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The AIH Transcript For October 18, 2021

[hosts]Carol Off, Chris Howden[/hosts]

CAROL Off: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

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Prologue

CH: Tonight:

CO: Out in the cold. A once-peaceful forest on the border between Poland and Belarus is now the site of a deadly international squabble -- and the migrants who are stuck there have nowhere to turn, as temperatures drop.

CH: Telltale signs of trouble. At homecoming, a Queen's University student saw misogynistic messages hung outside some houses -- and tonight, he'll tell us why he confronted the student-tenants.

CO: Secret weapons. As Americans remember their first Black Secretary of State, former Canadian Foreign Affairs Minister Bill Graham recalls his conversations with the late Colin Powell, after he made his now-infamous case for the invasion of Iraq.

CH: Creature discomforts. The city of Vernon, B.C. transfers the trademark for "Ogopogo" to eight local First Nations -- who say the popular image of an aquatic monster bears little resemblance to the sacred lake spirit it's based on.

CO: Threedom of the press. The Spanish books world is shaken by a real-life plot twist, when a reclusive female crime novelist is awarded a lucrative prize -- and three men come forward to admit they made her up, and they are she.

CH: And... chairman of the half-board. He wasn't just a surfer, he was also a philosopher and inventor. And by creating the boogie board, the late Tom Morey ensured even amateurs could have a swell time.

CH: As It Happens. The Monday edition. Radio that thanks him for getting us all on the same wavelength.

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Part 1: Poland Belarus Border, Colin Powell Obit, Spanish Literary Hoax

Poland Belarus Border

Guest: Kasia Wappa

CH: One man from Yemen says his belongings were stolen -- and that authorities pushed him from one side of the border to another nearly a dozen times. Someone else was pictured walking through the cold forest -- with one of his feet bare. And now, a seventh person is reported to have died on the eastern border of the European Union -- where the treatment of migrants has drawn condemnation from activists, leading thousands to protest in Warsaw yesterday. Kasia Wappa is a volunteer who has been helping migrants stuck at the border. We reached her in Hajnowka, near Poland's border with Belarus.

CO: KASIA, first of all, can you just describe the conditions that these people who are in the forest? What is it like? How are they living?

KASIA WAPPA: The conditions are very hard because they have to cross a big piece of wilderness. I know that the notion of wilderness is different in America and in Europe. But for us, the area of woodlands that covers the borderline between Poland and Belarus is really… [chuckle] a real wilderness, a big forest full of swamps and difficult grounds, with cold weather now, temperatures dropping below zero at night, sometimes rain with no possibility of getting dry during the day because of the humidity.

CO: And are these individuals or families? Can you describe what you're seeing?

KW: Both, you know, families with small children. This was not my case. I have never met a family, but many, many of my friends, they did. And sometimes even individuals that are complete strangers, they just don't want to travel separately, and they get together, even if one of them is Kurdish from Turkey and the other one is Iraqi, and they do not speak the same language. So it's very different. Different situations.

CO: What do they have with them? Do they have any food? Do they have any shelter they can... they can put up?

KW: If they have food or any water, this is because they brought it with them. And usually, these are very small amounts because they think that the journey that they are going to take is not very long and that they can cope with very little. They also don't want to attract attention. So very often, they have scarcely any belongings, just a little backpack, for example. If they get lost somewhere, and especially when they are pushed back to the border, so they have no food left, and they are hungry, and they have no drinking water, sometimes for many days. So some of them decide to drink water from the swamps, which gives them stomach problems. And shelter, they have no shelter. They sleep on the bare ground. I had a few situations when I went to the forest to help some refugees like, for example, not long ago, a group from Yemen. And they... I could see men that had no shoes. They were barefoot on the frozen ground and sleeping on the frozen ground just like that. So we brought them some sleeping bags, for example. Sometimes, they light a fire, but most often, they are afraid to light it because they don't want to be seen. So they have no fire; they have no possibility of warming themselves up as well. So we can see that the... the conditions are very, very hard.

CO: You just mentioned about being pushed back over the border and this is what's happening. They are ping-pong balls going back and forth.

KW: Exactly.

CO: What's going on?

KW: So it happens that in Belarus, the people are not really wanted. They are pushed to the border by Belarussian border guards and told go to Poland. Go to Poland. And this is what I know from the refugees that I helped, and I asked them about things like that. And each one of them confirmed that even at some point, they say, when I feel really exhausted, and I feel crushed, and I say, let me come back home, I don't want to go on anymore, the Belarussian border guards say, no, you are not allowed. You have to go to Poland. This is the only possible direction. So they are pushed into this razor wire. Some of them have even some scars and cuts on their faces. So it happens, really. Sometimes, they are beaten and sometimes even quite badly and pushed to the Polish side there. There they get into another trap because there are the Polish guards and the police and the dogs. So it's something like a human hand, and they have to escape. They have to hide. And if they are caught by the... by the guards, they are brought again to the border, and they are told go back to Belarus because Poland is no place for you.

CO: Already, there are seven of these refugees who have died in these conditions --

KW: The confirmed number because we suppose it's very possible, most probable, that more of them have already died.

CO: Poland does not want them. Belarus is using them. Can you just tell us a bit about that? Why the Belarusians won't let them go anyplace else? Why are they pushing them into Poland?

KW: Because, in fact, they do not need them. This is a part of a bigger game. When sanctions were put on Belarus, Lukashenko, the president, he said that, OK, you are doing this to us so I can play a trick on you, and I will flood you with refugees. And he started opening his country for a visa-free movement for more and more Middle Eastern African countries, letting all the immigrants in.

CO: So Belarus is actually using these refugees as weapons? They're trying to push them into your --

KW: I would say so. Yes, I would say so. This is a cruel game where people do not count as people but like elements of a bigger game. But I would say that in a nation like maybe not in a nation, in a state, where the president does not respect his own nation, so he thinks even less about the people that come as a part of the of the game, and they come from faraway countries. This is how I see it.

CO: Just a question about you. Because just weeks ago, you were not someone who was helping refugees. And so you're not an activist. This is not what you normally do. How did you... how did you get involved with helping them? And are people mostly like you or lots of Pols against these migrants coming in?

