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The AIH Transcript For October 08, 2021

[hosts]Carol Off, Chris Howden[/hosts]

CAROL Off: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

[music: theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

CO: Reporting for duty. The Russian journalist Dmitri Muratov shares the Nobel Peace Prize -- but one of his colleagues tells us that doesn't mean their jobs as independent journalists are going to get any safer.

CH: Static electricity. A tardigrade that's been trapped in amber for 16 million years is obviously not moving -- but its surprise discovery was deeply moving to the scientist we'll speak with.

CO: A load of rubbish. When he went bird-watching in Manila Bay, our guest was horrified to see a layer of plastic garbage -- and now, he’s warning the pollution threatens the entire coastal ecosystem.

CH: Something Wickenheiser this way comes. Only one person on Earth is a doctor, a hockey legend, and a four-time Olympic gold medal winner -- so you'll probably want to hear Hayley Wickenheister talk to Carol about the lessons she's learned.

CO: If you can't stand the reheat, get out of the kitchen. The late Bob Schiffmann thought outside the box when it came to what happened inside the box -- which is how he expanded the possibilities of your microwave oven.

CH: And… the sticking point was the sticking point. A biologist was disappointed when the camera he attached to a marine mammal for research fell off -- and stunned when that camera was recovered, three-and-a-half-years later.

CH: As It Happens, the Friday edition. Radio that guesses he figured its fate was seal-ed.

[music: theme]

Part 1: Russian Nobel Peace Prize, Lost And Found Seal Camera, Microwave Innovator Obit

Russian Nobel Peace Prize

Guest: Elena Milashina

CH: This morning in Stockholm, the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to the Philippines' Maria Ressa and Russia's Dmitri Muratov for their, quote,"courageous fight for freedom of expression, a precondition for democracy and lasting peace." Unquote. In a moment we'll hear from Maria Ressa, but we begin with Mr. Muratov. It is now almost 30 years since he co-founded the independent news outlet Novaya Gazeta. Reporting the truth in Russia has been growing more dangerous ever since. Here is Dmitri Muratov speaking with Carol through a translator in 2009.

SOUNDCLIP

DIMITRI MURATOV: [speaking Russian]

TRANSLATION: In the eight years, seven people, seven colleagues, have died. That's a lot. That's war. First of all, Igor Domnikov, was killed a few years ago by a contract killer. He was a wonderful, brilliant journalist. Then my deputy and a senator, Yuri Shchekochikhin, was delving into corruption, was murdered. We think he was poisoned. Then, there was the monstrous killing of Anna Politkovskaya. Then, just this year, on January 19th, neo-Nazis, we think it’s neo-Nazis, killed our lawyer, Stanislav Markelov. And at the same time, someone happened to be with him, a very young journalist, an intern, actually, Anastasia Baburova. And I can also say now it's known that Natalia Estemirova, who was essentially our source, our main source in Chechnya, and Anna Politkovskaya’s source, was also murdered there this year. During this entire time, only one of these murders was solved, and it's the one of Igor Domnikov, but the people who ordered it have not been uncovered. And, in fact, the reason is that they're highly-placed officials.

CH: That was Dmitri Muratov, the editor-in-chief of Novaya Gazeta, speaking with Carol in 2009. Elena Milashina is an investigative reporter with Novaya Gazeta. We reached her in Moscow.

CO: Elena, congratulations to your news agency, Novaya Gazeta.

ELENA MILASHINA: Thank you so much. Thank you.

CO: How are your colleagues? How is Dmitri Muratov and the rest of your colleagues? How are they reacting to the news?

EM: Well, I think all of us kind of shocked because we didn't expect... for many years, Novaya Gazeta was on the list of Nobel Prize committee. And every year, at the same time, people called us and were asking if we're going to receive this prize? And, well, we say, of course, no, because it's just a big prize [chuckle] and we're a small newspaper from Russia. But suddenly, we got it. And I think it's the most well-deserved prize. And he is one of the greatest Russians that Russia ever had in her history. And today, this recognition of his great impact on Russian media, on Russian freedom of speech, is recognized. And I'm very, very happy about it.

CO: And that's what the Nobel Committee said when they announced this award. They said it was an award for free, independent and fact-based journalism that serves to protect against abuse of power, lies and propaganda. And as you mentioned, this is something that's very much under attack in Russia, the independent media, the free speech. What message does this send to Russia given that the Nobel Committee has given this award to Novaya Gazeta?

EM: That the situation with freedom of speech is really bad in Russia and is getting worse from year to year. And I actually don't remember the times when the Russian journalists were protected by the government. When I became a journalist, the Finnish school, the very famous journalist Vladislav Listyev for when Yeltsin was president, was killed. And his murder was not investigated. And this real Russian tradition started from back then. And now, it's getting worse and worse when the Russian journalist is named as supporting agents for doing their job. And I don't know what kind of message the Russian sources will hear from this prize? But for Russian journalists, probably it's kind of a little hope that things might change or Russian journalism will survive. I don't know? Russian government is very unpredictable.

CO: We got a little hint as to how the Russian government of Vladimir Putin feels about this award because within hours of the announcement from the Nobel Committee, you had another news organization, Bellingcat, and nine journalists, including one from the BBC, also now declared as foreign agents, which is something the Russian government is doing to journalists, meaning that they're under scrutiny and they must file detailed reports and could face deportation at any time. So what kind of message do you think that Russia's Justice Ministry is sending with that?

EM: Well, I think they were just doing the job they ordered to do to put on those that all the independent Russian journalists and foreign journalists and the NGO people, human rights defenders. And among those people, a very close friend of mine and of Novaya Gazeta and many other Russian newspapers and the media, Galina Arapova, a human rights defender and media defender. She went with me to Chechnya many times in the court when they had trials against me, initiated by the Chechen soldiers. She was never afraid of these trips. She protected other journalists of Novaya Gazeta and many other Russian journalists. She is our defender. And she got on this list today. It's a terrible news for me personally, for many other Russian journalists personally, because they managed to spoil this day, the joy of this day, by those news and actions.

CO: Do you think they did so deliberately? They... this is the message they want to send to all of you?

EM: No, I think they got this place before, and they didn't expect that Mr. Muratov will receive a Nobel Prize, but they didn't stop this stupid job that actually put in danger all the Russian journalists and protect the killers of this journalist because, well, we never were in the great protection in Russia. But now we are in great danger by the Russian government that does the same things actually that the killers of journalists do.

CO: Do you think that this award, getting the Nobel prize, puts you in more danger?

EM: No, I think that the level of danger is the same very high level as it was before. Maybe it will protect Novaya Gazeta because it's kind of geared to... to put it on the list of foreign agents. The newspaper, whose editor is Nobel Prize awardee. But [chuckle] the Russian government is able of everything. So I just don't know.

CO: Now, Dmitri Muratov, he mentioned in his statements that journalists for Novaya Gazeta who have been murdered because of doing their work. And we have spoken to you in the past about just how threatening it is, how scary it can be to be... do what you do. Why do you and the others keep going, knowing how dangerous it is for you?

