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The Loop Transcript for October 20, 2021

Hosts: Clare Bonnyman, Min Dhariwal

CLARE BONNYMAN: Hey, I'm Clare Bonnyman, and

MIN DHARIWAL: I'm Min Dhariwal

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: And welcome to a special Wednesday edition of The Loop.

[Music: Theme]

Prologue

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Well, happy not Friday. We're coming to you a little early this week with a post election reflection. Min, how is my inflexion?

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Nailed it. [laughter] I liked it.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Well, we're going to recap the Monday that was. It's Tuesday morning as we were recording this because Edmonton voted. Good job, guys.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Yeah.They got through it right.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: The unofficial results are in. Amarjeet Sohi, he is the mayor elect of Edmonton. He won with 45 percent of the vote. With Mike Nickel, the next closest candidate had 25 percent of the vote. So we're looking at a pretty different council waking up this morning, a number of races that were insanely tight.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Yes.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Which was pretty cool to see, some things confirmed later this week. Next week, we'll also get the results of the referendum in terms of daylight savings time and of course, equalisation.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Yes.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: But it just goes to show you. It was a really entertaining and close election, and as the dust settles, it seems like Edmontonians are pretty happy with some of the changes. I think.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Yeah, they certainly are. I mean, you know, a lot of talk coming from both Edmonton, Calgary, electing Punjabi/Sikh mayors.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Yeah.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: First, first for our city. I know I used a few, you know, Punjabi, you know, emojis and gifs and things of that like. So I mean, it's exciting. That's never happened in my lifetime here so, we were certainly talking about it amongst my friends. And you know, Jyoti Gondek, first female mayor down in Calgary, that's huge as well. But even here in our city, you know, gender wise, we're looking at a female led council, which is a first.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Definitely.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Eight women elected to City Council, four men. Jennifer Rice and Keren Tang have become the first two women of colour to sit as city councillors in Edmonton, lots of shake ups as well to speak of Tony Caterina, Jon Dziadyk and Mo Bhanga all losing their seats on council to new female candidates. And, of course, Edmonton also voted on a couple of referendums. But we won't know about the Daylight Savings Time or equalisation decisions until October 26, when elections can..., or at least Alberta reports.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Yeah. And Min I mean, you were actually here at the station watching it all unfold. The magic...

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Yes.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Of election night.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Downstaurs, upstairs.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: What did you think about the evening from where you sat?

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Well, you know what I was... I was actually surprised at how fast the calls for mayor happened.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: It was quick.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: It was fast, and so Calgary did it first. I think Jyoti was acclaimed first. She might have beat out Amarjeet by a couple of minutes.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Yeah, because it's like 8:30. We heard Jyoti and then like very quickly after [laughter].

MIN DHAR-WAIL: It may have been even earlier than that. But yeah, I mean, I think it was... it was only eight voting stations had been tabulated, so it did come pretty quick. So that was a big surprise for me. I mean, of course, the gender parity amongst councillors caught me by surprise, but I think that's because, you know, the number was so big. But I mean, the talk had certainly been there like...

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Yeah.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: We've been talking about it. I think even previous elections, so not a surprise to see it produce some, some new members there in council. So I think it's great for council. A great day for the city, for young girls and women throughout Alberta, outside of Alberta. And I think we'll start seeing that change happen in future elections, right? I mean, I think that inspired a lot of people.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Definitely.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: So, you know, it was a little bit disappointing that there was only two women of colour. But I think, you know, as mentioned, the groundwork has been set and we could see a change in that down the road for sure. And you know, I also... my kids, they're on PD day. So they were up actually when I got home. And you know, when a 15 year old, the 12 year old run up to you and go, Wow, you know, Sohi won.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Yeah.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: You know, inside I was so happy to see that. Right? That they're engaged at that age and to see that. I mean, that's something I never experienced. So that's something they're experiencing at a young age and who knows what kind of impact that's going to have on them.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Definitely.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Moving forward and whether it'll inspire them to maybe jump into public office or feel that they have a shot.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Could have a future mayor on your hands.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Hey...

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Mayor Dhariwal...

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Well, you never know, right? Who knows, as long as it benefits me a little bit.