KW: The society is divided because our society's very often quite xenophobic. [chuckle] We are more or less a quite monolithic country with fear of different cultures in many, many situations. And this is also the propaganda of the present government that is quite conservative. So many people are against, but there is a huge wave of people that want to help. And they started organizing, for example, collecting sleeping bags, boots, clothes, stuff like that that might be needed at the border. And I joined the whole movement, this whole local activism, simply by answering one of such calls for things needed at the border. And this is how it all started for me. But once the things were taken from my house, all the... all the jackets and stuff like that, I got in touch with the activists telling them that I would like to get more involved. I started going on interventions, you know, aid missions trying to find the people in the forest and bring them what they need. And once you start doing it, it's very hard for you physically and mentally, I would say. But also, seeing the people suffering because this is really a different story when you see it with your own eyes. So then, I could not stop. Not because I like the thrill, because I don't like it, but because I can not forget about the suffering that I've seen.

CO: Your country is now moving forward with plans, multimillion-dollar plans to build a wall to prevent people from coming in. What message do you have for your own government right now?

KW: You know, I'm crushed by the idea of building a wall because I think that the wall that is going to be built is just one of the incarnations of new walls that our government has been trying to build in new human minds to divide people to somehow make them prejudiced against other people in need. This is not the way to solve the problem. We cannot solve a problem, could really solve it genuinely by trying to avoid facing it. The people will be coming, still dying in the forest. So I would say that there should be something like a real deep, top-down initiative that would build some kind of asylum. Some kind of shelters, provide medical help because this is still very difficult for many people. They do not get medical help. And this will somehow also normalize our life here because we suffer as a local community because this is not something that I would like to do. I don't want to be an activist. Not maybe like this. I don't want to have the need of being an activist. And as long as there will be people in the forest dying there on the cold ground, people like me will have to be doing it. This should be our state that should deal with the problem, but really and deeply in a human way and should not deprive anybody of their humanity because this is what they are doing and this is something unbearable for us to live here and to watch it every day.

CO: Kasia, I know it's late. You have had a very long day. And I appreciate what you are doing in the forest. And I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

KW: Thank you. Thank you very much. Goodbye.

CO: Goodbye.

CH: Kasia Wappa is a volunteer who lives in the border community of Hajnowka in Poland. We reached out to Belarus's State Border Committee about the treatment of migrants that Ms. Wappa described. We did not hear back before we went to air. You can find more on this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

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Colin Powell Obit

Guest: Bill Graham

CH: Colin Powell has left the world with a complex legacy. Today, the former U.S. Secretary of State died of complications from COVID-19. In the United States, he is being celebrated as the first Black person first to lead their military and then to represent their nation on the world stage. But for many, General Powell will always be remembered for a single speech. It was February 2003. Colin Powell was George W. Bush's global salesman for invading Iraq. He arrived at the UN with what he promised was proof that Saddam Hussein was threatening the world with weapons of mass destruction.

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COLIN POWELL: I cannot tell you everything that we know, but what I can share with you, when combined with what all of us have learned over the years, is deeply troubling. What you will see is an accumulation of facts and disturbing patterns of behaviour. The facts and Iraqis behaviour... Iraq's behaviour demonstrate that Saddam Hussein and his regime have made no effort, no effort, to disarm as required by the international community. Indeed, the facts and Iraq's behaviour show that Saddam Hussein and his regime are concealing their efforts to produce more weapons of mass destruction.

CH: The Bush Administration got its invasion -- but it was never able to turn up anything resembling those weapons of mass destruction. Bill Graham was one of the people that Colin Powell was trying to convince with that speech. Mr. Graham was Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs in 2003. We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Mr. Graham, what comes to mind when you hear those words of Colin Powell from back then in February 2003?

BILL GRAHAM: Well, it comes to mind, of course, the tremendous debate that we were having with the American administration about that time and about the wisdom of going to Iraq and the fact that Canada had no intention of going without a UN mandate. And the very poor fundamental disagreement we had with the Bush administration. And my job was to articulate that position to Colin. So I met with him regularly to discuss that. He was generous enough to say, look, you are a sovereign nation. You will make up your own mind. But I will say I was surprised by that presentation, as were the majority of foreign ministers that I was in regular contact with at that time. And I'm including Igor Ivanov from Russia and Javier Solana in Europe, and Oskar Fischer and Dominique de Villepin. Everybody was looking to Colin Powell for leadership. And we were all, I would say, taken by surprise by that presentation.

CO: And he... he himself, had said that he had serious questions about it, even though he was saying, there is no doubt in my mind. He did doubt it. We had already heard George Bush, Dick Cheney, the others have been banging the war drums for months at this point. But you at the time, you said that you found Colin Powell's presentation troubling but convincing. Why was it convincing to you?

BG: Well, it was certainly... it was... it convinced a lot of people. It certainly didn't convince us because our own experts were telling us, human intelligence was telling us that there were no weapons of mass destruction. I was personally in touch with Hans Blix at the UN about that. He was the weapons inspector. He assured me that that was not the case. This was cooked up by American intelligence and the British intelligence, as we now know from history. And we know from Colin himself he said that he regretted it. He personally told me when we got together in Ottawa, when he came up with George Bush at the end of Mr. Bush's presidency, that he had tremendous regrets. But he actually told me that he spent days over at the CIA and thrown out about three-quarters of what they wanted him to say in favour of what he felt was the legitimate points that they were able to make.

CO: At the same time, because he carried moral authority. Many people believed that if Colin Powell is saying this, that Saddam Hussein is a threat to the world. It has to be true. And so is that the general impression that because Colin Powell was so convinced, it must be true?

BG: Well, certainly that certainly had the effect on the American public of creating a credibility that a lot of people were very skeptical about. It certainly didn't persuade the French. It didn't persuade us. At the time, Mr. Heinbecker, our ambassador, was working on trying to get a UN resolution through that would have forced further examination to see whether or not there were weapons of mass destruction. All of which the Americans considered sort of interference. I think the problem for Colin Powell was, and he told me this, he said, you know, the secretary of state acts with the will of the president. And I said, you know, as a cabinet minister, I speak to my prime minister and give him my opinion. That's what my constituents expect me to do. And he said, but I'm not that. I have no constituency. I am only the right-hand man, if you like, of the president. And I think he had to make up his mind as to whether or not he was going to remain in the room or whether he was going to have to quit. And that's what... that was the choice he made. I think with history, he probably may have regretted that and wished that he'd quit.

CO: Canada made the decision. You're... the government you were part of made the decision not to join the so-called "Coalition of the Willing".

BG: Right.

CO: And the United States was not happy about that. What did Colin Powell... how did... what did he say to you about Canada's decision?

