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The AIH Transcript For October 06, 2021

[hosts]Carol Off, Chris Howden[/hosts]

CAROL Off: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is As It Happens.

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Prologue

CH: Tonight:

CO: Viral load. A councilor in Dawson Creek, British Columbia, explains how a livestream of a routine council meeting wound up being distributed world-wide, as a source of pandemic disinformation.

CH: Music to his ears. The director of the Afghanistan National Institute of Music says he was thrilled to hear that some of its members had reached safety in Doha this week -- but he's not giving up hope they'll be able to perform at home again one day.

CO: The biggest chunk of change. With Washington about to hit its debt ceiling, one idea is gaining currency: the suggestion that the U.S. government should mint a one-trillion-dollar platinum coin.

CH: Watching her language. More than 20 words of Korean origin will appear in the new edition of the Oxford English Dictionary -- and a linguistic professor says that's a defining moment for Korean culture.

CO: Beyond the collie of duty. Researchers teach six especially bright border collies to understand words -- and one of the scientists behind the project says we have a lot to learn from what the dogs have learned.

CH: And how they get their hoax into you. A new study reaches a depressingly simple conclusion about why regular people believe in things like lizard people: because conspiracy theories are more entertaining than the truth.

CH: As It Happens, the Wednesday edition. Radio that figures that means the cabal’s in your court.

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Part 1: Dawson Creek Anti-Vax, Trillion Dollar Coin, OED Korean Words

Dawson Creek Anti-Vax

Guest: Shaely Wilbur

CH: Live-streams of city council meetings in Dawson Creek, B.C. city council meetings don't usually run the risk of going viral. But clips of a meeting last month have racked up hundreds of thousands of views around the world -- for all the wrong reasons. The meeting was called to discuss how B.C.'s vaccine card system would affect places like the community pool and the curling rink. But then council decided to allow a contingent of anti-vaxxers to speak. Those speakers made false or misleading statements about COVID-19 vaccines. And now, clips of the meeting have been cut and circulated to promote disinformation about the pandemic. Shaely Wilbur is a city councillor in Dawson Creek, B.C.

CO: Councillor Wilbur, what did you think when you first heard this video of your city council meeting had been taken up by these anti-vax groups on the internet?

SHAELY WILBUR: Well, I was quite upset, actually. I don't think that the council meeting was meant for that purpose or that we were making any claim to agreeing. However, it did go viral. And now, we are, you know, working within a community that is divided, and we have families that are divided. So the outcome of it has not, you know, been great. It's been negative.

CO: How is it that they came to speak in front of council?

SW: The delegations were allowed to speak by a unanimous vote of council, which we can do. And, unfortunately, some of the information that was shared by delegations was not based on what the meeting was about. And two, there was reference made to the Holocaust, which is shameful, should not have happened. I am absolutely to my core sorry that that happened and that it triggered many, many people.

CO: There's two sets of the kinds of comments, right? On the one hand, there were those... the protesters who came and called the police, The RCMP, Brownshirts. Accused the system of being that of the Nazis or the Gestapo. Made, as you point out, references to these voluntary vaccine cards being to... being like 1930s Germany. That was one part of it. But then there was... they also... the... the false information that was presented before a council about the nature of the vaccines themselves, right?

SW: And that was part of it. And I cannot... I'm not an expert, right? I'm not an expert, but I do know vaccinations seem to be the way that we are going to get COVID, you know, eliminated, under control. And so, I... as not being an expert, I can't say that somebody presents information if it's true or not. So then my upset is that by not saying something, information got shared that could be incorrect.

CO: Right. And so when... there's one... one particular individual, a woman who has been this... has really gone viral, her part of her presentation before City Council in the council chambers, who describes the vaccines falsely as a genetic experiment. And falsely says that there's a high fatality rate. what she was saying was not true. Did anyone on council challenge the things she was saying as being false?

SW: She was not challenged or asked questions. I had actually called in, so I was on the phone. But no, she was not asked questions. And, you know, each delegation gave a presentation or thanks for coming and speaking and move along. And then, at one point, the mayor, I believe, did finally say, you know, that no more delegations. That's it. We should have, I should have… as an elected official, I should have challenged. I didn't. I... I apologize for that. And I see daily by messages from people saying, You know, this is still out there. People are using it as fact. It's not fact. And so, I think at the end of the day, we all have to work together to be kind, to get through this. You know, we cannot have communities and families divided. We need to work together to eliminate COVID. And the way to do that is through vaccination. So I've gotten vaccinated, I stand behind it, and I hope the generations that walk after me don't even know what COVID-19 is.

CO: And the person, this woman, who is described at the council meeting and online as a molecular biologist, do you know who she actually is?

SW: I do not know who she is, and I have not seen anything verifying those credentials that you've named.

CO: She actually herself identifies as the owner of an alternative clinic that uses energy healing and essential oils to help clients. Is there any way to challenge her credentials that are being presented falsely in these... in these videos that are circulating from your council chamber?

