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The AIH Transcript For December 7, 2021

[hosts]Carol Off, Talia Schlanger[/hosts]

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

TALIA SCHLANGER: Good evening, I'm Talia Schlanger sitting in for Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[music: theme]

Prologue

TS: Tonight:

CO: Zooming out. After 900 employees of the U.S. company Better.com were unexpectedly terminated via Zoom call, one of them tells us it was both "callous" and "surreal".

TS: Fast and Furious. An Ontario doctor tells us rapid tests are key to keeping COVID-19 in check right now but questions why -- in his province -- they remain out of reach for many.

CO: Finish this sentence. A military court in Myanmar orders Aung San Suu Kyi back to confinement. And the UN's special rapporteur for human rights in the country says he's worried there's more trouble ahead.

TS: Sounding the alarm. A marine biologist explains how underwater recordings are picking up the cries of orcas in places they're not expected to be heard.

CO: Raves reviews. A DJ tells us about his quest to protect Berlin's techno music scene by arguing it deserves UNESCO Heritage status.

TS: And... jarring news. Amid a new round of holiday food products, we find an unlikely marriage. Leaving us to wonder how many palates chocolate orange mayonnaise will truly appeal to?

TA: As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that hopes to curb the spread.

[music: theme]

Part 1: U.S. Video Call Firing, Aung San Suu Kyi Sentence, Orca Cries Audio

U.S. Video Call Firing

Guest: Christian Chapman

TS: When nearly a thousand employees of the U.S. mortgage startup Better.com got an invitation to a Zoom meeting with their CEO, they had no idea what was coming. But it soon became clear that Vishal Garg wasn't on screen to give pre-holiday greetings, or congratulate them on a job well done. They were getting fired. Every one of them. Here is part of that Zoom call.

SOUNDCLIP

VISHAL GARG: Thank you for joining. I come to you with not great news. This isn't news that you're going to want to hear. It's been a really, really challenging decision to make. This is the second time in my career I'm doing this, and I do not, do not want to do this. The last time I did it, I cried. This time I hope to be stronger. If you're on this call, you are part of the unlucky group being laid off. Your employment here is terminated, effective immediately. I wish you all the best of luck. Thank you for everything you've done for Better.

TS: That was Better.com CEO Vishal Garg announcing via Zoom call that everyone on the call was being fired. The mortgage startup is valued at around Seven-billion dollars and had just received three-quarters of a billion dollars in investments. Christian Chapman was a mortgage underwriter and trainer with Better.com. He was on that Zoom layoff call. We reached him in Allen, Texas.

CO: Christian, can you just set the scene for us? What did you and others think was going to happen when you got the invite to that Zoom call?

CHRISTIAN CHAPMAN: Well, let me set the stage for you, Carol. I was in a training meeting with my other trainers at 10:47. And all of a sudden, we got a link for an 11:00 call. So we cancelled all the trainers, and we're asking our manager what this was? Whether we should attend? We're all laughing, getting ready for our holiday party, and jumped on the call -- Vishal's call -- and... and it was like the air was sucked out of the room.

CO: And so when you heard that, your CEO of your company, Vishal Garg, and getting right to the point, saying you... you were terminated, everyone was terminated. What was going through your head?

CC: It was… [sigh] at first, I'll be honest, Carol, it was surreal. My mind was having a hard time processing the words that were coming [chuckle] out of Vishal's mouth. And I jumped on Slack, and I'm like, I think we're getting let go! Is this happening? We had a company Slack. And before I could even process what happened, my computer went dark. And I mean, it completely just shut down -- any community, any other relationships, like everything's just gone. I look at my phone to get on my Slack to say, hey, let me get a phone number of some of my friends. Gone. It just completely shut down, and we were told we would get an email. And for three and a half excruciating hours, we didn't get anything. We were left in the dark, literally, emotionally, physically, had no access to anything. No emails, no phone numbers, no way to contact anybody. It just... it kind of took my breath away.

CO: There were others around you. All of them lost their jobs at the same time?

CC: Yeah, we did. We did. So some of the trainers that I worked with, we were senior underwriters until June. We all got promoted in June to trainers and two others. And it was... it was very surreal, very surreal.

CO: What were you all saying to each other? How was... what was the conversation at that point?

CC: Yeah. So the conversations were like, did this just happen? Did this really happen? [chuckling] We're still talking about it on Messenger. I was able to find some of them. And we were just in shock and awe. And it was... it was... it was callous. It was cold. It was premeditated. I mean, for everything just to shut down like that, it was... you know, I've been in the mortgage industry for almost 20 years. And it was... it blew me away. I have never seen a layoff handled that way. I mean, imagine this, Carol. If we jump on the phone right now and I say, Carol, you're let go effective immediately. And then this phone call ends.

CO: Good grief!

CC: We didn't know what to do. [laughing] I mean, we were just left awestruck.

CO: But this company, ironically called Better.com, was valued at seven-billion dollars at the point that you got that call. It just received a big round of investments. And so was it even in the cards? Did you even think it was possible that there were going to be a thousand people laid off at a single stroke?

CC: No, not at all, Carol. So to put it from my perspective, I'm in the top five per cent of underwriters. I get promoted to training. In October, I get a raise and told I'm doing a great job. Two weeks prior to that, I had trained 1,600 salespeople and really casting vision for the company. And then to just be dismissed, I was completely... it just hurt on the inside, I don't know how to explain it was like I got kicked in the gut, and I didn't know what to do. And I thought of my five kids and my wife. And the conversation that I needed to have with her, and how that was going to work?

CO: Can I ask what that phone call was like with your wife?

CC: Yeah. So at first, I was trying to figure out what was going on? And I wanted to tell my wife details. [chuckling] My wife is into details, [chuckling] and she should be. And we weren't getting anything. The email that they promised that would tell us what was happening didn't come for almost four hours. So at the two-hour mark, I hadn't received anything. I reached out, hadn't received anything. And I drove to a Starbucks, and I got on the outside of there, and I called my wife. And she works for a non-profit part time. And I said, you know, Tiff, I need to talk to you. It's kind of serious. Do you have a minute? And she's like, OK, let me get inside. And so I said, we're going to be OK. It's going to be fine, but I need to let you know that I was laid off, terminated effective immediately. And I know that we've got a vacation planned at the end of Christmas, [chuckle] and our kids are in private school, and they range from five to 14. And, you know, we know that, you know, Christmas is going to be rough. And so it's trying to make lemonade out of lemons. And stay positive, even though it's... it's a dire situation. And the tone got solemn for a few minutes. And we agreed that we'd pull through this together. That we weren't going to tell our kids right away. You know, we kind of just sat in the moment. And we're still processing through it, Carol. Like, I don't know exactly what the future holds, and so we're still processing that.

