, yes, teachers! Yes, you get it! And what people don't understand is that for commercial use, yes, I have control. But for just, like, singing it, just at a rally or something, I have zero... the songwriter has zero control. And people for some reason think, oh, you wrote the song, that means you endorse them, which is not always the case. So the only thing the songwriter or the band can do is… is denounce the people. So, you know, cheer on the people who you support. Like, I was on a Broadway stage, I walked out and said before I sang "We're Not Gonna Take It", I said, this one's for the teachers. And it… you know, it was all over the place because everybody supports teachers. But then when Paul Ryan, who's anti-choice, the politician was using it, I had to denounce him. I said, Dude, the first line of the song is we've got the right to choose. How can you be singing my song? And they stopped immediately. [chuckling] He said, what? What are the words? We got the right to choose? No, no, you don't have the right to choose! So, all the writer or a band can do is say that I stand with those people or I stand against those people, but you can't stop them from using it.

HM: Do you plan to use your platform in any other ways to support the Ukrainian people?

DS: I mean, you know, I would love to do something with it. You know, somebody approached me and said, what about doing an all-star rerecording of it for the Ukrainian people and to raise money? All proceeds going to, you know, the people who are being, you know, just being… I don't know if they're just being out of their homes? Their lives are being… are being destroyed. I said, you know, I would support doing something like that in an instant. But, you know, with something like that, you need some really big players, bigger than me. I need the Springsteen's and the Bonos of the world to step forward and say, Dee, we'll do this with you. Because, you know, a bunch of hair bands aren't going to get the… the interest of the world. But then again, I apparently got the interest of the world with my tweet. So, who knows?

HM: You certainly did. And you're talking with us about it, too, which is great. It's been a real pleasure to speak with you. Thank you so much.

DS: Thank you. And, you know, and what… what can I say to end here? I'm glad that this thing resonated with people. But we need more than just words. We need actions. And I'm glad to see that Canada and the United States and all the free nations are joining together, even Switzerland. My mother was Swiss! [HM chuckles] and my father used to always say, they're always neutral. They never… you know, they never… they… they put money for the Nazis, they protect… and they've actually stepped up. So my mom's passed away. But Mom, you know, I know my dad's proud of your country now. [chuckle]

HM: Thank you, Dee.

DS: All right. Take care.

HM: Bye.

DS: Bye-bye.

CH: That was Dee Snider, lead singer of Twisted Sister, speaking to us from Los Angeles. And you can find more on that story on our webpage: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Folk]

Part 2: Ukraine: Border Racism, Sneaky Magpies

Ukraine: Border Racism

Guest: Jessica Orakpo

CH: As the Russian invasion of Ukraine continues, people are heading to the safety of neighbouring countries. But not everyone is treated equally when they arrive at the border. Today, the United Nations confirmed that non-European refugees are facing discrimination when trying to move out of Ukraine. Jessica Orakpo is a Nigerian student at Ternopil National Medical University in Ukraine. We reached her today in Debrecen, Hungary.

HM: Jessica, we have reached you in Hungary. How are you doing now?

JESSICA ORAKPO: Currently, I'm fine. I'm just really tired, and like trying to process everything I've been through. But right now, I'm okay. I'm with friends, and I'm currently in a safe apartment.

HM: Can you take us back to Friday? When did you realize that you had to leave Ukraine?

JO: I realized I had to leave between, like Friday morning, after it happened… the stuff happened on Thursday. And, like, it was really scary. And, like, we had to start strategizing what country would take us? Do we go home? We literally checked tickets back to Nigeria, and like, it was so expensive. And it was even cancelled. So, we got reports Friday that borders were opening up for citizens, certain citizens. And we reached out to our embassy that, you know, they should give, like, Poland or nearby countries an official letter to receive our citizens. But we didn't get any reply. All we got was, stay calm for the meantime. We couldn't stay calm, obviously, because there was a bomb, and we didn't know if was going to happen again. So, on Saturday morning, I took a commercial taxi by 8:00 a.m. to the Polish border, you know? But there was a long line for the private cars that would love to enter the border. And the commercial taxi said he cannot go from this point on because of the traffic, that I would have to walk, and it was a one-hour walk, roughly. And we looked on Google Maps, and that's what it said. So we were like, okay, that's fine. And we started walking, and it wasn't a one-hour walk. Literally, I started from past 11:00 to 12:00, and I literally was still walking past 10 p.m.

HM: And you say we. Who were you with?

JO: I was with my friend. She's Zambian; her name is Natiza. And by 10:00 p.m., I was so cold I was literally contemplating going back to my city because I couldn't do it anymore. And the traffic warden saw me and said I should go to a shelter. And before I got there, asked the warden, like, how would I get to the border because I cannot walk anymore? He said there will be a bus in the morning that… that goes straight to the border.