EM: Well, I chose this profession, and I want to continue it until my newspaper is alive and I have an opportunity to... to tell people the truth. Ah, I think the other way... it means that you will not have the life you choose. You will have the life that somebody did the choice for you instead of you. And it's not the life, actually, it's just a miserable thing. And my colleagues and me personally not agree with this. We are the people who decide ourselves, and we take the risks and we continue our work. And that makes sense then to a life, in my opinion.

CO: Elena, I admire your courage. And again, congratulations to all of you at Novaya Gazeta.

EM: Thank you.

CO: Thank you.

EM: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Bye-bye.

CH: Elena Milashina is an investigative reporter with Novaya Gazeta. We reached her in Moscow. Today's other Nobel Peace Prize recipient was Maria Ressa, the co-founder of the independent news outlet The Rappler in The Philippines. The Rappler's fearless journalism has repeatedly earned Ms. Ressa the ire of President Rodrigo Duterte. Maria Ressa spoke with Carol in 2019 after being released on bail, for one of the many charges she's had to face.

SOUNDCLIP

MR: In the last year, I've had a slew of cases that we are fighting in court. And in the last less than two months, I posted bail six times. Today is the sixth time I've done that, so it's been pretty unrelenting.

CO: I understand that they said to the person who was trying to record the arrest is that you don't want to be next?

MR: That's it. You know, it's like, be silent or else you're going to be next. That's a threat. And I was so proud of our reporter because she just came right back and said, I'm doing my job, and she kept rolling and posted it online.

CO: just... just on the case itself. The charges are of cyber libel, as you mentioned, and they are about a businessman and his alleged ties to a former judge. But this... these reports that you did, that was done before this cyber libel law came into effect, right?

MR: That's correct. And it just... it shocks me that it even gets beyond this. You can apply a law retroactively. It just shakes the foundation of the constitution. In the last few months, what we've seen is really legal acrobatics to find something that they... that the government could file that would be criminal, that would require an arrest warrant. So, it's crazy, but I'm living through it. And, you know, sometimes I think I'm Alice in Wonderland and I've gone down the rabbit hole, but I'll just keep going through until I come out the other side.

CO: What message does this send to other journalists in the Philippines?

MR: Be afraid. I'm a cautionary tale. This is part of the reason after I posted bail, I faced my colleagues and I hope they got the clear message that I was trying to send, which is don't be afraid. This is meant to intimidate. This is meant to harass. To make it so difficult so that we cannot ask hard questions, so that we can't get to the truth, to hold the powerful to account. Somehow, we have to get beyond the fear. I hope that more voices will join in outrage.

CH: That was Maria Ressa, founder of the The Rappler, speaking with Carol in 2019. This morning, Ms Ressa was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize -- alongside Dmitri Muratov, the editor-in-chief of Russia's Novaya Gazeta. You can find more on that story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: folk]

Lost And Found Seal Camera

Guest: Damian Lidgard

CH: It was always going to be a bumpy ride for Damian Lidgard's camera. From the start, when he wrapped it in nylon mesh and glued it to the back of a wild seal, he knew there would be surprises. In this case, there are two major surprises. The first: the camera vanished entirely. The second: that it came back three years later. Damian Lidgard is a seal biologist with Fisheries and Oceans Canada and a researcher at Dalhousie University. We reached him in Halifax.

CO: Damian, what was supposed to happen when you strapped this camera to the back of the seal?

DAMIAN LIDGARD: Well, what was supposed to happen was the seal was supposed to go into the water and be out at sea for a couple of days, allow the camera to turn on and record some footage and then return to the island. And we would be able to catch the seal and remove the camera and look to see what footage had been collected. That was the plan.

CO: [chuckle] And at what point did you realize that that plan had... those plans had been dashed?

DL: Probably as I approached the end of the first week. There was just no sign at all of this male on the island. And you know, by the time you get to around five, six, seven days and you haven't seen the male, then there's a good chance you're not going to see him. [both laugh]

CO: The females might feel the same way about that.

DL: Yeah, that's true. They might. This particular male was a young male, inexperienced. That's why we chose him because he's unlikely to stay on the island and defend females. That wouldn't be very interesting from our perspective if we want to record behaviour at sea. So we were happy that he went out to sea. But because it is the breeding season, and he is a male, we did expect him to come back and engage with the breeding colony. But he obviously had other plans.

CO: [laughing] OK, so he wasn't... he wasn't looking for love. What was he looking for?

DL: In the end, I think he was looking for love, but just not on land, but actually out at sea. Because when I look at the video from this camera, I can see he's in quite shallow waters, and he does actually spend a bit of time [chuckling] following a pregnant female. So I think what he did was that he didn't leave Sable, but he just stayed in the shallows around Sable and just never came onto land. So I... I never got to see him.

CO: Looking for love in all the wrong places.

DL: That's right. [laughing] Yes.

CO: So, OK, so what... how long was it before you sort of actually may have given up on ever seeing this camera and this seal again?

DL: Well, actually, I spent three to four weeks on Sable looking for this male every day. And towards the end of the... those weeks, I decided that was it. You know, we just... we were disappointed, but we just decided that this particular piece of equipment has been lost, so it's time to move on.

CO: OK, and then that's it, wind ahead three years, is that right?

DL: Yeah, almost three-and-a-half years, yes.

CO: So tell us how you managed... how was this camera recovered?

DL: So remarkably, there... there was a fishing vessel that was operating in Banquereau Bank. They actually caught hold of the camera in their net and brought it to the surface. And one of the fishermen is a keen individual who's interested in a lot of things, and he saw this piece of equipment and really wanted to know what it was being used for. So he had a remarkable drive to find out who owns this piece of equipment, so he got in contact with the manufacturer that's based in Australia. And then they got in contact with me. They... they sent me an email with photographs of this camera, and I was genuinely surprised to see it. [both laughing]

CO: And how... and how far away was this picked up by the fisherman?

DL: Banquereau Bank is reasonably close to Sable Island, and it's a... an area, an offshore sandbank, which is used by seals, grey seals, for foraging because it's... it hosts one of the favourite prey, the little fish that lives in the sand. And so my... my thought is that this is where, you know, the male was out there foraging on this bank towards the start of his moult. So seals moult every year; they shed all of their fur. And I think as his fur became weaker, the camera simply was shed. It just fell off the animal and was there lying on the... on the bottom of the sea. [laughing]

CO: So he moulted his camera?

DL: That's right. [CO chuckles] He moulted his camera, yes. [laughing]

CO: And so the fisherman found it. And this one particular fellow, he just... he got curious. And then... and now you have it. So, what do you... so what have you… what are you actually seeing on the film?

DL: So because of other commitments, I haven't been able to look through all the video, but we have like 59 20-minute videos. So quite a lot of footage to go through. And what I've seen so far is, first of all, that the male is... he is in very shallow water, so you can see him going down to the seafloor. And then as he turns his head to look upwards, you know, you've already seen the light coming through the water, so he's in shallow water. So as I say, he was chasing this particular female, this adult pregnant female, which was very cool to be able to see, you know, basically just looking through the eyes of a seal, essentially. And have not yet, but totally expecting to see some foraging behaviour, too, this male sort of getting a little bit of a bite to eat during the breeding season.

