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The AIH Transcript For October 12, 2021

[hosts]Carol Off, Chris Howden[/hosts]

CAROL Off: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

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Prologue

CO: Tonight:

CO: Nursing a grudge. A Montreal ER nurse says he's thrilled that the province is cracking down on his inadequately vaccinated colleagues because refusing the shot puts patients at risk.

CH: Equal measures. G20 leaders pledge to protect the rights of Afghan women, but a woman in Kabul who was prevented from going to work by a Taliban gunman says she's already losing hope.

CO: Submarine sandwich. The FBI nabs a pair of suburban spies accused of trying to sell the secrets of American nuclear submarines -- and hiding those secrets in a peanut butter sandwich.

CH: More than anyone bargained for. A family in the U.K. thought they were selling garden-variety stone garden sculptures, but when the bidding began, the auctioneer realized something was up -- way up.

CO His reputation was in taters. When Van Gogh completed a painting called "The Potato Eaters", no one liked it -- but 135 years later, a new exhibit devoted to the masterpiece really hits the spud.

CH: And... she wanted a better house, so he thought he'd give it a whirl. A Bosnian man claims his wife was never satisfied with how their house looked -- but now that he's made it rotate, it looks wherever she wants it to.

CH: As It Happens, the Tuesday edition. Radio that appreciates a little homespun wisdom.

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Part 1: Quebec Nurse Suspensions, Submarine Secrets Sting, Egyptian Relics Sold

Quebec Nurse Suspensions

Guest: Nathan Friedland

CH: It's crunch time for Quebec's unvaccinated nurses. The provincial government has ordered all frontline health workers to be fully vaccinated by Friday -- or they'll be suspended without pay. And now, the province's order of nurses has announced it will suspend their professional licenses as well. That has the biggest union talking about a legal challenge, and some nurses warning that staffing shortages at Quebec hospitals will go from bad to worse. Nathan Friedland is an ER nurse at Montreal's Lakeshore General Hospital. We reached him in Montreal.

CO: Nathan, how concerned are you about Friday's deadline? What worries you about that?

NATHAN FRIEDLAND: Not much. I think it's a good decision by the OIIAQ and a good decision by the government. My only worry is it should have come much earlier.

CO: What concerns do you have about the staffing situation that you'll encounter at your hospital?

NF: Well, where I work, I would say there is only a handful of bedside nurses that are going to get suspended. As for the nursing assistants or LPNs, it's about the same, about three of them out of, I think, roughly 50. So are we going to really feel that pinch? We might feel it a little bit, but I don't think we're going to feel it that much.

CO: How will they react? Do you actually know the nurses who are not vaccinated?

NF: I'm fairly certain. Yeah, I mean, I've spoken to a few of them, and they seem to say they're not vaccinated. But, you know, of course, I don't have proof. But, yeah, I've spoken to them.

CO: And what do they say are the reasons why they're not vaccinated?

NF: Well, the same reasons that you hear from other people that are not vaccinated. The vaccine has a microchip in it. The vaccine is a way to... for the government to control us. I have a say over what goes in my body. You know, this is the same... the same rhetoric that doesn't really have much justification, particularly when you're a health care professional.

CO: And that's the thing, isn't it? I mean, these are nurses. These are people trained in medicine. They're people who know how things work. So what do you make of the fact that there are so many, 4,000 nurses, who have not been properly vaccinated? Maybe other thousands who haven't been verified yet?

NF: I think it's an embarrassment to the profession. If I was the president of the OIIAQ, not only would I suspend the nurses, I would make them take a course about vaccines and make sure they pass it before they got their licences back. Because this just demonstrates a clear lack of knowledge from health care professionals, and this lack of knowledge has put the public in danger.

CO: We'll just tell people the OIIAQ is the Quebec Order of Nurses. That's the translation of that.

NF: Correct, yeah.

CO: And you said that one of the things that concerns you is how long it took. What... when do you think this should have happened?

NF: As soon as the vaccine was made available to us, it should have been mandated right away. I mean, does anybody really think that out of the thousands and thousands of nurses, none of them caused an outbreak in a hospital? Of course, they did. Of the thousands and thousands of unvaccinated nurses, there had to have been a few that caused some outbreaks. And if these people had been vaccinated, the chances of those outbreaks would have been reduced significantly. We shouldn't have had 4,000 or 5,000, 6,000 nurses in Quebec running around for nine months without the vaccine. That put the public in danger. And surely, it caused some outbreaks.

CO: Do other people, other nurses you work with, do they feel strongly about this as you do?

NF: Yes. The majority of the nurses feel the same way. You know, it's... it's a little bit frustrating to work side by side with a colleague who's not vaccinated because, you know, in some ways, it does put me in danger [chuckling] as well as the patients, you know? And it's just, I mean, at this point, it's just become ridiculous. It's just to the point where it's absurd. This... this pandemic has dragged on far too long. And all the numbers indicate that if more people had been vaccinated, this fourth wave would have been two-thirds of what it is now.

CO: Have you ever challenged or taken on any nurse and said this to her or him?

NF: I have, not to this extent, but yeah, I have in a polite way. And I don't get anywhere with my arguments. And this is why I feel the government had no choice here. You have to force it. And the only thing people listen to, unfortunately, is sanctions, especially when money is involved. And I guarantee that all these people that I work with are going to roll up their sleeves, and they're going to get the vaccine because they're going to lose their job basically otherwise. They... they have no choice. They have to do it. They can't go work at another spot in health care in Quebec because they require the vaccine too. I mean, it's just... it's just... it's a shame that it took this to get health care professionals to act like professionals. It's a real shame.

CO: But they're not just going to lose their jobs. They're going to lose their licences. Do you think that's a bit severe?

NF: No, no, I don't. Because the OIIAQ's mandate is to protect the public, they are not protecting the public very well if they know they have 4,000 unvaccinated nurses running around. And if they take a stance and say we will not tolerate this, you guys have to get your vaccine. They're going to get the vaccine, and the public will be safer for it.

CO: Do you think patients have a right to know if the nurse attending to them has not been vaccinated?

NF: A hundred per cent. I do believe that. I'll give you an example. My daughter's best friend, her grandmother, fell and hit the back of her head. She's elderly. She's afraid to go to the hospital. Why? Because she's afraid she's going to run into an unvaccinated nurse, so she didn't go. It's been a week. We don't know if she has a concussion. We don't know if her brain is bleeding. I mean, the public should not be afraid to go to the hospital because of an unvaccinated staff member. Everybody should be vaccinated in the hospital. The public should not be afraid of that. So, yes, they should know. You're not vaccinated. I don't want you as a nurse, you know, to take care of me, to take my blood. It's dangerous.