HM: What was it like to rest after all those hours walking?

JO: Like, I couldn't believe it. Like, I was asking my friend we are not walking? Like, did we stop walking? At the time, walking was like... it's really traumatizing to me. My leg, I have like blood clots because of like… it's literally like someone punched my leg, you? I have bruises on my legs. So we just rested on the floor. We're just… we're just so happy to sleep and be warm.

HM: You mentioned that the bus, that the traffic warden had told you that there was going to be a bus in the morning. Tell me about getting to that bus and what happened when you got there?

JO: Well, that was the most traumatic thing. For me, that was the most… one that is still messing up in my mind. I got to the bus, you know, just to get at the front of the line. And we waited to, like, 6:00 a.m. when the first bus came. And all the bus was just women with babies and, you know, families with babies and women. No man was allowed into this bus. So we were like, okay, we understand we should go first. We don't know when another one is coming. Then, it kept coming. Only Ukrainians were getting let on the bus. Only Ukrainians. I begged. I literally had to lie that I was pregnant just to be considered because no Black person was allowed. There was a pregnant Black woman there. She wasn't allowed on the bus.

HM: Did someone say anything to you about this? Or was it just apparent to you that you were not being allowed on the bus because you are Black?

JO: I… I speak a certain per cent of the language, so I went to a warden, and I asked, please, can I get on this bus? He literally said, Ukrayintsi, ot i vse, that means Ukrainians, that's all. Animals were being let on. There was space animal, but there wasn't space for me and my friends and other Black people in the line. She looks for a Black guy in the line. They were asking him, why is he in the line? That he should start walking like it was an easy journey. Then, when I was about to enter, a Ukrainian asked me, Chomu chorni? That means, why Blacks? Like, they are here. So why should Blacks enter when they are also trying to enter, literally.

HM: So what did you do?

JO: I took a taxi back to my city, literally. Back to Ternopil because I gave up. I was tired because I just said I will just give up. Anything that happens, I will just go to a bunker and, you know, hope for the best. But hope… and, thankfully, a friend back in my city had gotten a taxi that would take us to a train station to get on a train straight to Hungary. And we got there, there were so many people. Most times, internationals. But the thing is, there were soldiers there, and they were pushing everybody back. But my friend tried, you know, offering money to one of the officials that, please, just let my sister in. And they allowed us in just because we could pay.

HM: So, you basically paid someone off?

JO: Yeah, literally. I paid like a hundred dollars just to pass, just to get in that special room and get stamped, just to get the Ukrainian stamp that I'm out of Ukraine on board a train going to Hungary, yeah.

HM: Your story is… is not unique. The United Nations has confirmed that people trying to leave Ukraine are facing racism. What does it say to you that during a war, at this time of crisis when people are supposed to be helping each other, that… that you experienced this kind of racism?

JO: It's really sad that, you know… that we would face that. It's not new. In Ukraine… in Ukraine, there are hints of racism every time, but I never really felt it this deep. And even before this happened, when there was just a threat from Russia, I kept telling my school to please let us go home. Give us, like, online study process, for example. Just let us be home because we know that in worst-case scenarios, we would be the least of importance. Because obviously, Ukrainians will want their nationals first. And it's really sad that what we expected to happen is happening. We are the least priority, even though I understand, you would say you would help your brother first in any crisis rather than a stranger. It's understandable. But if you really want to let your citizens go, also give the internationals a fair chance. But to say we cannot have any chance of leaving, that is really sad. And to treat us like we are animals is really barbaric.

HM: Where will you go now? What are you going to do?

JO: Right now, I don't know now because I have to try to figure out a way to get a ticket back home because it's quite expensive. And owing to the fact that I'm in my final year of medical school. I have four months left to graduate, so I'm torn between: do I wait here and see how… see how this situation plays out? Or go back home to Africa to start all over again? You know, it is very devastating for me because I had a plan: graduate with my degree and move on to a medical career. But right now, it's like I have to start all over. And I've been studying this course for close to seven years. It's not… it's not a joke.

HM: Jessica, I'm really glad to hear that you are safe now. Thank you for telling us about this experience.

JO: You're welcome. I'm happy to help.

HM: All right. You take care.

JO: Have a nice day.

HM: Bye-bye.

CH: Jessica Orakpo is a Nigerian medical student who was studying in Ukraine before she had to flee. She was in Debrecen, Hungary.

[Music: Ambient]

Sneaky Magpies

Guest: Dominique Potvin

CH: Humans are arrogant. We believe that we, without exception, are smarter than animals. After all, we can walk on our hind legs while talking and staring at our phones. Some of us can even do math. So there's absolutely no way we could be tricked by animals -- especially not birds, with their tiny brains. That was the assumption scientists in Australia made when they were testing a new tracking device to help monitor magpies. But they soon discovered they'd been outfoxed. Or outbirded. Dominique Potvin is an ornithologist and the lead researcher. We reached her in Brisbane, Australia.