CO: But this is for three... now, so he lost the camera after the first year. You don't get to see him maybe becoming a bit older and wiser as time went on, right? [both chuckle] He was gone.

DL: I don't want to see this male again. [both laughing] I'm quite sure the male wasn't marked, so, yes, I won't know who the suspect was.

CO: Damian, it's good to talk to you. Thanks.

DL: Thanks very much.

CO: Bye.

DL: Bye.

CH: Damian Lidgard is a seal biologist with Fisheries and Oceans Canada and a researcher at Dalhousie University. We reached him in Halifax.

[music: bright instrumental jazz]

Microwave Innovator Obit

Guest: Ken Eke

CH: The next time you throw a bag of popcorn in your microwave -- and it comes out perfect instead of stinking up your whole kitchen -- remember the name Robert Schiffmann. He's the reason that microwaves can stand if your oven -- and do all sorts of things like heating up food without removing the packaging. Basically, he revolutionized and pushed the possibilities of microwaves. Bob Schiffmann died last month at the age of 86. Ken Eke was a close friend and colleague of Mr. Schiffmann. We reached him in Panama City, Florida.

CO: Ken, first of all, I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

KEN EKE: Me too. Me too. Very sad. But you know what? It is life, after all. And we have to expect that. But I'm sad, even though it's been a few weeks now.

CO: Now, he... you and Bob had a lot of fun experimenting with microwave ovens. And maybe, just... maybe you can... can you describe the earliest microwave oven that you and Bob worked with?

KE: Well, first of all, the one that Bob worked with was way back in the radar range days when he, much to his amazement, knew a man called Percy Spencer, who was one of the early men who invented the microwave for heating. And found that with Percy Spencer, a bar of chocolate melted in his pocket, which caused Bob to be very interested in microwaves. That was a long time ago. And since then, many bars of chocolate have melted in people's pockets.

CO: [chuckling] But he wasn't just interested. He became quite fascinated with these devices, right?

KE: He and I, you know, we developed a product, it's called a half-time oven, which we developed and what we could do. We could put in a typical time of a heating product. For example, take a packet of anything that said cooking time is 20 minutes. So we would say divide by two. Everybody can divide by two. So, that item cooked in 10 minutes. So that was the first thing. The one thing that he did, which I really want to take time just to tell you, he invented an idea to cook doughnuts. Doughnuts, when you immerse them in oil, they take a long time to heat the centre. So he said, well, if I draw a doughnut mixture into a vat of boiling oil, and if I use a microwave, OK, to propagate the doughnuts, then the doughnuts would cook on the inside while the oil is baking the outside. That was his very first idea of using microwave for cooking.

CO: OK, so question then, Ken. How come we don't have microwave doughnut makers now. What happened to that invention?

KE: Oh, it's still there. They use it, but they use it their way. They found that using doughnuts on a conveyor system... I mean, technology has advanced so much, but they still use microwave.

CO: Let's talk about the kitchen microwave because that's this thing that almost everyone has. And... and they're to... mostly, it seems, heat up their coffee and maybe make popcorn. What did... what did Bob hope that the microwave oven would do? What was his vision for what microwave ovens would do for the average kitchen?

KE: Expectations in the early days were that the microwave oven would replace the conventional oven and cook. But microwave ovens only do one thing. They could only boil. So if you were to put a chicken in a microwave oven, expectations for it to be cooked in 90 minutes, for example, it would boil in 90 minutes. And the end result would be a boiled chicken. Not very acceptable. So boiling was what the microwave oven did but in a very fast time. Beyond that was how do we get the end result, the right result? So we mixed hot air with it. By using conventional recirculating hot air and microwave, we were able to cook in a very short time, but with a conventional cooked result.

CO: Right. What were the most interesting moments of experimenting with early microwave ovens for you and bob?

KE: [chuckling] Speed, speed at which you could do things quickly. We actually came up with the idea of using microwave ovens to not just defrost but to sterilize dental instruments. So we thought, well, if you can eat metal up and you cause sparking, let's see what we can do to heat up dental instruments. And that's something that Bob and I did. We spent quite a long time doing it. It never materialized, I guess, because the industry way back then didn't want to know.

CO: Right. And so, was he... was he fun to work with?

KE: Tremendous. Tremendous. Let me give you one example. We were... we were in Monaco, in Italy, many years ago, waiting for a Canadian from Edmonton to arrive. His name was Wayne Tinga, and he was due to arrive to be at the head of a symposium. He arrives, and he said to us all, sorry, can't do it. He said that on the trip over on Canadian airlines, he had a sound from a hierarchy, told him not to do any more with microwaves. So the following day, Bob said, Let's take him out for a ride. So Bob hired a VW motorcar, four-wheeler with stick shift, and we travelled all around Monaco, getting not drunk but exciting times with each other, and we got on the beach, and the... the air. In other words, we had tremendous fun time with Bob Schiffmann.

CO: But here's something I quite can't square with all this. In addition to being the guru microwaves, I understand your friend Bob was a belly dancer?

KE: [chuckling] Where did you hear that from?

CO: We do our research here at As It Happens.

KE: You certainly do. Well, I tell you before he even got into microwaves, Bob, when you look at his photograph, you would think how could this be? But Bob was a belly dancer. And I was a Latin American dancer. So maybe... maybe that was reasoning why the two of us got together.

CO: OK, that seems maybe more likely it's because you're both fascinated with microwaves, but I get it. It sounds like an interesting life you had with your friend, Bob. And Ken... Ken, it's great to hear the stories of your friend, and I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you.

KE: My pleasure. My pleasure. Thank you so much.

CO: Bye-bye.

CH: Ken Eke was a close friend and colleague of the late microwave pioneer Robert Schiffmann. We reached him in Panama City, Florida.

[music: ambient]

Part 2: Tardigrade In Amber, Manila Bay Plastic Mangroves

Tardigrade In Amber

Guest: Phil Barden

CH: Phil Barden had looked at the piece of amber about a dozen times. And every time, he failed to realize that he had a "once-in-a-generation" type of fossil find in his hands. Now he does. He and his colleagues have described the discovery in a paper published this week in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B. Phil Barden is an evolutionary biologist at the New Jersey Institute of Technology. He's the senior author on the paper. We reached him in Newark.

CO: Professor Barden, the first few times you looked at this piece of amber, what did you see inside of it?

PHIL BARDEN: Yeah. So in my lab, we focus on the ant fossil record. So the striking thing about this piece at first was that there are three different species of ant inside of the amber. Um, and at least two of them are extinct on the island of Hispaniola, where the amber was found today. And so that's sort of the interesting thing that we saw at first.

CO: And when did you finally see that you had something that was a once-in-a-generation find?