The Young Vote: Final Thoughts

Guests: Anika Zepp, Shane Scott and Dylan Schoonover

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: OK, well, we wanted to do a kind of post-election debrief and it wouldn't be a full one without some of our 'the young vote' panellists. So joining us for one last conversation is Shane Scott, a public servant. Dylan Schoonover, who works for an Edmonton post-secondary and Anika Zepp, vice president of Edmonton's NextGen. Welcome back, everybody.

ANIKA ZEPP: Thanks for having us.

SHANE SCOTT: Yeah thanks so much.

DYLAN SCHOONOVER: Thank you.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Anika, I wanted to start with you because we talked to you back in September. A lot has happened. So what do you think of our new mayor elect?

ANIKA ZEPP: I'm excited for Edmonton! I think Mayor elect, Sohi will hopefully work to unite Edmontonians, at least that, that was one of the promises made. I did not vote for him myself, but I am not upset about his election, so I feel fine about it. I think our council as a whole is extremely progressive. I hope that the prosperity of our city remains a central focus. Inclusion is also important and I super support those values. But I do think that our city is at a point where our financial recovery needs to also be centre point. So, I probably answered your next three questions, there as well but...

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: A little bit but, we'll dig more into the council and what that looks like, but I'm curious, even just looking at the mayor elect because we did just elect someone that's going to bring us forward and be the face of the city. Shane, what do you think?

SHANE SCOTT: Yeah, I think going into the night last night waiting for the election results, I didn't know what to expect. I truly thought it could go any, any direction. I actually think I was a little surprised with the lead that Sohi ended up having over Nickel and even, I think how far behind some of the other candidates were. I thought that was kind of surprising and Edmonton's in a really good place and I'm excited to see, you know, this is now where the rubber hits the road. How do we transition from that kind of election stage of, you know, I have these great ideas and I want to lead the city in the future, to actually doing it? Yeah, it's interesting to see what the next chapter is going to be and how we also get all the pieces of various levels of democracy to line up and actually work for Edmonton, I think will also be interesting to see.

DYLAN SCHOONOVER: Yeah, I think, yeah, I'm in the same kind of boat as Anika, where I didn't vote for Amarjeet, but I am not disappointed that he is our new mayor. I think that he is truly just like a kind, decent person, which I think we need more of, involved in politics, no matter where you sit on the political spectrum. And I think that empathy and understanding will serve him well as we navigate the post COVID recovery. And I think that his council experience, combined with his time as a federal minister, will give him the experience to kind of change that hit the ground running and he'll be comfortable speaking on the national stage and really giving Edmonton the voice that we deserve in those national conversations.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Interesting that you should bring that up, Dylan. That is part of my question. I mean, how do you guys feel about his experience? You know, we're talking about a guy who's a former bus driver, longtime counsellor at the federal level, was not just at parliament, but he was a cabinet minister in charge of infrastructure. He still has connections to the federal party. How do you think those experiences will help benefit Edmonton?

ANIKA ZEPP: I think it will lend well, and for me, a big factor was the ability to play nice with others, especially for the mayor, right? Because as you've outlined, they are going to be working with other levels of government. Many business people as well as everyday Edmontonians. So I think that that collaborative nature is essential and I think that Amarjeet has lived and walked in a lot of shoes and paths in his life. And I think that that's never a bad thing when it comes to understanding both diversity from a personal experience perspective. But I think it also increases an awareness that it is very different for very different people. So once you've lived even in a couple of those very different paths of life, I think you even understand that all those ones you haven't lived must be very different rather than if you've only lived in one, for example. Unfortunately, I think the ballots included some provincial questions that turned the municipal election into feeling a little bit like a provincial one as well. And a lot of folks I've talked to very anecdotally, no real pollster data here, but that kind of put a sour taste in their mouth and made them feel like the municipal election was more partisan than it needed to be. And I hope that this council and mayor Sohi are able to kind of leave that behind and just look forward and collaborate with those levels because our provincial and our federal government are set in very different arenas right now. But what we need is what's best for our city.