CO: When you hear, again, that phone call, we just played for our listeners. And you hear Vishal Garg say to you, the CEO say, that last time he did this, he cried. What did you think of that?

CC: To be transparent, it meant nothing to me because he followed up with it of I'm not going at this time, and it was real cold, callous and shut off. You know, it was very Trumpist, I guess you would say? It was very... it was cold. It was very impersonal.

CO: Do you think your life might be better after Better?

CC: [laughing] You know, I've been thinking of Better puns all day long. [both laugh] Because, I mean, how can you not? How can you not think of Better puns? And I think my life will be better. I think, you know, maybe I should have chose Best.com, not Better.com? [Both chuckle] But I do think it's going to be better.

CO: Well, Christian, all we can offer is that we'll try and come up with some good, Better puns for you.

CC: Hey, I love that! You should. You should have a whole episode on nothing but Better puns.

CO: We could probably manage that on this show. And I hope despite all of this, that you have a good Christmas.

CC: Well, I really appreciate that, Carol. And you as well, and to your listeners as well. I hope that they have a wonderful Christmas and have the opportunity to give more than they get.

CO: All right. Thank you. Bye-bye.

CC: Bye-bye.

TS: Christian Chapman is a former mortgage underwriter and trainer with Better.com. He was one of 900 employees who got fired via Zoom call. We reached him in Allen, Texas. You can find more on this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Funky groove beat]

Aung San Suu Kyi Sentence

Guest: Tom Andrews

TS: Aung San Suu Kyi is once again serving time. A military court in Myanmar has sentenced the deposed leader to two years in prison. For inciting alarm and for violating COVID-19 rules. This is the first of a dozen cases that the country's generals have brought against Aung San Suu Kyi since February when they detained her and squeezed her party out of power in a coup. The move has prompted calls for violent opposition from Myanmar's government in exile. Tom Andrews, the former Maine congressman who now serves as the United Nations' Special Rapporteur for human rights in Myanmar, has described the sentencing as, quote, "theatre of the absurd." We reached Mr. Andrews in Fairfax, Virginia.

CO: Mr Andrews, you've called the sentencing of Aung San Suu Kyi "theatre of the absurd". What do you mean by that?

TOM ANDREWS: Well, this should not be confused, Carol, with an actual trial. That is to say, a trial is if you had fairness, transparency. You have here trumped-up charges, starting with the absurd charge that the president of the country and the State Council, Aung San Suu Kyi, were guilty of being in possession of illegal walkie-talkies. And from that point forward, it's been this series of equally bizarre charges that basically allows the military junta to keep Aung San Suu Kyi, the president of the country, and literally thousands and thousands of others under lock and key.

CO: If someone of the stature of Aung San Suu Kyi is receiving sentences like this. And we know this is... the sentence has been reduced to two years of prison time. But there are so many other charges still pending that will possibly keep her in jail for a very, very long time. If that's the case for her, what does that say to the thousands of others who are in Myanmar's prisons right now for protesting against this government?

TA: Well, just imagine, just imagine. We have evidence that people have been systematically tortured in prison. We have evidence of children being tortured. There is evidence of people being tortured to death in prison. And we know that you don't have to even be protesting, Carol. You could be a journalist. There is a health care crisis in Myanmar. But despite that, health care workers, doctors, nurses, ambulance personnel are being harassed, arrested and tortured. So just imagine, if Aung San Suu Kyi and Win Myint, the president of the country, if they're being a subject to what they're being subject to, just imagine what it's like for the everyday person who was picked up for speaking the truth.

CO: Aung San Suu Kyi spent decades under house arrest before she was released, and then we saw Myanmar have this very brief experiment with democracy and civilian government. What is the message do you believe the military rulers are sending about that nascent democracy movement with these charges and these sentences?

TA: Well, you know, I'll be honest with you, Carol. [chuckle] Right up until even a few days before the... the actual coup, I was asked, well, do you think that there may be a coup? There's... there's some signals that there may be something afoot. [laughing] And I assured the person I was talking to, no, no. They're not going to have a coup. I mean, listen, they... they have almost complete control of the country. Civilian government has very limited power. They have veto power over whatever the parliament does. They're accountable to no one. Well, obviously for them, it wasn't enough. But the fact that we had reforms at all didn't occur because the leader of the military, the leader of the junta, decided one morning that maybe we should be respecting human rights. It was done precisely because of international pressure, including economic sanctions. And I believe that provides for us a key to what it is that we as an international community are going to need to do.

CO: Have you noted that there is any diminishment of that international support for Aung San Suu Kyi? And this is a woman who won the Nobel Peace Prize. She was regarded as a champion of democracy. And yet, we saw when she was in government that she refused to criticize the army and its campaign of genocide against Rohingya. And defended the very military that's now imprisoned her when she went to The Hague. So has that diminished the support there is for her and her cause?

TA: It's a very interesting question, Carol. And I think what's happened is the people have refocused from one individual to an entire nation. You have to be in awe of the people who are sacrificing everything, just exhibiting enormous courage and tenacity and creativity to try to save their country. And this is largely young people from all walks of life, from every single corner of Myanmar, coming out and standing up for fundamental rights and a future for their... for their country.

CO: And there are those within that shadow government, as it's called, within that opposition, that is, as you describe, who are saying that they have moved beyond Aung San Suu Kyi. That they have moved to a place where they believe is more representative of the ethnic groups in Myanmar. And that they are going to continue. But how much support do they actually have from, let's say, the United States and other players in this?

TA: Well, not enough, to be honest with you. First of all, this government has the overwhelming support of the people of Myanmar. And that's, of course, what is most important to them. They need to mobilize and generate the support of the international community. Because despite the efforts of the people of Myanmar to fight back against this military... and by the way, there is a civil disobedience movement nationwide that is very, very robust. And what is needed and what they're asking us, what they're begging us for as an international community is support, to share in that burden, to stand up to the junta, establish sanctions, strong, targeted economic sanctions, an arms embargo. And also, to deny the junta legitimacy and to support and recognize and to work with the national unity government, the opposition national unity government.

CO: Do you worry, though, that that national unity government that the movement may and is already going beyond civil disobedience and into armed conflict, armed opposition to the military, which is far able to outgun them? Do you worry that that's where this is going?

TA: I am worried. I am worried, Carol. Because you know you're exactly right. We're talking about one of the largest militaries in the region, almost the world, over 400,000 troops. And they have shown no hesitation whatsoever to use overwhelming force against any opposition.

