Anastasia: For our one hundredth Player's own Voice conversation… And dare I say, we don't look a day over 99! We are proud to talk with Beckie Scott. You 'll never find an athlete with a better moral compass. The Nordic skier raced, and won, with integrity for her entire competitive career. She earned even greater respect through her work at WADA, the world anti - doping agency… that story gained notoriety in the documentary 'Icarus'…

And now? Beckie Scott is nearly five years deep into a cause that all Canadians can get behind…her Spirit North organization creates sports opportunities for thousands and thousands of young indigenous people…and that is where our next 100 conversations begin.

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Anastasia: Thank you so much for joining me. How are you doing? I know you're a busy lady.

Beckie Scott: I'm doing well, thanks. It's good to be here.

Anastasia: How's Spirit North going?

Beckie Scott: Spirit North is going very well. it's busy these days. It's absolutely been a journey from four and a half years ago to now. But in spite of COVID and in spite of all the difficulties and challenges, we are actually growing and expanding at a rate we haven't before. I think the interest in the programmes is at an all time high to be honest, and I think that's probably a reflection of the awareness and the acknowledgement of mental health and how important that is for kids and getting outside and physical activity, making all those connections. So it's good, but it's busy!

Anastasia: Give me some numbers, like how many volunteers, how many kids.

Beckie Scott: So at the moment, very few volunteers, obviously, because there's a lot of sensitivity around being in communities. So we really are just our staff, our coaches, our programme leaders in a given year, in this year, for example, we'll have around between 40 and 50 coaches working in around 65 to 70 communities. We have at least, you know, 6,300 -probably more - going through the programme on an annual basis. And the programmes are now year-round. So we start, you know, September 1st and we're going right through to the end of August now with all kinds of summer sports and new additions.

Anastasia: Yeah. So my understanding and part of my ignorance, it's mostly Nordic, right? So cross-country. But what do you do in the summer then? Is it all on roller skis?

Beckie Scott: No, so we started with cross-country skiing, so the programme is really anchored in cross-country skiing because it started in northern Alberta. And, you know, we have winter there nine months of the year.

Anastasia: Alberta girls. Yeah!

Beckie Scott: Of course! And it was a very easy sport in a lot of ways. When you don't have a facility or, you know, a lot of infrastructure resources to invest in equipment. So cross-country skiing, you know, you can often just open up the gym doors a lot of time and there's some bush or some land and take the kids out and we just go and ski. But after a couple of years, you know, the interest from the schools and communities and kids was, how can we keep the programme going outside of winter because kids are loving it? So what other sports can we explore? So to that end, you know, we do all of our sports outside land-based, and there's a reason for that. And then there also have to be really low, low cost, low maintenance, low infrastructure.

So we do mountain biking, we do orienteering. We've introduced rock climbing. There's a skateboarding programme now and canoeing, and stand up paddle boarding. But canoeing has been our biggest, most recent addition, and it's just taking off. So. So yeah, all kinds of sports all year long now.

Anastasia: Are you good at skateboarding?

Beckie Scott: No.

Anastasia: Yeah, I turned maybe twenty five and I'm just afraid of everything now. You mentioned that it's all land based. Why is that?

Beckie Scott: Because well, it started as an outdoor activity, sport, cross-country skiing, which is on the land. But there is a real growing body of evidence and research to support the importance of connection to land, particularly for kids and particularly for indigenous children and youth. There is just a spiritual, emotional and mental health connection there with being on the land and connecting to the land, being in nature, experiencing nature like in the way that we facilitate it. So. So we really prioritize that. On occasion of course, you know, weather dependent, we have to move indoors. But for the most part, we are always trying to get the kids in the programmes outside and being outdoors.

Anastasia: We're at the Canmore Nordic Centre right now. What's your connection to this place in history?

Beckie Scott: Oh, I feel like it's my second home. You know, I raced here when I was competing. My kids come here now actually, like, I'm up here four days a week with my own kids who are part of the ski programme and the ski community.

Anastasia: And do they know? Are they like, my mom's a big deal? Or are they: Okay, mom, stand over there?

Beckie Scott: Yeah. Yeah, they're a little bit more like, just stay over there, mom. But yeah, I do feel a very special connection to Canmore and the Nordic Centre here. Obviously, this is one of the few facilities that really fulfilled the legacy, the promise of its legacy, you know, from 1988 to now, being still able to host world class events and the capacity to do that and to support the ski community in the biathlon and communities, the way it does is just such a gift.