BG: Well, I phoned him up and said, look, you've got two problems. And I've met with him at the State Department a few weeks earlier to discuss some other issues. And in this space, he had, you know, if you own it, you break it, you own it. I said, you know, I think our problem is that you won't have a legal mandate because you won't have the UN. And you don't seem to have the facts on your side because a lot of us just don't believe this evidence. He totally vehemently disagreed with that. But he said to me when I told him we were definitely not going to join the Coalition of the Willing, he said to me, he said, you're a sovereign nation, Bill. And you'll make up your own minds. And that was his nature. He was extremely gentlemanly. He was respectful of others. He expected you to respect him. And that was his approach. I mean, completely different, for example than Paul Cellucci, who was the American ambassador you'll recall in Ottawa at the time, and who, you know, really got a beating the war drums about how could our government take the position that they did? This was just unacceptable. And even took to certain public occasions to criticize the government openly for its decision.

CO: But now, wind the clock ahead, hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians died, millions of Iraqis displaced. We just did an interview now with a woman trying to help refugees crossing the borders in Europe, Iraqis among them. So does Colin Powell have to wear this as his legacy?

BG: No, I don't think, Colin... I mean, he's... he obviously wears that aspect of it. But this was certainly very clearly President Bush's decision. There's been a recent book that really reveals that he personally was much more actively pushing this than the rest of us. We always thought it was more Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, but it looks like President Bush himself was ferociously determined to do this. I recall one time he phoned Mr. Chretien and offered to come to Ottawa himself to brief us on... on the evidence. And Mr. Chretien said to me, what do you think? You think this is a good idea? And I said, I don't think you think it's a good idea, and I certainly don't either. Mr. Chretien said, no, we can say no on the phone better than we can say to his face. So, it was a lot of pressure coming, but I don't think that Colin himself... he was... he was a player. He was a part of a team, and he had a military background that sort of engaged him in that sense of being a part of the team, and he either had to leave the team or participate in it. And I think if he had thought about the consequences you just point out, and not only the consequences of the Iraqi population and the instability in the Middle East but the fact that Iraq was delivered into the hands of the Iranians who are supposed to be the great enemy of the United States, it's not only a military and humanitarian catastrophe, it's probably one of the greatest diplomatic and strategic blunders of the 20th century.

CO: Mr. Graham, we'll have to leave it there. And I appreciate you speaking with us. Thank you.

BG: Nice to talk to you, Carol.

CH: Bill Graham was Canada's Minister of Foreign Affairs under Jean Chretien. We reached him in Toronto.

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Spanish literary hoax

Guest: Inés Martín Rodrigo

CH: There is finally an answer to the age-old question: how many men does it take to write a hit Spanish trilogy under a woman's name? The answer is three. And we just learned that on Friday night -- when popular Spanish crime writer Carmen Mola was awarded a million-euro prize for her forthcoming book "The Beast." But when her name was called out, three men took the stage and announced that they, in fact, were that one female author. Inés Martín Rodrigo is a culture and books journalist at the Spanish newspaper ABC. And we reached her in Madrid.

CO: Ines, How is Spain taking this news that this much-celebrated female novelist is actually three men?

INES MARTIN RODRIGO: Oh my god, Carol, you can imagine! It has been [chuckling] like a shock for... for everyone here, you know? Because they're the Planeta award in the most important literarian award in Spain. And it was like a shock, you know, that Carmen Mola, the name that these three guys used, everything started like three years ago in 2018, and it became a phenomenon so quickly. So many readers, a great success.

CO: OK, so they... they set up this... Carmen Mola was a pseudonym for a woman who was understood to be a university professor, a mother, who was in her spare time writing these extraordinary novels -- this trilogy about this... this police detective inspector who loves grappa, karaoke, classic cars. She likes sex and SUVs. And people thought, oh, this is someone who understands women, right?

IMR: Umm-hmm. Um-hmm. Um-hmmm. Um-hmmm. In fact, I think most of their readers were, in fact, women. [chuckle] So this is very shocking because I can imagine I have read some of their... of their novels, and I have to confess to you that I didn't… I didn't think she was a woman, OK? I thought that he had to be a man because... because of her writing, of the... of the way he... he wrote. I perfectly understand how many women can feel about the... the... the real name behind Carmen Mola. I perfectly understand that they... they are... I don't know how to say? Disappointed, or I want to say also that this is... this is very important for... for... for the... for the women in literature, at least here in Spain, because these three guys choose the name of a woman because I am sure this, OK? Because they thought that they will have more success than if they choose the... the name of a men. So this is very important for us, for women writers.

CO: But it seems that the books are really good. And that they… the Spain's Women's Institute says that Carmen Mola, one of her books, is one of the must-read books by women that help us understand the reality and the experiences of women. So they obviously touched something. So at some level, does it matter that they were men?

IMR: Um, for me, it doesn't matter at all, at all. And I know them personally, the three guys, OK? I didn't know that they were Carmen Mola, OK? But I have been talking with them in separate circumstances. And they... they are good writers. They are good screenwriters. But for me, um, I don't mind. For me, what... what... what... what I want to find when I open a novel, when I open a book is a good story, a good story to read. So for me, it doesn't matter who is behind Carmen Mola. I'm a feminist, OK? And I… I want the equal rights for men and woman, but I don't care who is... who who is after these phenomenon, OK? I can understand how other women can feel. But for me, it doesn't matter.

CO: What did they say? You know these these men, so what... have you talked to them? You've asked them why they did it?

IMR: After they won the prize, no. But before, I know that they wanted to be successful, OK? And they... they... they weren't. And so, they want the success. I can't imagine that they started this project together, the three of them because they wanted something bigger.

CO: But they also are playing off what happened in Italy with Elena Ferrante, right? And that who used the pseudonym and whose books are so good. And we still don't know entirely who she is. But this seems to have been a bit of a marketing ploy, too, right? That they were doing this... creating this mystique in order to sell the books, right?

IMR: Yes, absolutely. So marketing has played a very important role here in this... in this particular case. So the big question now is, in my opinion, is Carmen Mola going to sell now that we know who is behind her? This is the big question now, OK? Because now that everyone knows that these three guys are behind her, and what about the mystery, OK? What about the mystery that we still have, for example, in all the beautiful Elena Ferrante novels, OK? We have lost the mystery! [chuckle]

CO: We will watch to see what happens to Carmen Mola's reputation as a writer. [laughing] Ines, it's great to speak with you. Thank you.

IMR: No, thank you. It's been a great pleasure to talk to you.

CO: Goodnight.

IMR: Goodnight. Bye-bye.

CH: Inés Martín Rodrigo is a culture and books journalist at the Spanish newspaper ABC. She was in Madrid.

