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The AIH Transcript For November 05, 2021

[hosts]Carol Off, Chris Howden[/hosts]

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[music: theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

CO: Fuelling controversy. Canada's oil and gas industry is the centre of negative attention at this week's climate summit in Glasgow -- but one energy CEO says he's not sure politicians are clear about the difference between their promises and the truth.

CH: Better inoculate than never. An Alabama sheriff goes from vaccine-hesitant to vaccine-booster -- and now, he's doing everything he can to persuade the people in his town to do the same.

CO: Mic drop-in. The premier of New Brunswick was an unwelcome guest at a protest by striking workers in the province this morning -- and his later announcement that he's forcing some of them back to work was even less welcome.

CH: It's a dishonour just to be nominated. The short list is out for the Diagram Prize for Oddest Book Title of the Year. This year's nominees include titles that pay homage to hats, curves, and Superman's genitals.

CO: Touching base. The late tuba virtuoso Dennis Miller provided depth to every orchestra he played with -- and for his students, working with a master of the low end was the high point.

CH: And... underground phenomenon. A New Zealand couple digs a massive potato out of their vegetable garden -- and while they wait for confirmation that it's the largest-ever, the whole town is rooting for it.

CH: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that welcomes commentators and tater comments.

[music: theme]

Part 1: COP26: Oil Producer Reaction, New Brunswick Back To Work Order, Ugly New Zealand Potato

Oil Producer Reaction

Guest: Grant Fagerheim

CH: Grant Fagerheim didn't make it to this week's climate conference in Glasgow. But his industry has been in the spotlight from the start. He's is the CEO of Whitecap Resources, a big oil and gas producer with operations in Alberta, Saskatchewan, and BC. One of Prime Minister Trudeau's big promises at COP26 is a re-commitment to capping emissions from Canada's oil patch. Mr. Fagerheim responded with a warning about politicians setting goals they don't know how to achieve. We reached Grant Fagerheim in Calgary.

CO: Mr. Fagerheim, what worries you about Justin Trudeau's promise to cap emissions from the oil and gas production?

GRANT FAGERHEIM: Well, thanks very much, and it's not the mere fact that we're looking to cap greenhouse gas emissions. We should be doing this, I think, not just in the oil and gas business. But we have to realize that the emission reductions will take a very long period of time to... to take place. So the consternation is not that we're capping emissions. We should be doing that for all sectors. But also understand that it is going to take a very long period of time and a lot of collaboration in order to do that.

CO: OK, can I just... just to... just... just to give some numbers here because Canada produces 730 megatons of greenhouse gas emissions, and this is 2019 data I'm working with. The oil and gas industry of Canada accounts for 26 per cent of that total. So, yes, other industries, other sectors, but this is the largest single sector of emissions producing in Canada. So I think that's why you're being targeted. Is that not the case?

GF: I don't think that's truly the case. I think that this is... there is... there is more political, what we'll call politicism of the 26 per cent emission. We should be going back, and when we talk about this, this is the miscalculation that they've made is that the pace and scale of the shift to renewables is going to take a long period of time. So from our perspective, when we're talking about the energy sector, we have to talk about not just the producing sector but the refining sector. We've got to talk about concrete manufacturing. There's refiners in eastern Canada as well that has to be considered in. We don't know. When we talk about this federal government has gone forward and with these vocal aspirational targets, but with no collaboration or discussion as to how we're going to get there. And that there, that is the challenge.

CO: And you think that's political? You think that this is a politicized decision on the part of the government and not... not genuinely an effort to curb greenhouse gas emissions from this country?

GF: To be very frank, I think that they've... they have to listen to all... their wanting to. I think the federal government would like to advance down a path of decarbonization. But how we're doing that has to be a conversation. We have to be included in the conversation, everyone, versus just putting Canada at risk. I mean, I think it's dangerous to put Canada at risk of putting targets out there with no specific targets that... that should be put in place.

CO: But your company... your company is a major player in this world of carbon sequestration and this carbon capture. So are you saying that... that this promise, this belief that this technology is the answer, that... that's not the case?

GF: No, for sure, it's the case. And we talk about that, but we've never been asked that question, to be honest with you. So that is the pathway. That is the cleanest, most proven pathway to... to go to a lower-carbon economy. But we have to be included in the conversation. And it will work. We've demonstrated it works. We've got 21 years of history. But that's the incentive programs that we're waiting for from the federal government to say, how should we be doing this collectively? And what other energy sources, as we're going to see, energy demand is going to continue to grow. So how are we going to achieve that? How are we going to make it more affordable for Canadians and its constituents?

CO: OK, when you talk about that, so what you're saying is missing because these conversations have been ongoing, we know that... that this idea of this carbon capture technology has been an ongoing discussion. What you're saying, if I understand this, is that what you feel is missing is that you're not hearing a dollar figure for how much subsidy you're going to get, how much government money is going to go into the production and the development of these technologies that you say are the answer to the oil industry in this country?

GF: It's not... it's not the financing of it. It is really there's a carbon tax that's been set forward. It's the offset investment tax credit. It wouldn't be necessarily just funding. It is just on the tax credit side as to how we can make these commercial. Because we're not going to get better behaviour if there isn't some form of incentive to do so. So penalties don't work. Incentives do. That's what we're... we continue on. That's what we want to have the conversation. I think that energy producers are looking to have the conversation with... with the government and how we can do this together.

CO: So do you think carbon... carbon pricing... you say carbon pricing doesn't work? You say that that's a stick, and you want carrots?

GF: Well, you need carrots. You need an offset credit or... or how are you going to invest?

CO: You've said elsewhere that the federal government has massively overestimated what the carbon capture system at this point can do in order to bring that down to net-zero by 2050. Is that the case?

GF: That's correct. I don't believe it's realistic at this particular... it's not just carbon capture, it's all forms of behaviour and the energy forms that we're going to use in the future. We have to think about not just affordability, but reliability and durability of our energy. So do we actually more progressively move towards nuclear or do we... renewables have been very, very costly and haven't proven to be effective from a reliability perspective at this particular time. Huge amounts of money is going into renewables, and that's good. We have to continue to advance those as well. But whether it's in oil and gas or coal or, you know, with capture, we can actually look to decarbonize. But what we do need is an incentive program back on the other side because you're not going to spend money if there isn't... if you can't get any type of return.

CO: All right. But... but... but the environmentalists are also saying that it's massively overestimated as to what this technology can do. And so, they're saying the same thing as you. Their answer, though, is to leave the oil and gas in the ground?

GF: You can't. I mean, so you have to call into... it kind of makes you... you have to laugh at that because where are we going to get energy from? Do you think people are going to go without energy, not be able to heat their homes, not be able to... to have food on their tables or to... to move around or transport? That's unrealistic. I mean it... and, therefore, what you do is there's a path. The concept of a cap is not problematic at all. It's the pathway to get there, and for all of us.

CO: Mr. Fagerheim, we will leave it there, and I appreciate your input. It's a… it's a very important conversation, and thank you.

GF: OK, and thanks very much, Carol.

CO: Bye-bye.

CH: Grant Fagerheim is the CEO of Whitecap Resources. We reached him in Calgary.

[Music: Pop beat]

New Brunswick Back To Work Order

Guest: Stephen Drost

CH: He was trying to fire up striking workers with the Canadian Union of Public Employees, or CUPE, who were demonstrating outside the New Brunswick legislature this morning -- by calling out the premier. But union president Stephen Drost ended up getting, perhaps, more than he bargained for -- when the premier himself showed up and took the mic. CUPE officials were calling out the government's non-response to a counter-proposal they made overnight, to end the week-old strike. Then Premier Blaine Higgs crashed the news conference.