CO: Will you breathe more easily next week knowing that people who are unvaccinated, nurses unvaccinated around you, won't be there?

NF: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And I'll breathe easier because my patients will be safer. That's what concerns me the most is the patient's safety. And we should not have unvaccinated staff taking care of patients. All these patients are immunocompromised, diabetes, hypertension, COPD. I mean, the list is endless. You should not have unvaccinated staff taking care of people.

CO: Nathan, I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

NF: Very good. Thank you.

CO: Bye.

NF: Bye.

CH: Nathan Friedland is an ER nurse at Montreal's Lakeshore General Hospital. We reached him in Montreal.

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Submarine Secrets Sting

Guest: Julian E. Barnes

CH: One neighbour living in the same suburban Maryland community described him as a "nice, ordinary guy." But according to the FBI, "ordinary" is not the right word to describe Jonathan Toebbe. Officials allege that the former U.S Navy nuclear engineer, and Diana Toebbe, his wife, attempted to sell secrets about nuclear submarines to another government. Court documents tell the story of a months-long FBI sting involving encrypted communication and a memory card hidden in a peanut butter sandwich. The couple were in court today. Julian E. Barnes has been reporting on this for the New York Times. We reached him in Washington, D.C.

CO: Julian, for what you have learned from neighbours and colleagues. Do the Toebbes fit the image most people would have of spies?

JULIAN E. BARNES: I don't think they do. I mean, this is a suburban couple who had good jobs and had a nice, secure life. They're kind of like the nuclear physicist and cool history teacher. So not the kind of people you would expect to be spies, I don't think.

CO: Unless it's some kind of a Netflix series, [laughing] then maybe.

JEB: This does sound... have the feel of a forthcoming Netflix series, I'll tell you that.

CO: [chuckling] OK, but now what are the allegations? What does the FBI accuse this couple of doing?

JEB: They say that last year, they mailed the package to a foreign country -- we don't know what country -- and said, we want to sell you some secret naval nuclear propulsion information. That was sent in April 2020. In December 2020, the FBI obtained it. Maybe the country gave it to them. Maybe the FBI stole it. We don't know. But the FBI came to get this package, and then they began a sting operation through ProtonMail-encrypted conversations back and forth. The FBI undercover officer poses as a representative of this foreign government, and they have this correspondence that goes back and forth. And the FBI eventually lure the couple into going to a dead drop that the FBI has set up and putting information there. And that first dead drop is where the memory card inside the peanut butter sandwich was placed for the undercover FBI operative.

CO: Let's just go back a bit. And now, what information was Jonathan Toebbe allegedly selling?

JEB: It was information that had to do with the... America's nuclear-powered submarines. He worked on nuclear reactors that power American attack submarines and nuclear submarines. He was an expert at various things, including how those reactors are quieted. How you seal the reactors. This is information that any country that could build submarines, any country that could build a small nuclear reactor, would be interested in, potentially.

CO: And did he have a pretty high-security clearance then to be able to get this stuff?

JEB: Yeah. To have this, he would have a very high-security clearance. These are some of America's most well-protected secrets. There's all kinds of reasons you do not want this information to get out.

CO: What was Jonathan Toebbe allegedly wanting in exchange?

JEB: He was asking for cryptocurrency, a specific kind of cryptocurrency that he thought was less traceable than sort of the most popular bitcoin. He asked for a $100,000. The undercover FBI officer offered him $10,000, then $20,000 and then a little bit more as they were kind of luring him to give more. That initial package that he sent off to the foreign country did not have the most exquisite secrets, but it had information that showed he had access to some of those exquisite secrets.

CO: And so now... so you mentioned the peanut butter sandwich drop-off. What were the others?

JEB: Well, there was a peanut butter sandwich drop-off. There was a chewing gum wrapper drop-off and then, the last one, the one that required a desperate hunt for babysitting, was the band-aid drop-off in Pennsylvania.

CO: Babysitting being that his wife, Diana, had to get a babysitter in order to allegedly --

JEB: She was the lookout.

CO: As a lookout, she had to get someone to take care of the kids while they went for this final drop-off, right?

JEB: Yeah, I mean, you've got to have someone watch the kids when you're off betraying your country.

CO: How many kids do they have?

JEB: They have two children.

CO: According to the FBI, the Toebbes were quite sophisticated, or Jonathan Toebbe was quite sophisticated in his ability to encrypt messages to communications, but kind of sloppy in actually going for these drops. How did the Toebbes eventually get picked up?

JEB: I mean, that is one of the big puzzles of this. Like, he clearly in these notes to the FBI knows what he shouldn't do. He tells the undercover operation that he's worried about playing into what he calls an adversary. He worries about doing things that... that could expose him, and then he goes and does the thing that could expose him, which is he was trying to get the FBI to come to a drop point that he chose, and then the FBI convinced him to go to a drop point that they chose. And, of course, when he goes to a drop point that they chose, there's tons of FBI agents around there watching him, and they record what he does, and record where his wife does, and they watch them inexpertly look to see if they're being followed. And, of course, you need to have a little skill to detect an FBI tail.

CO: Just another thing to double back on, something you said, is that the suggestion is is that the attempt to sell this information was to a friendly country, an ally of the United States, who would be interested in this kind of information. Do we know who the country is?

JEB: We don't know the country. We believe it's an ally for a couple of reasons. One, the FBI obtained the initial package, and that could be the country voluntarily giving it up. There also was a signal placed in a building associated with the country -- that could be an embassy or another diplomatic facility. And they saw a signal in the window, and that's what convinced the Toebbes that they were dealing with a real representative of the country, not an undercover police officer. And that probably, not definitely, but probably would have involved the cooperation of the other country. And that's something a partner would do. Not an adversarial country like China or Russia.

CO: So this couple, they were in federal court today. How did they appear to you?

JEB: It was quite a very different picture from, like, the pictures we've seen in the school yearbooks or... or other pictures of them. They were in that classic orange jumpsuit of a federal prisoner. He was, you know, very alert, close-shaven hair, answered very clearly and loudly and confidently. She came in afterwards. She was a little slumped in her chair. She looked a little haggard, worn down. You know, they didn't look… you know, she didn't look great. You know, it didn't… it looked like it had been a hard few days.

CO: All right. Well, this is a fascinating trial. We'll be watching. You'll be watching. We'll follow your coverage as well. Julian, it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

JEB: Thanks for having me on.

CH: Julian E. Barnes is a national security reporter for The New York Times covering intelligence agencies. We reached him in Washington, D.C.