Anastasia: It's so special. We were talking to Catreona Le May Doane and Kristina Groves and a few legends from speedskating, and they said the exact same thing about the Oval, right? And it's so cool to see that 1988 is still very much alive.

Beckie Scott: Yeah, I mean, I came here in 1988 as a 12 year old. 13? Anyway, to watch. (Don't do the math) but to watch the Olympics, you know, with my parents? I was starting to get really into skiing, and they brought me here and we watched, you know, the cross-country skiing at the Olympic Games and it was such a moment in my evolution as an athlete because it really inspired me to think, OK, wow, maybe, maybe this is for me and and here I am now with my own kids.

It's really quite full-circle for sure.

Anastasia: Was there a moment where you kind of thought to yourself, I want to be involved and start Spirit North?

Beckie Scott: You know, not not one single moment. It was really an evolution. It was a process of beginning a programme or starting to become involved in a programme as an ambassador that was already in existence. And that was my first introduction to indigenous communities and visiting the communities, seeing how it really was. The realities of life, particularly for the kids.

Beyond that, I had some experience with sport for development. I had worked for Right to Play for a little bit. I was done my own career in sport. I knew all the incredible value and benefits that come with being an athlete.

And so, then there was the Truth and Reconciliation report, you know, the calls to action in which sport was listed. So it was all sort of a confluence of factors that led me to all these connecting points that brought me to a stage where I was thinking, You know, I think we can do something here with sport, and I think we can address bigger issues beyond just lack of opportunity. We can start to address health and physical health, but also mental health. You know, education, we can look at that, we can talk about community building and all of this through sport. And that's what sort of really was the impetus for Spirit North and getting it off the ground.

Anastasia: How do you ensure that your work is guided by indigenous principles and values?

Beckie Scott: So we do that in a variety of ways. You know, first and foremost, our board of directors is 50 percent indigenous. So we really make sure that that right from the top on down we are integrated and ensuring that the indigenous worldview perspective experience is part of our organizational structure. Beyond that, we our programme approach really is based in co-creation. So when it when a community approaches us to begin programming, we go through a process with the community members and that's whoever wants to take part: Elders, teachers, you know, family members, students. We go through co-creation where we spend a couple of days working through a process of discovery, learning what the community's values, traditions, beliefs are, what are their strengths, what are their ideal outcomes?

What do they see this programme being able to do for the children and youth of the community? And we build out the programmes based on that. So our programme model is very much about collaboration and partnership. It isn't us parachuting in and telling everybody what to do. It's a shoulder to shoulder, 'Let's go down this path together' model, which is, you know, just anchored in collaboration and partnership so that we're walking the path together, addressing the issues together and celebrating their successes together.

Anastasia: What have you learnt in that evolving conversation?

Beckie Scott: I think I've learnt that, because our programme is really about sport and play, I think as a non-Indigenous person, it was really enlightening for me to discover honestly how limited that opportunity was for indigenous kids in this country. The barriers that existed, visible and invisible, you know the systemic issues, the um, the policies in place, all the things that just layer over layer over layer and just create this this wall, that's a barrier.

Anastasia: What's the next big thing for Spirit North?

Beckie Scott: What gets me excited about Spirit North is just the opportunities that lie ahead. In many ways, I feel like we're still just getting started like we really are at a jumping off point to become something really big in the country and maybe even beyond. We have a young, enthusiastic, incredibly talented team. We've been able to attract some remarkable coaches and people to the organization and the interest is high and I think the need is there. So as long as we have that combination, I think we're just going to keep rolling forward and doing everything we can do to make the organization successful.

Anastasia: I would love to back up. So you've been with Spirit North for four and a half years now, were you still with WADA at that point?

Beckie Scott: Yeah, yeah, I was.

Anastasia: So what are some of the lessons that you learnt while at WADA, if any, that you've brought into how you run spirit north?

Beckie Scott: Yeah, that's a great question. You know, I think I've always been very anchored in values and ethics and have a fairly strong moral compass. So that was what initially drew me to integrity and sport issues and anti-doping in particular, the carryover of courses that, you know, also drew me to addressing or helping starting to think about addressing some of the issues in indigenous communities for kids around sport and the lack of opportunity there. So I think both of those, the connecting point there probably is a really strong belief in fairness and equality of opportunity.

I can give you an analogy I used to use a lot, which is that when I was in anti-doping, we often would talk about someone putting their start gate 10 metres down the track, you know, and that was the equivalent of what it was to have the doping advantage or to be cheating, and that our job was to bring that start gate down to the to the start line for everybody to have the same opportunity.