SHANE SCOTT: Yeah, yeah. I got a lot of that sentiment. I think that was another factor for myself as well, was thinking about the larger political picture and how Edmonton's going to fit into that. And I said in the last podcast, you know, one of my concerns was, I think that Don Iveson had provided a lot of leadership on the national stage for the city of Edmonton and kind of gave us that level of brand recognition. And I think we needed someone who could go out there and carry that in some way. And I think there is great potential with Sohi to be able to do that. I think in terms of, kind of the story of Sohi overall, in many ways Sohi has the dream kind of story of a candidate. Coming... starting from the bottom sort of thing, working his way up. And so I think that in itself is also very inspirational. And, you know, a lot of people commented on that immediately after they, kind of called the election. Like, I can't believe the bus driver is running the city, which I think is pretty neat, kind of inspirational.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: And allows them to be relatable right? To a lot of people. This guy knows what nine to five or shift work or starting from the bottom is all about.

SHANE SCOTT: Yeah. And I think to and from a public service perspective, like one of the biggest issues in public policy is the people who make the decisions are so disconnected from frontline service workers who've never had that experience. And so I think from a city perspective, it's really useful to be able to have that even if it's been years now. And he's had so many x number of years of political experience in the middle, like he still has that kind of grounding in punching in, punching out every day, understanding what it's like to work in the city. And particularly as the mayor who I think does have a part to play in setting the culture of the kind of corporate side of the city to some extent and working with the senior leadership to ensure and [inaudible] had kind of its qualms in the past with its kind of corporate culture. So I think having that experience at that very high leadership level will be really neat.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: With this election, do you think it reflected the young voters of our city?

DYLAN SCHOONOVER: Yeah, I think so. I think. I don't know the exact data off the top of my head, but I think the average age of council decreased significantly overnight as a result of the election. I think we have now eight female councillors, up from two, and we have four BIPOC members of council now, which is... and I think, two women of colour, which would be the first two ever just sit on City Council. So I think maybe council is not quite representative of Edmonton, but I think it's definitely trending a lot more in that direction. And I think it looks a lot more like Edmonton than any previous council ever has.

SHANE SCOTT: Yeah, yeah. I think in terms of the actual makeup of the council, it was really exciting to see, especially the gender representation in this council. I know there's a lot of people who have been doing a lot of groundwork to try and encourage women to run in this election. So I think it's really exciting to see that that's paying off. In many ways I think this election was, I think, at least a pushback from kind of that like... I mean mentioned before, I feel like it's like the Chicken Little, like the sky is falling sort of rhetoric, where Alberta is like this doom place. And I think the rest of Canada, especially during COVID, has been looking at us with like again, it almost like a backwards land, you know, like we're the Texas of Canada or whatever. And I think this represents the opposite of that and how I think Edmontonians actually see ourselves and the story we want to tell, which is really exciting. The people that were elected, I think, do represent a lot of the causes, I know that I'm really passionate about and that I care about a lot of the issues and I think pushed back at those people who were a bit more quick to claim that the sky was falling.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: I texted some friends in the WhatsApp group who are from Toronto. There was a lot of head exploding emojis when I told them two Punjabi mayors are in Calgary and Edmonton now and they could not believe it. They're like, You're still in Alberta, right? I go, Yeah, I'm still in Alberta.

ANIKA ZEPP: Oh, it's evidence that young voters showed up. I don't think that we would be looking at a council we're looking at if they didn't. This council is very progressive. A lot of the candidates, if you were to kind of typecast them into a spot on the political spectrum, many of them would lean quite left, which has been typically where a lot of the younger voters have been voting. Unfortunately, we get painted with this brush. I'm definitely kind of smack dab in the middle of millennial, not really the Gen Z portion of that 18 to 40 is a huge, huge bucket. But the reality is, is that like 30 to 40, I think maybe five or 10 years ago would have voted a lot differently in that 30 to 40 year olds voted in this election. And I think that that's sort of the indicator of the tides changing based on what I've heard from a lot of folks, a lot of the priorities that a lot of my peers have had were with a lot of the candidates that got elected that were a lot more about inclusion and a space for everyone and an inspirational future and being able to also represent Edmonton as a progressive city. Edmonton is the Austin of Texas, and I think they have better barbecue in Austin.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Yeah, yeah, hands down.

[laughter]

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Challenge thrown.

ANIKA ZEPP: If any one wants to get me food to prove me wrong I'll take it.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Yeah, the foodies might disagree but, you never know.