SOUNDCLIP

STEPHEN DROST: And I see the premier's here, so I'm not sure if he's prepared to accept that deal?

[Sound: Laughs from the crowd and people saying “no”. They begin to yell “shame” like in that scene from Game of Thrones]

BLAINE HIGGS: So let's talk about the offer. The offer in relation to what has been provided here is exactly what was on the table a week ago. In a different format, but the same dollars as was provided a week ago and as a counter from... from Mr. Drost. I'm asking here that we must get our health care people back into our hospitals. But if anyone wants to come here to a mic and ask a question and we have a conversation, no problem. [the crowd vocally doesn’t like this] So, are there any questions? OK, any questions? All right. Merci beaucoup. Merci beaucoup pour votre attention. Merci.

[Sound: lots of hollering and horns. Stephen Drost yells “Shame”]

CH: That was New Brunswick premier Blaine Higgs unexpectedly grabbing the microphone during a demonstration by striking public sector workers in Fredericton this morning. This afternoon, the government announced that it's using the COVID-19 state of emergency to force health care workers back to work starting at midnight tonight. Stephen Drost is the president of CUPE New Brunswick. We reached him in Fredericton.

CO: Mr. Drost, let's first of all start with your reaction to the news that health care workers will be forced back to their jobs as of tonight?

SD: You know, very sad day, you know, for the history of New Brunswick again, that, you know, the government has decided to use this legislation to try and force members back to work. These health care workers have been grossly neglected for a very long time, haven't had fair wages, and they're... you know, to force people back to work instead of settling a contract is not going to solve problems. It’ll probably create more.

CO: Right. But it's not all the CUPE members, right? These are the ones who work in the health authorities. The... your... New Brunswick's health authorities are saying that the system is broken. That they have... just one of them 240 surgeries, 10,000 tests and procedures cancelled during this week-long strike by your union. And so they say that their patients are at risk and they have to go back to work. What do you say to that?

SD: Well, again, there's a lot of misleading information. When they went into the state of emergency, they began to cancel all elective surgeries. And the reality is they have so grossly underfunded the health care system in the last 15 to 20 years that if it can go into crisis when we have significant essential service levels, designated employees that have to stay on the job, if it can get into that kind of condition in less than a week, then obviously there's something very, very wrong.

CO: Do you think the New Brunswick government using the state of emergency powers it has with COVID... do you think this is a valid use of those pandemic powers?

SD: I think it's an overreach. I think it's a... truly, you know, to use that in the labour situation, totally unnecessary. I... we had actually informed the premier last night we were more than prepared to send all of the workers back had they even considered or entertained our... our counterproposal to what they had offered yesterday. And we weren't very far apart. So, you know, I had actually spoken to a representative of the... you know, of the province last night, 4:00 a.m., and said, you know what? If you can accept our counter -- and it was not far apart at all. If you could accept this counter, we'll order all the workers back today and then take this package out and, you know, see whether or not it's something they would ratify. So, again, we thought it was unnecessary.

CO: We just heard part of the tape of Premier Blaine Higgs taking the mic at your protest. [slight chuckle] Quite, quite unusual for a premier to show up in a situation like that and wanting to take questions. Isn't he trying to figure out what to do? Isn't he showing a desire by virtue of that to hash it out with your union?

SD: No, actually. We had met with the... a small delegation of us had met with the premier yesterday. And see, he continues to want to... to... to work on pension issues that two of the 10 groups are in bargaining. And we've maintained all along, move those over to another place, deal with them in another matter. But the 10 groups that are bargaining within the centralized bargaining team can't get involved in negotiating pensions for one group or two groups. So, you know, that's been the sticking point all along is that it's his insistency on trying to introduce pension reform to two of the groups at the table that are not interested. They are interested in looking at it and finding ways to make it affordable and sustainable. But, you know, again, it's... it's an unwillingness for the premier to be flexible. And to... when we had agreed to bargain as a group, 10 locals with the province, it was to deal with wages. These workers have not had fair wages in 15 to 20 years.

CO: But now, Premier Higgs showing up like he did, he is known... he has a reputation for doing the unexpected and sometimes making policy on the spot, even reversing policy on the spot. So, what did you make of him... how did you react when he... when he wanted to talk to your workers?

SD: Well, that's why we ended up down at the legislature holding a press conference, to be honest with you. We were reviewing information with the bargaining team this morning, and we're getting calls that he was down there talking to our picketers and suggesting that we had a deal. When, in fact, the group had never agreed to anything. And, you know, had not made any promises that that information would be presented. So again, you are right; he does things quite unorthodox and not the traditional way. And so we felt we had better get down to the legislature and set the record straight.

CO: But he's also saying there was an agreement that was being hashed out he called a path forward. So what happened to that?

SD: Well, and again, that's misleading information. When we met with him yesterday, the small delegation, I made it very clear at the end of that meeting that I could not take that back to the membership because it still continued to involve pensions of two of the 10 groups. So there was no path forward. There was no agreement last night. And, again, it's very, very misleading information.

CO: Will you continue to negotiate to the provincial government given what happened today?

SD: We've always been willing to negotiate fairly.

CO: Will your workers go back tonight?

SD: I... I'm not sure what they're going to do. I don't direct them. I'm the president of the vision. They all have their own respective presidents, and 10 of them are sitting at the table. And CUPE National... like these... these members and their locals will decide what they're going to do with that.

CO: But is it possible that these members will not comply with the order?

SD: I really couldn't comment on that, Carol, one way or the other. I'm not sure what it is they plan on doing?

CO: All right. We will be watching. Mr. Drost, thank you.

SD: I appreciate the call. You have a good day.

CO: You, too. Bye.

SD: Bye.

CH: Stephen Drost is the president of CUPE New Brunswick. We reached him in Fredericton.

[Music: Creepy carnival of death?]

Ugly New Zealand Potato

Guest: Colin Craig-Brown

CH: When someone becomes a sudden international celebrity, they often get too big for their britches. That won't happen with Doug, though. He's already too big. And they don't make britches for potatoes. Doug was dug out of Colin and Donna Craig-Brown's backyard in Hamilton, New Zealand, in August. The reason for all the fanfare is because Doug is gigantic. Possibly the biggest potato ever found. Now, the couple is waiting on confirmation from Guinness World Records. We reached Colin Craig-Brown in Hamilton, New Zealand.

CO: Colin, how is Doug doing?

COLIN CRAIG-BROWN: He's doing fine. He's... he's in the freezer.

CO: [chuckling] He's in the freezer?! Oh my gosh!

CCB: Yes, he's in the freezer.

CO: OK.

CCB: Because when we dug him up, he needed some extra help from the garden fork. And he became impaled on the garden fork.

CO: Right.

CCB: So he's suffered the ravages of global warming and mould set in. So, used a little bit of bleach and washed him down and cleaned him up and popped him in the fridge. But he... he kept getting a bit smelly. So thought in order to save him so that the Guinness people have got something to look at, wrap him up, pop him in the freezer.

CO: Right.

CCB: But I pull him out every now and then when people want to look at him.

CO: [laughing] OK, so can you just take us back to the discovery of Doug in your garden? I mean, you weren't even growing potatoes this year, were you?