HM: Dominique, what happened to the trackers that you and your colleagues had placed on these birds?

DOMINIQUE POTVIN: Well, surprisingly, a non-tracked bird actually came down and started to peck at the tracker of a tracked bird. They worked on this harness, which is like a backpack, for about 20 minutes, until they finally located the one millimetre section that was the one weak point on the harness and were able to take them off.

HM: And it took them only about 20 minutes to figure this out?

DP: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, it's… it was a bit of a puzzle for them, but they were pretty tenacious and they definitely figured it out. And this happened to all five birds that we had piloted these trackers on. So, by the end of the third day, even the dominant male of the group had had his tracker removed.

HM: Did they remove them from each other? Or did one bird remove all the trackers?

DP: Yeah. Oh yeah, so this is the interesting thing, we don't actually know. Because, you know, they took the trackers off, [both chuckle] so we couldn't track who is doing what? But we do know that the first bird did not have a tracker on. Now, whether… yeah, whether it was the same bird that went around to everybody and took all of the trackers off, so one little helper bird, or whether it was, you know, a pay-it-forward kind of situation, we are not sure. And it would be so fascinating to find out, you know, what the social relationships were like for the birds that were helping and those that were, you know, standing still for 20 minutes, allowing the other bird to help them as well.

HM: Now, initially, what were you trying to test or find out by placing the trackers on the magpies?

DP: Yeah, so magpies are a very ubiquitous urban bird, and we were really hoping to look at how they deal with certain urban challenges like peak hour traffic, noisy areas, as well as get some insight into their complex social relationships. So, you know, we get things like siblings helping to raise young. And then, other siblings getting kicked out of the group. And we don't really understand why, you know, some members get to stay in the group, others get kicked out. You know, who goes to neighbouring groups and things like that. So we were hoping to find out a little bit more about the social interactions and their social relationships, as well as their movements throughout the landscape.

HM: So what was it like the moment when you realized what was happening with the removal of the trackers?

DP: [chuckle] You know, when they started pecking at it, we were still a little bit cocky. We didn't think they were going to figure it out. We were like, this is… this is a pretty, you know, complex problem. You know, they're smart, but they'll probably get bored or tired of it and just, you know, accept the fate and move on. When they were working on it for quite some time, we did start to get a little bit nervous. And then, when we saw that first tracker fall, they were actually up really high and it fell onto a building, so we couldn't even retrieve the tracker. That's when all of our faces dropped and we just looked at each other [HM chuckles] and thought, oh no, this is all over. [chuckling]

HM: What happened to the birds once the trackers were removed?

DP: Yeah, they flew away. [both laugh] And started living their lives free as a bird, I guess you could say.

HM: You lost your research subjects.

DP: We lost our research subjects. We lost four out of our five expensive pieces of equipment. Yeah, the whole thing was over. But, you know, when we went back to the literature to check out, you know, other species that had potentially also done this. You know, what had we missed? Could we have been more prepared for this? We actually found that no other birds had been documented being able to do this. So… so, you know, some people are saying, oh, magpies are really smart. You shouldn't have been that surprised. But, to be honest, you really can't predict how animals are going to respond to… to trackers being put on them. And so, you know, doing these pilot studies, putting a handful of devices on, you know, we're just trying to see what happens. And we just managed to discover kind of a new… a new behaviour that hadn't really been documented before, which was… it made it feel a little bit better. We made lemonade out of lemons, I guess.

HM: So… so, what is significant to you about the observations that you made? What does it tell you about the birds?

DP: So, it's this cool combination of problem solving abilities and this social interaction and social intelligence. So, you know, a lot of birds do have quite interesting social relationships. They clean each other in a process called alo preening. And they take parasites off of each other. And they talk to each other and things like this. But to actually have to solve a problem and interact in a way that you know, you're kind of… you have to tell the other bird to stay still, or they have to know that they have to stay still while you're working on this problem. It just requires sort of a little bit of an extra step in that intelligence kind of sphere. And we had only found one other documented case whereby this kind of behaviour had been described in the literature. So you might term this rescue behaviour, where you have to solve a problem to save another individual altruistically. So you're not actually getting any benefit yourself from it. So with, you know, things like parasites, you might be getting a snack after, you know, cleaning a parasite off another bird. But with this, they're not getting anything. So it's, you know, they might be strengthening social relationships and strengthening social social bonds. But really, it seems very altruistic. It's… it's not giving them any tangible reward right away. So, so, yeah, rescue behaviour. It's very, very uncommon to find it and see it in the animal kingdom. And, yeah, it was kind of amazing. You know, after we kind of dried our tears about the whole project, [HM chuckles, DP laughs] it was pretty amazing to see. They were just built for it, the brains, the bill, their relationships. Yeah, they… they definitely had a one-up on us.