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Egyptian Relics Sold

Guest: James Mander

CH: The truth is, a pair of statues that recently sold at auction in the U.K. have seen better days. But for their previous owners, the sale has to have been just about the best day in recent memory. For years, the carved stone statues sat as garden ornaments. They were believed to be a few hundred years old at most. But as of this week, they're believed to be actual antiquities. James Mander runs Mander Auctioneers, which facilitated their sale. We reached him in Suffolk, England.

CO: James, first of all, could you just describe these two stone statues for us?

JAMES MANDER: They're traditional sort of sphinx that you'd see outside of like Egyptian pyramids and things like that. They're about just over a metre long. So they have the head of human and the body of a lion, which is supposed to sort of symbolize strength. And they're in very weathered condition, so you can see what they are, but most of the details are sort of gone away.

CO: And I understand there is evidence that at one point, one of these sphinxes was probably decapitated?

JM: Yes, I think they were bought purely as decorative objects for the garden. And when they got them, one of the heads was off, so they had a local builder very crudely sort of cement it back on. So you can see the sort of fillets of cement under the head of one of the... one of the figures.

CO: And being up for auction, how... how were you pitching it? What was... what did you think you were selling?

JM: Well, to be honest, they'd bought them for £300 or something at this other auction. So they said, can we reserve at £300, which is what they paid? And I thought, fine. That seems reasonable. So once the catalogue was published, we had some enquiries and some quite… people wanting to know some quite detailed information about them. So I went back to the vendors and asked where they bought them and what they paid and that sort of thing. And they said they bought them at a country house auction locally in about 12 or 15 years ago. And that was it, really. So I didn't really question them, and they were described at that time as being 18th century. So I kind of took them at their word, really. And never in my wildest dreams did I imagine they'd be Egyptian, ancient Egyptian. So it's just not something you'd see in a normal kind of visit to a house, so.

CO: [chuckle] OK, so describe what happened at the auction?

JM: At the auction, we had quite a few phone bids, and we had people bidding on the internet as well. With the COVID restrictions and things, we haven't got the public at the sales at the moment, so it's quite quiet. It's just the staff there. So we started the bidding at £200 because we have no idea. One of the phone bidders shouted out £5,000 quite early on, and we thought that was a bit crazy. And it crept very steadily up to £100,000. And then it seemed to stall, and then someone said, I'll go £101,000. And we thought that normally means they're getting towards the end of their sort of bidding. And then, they kept bidding up £195,000, [CO chuckles] and I couldn't quite believe it.

CO: One hundred and ninety-five thousand pounds, which is around 330,000 Canadian dollars for what you thought were a couple of well-worn, well-used lawn ornaments.

JM: I know, it's crazy. Actually, the final is a bit more than that because of the buyer's premium of 24 per cent, so that goes on top.

CO: OK, so what is it you understand as to why it's sold for so much money?

JM: Well, apparently, the buyer, unbeknown to us, came and viewed them. I think they didn't really want to alert us to the fact that they thought they're really old. I think a lot of these things were picked up on the Grand Tour in the 18th century. I just presumed with the information from the vendor and the other auction that they'd been copies made at this time. But I guess at some stage in their history, their true sort of origins had been forgotten and lost, so they just were presumed to be 18th-century copies, so.

CO: Instead, they might be how old?

JM: One of the bidders thought they're Roman, which would make them 2,000 years old. But if they're Egyptian, then more like 3,000 years old. So it was quite astonishing, really.

CO: OK, so now how... what's the theory? You mentioned the Grand Tour? What's the theory as to how these Egyptian antiquities ended up in an English garden?

JM: We're not too sure. I've got to... we haven't been able to identify exactly the auction and the date they were previously sold sort of 12 years ago. But presumably, they were collected in the 18th century, probably bought perfectly legitimately while somebody was travelling around Europe, brought back to England to sort of show-off piece for their garden. But at some time between then and now, their sort of origins have been forgotten. So, quite... quite an amazing story, really.

CO: But you know that many countries are questioning these sales that were... that may have been legitimate at the time. But these were -- are -- antiquities, and countries are trying to reclaim this property that ended up all over the world. So is there a chance that this might... that there might be a claim on these garden ornaments?

JM: To be honest, we're not really sure. I mean, the current owners bought them literally for £300 as something to decorate the patio. So they've just been on the patio near the garden table and some other pots as decorative items. I suppose we've got to then prove and find out where they actually came from originally and when, which could be difficult because I don't know how far back we'll be able to trace them. But yeah, I think it's a legitimate concern, certainly.

CO: It's possible that Egypt might say that these were stolen, and they... and the country might want them back?

JM: To be honest, it's not something we sell often and probably will never sell again. [both chuckle] So I'm not too sure. The buyers are international gallery, and they specialize in antiquities and buy things basically of this sort of value. So they seem much more OK and familiar with the process and the due diligence. So I guess that will come out in time.

CO: So the buyers are an international art gallery. The sellers, how did they react when you told them how much this had sold for?

JM: Well, it was funny, really, because I wouldn't normally, but I thought I better call them after the... after the auction because I didn't want them finding out through gossip or somebody else. And we had about 50 lots from the house, including things from the garden. So I said, oh, I don't know if you realize, but these made 195,000 pounds. There was sort of a silence. And then she said, oh, that's amazing. Did anything else do well? And I said, well, nothing really to that extent. [laughing] Some of the other pots made £1,400, £800 and things. Some lots at auction resell for maybe for £10,000 or £12,000. It's a nice lump of money. You can go to holiday or buy a car, but this is the price of a house. So I think it's kind of a life-changing amount of money for them. So the nice part is they're going to pay off their mortgage and be worry-free in terms of finances. So that's really nice, actually.

CO: All right. Well, this is an incentive for people to go out into the garden or wherever else and say... and question some of the things they might have there, and --

JM: Definitely!

CO: Thanks, James.

JM: Thank you.

CO: Bye-bye.

JM: Thanks. Bye-bye.

CH: James Mander is head auctioneer and valuer at Mander Auctioneers. We reached him in Suffolk, England.

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Bosnia Rotating House

CH: Seems like Vujin Kusic was getting a little frustrated with his wife. So he decided he'd turn the tables. And everything else. Mr. Kusic says his wife was constantly renovating their house. He grew weary of having his life turned upside-down. So he decided he would have it turned clockwise instead. He told Reuters, "I got tired of her complaints and frequent refurbishing of our family house, and I said: “I'll build you a rotating house so you can spin it as you wish.” It's a fascinating project, in spite of its being conceived in spite. A small, two-storey, mint-green house that rotates 360 degrees, to face a cornfield, a forest, a river, a cornfield, a forest, and a river. Oh, that's… that’s probably two complete rotations, now that I think about it. Anyway, it's a remarkable feat of engineering. Although, despite the revolutions, Vujin Kusic insists it's not revolutionary. He humbly says he just had the expertise and the time -- which, incidentally, was six years. Now you're about up to speed. Speaking of which: at its slowest setting, the house will come full circle in 24 hours. At its fastest, it takes just 22 seconds. Which is probably best avoided. Because even when it's turning at a leisurely rate, it's a dizzying achievement.