CCB: No, no, no, no, no, no. We're just coming out of winter. My wife and I decided, right, if we're going to get anything ready for spring, we might as well just prepare a patch in the garden. And so we chose a spot that was probably the... the worst, weediest part in the garden. And hey, presto, there was this whiteness and the other thing, and we said, what's that?! And we both looked at it, oh, I dunno. So I had a bit of a wiggle, and it wouldn't move. Both of us latched on to it, and it wouldn't move. So I got the garden fork and slipped it in underneath, thinking I was underneath it to lift it out. And yeah, I'd driven it right through the middle of him. And dragged him out of the ground. And we thought, is that a kumara, a sweet potato? Because I grew some sweet potatoes there last season. And I was like, no, it's not one of those. And gave it a scratch and a taste, gave it the taste test, and hey, presto! If it tastes like a spud, it must be a spud. [CO chuckles] And, yeah. So we just hosed him down and, yeah, looked at him in absolute wonderment, you know?

CO: But, I mean, Doug Doug weighs in at nearly eight kilos, right?

CCB: 7.9 He was once we hosed all the dirt off him. And so, yeah, we thought, wow, where did that come from, you know?

CO: But where... where did it come from? I mean, if you weren't growing these potatoes, especially not these monsters, where did it come from?

CCB: Well, I just put it down to a wilding seed potato. And hey, presto! It's bigger than a basketball. And oh, I'd say twice... twice the size of… oh, no, I'd be three times the size of one of your American football football things. [CO chuckles] And almost twice the size of a rugby ball.

CO: What are you feeding your garden, Colin?

CCB: Just what you find in the paddock. Cowpats, those... those big biscuits that... that the cows make for us. It's just one of nature's little mysteries. That's all I'm saying.

CO: Now, it was... now, the... the record for the largest potato. At this point, the world record is five kilos. So you got this beat, right, by quite a bit?

CCB: 4.9 Kilos. That's... that's a guy in Britain. So this thing, you know, even though he's lost a bit of weight through his damage and his…

DONNA CRAIG-BROWN: Evaporation.

CCB: Evaporation and bit of... bit of decay. So, yeah, he still beats it.

CO: But now... but you've taken Doug into town and showed him around town. So what... how are people reacting?

CCB: Well, um, amazement. Just absolute amazement. Head shaking amazement. Some of them want to know what breed he is so they can grow the same one, hopefully, get another one. [both chuckles] But yeah, they want to know what breed he is and what I'm going to do with him and all the same sort of questions that everybody keeps asking.

CO: Well, you can cook it up and have a great big feast, couldn't you?

CCB: It would be. You, too. Yes, it would be. But we always have... it would be full tummies. So I'm thinking I might turn him into vodka. [CO chuckles] Then we can have a potatoless wake, and toast to... toast to Doug on some... some nice potato vodka.

CO: But you were… you were…. you were dressing him up at some point, right? Putting hats on him and stuff?

CCB: Oh yeah, we had a hat on him because we took him out, you know, to give him a bit of sunshine one day. Some people reckon he looks like a baby with his hat on, but I just think he looks like a potato with a hat sitting on top of him. [chuckling]

CO: He looks like Doug. Doug the spud.

CCB: Yeah, Doug. Yeah, dug him up. [CO chuckles] That's how he got his name, yeah.

CO: OK, Colin, so when will you know from the Guinness people whether you have the largest potato ever?

CCB: It's been 10 weeks, and I've got an email --

DCB: Since the 31st of August.

CCB: Since, my wife says, the 31st of August, we submitted our application. And I got an email yesterday saying that we've been accepted, and we have to fill out more forms and all that sort of thing. So I'll get onto that this afternoon and I'll get my press secretary on to that. She can take care of it.

CO: [chuckling] I can hear her in the background getting on to that, yes.

CCB: Yeah. And like, at the end of the day, once it's all said and done, you know, if we don't qualify for whatever reason, hey, it's been fun. We're world-famous in New Zealand, and we've had a... and Doug had his 15 minutes of fame. [CO chuckles] So that's all that matters, really, hey?

CO: Colin, it's great fun to talk to you. Thank you.

CCB: It's been a pleasure talking to you.

CO: And thank your wife, too.

CCB: Oh yes. Yes, she always gets a thank.

CO: [chuckling] OK, bye.

CCB: Thank you. Bye-d-bye.

CH: Colin Craig-Brown is the proud owner and manager of Doug the potato. We reached him in Hamilton, New Zealand. And you can see a photo of Doug on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Electronic funk]

Dennis Miller Obit

CH: When you play the tuba, it's best for your ego to be in inverse proportion to the size of your instrument. You don't get to solo much. Most of the time, you're providing a sturdy low end so that higher-pitched instruments can do the fancy stuff on top. As a tuba teacher, Dennis Miller worked hard to impart that wisdom to his students. And as a tuba player, he shone in that supporting role -- because he understood it implicitly. Although, oddly enough, you might be very familiar with one of his rare moments in the spotlight.

SOUNDCLIP

[Music: the tuba line from a very old A&W commercial]

CH: That's him playing the famous theme music to an A&W commercial in the 70s. Dennis Miller -- one of the most respected tuba virtuosos in Canada -- died this week. He was 77. He was self-taught. And he was a talented teacher from the start: at the age of 18, he was named Principal Tuba with the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra -- where he spent 25 years, before spending another 20-plus years with the Orchestre Symphonique de Montreal. Tom McCaslin, current Principal Tuba with the Calgary Philharmonic, described that as "an unparalleled orchestral career for a Canadian tubist". He also said that, for all his greatness as a tuba player, Dennis Miller was an even greater father and husband. He doesn't get a solo in this piece. But he's there, and he's crucial. Here's part of "Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks", by Richard Strauss, performed by the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra.

[Music: "Till Eulenspiegel's Merry Pranks", by Richard Strauss, performed by the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra]

Part 2: Alabama Vaccine Promotion, Diagram Prize Nominees

Alabama Vaccine Promotion

Guest: Andre Brunson

CH: In Tuskegee, Alabama, people aren't exactly clamouring to get the COVID-19 vaccine. The town is infamous for being the site of the Tuskegee syphilis experiments, in which poor Black residents were monitored to see how the disease progressed -- and purposely not given treatment, even when antibiotics were widely available. Enter Sheriff Andre Brunson, who has been trying to reassure people that, this time, they should get the shot. We reached Sheriff Brunson in Tuskegee.

CO: Sheriff Brunson, just tell us a bit about how you're getting the word out and to get people to go and get vaccinated.

ANDRE BRUNSON: Well, one of the things I do, I do a TV and radio show on Thursday, every Thursday night. So every Thursday night, I'm giving them the numbers and letting them know it's best to get vaccinated. And letting them know that COVID is not a joke. You know, it's real. Also, we have these banners with... with my picture on it with COVID on it that say, please get vaccinated. Also, we have banners around schools and everywhere else.

CO: Now, when you tell people that COVID is no joke, it's the real thing. You say that from experience, don't you?

AB: [chuckling] Oh yes, I do. I say it from experience. You know, I thought, you know at first, that I wouldn't get COVID. You know, I'm a big strong, healthy guy. And I just thought that I wouldn't get COVID. But I ended up getting COVID in January. And boy, I mean, it was like a bus in me. It just knocked me off my feet.

CO: How sick did you get?

AB: I got really sick. I had a big problem with breathing. I had a big problem with, you know, just about everything that I could. You know, I couldn't breathe. I couldn't catch my breath. You know, I just feel really, really bad. You know, at first, started like I had the flu. And then the second day, it got better. But the third day, it was just totally different. I mean, I felt... and I keep saying like bus had hit me. My whole body was sore. And the main thing was just not being able to breathe and not being able to catch my breath.

CO: And you're a... you're a big fit guy. I think we've caught up with you at the... with your football team there.