PB: Yeah. Funny enough, I wish I could take credit for it, but I had a colleague who was visiting the lab, and he happened to be screening through this fossil. And he looked in the bottom corner, and he alerted me to let me know that he saw a tardigrade. And I thought he was wrong, and then I looked at it and saw that, in fact, it was a tardigrade.

CO: What is a tardigrade?

PB: A tardigrade is a microscopic organism. They're pretty small. This one's about half a millimetre in length, and they live in this sort of... typically the terrestrial ones, the ones that live on land, live in wet moss. And they're also called water bears. They're eight-legged. And they're these really striking, charismatic microfauna.

CO: And why did it seem unlikely... why did you think that there couldn't be a tardigrade suspended in this amber?

PB: That's a great question. The really striking thing about tardigrades is, first, that they're very ancient, so they got their start about 550 million years ago, back a little bit before the Cambrian explosion, we might even think. And the reason why it's really striking to find a fossil is because even though they're that ancient, this is only the third fossil tardigrade species that's been described. So we have a really patchy fossil record for this group. And that's what made the discovery so exciting.

CO: Exciting. But what's... why is it a big deal? Why is this discovery so significant?

PB: It really is the rarity part that I think is the most exciting. Because, you know, often the paleontology we call these ghost lineages. Lineages that we presumed to have existed, many of them for tens or hundreds of millions of years. Based on comparisons of genetic material among lineages, we can estimate how old groups of animals on the planet are. And whenever we find fossil evidence, empirical evidence, of the history of a ghost lineage, it's exciting. It's the first time that we can, you know, maybe stop guessing quite as much and have something that can allow us to say something with a little bit more clarity and something a little bit more definitive about their evolutionary history.

CO: What does this little fellow look like?

PB: Yeah, so water bears actually do look a lot like bears. They're also called moss piglets. And so many people think they're cute because you can actually see their eyespots. And even though they're, you know, these microorganisms and they look really tiny, they locomote, they walk around just kind of like vertebrates do. They kind of rumble around like bears. They're actually pretty clumsy. This one, of course, is not clumsy. It's immobile. But so this is sort of a long kind of pudgy, very strange-looking, I think if you've never seen a water bear before, very tiny animal.

CO: And so I mentioned that we have water bears and moss piglets, these tardigrades. But was this something different? Is this a different species?

PB: Yeah. So the species was different enough that we were able to build a new genus and species for it. So it is an entirely new species as well as a new genus.

CO: So this is a big deal?

PB: [chuckling] Somewhat, yeah. Although there are like, you know, over a thousand described tardigrade species, and so they are described quite frequently in modern things. It is really, you know, this is one-third of the entire known fossil history of this group.

CO: How old do you think this guy is?

PB: So we know it's from the Miocene, which this fossil deposit is dated to approximately 16 million years ago.

CO: Wow! And so in this amber, so does that mean that there might be more in the same region?

PB: It's actually probably not unlikely that there are tardigrades in amber all around the world in, you know, sock drawers and jewelry drawers. We just don't often look for them. Even those of us who study insects or other what are called inclusions within amber that are fossilized, we really don't think to look for tardigrades. They're so small that, you know, even specialists overlook them. So I think it's probably likely that there are many tardigrades around. We just don't actually find them in an amber.

CO: And when you say people's jewellery drawers, people do have… like, the amber doesn't always have insects in it, but quite often it does. But usually, [chuckling] you're fascinated with some large creature that's been fossilized inside. And, I guess, you wouldn't see a half-a... half-a-millimetre size?

PB: That's right, a half-a-millimetre.

CO: Wow!

PB: Yeah. And it's sort of funny to think that the ant is sort of the giant in this situation. But, yeah, the ant is... really dwarfs this really tiny tardigrade.

CO: All right. Well, you can be forgiven for not having noticed him in the first place. But you're... one of your colleagues, a co-author of this study at Harvard, you probably might know that he wrote a song about this, and so we're going to play a bit of that right now. Marc Mapalo, singing about your discovery.

SOUNDCLIP

[music: kind of a glee club simple piano song]

MARC MAPALO: [singing] Now we know that there's three. There's another mystery. What could this fossil be? [spoken] You want to know, right? Right? [singing] Well, look at our paper, and you'll see.

CO: [both chuckling] Very cute. Now, and, of course --

PB: Marc is very talented.

CO: Celebrating the third discovery, but he'll have to rewrite the lyrics and find new rhymes if you find more of these, I think?

PB: [chuckle] That's right. Yeah, we'll have to expand it.

CO: What do you think inspired this song on his part?

PB: I think for him, he really is, you know, so he's a Ph.D. student, and he's really just excited about tardigrades in general. And I think he is generally just such an enthusiastic person. And for one of his first projects to be describing, you know, this fossil when on average, we find them every 30 years, I think he just was so excited he had to sing about it.

CO: Well, anyone who has got amber jewellery at home with little bugs in it, should they check out and see if they can find any tiny, tiny tardigrades?

PB: Absolutely. Always take a look. Look for the tardigrades.

CO: If you can see it. [ both laughing]

PB: That's right, yeah. You might need a hand lens or a microscope.

CO: All right. We'll leave it there. Professor Barden, thank you.

PB: I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

CH: That was evolutionary biologist Phil Barden. We reached him in Newark, New Jersey.

[music: ambient]

Elevator Works Again

CH: Riding an elevator isn't something you probably give much thought to -- or get overly excited about. But for senior John Blizard, riding the elevator in his apartment this week felt "like Christmas". Since February, the elevator in his three-storey building in Trail, British Columbia, hasn't been working. Mr. Blizard says most of the residents are seniors -- and as someone with mobility issues, it has severely limited what he can do. Yesterday, he spoke with the CBC about riding the elevator again.

SOUNDCLIP

JOHN BLIZARD: In the afternoon, one of my friends down the hall came and told me it's running and ready to go, and I got in it and went up and down and just enjoyed everything.

SARAH PENTON: Did you ever think you'd be so excited about an elevator?

JB: Who ever would? You'd think I was a nut or something, you know? [SP chuckles] I mean, how many people can lay claim to that? You know, that I'm crazy over an elevator.

SP: Did you just ride up and down for a while just to enjoy it?

JB: Yeah, they just don't know what nine months of all the BS and stuff that I had to go through. And the people that told you lies all the time. And finally, it was playing on my mind. And finally, it's working. Now I can... I can go out more. I can go back to the pool. I can do all kinds of things that require me coming up and down.

SP: Tell me what the last nine months have been like for you? How has this affected your life?

JB: Oh, it's made more of a hermit out of me than I ever was. I only went out of the house maybe once or twice at the most a week. Usually, somebody came along down in the basement and helped me up with groceries, eh? Usually, other times, I had to take them up two or three steps at a time and follow them up. Other than that, it's been cabin fever.

SP: Because…. and what was going up and down those stairs like for you? How long did it take? How... how much stress did it put on your body?

JB: Oh, it took a lot of stress on me. It's been OK going down. Just it takes about 10 minutes to go down. Imagine that, 10 minutes to go down two flights of stairs. And then, coming back, it's anywhere from 20 minutes to half-an-hour without any... anything.