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Part 2: G20 Afghanistan, Van Gogh Sketches

G20 Afghanistan

Guest: Ms. Dawi

CH: Today, during a virtual summit, the leaders of the G20 agreed to safeguard the rights of women in Afghanistan. But many Afghan women may rightfully wonder how exactly they plan to do that. Since the Taliban took over the country this summer, it has barred women from most jobs and education -- girls can only go to school up to Grade 5. And the new government appears to have little desire to allow women to take part in public life, despite early promises of inclusiveness. Ms. Dawi worked for the Afghan government until a few weeks ago. We agreed not use her first name because she fears for her safety. We reached her in Kabul.

CO: Ms. Dawi, what is your daily life like now under the Taliban?

MS. DAWI: Now, my life is just at home. I'm busy with my email, my reading some books, some small writings and listening to the news, that's all.

CO: When the Taliban took over, many Afghans, people you know, left or tried to leave, and you and your mother decided to stay, to wait and see. What were you hoping would happen? What did you think the Taliban might do?

MD: Because when they come at the first wake in the television, they say we have a general amenity. And also, they say that we learn from our past mistakes, and that all Afghan -- man and woman -- have a chance to they do what they want in the country.

CO: Wow!

MD: So we thought that they will not... we will perhaps... that could not win back the clock at the 1990.

CO: So you were hoping this wasn't the Taliban of the 1990s. And they told you to go back to work. And so, tell us what happened when you did that? You went back on beginning of September to your office. What happened when you got to the door?

MD: When I received the message from coworker, they messaged that all directors can come to meet the new authorities. When I arrived, they're very angry gunmen, the Taliban. Shout at me where are you going? I told them that today they want us. I'm a director. I showed my I.D. card. This is my I.D. card. I'm a director. I'm working here. Today, the minister wants us. He directly say, no, don't go.

CO: The man with a gun said don't... you can't come in?

MD: Yes, yes, directly said, no, don't go. Woman should stay at home until their fate is decided by the Islamic Emirate. I never forget this sentence. Never forget this sentence. And even he not look at me. And very hungry man with gun, he said, no, don't go. Stop! And that time, I lost my heart. So I walked slowly, slowly in one side of the street. I sit for a few minutes. After hearing it, I stand and say, OK, this is our life. What should we do? All the day, I cry and come back home. My mother asked me, why you come back very fast? I said, Mom, they not allow me to... even... even not allow me to enter in the minister. In front of the door, they say, go away. Go away.

CO: And this man said that your fate is now to be decided by the Islamic Emirate? That's what the message was?

MD: Yes.

CO: And what about... what about your mother? Is she able to go back to work?

MD: She's a teacher in the high school. They promised to her that one day, you will start your job again, but not yet. She's still at home like me. No job, no responsibility, nothing.

CO: And no money.

MD: Of course, no money if there is no job. So how are we going to find money?

CO: How are you going to survive?

MD: Well, when I was in my job, and my mother also, we save some money for us. And also, I'm a co-founder of the Dawi Educational Center. The Dawi Educational Center also helped me sometimes. However, in Kabul, everything is very expensive, very expensive.

CO: We know that the Western leaders, the G20, are meeting today to discuss how to perhaps give funding back to Afghanistan, even though the Taliban is in power. What do you want them to know? What is the message you would like to deliver to Western leaders who are meeting today?

MD: My clear message will be this: that, please, please, help Afghan womans. Please raise our voice. Afghan woman now in the struggle for dear life. I want to raise my voice to all the world to help Afghan women to, again, start our job and other girls go to school, university, like other women in other countries they have. We want this, so we do not problem with a hijab. We can do this, but at least allow us to go to school, go to university and do our job.

CO: You wrote in an article that was published in The Washington Post, you said to the world, how can you now leave us to a regime that wants to turn our country into a concentration camp for women?

MD: Yes, yes, how? How they can? Even we are also your sisters, all women are sisters. So I'm sure when a woman, when a lady in every country, in every point of the world, she’s suffering a bad situation, I'm same like her. Sware, sware. Because of this, I'm writing this letter for all... all women in the world that help Afghan woman. Raise our voice before we lose our voice.

CO: You're asking us, you’re asking women in the world to think, to imagine what it would be like if tomorrow, I couldn't go to work. All the women that I work with were told, you can't come to work, you can't come in. All the girls who were going to school were told, you can't come to school. All the students were told, go home. You're asking us to imagine that, aren't you?

MD: Yeah, we want a just a normal life like other women in other countries, they have. We are human, and we just want a normal life for ourself. I also... I have a commitment my country to serve the people, serve the womans. But now how can I do? How to do?

CO: But do you have any hope that you will be able to return to work?

MD: I hope so one day. I hope so. But when I'm seeing the situation, when I'm seeing the Taliban news every day, I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

CO: Ms. Dawi, I hope you return to work. And I think it's... it's good to hear your voice and to let others hear what women like you in Afghanistan are going through. Thank you.

MD: Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, I appreciate.

CO: Goodbye.

MD: Goodbye.

CH: Ms. Dawi worked for the Afghan government until the Taliban took over. We are only using her last name for her safety. She was in Kabul. And you can find more on this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: bright acoustic guitar]

FOA: Megan Rice Obit

CH: Even after Megan Rice was freed, she didn't feel free. She once said, "None of us is out of prison as long as one nuclear bomb exists." For decades, the Roman Catholic nun protested against nuclear weapons. But her most publicized act of protest came when she was 82 years old. In the summer of 2012, she and two others broke into a government complex in Tennessee known as the "Fort Knox of Uranium." The security breach led to congressional hearings in Washington -- and landed her in prison for two years. Megan Rice died earlier this month. She was 91. In 2015, after those two years in prison, Sister Rice was released -- following a successful appeal in which a judge said the government had overreached. She spoke with Carol soon after that and recalled how she broke into the complex.

SOUNDCLIP

SISTER MEGAN RICE: It took us about two hours to climb the ridge because we zigzagged, and it was going through woods, and there was no path. We found the first fence in the... sort of in the middle of the woods somewhere, and then we passed through that. And then once we got to the top of the ridge, you could see the whole place lighted up like daylight, and it was about it, let us say, 4:30 in the morning. So we were able to to easily cut through with metal clippers, whatever we call them, and just simple clippers. And each fence took only five minutes at the most because I looked at my watch when it was quarter to five, and it was... so we had gotten in by quarter of five. And then we began, and I would say that we finished all that we had planned to do in the way of communicating the truth by symbols in about 20 minutes, we began to see... we were finished and then we began to see this security van slowly driving in from the extreme left side of the very long warehouse, which is the highly enriched uranium materials facility.