AB: Yes.

CO: And so, you're a healthy guy, and this happened to you. So what do you tell people when you're talking to them on this... your radio and television?

AB: I always tell people that if that happened to me, it could happen to anybody because people see me as a big, strong guy, fit guy. And they saw it happen to me, and it concerned a lot of people. And after that, a lot of people went to get the COVID shot.

CO: Whenever we've spoken with Black Americans about getting vaccinated, they always say that what gives them pause is what happened in Tuskegee. And they're not in Tuskegee. You are. So, you know, the legacy of that... those experiments. Can you tell us a bit about why people who remember what happened in Tuskegee are so hesitant to get vaccinated?

AB: Well, we see it here. We live it every day. A lot of those people and their families are still here and still alive. They know the effect that the Tuskegee experiment had on people here in Macon County. What they did was they had a control group, and they gave... they gave them syphilis. And they had a control group... I mean, another group they gave the antidote to. So the people who didn't get the antidote suffered, you know, throughout those years. And it made it very hard for some families here in Tuskegee. And they're not going to forget it. They called it the Tuskegee Experiment. So people really, really didn't trust the government with this COVID around. And people still don't trust the government with this COVID around. But it has been very hard on the people here with COVID. We had a lot of deaths. We had a lot of people with COVID here. So I think people are starting to see. You know, people really didn't trust what was going on, but people are starting to see that vaccination did people a lot of good. And we're trying to promote, you know, people getting the vaccination here because it's really going to help in the long run.

CO: So when you talk to people about getting vaccinated in Macon County, they talk about Tuskegee, those experiments on… on Black men with that syphilis study, right?

AB: Right. Some... some of them do, but I don't hear it as much now. I think people... we have had a lot of people like I say, that have gotten the vaccination. You know, so I don't hear it as much now. But you some, they still believe in that and believe about the Tuskegee Experiment and don't trust the government with that. We're going to keep trying and pushing for everybody to get the vaccine and keep trying and pushing for everybody to be safe here.

CO: The numbers are not great for Alabama, are they? I mean, you've got just over 55 per cent of those eligible to get vaccinated have actually got the shots. And so, it's a very low rate, but a very high death rate. You've got the highest death rates from COVID in the United States. That... last month, it was 100 deaths a day. More deaths from COVID than births in your... in your state. So are people… do you know people who have become... become sick like you? Have lost loved ones?

AB: Oh yeah, definitely, definitely. We've had a lot of people lose loved ones. I've had people, you know, that work in the same field, in the law enforcement field, that I'm in that we've lost, you know, because of the the COVID. I mean, it's just all around us. Everybody has somebody that's died, a friend, loved one, family member. Somebody has been affected by COVID. For me, you know, I thought I was going to die with COVID. And I definitely said if I was able to make it out of this patch, I would let people know that COVID is real. COVID can kill you. And COVID will kill you if you don't take the proper precautions.

CO: So you made that commitment to yourself that if you should survive what you were suffering, that you would make it your mission to tell people they should get vaccinated?

AB: Definitely. And I had a cousin that had COVID. He actually stayed in the hospital 40-something days. And I would talk to him every day, and I would tell him that we were here for a reason. You know, we... neither one of us was going anywhere. We were going to do this, and the Lord put us here, and did to us, to make sure we passed the word to everybody.

CO: Has it made a difference? Are you getting... more people are going out to get vaccinated since you got that message out?

AB: Yeah, people are going to get vaccinated. Not only from me, but everybody, all the leaders here in Macon County are doing the same thing. You know, here at Tuskegee University, one of the big things is we have not even had fans coming to football games. We don't even have fans coming into a football game, and that's very rare. We are committed to doing things to make sure out students and the people here at Macon County are safe.

CO: And have you been able to get out and play football again or to run and do all the things you were doing before?

AB: Well, you know, actually, I'm the scrim coach at Tuskegee University. So, you know, I have good days, I have some bad days. I lost 25 pounds. And I'm still having breathing problems. You know, every so often, I have to get out the nebulizer. I have an asthma pump now. I can't catch my breath. You know, and things like that. It's been tough on me, very difficult. Hopefully that... that'll go away. Hopefully, that won't last long.

CO: Sheriff Brunson, I'll let you go. I'm glad to know you're at least maybe on the… on the mend now. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

AB: All right. Thank you. And you take care and just make sure you tell everybody that COVID is real. Make sure that we do the things we need to do to stay safe. You know, and we still preach and tell everybody, wash your hands, you know, keep your social distancing. Make sure you take your vitamins. Make sure you get the vaccine and do the things you do to protect not only you but your family as well.

CO: You're getting that message out for us. Thank you.

AB: All right. Thank you.

CH: We reached Sheriff Andre Brunson in Tuskegee, Alabama.

[Music: International]

Thunberg Fridays For Future

CH: They're there to ensure that COP26 isn't a cop-out. Today, thousands of young people from around the world marched in Glasgow -- calling on world leaders to do more to tackle climate change. Dylan Hamilton was among them. Yesterday, the 17-year-old told Carol how he found the climate conference a difficult and restrictive place to be an activist. And young people aren't exactly enthralled with the progress being made either. So far, some countries have pledged to phase out methane, coal, and fossil-fuel funding. But the deadlines in some of those promises are decades away. And others don't involve some of the countries that create the most pollution. Here's what Greta Thunberg said about that today.

SOUNDCLIP

GRETA THUNBERG: It is not a secret that COP26 is a failure. Many are starting to ask themselves, what will it take for the people in power to wake up? But let's be clear, they are already awake. They know exactly what they are doing. They know exactly what crisis values they are sacrificing to maintain business as usual. The leaders are not doing nothing. They are actively creating loopholes and shaping frameworks to benefit themselves. And to continue profiting from this destructive system. [crowd cheers] This is an active choice by the leaders to continue to let the exploitation of people and nature and the destruction of present and future living conditions to take place. [a chorus of "woo"] The COP has turned into a PR event, where leaders are giving beautiful speeches and announcing fancy commitments and targets. While behind the curtains, the governments of the global north countries are still refusing to take any drastic climate action. And COP26 has been named the most exclusionary COP ever. [cheers of "yes"] This is no longer a climate conference. This is now a global north greenwash festival. [clapping and cheering] A two-week-long celebration of business as usual and blah, blah, blah. [cheering intensifies] The most affected people in the most affected areas still remain unheard. [cheers of "yes"] To stay below the target set in the Paris Agreements and thereby minimizing the risks of setting off irreversible chain reactions beyond human control, we need immediate, drastic annual emission cuts unlike anything the world has ever seen. And as we do not have the technological solutions that alone will do anything even close to that. That means we will have to fundamentally change our society. And this is the uncomfortable result of our leaders repeated failure to address this crisis. And the question we must now ask ourselves is, what is it that we are fighting for? Are we fighting to save ourselves and the living planet? Or are we fighting to maintain business as usual?

CH: Greta Thunberg speaking today at the Fridays for Future march in Glasgow.

[Music: Dancehall]

Diagram Prize Nominees

Guest: Tom Tivnan

CH: Last year, for the first time ever, a Canadian brought home one of the most esteemed literary prizes for his book, A Dog Pissing at the Edge of a Path. Now, I'm sure it's a great book, but that's not why it won. Gregory Forth's book was awarded the Diagram Prize for Oddest Book Title of the Year -- an annual competition that's closely followed by As It Happens. It asks the public to judge a book by its cover -- and its cover alone. The contest is now in its 43rd year -- and the contenders for the 2021 award have just been unveiled. Tom Tivnan is the managing editor at the Bookseller, which administers the prize. We reached him in London.