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Part 2: Queen's Homecoming, Ogopogo Rights Transfer

Queen's Homecoming

Guest: Brock Jekill

CH: This weekend, Queen's University hosted an entirely virtual homecoming -- but students had something much different in mind. Thousands defied warnings from the university, the city of Kingston, Ontario, and the police and crowded the streets with red Solo cups in hand. These unsanctioned street parties have become a student tradition at homecoming. But this year, people were more unhappy than usual about what they saw -- including sheets scrawled with misogynistic messages hanging from student houses. Brock Jekill is a third-year student at Queen's University. We reached him in Kingston.

CO: Brock, what did you make of what you saw the students at your university during this weekend?

BROCK JEKILL: I don't think it was surprising. We've had HoCo celebrations like this going on for decades now. I think this one was particularly raucous. I think it was kind of a combination of people being frustrated about having been locked inside for a year and not seeing people, and also, the people who weren't following guidelines, to begin with, are the ones mostly going out.

CO: When you talk HoCo, it's homecoming, right? And another phenomenon that's been at some of these homecoming events, these unsanctioned ones, that you saw signs that were out in front of certain houses. Can you tell us what you saw?

BJ: I mean, a staple of HoCo is these big, basically bed sheets that have slogans written on them. Usually, they're some kind of joke about a rival school or something like that. But there were some that had been circulating around the news during homecoming relatively misogynistic and kind of in line with supporting rape culture. I think the two that stood out were: lock up your daughters, not Kingston. Which managed to also be anti-COVID to kill two birds with one stone, I guess. And the other was: Western guys are Pfizer because they want to get inside her. Which especially with what's happened recently at Western and the issues of sexual violence coming out of there seems especially poor taste.

CO: And this is something we... in 2019, we covered it at Western. There were these kinds of horribly misogynist bedsheet messages, also challenging Queens in the same way. So this kind of rivalry between these two Ontario universities to see who can be more gross, more misogynistic has become another tradition, right?

BJ: Yeah, totally, yeah. You put it pretty much perfectly. Like, what should just kind of be a rivalry of poking fun at the other school seems to be just a game of one-upping each other on misogyny and just general, I don't know, inappropriate behaviour, I guess.

CO: So you felt compelled to confront those who are hanging these bedsheet messages in the house. What happened?

BJ: At this point, I'd been at home because I wasn't really partaking in anything, but I saw the messages going around the news, and I was just... had kind of been thinking back to conversations I'd been having with people about these issues and like women's safety on campus and thinking often the end of the conversation is sort of like, this sucks. I wish it was different. But then I'm kind of looking at these like, we're the student body. We're the ones in the position to actually do something about it. So why not? So I just went outside. I brought a couple of buddies with me because I was a figuring the folks hanging these signs up probably weren't exactly in the mood for a complicated discussion, which I'm glad I did because I basically went up to the front door, just knocked on it. A girl answered, who... I asked if it was her place? She said no, but agreed that the sign was pretty messed up and said they were planning on taking it down. And she... she called up for somebody, and by that time somebody had walked out onto the roof through a window and had just started yelling down at us basically, like, get the f off my property. You're... if you're offended, we don't care. Another tenant comes out, stumbling out. Like, obviously very drunk. He first yells something about like, why do we have those things on? In reference to masks that we wore. After a little bit of arguing, he starts kind of shoving, ripped our masks off our faces. It was quite a mess. In the end, him and his buddy ended up both having self-inflicted injuries just from falling over on things and cutting themselves and needed to call the EMS in the end.

CO: Were they students?

BJ: Yes. I mean, I assume so. Both were wearing Queen's outfits, and the student ghetto is pretty much exclusively student housing.

CO: Did the police get involved?

BJ: They did not. I heard campus security apparently came down later to make them take the signs down. But knowing how overloaded the police were at that point, we knew the police were probably just going to tell everybody to disperse or just have to hand out tickets and ask people to deal with it later. So we figured it's better to just leave it.

CO: Queens is now saying it's going to take action against the students who displayed the signs, and do you think that that's sufficient to send a message about how wrong this is?

BJ: I think it's the bare minimum of what should definitely happen. The trouble with it, and the trouble with the way the university in general kind of approaches this, is it's kind of dealing with events after they happen rather than kind of attacking them at their core. Because I think, on the whole, it's... it's really an issue of just university culture and student culture, which I don't think is going to change unless we have better education systems, better mental health support, especially for educating men who are coming out of a pretty toxic masculine culture. And I mean, obviously, it's good to have enforcement like these non-academic misconducts. But at the end of the day, they can feel like a hollow threat. So I think it definitely helps when students are getting involved and making it clear that students aren't going to tolerate it at the moment it happens.

CO: This discussion was just a few weeks ago as well at Western. Police are investigating reports of a sexual assault -- also, the cases of date rape drug that possibly went around in one of the residences. Police are investigating all of that. This came up this idea that toxic masculinity is part of it. So you clearly don't have it. What needs to be done? How come you don't share this kind of view that seems to poison the environment in ways we've seen at the universities?

BJ: I mean, possibly credit to my family. I grew up with my mom and three sisters, so that... that probably definitely helped. Like, I was taught from a pretty young age that respecting women is a pretty important thing, and it goes beyond just classic chivalry, like it's actually making sure everybody feels comfortable and safe. But I think, in general, what we need to do to kind of to...to stop it is just have more, you know, positive male role models or I guess just men willing to to speak out and just say, like, you know, it's not cool, it's not... like you're not being a rebel by trying to upset people or offend people. So I think it's going to take a lot more people stepping up and saying, like, this doesn't make you cool. You're not a tough guy for doing this. It's something that's making our campus worse, and then people aren't going to stand for it.

CO: And actually come from male students.

BJ: I hate to separate it like that. I think just unfortunately, the reality of it is the culture is so ingrained in these guys heads that hearing the same folks that they think typically would be admiring them, telling them, like, look, this isn't cool. This is just pathetic to see. I think showing them that there's no holdout and no, no bastion or sanctuary for this behaviour shows that it's not a cultural thing. It's something you need to stop.

CO: Well, Brock. We'll leave it there. I'll say that your mother should be very proud of you, and I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

BJ: Well, thank you very much. Yeah, I appreciate you taking the time. Thank you.

CO: Bye.

BJ: Bye.

CH: Brock Jekill is a third-year student at Queen's University. We reached him in Kingston, Ontario.

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FOA: Colin Powel Obit

CH: As you heard earlier in the show, today, Americans have been marking the passing of Colin Powell. General Powell was the United States' first Black Secretary of State. Before that, he was the United States' top military officer. But those roles were in Colin Powell's past when he took a call from As It Happens. It was December 2013, and General Powell had just attended the funeral of Nelson Mandela. He began by telling Carol about his memories of another ceremony: the one where Nelson Mandela went from freedom fighter to South African President.