HM: It's fascinating. Thank you so much, Dominique. Nice to talk to you.

DP: Thanks for having me.

HM: Okay, bye-bye.

DP: Bye.

CH: Dominique Potvin is the author of a study looking at the social dynamics of Australian magpies. Her findings are published in the journal Australian Field Ornithology. We reached her in Brisbane. And you can find more on that story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Jazz]

Rubik’s Cube Record

CH: In 1891, George H. Herrington of Wichita, Kansas, patented a stilt with a spring on the bottom -- widely considered to be the first true pogo stick. Mr. Herrington described it as "for leaping great distances and heights" in his patent. Which is patent bull… hogwash: it's clearly a device for hopping tiny distances at low heights, before falling over on your elbows. Not for Saul Hafting, though. He's a master of two once-trendy toys that wind up at the back of most people's closets: pogo sticks and Rubik's Cubes. Most of us struggle to master either one. Mr. Hafting has mastered both at the same time.

[sc]

SAUL HAFTING: I'm Saul Hafting. I'm going to be attempting to break the world record for most rotating puzzle cubes solved on a pogo stick.

MAN: Go!

[Sound: The bed spring-like twang of a pogo stick]

CH: On October 9th of last year, at Annapolis West Education Centre in Annapolis Royal, Nova Scotia, 16-year-old Saul Hafting bounced on a pogo stick for an hour and 12 minutes while solving 211 "rotating puzzle cubes". That's almost three cubes solved per minute, all while clutching the pogo stick between his knees. You might assume that would be tough on the knees. And you would be right -- as Mr. Hafting explained to Global News Morning Halifax.

SOUNDCLIP

SH: I would bounce on a pogo stick as long as I could, like as many days of the week I could. But when it got… it got to the point, so I would bounce on it for like ten minutes, and that's all I could do. And then I’d bounce on it the next day for a little longer. And then, it got to the point where I was doing like 45 minutes non-stop. And I was wearing shorts, so my knees… I would get like blisters on my legs from just holding the pogo stick. So then I couldn’t bounce on the pogo stick for another week because my legs had blisters on them. So I had to figure out a way to… like, where… like in the video, I'm wearing pants. And I am actually wearing knee pads underneath so that my… my knees don't get, like, chafed. So once I figured that out, I could bounce a lot longer. But yeah, I would bounce for like 45 minutes at a time, every few days.

CH: That knee-blistering pace set a world record -- which was just certified by Guinness. Mr. Hafting officially shattered the previous record of 65, without shattering any Rubik's Cubes, or himself. We will never understand how. But: why?

SOUNDCLIP

SH: Well, I've always been interested in Guinness World Records, I thought. But so many of those records are so, like, crazy difficult to get. I didn't think that I would ever be, like, on a level where I would be… that it would be possible for me to get a record. And I knew that I… if I could incorporate Rubik's Cubes with something, I might be on that level where I could maybe break one. So I… I scoured the internet and looked on YouTube for records that I might be able to break. And so, the first one that I… that I attempted, it was the fastest time. So I tried that. And I broke it. But then some other guy broke it before mine was official. So then, this is the second try. So we got most on a pogo stick, so yeah.

CH: Saul Hafting, speaking with Global News Morning Halifax. It's a stunning achievement, especially to those of us who feel like it's as implausible as it is impossible. So congratulations to Saul Hafting -- and his parents -- for their bouncing teenage boy.

[Music: Indie pop]

Part 3: New South Whales Flooding, London Mosaic Floor

WPG Football Player Enlisting

CH: The call to arms in Ukraine is attracting people from all walks of life -- teachers, plumbers, bus drivers. Pretty much anyone over 18 is being encouraged to join the resistance. And now, a growing wave of foreign nationals is also answering that call. Svyatik Artemenko is one of those people. He's a Canadian from Winnipeg who was born in Ukraine. He recently travelled from his home in Winnipeg to Ukraine to play soccer -- but is now gearing up to defend the country against Russia.

SOUNDCLIP

SVYATIK ARTEMENKO: Deep down inside, there's always the fear of, like, losing my life. And obviously, it's a war, so it is normal to feel a bit of fear. But the feeling of pride and taking responsibility, it surpasses the sense of fear. So, at that point, I don't even really feel fear anymore. So, well, my family, I remember I gave them a call, and they… they told me, am I… am I 100 per cent certain with my decision? Because once I make that decision and go and sign up, there's… there's no way of going back. And that wasn't even a thought in my head to leave or to flee the country. My initial thought always stayed with me to… to enrol and… and go to war here. Because, again, I came here for soccer. But soccer is cancelled due to the war. So, I want to get back on the football pitch here. And the only way to do it is to end the war. So we need as many people as possible to go fight and end this war. My friends are obviously a bit more concerned because this isn't something that they witness or experience every day, having friends in a war zone. But there's nothing really that they could say or do to change my mind on that. Because, again, that's not something that they would understand. And I hope that they never get to make a decision like that.