SP: To make it up two flights of stairs?

JB: Yeah.

CH: That was John Blizard speaking with CBC Radio West host Sarah Penton. For its part, back in June, the building's management said repairs were complicated by the age of the elevator -- and, of course, the pandemic.

[music: bright piano]

Manila Bay Plastic Mangroves

Guest: Diovanie De Jesus

CH: When Diovanie De Jesus travelled to the Manila Bay mudflats for some birdwatching, he was horrified by what he saw. A coastal area that was once lined with lush, green trees and shrubs was now swimming in a sea of plastic pollution. Pollution that's threatening to suffocate the remaining mangrove trees -- which are a vital part of the delicate ecosystem. Diovanie De Jesus is a marine biologist with Oceana, an international NGO dedicated to ocean conservation. We reached him in Manila.

CO: Diovanie, can you describe these areas of Manilla Bay where all this plastic has washed up?

DIOVANIE DE JESUS: That part of Manilla Bay is actually an estuary, so it has mudflats and some mangrove islands. It's part of Metro Manilla, so the garbage I saw in the mangroves, in the mudflats, probably came from the river into the area and also from the sea washing out the garbage into the shore.

CO: And how much is there? Just describe what it looks like. It's just... it's really gross.

DDJ: Well, that photo inside the mangroves, it pretty much covered the entire... the roots of the mangroves. And on the mudflats, it was almost covering the entire mudflats. But it's really a lot of garbage.

CO: And what is tangled up in those mangrove roots? So just describe some of the garbage, the plastic and the... and the trash that you see there.

DDJ: The garbage in the mangroves are mostly plastics covering up the roots of the mangroves. There are some styrofoam, sleepers, wood and all other materials and plastic bottles.

CO: So a lot of single-use plastic?

DDJ: Yes, a lot of single-use plastics.

CO: What effect is this having on the mangroves, on the roots of the... of the trees in the... in those flood... those mudflats and in those swampy areas?

DDJ: The... the plastics covering the mangroves can really affect the mangroves because they need these roots for survival in those areas. And also, in the mudflats areas, there are also several organisms living in mudflats. Like you have your migratory birds and also your invertebrates. So this... this plastic mixed up with the ecosystem. And aside from the physical pollution, it can also contribute to chemical pollution for the area.

CO: What kind of chemical pollution?

DDJ: If this plastic pollution continues in this area as well, it can really affect the ecosystems, the mangroves, the mudflats and the organisms relying on these ecosystems. It can also affect human health because of the chemicals seeping from the plastics and also the microplastics that can eventually be passed up the food chain and end up in our fish, for example.

CO: What do you think? What do you think the government should do about this then?

DDJ: The government should really address the problems in Manilla Bay. They have a program for Manilla Bay cleanup, but I personally think that it's not enough because, for example, they have this controversial artificial dolomite beach in the city of Manilla, and they've spent millions there. And I think that's not really addressing the problem of pollution and also the problem of environmental degradation in Manilla Bay. So they should put more effort into these problems and not just concentrate in, you know, beautification projects which aren't actually the real problem in Manilla Bay.

CO: And do you think the government will do that? What hope do you have for the future of these mangrove forests and wetlands?

DDJ: I heard from a friend who works for the government the other day that because of this news, the government officials have seen the situation and went down and... and will do something about it. Hopefully, they'll really do something big and something that is sustainable and will really address that problem.

CO: Right. Diovanie, thanks for speaking with us.

DDJ: OK, thank you.

CH: Diovanie De Jesus is a marine biologist with the ocean conservation organization Oceana. We reached him in Manila.

[music: world music]

Singapore Robocops

CH: There are new robotic sheriffs in town in Singapore, ready to clean up the streets. And they has one message for criminals.

SOUNDCLIP

ROBOCOP: Dead or alive, you are coming with me.

CH: I've just been informed that's from the movie Robocop, which is not real. And that the robots in Singapore are literally focused on cleaning up the streets. Recently, authorities unveiled two robot drones called Xaviers -- ironically, each the size of a garbage can -- as part of a new effort to curb what they call "undesirable social behaviour." Which, for now, will focus on smoking in enclosed areas, littering, and inadequate social distancing. Still: critics say the patrol robots are a sign of the growing reach of government surveillance in Singapore. Plus which, as you're about to hear: the little Robocops are kind of creepy.

SOUNDCLIP

XAVIERS: Please pull over. Littering is an offence. Please don’t litter. Please keep distanced. Please keep one metre distancing. Please do not litter. Littering is an offence. Please park in bicycle lots. Please park in bicycle lots. Please do not smoke in prohibited areas such as covered walkways.

CH: [chuckle] The totally not dystopian sounds of robot cops in Singapore. Police there are testing the cop bots in an attempt to curb "undesirable social behaviour".

[music: ambient]

Part 3: Feature: Hayley Wickenheiser

Feature: Hayley Wickenheiser

Guest: Hayley Wickenheiser

CH: In her book, Over the Boards, Hayley Wickenheiser writes, "People on social media sometimes harp on me to shut up and stick to hockey." It's a good thing she doesn't listen. If she did, we wouldn't have her new memoir with all the insights it offers. About hockey, of course. But also about everything hockey taught her. Lessons that feel especially timely in a week when the Montreal Canadiens' star goalie Carey Price has announced he's entering the league's player assistance program. In a post on Instagram, his wife Angela wrote, "We hope we can communicate the importance of putting your mental health first -- not just by saying it, but by showing up and doing the work to get better." That's the kind of wisdom that's captured in Ms. Wickenheiser's new book, which deals with her successes, and her remarkable midlife pivot to medicine -- but also some devastating defeats and the considerable toll they took. Over the Boards comes out on Tuesday. Ahead of its release -- and before Carey Price's family shared his news -- Hayley Wickenheiser joined Carol from Victoria, B.C., for a feature interview.

CO: Hayley, welcome to As It Happens.

HAYLEY WICKENHEISER: Thanks for having me, Carol.

CO: In this book, you've written, Over the Boards, you describe how many things you’re balancing. Just... you're still engaged in hockey, obviously. You have a career with the Maple Leafs, you are [chuckling] becoming a doctor or in med school and... and working as a doctor. You’re parenting. What on earth possessed you to write a book in the middle of all that?

HW: [laughing] It's a good question. You know, I originally didn't have too much interest to do a book. I started sort of having a chat back and forth with the... the publisher, just putting some ideas down about three months before the pandemic hit. And then in a span of 24 hours, life as I knew it with the Toronto Maple Leafs, as well as I was just in my last few months medical school, it completely stopped. And so I went from hockey by day and working in the emergency room at night to nothing. I got a little bit more time to think about it and thought, well, maybe some of the lessons that I have learned through sport would... would translate to maybe helping people or giving people some inspiration and hope in a time where I think we all kind of need a little bit of that right now. So I thought maybe it was a little bit more relevant to what I had to share and decided to do it.