CO: OK, so you got to the... the building in which highly enriched uranium, bomb-grade uranium, is stored. And you had 20 minutes of putting... you put human blood on the building.

MR: Symbols.

CO: Symbols, but there were banners. There were things that you... and you had 20 minutes to do that before one car came to find you?

SMR: I can't be exact on that. It could have been less because we could do what we did. It was all so simple.

CO: The judge, the two that you had to be... that you were before, the three of you, said that you broke the law. Had you spent as much effort trying to change the law as breaking the law, maybe you could have accomplished something. What do you say to him?

SMR: People have been spending 70 years trying to change the legislation and trying to introduce and trying to be sure that the United States signed international... and so, therefore, the law, we did not break any international law which supersedes the United States Constitution. And you know, if it is a law, you don't obey a law that's unjust.

CO: You spent two years in jail. Did you have any regrets during that time?

MR: Not at all. It was... it was a privilege and a gift. I mean, I... of course, I have regrets about the Bureau of Prisons and the way they conduct things. But certainly not. It was a privilege to be there at my age and to be able to live with those women.

CH: From our archives, that was anti-nuclear activist Sister Megan Rice, speaking with Carol back in May of 2015. She died earlier this month, at 91.

[music: world music]

Van Gogh Sketches

Guest: Bregje Gerritse

CH: In a dark room, barely lit by an overhead lamp, five unglamorous people sit around a table drinking tea and eating potatoes. And despite its prosaic title -- The Potato Eaters -- Vincent Van Gogh felt it was a groundbreaking painting. Problem was, in 1885, no one else agreed. Now, that painting is the subject of a new exhibit at the Van Gogh Museum in Amsterdam. The Potato Eaters: Mistake or Masterpiece? is s a collection of never-seen-before drawings, sketches and letters -- all telling the story of that one, once-controversial painting. Bregje Gerritse is the curator of the exhibit and a researcher at the Van Gogh Museum. We reached her in Amsterdam.

CO: Bregje, as you know, most people, when they think of Van Gogh, they think of sunflowers and stars, but The Potato Eaters is different. How would you describe it?

BREGJE GERRTSE: OK, so The Potato Eaters is something that Van Gogh made during the first half of his career, which he spent in the Netherlands. So it's a much darker picture than we're used to then. And it's a crude painting, a figure painting, of five peasants sitting around the dinner table. They’re in a typical Dutch interior. And there's a dish of potatoes, steaming hot potatoes, on the table, and there's coffee being served as well. It's a very dark painting with a single light source, which is an oil lamp, hanging above the table.

CO: What did he think of the painting?

BG: So, for Van Gogh, this was really a very ambitious piece. He wanted to send it to the yearly Salon, which is the most important exhibition for visual artists in Paris. And since it was really struck by this idea, in the end, he wasn't in time even for this exhibition, but he did decide to make sort of a showpiece or a masterwork, as you could call it. And that was The Potato Eaters. So for him, this painting really needed to show everything, all of the skills that he had mastered as a painter during the first five years of his artistic career. And he really hoped to make a successful entrance in the Parisian art market, and especially, he wanted to introduce himself as the painter of peasant life. So, for him, not the technical perfection was what he was after with this painting, but more than a message about the raw, honest, hard-working life of these peasants. And I actually have a very nice quote from one of his letters where he says about The Potato Eaters, and I quote, “It might well prove to be a real peasant painting. I know that it is, but anyone who would rather see insipidly pretty peasants can go ahead. For my part, I'm convinced that in the long run, it produces better results to paint them in their coarseness than to introduce conventional sweetness.”

CO: Such a strong view, such a strong connection he had to this painting. But he found that his friends, buyers, art critics, even his brother, Theo, disagreed with him. What reaction did he get to this painting?

BG: As I said, he really hoped to break through and make an entrance on the art market, but the opposite was true. So this painting was not well received. It was never actually exhibited anywhere in Paris, and it ended up hanging unsold above Theo's mantelpiece in his Parisian apartment. And that's because, of course, the painting was very, very different from the traditional painting style that was going on. And also very different from what was happening in Paris at the time, which was Impressionism. So painting was very bright, really colourful, which is completely different from Van Gogh was doing. And a very harsh critic was his one of his very good friends, the painter Anthon van Rappard. And he wrote to Vincent. He wrote that he couldn't believe how nonchalant he had treated his painting, and there were so many technical mistakes. How could he seriously mean that this painting was meant for Paris? So I think that really took him by surprise.

CO: And just, we’ll point out that you are saying Van Gogh, and I'm saying Van Gogh only because I'm signalling this, that the conventional way in Canada is to say Van Gogh. So… [laughing] but I know you're saying it correctly. But in any event, how did Van Gogh, how did he respond to this reaction, especially this harsh criticism from his friend.

BG: So Van Gogh really said, for me, the message is much more important than the technical perfection. Of course, there are mistakes in the figures. But he says, “I really focussed on the faces and the hands, and I do believe that there is a certain life in it, is what he said.” So he really stands by it. And this is also shown by something he writes in a letter a couple of years later. And this is when he himself has moved to Paris. He's been introduced to Impressionism, and he's changed his own palette and his own way of working to the colourful works that are so famous today. But still, he writes to his sister, Wilhelmina, that after all, his Potato Eaters is the best thing he did.

CO: So then why did he in later years and his last stretch of life before his death? Why did he decide that he wanted to redo the painting if he was so confident that he'd got it right?

BG: I actually think his idea of redoing the painting once again shows how important the subject was for him. And it's more of an approval of this earlier work is one of my most important ones, and I want to come back to it. But it definitely doesn't mean that he wasn't content with the painting -- actually, the opposite. So you have to imagine when he's thinking of redoing the painting, he's living in Arles and Saint-Remy-de-Provence, which is in the south of France. It's five years later. It's the end of his artistic career. Of course, he doesn't know that yet, but still. He's improved or changed so much over the past five years, and he now paints in a very colourful, very bold way. And he hasn't been home to the north or the Netherlands for five years, and he's really longing for home and thinking of his hometown. And that's when he thinks of redoing these peasant themes. And that's when he makes several drawings actually of peasants sitting around the table, and you can see coffee as well as potatoes and a lot of references to The Potato Eaters, although in the end, he never really makes a new painted version.

CO: Bregje, I appreciate you telling us this, and we're going to post information online so people can find out how to see it [chuckling] if they should be so lucky to be able to go and see the actual show.

BG: Wonderful!