And when I think about indigenous kids in this country, I think their start gate has actually been set 10 metres back and or maybe it's not even on the track yet for some of them. And so my job now is to bring that start gate up to the start line for them, you know, and to provide them the same equality of opportunity. So I think that's where I sit really with both organisations having the experience of WADA and now with Spirit North. For me, it's really about fairness, about equality of opportunity and all the things that I grew up valuing in sport, you know, which were, which were so based in integrity. And all of that equality, you know, I mean, that was that was ingrained in me from a very early age. So just to carry this over and you know, beyond my sport career is where I'm at now.

Anastasia: There's no one better that they could have. And thank you for everything you've done. I think I was able to watch about 14 minutes of Icarus, and then I just went to my shower and cried. When people ask you about WADA, are you just like, I'm sick and tired of talking about this. Do you get an emotional reaction?

Beckie Scott: No, not now. You know, my term ended in 2019 or the end of 2019. So it's been a little while. It's been some time since it's passed. I do reflect on that time, though. I don't regret it. You know, it was an interesting time in my life. I feel like I had a tremendous privilege in a way to represent athletes and their right to clean, fair, doping-free sport, which is something that I really strongly believed in. You know, I spent a great deal of time and energy working in that domain. I feel like I did what I could do. Um, it's definitely, you know, it's difficult to feel optimistic about that. Like having seen the degree of, I call it, I've seen the dark side of sport. But at the same time, I also see the light side of sport and I see with my work, the spirit and Earth and even my own kids in sport like I do see the heart of it, the heart and soul of why we still believe in sports, you know, which is so great and which keeps me, I think, believing in it.

Anastasia: How heavy is it to know that you've seen the dark side, though?

Beckie Scott: It's difficult, sometimes, I think, to be objective when I see, um, you know, certain sport administrations or bodies, for example, with their activities and some of the things that go on, I think I feel like I have a fairly…. I have the insider's perspective and I know how those decisions get made. I know a lot of the conversations that take place and I know where a lot of the incentive is anchored. You know that there's a tremendous amount of power that is consolidated at the top. And I think you know that's unfortunate in a way that the whole model really is built on the backs of athletes and in their performances in sport and this tremendous sacrifice that athletes make in a lot of ways because they are very much, you know, unpaid.

Anastasia: Yeah, its not glamorous, let's call it like it is

Beckie Scott: Yeah, so on some level, I am also encouraged because I think we have seen a lot in the rise of athlete activism. We have seen a lot of independent athlete advocacy groups emerging. There's reason and cause to be optimistic about that. I think athletes in particular are recognizing the power that they hold and the importance that they have in that arena, in the whole model themselves. So I'm hopeful that continues on. I think it's got some traction now.

Anastasia: What area makes you most optimistic, especially in anti-doping, what makes you think we're actually on the right track?

Beckie Scott: (pause) I think that, again, I would have to say the emergence of athlete independent groups and athlete advocacy. Sorry.

Anastasia: You just made me sad. Yeah. Uh. May I ask you where the biggest need for improvement is?

Beckie Scott: I think the biggest need for improvement is a return to principled decision making and independence within the governing bodies.

Anastasia: You've had to say that a few times.

Beckie Scott: Yes. I think what I saw, particularly in WADA over my time, there was a drift away from independence and objectivity, which is a really key and important factor in an organization that is like that. That has declared itself a principle-based organization dedicated to fairness and a level playing field. You cannot at the same time serve the business interests of sport, and you cannot be pulled and directed by people who are leading the business interests of sport. And that was the unfortunate evolution that I witnessed in my time there.

And of course, I think there's a possibility for it to return back to… I think there's still some very good people involved in the movement as a whole and pushing obviously for that, for transparency, for accountability, for integrity. But when I left there, I really had seen I think it move to a place that was just unfortunate, in my opinion.

Anastasia: My blood sugar is dropping having this conversation with you, I feel nauseous. You've said 'integrity' about 10 times, and I just appreciate what you have done for all of us and that that is so close to your heart.

Do you ever think back to when you won gold? And do you ever think, wow, I really changed, you know, the nature of the game in North America for Nordic sports? Do you think about your success?

Beckie Scott: It's been a long time now. I don't think about it regularly. 20 years ago.

Anastasia: Where do you keep your medals?

Beckie Scott: In a desk drawer.

Anastasia: Yeah, it's always a boring answer,eh?