CO: Tom, we've come a long way from 1978, when the winner was The Proceedings of the Second Annual International Workshop on Nude Mice. Can you just take us through this year's list? How does it stack up?

TOM TIVNAN: Well, very similarly in some ways. Because all six of the shortlistees come from university presses as the first winner was, Proceedings on Nude Mice. So it's very academic-focused, very esoteric. So my favourite, probably this year, and I don't want to kind of move the electorate towards anything, [cuckle] but Is Superman Circumcised? by Roy Shorts This is sort of peak Diagram Prize territory in that the public seems to really like to vote for things that mention, even obliquely, genitalia [CO chuckles] if we're going to just throw it out there. We've had winners in the past, like The Dirt Hole and Its Variations, which let your mind wander, but it was actually a book about trapping. So throughout the years, we've had a lot of winners that have kind of come from this sort of area.

CO: We'll just give a few examples: The Great Singapore Penis Panic.

TT: Yes.

CO: And The Future of American Mass Hysteria. There was God's Doodle in 2013. The Life and Times of the Penis. So basically, if you... having genitalia in the title does give you a leg up?

TT: [chuckling] Yes, it does. Who can forget the classic 2000, when Designing High Performance stiffened Structures, which was a mechanical engineering book that obviously let people giggle about and let people's minds wander?

CO: And it isn't always just male genitalia. We did have the 2017 book Nipples on My Knee. And then there was the Introducing the Medieval Ass. I think those were titles as well that were... that --

TT: Yes.

CO: That placed well in this list?

TT: Yes. [chuckling] I mean, every year, we do have on the shortlist at least one or two that fall into this area. I'm very ashamed to say because I'm the one who picks it, but there you go. [CO chuckles] It's what the people want.

CO: Some of our favourites from the past: Greek Rural Postmen and Their Cancellation Numbers was always a big one around here. And How to Avoid Huge Ships. What are the ones of those nature?

TT: Yeah. So probably the one this year that's really like that is Handbook of Research on Health and Environmental Benefits of Camel Products.

CO: Of course!

TT: So, yes, of course! I think everyone wants to know the health benefits of fermented camel milk. [chuckle] And it's the title they've been long wanting to read.

CO: But, of course, this has nothing to do with reading the books, right? It's always the titles. Definitely, [chuckling] you win by the cover of your book and not by what's inside, right?

TT: We like to say it's the purest literary prize ever because it has nothing to do with the contents. It is purely on those few words, those few obscure, quirky, odd words that are on the cover.

CO: Last year, the first-ever Canadian published winner, A Dog Pissing at the Edge of a Path by Gregory Forth, we spoke to him about his win. And he… [chuckling] he didn't know what to make of it. He said people don't typically make a lot of money from academic books. So, does the prize winner get anything out of this?

TT: No, the prize winner doesn't get anything. The person who nominated the book gets, as we call it, a passable bottle of claret. But they get the fame, the adulation of millions, or dozens, however, you want to say it. I'm glad Gregory Forth, the author last year, quite keen and a very good sport about it. Sometimes the people who are nominated for this, who have often slaved away on a book, you know, that's been a passion project, don't take it in perhaps the best of humour sometimes. [CO chuckles] In fact, that Introducing the medieval Ass, last year, we… I got a sort of short and terse email from the publisher saying that the author wasn't best pleased.

CO: Really?! Oh!

TT: Yes.

CO: But… because I suspect when you title your book, Is Superman Circumcised?, you expect the title to actually generate a bit of interest.

TT: Yeah, absolutely. There's a sort of balance we have to make because a lot of key diagram book is one that's odd, but the author doesn't really know it's odd. However, the Is Superman Circumcised? book, I think, obviously the... the author kind of knows [both chuckle]] he's kind of straddling that line between hard and something that will make people pick up the book. Most of these are all, you know, they're all very serious studies. Is Superman Circumcised? is about the Jewish influences of Superman from its creator and some of the origin stories of Superman. So I can understand why some people sometimes don't think it's the best thing to be on this list.

CO: Do you think that the author of Curves for the Mathematically Curious expected to be on this list?

TT: I don't think so, because it is a very... it's this book about mathematical curves. So I love this book. And I think this might be one of the dark horses because it is... kind of has that sublime oddness about us that someone who is very deep into the mathematical world doesn't realize that the book's title is sort of, quite frankly, kind of [chuckle] horny in some way. It's very kind of erotic. [CO chuckles] You should read the... the book blurb is very, you know, [spoken sultry] oooh, it's for anyone who loves curves. You know, it's that kind of thing.

CO: And now, people can vote. It's open to the public, and we hope you haven't prejudiced this in any way. But maybe we have seen some dark horses and frontrunners. And so I know you may not want to sway the results, but do you have a prediction?

TT: Straight out of the starting gate, I would say, Is Superman Circumcised? has an edge. But as we've seen throughout the years on the Diagram Prize, what's the frontrunner doesn't always come through in the end. It's a long, hard slog of campaigning. [chuckle] Some publishers really love it, and some... and some authors really love it and really get behind it. And those tend to be the ones who win.

CO: Well, I'm voting for Hats: A Very UNnatural History.

TT: [chuckling] I love that one as well. [CO chuckles] And it probably has the best cover. If you go to our website, www.thebookseller.com, you can see all the covers.

CO: That's charming. It's so good to talk to you again. And so, we'll watch for the results. But thanks, Tom.

TT: All right, brilliant. Thank you.

CO: Bye.

TT: Bye.

CH: Tom Tivnan is the managing editor at the Bookseller, which oversees the Diagram Prize for Oddest Book Title of the Year. We reached him in London.

[Music: instrumental]

Canucks Diwali Jersey

CH: When Jag Nagra got a call from the Vancouver Canucks to design a special hockey jersey for Diwali, she says she immediately started thinking about imagery from her life growing up -- fireworks, and twinkling lights. Those are two of the elements that appear on the final product she designed, which Canucks are wearing for warm-up tonight. It's a bright yellow jersey with a special logo in the middle. This morning, Jag Nagra spoke with the CBC about her jersey.

SOUNDCLIP

JAG NAGRA: You know, the Canucks have been such a big part of my entire life. Like, when I was a kid, especially, we used to watch all the games, especially, you know what could be more exciting than the playoffs when you're 10 years old?

STEPHEN QUINN: Wow.

JN: It was such a bonding experience for us. So now, all these years later, as an adult, to be collaborating with them for the second time in the same calendar year is wild.

SQ: What was that like when they reached out to you and said, hey, you want to design a warm-up jersey for us?

JN: [chuckling] Like, I think I just immediately within like 20 seconds of the email coming through, I was like, yes, let's do this! Yeah, I don't even know how I got here? This crazy! [both laughing]

SQ: Well, and speaking of which, we've got to talk about Seth Rogen.

JN: Yes.

SQ: Because he has apparently discovered your jersey. Last night, he tweeted out that he wanted one. He was willing to trade a vase for it.

JN: Yes.

SQ: He apparently does pottery. Who knew? And... and what he makes, I guess, they're technically vases. They sell for thousands of dollars in art auctions. What went through your head when you saw that tweet?