SOUNDCLIP

COLIN POWEL: I was a retired soldier then, and I'd left the chairmanship of the Armed Forces of the United States the year before. And I was privileged to be part of the delegation. And I kind of saw things through the eyes of a soldier as well as just a citizen watching this. And I'll never forget the moment. After waiting for a long time for the ceremony to begin, they finally said, ladies and gentleman, please welcome the new president of the New Republic of South Africa, and Nelson Mandela started to approach the steps up to the platform, but he was preceded by the four generals of the South African Defence Forces as his guard of honour. And I was just stunned to see this. That these four men who held the power of the state, the power of the state, that had suppressed Blacks for so many years was now... they were now coming up to be a guard of honour to their new president who happened to be Black in a democratic transfer of power as a result of an election. And I said, my gosh, this is incredible. I looked over the audience, and everybody was applauding. And there were a number of people there who I would not have considered friends of the United States or, frankly, friends of democracy. And it was an inspiring moment for all who were there to witness this.

CO: He... you know that Nelson Mandela never renounced his belief in armed struggle. How do you explain how he came to be seen in a different light?

CP: Well, he started out in a non-violent manner. And then when that wasn't working, and he saw that the power of the state was going to suppress the movement, he turned toward violence, and he turned… we called him a terrorist here in the United States. We put him on our terrorism list. But then, those long years in jail, I think, tempered his views, and he started to think, can I possibly win this through violence? Or is there another stronger weapon that I can use? How about the power of persuasion? The power of example? How about the power of love? How about the power of showing the rest of the world that under my leadership or the leadership of the ANC, we can bring the two sides together? So let's try the power of reconciliation. And those long years in jail allowed him to develop a new, more powerful strategy that succeeded. But it only succeeded because he told everybody that this has to be a time not of getting even but of reconciliation. And he made it clear to both Blacks and whites that he would not, as president of the country, stand for either side trying to oppress the other.

CH: That was former U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, speaking with Carol in 2013, after the funeral of Nelson Mandela. Colin Powell died of complications from Covid-19 today. He was 84.

[music: horns!!!]

Ogopogo Rights Transfer

Guests: Wilfred Barnes, Pamela Barnes

CH: To many people, Ogopogo is an elusive, mythical creature that's said to live in Okanagan Lake in British Columbia. And if you visit Vernon, B.C., you'll see a statue of a cute green and brown serpent-like creature depicting that notion of the Ogopogo. Now the city of Vernon has transferred the trademark and copyright to Ogopogo to the Okanagan Nation Alliance, a group of eight area First Nations. But the Indigenous story of Ogopogo -- or N'ha-a-itk -- is much different from the one popularized and commercialized by non-Indigenous people. Wilfred "Grouse" Barnes and Pamela Barnes are knowledge keepers with the Westbank First Nation, part of the Okanagan Nation Alliance. We reached them in Westbank, B.C.

CO: Wilfred, what does N'ha-a-itk mean in your language?

WILFRED BARNS: When we break words down, we get to the true meaning of the word. So, N'ha-a-itk, the first part of the word, N'ha-a, which is sacred. And the last part of the word is itk which is water. So it's sacred being of the water.

CO: What does Ogopogo mean?

WB: Ogopogo came to be in 1923-24 through the board of trade in Kelowna? And for me, I interpret that as tourists, come and spend your money.

CO: [ CO and WB chuckle] Yeah, a different word altogether, right?

WB: Absolutely.

CO: Pamela, the word itself, I mean, what does it actually represent? What... this is an important creation story that's been handed down through generations, right?

PAMELA BARNES: And so N'ha-a-itk, to us, you know, reminds us that we don't own the lake, that the lake is N'ha-a-itk's home. And so when we go to the water, when we go to the lake, we need to go there with that kind of reverence and that kind of respect that we're going into someone else's home. So if we're going there for the day with our family, you know, we might not say prayers or start with a song or make an offering, but it would definitely be in our intention. But if we were going there for a ceremony, then we would take a gift or make an offering. And it's been greatly misunderstood. Just like if you go to someone's home for dinner, you might take a gift. You do that out of respect, not because you worship that person, but it's a matter of manners. It's a matter of respect. So it's the same for us.

CO: And Wilfred, maybe just this... the Ogopogo version, the commercial version of this spirit, how has it been used? What's the version of the story that's told through that name and through that legacy?

WB: I believe that the Ogopogo is a... is used as a mascot or something to entice tourists to come to the Okanagan.

CO: And, in fact, in Vernon, B.C., there's this statue that's supposed to be Ogopogo, kind of a serpent, green and brown, that's someone's version of what Ogopogo might look like, right?

WB: Well, there's one... also one in Kelowna also beside the sales.

CO: How do people... how do indigenous people who live in the area, who live in Okanagan, how do they feel about Ogopogo?

PB: Well, N'ha-a-itk or Ogopogo is the same for us as it has always been. But the commercial version, you know, that speaks to a different culture and a different worldview.

CO: Quite a different view because this was a copyright. How can a spirit be owned? How can you make a copyright of a spirit and then turn it into what... How did that come to be in 1920s? How did the whole image -- The whole understanding of the spirit of the lake -- become... become something that someone could own?

PB: Well, that's not a question for us. [laughing] because I don't know. You know, that's not our way. That has very much been the way of the newcomers to this land, that whole idea of humans owning the land, the water and life. And that's very contrary to the way that we look at things. You know, we look at the land and the water and all living things. We borrow all of this from future generations. And there's a very big difference between those ideas of human ownership and borrowing. When you own something, you can do what you want with it. You can take care of it or not. You can sell it, trade it, give it away. When you borrow, everything changes. You can't sell it, you can't trade it, you can't give it away because it's not yours to do that with. You have an expectation of caring for it to the very best of your ability.

CO: And yet, the ownership of this... this has been... was sold to the city to Vernon in the 1950s and has been owned by them since. And now, it's being transferred to the Okanagan Nation Alliance. So, Wilfred, does it give a chance to have that real meaning of this word of Ogopogo returned to First Nations? Returned to the way... how it originally was?

PB: Well, I believe N'ha-a-itk never did belong to Vernon. To me, N'ha-a-itk belongs to our people, our way of life. Just because somebody says they own something, don't mean they own it. You know, that's just Euro-thinking and thinking that they can own anything. I believe the contrary. Because our people have been here for thousands of years, and his real name is N'ha-a-itk. We don't own N'ha-a-itk. Do you get the concept?

CO: I do, Wilfred. And I think I understand. And I hope it helps to shift how people see the lake and see the spirit as well. And I appreciate... Wilfred and Pamela, appreciate speaking with both of you. Thank you.