Beckie Scott: You know, it's kind of, uh, I think too, the longer you are away from your sport career, the more you realize that really the medals aren't the things that resonate with you anymore. It's, the friendships and the adventures and the experiences and the memories and connecting with others that are the pieces that you really pull out of your own career. And those are the things you cherish. Yeah.

Anastasia: What are you looking forward to in Beijing?

Beckie Scott: In Beijing, I think, you know, I'm just I'm looking forward to being excited by Olympic sport again. It's it is really the pinnacle of so many athletes' careers. It is an event by which you really see people rise to the occasion and sometimes do extraordinary things. And um, so I'm always excited by that. And beyond that, I think, as a cross-country skier, you know that this is a moment to really have your sport amplified in the world. To see it, particularly in North America.

We don't see cross-country skiing on TV every weekend or, you know, it's never really one of the sports in the spotlight. So I'm always excited for cross-country skiing because it is a moment for it to be in the spotlight, to get a little bit more attention and to have some. I think some people appreciate the sport for what it is.

Anastasia: Who are some of the kids that you're excited for?

Beckie Scott: I think in Canada, we've got a great team. It's a young team for sure. Definitely they're young. They're talented. I don't know that anyone is going for the podium on this Olympic Games, but neither was I at my first olympic games.

Anastasia: You weren't going for the podium for your first Olympics and then you have some serious hardware. Just like a moment where like, "I'm going to win gold now."

Beckie Scott: Well, it was not quite that, but it wasn't too far off. So Nagano was my first Olympic Games, in 1998. So a terrible, dismal performance. You know, honestly, I think my best place was 45th or something and we came out of those games just going, you know, we can do better than this. And we have to do better than this.

And then at that point, we also knew that Salt Lake City was the next Olympics, it was in North America where there were so many ways and means to see this as an advantage, because the sport is always in Europe and we're always racing and travelling and training and, you know, jet lagged, living in hotels. So there was a lot of ways to see that next four years as…Just how do we do everything in our power to turn this around? And thankfully we did.

Anastasia: Yeah, you certainly did. So young, building team in Beijing, but Italy, hopefully, you know, some significant results for Team Canada?

Beckie Scott: Yeah, of course. I mean, I really believe in the possible and I know that cross-country skiing is a sport that has some well, we talked about doping, you know, and there's problems, of course, in that sport. But I but I do also believe in the possible. What's possible when you pull together, you know, a perfect performance and you've done the perfect preparation. I really do think it is possible. So yeah.

Anastasia: Oh, it's so exciting. I am so grateful to have connected with you. When you get - this actually is a silly question- but when you get recognised, is it for what you did on the ski hill or WADA or Spirit North, or just for being a lovely community leader?

Beckie Scott: Well, that's a great question, because it's actually a mix. People will come up and say, I'm proud of what you did for Canada, and I'm like, Oh, really? For skiing 20 years ago? But over time, you know, it really did shift to the work with WADA and anti-doping, and there was some, I think that really resonated with a lot of people because it was across all sports. You know, it wasn't just skiing, it was a lot of people hold belief in sport and its importance in the place it holds in society.

And they're very… they care a lot about it. So doping and corruption in sport really does bring out an emotional response in a lot of people. And so I think that when you're working on the right side of it and you're trying to restore integrity and you're trying to, you know, bring those start gates back to the start line, it's…It does resonate with people in an unexpected way,

Anastasia: Thank you so much for taking the time. Certainly resonated with me! It's like you think you're over things and then you just start actually having a real conversation about it. And I just hope you know how much you have meant to me and to so many of my team-mates.

I don't want to get emotional, but you stand up for what's right, and I appreciate you. Thank you very much. My cross-country ski skill is about zero out of ten.

Beckie Scott: I don't believe that.

Anastasia: No, it's not good. Like, holy moly. You think there might be a little bit of transfer over with speed skating and cross-country skiing? Oh dear.

Beckie Scott: I don't know. I mean, I took Clara Hughes out a couple of years ago, and she said the same thing and she was great.

Anastasia: Do not compare me to Clara Hughes, Beckie Scott! That is an offensive thing for Clara, poor Clara. But thank you.

Beckie Scott: No. Thank you. This was great.

Anastasia: Peace.

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We met Beckie at her old second home…the Bill Warren training center in Canmore, Alberta. There's a video version of this chat at CBC sports youtube channel. Players Own Voice podcast is a cbc sports production. Social media? Hashtag us, players own voice... My handle is Anastasure . Olivia Pasquarelli edits our audio. Adam Blinov wrote our theme music. David Giddens is our producer. Thanks for listening...