ANIKA ZEPP: But I do think that the results show that young people showed up, and I saw a lot of them also really volunteering and to see so many people stepping up and doing that and volunteering for candidates that aligned with them. Win or lose, I think that that's fantastic and it really shows the shift in demographic our city has compared to 15 or 20 years ago.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: I do want to take a bit of a critical eye to this new council because I think it was one analyst, Najib Jutt, said last night that kind of, the diversity vote this time went to white women, not necessarily more racial diversity, that kind of thing. Shane, we've talked about diversity and intersections and things like that. What's your take on this new council that we're looking at? And maybe what voices aren't being as represented?

SHANE SCOTT: Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, A cause that's close to my heart is like representation from gender, and sexually diverse, folks. And I think there was a few candidates that had self-identified as queer or kind of as part of the community or at least really strong supporters and many of them. And I think not all of them have not... We're not elected to their positions, which was really disappointing to see. I was hoping to see some representation from the queer community. There is... there's still space to grow in terms of racial diversity. I think representing Edmonton itself has so many, like rich cultural communities that I feel like you could hope to see those represented on council and I don't know if they necessarily are. Like Dylan said it's like we're moving in the right direction. But I don't know necessarily... And I think also diversity is never going to be like a check the box look, we did it, like we... it is accomplished, we climbed the diversity mountain... Everyone's represented like it will never actually come down to that. I think what's important is that people are continuing, even post-election to advocate on behalf of the causes that are important to them. You know, just because there's no openly Trans Council member doesn't mean that we shouldn't be talking about trans issues. And there's still space to have those conversations and for this current council to champion it. And so I hope that we keep pushing and that they kind of pick up arms for those other issues too.

ANIKA ZEPP: I agree we're never going to have a council that is perfectly... represents the diversity and intersections of our society, one for one, but I think something really important is to have council members who can identify where their biases or their privileges may be and to reach out to the members of their communities that are able to speak on that from a more authentic place. And I do think that our council, although they may not be perfectly diverse as per, like we said, a bunch of checkboxes. I do think that they're a very collaborative bunch and fundamentally, I actually disagree with... and that might be a controversial thing to say, but attempting to check all the boxes.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Yeah, that's fair.

ANIKA ZEPP: Because I think that it can be exclusive in its own way. You know, you look at someone like Councillor Knack and it's like, well, as a white guy, should we just disallow him the opportunity because he just checks no diversity box? He is one of the biggest champions for diversity and reaches out and is open minded and tries to hear people out. And I think that that's important. I think that the problem we've seen historically is folks who are diverse were not getting that same opportunity and we're starting to see it come in and there's more work to be done. But there's ways to bring those voices forward without sitting in one of those council seats. And I think that this council will do that.

SHANE SCOTT: Just because you represent a [inaudible] community doesn't mean you're necessarily bringing the best perspective to council or you'll be the best person for council. So it's important to look at kind of the whole package and understand what lived experiences are they bringing? Is it something that's shaped by maybe their gender or race and is also shaped by their socioeconomic upbringing? Is it shaped by what part of the city they live in, what types of jobs they've had? Like, there's many aspects to that. It's one of many considerations.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Dylan, anything to add?

DYLAN SCHOONOVER: Yeah, I was going to say that Shane and Anika have both done a great job in answering the question, but I think it would have been encouraging to see at least one Black Council member elected. We've never had a black member of council. Given how much importance... Well even like a Black Lives Matter conversation and what that means for the future of police funding moving forward and having people who had those real lived experiences would have, I think, been of benefit to the council. And that doesn't mean that that conversation can't still happen and be effectively done, and you can communicate with the communities that are most affected by those decisions. But I think there were some strong candidates, and with Rhiannon Hoyle and Adrian Bruff coming to mind off the top of my head, that thought, had a good chance of being elected and to the very end and I think ended up losing by less than 60 votes... [cross talk]

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: It was like 36, I think. in Ipiihkoohkanipiaohtsi. Yeah, it was thirty six votes. Nice.