CO: And thank you.

BG: Thank you so much. It was wonderful to talk to you.

CO: Bye-bye.

BG: Thank you.

CH: Bregje Gerritse is the curator of a new exhibit at the Van Gogh Museum called The Potato Eaters: Mistake or Masterpiece? She was in Amsterdam. And you can find more on this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: jazz]

Meteorite In Bed

CH: Last Sunday, Ruth Hamilton had to make an odd call to 911. The Golden, British Columbia woman was sleeping when something crashed through her roof. She had no idea what it was, until she moved the pillow she had been sleeping on. She told CBC Vancouver what happened.

SOUNDCLIP

RUTH HAMILTON: [laughing] Yeah, I was sound asleep in bed, and the dog barked a couple of times. I don't know if he heard the bang or apparently the sound of the meteorite coming through the sky. And then the next thing, It was just a huge explosion and debris all over my face from the drywall. And, yeah, I jumped out of bed and turned off the light. And, yeah, was shaking really badly. And I didn't see the meteorite at the very beginning. I didn't know what else to do, so I called 9-1-1. And talking to the operator, she was asking me all kinds of questions. And at that point, I rolled back one of the two pillows I was sleeping on, and in between them was the meteorite. They sent an RCMP officer over. He came in and he thought it might have been blasting from the Highway One project. I'm probably 10 kilometres as the crow flies, so it seemed a little exaggerated. But he called up there and they said that they had not done any blasting that night, but the workers had seen a meteorite, a falling star explode, and there was a couple of booms also that went along with it. So... so then we... we knew that it was a meteorite that had crashed through my roof.

CH: That was Ruth Hamilton speaking with CBC Vancouver reporter Yvette Brend about the meteorite that crashed through her roof while she was sleeping last Sunday. Ms. Hamilton also reported it to a team of experts at the University of Western Ontario, who confirmed it was indeed a meteorite.

[music: acoustic guitar]

Part 3: Ontario Highest Vax Community, World Porridge Champ

SK Essential Worker

CH: Matthew Cardinal knows what it's like to be seriously ill with COVID-19. It happened to him in March. And he wishes customers at the restaurant he works at in Saskatchewan could understand. Since the province began requiring proof of vaccination at the end of September, some patrons have tried to show him fake papers. A few have been downright belligerent. He spoke to CBC Saskatchewan about what he went through when he was sick -- and what he's facing now.

SOUNDCLIP

MATTHEW CARDINAL: My brother, my sister, [beginning to cry] they're so... sorry…. heartbroken because they thought it'd be the last time they ever see me in the ICU. So, yeah, it was really hard for everybody to see me in the hospital and the ICU. My brother and sister at the time only got five minutes each to see me through the glass. I wasn't... I wasn't awake to see my brother. But my sister, I was miraculously awake and trying to talk to her with the intubation in me and tubes coming out of my mouth like I'm... it was tough. [sniffles] Sometimes, I just wanted to slip away because it was just... it was traumatic, it was hell. To this day, I'm still struggling with it. My lungs are still severely damaged five months out, like it's... I have to see a respirologist soon, and I'm hoping... I'm hoping I get better news coming. Most of it is good. Most people know and understand. But then there's some people that throw tantrums, and they get angry. And yesterday, I was threatened to get punched out. Like, and I'm just looking at the guy. I'm like, Dude, like, I'm sorry. Like, this is ridiculous. I said you cannot come here anymore. And it was very confrontational. Like, I was trying to defuse the situation. So I had to walk out of the bar. He walked with me. I had to show him to a few co-workers, and said, this guy is banned. My boss talked to him and said he's banned as well. And the guy was just flipping out, walking... like leaving. And I'm like, I'm like, oh my God. And it made me worried for, like, how many more service workers are dealing with this on a daily basis? Like, if someone doesn't have backbone out there, how are they coping with this? Like, there's next to no supports. [sigh] It worries me is what it does. To me, it's... it's very personal because for someone who's experienced the worst of it and still experiencing the worst of it, I'm... it's for everyone's safety, right? It's my safety. It's my co-workers safety. It's customer safety overall. Like, we're given these simple rules to follow for safety. It's to get people vaccinated, so we... so we don't have these crazy outbreaks. So there's no more Matthew Cardinals in the ICU. There's no more strangers that are being intubated, people that are dying. It's it frustrates me a bit, and I have to keep telling myself, don't take it personal. You're just doing your job. But down the road, I don't want people going through what I did.

CH: That was Matthew Cardinal, a restaurant worker in Saskatchewan, speaking to CBC reporter Yasmine Ghania.

[music: banjo]

Ontario Highest Vax Community

Guest: Dr. Paula Stewart

CH: While some parts of Canada are lagging behind, others are winning the vaccine race. In Ontario, the region of Leeds, Grenville, and Lanark is at the front of the pack. The area in Eastern Ontario has vaccinated 92 percent of eligible residents, and 97 percent have received one dose. That's 10 percentage points above the provincial average. Which is an impressive accomplishment, especially given the pushback from one of the country's most prominent anti-vaxxers. Dr. Paula Stewart is the medical officer of health for Leeds, Grenville, and Lanark. We reached her in Smiths Falls, Ontario.

CO: Dr. Stewart, how does it feel to see your community, Leeds, Grenville and Lanark, leading the pack in Ontario for vaccinations?

DR. PAULA STEWART: Yeah. You know, it's not so much leading the pack as every single time someone gets the vaccine, it means that they're protecting themselves, protecting their household and the community. And that's what's... that's what's really important to me, that so many people have come forward to get two doses of the vaccine. And I am absolutely thrilled with the response by our community.

CO: All right. There was this response from the community wasn't as they all just more than any place else, they decided they're going to get vaccinated. This was a mobilization, wasn't it? And I... just to give some of the numbers here. You have fully vaccinated 92 per cent of those eligible, 97 per cent have had one dose. For fully vaccinated, Ontario's average is 10 points less than you. So this is… if everyone got all those numbers, this is very successful. How did you do it?

DPS: Yeah. So I think…. I was thinking back on it. And every Tuesday morning, for many, many weeks, there were 40 to 45 of us met to plan the vaccine program. All of our partners, so hospitals, health care providers, social services, people who ran group homes. And I think that's... that's the genesis, that's the nidus of it, is that it really was a community effort. But we have a lot of smaller towns. So between... we had four fixed sites, and then we had another 11 municipalities that put their hand up and say, we will help you come here to give a clinic. So we had... we had 15 sites all across Lanark, Leeds and Grenville that were offering vaccines to people. So we made it accessible. And by involving so much of the community, it means that so many people said, oh, I'm going to help with the vaccine clinic. Have you got your vaccine yet? Do you know what I mean? Then we said to municipalities, tell us about an event that is happening, that we could come and do a vaccine clinic. So we did them at the Brockville Speedway. Businesses opened their doors to us. So the Giant Tiger in Johnstown said, come here. You'll be able to do our employees, and we'll open it to the community.