NATHAN LIEWICKI: What… what's the mood like in Odesa or even in western Ukraine when you were… when you were there?

SA: So, I'll start off with western Ukraine because that's where I was when it first started. So, in the city that I was in, Khmelnytskyi, it wasn't that bad because we only had one bombing go off outside of the… just outside the city, and that was about it. The only thing that you… you do see is military troops patrolling the whole city. And… and we do have martial law right now. So after 10:00 p.m., you're not allowed to go, like, outside your house. But here in Odessa, it's a bit more serious because there's obviously, like, shootings and bombings going off here quite often. But something… something you have to just, I guess, get used to and just adapt to it.

CH: Svyatik Artemenko is a 22-year-old Canadian professional goalkeeper who has enlisted to join Ukraine's armed forces. He was speaking to CBC journalist Nathan Liewicki.

[Music: Bold piano]

B.C. Woman Enlists

CH: From thousands of kilometres away in Canada, it's hard to keep up with the situation on the ground in Ukraine. Especially with the deluge of misinformation online. But over the past week, 17-year-old Anastasiya Ishchook of Cranbrook, B.C., has quickly become the leading voice in the region about the Russian invasion of her home country. And after seeing what's happening there, Ms. Ishchook says she now wants to join the Canadian Armed Forces.

SOUNDCLIP

ANASTASIYA ISHCHOOK: When this war started happening, I just became very passionate about standing up for my cause. And being in the Armed Forces, I think would… it would kind of support my motivation that I've been feeling for the last few days here. I think that young people are the prime sort of not source of information, but they're very good with social media and with spreading that information. So a lot of us have been posting on her Instagram Stories, like news that we're getting from reliable news sources. And then, other people see that, and they can see the Russian propaganda. I do have a friend that had to flee to Poland. They had to wake up at 5:00 a.m. when the whole thing kind of started first. And they just went to the border. They had to wait five hours in line to get to the border. They had friends that had to… that left a few hours later than them, and they had to wait for two days in a line to get to the border. Now he is a refugee, and he is in a shelter. They might have to go to the U.S., to America. I have never been prouder to say that I come from Ukraine. Just so much pride. I see homeless people making like Molotov cocktails out of beer bottles. I see just regular civilians stopping tanks with their bare hands. I am so proud to see how brave my people are.

CH: That was 17-year-old Anastasiya Ishchook, who lives in Cranbrook, B.C. She was speaking with Chris Walker, host of Daybreak South.

[Music: Vocalization]

New South Whales Flooding

Guest: Rafqa Touma

CH: Something called a "rain bomb" has just hit the east coast of Australia. And it's as bad as it sounds. The record-breaking deluge of rain has forced tens of thousands of people from their homes. The flooding is believed to be the worst in decades -- and ten people have already died. Rafqa Touma is a reporter for the Guardian Australia who's been reporting on the floods. We reached her in Sydney.

HM: Rafqa, the images are just astonishing; there is so much devastation. Will you describe for us what you're seeing in the flooded areas?

RAFQA TOUMA: Um-hmm. So the flooded areas are hitting two states. So, I'm in Sydney in New South Wales. And last week, the flood, which is being called a rain bomb, hit Queensland, which is north of New South Wales, and it moved down to the northeastern regions of New South Wales, and the floods are being called one-in-500-year floods. That's how extreme they are.

HM: How quickly have the floods hit these areas? Have people had much warning?

RT: Yep, so it's been called flash flooding. And in areas, evacuation notices were given out at 7:00 a.m. warning that a flood was about to hit. That's how unprecedented it is.

HM: We know residents have been ordered out. What are you hearing from those fleeing because of the floods?