CO: And this book, Over the Boards: Lessons From the Ice, you have structured it around lessons, things you learned, qualities that you inherited and developed, and you talk a lot about grit and resilience. And these are qualities I understand you did inherit from a member of your family. Can you tell us about that?

HW: Yeah. You know, I think kind of in the book, I describe grit as doing things every day, maybe things that are hard, things you don't want to do, things that you dread doing. Resiliency is sort of what you become or what you end up, I guess, as the body of work, of living a life where you know, you've done things that you maybe necessarily have not wanted to do, but you know you need to do to get through to the other side or accomplish your goals. So, yeah, my... my... my grandpa ran a grain cattle farm in rural Saskatchewan just outside of Lumsden, Saskatchewan. And I think I grew up with a couple of really good role models. My mom and dad, number one. And then my grandpa, who was a pretty old-fashioned farmer that believed that hard work and doing hard things could pave the way for bigger success. So he used to put me in some precarious situations on the farm, like riding horses bareback, getting bucked off, getting back on again or picking rocks and throwing bales while running alongside the the loader in the field to train and become more physically fit. And just watching him and how hard he worked, I think, you know, if people ask me, you know, what is the one quality? I would say that it... that it probably is my work ethic through... through my life. And I... and I learned that from watching my grandpa model that every single day and lead a really fulfilling life and have a successful farm. And I think that helped me when I went into sports to learn that every single day, nothing is ever given to you. You have to continue to work for it.

CO: I think now a lot of... there's so many women and girls in hockey. And... and it's perhaps difficult for people to even know what it was like in the 1990s when you were wanting to play hockey and that this was, I mean, OK, not disparaging ringette, but girls who wanted to play in sports, they... that's where they were channelled. Hockey wasn't on... it wasn't available to them.

HW: Yup!

CO: And you guys changed that. You and the Canadian Women's National Hockey Team, you changed so much for girls who aspired to strap on the skates and get out there with the puck. And so... but how difficult was it for you in the 1990s?

HW: It was hard, there's no doubt. When I look back, I... you know, I've experienced a lot of things in the game. [clears throat] There isn't a word that wasn't said to me through the years. There isn’t probably a change room or a boiler room or a bathroom stall [laughing] that haven’t changed in growing up in rural Saskatchewan, where you were just forced to take whatever was available. It was often the parents of other teen... kids on other teams that were the most vicious, not necessarily the kids that you were playing against. But I always think... I think the women that came even before me, I mean, at least I had an Olympic Games and a national team to strive for. The women that played before me where there was no Olympics, you know, there was really no motivation outside of just pure love for the game. I feel like they were really the ones that paved the way, and every generation makes it easier for the next. So what I'm most proud about today is that a little girl can walk into any rink in this country with a bag and a stick over her shoulder, and really, people are not looking twice. Where, when I was that little girl in Saskatchewan, I cut my hair very short, so I would look like a little boy. And I would get to the rink early, try to hide in the bathroom stall, put my feet up on the toilet seat when I was changing so that no one would know that I was the girl in the bathroom. And then run through the lobby as fast as possible to get to the dressing room where I ultimately felt safe because then when I stepped on the ice, no one could figure out who the girl was anyway. I just looked like any other boy out there. So, you know, when I look back, I think a lot of that did build the resiliency and the thick skin that I... that I have today, where I feel like there's not much that I can't handle.

CO: I want to take you back to a time that you needed a thick skin. And that was after Nagano and the Olympics there and the 1998 final. I want to just… [chuckle] if you can bear with this, we’ll play a bit to remind people. And then I want to ask you about how... how you dealt with that? Here it is.

SOUNDCLIP

[cheering, the itching sound of skate on ice]

ANNOUNCER: The centre ice. A chance for Wickenheiser. One-on-one. Her shot is deflected. It’s over the net and off the back of the boards -- 20 seconds to play in the hockey game. Green zone shot blocked and out to centre ice. One last chance, Judy Diduck. Off the boards. It's broken up. Sandra White burying it on goal. It’s in! It’s over.

[cheers intensify]

CO: OK, so a lot of tears in Canada at that moment, and I think for you people too. And there's the sound of Team USA beating Team Canada in that Olympics. And I'm getting emotional just remembering what it was like. And so, I don't... I can't imagine what that was like for you. That was... was a big, difficult moment, wasn't it?

HW: It was. And you know, to be honest, I've never heard that sound bite, ever. I… I don't even remember much about that… that game because it was a game and a moment in time that [chuckling] I think I selectively chose to forget quickly after it happened, but it was devastating. I.. I do write about in the book going into a bit of a we call it an Olympic depression, an Olympic hangover, that happens to a lot of athletes, whether regardless if you win or lose at the Olympics. But we had a lot of expectations that we were going to come home with a medal and a gold medal. And I never thought anything different. I was 19. I thought, you know, we're going to go and win. And I had never really thought about losing and what it would be like if we lost. And there I was, standing on the blue line with the silver around my neck, staring across at those Americans with the gold around theirs. And I was thinking to myself two things. I was thinking, you know, first thing is, I never want to... I'm not going to let them see me cry. I would do that elsewhere, away from the cameras and them. And then the second thing I was thinking was never… I never want to feel this way again. It was the most stinking, horrible feeling. And mostly because at that time in my life, everything that I thought I was was wrapped up into who I was as a hockey player. So if we were winning, I was a good person. I was successful. And if we were losing, then I was a total failure. I couldn't really separate the two. And so it became very hard for me to get over that and took probably about a year. But I think there was enough of a group of women that we went into the next Olympics in Salt Lake City, knowing that bitterness of '98 and... and knowing how bad that hurt and just not wanting to let that happen again. And, fortunately, for the next four in a row, we were able to keep winning. But I don't know, having won that first Olympics, maybe it wouldn't have turned out as good down the road, but it certainly was a lot of learning that came out of that.

CO: When I was reading in your book about what you were going through and just how bitter that was and the depression that followed that loss. And yet, at the same time, just shortly after that, I met you. [chuckling] and I was one of many who were just completely starstruck by you. You just seemed so strong and together. And you were inspiring so many girls to get out there. And so, it's extraordinary to know what was going on inside your heart at the time that so many of us were just admiring you.

HW: Yeah, and I think, you know, it's partly our culture, and in Canada with our love affair with hockey that I often joke that, you know, Hockey Canada's motto is, we're with you win or tie. [chuckling] Don't come home without... without a gold medal when you go to these events because that's the expectations that the nation has for our hockey teams. I personally felt like a failure. I felt like I let down the entire country. I was embarrassed to land in Canada. I remember I was like, I should just go home and never leave the house. I mean, you step back now. This is many, many years later, and you go, OK, well, that... you know, every Olympics inspires the next generation. We know that registration in Canada went up 100 per cent, with girls wanting to play hockey coming out of that Olympics. But it's... it doesn't take away from how devastating it was personally. And so, you know, you learn to separate and find the perspective. My... my coach at the time, Wally Kozak, he gave me a.. a note, and it said a gold medal is a wonderful thing, but if you're not enough without it, you'll never be enough with it. And I've kept that piece of paper and that quote in my... in my wallet. And every championships and Olympics I've played since ‘98, I’ve always looked at that as a reminder that, you know, you're more than... than what you do. And, you know, it was a hard lesson to learn, but I think a good one.