DYLAN SCHOONOVER: Yeah, which is, exactly, the every vote counts and don't stay at home because you think that it's already been decided. And I think the other thing that can happen is... this happens in organisations, maybe not necessarily with council, but when you do have diverse members of a particular community and you're dealing with issues that directly affect that community, people kind of at the table look towards them and say, Well, they're going to figure it out, they're going to solve this for us. And I think it puts an inappropriate burden on members of those communities who need to kind of take the brunt of the entire organisation and really carry that load forward, which I think is not the best way. It's about bringing people together to solve solutions together. My one concern, I guess, though, is because this is the most diverse council. And I think you saw this a little bit with Barack Obama in the US. When you have someone who's coming from a diverse community, the expectations are always so much higher than they would be for a traditional candidate. If things don't go exactly the way... If every promise isn't checked and everything isn't accomplished, they'll be like, Oh, see what? Because we changed it up, or it's because the council is more diverse and they couldn't do the job. I'm just concerned about this council being held to a higher standard than previous councils, and we need to really be aware of that and ensure that that doesn't happen because that's obviously not fair.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Yeah.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: That's a good point.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Definitely. I mean, with so many new faces on council... Anika, you already mentioned the idea of like playing nice with each other, we've thrown about the word collaboration. What has to happen? Are we prescribing trust falls? Like, what do we have to do to get everyone on the same team? Atika, what do you want to see?

ANIKA ZEPP: If I had the answer, I'd be elected, man. I don't know. [laughter]

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Fair. It's true. I'm...

ANIKA ZEPP: It's always interesting. And I found that to be interesting with the mayoral race. You know, I had a lot of at length conversations who'd be like it's ultimately one vote. But it does set the tone, doesn't it?

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Yeah.

ANIKA ZEPP: I do think that there was... and Scott McKeen pointed it out in one of the panels he was on last night, that there was really some certain voting blocs that were on our last council that seemed to have been pretty much dissolved per the election. And to see whether that moves forward as one cohesive unit or not, I don't know. I kind of hope it doesn't, because if the whole council just agrees on everything and every vote is going through unanimously, there is no way... Amarjeet got a ton of the vote share, but he got forty five percent. Fifty five percent of people voted for someone else.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Yeah.

ANIKA ZEPP: I hope they all find their own footing with it. And it's really easy to... Especially, there were some provincial parties that we're really getting behind certain candidates, and I hope people don't start to kind of party cast themselves and and make these big voting blocs and then just decide that they're toeing a certain line because the unique perspectives of the various wards within our city are so important. And somebody said about Anne Stevenson to me, this: she only cares about downtown. I said, Well, that is where she is running. So as a former resident of Downtown, I moved like two weeks ago. That was pretty important to me. And as someone who still respects and values our downtown and thinks it's important for the future of our city, I think it's excellent that they're going to have someone on council who's going to say, but downtown, every councillor should be that champion for their respective wards. Otherwise, why would we have one from each ward?

DYLAN SCHOONOVER: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's about, OK, you promised all of these things in your campaign platform. You're going to do everything for everyone and you're going to make your community the best community that has ever existed in Edmonton. But I think municipal politics is a lot of horse trading between councillors where there's only so much money to go around, there's only so much the city can do. And so now it's about all of these candidates kind of bringing these big grand visions into the same room and seeing, OK, well, I can do this and this, but then I'm going to need to support this other person to do something in their ward in order to make something happen in my ward. And how does that play out kind of over the next four years, especially with so many new councillors who may be not used to having to work in that collaborative manner? I think Amarjeet seems to be a very collaborative person and that will go a long way, I think, in setting the tone at the top and encouraging everyone to work together in a way that will move the city forward. But I think it is going to be a really interesting dynamic moving forward, especially with some of the voting blocs that have been on campus or [laughter]... On campus, on council [group laughter] kind of disappearing during the election. I'm going to school [cross talk] So I'm always like, school is on the top of my mind.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Well, even in my head, like my, the metaphor I'm playing with is like the playground, right? Like, who is going to play nice? Who's going to be kicking the sand?

MIN DHAR-WAIL: It's new. It's new for a lot of people.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Exactly. Shane, what about you?

SHANE SCOTT: Yeah, something special about the way municipal governments work in that they are generally, for the most part, across Canada, non-partisan and most municipal governments are tied to specific geographic areas. And I think what's great about that is you do have the diverse perspectives, especially in cities like Calgary and Edmonton, that are so large. Every single time I leave downtown and I go like 20 to 30 minutes, like in any direction...