JN: Yeah. I started getting DMs from my friends, saying, oh my God, Seth Rogen's talking about your jersey. So this is the thing. As part of the work I did, I had asked the Canucks if I could have two jerseys because I have two young children, and I wanted to pass them down. And then the conflicting ideas come in my head. Do I give him one of mine? Do I not? Do I save them for my kids? So he ended up Dming me last night saying, let's do a trade. And I kind of explained the thing with my kids. And then, like an hour-and-a-half later, I was like, Seth, you know what? I'm going to give you one of mine. I'm getting them tonight at the game, so let's do this. And then he actually got back to me this morning saying, like, don't worry, Canucks are going to send me one. And then he asked for my address, which is really exciting at the thought of what may come.

SQ: I think I think it's either going to be a vase or a bong.

JN: Yeah, either one, I will take. [laughing]

SQ: It's got to mean a lot to you when you see an international hockey team, you know, actively incorporating symbols of different cultures into their uniforms, though?

JN: Yeah, and this is what I've talked about a lot. Like, if I had seen this sort of representation when I was 10, I think it would have done a lot for me.

SQ: Yeah.

JN: It hasn't, honestly, been since the last like two or three years when I've really found an appreciation for my culture and my roots and like a sense of pride that I never had before. And if I'd been exposed to this sort of stuff earlier, I think things would have been different much earlier for me.

CH: Jag Nagra is a visual artist in BC and the creative director of the Punjabi Market Regeneration Collective. She spoke with the CBC's Stephen Quinn this morning on The Early Edition.

[Music: Acoustic guitar]

Part 3: Anti-Inflammatory Plant, Archives: Moose Stories

Anti-Inflammatory Plant

Guest: Seeseei Molimau-Samasoni

CH: For hundreds of years, Samoan healers have used a plant called "psychotria insularum" to treat body aches, fever and even skin infections. Now, a new study on the matalafi, as it's known locally, is backing up that traditional knowledge -- and suggesting it could be used to treat much more than simple inflammation. The findings will soon be published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Seeseei Molimau-Samasoni is an Indigenous Samoan scientist and one of the study's lead researchers. We reached her in Apia, Samoa.

CO: Seeseei, what have you discovered that this plant might be able to do for people?

SEESEEI MOLIMAU-SAMASONI: in Samoan traditional medicine, matalafi is used to treat various types of inflammations. And this includes things like fevers, swellings, wounds and skin infections. And from our discovery, we're able to expand this further, where matalafi can not only be used for anti-inflammatory applications but it can also be used to treat things with iron imbalance, such as neurodegenerative disorders, including Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.

CO: Well, that's just extraordinary!

SMS: Yeah!

CO: I understand initially when you started the research, though, you... you know of it from your own culture that you were skeptical about the properties and what they could do for people, right?

SMS: Yes, that's right. I was skeptical at the beginning of the research, primarily because Samoan traditional medicine is very young. When I went to do the research, I understood that traditional Chinese medicine and Arabic medicine have made significant contributions to the world of pharmaceuticals. But those medicines were, in my opinion, a lot older than Samoan traditional medicine. But I think in the end of my research, I had to eat my own words and admit that there is great potential in Samoan traditional medicine.

CO: And when you say young, are we talking... we're not talking about decades. We're talking about centuries, right?

SMS: Yes, I'm talking about centuries.

CO: [chuckling] OK. So proven... proven in many respects. How did... how did you first encounter it? Do you remember when you first encountered this plant and this drug?

SMS: So my first encounter with matalafi is a superstitious one. Matalafi here in Samoa is regarded as a medicinal plant that is the go-to for when people talk about illnesses that are attributable to bad spirits and ghosts. And in Samoan, the name translates to "it hides from sight". When people say they're going out to look for matalafi, the plant will hide from the people who are looking for it.

CO: Wow! What does it look like, this plant, matalafi?

SMS: Matalafi looks a lot like a coffee plant. And it's sometimes referred to as wild coffee.

CO: And does it hide from sight?

SMS: [chuckling] I… no, I haven't had that experience, no.

CO: [both chuckle] You've been able to find it.

SMS: Yes.

CO: And... and so, when you set out to study it, what kind of reaction did you get from traditional healers?

SMS: Oh, I got mixed reactions from traditional healers. I had traditional healers who were not supportive of my research, who did not want their bread and butter to be put under the microscope in a sense. But I also had traditional healers who were very progressive in the way that they thought. They wanted to have science prove that their traditional medicine is working. So those traditional healers were more supportive and forthcoming, and they were keen to share their traditional knowledge with me. And they even gave me support in terms of looking and finding the plants that I needed.

CO: It's so interesting this tension between these two worlds of medicine, right? Traditional medicines from... they're hundreds or thousands of years old and modern medicine that has only recently become less skeptical of traditional medicine. As both a Samoan and a scientist, how do you reconcile that?

SMS: I think there is no doubt that traditional medicine has made contributions to our current and our modern pharmaceutical agents. So there is scientific merit to believing in traditional medicines. That the key thing, though, as a scientist, is that we need to investigate these activities and these medicinal plants and traditional medicines so that we can actually prove and bring out the pure compounds that are beneficial for the human body.

CO: How were you able to test your thesis about the properties and what they can do for people for all kinds of things, and especially the Alzheimer's and Parkinson's?

SMS: So there's still more research to be done. Our research so far has only investigated the anti-inflammatory activity of matalafi. But from that research, we've made educated extrapolations of our data. And so we need to research in models of… of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, whether our matalafi would be able to be used to treat the iron imbalance within these conditions. And for an iron-chelating activity, which is what matalafi has, we have potential to apply matalafi or the compounds within matalafi to conditions that have overload of iron. Some cancers has been shown to have increased growth because of high iron. And so, we can use matalafi to control the iron environment within cancers and subsequently limit the growth of these cancers.

CO: How important do you think it is that this research into this plant and this study are going to be publishing next week, this work was done by Indigenous scientists. How important was that?

SMS: I think it is hugely important. So this work was actually initiated by the Samoan government because we were seeing a lot of people who were coming in from outside becoming experts in things that are Samoan and things that are traditional. And we were seeing a trend where we were getting scientists from overseas coming in to study our traditional medicine. And our government wanted to see Samoan scientists leading these researchers into Samoan traditional medicine. And that was where my research project and I came in. And I think it is hugely important that Indigenous people are strongly involved in research that goes on with their traditional knowledge and with their traditional medicine.

CO: Do you have concerns that using this plant, if it's to be harvested for this kind of medicine on a wide scale, let's say, that the plant itself could be damaged, the environment of the plant can be damaged, or is there a way to artificially create it?

SMS: I think there is potential for us to go the synthetic route, so we can rely on synthetic chemistry to come up with compounds that they can make in the laboratories. When I collected my plants for my research, I ensured that I was using the leaves because leaves are things that plants can keep growing. Instead of using roots or the bark, for example, which once you harvest, it can significantly endanger the well... the wellbeing of the plant.

CO: All very interesting. And I look forward to seeing what else you do with this research. Seeseei, thank you.

SMS: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

SMS: Bye.

CH: Seeseei Molimau-Samasoni is a scientist with the Scientific Research Organisation of Samoa and the lead author of a new study on the matalafi plant. We reached her in Apia, Samoa. And you can see photos and read more about that story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[Music: Banjo]

FOA: Pegasus Technology

CH: They found a way to turn your phone into a listening device -- bugging your calls, reading your texts, even secretly recording videos and taking photos. And it was allegedly used by the likes of Saudi Arabia, The United Arab Emirates, and Hungary to peep on journalists, activists, and politicians. Now, the Biden administration has black-listed the Israeli hackers-for-hire behind the powerful spyware known as Pegasus -- barring them from buying the technical components they need from the US. Amnesty International and the non-profit journalism organization Forbidden Stories identified a target list of thousands of people who were bugged with Pegasus technology. Azerbaijani investigative journalist Khadija Ismayilova was one of them.