CO: Mr. Andrews, we'll have to leave it there, but we will be following this story closely. And I appreciate speaking with you tonight. Thank you.

TA: It's my pleasure. Thank you, Carol.

TS: Tom Andrews is the UN Special Rapporteur for human rights in Myanmar. He was in Fairfax, Virginia.

[Music: Ambient]

Orca Cries Audio

Guest: Brynn Kimber

TS: For Brynn Kimber, this sound is easily recognizable.

SOUNDCLIP

[Sound: A whale call]

[/sc]

TS: That's an orca or killer whale. And in recent years, Brynn Kimber has been noticing that sound in unexpected places. This month, at the annual meeting of the Acoustical Society of America, they presented research on how melting ice in the Arctic is changing the habits of orcas -- and how it could affect other creatures. Brynn Kimber is a marine mammal biologist and research scientist at the University of Washington. We reached them in Seattle.

CO: Brynn, what a haunting sound that is. A bit like a bunch of puppies [laughing] or some... some sort of dog pack out there. What can you tell us about what we've just heard?

BRYNN KIMBER: Yeah, they don't necessarily sound how you might think the majestic killer whale would sound, but those are transient killer whale calls. So those are the calls that oftentimes are heard immediately after or around the time when a killer whale is hunting, has made a kill, and they're kind of discussing potentially how to divvy up that kill. That's one of the theories of why they're making those sounds, at least.

CO: What did you think when you heard that this sound and knowing that the orcas were so active under those waters?

BK: Well, when I first heard them sort of up north, I was quite surprised. I thought maybe this was a really strange beluga sound. But then, as I, you know, listened more closely, we had more consistent sounds. I was like, OK, no, those are definitely killer whales. So, yeah, when I heard them so far up north, it definitely took me off guard a little bit.

CO: What does it tell you? What... maybe just give us a sense of what you... what you're starting to understand about what's changing for these species like orcas in the Arctic waters?

BK: You know, there have been records both through traditional knowledge and through Western science that have... have seen killer whales in these areas periodically, but not consistently. So when we're talking about the Arctic and some of our really far northern recordings especially, we really didn't expect to see them around here. Now, what we're seeing is we are seeing killer whales pushing into the Arctic through the Bering Strait earlier than they were previously. The study goes over the course of 2012 to 2019. And through the course of the study, we're seeing killer whales going through this Bering Strait region, which may act as kind of a choke point, a bottleneck of sorts, to the killer whales. And so, we're seeing them pushing through that earlier in relationship to declining sea ice. And we're also getting detections of them further north than we would have expected to see them. Combined with the research of other scientists, we can kind of get a picture that they are moving more into the Arctic, both the Alaskan Arctic, which is where our research is focussed. But there's also a lot of really great research looking into the Hudson Bay area of Canada and how killer whales have become more and more present in that area over the years.

CO: We know what's changing. We know that there's about 75 per cent of the ice volume has disappeared in the last dozen years or so. And so, what is it about the environment, the changes in the environment, that make it more habitable for the orcas?

BK: Orcas, they have a dorsal fin, which a lot of the resident species of the Arctic will not have. So bowhead whales and beluga whales, they've evolved to not have that. And the reason why that's important is because they're mammals; they need to breathe. And so they need to break through ice. Ice can move in really fast, and you can get trapped quite easily. And so, a lot of Arctic mammals have adapted to be able to break through the ice. But killer whales, with their dorsal fin, they can't do that kind of same motion where they slam up against the ice. So they can get trapped and can suffocate more easily than the Arctic species can. So that's why they tend to avoid ice, we think.

CO: And now that there's no ice, it's a great place for them to live?

BK: Yeah, they can go in and hunt the species that is used to having protection from them, and they can do it without as much fear of ice entrapment.

CO: These are... orcas are very, very effective predators, aren't they? And so, how is it changing? What are they eating? What's... what's... what's become a food source in the north that is now changing the environment?

BK: Yeah. So that's one of the big questions, and I've been looking into it, and again, combined with the research of other data. So there's another researcher in our lab, Amy Willoughby, who has done a great paper looking at the scarring on bowhead whales from killer whales. And so, with that kind of research in mind, I looked at bowhead whales in particular, and noticed that there was an increased overlap in killer whale detections with bowhead detections as killer whales are moving into the Arctic. Because our team also looks for bowhead whales. So that opposed to some of the species that they are recorded to eat more consistently, like grey whales. In these more northern areas, there's not a consistent overlap with grey whales. So we think that they might be sort of branching out from their expected diet and eating new things.

CO: OK, so it's become a great feeding ground for orcas, but it's not a great place for these other animals who have been using the ice as... as cover?

BK: Yes, there's some really great research by a Canadian scientist. They published a paper -- Matthews, et-all. They looked at how bowhead whales respond to a killer whale presence and found that bowhead whales will go and hide in the ice if they detect a killer whale nearby. This is an interesting behaviour that normally would probably be quite effective for them. But the problem is if there's more killer whales, they're going to be spending more time hiding in that ice. And, of course, then they're missing out on potential fishing opportunities and potential just general low-stress environment signals. And so they could definitely be impacted in ways outside of direct predation if they're sort of spending all their time hiding away from these killer whales.

CO: Well, Brynn, good luck with your research. We need to know all of this is as depressing as much of it is, but thank you for telling us about it.

BK: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. It's lovely to talk to you.

CO: Bye-bye.

TS: Brynn Kimber is a marine mammal biologist who works with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Marine Mammal Laboratory. Earlier this month, they presented research on changing orca habits. The paper is not yet published in a journal.

[Music: Horns!!!]

Chocolate Orange Mayo

TS: Some combinations are a great idea.

SOUNDCLIP

MAN: Hey!

WOMAN: [yelps] You put you can your chocolate in my peanut butter!

MAN: You got peanut butter in my chocolate!

BOTH: What?! Delicious!

ANNOUNCER: Two great tastes taste great together. Reese's peanut butter cups.

[fades]

TS: I mean, sure, it's hard to imagine anyone would walk down a busy sidewalk eating peanut butter out of a big tub -- or that you’d continue eating after a stranger’s chocolate bar somehow plunged into it. Reality aside: Chocolate plus peanut butter, solid idea. Chocolate plus mayonnaise however -- much less solid. And yet, Terry’s -- the company that already sells chocolate disguised as an orange -- has partnered with Heinz to create a limited-edition mayonnaise disguised as a dessert. The revolting... sorry I mean, resulting "chocolate-orange mayonnaise" is billed as a 'world-first festive mash-up you didn’t know you needed' -- to which I might add, because you absolutely do not need it. According to a Heinz spokesperson: "Translation
transcribed audio contenthis year we set out to create the most Christmassy Mayo that we could think of." The drive for Christmassy-ness does seem to be on trend with a surge of 'Christmas dinner' flavoured products from pizza to potato chips. That's right -- Christmas dinner is now a flavour -- a flavour in a Christmas dinner soup that one reviewer called "the precise opposite of Christmas." Also made by Heinz. Perhaps what that soup really needed was a garnish of drizzled chocolate-orange mayo on top?