WB: You enjoy your day.

CO: Thank you. Bye-bye, Pamela.

PB: Bye.

WB: Bye-bye.

CH: Wilfred "Grouse" Barnes and Pamela Barnes are Westbank First Nation knowledge keepers. They're in Westbank, B.C.

[music: ambient]

Boogie Board Inventor Obit

CH: Maybe you saw the headline today: "Tom Morey, inventor of wave-riding Boogie Board, dies at 86." And maybe you thought, "oh, I've used one of those. Good for that guy. Cool invention." And then you did the crossword. That was pretty much my reaction. But then I visited some surfing websites -- where Tom Morey was referred to as "a contemporary Renaissance man"; "the Ben Franklin of surfing", and "a modern-day philosopher". And where I learned that the Boogie Board wasn't just a neat half-size surfboard that opened surfing up to everyone of any age who could lie on their stomachs. It was also a new wave of thinking about surfing. As Mr. Morey once told Sports Illustrated, "By surfing on the Boogie board, you are communing with the rhythms of nature." That's the kind of guy Tom Morey was: thoughtful and expansive. A surfer who never stopped tinkering with the surfboard, to improve everyone's experience. And while a lot of his many innovations were important, none were as revolutionary as the Boogie Board -- which he called that because he was an avid drummer and ukulele player, who loved music. In 1985, he explained his invention's appeal.

SOUNDCLIP

TOM MOREY: Now, that board weighs three pounds. That’s a slippery, flexible little piece of foam. So this is something that a grandma, grandpa can take and spill around in the water, or they can put their little kid on. It's like a ballpoint pen. It's the same thing for everybody, whether you're a Picasso or just a scribbler.

CH: To some snobs, no one who used a Boogie Board was a true surfer. But if there is such a thing, Tom Morey was one. And he once said, "We're all surfers."

[music: indie rock]

Part 3: Solar System Magnetic Tunnel, Encore: Nixon Sandwich

Justin Trudeau Tk'emlups te Secwepemc Visit

CH: Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's visit to the Tk'emlups te Secwepemc Nation today was a long time coming. And as Chief Roseanne Casimir made clear, its members would have preferred he visited sooner. It's been nearly five months since the First Nation confirmed the presence of more than 200 unmarked graves at the site of the former Kamloops Indian Residential School. And more than two weeks since the Prime Minister failed to attend the community's National Day for Truth and Reconciliation ceremonies. But as Tribal Chief Wayne Christian reminded people at today's press conference, this isn't the first time his community has waited too long for justice. Mr. Christian is a member of the Secwepemc Nation's Splatsin band -- and his mother attended the former Kamloops Indian Residential School.

SOUNDCLIP

WAYNE CHRISTIAN: Earlier this morning, I was thinking, what am I going to say? And thought, non, I’ll just, like, talk to my mom because my mom went to this institution. And I would say to my mom, hey, mom, you know, May 27th of this year, 2021. The children, the children, uttered these words to the world. You found us. You found us. Because my mom was a child when she attended this institution. And so, my words this morning are for all of you that went to these institutions. Because my mom, she could not talk about the residential school. Because if you can imagine my family, my children, my grandchildren, my great-grandchildren are asking about their grandmother, did she attend? And I can tell them, yes, but she never spoke about the atrocities that she experienced as a child. And I think of my mom, as all of the survivors of these institutions, as a mother and how she warriored up here and survived this institution so she could give me life. So thank yourselves all you survivors for the work that you did, the hard work you did to survive the genocide of Canada against us [clapping]. The Genocide. We are here because every man, woman and child, mother and father, grandmother, grandfather, aunt and uncle, you warriored up. You survived over 100 years of this institution. We're still here. We're still here. [cheering and clapping] And I'm probably the only person on this stage that had an interaction with the prime minister's father here in Kamloops. Some of you would remember the Constitution Express and what we did when we travelled across the country to Ottawa then New York. And a year later, to seven different countries and in Europe and finally to the Queen, talking about nation-to-nation relationships. So when this young man stood up and from the podium in Ottawa talked about the most important relationship is with us. And it's a nation-to-nation relationship. I could not believe what I heard. Our ancestors and our people have been fighting this for centuries. So when this man stood up and did those and said those things, it gave me hope. It gave many of our people hope. But were they just words? A lot of you are seeing the actions of this government. And as the regional chiefs said, actions speak louder than words.

CH: Splatsin First Nation Kúkpi7 Wayne Christian, speaking in Kamloops today. Mr. Christian is a Sixties Scoop survivor, and his mother attended the former Kamloops Indian Residential School.

[music: acoustic guitar]

Solar System Magnetic Tunnel

Guest: Dr. Jennifer West

CH: Ever feel like you're hemmed in on all sides by unseen forces? I hear you. And buddy, you are not alone. It turns out we might all be in the same boat there. And by "we", I mean the Earth, the sun and the stars...everything. University of Toronto astrophysicist Jennifer West says her new research suggests that our entire solar system may be surrounded by a vast magnetic tunnel. And that previously observed bright structures in the sky that were thought to be independent are actually connected. Her work has just been published in the Astrophysical Journal. We reached Professor West in Winnipeg.

CO: Jennifer, if we had eyes that could see radio waves or radio light, what do you believe we would see when we looked up at the night sky?

DR. JENNIFER WEST: Yeah, great question. So there are these two extremely bright features that stretch almost across the entire sky. So if we could see radio light, we would see this bright stuff stretching all the way across the sky in several different directions. So there's two main bright ones, but there's actually some... some smaller ones as well. And this... this bright radio emission just about fills most of the sky, especially as seen from here in the northern hemisphere.

CO: And what you have been able to discern is that the... that separate bright structures of that nature are actually not separate. They're joined by a tunnel. What exactly is this tunnel?

DJW: Yeah. So I mean, the tunnel is a way of describing this structure, if you will. I mean, it's not a physical tunnel, but these bright sources of emission are due to the same source that's probably very close to us. You know, in astronomy terms, it's still very, very large, and it's much larger than our Solar System. But this research shows that this bright emission that we see in different directions is actually probably something like what we could describe as the walls and the ceiling of the floor of the tunnel that's lit up and that we're seeing it... it looks like we're surrounded by it. So we're inside of this larger structure.

CO: And if this cannot be seen with the eye, how are you seeing it?

DJW: Right. So we are using radio telescopes. So there's actually several radio telescopes. One I'm using was the Planck mission that was in space. I'm also using a radio telescope that's located in Canada at the Dominion Radio Astrophysical Observatory in Penticton, British Columbia. And so, we use radio telescopes, which are designed to pick up these radio waves that are coming from space.