SOUNDCLIP

KI: Everything you do in and out of the phone, near the phone, is being surveilled, is being recorded, is being monitored. It was really gross. When I learned that family members were also included as targets, and when I learned that close friends are there, the taxi driver who was regular in service, he was there. And I was devastated. It's like... you feel like you have to wear the sign, "I'm dangerous," so people don't get close to you. If they get close to you, they will be endangered as well.

SB: Do you feel your sources may be endangered because of this?

KI: Well, of course, the sources are endangered. And, of course, I am endangered. My family members are endangered. The sources whom I am talking to are endangered. Yes, everyone is endangered. And people should... it's good that people know about it. And it's very graceful of them to... not to be angry with me for that. But still, I'm feeling guilty because it's me who is making them... making some of them targets.

SB: Has all of this limited your ability to do your job?

KI: Of course it does. Of course, it does. And I guess lots of people who would like to pass information. They will... they will restrain themselves. They will restrict themselves from... refrain from doing that. They will not contact. They will not get in touch. Our work is based on trust. And this trust is broken not for... because of me. This trust is broken because the government has broken into my life. And it's... it will take time to develop a new strategy on how to get in touch with sources and people who are a valuable source of information.

CH: Azerbaijani investigative journalist Khadija Ismayilova speaking with guest host Susan Bonner in July.

[Music: Uke!!!]

Reading: Miriam Toews

CH: Oftentimes, an author's work gets less autobiographical the longer they write. But in the case of Canadian writer Miriam Toews' eighth novel, the parallels are as strong as ever. Fight Night is the story of nine-year-old Swiv, who lives with her pregnant mother, and her grandmother, Elvira -- a character inspired by Toews' own mother, who shares her name. Both the character Elvira and the real-life Elvira have lost a husband and a daughter to suicide. And in spite of that, both have held their families together, and then some. Fight Night is on the shortlist for the Scotiabank Giller Prize -- and the prize jury says the book isn't just about togetherness. It's about grit, humour, exuberance and love. And to read it is to become, quote, "wholly enamoured with its cast of characters." As in this passage, read by its author, Miriam Toews.

Reading:

MIRIAM TOEWS: I woke up in San Francisco. Grandma was saying, Honey, Honey in a quiet voice. We're here, Honey. In Fresno? I said. I was confused. In San Fran, said Grandma, she called it San Fran or SF or Cisco or Frisco. We're going to have to hoof it if we want to make our connection. Everybody was standing, waiting to get off the plane. They were all peering down at me in my seat like I was a brand new species they'd just discovered. The flight attendant was calling out numbers and gates. We had to run. The flight attendant made her way through all the people in the aisle and came to talk with us. She said grandma's wheelchair was waiting for her at the top of the ramp. Could she walk that far? I shook my head. Grandma said, for heaven's sake, of course I can! She was pushing through the people in the aisle. She was making jokes. Don Quixote and Sancho Panza coming through. The flight attendant had already taken her little suitcases from the overhead bin and had brought them to the front. People patted us on our backs and said, good luck. Say hi to Lou and Ken. Enjoy the raisins. Grandma had been talking to everyone on the plane while I was sleeping. She raised her hand. Keep on trucking fellow travellers, she said. Bye Swiv, said the two ladies I'd never seen in my life. Take good care of Grandma. I was afraid they'd say, good luck with the bowel movement. Finally, we got to the door of the plane. The flight attendant pulled our little suitcases up the ramp and I got behind Grandma and I pushed. I thought she was going to fall over backwards on top of me. I really had to lean into it the way mom takes up the whole sidewalk, pushing against buildings for exercise when we're on our walks. Grandma said, Swiv, do you have my red purse? I didn't have her red purse. A man was running behind me, waving grandma's red purse. I've got it, he said. I was still pushing Grandma. He put it around my arm. I said, Thank you. Grandma was laughing. The man said he'd emailed Grandma. Yes, do. She was trying to tell him her email address. I've got it, I've got it, he said. She was huffing and puffing. Let's hope we meet in the playoffs, said the man. Well, we'll just see what happens, said Grandma. Trade deadline should be interesting. Playoffs are around the corner, said the man. I've got tickets for Game 7 against the Nets said Grandma. You do? I asked. Surprise! Said Grandma. Good seats, too. Not the nose bleeders. The man hugged Grandma while I was pushing her. He told me to have fun in Cali. Life is too short for old people to say the full names of places. Grandma was waving over her shoulder, gasping for air. Who is that? I said, no idea, said Grandma. We reached the wheelchair finally, and Grandma sat down and I piled the little suitcases on top of her and the flight attendant pointed in the direction of the gate we were supposed to run to. Do you want your spray? I said, No, no, said, Grandma, let's just go! Shake a leg!

CH: Miriam Toews, reading from her Giller Prize-nominated novel, Fight Night. The winner of the 100,000 dollar award will be announced on Monday on CBC Radio One. For more information on all the contenders -- and how to listen -- visit: www.cbcbooks.ca.

[Music: Instrumental]

Archives: Moose Stories

CH: When news emerged of a moose on the loose in a Saskatoon school yesterday, people had a lot of questions. Was the moose OK? Were the kids OK? Yes, and yes. How did it get there? How did it get out? Through a window and under heavy sedation. But as soon as you heard, some of you had another burning question: does As It Happens know? And for that, we thank you. These are precisely the kinds of stories we're always hunting for. After all, they've brought us considerable amoosement over the years. Like in 1988, when Carol Ann Denis told Michael Enright about the time a moose gave her Ottawa-area family a rather rude awakening.

SOUNDCLIP

CAROL ANN DENIS: The Gloucester Police Department rang our front doorbell and asked my husband to remove our dog from the backyard. There was something in our backyard. My husband asked, well, what is in our backyard? And he says, you have a moose in your pool. And my husband didn't believe him, but he went out anyways. So he did go out. And then he came back in and confirmed to me, yes, there is a moose in our backyard and come and see.

MICHAEL ENRIGHT: What did you think of when he told you that?

CAD: Well, I thought he was still dreaming. Or maybe I was.

ME: [laughing] Now, you've got a fence around it, right?

CAD: Yes, we do. He jumped the fence from our neighbour's yard.

ME: Holy cats!

CAD: And he jumped straight right into the pool in the deep end. So he was having a nice swim there.

ME: Was he doing a moose crawl or what? [CAD chuckle] OK, so it's now what? About 6:30 in the morning?

CAD: That's right.

ME: What happened then? Did the firemen come?

CAD: The fire department, the police department, the environment department, some departments from the government I don't even know.

ME: [chuckle] How many people did you have in your house?

CAD: It was the backyard. Thank God I've got a large backyard, but we had more than 500 people back there and around our backyard.

ME: Wait a minute, you said 500?

CAD: Oh yes, at least that much, at least.

ME: So, how did they go about getting the moose out of the pool?

CAD: Well, they used... it took a long time because they had to drain the pool. And they used tranquillizers. And until it worked, it took about four. So it was about three hours before they could get him down to sleep, you know, hard enough that the fire department could go right down and get him. And they raised him out with a crane. I still can't believe it.

ME: Did the kids go to school today?

CAD: They went in the afternoon.

ME: Boy, did they have a show and tell!

CAD: Really, they did.

CH: Carol Ann Denis, speaking with Michael Enright about the time a moose took a dip in her family's backyard pool in 1988. Like conservation officers in Saskatchewan this week, officials there used tranquillizers to relocate the animal. But had they asked another As It Happens guest, he might have been able to offer a simpler method. In 2012, Kevin Deschaine spoke with As It Happens guest host Dave Seglins from Madawaska, Maine, about being named the world champion of moose calling.