RT: So, there are 145,000 disaster payment applications made across New South Wales and Queensland. And 90,000 of them were submitted yesterday alone. So, the urgency is picking up. And we're hearing of thousands of people urgently trying to evacuate but being unable to. So, emergency services like SES and the police are completely inundated. People don't know where to reach in order to get out. Some families don't want to leave their homes and want to wait for the waters to settle so that they can see what is left of their homes. Stories I've heard from speaking to locals in areas like Lismore, which is in northeastern New South Wales and rural paddock areas just outside of Lismore, share really shocking stories. So these people live on flood plains, near rivers, near mountain ranges, and they live in a climate that is prone to floods, especially in Brisbane. And so, they've experienced floods. Their houses are built on stilts to try and acclimatize to flood conditions. But what has been happening over the last few days is not like anything they've kind of experienced before. One woman in Lagoon Grass, which is just outside of Lismore in northeast New South Wales, told me about watching a neighbour who she has never met, who lives two kilometres away across paddocks and roads, watching her house go completely under on Monday night. She woke up on Tuesday morning, she checked the local Facebook group, and she hadn't heard anything from those neighbours. And she was terrified for their condition. And so, she's not athletic, and she got in a kayak, and what had been paddocks and roads turned to a river. And she kayaked across the river, very fast flood waters. She was recommended by many other locals on the Facebook group to not go out there. And when she reached the house, she saw an overturned boat. She saw windows completely smashed in. The side of the house was caved in. And she said she saw the lives of these people just floating past her. And obviously, she was concerned. She shouted out for them. And thankfully, she heard them and found them behind the house, sitting in a boat. They had no food, no water, so she had dropped off non-perishables. And the couple didn't want to leave. They had nowhere to go. They lost everything, all of their animals, three cars. And so they were just waiting for floodwaters to settle so they could see what was left of their lives that had been lost.

HM: You've actually written of quite a number of people who've been reaching out to help neighbours, strangers, friends and everybody, really. How much has this really forced people to kind of take care of themselves, take care of each other, as opposed to counting on official assistance?

RT: Official assistance is doing everything they can, and I think people are very grateful for the efforts. But it has definitely come down to community volunteers and neighbours looking out for each other, especially relatives, friends of friends, posting about missing people with long lists of addresses. People are taking initiative, putting it upon themselves to send updates to these local, regional flood resilience groups on who has been saved, where not to waste resources, where to direct resources, where fuel for boats can be dropped off, if people need baby supplies. There are also lots of local businesses, like hotels opening their doors for the night for people who have been evacuated but don't actually have anywhere to go. And so, you're seeing this huge influx of community support across regions. And one woman that I spoke to in northeastern New South Wales just brought it down to the Australian spirit. I'm not sure if that is cliche, but that really stuck with me.

HM: And now, there are warnings of even more flooding in Australia.

RT: Um-hmm.

HM: Can you tell us what kind of preparations are being made?

RT: Yes. So over the last few days, the evacuation and flood warnings have sat at the north of the region, moving down from Queensland to north New South Wales. And now, they're expecting waters to settle in those regions, hopefully over the next day or so, but the weather will be moving down south, so closer to Sydney CBD area. So we have been warned of life-threatening flash flooding for Sydney, which is where I'm located. And we are expecting up to 200 millimetres of rain. So, our Bureau of Meteorology initially forecasted 150 millimetres of rain, and that very quickly upped to 200 millimetres, if that kind of illustrates how fast this flash flooding is moving. And areas like Marrickville, which are close to the CBD, are experiencing evacuation warnings, which is a big thing.

HM: And CBD meaning?

RT: The city.

HM: Oh, Rafqa, it's a terrible situation. I'm glad you were able to update us about it. Thank you so much.

RT: Have a good day. Thank you.

HM: Bye-bye.

CH: Rafqa Touma is a reporter for the Guardian Australia. She's in Sydney, Australia.

[Music: Horns!!!]

Canadian Flower Proceeds Donated

CH: Some Canadians are demonstrating, pressuring public officials to take further action against Russia. Some are forming support groups for members of the Ukrainian diaspora here in Canada. And some are sending supplies. Newfoundland florist Kristýna Adamova is donating all of this week's proceeds from her bouquets sales to UNICEF Ukraine. She told the CBC what inspired her gesture.

SOUNDCLIP

KRISTÝNA ADAMOVA: Well, Czech Republic, where I'm from, Czechoslovakia, was occupied by Russia for 40 years. So, my mother, who's in her 70s, God love her, she was 18 when Prague was occupied. So, tanks were invading the city, and people were getting shot at, and really tragic, tragic, traumatizing. And so now, I feel like she's reliving it because she knows a lot of people from Ukraine who are currently experiencing this… this catastrophe. And she's the one who basically… my mom basically was the one who started to initiate, like, maybe you…. maybe you can make a bouquet that's yellow and blue. And… and it just kind of got me thinking. So it was a spontaneous idea where I had no idea how it was going to pick up. And now, we're going to throw deliveries and pickups through every day. So, I have roughly five to seven volunteers that I'm so grateful for. And I… honestly, I couldn't have done it without them. That is, Newfoundland is really a community of people who are generous. They help. They… they just… they can't just sit and watch. So for those who purchase flowers from me, and thank you so much, the full amount that I collect will be donated to Ukraine UNICEF. So, I'm specifically hoping to help children.

DARRELL ROBERTS: So how did you feel when you… when you found out that this invasion was starting? Like, what was your reaction?