[Music: Elevator]

Part 2: More Rapid Tests Needed, Berlin Techno UN Status

More Rapid Tests Needed

Guest: Dr. Naheed Dosani

TS: With the holidays just weeks away, many Canadians are having doubts about just how safe their gatherings will be. And as families make those decisions, how easy it is to get hold of rapid COVID tests may be part of their thinking. In Ontario, some experts are asking why those tests aren't more accessible? That question came up at a press conference today with the province's chief medical officer. Here's CityTV reporter Cynthia Mulligan.

SOUNDCLIP

CYNTHIA MULLIGAN: What about rapid tests? One epidemiologist yesterday told me that they're being handed out like condoms in a safe-sex campaign in Nova Scotia. Why aren't we doing something like that here?

KIERAN MOORE: We do have a very robust testing strategy in Ontario for the winter months. As... as we've released previously, we've purchased a separate order of 11 million rapid antigen tests for all students in Ontario. So high school and elementary. That's five tests each throughout the winter holidays. We also have a testing blitz that will be starting in the coming weeks. That will go to high-risk areas where people who are vaccinated and unvaccinated are mixing, like malls. And provide rapid tests in those situations. We're also working together with our federal partners to broaden the testing strategy and will have more news on increased availability of them soon.

TS: That was Ontario's Chief Medical Officer Dr. Kieran Moore at a press conference in Toronto earlier today. Dr. Naheed Dosani is one of the many doctors in Ontario calling for rapid antigen tests to be more widely available. We've reached him in Toronto.

CO: Dr. Dosani, right now, how hard is it to get a rapid test in Ontario?

DR. NAHEED DOSANI: Yeah. So in Ontario, the vast majority of access around rapid tests is focussed on just small businesses. And unfortunately, this means that rapid tests are not accessible to everyone. And a significant part of the reason why rapid tests are so important is because we know that many of the cases are in asymptomatic people with COVID. So people who don't have symptoms -- about 30 to 40 per cent of adults, around 50 per cent of children are asymptomatic. So, you know, this is a very powerful tool that really should be accessible to more people in our community. You can buy a rapid test for $40, for example, at a place like Shoppers Drug Mart. But for many people, that's far too expensive. We know that in other jurisdictions like Nova Scotia, for example. In New Brunswick, they're handing these rapid tests out to people to keep people safe. We know internationally in the United Kingdom they're handing them out to the entire population. In Germany, you can get rapid tests at the grocery store for one euro. So, you know, in Singapore, they're giving them out in vending machines for free. So here in Ontario, they just need to be much more accessible.

CO: Now, the... the provinces like Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Saskatchewan in that clip, but [chuckle] had said that they're handing them out like condoms in Nova Scotia. They are saying, though, they're... they're handing them out while availability lasts. And so, are there enough for the people who need them?

DND: That's a great question. I think we really have to, you know, apply them at a population level to really understand their power. They're a great public health surveillance tool. I mean, even if we could just give people the opportunity to test themselves at home, you know, even twice a week or even more frequently, it could really make a huge difference, especially as we go into the winter, especially as people are more indoors, hanging out over the holidays. We need to get people, you know, every tool in the toolbox to make sure that people are actually staying safe. I think that, you know, when you apply it in a population level, why would we not want to use every tool that we have? In addition to, of course, vaccinations, boosters, vaccinating children five to 11, you know, including... you know, improving ventilated spaces because COVID is airborne and using masks.

CO: the government websites, Ontario government websites, refer to that they are making…. they will make... give access to publicly-funded testing, quote, for those who need it. Isn't that key, though? I mean, if we hand out the tests to everyone who wants them, whatever numbers, will we have the tests available when we need them? When we need to test people in a more focused way? To test, as the government is saying, to go to places and hotspots, and be able to... is it possible that we won't have the tests when they're needed specifically for a hotspot or for... for a particular group?

DND: You know, I think that's certainly something we have to think about. But in the spirit of our response to COVID, you know, often our response has been a reactive one. And I think what people are trying to say is that we're trying to be proactive with Omicron variant here. With, you know, 1,800 active cases in schools. With our health care system under stress. You know, cases on the rise. ICU-admitted patients in the ICU at the highest level over the last two months and rising. You know, people are just trying to say that, you know, we need a tool to be able to confirm that people are safe. At the end of the day, this type of, you know, surveillance rapid testing actually has the opportunity to be convenient, cost-effective and can keep COVID-19 out of schools. It gets to break that chain of transmission. So the downstream, you know, benefits are actually potentially so great on, you know, human lives, but also on costs as well.

CO: The rapid antigen test, though, isn't the gold standard for detecting COVID, is it? And so, there... there are... especially of concern are the numbers of false negatives that come from those tests. So is that really the answer right now to have those tests?

DND: I think it's one part of a larger set of answers. So absolutely, you know, 91 per cent of the time, rapid antigen tests are negative to catch a COVID case if the person is not yet showing symptoms. So to be clear, if one is symptomatic, they should be getting a PCR test, perhaps at a testing centre. But if someone is not symptomatic and tests positive with a rapid antigen test, that allows them to be alerted so that they can actually get a PCR test and then break that chain of transmission. So it's not the gold standard of testing, but it can be used in a suite of approaches that can actually prevent the spread of COVID-19.

CO: The Ontario government has announced it's going to provide 11 million rapid antigen tests to kids -- to students -- while they go on their winter break in December. And so, they'll have tests for... five... five tests each for that period of 10 days. So, why isn't that enough? We're getting the kids tested, at least we know they're not picking up things and spreading it around.

DND: You know, I think that's a really great step in the right direction, and I certainly applaud our provincial government for committing to send the five rapid test home. You know, but it's just a step in the right direction to a population-based approach that really allows us to really plan for the holidays and beyond. The reality is that this is a specific, focused campaign at one period of time. We... Omicron is here. We don't fully know the impacts of Omicron on adults, let alone children, and how that will affect transmission. So I think that's why we're calling for a population-based approach around rapid antigen testing.

CO: And just finally, do we know if the rapid antigen test can detect the Omicron variant?