MIN DHAR-WAIL: To the boonies. [laughter]

SHANE SCOTT: Every single time, I'm like, Why is everything here so big? Like, I live like around high rises, but I go like near a box store and I'm like, Why is this Michael's like four stories tall, but only one story flat. I can't wrap my head around it. But that's just a different way of life, a different culture, a different day to day than what I experience downtown, and that's only 20 minutes away. And so I think that's one of the beauties about our system. So I think it's good to have those diverse representation, those different voices. I think in terms like what has to happen to make them play nice in the playground, there has to be a degree of coordination, I think, and not necessarily like coordinating like, here's what we're going to decide now. I think people forget that like, although like four years seems like a long time, it's actually not that long of a time when you factor in time off, around Christmas holidays, summer breaks. And then just like all the other day to day stuff, the council has to do, and no one just gets to wave their wand and have like the magic solution on their desk. And so I think early on, they have to sit down, coordinate, but still maintain that kind of... It should never be a block. There should be still healthy debate and discussion and critical eye, and they're working against the clock starting today.

[laughter]

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Yeah, we've been talking about everything that happened up here. Of course, many new councillors, new mayor, same kind of deal just south of us in Calgary, right? New councillors Jyoti Gondek voted in, South Asian woman as mayor in Calgary. I want to ask you guys what you think this says about Alberta's big cities relationship now with the province?

SHANE SCOTT: One thing that I am hopeful for and I think maybe people aren't necessarily factoring in, is that we are officially now less than two years away from the next provincial election, which for a government that does not have the best approval rating in the country is now going to start going into kind of not quite panic mode yet, but definitely like recovery mode, like they're now trying to figure out like how do we do our own brand management? How do we rebuild support? That also means, like the provincial government will be less likely to want to piss off every municipality in the province. And so I think in that way, it actually gives the big cities and [inaudible] cities as well a bit of a break in that the province is going to be wanting to work with them to kind of get things done. I think there'll be pressure kind of coming from the municipalities and hopefully from the federal level down as well to start moving on projects. So I think that will bode well for us.

ANIKA ZEPP: Yeah, I think really four years is not a lot of time, especially once you factor how long it takes everyone to get in and get organised and then also take into account that once you're into approaching election, our council wasn't doing anything too wild for the last eight or nine months in Edmonton, and I'm not too sure about the specifics of Calgary, but things sort of switched into campaign mode. So...

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Yeah.

ANIKA ZEPP: I don't see that as a hit against them. It's just the reality of election cycles. So I do think that it is actually great that we have a brand new set of electees in Edmonton, as well as on the federal level. So two levels of government that are going to be looking forward and hopefully dreaming big and planning big, and that the provincial government, if they were to wish to stay in power, which I would assume they would, that tends to be the goal...

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Usually that works.

ANIKA ZEPP: That they would realise that they're going to have to figure out how to play with that. And I think all of the provincial parties are going to have to look at what the federal and municipal levels are planning and promising and working on as they build their provincial platforms for that upcoming election, which we should start to see come to fruition, probably even in the next year, because they are planners, those folks. I am hopeful. I hope, anyway, that this fresh election in the cities will make people perhaps a little bit less like focussing on only our provincial government as the sole source of blame or benefit for anything happening and actually look at the other changes happening on the other levels so that by the time the provincial election comes around, maybe things can be like a... my big dream is that they're balanced enough that maybe a third party creeps up in the middle, or that the rhetoric is just a little bit less toxic because it doesn't matter what side you're on, it's not fun for anyone when it gets to the levels that it's been through most of our not greatest moments, which is the last 18 months of this pandemic. It's... I'm feeling inspired!

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Anika's big dream.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: I'm hearing it. [cross talk]

ANIKA ZEPP: My dreams running off on me... possibility, they will all be friends.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Shoot for the moon land on the bus.

DYLAN SCHOONOVER: I'm interested to see if that comes to fruition. I think there'll be some personality challenges between both mayors and some members of the provincial government. I think they're... you saw a little bit of that play out when the premier and mayor elect, Sohi were both federally elected. As long as everybody can kind of put aside their personal feelings, at least for the next two years and just say this is what we need to do to build towards this post-pandemic recovery, I know Mayor Sohi's already talking about the economic recovery, which is obviously a huge focus for the provincial government and something that I think they're really going to want to push and to drive towards in order to kind of rebuild their re-election hopes. So I think there is a lot of overlap. I don't think either that during the campaign that Amarjeet and his campaign were overtly critical. I think they had obviously some criticisms on the pandemic response. But I think in Calgary you saw a lot more negativity directed towards the provincial government as a campaign strategy. And I don't think that that played out as much in Edmonton. So I'm hopeful for Edmonton.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: I know yesterday on Amarjeet's Twitter, I think it was retweeted that a 21 year old, Harnoor Kochar, and she was his director of field operations, so that might explain some of the hipness, I guess maybe that's so he kind of portrayed online. Do you think that helped him connect with the young vote?