SOUNDCLIP

KEVIN DESCHAINE: I mean, anybody can call a moose. It's just getting the right moose in the right mood when he's right... right in the prime rut, you know what I mean?

DAVE SEGLINS: In the right mood?

KD: In the right mood, yeah. You can call a Moose. They'll look at you all they want most of the time. But if you get them in that right mood when it's time for mating, you can call them right... right to you.

DS: OK, you have to fill in our imaginations here. We obviously want to hear you do some moose calls. Can you give us a demonstration?

KD: Yes. I don't know how it's going to sound over the phone, but I'll give it a try.

DS: OK.

KD: I'm going to give you a cow in heat call.

[Sound: This is a cow in heat, but it sounds like a fart]

KD: Now I'm going to give you a bull that response... responds to the cow.

[Sound: This sounds like a cough… or a dry-heave]

KD: That’s pretty much what... what the bull sounds like.

DS: [laughing] Oh my! OK, give us a scenario where you would use this.

KD: Well, if you're in a hunting situation, the best thing to do is probably start off as your cow call, you know, just to locate a bull. So you just sit there and you do a cow call for a few minutes. You listen, you listen. If you get a response, you’re going to hear the bull grunting [does the grunt], you know, far off in the distance. That means a bull herd you and he's interested. Now, if he's not coming in, you might want to take... like, some people use canoe paddles. I use actual moose antlers. And I use them for rattling and I use them for raking on the branches. And imitates another bull. And he's saying, I want that girl, you know, I want that moose.

DS: I've never heard anything like it. Could you... could you do it again?

KD: Yeah.

[Sound: The fart call again]

DS: Wow.

CH: [chuckling] Kevin Deschaine, showing As It Happens, guest host Dave Seglins how to attract a moose in 2012. I'm not sure whether Dave has managed to use that information since? Mary Winchenbach, meanwhile, is happy to get her moose coming or going. But especially going. Ms. Winchenbach is a crafter whose business "Tirdy Works" sells moose poop products. In 2018, she told Carol it's a bull market. But first, a warning: This clip does contain some dirty language.

SOUNDCLIP

MARY WINCHENBACK: Well today, I'm assembling my turds because tonight, at 7:00 o'clock, I’ve got a stand-up comedy act. We've got wicked orders for the poo poo clocks, and so we've got people all over the place assembling turds for us, you know, and helping getting them ready. I'm talking to over 400 clocks.

CO: All right, so a lot of things I want to unpack here. What are poo poo clocks?

MW: Well, the poo poo clock, instead of a coo coo, it's a poo poo clock. And we put the turds in between the numbers. So it reads one-turdy, two-turdy, three-turdy. And we're working on incorporating a machine, so when it strikes that it goes [sound: a fart noise].

CO: All right, and that's a hot item right now? They’re just flying off the shelves?

MW: Absolutely, yeah.

CO: OK. What else have you got there?

MW: Well, we've got fecal people. And depending upon the shape of the middle turds right there, we can do them with big boobs, and guts, and butts, and long legs and short legs — because no two turds are alike. Yeah, we got that. And then another big item we have is the dingleberries. See we got dingleberries with bells, and we got them with balls. We got green balls, red balls and we got the blue balls. And those are good for putting on the Christmas tree because you can never have enough crap hanging off the tree. Or you put it on the rear-view mirror of vehicle, so you take a corner and you got that turd just a slinging all around the place.

CO: Okay, now where did you get the idea to turn poo into gold?

MW: Oh, I saw the turds one day you know walking in the woods. Of course, I've always seen them, but I get to thinking one day wouldn’t that be funny to add a set of eyeballs on it, you know? And you could call it like a little shithead thing. So we did that, and then the product line has just been expanding and expanding, and developing new products and stuff. And we'll sit around at night and drink a beer or something and start coming up with some stupid names for turds. And it's just funny, so we just keep going with it, you know?

CO: I understand you got your latest is forest dump?

MW: Yes, forest dump. And we're going to put a turd there with a shrimp — you know and a couple little fake trees.

CO: All right. And speaking of forests, this is where you collect your materials in the woods, right?

MW: Correct. We get them probably within a mile and a half two miles from the house. Usually, we'll get 100 to 150 pounds of turds every time we go out into the woods. they take a dump two or three times a day. And every time they take a crap, they’ll scrap out probably 300 to 400 turds every time. And you know we sell the turds for five dollars and up. So I guess like ching, ching. I get to jumping right up and down every time I find a pile of crap in the woods. It's like we see the turds coming out of the butt, and it’s it's like five, 10, 15, 20, 25. Yeah.

CH: "Tirdy Works" owner, Mary Winchenbach, speaking with Carol about her moose poop business in October, 2018 from Somerville, Maine.

[Music: Instrumental]

Vancouver Double Rainbow

CH: Sometimes, the pot of gold is the rainbow. Especially when there are two. Yesterday, Vancouverites found themselves looking at a breathtaking double-rainbow that stretched across the sky. It was a welcome reward after a week of Raincouver weather. Which is why people welcomed it with open eyes. Here's some of that reaction.

SOUNDCLIP

WOMAN: Look at the ring. Oh my god!

WOMAN #2: Wow! Thanks, mother nature. My God, this is really healing today

GLORIA MACARENKO: Take a look out the window before you take a seat, Lisa, because it is dramatic. Dark, dark sky. The sun is very, very low on the horizon. We can't see the sun. We are looking sort of toward the North Shore Mountains, toward the northeast from our studio. Look at those buildings that is spectacular.

LISA CHRISTIANSEN: That is like magic. It looks like a magical kingdom out there. Maybe it is. Vancouver the magical kingdom!

GM: Yes, it is. The magical kingdom of Vancouver.

LC: Yes!

GM: We’re very, very distracted looking at the rainbow shots. I tried to take a photograph of the end of the rainbow. I've never seen something so bold and gorgeous and intense.

LC: Ross just said it's the best rainbow he's ever seen, and I'm going to have to agree with Ross. It is the best rainbow. I mean, I've never seen the end of a rainbow like that.

CH: A few rainbow watchers - including CBC Radio's On the Coast host Gloria Macarenko and Traffic reporter Lisa Christiansen welcoming the bright rainbow that filled sky in Vancouver -- as everyone now prepares for a forecasted week of rain.

[Music: Lullaby]

George Harrison Home For Sale

CH: It's as true now as it was when The Beatles first put the sentiment to music: you can't buy me love. But you can buy me George Harrison's childhood home, which I might love, despite the commute from Liverpool. According to the auction house conducting the sale, George Harrison lived in the home from ages six to 18. Which is to say, his larval period as a proto-Beatle took place in the terraced three-bedroom. It's where he lived when he met Paul McCartney on the bus to school. Where he first learned guitar. And it's where Harrison and McCartney would meet with John Lennon to rehearse as The Quarrymen, the band that would later metamorphosize into The Beatles. Possibly to the chagrin of the neighbours, given the house shares walls on either side. Which might be why it's expected to go for the very reasonable-sounding price of 300,000-ish dollars. Also on the auction block: a 1962 letter from manager Brian Epstein turning down an offer from Decca Records, claiming the band was going with another label -- even though the rejection letter pre-dates any other offers. Seems Mr. Epstein may have been holding a grudge against label execs who had turned the band down the previous month saying, quote, "guitar groups are on the way out" and "the Beatles have no future in show business".

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November 5, 2021 Episode Transcript

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