CO: You also, I guess, you said, talked about this hub of the 40 to 45 people who met, and then all kinds of people who participated in that, including a small army of volunteers who would phone neighbours and say, get over there, we got… we got some doses left over there now. A guy walking his dog nearby said, come on in, you got to get your vaccine.

DPS: And there's..., and we had volunteers who... who, like four or five clinics, managed all the parking volunteers, right? All the cars coming in and out and everything. And we had the paramedics who reached out to people who were homebound, who had chronic health problems. So we really... I think that that group of people, that planning group, really had a good sense about what was going on in the community so that we could be flexible and adapt to where the community would.

CO: There's another element you haven't mentioned. Every time we have done a story about success with vaccinations, it's because the population trusted those who are giving them the information. And that they... because there this is counter-movement that... largely through social media and Facebook telling people all kinds of horror stories that's feeding into vaccine hesitancy. But it seems that your community believed you and trusted you. Did you sense that?

DPS: Yes, very much. We had the health unit. We have an amazing team here that really works so well with all of our partners. And from the very beginning, we had a dedicated communication team that we built up to be able to respond to any questions about the pandemic, whether it was what the symptoms are, whether it's how serious it can be, whether it was a mask and what their value are. So we have been very intentional about providing information to the public in a way that they can interpret it, and that gives them the opportunity to be able to consider the evidence and make a decision about it.

CO: You had amongst those who were pushing back, probably one of the most prominent anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers in Ontario, none other than the the Your MPP for Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, Randy Hillier, who is well-known to reject all of these. He's a big anti-vaxxer. And you took him on, right? You answered his... his letters directly. Is that right?

DPS: Early on, yes. And then... and basically we kept to our role. Our role was, as I said, to provide the information with science-based information. We just stuck to that. That was our job.

CO: What does it say to you that the person who's elected to represent people in your area didn't have as much influence as you did over the population?

DPS: [laughing] Oh, interesting. Possibly you're right.

CO: What do you think of that?

DPS: It's my role as medical officer of health to serve the public, and that's what we did. And we just... we just kept on with it. That... that line and listened to the people. And if they had questions, answered the question straight up. I think that was just that we just respected the people and gave them the important science-based information.

CO: I think you're being modest. You're a very good communicator, so I think that had something to do with it. [both chuckle] And so, OK, just finally, what has all this meant to actual... I mean, what's the... the... the evidence you can point to as to what has happened with the infection rates in your region?

DPS: Yeah. So we had very low rates of new cases. And if... if we do have a new infection, then they're really just spreading with people who aren't immunized or within a household that you have a lot of exposure to the virus, even if you're vaccinated. And we know that, right? The vaccine is 88 per cent effective at preventing symptomatic disease. So we're actually seeing that play out in terms of the number of new infections. And it's interesting. I read the... the information on... on new infections that we have so I can understand what's happening in the community. And there was... there was one fellow who said he didn't want to get vaccinated, and he had COVID, and it was not nice. And so he told his people around him in his household go get the vaccine. So, it's playing itself out that way, too.

CO: Dr. Stewart, it is a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you.

DPS: Oh, thank you. Really appreciate the support the media have given us is phenomenal to help to get the message out. So thank you also.

CO: All right. Take care.

DPS: OK, bye-bye.

CH: Dr. Paula Stewart is the medical officer of health for Leeds, Grenville, and Lanark. We reached her in Smiths Falls, Ontario.

[music: acoustic guitar]

Captain’s Log: Shatner In Space

CH: To boldly go where no one -- except a billionaire and his friends -- have gone before. It was 55 years ago that William Shatner first played Captain Kirk on "Star Trek". And now, the Canadian actor himself will reach that final frontier in real life -- as part of a four-person crew heading to space with Jeff Bezos's Blue Origin company. Mr. Shatner is 90 years old. And his imminent four minutes of weightlessness will make him the oldest person ever to reach space. Here's how William Shatner described his feelings about the journey.

SOUNDCLIP

WILLIAM SHATNER: This is no piece of cake, but we've delayed 24 hours because of the winds and the enormous concern for our safety. And [laughing] we welcome that concern. It's... you know, it's a combination of... of... of things. It's not all terror, although there's some bubbling elements... elements of that. But also, I’m thoroughly versed in the safety of what we're doing. And we've been spending days here in and out of these very difficult chairs. It's a great workout getting in and out of these prone chairs. And... and we've been lectured and told about the safety procedures. And so, that adds an element of surcease from the niggling elements of dangers. I feel comfortable that I'm also uncomfortable. I'll be very happy when we go up and... and we're in weightlessness and we know we're safe because everything else should be all right. And we have that moment of inspiration, which I feel will be there when we're looking into the vastness of the... of the universe. What I also think is important to remember the Jeff Bezos’ concept of doing all this is to build industry, homes, to live in close connection with Earth and... and function close to Earth. And that's a vision that I think is very practical and worth getting behind. I want to see space. I want to see the Earth. I want to see what we need to do to save Earth. I want to have a perspective that hasn't been shown to me before. That's what I'm interested in seeing.

HOST: William Shatner, astronaut. How's the sound of that?

WS: Small “a”, followed by two “s”’. [laughing all around]

CH: Ninety-year-old William Shatner speaking on Good Morning America today. Weather permitting, he will be in space, the final frontier, tomorrow morning on the Blue Origin spacecraft.

[music: 70’s groove beat]

World Porridge Champ

Guest: Miriam Groot

CH: It's not the Super Bowl. But it is a crucial annual bowl game. As all sports, and breakfast fans know, this weekend, the 28th annual Golden Spurtle World Porridge Making Championship took place -- virtually, unfortunately. Contestants from around the world competed to see whose creative porridge recipe would reign supreme. And this year's winner in the specialty category stretched the definition of porridge in some very interesting ways -- using some very interesting ingredients. Miriam Groot is a Dutch food blogger and the winner of this year's Golden Spurtle. We reached her in Eindhoven, the Netherlands.

CO: Miriam, congratulations on winning the Golden Spurtle World Porridge Making Championship.

MIRIAM GROOT: Thank you! [chuckling]

CO: Did you really make porridge? [laughing] How... some might not call this porridge. How would you describe it.

MG: Well, the dish that I made for the Championship is not actually porridge because the category was a speciality dish, so you can do anything with oatmeal. And I used silkwood oats to make arancini, which is a Sicilian dish made of risotto. And it's... it's actually just deep-fried risotto balls. And, well, that's what I made, but with steel cut oats.