CO: And this is something that has been nagging you for about 15 years now?

DJW: Yeah, well, I mean, ever since I first... you know, when I was a student, and I first saw a image of the sky in... in radio light, they're really hard to miss. There's... there's one of them in particular called the North Polar Spur. And it makes this huge arc across the centre of the galaxy as if you look at a radio map. And a lot of astronomers think it actually might be connected to the centre of our galaxy. So we have, we think, a central black hole in our galaxy and so that the structure might actually be connected to that. But then there's a lot of other astronomers that think it's much more nearby and isn't as far as the centre of the galaxy. So though when you see this... this feature in the map, it's really, really intriguing. And so I've been thinking about it for a very long time ever since I first learned to be a radio astronomer and looked at these maps and wondered what is this and what's causing it?

CO: But this discovery or recognition of this magnetic tunnel, this... this changes the way we see our... our solar system, right, our galaxy?

DJW: Yeah. So if you imagine that we are sitting inside of a tunnel or that you are sitting inside of a tunnel and the rest of the galaxy is outside of that tunnel and… but we're inside of it. And in order to understand the rest of the universe, I think it's really important for us to understand this local nearby structure so we can take it into account when we're looking at other things in our universe. Because... because we're inside of it, we have to look through it all the time. And so, I think it's a really important first step to understanding the broader... broader universe.

CO: And this first step, was there a kind of eureka moment for you when you first... when you put this together, when this puzzle came together for you?

DJW: Yeah, so it's interesting because a lot of research is... is very incremental, and you are, you know, gradually learning new things, and you are gradually putting this picture together. And in this case, there was a eureka moment, which I would say isn't even that common. But... but in this case, I was looking at a map of the radio sky on the computer. And it's just like a map of the Earth. If you look at a map of the Earth, we always almost look at it with the equator in the middle and the same... you know, the same kind of centre of that map. And it's the same thing when we look at a map of the galaxy. Astronomers usually put the galactic centre in the centre of the map. And I thought, well, you know what... what happens to this map if we look at it in a different way and so put something else at the centre? And when I did that, it became much more evident that these two structures might actually be, you know, on either side of us and opposite sides. And so that is what got me thinking about this picture that maybe were inside of something?

CO: One of your colleagues, Bryan Gaensler, he said... is quoted as saying, this is extremely clever work. When Jennifer first pitched this to me, I thought it was too out there to be a possible explanation. But she has been able to convince me. And I'm excited to see how the rest of the astronomy community reacts. How is the astronomy community reacting?

DJW: So [chuckle], the feedback I've received has been very positive. I think people think that this is a really interesting idea and, you know, a shift in perspective. As I said, most of the studies have... have focussed on these... these features as individual objects. And so the idea that, you know, we might be seeing essentially lines that are converging in perspective, I think has been a new idea for a lot of people. And I think it will create a bit of a shift in the way we think about the radio sky.

CO: Wow. OK, well, thanks for telling us about it.

DJW: Oh, thank you very much for having me. It was my pleasure.

CH: Dr. Jennifer West is an Associate Researcher at the Dunlap Institute for Astronomy and Astrophysics at the University of Toronto. We reached her in Winnipeg.

[music: world music]

Johnson on Sir Amess

CH: In death, Sir David Amess has achieved what he worked tirelessly to accomplish in life. On Friday, the British Member of Parliament was murdered during one of his regular meetings with constituents. Police are still investigating his attacker's motives. Today, MPs gathered in Westminster to pay tribute. U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson took the opportunity to announce that he would be delivering on Sir David's decades-long campaign to make Southend -- the town at the heart of his constituency -- a full-fledged city. Here's some of what Prime Minister Johnson had to say.

SOUNDCLIP

BORIS JOHNSON: Sir David was a patriot who believed passionately in this country, in its people, in its future. He was also one of the nicest, kindest and most gentle individuals ever to grace these benches. [a cry of here, here] A man who used his decades of experience to offer friendship and support to new members of all parties. Whose views often confounded expectation and defied easy stereotype. And who believed not just in pointing out what was wrong with society, but in getting on and doing something about it. In the awful moments before we knew the full horror of the tragedy, a member of Sir David's constituency association, her voice breaking with emotion, told an interviewer that we need him. The country needs him. And we do. This country needs people like Sir David. This House needs people like Sir David. And our politics needs people like Sir David. [here, here,] Dedicated, passionate, firm in his beliefs, but never anything less than respectful for those who thought differently. Those are the values he brought to a lifetime of public service. There can be few among us more justified than him in his deep faith in the resurrection and the life to come. And while his death leaves a vacuum that will not and can never be filled, we will cherish his memory. We will celebrate his legacy. And we will never allow those who commit acts of evil to triumph over the democracy and the parliament. That Sir David Amess loved so much. [here, here]

CH: That was U.K. Prime Minister Boris Johnson paying tribute to the murdered MP Sir David Amess in the U.K. parliament today.

[world music]

FOA: Encore: Nixon Sandwich

CH: Most people have an aversion to old, mouldy food. But here at As It Happens, we say the older the better. And we love to hear about the rare people who share our taste. Like the folks down at the Wenatchee Valley Museum & Cultural Center in Washington. Right now, they are holding onto a 95-year-old sandwich. It's wrapped in cellophane, in a dark, temperature-controlled room. And they're taking those precautions with that disgusting sandwich because it belonged to Clyde Pangborn -- the man who completed the first-ever flight across the Pacific Ocean in 1931. That dedication and care reminded us of Steve Jenne. The Missouri man has held onto a half-eaten sandwich since Sept. 22nd, 1960 -- because the half-eater was Richard Nixon. We spoke with Mr. Jenne last year, when the sandwich turned 60.

SOUNDCLIP

CO: Now, after 60 years in the freezer, there must be a fair bit of freezer burn there.

SJ: Well, it's inside a plastic bag and inside a glass jar that's well sealed. And all of that is inside another plastic bag stored away, tucked away in my freezer. And when I look at it through the glass, it doesn't look like it's shrunk or gotten moldy at all.

CO: And can you still tell if it's a sandwich?

SJ: Well, yeah. It's a bun with a couple of bites bitten out of it. So, yeah, if you know what you're looking at you can say, oh, yeah, that is a sandwich, isn't it? [Chuckles]

CO: And the couple of bites were actually made by Richard Nixon himself.

SJ: Right. I'm going to guess maybe three bites. By looking at the sandwich, there's more than one, maybe only two, but it looks like three bites.