DND: My understanding is at this point, that's not known and to this level. And so, you know, it's too early to tell. More… more data is needed to understand that.

CO: All right. We'll leave it there. Dr. Dosani, thank you.

DND: Thank you.

TS: That was palliative care physician Dr. Naheed Dosani. In a statement from Ontario's Ministry of Health, a spokesperson told us the province has distributed more than 33 million rapid antigen tests. As It Happens asked the province to confirm how many of tests remain in their inventory from the federal government. We did not receive a response before air.

[Music: Ambient]

Canadian COVID Vaccine

TS: Canada's first home-grown COVID vaccine could soon be approved for use -- and it's got a green twist. British-American company GlaxoSmithKline and Quebec's Medicago collaborated on the vaccine. It has shown "high efficacy" against infection in a recent round of trials. If the new vaccine is greenlit, the companies say it will be the first plant-based vaccine approved for use in humans in the world. So what does that mean? Here's Nicolas Petit -- a vice president with Medicago.

SOUNDCLIP

NICOLAS PETIT: If approved, that would be the first plant based vaccines for human use. In simple terms, you know, we are using the plants as mini bioreactor to produce our vaccine. We introduce a sequence of interests into the plants via a bacterium, and the plants will think that it's in its own material, and will start to produce the protein of interest. Once it's produced, we will, you know, harvest the plants. And this protein of interest will be the antigen, which will allow your body to recognize the virus if infected and block it and protect from the disease.

ALISON BRUNETTE: And how soon after you submit to Health Canada are you expecting to get a response? How long do these things usually take?

NP: Difficult to say. It will depend of, you know, the need of the government. You see, a lot is changing week after week lately with Omnicron. So we'll see depending on the demand of Canada.

AB: And once it is approved, how soon could your vaccine be ready for distribution?

NP: We... we are already producing right now, so we'll be ready to ship once approved.

TS: Nicolas Petit is with drug company Medicago. He spoke with Alison Brunette at CBC Quebec. If Health Canada gives the new home-grown vaccine the go-ahead, it would be the fifth COVID shot approved for use in Canada.

[Music: Techno]

Berlin Techno UN Status

Guest: Alan Oldham

TS: Techno is the hard-edged electronic music that came out of Detroit and found a second home in Berlin, where it has thrived since the '90s. But it may now be on its way to joining the likes of Ukrainian painted ceramics, Turkish archery, and the Peking Opera... with its status recognized by the United Nations. Alan Oldham is a DJ and musician working with the non-profit group Rave The Planet to push for UNESCO Intangible Heritage Status -- for Berlin's techno music scene. We reached him in Berlin.

CO: Alan, why do you think that Berlin's techno scene needs protection? What's... what's threatening it?

ALAN OLDHAM: Well, right now, it's kind of a one-two punch of COVID and gentrification. And the scene does need protection, government protection. And part of this UNESCO initiative is trying to get UNESCO and, I guess, government, in general, to recognize this as a historic and cultural institution that's worthy of protection. Here in Berlin specifically, techno is... is part of the... the whole fall of the wall. You know, it was the youth music after the wall fell and after unification of East and West Germany. It was kind of the... the punk rock of the time here -- electronic music. Tresor, the club was the main club that was open at the fall of the wall, that introduced Detroit techno to Germany. In that regard, I feel that it's... it's a part of history that... that needs to be acknowledged and protected.

CO: We just heard a little bit of it in our introduction, so people maybe heard that for the first time or were reminded of what you're talking about. In Berlin, where have people gone in order to hear it?

AO: Well, Berlin is known as the as the club capital of the world. And this is the... the place where the top DJs play, the top electronic music acts and the biggest clubs. the biggest clubs here in Berlin are Berghain, Tresor, Watergate, Suicide Circus, Sisyphus. I mean, there... there are many. I mean, there were more than that, but gentrification has taken care of a lot of these legendary venues.

CO: But many of them have already been lost in the past decade. So do you think that if the techno scene could get this UNESCO's status, that they would stop closing?

AO: You know, that's... that's the hope. I mean, that's the hope. I mean, obviously, you know, market forces being what they are, property changes hands. But it would be protection against that.

CO: Just give us a bit more understanding as to what the music stands for. I mean, you're not from Berlin. You're not German. You're from the United States. And so, what have you come to understand as to what the music stands for in Berlin?

AO: Well, the music stands for, basically, creativity and freedom, which is what Berlin basically stands for. It's the signature of the city. I often said that techno has no lyrics. So, it is international. And the listener can take whatever he or she wants from the music. It's... it's more than just a club music, and it's... it's more than just that context.

CO: What sets us apart? Why is the Berlin techno different in any way that would maybe command this kind of status from UNESCO?

AO: Berliners have a different brand of the techno that they make as opposed to the Detroit or New York, or Chicago electronic music. But the thing of it is... is that the music here in Berlin is the industry. And, you know, many people are employed by this industry. And this is another reason why we’re seeking protection for this. This is the... Berlin is the kind of the... I don't want to say business, but it's the business capital of electronic music. This is where the software companies are. This is where Resident Advisor, which is the… like a big blog that tells you about new releases. This is where booking agents are. The clubs, obviously. And there's a whole infrastructure and industry here, and people are employed by this, in my opinion.

CO: And what are the characteristics? I mean, aside from the politics, the history, what... what... tell us, describe if you can, what the music is? What it's made of as a sound?

AO: Well, the music is generally created electronically with drum machines and synthesizers. Some people create with software, which is completely inside of the computer. Other people have actual hardware studios, which is made of modules, boxes. Each box kind of generates its own sound. There are different ways to make this kind of music. But it's... a lot of it is straightforward dance music. Other people make kind of a jazzy or ambient style. Other people make it like complete... I don't know... art installation-type music, which is ambient. It could…. it can be anything, really.

CO: You just described a moment ago that the business. It’s an industry in Berlin. The discos and the clubs are commercial venues. So why do you think this should be regarded as... as a cultural phenomenon and not as a business one?

AO: Well, because the art and the creativity that comes from this place is beamed everywhere. And the... the influence and the culture goes with it. So many people come to Berlin, and they’re attracted by this. And also, if this initiative is successful here, it could be exported to other cities as well, which is the hope.

CO: The whole idea of where it originates, the history is that it's was an underground... it’s a subculture, right? And so isn't it a bit of a contradiction to ask that UNESCO give it this intangible heritage status? I mean, you don't get more established than UNESCO, right? [chuckle] I mean, isn't that a bit of a contradiction?

AO: Well, not... not at all. Status was... was granted to reggae music, for example.

CO: It was also given to of Slovakian bagpipe culture. So I mean, it is a range.