CO: OK, but it wasn't... You put in more than that because the... the arancini was, of course, not made with rice, made with... with this oatmeal. And what else did you put in your dish?

MG: I used mushrooms. I used a vegan cheese. I made the recipe vegan because I'm vegan. So I also used a vegan wine and some thyme, some vegetable stock just to make... to make the risotto. And then I rolled the balls in breadcrumbs. [chuckle] And that's pretty much it.

CO: Then fried it.

MG: Deep fried, yeah.

CO: That… [laughing] that's the key thing. It has to be... now --

MG: Deep frying makes everything good.

CO: How did you come up with this recipe?

MG: Well, it’s an existing recipe from Sicily, but I actually made an e-book about oats [chuckling] because I love how you can use them in so many ways. I made this for my platform. It’s called www.theveggierepoter.com. It's... it's a blog. Snd I make recipes and take food photos. And this was one of the recipes that is actually in the e-book, so. [chuckling]

CO And so, you won with this one. It's interesting some of the runners up that... because you'd expect at least one porridge award winner would come from Scotland, and there is. The Hebridean Baker was one of... the close second runner up to you, and with a baked oat Alaska. Made with honey, oat, raspberry sponge topped with pinhead... or I guess, like a steel cut oatmeal brittle ice cream, chocolate ice cream and a baked meringue. That was his oat contribution. What do you make of that?

MG: It looked so good. Yeah, it looks so good. I actually was surprised that he did not win because it made my mouth water. I really wanted to try it, but make my own vegan version of it. [chuckling] But, yeah, they chose me, I guess.

CO: Now the other interesting thing you just mentioned that you looked so good. And the judges had to just look at these dishes, right? They couldn't taste them because of the COVID restrictions. So, how was the judging actually performed?

MG: They looked at innovation and taste. Well, we had to send in videos because it was hosted online this year. And they just... in innovation and taste, and I guess it just made them hungry. [laughing] I don't know? They looked at videos that made them want to try the recipe. And they really wanted to try my, I think.

CO: Uh-huh. And why did you want to enter this international porridge competition?

MG: I mean, why... why not? It's a... it's a championship in porridge making. It just sounds amazing. And when I heard…. when I heard... when I found out about it, I thought, I really have to participate in this. This... this is just amazing.

CO: We should point out there was... placing seventh was someone from... from Canada, Bridget Young, who was placed for her fluffy banana oat pancakes served with blueberry compote, which sounds very traditional and very Canadian. [laughing] And so did... did you see that video as well?

MG: I saw it. Yeah, it looked really good. I actually want to try that, too.

CO: And now, to make… but all of these are not vegan ones that we're referring to besides yours. And so, could all these be changed into vegan recipes, in your view?

MG: Yeah, it's really easy for me as I've been vegan for about five years now, and I... and I work with food all the time as I'm a recipe developer, so I really know how to replace specific items like milk. I use a plant milk. But for eggs, I also have this lists of ingredients and I can use as a replacement. So, I think it's easy, but sometimes, it will be a little bit of a struggle, but it will always work.

CO: And it seems... so you're... you're steel cut oatmeal or pin... pinhead oatmeal, I’ve never heard that used, but that's what you used in place of the rice. Do you think that there are people who will try your recipe?

MG: I hope so. People said they will. So, [chuckling] will you try you?

CO: I'm very... I don't like deep fried too much, but I think this one, I might actually try because it's got so many things I love in it. And so, will you go in the competition again, do you think?

MG: Oh yeah, I hope so. I really want to attend the contest in Scotland next year, yeah.

CO: In-person this time.

MG: Yeah, I mean, for me, it feels like kind of the Olympics of porridge making. [CO chuckles] I just really want to go there.

CO: There’s another one, The Flower Duet, porridge made with two porridges -- a pineapple and lime porridge and a raspberry and lemon porridge. That... that's... that one sounds really intriguing, too.

MG: Yeah, the combination sounds so good.

CO: But do you think that there's still room for traditional porridge, or do you think that that... those days are gone?

MG: Well, the actual competition that is held in Scotland, they have a category for a traditional porridge. And you can adjust the taste, of course, but then you just make up for it. And the other thing is a speciality dish like the one we made this year. But now, for... for the online competition, they just did only this speciality. So in real-life, in real-time in Scotland, they will definitely make room for this traditional porridge.

CO: Can there be that many different ways to make porridge?

MG: Well, I'm not sure. I... I know that in Scotland, they only use oats and water and a pinch of salt.

CO: Yup!

MG: So, I make mine with the water, half of it replaced with a plant milk. And some people use yoghurt, I think, too. So there's... there's some, [chuckling] some variations in it.

CO: [chuckling] All right.

MG: And then I guess you just use spices to make it yours.

CO: I can see why they introduce this new category. [ both laughing]

MG: Right?

CO: Exhausting the possibilities very quickly on the porridge.

MG: [laughing] Yeah.

CO: It's great to talk to you, Miriam. And, again, congratulations.

MG: Well, thank you so much.

CO: Bye.

MG: Bye-bye.

CH: Miriam Groot is the winner of the Golden Spurtle World Porridge Making Championship. We reached her in Eindhoven, Netherlands. You can find more on that story -- including a picture of the lemon zest, mushroom, and white wine porridge balls -- on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: jazz]

Guy Fed Up With Boss

CH: Sometimes it's the little things that make the difference. Like the little thing in the word 'it's' that magically converts the two words 'it' and 'is' into one word -- meaning "it is". But take that little floating comma out and it's another its entirely. So it's clear that it's important to put an apostrophe in its rightful place. Just ask Anthony Zadravic. Last year, the Australian realtor was fed up with his boss, who he says failed to deliver on mandated contributions to his employee retirement fund. So, he called that employer out by name on Facebook. Which was his first mistake. "Oh Stuart Gan!!" he wrote. "Selling multi million $ homes in Pearl Beach but can't pay his employees superannuation. Shame on you Stuart!!! 2 yrs and still waiting!!!" Lots of exclamation points, but a very key missing apostrophe in the word "employees". So instead of meaning one employee's superannuation -- his -- it read as plural: "employees". Stuart Gan has now filed a defamation claim. And a judge has allowed it to proceed, saying that absent apostrophe makes it seem like Mr. Zadravic was accusing Mr. Gan of "a systematic pattern of conduct", instead of issuing one personal grumble with too many exclamation points. That could ultimately cost Mr. Zadravic a couple hundred thousand dollars. Especially in a country some call "the defamation capital of the world". Which suggests that even though he left out a crucial apostrophe, he's not the only one who's missing the mark.

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October 12, 2021 Episode Transcript

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