CO: You know, there is so many examples recently of talking about this, admitting it. I interviewed Perdita Felicien recently about what happened to her in the Olympics with the hurdles and how long it took for her to just lift her head again, and what it meant to not show people her tears but to be deeply distressed inside. And just… and another example, Andre De Grasse, who won gold in the 200-metre final in Tokyo. And his mother spoke to As It Happens. And I want to play a little bit. Just so... what goes on in the background that perhaps people don't know about.

SOUNDCLIP

BEVERLY DE GRASSE: Having the weight of the whole world on his shoulder. [crying] I mean, no one should have to go through that. I mean, he was doing this for everybody, you know? The country, his family, you know, he was doing this for himself, too. I mean, that's such a difficult thing to ask of anybody. And he'd be excited, everybody being excited, but I’ll be really thinking about what these athletes go through. You know, all the pressure that's being put on them to really perform. And is it really worth all of this?

CO: Hmmm, that was Beverly De Grasse talking about... now, and her son had won gold. And yet, was still so aware of how much pressure it was on him and as a young person, as a young man. And so what... was it... is it worth it, in your view?

HW: [chuckle] Well, I get kind of emotional listening to that. It choked me up, too, because... because I know that. I know that feeling viscerally. I feel that in my body, in my own world. And, of course, it's worth it when you look back. I mean, in the moment, I often say to people in medicine that... and they have a hard time understanding this, but there's... there's nothing that I'm going to encounter in medicine that I'm going to do that will ever equate to the pressure that I felt trying to win a gold medal for Canada. I think one thing that's different is in an individual sport like Andre, Perdita, you know, these athletes live with the weight literally of the... of the world or the weight of the nation squarely on their... their own shoulders and they don't have too much to deflect away from. At least in a hockey team, you have 20 other players that you can deflect pressure to, which is how I tried to cope. There's no outside force that will put more pressure on an athlete than the internal pressure they put on themselves. And so it's a constant battle within to cope with that and to manage it, and some athletes are able to do it better than others. But I think, you know, I’d be remiss to say that we all struggle with that. That's probably the biggest challenge for an athlete is to find the inner peace and to just be able to stay in that place. It's very fleeting.

CO: You write about in the book about being willing to be vulnerable and to show vulnerability and how... how beneficial that can be and how hard it is. I mean, first of all, you were in a sport that was just male-dominated. That's an understatement. [ both chuckle]

HW: Yes.

CO: And... and at a time when you were struggling to... for the sport to emerge for women. And I was thinking about... when I was reading that, I was thinking about Leylah Fernandez, the... our tennis player in the US Open, and just... just how she exuded that confidence. How... I just wonder if you see women athletes, are they changing? Are they able to show who they are and not be so afraid?

HW: I think so. You know, one of the most fascinating things for me with Leylah was to be with the Leafs and inside the mill room with the Leaf players. And, you know, I won't name names, but to watch the men watch her and just be in awe of like, how is she handling this with such grace? Like, she's so cool under pressure. Like hearing their comments, the respect that they have for her and the excitement of watching, I mean, they were glued to the TV. You know, I think people would be maybe surprised or interested to know that, but that... there is that respect level there. There is that admiration. And I think female athletes have the respect garnered has come a long way, I guess, from when I first started with the national team to today, where an athlete is an athlete. And a hockey player is a hockey player. And people look at them for their athletic ability more now than ever before. And we still have a ways to go. But I do think it was very exciting to see the summer that Canadian women athletes had. You know, you can say their first names: Penny, Layla, you know, and everybody knows these athletes. And the evaluation is on their performance, not necessarily on their looks or what they may have said or not said. And that's exciting for me to see.

CO: You're listening to As It Happens, and I'm speaking with six-time Olympian Hayley Wickenheiser about her new book, Over the Boards: Lessons From the Ice. And the lessons that you discuss in this, your lessons are now what you are applying to an entirely new profession [chuckling] in being a doctor and going to medical school. And you describe how you... you applied to med school twice before you got in. On your third attempt, you write that... that... that you cried during your admissions interview. What was that all about?

HW: [laughing] Oh man, I totally did. You know, I tell people who… I get kids, or young athletes will ask me all the time they want to go into med school. And the first thing I say is don't give up the first time if you don't get in because it's a complete crapshoot and they don't often, you know, you don't often get in on your first try. And that's... it's hard. It's hard to get in. The hardest part of medicine is getting in. But I had just had foot surgery. I came off the 2014 Olympics. I had my foot completely reconstructed, so I was in a cast with crutches as I tried to hobble into my med school interview. And I was on a lot of painkillers and had quite a bit of pain. And so I had gone through the wringer. I think it's 12 stations. You have six minutes at each station. You read a STEM outside the door, and then you walk in, and you complete whatever is asked of you. And on the very last station, the question on the door, I think, was something like, why did you want to go into medicine? And you open the door, and some stranger is sitting across from you. And so I started talking about why I wanted to go into medicine. I grew up in, you know, small-town Saskatchewan. A neighbour girl of ours was backed over by a grocery delivery van when I was about 10 years old. I spent the remaining weeks going to the hospital with all our neighbourhood kids and watching her recovery and was really inspired by the doctors and nurses to... to want to do that. And that's kind of how my journey started. But... so I talked about that, and I talked about, you know, my life and support and then ultimately my son and what he's had to endure watching his mom run around the world doing crazy things for a long time. [laughing] And I started to get very emotional because it was very real for me, and I had really worked super hard to get to that moment, like everyone does. And I got emotional, and I ended up getting in. And then years later, sitting in the Air Canada lounge in Toronto, a guy came up to me and said, do you remember me? I said, no, I'm sorry, I don't. He said, your last station in med school, and I just started laughing because he turned out to be an ophthalmologist from Calgary that was interviewing me. And so I asked him, well, did it help that I cried? He said, well, yeah, [chuckling] you were very genuine. It didn't hurt you. So I tell... I tell all the upcoming med students in your interviews. You know, be yourself, cry if you need to and show some vulnerability.

CO: Again, that lesson about not being afraid to show yourself to be vulnerable. And... and yet, you went into medicine at a time when, oh my gosh, we're faced with this... this international crisis, this pandemic. And you got to see that firsthand. You were there seeing that. And how overwhelming was that for you to witness?