AO: Absolutely. So why not... why not techno music?

CO: You got your work cut out for you, don't you?

AO: [chuckle] I sure do.

CO: Alan, it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

AO: Thank you so much.

CH: DJ and musician Alan Oldham is a DJ is a spokesperson for the non-profit group Rave The Planet. We reached him in Berlin.

[Music: Techno]

Floppy The Sign

TS: Trying to figure out what will get millions of views on Tiktok is futile. But Chloe Chapdelaine's story of creativity and ambition apparently fit the bill. In her video, Ms Chapdelaine explained how the moose in the moose crossing sign she often passed looked -- in her words -- "floppy." So she took it upon herself to design a new one. And others clearly agreed that the moose needed a makeover. Because now it's featured in a government road sign guide and making its way onto real-life signage. Here's Ms. Chapdelaine this morning.

SOUNDCLIP

CHLOE CHAPDELAINE: No hate to the original designer, of course. But it's not exactly how I would design the original moose crossing sign. It's not very tall. It's a little floppy, I guess you could say. [both laugh] It's got lots of characteristics to me that just don't quite match a moose. [DG chuckles] So that's how I would describe it.

DAVID GRAY: OK, so... and how did you become maybe obsessed is the wrong term, but you let me know? How did you become obsessed with the idea of... of changing the moose sign?

CC: Well, you know, I wouldn't say obsessed, but it did come out of boredom.

DG: [chuckles] OK.

CC: So I was working in a little small farm town, and I was living by myself in a trailer. And in my trailer, I didn't have Wi-Fi. I didn't have a TV. And I was looking for ways to keep myself entertained really after work. And so I would... when I would drive to work, it's across the prairies. You don't really have much to look at. But there was a moose crossing sign that was just off the turn of when I would leave for work. And so, I would see this moose crossing sign all the time and just think about how maybe it's not quite how I would want it to look. So I brought it up with my co-workers at my summer job when I was 18 years old. [chuckling] And I said, what do you guys think? And they agreed that it wasn't quite, you know, what they imagined of what a moose crossing sign should look like. So I was wanting to be a graphic designer. I was taking visual communications at the Medicine Hat College. And so I was like, you know what? I'm just going to tackle this after work and, just like, redesign it myself to see how I would make it. And so I took my Sharpie, and I sat down, and I drew out a brand new moose, and I ended up mailing letters to as many different departments of the government and transportation as I could, just like hoping to hear back. And, I mean, a few years later, today, this new design will be moving forward.

DG: Does your moose have a different attitude than the traditional moose sign?

CC: I would say so. I tried to make my moose feel a little bit more majestic. [both chuckle] Like, it's standing a little bit more proud. It's taller. And aside from the anatomical differences that I made sure to include, I feel like it's just overall like a happier-looking moose.

TS: That was moose sign creator, Chloe Chapdelaine, speaking with CBC Calgary Eyeopener host David Gray today.

[Music: Ambient]

Part 3: New Ransomware Arrests, Garbage Patch Wildlife

FOA: AFN Vatican Visit

TS: Phil Fontaine is going to have to wait a little longer for his sit-down with the Pope. Last night on the program, the former national chief of the Assembly of First Nations told us how he and a group of other First Nations, Metis and Inuit delegates were heading to the Vatican later this month. That meeting has now been postponed until 2022, because of the Omicron variant. A joint statement reads in part: "The decision to postpone was a heartbreaking one... for many elderly delegates as well as those who live in remote communities, the risk of infection and the fluid nature of the evolving global situation presents too great a threat at this time." Last night, Mr Fontaine told guest host Nil Koksal why he was hopeful about his second meeting with a pope.

SOUNDCLIP

PHIL FONTAINE: I believe there is a lot of pressure on the Catholic Church entities here through the... through the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops, urging the Pope to... to apologize. And the commitment that has been made as far as I'm concerned.

NK: I sense hope in your voice. Is that fair to say?

PF: Yes, I'm really quite hopeful. It would... I mean, I wasn't disappointed that we didn't get a full apology in 2009. But as I've just said, I think the circumstances are so much different. And there is such high expectations that the Pope will apologize and follow through with his commitment to come to Canada and deliver the apology on our lands.

NK: In your 2009 meeting with Pope Benedict, he expressed, quote, personal anguish over residential schools and what happened at them. Why is "I'm sorry", so much more powerful than personal anguish?

PF: Well, verse and language is what it is. It's something that's really personal. An apology is as much more broadly based. And in this case, an apology would be to the survivors and our people generally. And so there is a real big difference. And... but in both cases, I mean, you... one decides whether to accept the apology or not and then carry on. But in our view, and there have been very strong arguments made over some considerable period of time, to have an apology. An apology is necessary so that we can begin the... the... the important work of reconciliation. And this is a matter that affects not just the survivors of the residential school experience but all Canadians because reconciliation impacts the entire country, all Canadians.

TS: That was former AFN chief Phil Fontaine speaking on As It Happens last night. Today, the meeting between Indigenous delegates and the Pope was postponed until the earliest opportunity in 2022, due to the uncertainty around the Omicron variant

[Music: Lullaby]

New Ransomware Arrests

Guest: David Shipley

TS: Virtual crimes have caught up to an Ottawa man in real life. The OPP, RCMP and the FBI announced today charges against Matthew Philbert -- after an international investigation into ransomware attacks that hit businesses, individuals and government agencies. Police aren't yet saying who was targeted by the ransomware, but knowing how many ransomware disruptions there have been in recent years, there are lots of possible victims. David Shipley is CEO of Beauceron Security. We reached him in Fredericton, New Brunswick.

CO: David, what does this arrest tell you about how seriously Canadian and American authorities are taking these ransomware attacks?

DAVID SHIPLEY: Well, I certainly see an uptick in law enforcement activity going after the low-hanging fruit, the people they can actually get an arrest. And this is the second major bust of a Canadian involved in ransomware attacks. So, it's... it's awesome to see. It's exciting. But this isn't the takedown of a major ransomware gang. This is a takedown of one of their many fall guys.

CO: OK, but what do you mean by that? Who is Matthew Philbert, and how does he... this is the man who has the charges against him, but not yet proven in court. But what role does he seem to have played in this? Is it… is he part of a possibly part of a larger international gang?

DS: Well, that would be the most logical explanation. When you look at the amount of skills required to create, maintain and sustain the information technology infrastructure to commit modern-day ransomware. It's a multi-person effort. It's usually quite an organized, sophisticated effort. And what we have seen in the industry is there's typically a ransomware gang that is the developer of the software and tools, and those tools are then used by what are known as affiliates to actually specifically target individual organizations. And the affiliate takes a cut of whatever ransomware... ransom or extortion is given, and the gang takes a large percentage of this.