DYLAN SCHOONOVER: Yeah, I think he had a really strong team across the board. I saw that she was the director of field operations, which is incredible for her to be that young, to be taking that senior of a position on a winning campaign for a mayoral race. Because municipal elections are incredibly difficult to win because you don't have the same shared resources that you would have in a provincial or federal election. And his digital team did do a really good job. They had some videos. I'm not... Like TikTok is the thing that makes me feel old, I don't get it like I don't use it. I was [cross talk].

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Makes you feel old!

DYLAN SCHOONOVER: So TikTok's the one thing... one of the social media platforms that I don't really get, but I see it, it comes up on Twitter and Instagram anyways. And so and even I was watching it going, oh yeah, that was really funny. That was well done. And so I think he had a natural advantage with younger voters, just kind of where he was campaigning from on the political spectrum.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Right.

DYLAN SCHOONOVER: But also, he did put a really strong team together. And so kudos to all of them for coming together cohesively to create a really strong brand because campaigning during COVID is something that no one has really done in the municipal level yet. Like to be able to put together this effective of a campaign and to get what he ended up with forty five percent of the votes. I'm sure that's a relatively strong turnout for what they were expecting.

ANIKA ZEPP: I saw very little from Amarjeet, actually. I don't know what might... I just didn't say his name enough around my phone.

[cross talk: word of agreement from Min and Clare]

ANIKA ZEPP: I don't know what to blame it on...

MIN DHAR-WAIL: It's possible.

ANIKA ZEPP: But I do think that we saw there were what felt like three pretty centrist candidates. I mean, one of the big benefits for Amarjeet was that he really seemed like. The unified progressive candidate, and I don't know how much of it is to thank on social media, if I were doing just a general, how many signs I saw. He wouldn't have won. I saw a million Mike Nickel signs. Let me tell ya.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Even [inaudible] signs. It seemed like they were on every bus.

ANIKA ZEPP: And at one point I was like, Are there polls? I'm really concerned for Amarjeet, he has no signs. And sure enough, apparently they don't win elections, so I've been told. A big part of it was a perfect science of him being a really likeable, respectable guy who seemed to be really a singular option for a large faction of the political spectrum with incredible name recognition. I'm actually surprised at the fact he was a Liberal MP didn't come up. I think that shows times are changing in our province. But for me to say it was the social media, I don't know.

SHANE SCOTT: Yeah, yeah, I know. Like at least specifically in regards to like him being... his kind of liberal involvement I feel like there is some aspect of just like, right place, right time in any election. And I think, you know, by the grace of God, the stars aligned that the provincial governments ratings are so low that, like their Mike Nickle's of the world coming out to say, like, well he's just like a Trudeau bestie or whatever. I would speculate that Evertonians are like, Well, I hope because there's no provincial government helping us like, we need help from some of the liberal government. Yeah, I think in terms of social media, though, yeah, it's hard to say, TikTok especially like it's such an interesting platform and a political... I'm sure there's somebody somewhere studying doing like a thesis on this.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: I hope so.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: There has to be.

SHANE SCOTT: The algorithm if TikTok is so random, like you can just kind of get like in a rut and like it takes you down like a rabbit hole where you maybe you're only getting like the same few hundred people. And like not many of his videos... none of them really went viral. Like there was a couple that had a few thousand views. There is no, like two hundred thousand view videos or anything like crazy like that, which you might expect on TikTok from someone who's putting out that much content. That being said, though TikTok is great because it puts you in front of like such random audiences. If you have ever like, liked a TikTok that has like the hashtag YEG on it, there's a chance that you'll get a political related one from Edmonton. Whereas if you're on Instagram, you're really kind of tied for the most part unless you like pop up and on someone's explore page, which like, that's not going to happen. But you kind of have an audience that is following you for a reason. And likewise on Facebook, I think a lot of candidates actually end up kind of shaping their Facebook audience specifically to be shaped to what they want it to be. I think of Nickel, for instance, who is infamously known for blocking people.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Yeah.