SW: Well, so the video has now gone off of our council meeting and our website. But it has been copied and shared by other people posting, which happens when you post stuff on the internet. It's to the world. I think that people should question her credentials and ask her to validate. At the end of the day, no delegation that comes to council is... they're providing their opinion. And in these troubled times, you know, I'm happy to listen to people's opinions. Where I draw the line is when your opinion makes reference to a current situation, and you reference it to a horrific historical event. That is right there, a trigger saying, OK, we're done. That is not the case. You cannot make reference to that. And we should have recognized that on the spot. I can only speak for myself, and unfortunately, I did not. I have posted to Facebook my own words, my own opinion, and I stand behind that. And I'm going to encourage my community to work together to end COVID and to be kind to each other.

CO: You know, this is a week in which Facebook has... is challenged as a... for... for its failure to do its part to stop false information from being spread. So, allowing a lot of this disinformation and hateful material like the Holocaust references to be spread. Do you think that Facebook has a responsibility as well?

SW: I think they do. And I think that they need to look at their own internal policies and procedures and ensure that hate, bullying, misinformation is not being spread through the source that they're providing.

CO: Councillor Wilbur, we'll leave it there. Thank you.

SW: Thank you. Have a great day.

CH: Shaely Wilbur is a city councillor in Dawson Creek, British Columbia.

[music: folk]

Trillion Dollar Coin

Guest: Rohan Grey

CH: What if you could solve your money problems by just making more money? Not earning it. Actually creating it. That's what some people think the U.S. government should do. Washington is about to hit its debt ceiling. Which has prompted all kinds of political squabbling on Capitol Hill. And given new life to what sounds like an outlandish solution: the idea that the government should simply mint a one-trillion-dollar platinum coin. U.S. Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, for one, is not a fan of the scheme. Here's what she said to CNBC.

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JANET YELLEN: I'm opposed to it, and I don't believe that we should consider it seriously. It's really a gimmick. And what's necessary is for Congress to show that the world can count on America paying its debts.

CH: Rohan Grey is a law professor and an expert on fiscal policy at Willamette University. We reached him in Salem, Oregon.

CO: Professor Grey, we just heard Janet Yellen calling this trillion-dollar coin a gimmick. Is she right?

ROHAN GREY: She's right, but I think her conclusion is wrong. It's a gimmick only in the sense that the debt ceiling itself is a gimmick -- that the extraordinary measures that Treasury secretaries have used for decades. And it's the kind of gimmicks that, you know, people in business use all the time to get around a silly accounting restriction that doesn't actually have any real-world economic effect.

CO: OK, just maybe just describe in layman's terms how this would even work if it was to be used?

RG: Yeah, sure. So the Mint would use its authority under 31 Section 5112K, which authorizes them to issue platinum coins of whatever denomination the Treasury Secretary deems appropriate. The language is very clear. They would meet the coin, they would take it over to the Federal Reserve, and they would deposit that coin. The Federal Reserve would get the coin as an asset. It's legally face value worth one trillion dollars. And it would mark up the Mint's account with an equivalent amount, just like if you took a $100 bill to the bank and deposited it at the bank. And those funds would then be swept from the Mint's account to the Treasury's general account. Just like it sweeps Mint funds every year, hundreds of millions of dollars of coins fundage. And those funds would be available to spend just like any other funds the Treasury has to spend.

CO: Then the Congress could just proceed with its budget and not worry about the debt ceiling then?

RG: That's right. The debt ceiling is a limit on one kind of instrument -- that is, Treasury securities. It's not a limit on spending limits. The limits on spending are the budget. And Congress has already passed a budget telling the Treasury to spend a certain amount. All this is is the Treasury using the tools it already has to honour the spending commitments that Congress has already passed into law.

CO: Well, surely there are easier ways of doing this, right? I mean, why don't they just raise the debt ceiling?

RG: Well, if Congress was functional right now, that would be an option. [chuckling] But right now, you know, we have intransigence on both sides. And doing that kind of thing requires legislative cooperation that hasn't been forthcoming up until now. The beautiful thing about the coin is that it only requires the Treasury secretary to do this. You know, the Treasury secretary is the one who is legally required to honour Congress's spending commitments. And the Treasury secretary has the power to do so.

CO: But the whole idea of this whole debt ceiling is something that has been around for decades. So why not just ignore it? I mean, isn't it... some are suggesting it's unconstitutional to even have this... this debt ceiling?

RG: Well, one of the difficulties of ignoring it is that it's the law. If the president just starts going around ignoring laws that they don't find useful or convenient, then that's its own form of power grab by the executive branch. That's its own form of ignoring the will of Congress. The beautiful thing about the coin is that Congress has passed a law saying the Treasury secretary can do this. The law is playing on the language. And if you actually look at the history of the debt ceiling, the debt ceiling was designed originally to make it easier for the Treasury to spend. There used to be 100 individual spending financing caps on different bills. And they consolidated all into one to make it easier, just like if you had 25 different bank accounts for, you know, your groceries and your mortgage and your rent. You put it all into one, so you could move funds around more easily. So the debt ceiling was never actually originally intended to be a constraint on financing. It was designed to make financing easier relative to what happened before. It's just that, you know, as often is the case once we create a law like that, it gets used in perverse ways.