CO: And the FBI spokesperson in today's press conference said that the charges, at least in part, relate to a government ransomware attack in Alaska in 2018. Do you know anything more about it than that?

DS: So it is an interesting attack. So in 2018, particularly in the timeline related to this particular set of allegations, in the U.S. press release about the… the allegations against the individual out of Ottawa, they suggest that the person gained access to an Alaskan state local computer around April 2018. Now, the attack that happened in July 2018, which can be traced back to someone gaining access in the exact same timeframe, happened to an Alaskan community, a remote Alaskan community. And I apologize if I don't pronounce it correctly, but it's... it's known locally as Mat-Su. And it crippled hundreds of computers, put them back to typewriters and cost them more than $2.5 million. And what's interesting is the reporting at the time that attributed that ransomware attack tied that ransomware to a gang primarily out of Russia, known as Evil Corp.

CO: Wow! And so... and this one, the Canadian side of it, do you know anything about what the... the attack, the victim, the target of that was?

DS: No, we... we don't know yet what... who or how many Canadian victims may have been tied up into this. Although, now that we know... and again, I'm making a series of assumptions here based on the timelines police have provided because they... they haven't drawn that clear line. So if I'm right that this individual was attacking this community at that time frame and it was this kind of ransomware, then we can look back and see Canadian attacks that were involving the ransomware or other attacks by Evil Corp. And perhaps that may be a clue as to what Canadian attacks may have also been involved.

CO: It's actually called Evil Corp?

DS: It's actually called Evil Corp. [CO chuckles] And they are a longstanding Russian-based gang. We actually know who the leader of this gang is. The British National Criminal Agency actually published a picture of the leader in his very fancy Lamborghini. They have made a lot of money.

CO: These are like stereotypes from movies.

DS: These are absolutely stereo... when you read about some of the individuals in Russia alleged to be attached to the largest ransomware gangs, they lead... they live lives that seem like bond villains. And they are relatively easy to discover. The BBC did a great story looking at some of these gang heads and who was alleged to be involved, particularly with Evil Corp. You know, we know who these players are, but we also know they're untouchable for the time being, as long as they stay in Russia or in that sphere of folks who won't extradite you to the United States.

CO: They can still attract these small fish who might work out of Ottawa or Gatineau because the money is big, right? If you can make $50 million doing this, is that... is... are they still going to have no difficulty recruiting someone to replace those who get arrested?

DS: Exactly! So, and that's what may be interesting to see what plays out of the effect of these arrests is the supply of affiliates willing to engage in this activity dry up in North America because they realize it's a stupid bad idea to... to hack? Maybe, but maybe they stick around in Canada, and they target Brazil. They target other countries that aren't necessarily going to have the police response and bring on the heat.

CO: And cutting the money supply off is very difficult. We were covering the story of Newfoundland and Labrador and what happened to their health care system, attacked… it had a ransomware attack. This is very sensitive data that they're able to get. It's extremely tempting to pay off the ransom, as many organizations, we understand, do. So, can you see any time in the future when they're not going to find this is a profitable form of crime?

DS: [sigh] Oh, I wish I could say yes in the short term, but they have made a hell of a lot of money this year. And we're talking hundreds of millions of dollars. They hit the world's largest... the United States largest provider of cyber insurance, and they got them to pay them $40 million. So that's one victim paying them one amount. So the money is too good for them to stop. And realistically, until we... until we take a hard look at cryptocurrency and how that money facilitates that... that digital currency facilitates the payment of these things, nothing's going to stop. Until we look at these jurisdictions that tacitly sanction or at least turn a blind eye to the criminal groups operating their borders building this kind of an enterprise, nothing's going to stop. And even, you know, a massive surge in investment in defensive technologies is still only going to put a dent. It's not going to stop the wave that we're... that we're going through. And I'm not convinced we're going to see the kind of investment to even deal with the problem we have today, let alone what's coming next.

CO: Yikes! OK, David, thank you… I think [chuckling].

DS: You're very welcome. Stay safe.

CO: Bye-bye.

DS: Bye-bye.

TS: David Shipley is CEO of Beauceron Security. We reached him in Fredericton, New Brunswick.

[Music: Electronic]

P.E.I Potato Protest

TS: If P.E.I farmers can't export the island's signature tuber to the United States, they'll send a load of spuds to our Capital instead. Six-thousand ten pound bags are expected to arrive tomorrow -- to signal displeasure with the U.S. blockage. The U.S. banned imports from PEI after potato wart was found at a pair of island farms. P.E.I. farmers say the risk is contained, and they're fed up. So their potato protest is to grab the attention of politicians in Ottawa. Farmer Chad Robertson and Greg Donald, of the P.E.I Potato Board, spoke to the CBC about the big move.

SOUNDCLIP

GREG DONALD: The load left yesterday evening and, uh, I know myself and Premier King and Minister Thompson and some other producers we're all going to be there tomorrow to pass some of the best potatoes in the world... or the best potatoes in the world. It's an effort to keep this issue top of mind in our nation's capital and with our... our federal officials there.

MITCH CORMIER: Why did you decide putting P.E.I. potatoes right on the table is the best way to draw attention to this?

GD: Well, it... obviously, it's a potato issue. It's an issue for all of P.E.I. And we thought, what better way than... you know, we… like I said, we have the best potatoes in the world. They're healthy. They're ready to go to market. And we thought, what better way to... to... to keep awareness to this issue?

MC: Chad, what's going on at East Point Potato these days?

CHAD ROBERTSON: It's definitely been a stressful time for the farm community in P.E.I. I mean, we're just devastated by this. And every day that goes by, there's feelings of anger. And frustration and anxiety are certainly rising the further we go into this.

MC: And so, so what do you want people to take away when they're handed a bag of potatoes tomorrow in Ottawa?

CR: Well, I hope that they see that they're getting a good bag of potatoes. They're perfectly fine. They're beautiful. Probably some of the best potatoes we've ever seen. And if they're good enough for Canadians, they should be good enough for everybody around the world, I think.

MC: That's the thing. You had a good season this year.

CR: Yeah, I would have to say it was probably one of the best seasons we've ever seen, I think, as far as yield and the quality of the crop. So it's just... it's just heartbreaking really to be sitting... a lot of guys just sitting still looking at this pile of potatoes and wondering what's going to happen with it? I guess we hope that everyone in Ottawa is doing as much as they possibly can do. I know there's not much sleep in the farming community these days, and we hope that everyone on the trade side and the negotiating side is working as hard as we're working in our minds anyway.