SHANE SCOTT: It creates like an echo chamber where you look at their social media and you're like, Oh my gosh, they have so much support because every single comment is supportive. Like, does that mean that they have kind of that organic general support? Not necessarily. It's like, that's because everyone else who would say otherwise has been removed.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Yeah.

SHANE SCOTT: Whereas to Tok, you don't have that. It's kind of random. I'm interested to see how that grows into the future. If that becomes more of a political tool, and people can figure out how to master it.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: They'll have to master it because every 12 to 19 year old seems to be on TikTok, so yeah.

SHANE SCOTT: As a twenty six year old I'm on TikTok, every single day.

[Laughter]

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Ok, I'll increase from 19 to 28. How about that?

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: I was going to say, guilty, too. Thank you, Min. Sit down.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Yeah.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Did this vote bring us closer to the Edmonton that you want to see?

ANIKA ZEPP: Oh, do I want to go first on this? Yeah, yeah, I think it did. I think not only with who won, but who ran. I think that we are seeing so many more people that appear to be empowered and passionate about this city win or lose. And I think that's incredibly important. And the best path forward is that those people all want to participate, and I think it's excellent. Yes!

DYLAN SCHOONOVER: Yeah, I agree. I think maybe council doesn't quite represent Edmonton, what Edmonton is, but I think it's definitely trending in the right direction and having voices that I think... at the table that haven't traditionally had a seat at the table is important to, I think, bring that broad, diverse perspective to the level of government that I think most affects individual citizens or you see the effects of the changes in the decisions that they're making more than probably any other level of government. It's a step in the right direction. Maybe not quite there. But yeah, I'm interested to see what they can do over the next four years. And hopefully it's a positive step for Edmonton.

SHANE SCOTT: Earlier, when Min had said he was texting some of his friends and they were saying like the blowing mind emoji or whatever about Sohi and Gondek winning, to me my friends had a very similar reaction, and during our last podcast we were talking about how like I was like in many ways, looking for like a leader who would give me a reason to say when a lot of my friends are choosing to leave and I described that like that, we were on a precipice like, I think the city could have gone one of two ways with the leadership choices that were on the table, and I think we're moving in the right direction and I think the council we elected and I think also those who weren't elected, not specifically, I'm thinking amongst the incumbents that weren't elected. I think what that says about the kind of tone changes that. Edmontonians want to see from our elected officials and I think also just from leaders in the city. I think that does bring us closer to what I think Edmonton is and who Edmontonians are. And you know, people who choose humility, who value sound judgement, who will follow codes of conduct and enforce those, hopefully. And yeah, really want to actually work towards something instead of, I think, just trying to work back. When I moved to Edmonton many years ago, that was the Edmonton I came to know is like the, there's like a billboard downtown it's like do something...

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: The most Edmonton thing you can do, yeah.

DYLAN SCHOONOVER: Yeah, yeah. And that's... I think that's where we're going, which I'm excited about.

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Awesome. Well, thank you guys all so much for sharing your thoughts with us on this post-election Tuesday. That feels very much like a Tuesday. Thank you, guys.

ANIKA ZEPP: Thanks so much.

SHANE SCOTT: Thanks again for having us.

[Music: Theme]

Credits

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: The Loop is a weekly podcast from CBC Edmonton, and our team is Min Dhariwal, Leslie Goldstone, Corey Haverstock, Christina Silva and James Evans. Our theme music is Change Your Mind by Edmonton musician Jom Comyn, and I'm Clare Bonnyman. Thank you as always for listening. There's so much more to know so you can get into the loop. Usually on Fridays, today is a special occasion, but thank you for hanging out with us a little earlier in the week. Let us know what you think. Let us know what you thought of the election. Leave us a rating or review wherever you download the show.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: Or if you want, get in touch. We have an email Theloop@CBC.ca use #TheLoopCBC on social media. Reach out to us on Twitter. I'm of course @MinDhariwal and Clare, you are @namynnob

CLARE BOO-NNYMAN: Yes, I am.

MIN DHAR-WAIL: And of course, follow the show on CBC Listen or your favourite podcasting app.

[Music: Theme]

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Transcript: The Loop October 20, 2021

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