KA: So first, I… I kind of buried my head in the sand. Which means I didn't really look too much. And the second day, I… I cried. I cried a lot. And then, you know, I chit-chatted with my mom, and she kept kind of bringing up this idea. And… and I just did a few posts on Instagram, like Newfoundland Flower Design is starting this beautiful raise of money for UNICEF. And I'm just blown away how it picked up. Because it's… Newfoundland is really generous. Like, people care. It's just how do you wrap your head around it? Like, one little person, how can I help? I don't… I don't know. But you guys, you can. It's… the money will really help. And, I mean, that's what we can do now. And that's what I decided to do. And again, thank you so much for the support and everything.

CH: Kristýna Adamova owns Newfoundland Floral Design in St John's. She's raised over 3,000 dollars so far, which she'll be donating to UNICEF Ukraine's Emergency Fund. She was speaking with CBC reporter Darrell Roberts.

[Music: Acoustic guitar]

London Mosaic Floor

Guest: Sophie Jackson

CH: In the photo, the old is meeting the new. The "new" is the Shard, a 72-storey skyscraper in London, England. Which towers over two very old mosaics. They're from Roman times, and they were recently uncovered in Southwark, just by the Thames. They're the largest mosaics discovered in the city in more than 50 years. Sophie Jackson is the director of fieldwork for the Museum of London Archaeology, which is overseeing the project. She's in London.

CO: Sophie, describe for us what these two mosaics look like?

SOPHIE JACKSON: Well, they… they look really good, actually. And that's what's so astonishing about them. We normally find little fragments, tiny little bits of mosaic, which have been chopped about by later buildings and basements and so on. But… but these ones are almost… well, there's a little mosaic. About a metre squared, which is… which is pretty much complete. And then there's another one, which is about three metres, three and a half metres, which… which has got a corner knocked off it. But we can see the whole design. And what they are, they’re geometric designs. So they've got… they haven't got, you know, sort of pictures of people or Roman heroes on them or anything like that, but they've got beautiful geometric patterns on them. They've got a twisted plat going around the outside. And then, stylized flowers in the inside. One of them's got lotus flowers on it. You know, sort of black triangles and just different patterns. So they're very… you know, they're symmetrical and beautifully laid out.

HM: Can you see what the original colour of them was?

SJ: Yes, yeah. Because the… the mosaic is made of little pieces of stone, tesserae. You know, the colour… you know, unlike a fresco or other sorts of artwork, the colours days. So the colours would have been black and grey, a sort of blue, yellow and a red. And, of course, white. So, they're really quite colourful.

HM: And how are they held together? Is there still any kind of mortar or anything kind of connecting the tiles?

SJ: Yes. I mean… I mean, it's… it's pretty much, as… you know, as left in some point in third century A.D. So, you know, our… our archaeologists and conservators have just been, you know, when they've been cleaning them, have been kneeling on them [chuckling] and walking on them because they're really solid floors.

HM: So what would this room have been used for 1,800 years ago?

SJ: Well, we… we're pretty sure this was a dining room. It's the right size and shape. Well, it's… it was quite a big dining room, actually. But the position of the smaller mosaic, which is, you know, doesn't mean much, but it’s to the north of the… of the larger mosaic. And how it would have worked, and this is a fairly standard thing in Roman dining rooms, is you'd have had couches, at least three couches, around the smaller mosaic sort of looking towards the bigger mosaic. And our Roman diners would have been lying. I mean, it's so bad for your digestion. [HM chuckles] But they would have been lying on their left… sort of left elbows, you know, chatting to each other. People have been bringing in lovely food for them and lots and lots of wine, probably. And no table. And then, what's going on… on the larger mosaic is… is perhaps some entertainment. You know, it's… that's where somebody might be doing a poetry reading, or they might be dancing or singing or, you know, instruments being played, just… just to entertain the diners.

HM: You've also discovered remnants of a larger building there. Do you have any idea what it would have been used for?

SJ: Um, we're still trying to find out. It's… it's like a lot of the archaeology we do in London. You know, you dig stuff up, and you get all these clues, but it's only when you… when you’ve had all the experts study them, and everything's been dated and looked at, you can… you can put it all together. But what we're pretty sure about is that there's a building just… just, as you say, just next door to this one. And it's really quite high status. It's got… it's got, you know, nice painted plaster walls. Again, quite nice floors, not a mosaic. And we think that was a, you know, a posh, rich private residence. And the building with the mosaic, we think at the moment, may be a kind of Roman hotel.

HM: So for people who aren't particular history buffs, can you explain to us what this area of London was like back when people were dining in that room?