CO: Right. We spoke with you back in 2006 and heard the story from you. But just some reminders of some detail. So you were a Boy Scout at the time in Sullivan, Illinois. How did you come to be in the company of then Vice President Richard Nixon?

SJ: Well, because back then there was not such a need for the security that we see today. Of course, in 1960, it was three years before the Kennedy assassination that changed everything, of course. So when they asked for security, our Boy Scout troop was available and I said, let's just put the Boy Scouts around the picnic table. I just happened to be the lucky one right behind Vice President Nixon. Everybody was jostling for a position and I was trying to keep people back.

CO: Okay, so you're 14 years old and you got a serious job there. You're the security man. So did do actually see him get the sandwich?

SJ: Yes, I did. Yeah, they had a young girl present him with the sandwich. What he was having that day was buffalo barbecue, like pulled pork, but it was buffalo meat. And then she stepped back and that's when he proceeded to take a couple bites. And for each bite, he made a nice comment. And I think that's probably why he didn't finish the sandwich, because there's only so many things you can come up with to say in front of thousands and thousands of people, if you take a single bite out of a sandwich. [Chuckles] So after three bites, he set it back out on the paper plate and excused himself to go elsewhere to make his political speech. And that's when thousands of people followed him. And that sandwich stayed there on the picnic table, on the paper plate, and nobody else thought about picking it up. So I decided that I would.

CO: Okay. So what went through your mind about that sandwich?

SJ: I thought, well, I'm going to take that. I put it on the paper plate, hopped on my bicycle, sped home and told my mother about it. And she said, "What do you want me to do with it? What you want to do to?" I said, freeze it. So she did. She put it inside a plastic bag and put that inside a musselman's applesauce jar. And it's been there for 60 years now.

CO: And your mother was never tempted to throw it away when thinking maybe you forgotten about it and it's just time to clean out the freezer.

SJ: Oh, yeah. She thought about it.

CO: But a single power outage, could have killed that little sandwich, right?

SJ: You're right. And it almost did. We had a huge blizzard on Easter Sunday, actually, as it was an ice storm that knocked out power. But my dad was always resourceful. So he already had a backup generator. And in fact, I think I drove out there through all the ice with that sandwich for that express purpose of having him put that into their freezer, which was hooked up to his generator. That worked. Yes.

CO: How old was the sandwich at that point?

SJ: Oh, gosh, it would've been 18.

CO: So it was 18 years old. Now, of course, we know all the things that happened to Richard Nixon after he nibbled that sandwich, including leaving the office under a cloud of an impeachment, everything else. I mean, so a lot worse things happened to him than to the sandwich. Why did it stay so important to you to keep Richard Nixon's sandwich?

SJ: I think just because, you know, year after year, I thought, you know, I've had it five years, I've had it 10 years, 2020 -- 60 years later, I can't get rid of it now. So yeah, I'm going to hang onto it forever.

CO: Okay. Now you have a new book which is called The Sandwich That Changed My Life. And what do you want people to learn from your experience?

SJ: I don't know if it's an instructional type of a book. It's more down home, small-town Americana.

CO: Well, your book sure sounds like a slice of life.

SJ: Good point. Yes, yes. Yeah, it's a slice of life. You can't get more Central America, central United States than Sullivan, Illinois. It gives you a glimpse into what we did back in 1960.

CO: Steve it is good to talk to you. Take care.

SJ: Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

CH: From September 2020, that was Carol speaking with Steve Jenne -- the proud owner of a 61-year-old sandwich half-eaten by Richard Nixon. You can hear that story again, and see a photo of the sandwich, on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: ambient]

NS MLA Homeless

CH: For Nova Scotia Liberal MLA Brendan Maguire homelessness isn't just an abstract idea or a campaign issue it's an experience he's lived. Mr. Maguire spent time in foster care, youth shelters, and living on the streets after his parents abandoned him and his siblings. During a recent debate on housing Brendan Maguire spoke about his time on the street and why he says the system is failing the most vulnerable Nova Scotians.

SOUNDCLIP

BRENDAN MAGUIRE: I wasn't going to do this, but I'll use my own personal experience. I have been homeless. I didn't care who was in power. The only thing I cared about was which apartment lobby am I going to sleep in? I slept in a BFI can one night because there was nowhere to go. You're looking for any way to survive. And you feel alone. And you feel hopeless. I was in my teens, you know, I was in a lot better shape than I am now. I felt like I could defend myself. But imagine being a mother. Imagine being a transgender individual or someone from the LGBTQI community that's more susceptible to violence. Where are they going to go? They're scared to death. And you wonder why when we as politicians and we as leaders approach these tents and these campsites, they say, get the hell out. They don't want us there. Because we've... everybody's been promising the same thing forever. So I implore the government. I know the Minister of Community Services, I know she has a massive heart. I've known her for eight years. I have faith. I actually have a lot of faith in what you're about to do. I'm excited because I keep hearing from the government that there is a plan coming. There is a plan coming. And I implore you, it's not just about a roof over their head. Putting a roof over somebody's head doesn't solve the issues. It helps. But we need to address their addictions. We need to address the issues that have put them there. Nobody wakes up one day and says, You know what? I want to be part of the justice system. I want to… I want to live on the street. I want to be abused, you know? People have passed. And if we're going to get them to the next stage, which every single one of us in this chamber that is here now and will come after us should be judged. Absolutely should be judged on how we treat those individuals.

CH: Nova Scotia Liberal MLA Brendan Maguire speaking at a recent debate about housing and homelessness in the province.

Dog stowaway

CH: It's not news that, for most people, it's been a time. And it's been a time for a long time, without much down time. So a few weeks ago, when Texas couple Kristi and Jared Owens saw an opportunity for a getaway, they seized it. They love their children. And their three dogs. And their rabbit and their fish. But even unbreakable bonds benefit from regular breaks. So the Owens threw some stuff in a suitcase and headed to the airport, where they learned they'd packed too much stuff. So they began to unpack. Which is how they discovered they weren't the only ones in their household trying to make a getaway. Icky, their chihuahua -- a bug-eyed beauty weighing all of five pounds -- had nestled inside one of Mr. Owens' cowboy boots. As he -- Mr. Owens, not Icky, who's a she -- told the Washington Post: "Just coming out of the boot is Icky's little bitty head bobbing up and down with her tongue out." It's not the first time the elderly chihuahua had been rescued. The family found her years earlier looking pretty gnarly on the side of the road. Which explains the name, but not why any creature would choose to spend time in an extremely used boot. The Owens still made their flight -- and fortunately for her, Icky did not. She was forced to stay behind. Or, to put it another way: she got the boot.

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October 18, 2021 Episode Transcript

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