HW: You know, at the start, it wasn't overwhelming. I would say it's... it's becoming over... not overwhelming, but it's becoming frustrating and exhausting now that I'm... I'm a resident doctor. I'm working currently in the emerge. I see COVID patients come through the door on a daily basis. I treat them. I talk to their families. The majority of them are unvaccinated, you know, at this point, which is frustrating. At the start of the pandemic, I was in an emergency room in Toronto, in the GTA, which actually received Ontario's first COVID patient. I was actually there that night that patient came in. And there was a lot of uncertainty, a lot of questions within the medical team of what to do, how to put the PPE on, like a negative pressure room, where to put this patient. The physician I was working with was... was not afraid to go treat the patient, but he just wasn't sure, you know, how to protect himself. And that's what I saw at the beginning of the pandemic. One of the physicians I was working with in Calgary, she described it as a war zone. I remember working in the Peter Lougheed Hospital, where they erected a tent outside of the hospital where they would treat non-COVID patients and then have COVID patients inside. And walking, you know, from the emergency room to the... the tent, you know, my friend said, this is military medicine. This is war medicine because it's like a mash tent that you walked in there, and it was a completely surreal experience to be doing that and treating patients and then seeing COVID patients decompensate so quickly in front of your eyes, people that were otherwise healthy, those types of things. And now, I guess we’re about a year-and-a-half, almost two years in and certain places like Alberta are really struggling when so many of these deaths and cases could be so preventable. And I feel for health care workers. I think people are pretty tired, and it's been a long haul for everyone. So I still keep hope, and I'm positive that we're going to get to the other side of this soon. But it's... it's been a long go, for sure.

CO: What did you take from hockey that... and being on the ice that prepares you for this?

HW: I use everything that I used in hockey every day in medicine. First of all, it's a team sport. Medicine is an absolute team sport. You learn very quickly as a resident that the nurses are your best friends, that you rely on them, they save your butt many times a day. You learn that the porters and the unit clerks are just as important as your attending physician that you're working with. And so it becomes really evident when you work with people, those that can work in the team and those that can't. And I learned about self-care as an athlete, sleep and training and nutrition and fitness and those things that are so important to... if you don't take care of yourself first, you can't take care of anyone else. And I value that immensely, and I won't ever sacrifice that. The discipline and the ability to compartmentalize and to chunk things, I think that I became very good as an athlete at living in a place where you fail a lot, and you get criticized a lot. And as a, I guess, a young starting doctor... well, I'm not young, but I'm young in my medical career. [laughing] You learn... you learn to handle criticism. You get criticized a lot. You get feedback all the time because you're always sort of failing forward in medicine. And if you can't handle that, and if you cannot be receptive and take it for what it is, it can really eat you up. And I'm very good at that. And most athletes are because we live in a world where every day we go to work, someone's telling us what we're doing wrong more often than they're telling you what you're doing right. So every day, there's so many parallels. And I tell people that in medicine, they often don't believe me, but it's... it's all the same.

CO: This is As It Happens. And you're listening to our conversation with Hayley Wickenheiser about her new book on her dual careers as hockey star and medical doctor. I just want to maybe pull those two worlds together in one story because you refer so often in your book to Salt Lake City and that extraordinary accomplishment of your gold medal, the first of four golds in the Olympics. And, of course, taking that back from the Americans at the time when you're in their country and at a time when there was such high patriotism. And you talk a lot in the book about how much... how much you took from that moment. How… what was it? What... what... what was the groove? What was the rhythm? What was the mindset you got into that let you and the others carry on to... to that great moment?

HW: Well, you know, as we talked earlier, we came off of that ‘98 loss. We were really motivated. We were determined not to let that happen again as a group. And we had a really great team that year in 2002, a lot of veterans, a lot of really mature players that understood their role and a lot of leaders on that team. And Salt Lake was the unforeseen, you know, September 11th, the 20-year anniversary just this year, but one of the American players, her father, was killed in the World Trade Center. It was a very emotional time for everyone, but especially the American team and all the athletes. And we were losing to the Americans many, many games prior to going into those Salt Lake Olympics, and most of the Canadian media had kind of written us off again like, well, maybe they're not as good as they think they are because they lost in ‘98. And, you know, most of the media didn't really pay attention to the women's team outside of the Olympic Games. So then suddenly everybody was paying attention a month before the Olympics and then weighing in on... on what our team would do or what to do. And so we just got together as a team, and we actually created this distraction list where we put together like 200 things that could possibly happen to us at the Olympics and how we were going to react to each one of them. So from things like a terrorist attack to bad food, to losing equipment, to a family member passing away. Like, we had everything. And one of the things on that list was bad refereeing in the gold medal final. And wouldn't you know, we get into that gold medal final, and we spent 28 minutes shorthanded, which is half of the game basically, kind of unheard of in hockey. And we’d prepared for that. And it was just a simple word that it was a silly word: Emerald Lake, which was the place that we were in Emerald Lake, B.C. when we had our training camp before the Olympics and a retreat. And so one of our players, Dana Antal, I remember her standing up on the bench, and I think in the dressing room in between periods and she... she yelled Emerald Lake. [chuckling] And we all started laughing, and it was a way to kind of deflect the pressure and remind ourselves that, hey, like we've talked about this, we know what to do and stick with the game plan. So I think the heightened emotion of that Olympics, September 11th, the us-against-the-world mentality with Wayne Gretzky and the men's team. And then, of course, beating the Americans on their home soil in a very emotionally charged time was one of the... the greatest wins that I've ever been around. It was a lot of adversity that we overcame.

CO: And the story you describe is so extraordinary and just what it meant and what... what it did for you, what it contributed to you and to all of us who watched that game. But... and yet, you keep going back to that advice you had from Wally Kozak, you're... one of your coaches. He wrote to you in a note, as you said earlier you keep it with you. Dear Haley, a gold medal is a wonderful thing, but if you're not enough without it, you'll never be enough with it. How important is that lesson, not just for you, but for anyone?

HW: That lesson, I needed that. You know, they always say, you know, the lesson comes at a time you need it, or you just keep getting the lesson. [chuckling] Well, that was what happened with me and Wally. And I think he gave me that note at a time that I needed that lesson. He seemed to have always known through my career when I needed to learn a lesson of some sort. And it was very profound, but I was willing to sort of receive that advice at that time and thought a lot about it. And it was very important because I was very caught up in everything I did as a hockey player-defined me as a person, and now I see that, you know, we're all so much more than whatever we do for a majority of our day, whoever we are. And so that was something that deflected pressure and took away that pressure that I had put on myself of having to be perfect all the time. And, you know, if I wasn't playing well or scoring goals, then I wasn't successful. And I think it's a lesson that we all, I think, need in life at times that we're so much more than what we do. And we can all tend to get caught up in that. And certainly, I was very caught up in that at that time in my life and have gathered some more perspective since. [laughing]

CO: Well, I think anyone and everyone who has followed your career over the decades that you were playing hockey and... would know that you are quite extraordinary. [chuckling] And it is really a pleasure to speak with you, Hayley. Thank you.

HW: Thanks for having me, Carol. Very nice to talk with you as well.

CO: Bye-bye.

HW: Take care.

CH: Hayley Wickenheiser is a physician, the senior director of player development for the Toronto Maple Leafs, and one of the world's best hockey players. Her new book, Over the Boards: Lessons From the Ice, is published by Penguin Random House and comes out on Tuesday. And for more on that story, visit our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

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October 08, 2021 Episode Transcript

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