SJ: Yes. Well, it's… it's an interesting part of London. We're in a part of London that's south of the river. It’s called Southwark And most of the Roman city… I mean, London was founded by the Romans, you know, it’s kind of a Roman city, really. And most of the area of that Roman city is in what we now call the Square Mile, the city of London, the financial district of London. We’re over the river on the south bank, and it's… it's got a sort of different vibe to it. It's… it's a bit more spacious. There's more… there's more sort of open areas. So hence we can have these quite nice big houses and this hotel. But there's also bits of industry. There were probably bits of things which weren't allowed in the city were happening in Southwark. And that's something that's carried on right the way through until the sort of 19th, you know, even the 20th century. It's got a… it's got a slightly more sort of entertainment and sort of more relaxed feel to it, really.

HM: You know, given how much development there has been in hundreds of years in that area, up until, you know, now we mentioned The Shard and buildings like that. But… but even 100, 200 years ago, is it surprising to you that this thing has been found so intact?

SJ: I mean, it's a complete miracle. I mean, I… you know, I have never… I've been working in archaeology in London, you know, 30 years or something, and I've never seen anything quite as pristine as this. And it's… it's a complete fluke. This patch of land has just remained an open space for 1,800 years, hasn't really been built on. You know, which is… which is really incredible for London. And it's probably just due to, you know, a series of medieval property boundaries. You know, it was the backyard of something, and it always remained the backyard. But, you know, this particular little patch of ground where this mosaic just happens to be. Because, I mean, it's rare to have a mosaic in Roman London anyway. I mean, they're not… every house doesn't have a mosaic, so it's a special property to have this mosaic. And to have, you know, the ground undisturbed over it is really lucky.

HM: What will happen to the mosaics now?

SJ: Well, they're going to be… our conservators are working… working on them to sort of consolidate, to make sure they're all stable. And we're going to lift them. And they will go on public display, you know, at some point, you know, later. I think there’s discussions with them about exactly where it will be, but it'll definitely go on display.

HM: Well, that sounds like such an exciting find. And I'm sure a lot of people will look forward to seeing it. Thank you so much for talking to us.

SJ: You're welcome.

HM: Bye-bye.

SJ: Bye. Bye.

CH: Sophie Jackson is the director of fieldwork for the Museum of London Archaeology. She was in London.

[Music: Folk]

LR: Carol Off is Off

CH: For weeks, we've known the big day was coming. But it still feels surreal. Tonight is the first episode of As It Happens in 16 years without Carol Off as my official co-host. We're all in a bit of a fog as we try to process this new reality now that it's finally arrived. But like you, we’ve taken comfort in last night's special send-off, and in all the kind messages that we found in our inbox this morning.

HM: Listener Mark Harding wrote: "Carol, on your last show, you [spoke] about how important the show was to the listeners, and you felt an obligation to get it right. In my life, 'As It Happens' has been a constant. I want to say thank you for all of your hard work and effort. You alluded to the troubling times that we are entering. You have seen us through many troubling times in the past, and I thank you for that. God bless and take good care!"

CH: Rebecca O'Brien in Calgary was cooking while listening to last night's show and wrote to let us know: "I'm making dinner while I listen. Chopping onions. Bawling my eyes out. It isn't the onions."

HM: Rebecca wasn't the only one who teared up. Barb Dabrowski in Waterloo, Ontario wrote: "I was fortunate to be driving home and heard the last 45 minutes of the last 'As It Happens' [episode] with Carol Off. I was moved to tears, as I suspect was the case with many of your other faithful listeners. Perhaps what we will miss the most, Carol, is your gift of connecting on such a personal, compassionate level with so many interesting and different people over the years. And somehow, that connected us, your listeners everywhere, to those people as well. Thank you for sharing that gift."

CH: And finally, some of you took to Talkback to share your thoughts on Carol's final show.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: Talkback beep]

JAMIE ST. MICHAEL: [he’s doing the theme!] Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. Hi, Carol. My name is Jamie St. Michael. I'm calling from Renfrew, Ontario, just outside of Ottawa. I wanted to call to say, I'm going to miss you. I've listened to you for a number of years, and I listened to the last show, [crying] and now, you got me crying. But I appreciate everything you've done. I think you're a wonderful person, from what I know of you. And I think you're a wonderful journalist. And you always ask great questions. So I'm going to miss that. And I hope your replacement can hold a candle to you. But they probably won't. Thank you very much. Chao for now.

CH: Thank you, Jamie. And thanks to everyone else who wrote or shared comments online about Carol's final show. If you missed it, you can find it on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih -- along with lots of other special programming celebrating Carol and her incredible career. And finally, a quick note, since some of you have already started asking. For the next few weeks, we are fortunate to have a fantastic roster of guest hosts -- like Helen -- who will be sitting in Carol's chair until we find a permanent new host.

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March 01, 2022 Episode Transcript

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