TS: Chad Robertson of Marvyn's Gardens and East Point Potato and Greg Donald, general manager of the PEI Potato Board, speaking with Mitch Cormier on CBC's Island Morning today.

[Music: Ambient]

Garbage Patch Wildlife

Guest: James Carlton

TS: You've probably heard of The North Pacific Subtropical Gyre -- better known as The Great Pacific Garbage Patch. That's the 1.6 square kilometers of the ocean containing about 79,000 tons of plastic waste. And for some marine life -- it's now something else. It's home. For coastal species -- that's something that's never been seen before. Professor James Carlton of Williams College is one of the authors of a new paper on the emerging populations. It's published in the journal Nature Communications. We reached Professor Carlton in Mystic, Connecticut.

CO: Jim, what has taken up residence on the Great Pacific garbage patch.

JAMES CHARLTON: What's out there, we've discovered, are species that normally we associate with the coastal zone right along the seashore, rocky... rocky tide pools and... and dock pilings and things like that. But we’ve discovered that these same species are now actually living and reproducing out in the open ocean.

CO: What kind of species are we talking about?

JC: Sea anemones, small crustaceans, really a wide variety of invertebrates that have become very common in some cases and abundant, which we have never believed before could actually exist on the high seas.

CO: But not just existing. You're saying they're actually thriving out there?

JC: They are. They're actually out there. They're reproducing. These are many of the same species we discovered when we looked at the debris that came off the Japanese tsunami after 2011. And those were species that were passing through the garbage patch and the gyres on their way to North America and Hawaii. We now discovered that many of these same species have actually colonized plastic debris that did not come from the tsunami. That has actually been out there for a long time.

CO: And so if it's been for that long, there's… like, we're talking about multi-generations then?

JC: We certainly are. Yes, absolutely. We think that these species have been reproducing for some time now out there and in previous decades or centuries, they simply did not lack the habitat. But we've now inserted this sea of plastic out there.

CO: So this is... these are a kind of opportunistic colonies, right? They've just seen a place and they're setting up shop there. And so, what does that actually mean for the food chain out in the ocean?

JC: That's really an excellent question. We... we've just basically discovered the fact that these species are rising up there as they become established, colonizing the open ocean. And... and the next question certainly is where do they fit in? Who's eating them? What are they eating? How do they fit in with the native pelagic species that are out there? These are the next research questions. But basically, we’ve have just been able to establish that eyebrow raising that species are actually out there and and have colonized.

CO: Are there species -- open ocean species -- that had already colonized that plastic?

JC: Yes, there are classic native species that are already out in the open ocean. Those same species are now colonized, the plastic that's out there as well. And we think those species have become more abundant as well because of the… of how much more plastic there is out there than natural debris.

CO: OK, so if you have open ocean colonies there and now you're getting coastal colonies that have arrived there, is it... is there some sort of... some sort of clash of civilisations likely?

JC: [chuckling] It certainly is. We find... we found the same the native species and the... and the invaders on the same objects. And so they certainly are coexisting, but we don't know what is the extent to which they are competing or preying on each other or otherwise competing for food or space.

CO: If they're living on this plastic, a lot of it's... well, we call the garbage patch, but really, it's a lot of microplastics, right? So are they... are they ingesting the microplastics, some of these organisms?

JC: You know, that's another excellent question. The species we're seeing are living on the macroplastics, the larger pieces. We have seen little bits of plastic coming out of the sea anemones that are out there -- the coastal sea anemones -- that are now out there in the middle of the ocean. We see little bits of plastic coming out of their mouths, but we don't know the extent to which the microplastics are in most of these species.

CO: But... OK, but if it's possible that they're ingesting it, that goes into the food chain in another way, right? So that larger species who are eating... eating those guys are now possibly going to be taking in more plastic.

JC: Certainly, if those... if those species at the bottom of the chain are ingesting a fair amount of microplastics and those species are eaten, then yes, whatever is in those species is going into the gut of the next... the next one up. Absolutely.

CO: There’s so much changing in our world because of climate change and because of the degradation of environments. We're seeing all kinds of animals are adapting. So is this in any way an encouraging sign?

JC: Um, I don't think of it as an encouraging sign in the sense that we really are now seeing the invasion mediated by human activity as a habitat that we thought was immune to being altered by our adding species into... into that environment. We... we know that we've introduced species to ports and harbours, into estuaries and marshes, to rocky shores. We really thought that we really couldn't alter the biodiversity in the composition of the open ocean, the high seas by literally introducing species out there. But that appears to be exactly what we've now done. By providing this vast new habitat, we. have... we have provided a new playing field for species that we thought previously could not live out there.

CO: Now that you know that exists, what are the big questions? What do you need to know beyond this?

JC: Yeah, you know, you know, it is in a sense, relatively new because we weren't really seeing a plastic ocean until the last few decades. What we need to know is, where are these species? How abundant are they? What is their diversity? And in particular, are what we are seeing in the North Pacific Ocean -- in the North Pacific Garbage Patch -- is that happening in other oceans? We want to just try to understand how global this phenomenon is? With changing climates, increasing storm systems, we've concentrated so much plastic on the coastal zone that's likely that more and more will be washed into the ocean.

CO: It's a cliche, but I'm going to say it sounds like a perfect storm.

JC: It is, unfortunately, yes.

CO: Jim, thank you.

JC: Thank you so much.

TS: James Carlton is the Professor of Marine Sciences Emeritus at Williams College. We reached him in Mystic, Connecticut.

[Music: Hip-hop beat]

DL: Des Moines Stink

TS: Dateline: Des Moines, Iowa.

[Music: “Dateline Theme”]

TS: You might not think of Des Moines as a booming metropolis. But the city is growing fast. And a new wave of urban development is attracting a generation of young people with a nose for the city's untapped potential. It's just that when they arrive, they have to hold their noses. As one city official admitted to NPR, quote: "Most people complain about a smell that is akin to burning, rotting flesh." The spike in complaints is new, but the smell has a long history. Before the upscale boutiques and coffee shops popped up, Des Moines was largely an industrial town. And the few remaining meat processing and rendering plants still provide a pungent reminder of the city's past. The smell is so bad the city operates a 24-hour odor hotline. A crack squad of staff is standing by, ready to send someone out to track smells and sniff out leads. Trust me, it's legit. We tried calling. As they explain on their Facebook page, quote: "Call in any foul odors you encounter during your traverses through our phenomenal city! Your input is imperative for the success of managing the stank!" Unquote.

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December 07, 2021 Episode Transcript

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