CO: But I mean, this whole coin minting law that this would allow, this gimmick as Janet Yellen calls it, that the minting is something is meant for collector's coins, right? Is this really what the law was intended to do, which is to get around the idea that they can't just go out and print a lot of money?

RG: Well, interestingly enough, the reason those collected coin programs were established, and the director of the Mint at the time, Philip Diehl, who was the co-author of that law, that provision, has been very clear about this, was to generate revenue from the sale of coins. That that revenue would then go into the regular Treasury account and would reduce the need to issue debt. So in the narrow sense, it was intended for commemorative coins. But in the broadest sense, it was intended to be an alternative source of revenue so that there was less borrowing that needed to be happen, which is exactly what we're talking about doing now, obviously with a few more zeros at the end. But that's a matter of degree, not kind. And when that law was passed, it was extremely intentional that it was written to say whatever denomination the Treasury secretary wants.

CO: OK, when you say that it's just a few more zeros than with the coin is usually used for. I mean, we're talking about 12 zeros here, right? I mean, so a trillion dollars is a big chunk of change to put into your economy. And the warning is, or the concern is, is that it could trigger hyperinflation, no?

RG: Well, economists have been pretty clear on this that the difference between financing the deficit with Treasury securities and financing the deficit with coinage is not one of one being more inflationary than the other. If the coin ends up at the Fed, which is what would happen. The Fed has seven trillion dollars of Treasury securities on its balance sheet right now. So if they wanted to, they could take the coin onto their balance sheet and simply release a trillion dollars of Treasury securities that they already have. And that effect, those two steps together, would be identical to if the Treasury had just issued Treasury securities in the first place out into circulation. But we often think of, you know, printing money as more inflationary than printing debt, but it's not.

CO: OK, so the impact of this coin, you know, you can't call it a loonie because we already have that, as tempting as that might be. Some have suggested calling it a Ponzi. But I wonder what might be beyond the coin if this becomes more than a hypothetical? What would be the image? What's the head you would see put on this?

RG: Yeah, I'd be quite happy putting Senator McConnell's face on it and thanking him for all his support. [chuckling] But you know, you could put an eagle on it. You could put whatever else. The platinum coins today already have an eagle. This idea that the U.S. government is a Ponzi scheme is a category error because it's the one entity that does create the points. It's like saying he went to a bowling alley and the bowling alley gave you points every time you scored a strike. Well, where did those points come from, right? Well, is the bowling alley running a Ponzi scheme? No, of course not. At some level, when we all use money, somebody has to be creating that money. And the reality is, as uncomfortable as that may be for people to appreciate, that comes from the U.S. government.

CO: Professor Grey, we will leave it there, thank you.

RG: Thank you so much.

CH: Rohan Grey is a law professor at Willamette University. He was in Salem, Oregon.

[music: spoopy]

OED Korean Words

Guest: Jieun Kiaer

CH: Maybe you're watching the current Netflix sensation, "Squid Game". [scoffs] Maybe you love the band BTS. Of course you do; who doesn't. And if you know K-pop or K-beauty, you probably know the term "hallyu" -- in English, "Korean wave". A word that refers to South Korean pop culture and entertainment itself, which is well on its way to conquering the world. As further proof of that: the Oxford English Dictionary has just added "hallyu", and 25 other words, to its latest edition. Jieun Kiaer is one of the consultants who contributed to the project to update the English dictionary. She's a professor of Korean Linguistics. We reached her in Oxford, England.

CO: Jieun, what do you think about all these Korean words being included in the Oxford English Dictionary?

JIEUN KIAER: Oh, I'm very happy and very pleased with these words included in OED, Oxford English Dictionary. I work on these words over the summer, and yeah, I feel very proud of these words and I'm very happy.

CO: It's not surprising that so many of them have to deal with food, right? Because Korean food is now very much part of our world. And so just maybe tell us a bit about the food words that have been included?

JK: Yeah, the food word that be included in the OED this time. Of course, we had before, kimchi. But this time, we had chimaek and mukbang. This is the case in not only Korean, but in other languages too, that those culinary words, the food words, these are the words that somehow survive and thrive because we use those words every day. And particularly, for those words that I just mentioned, Korean food words, Korean food becomes very much popular through Korean wave film and drama people watch a lot, and become very, you know, curious about those words. So, I think these are the words actually that English speakers use and tweet a lot in romanized forms and they become visible to OED editors. And they this time entered the OED.

CO: These words get into the Oxford English dictionary because they get into our lives. The OED doesn't impose these words on us. They... they recognize that words become part of our lexicon. And maybe just tell us a bit about some of the foods you just mentioned, like chimaek and... and mukbang. Just tell us what these are?

JK: Chimaek means chicken. And maegju means beer. So chicken and beer. Chimaek itself is not really a Korean word, but is some sort of Korean hybrid word, which is a bit of English and bit of Chinese origin, but is somehow coined in Korean drama and in Korean life. So somehow, if you ask Korean people whether chimaek is Korean? They may not be so sure. And also, chimaek is not in Korean dictionary. But because of so many people watch Korean drama and they will still come across chimaek, the way how people drink a beer and eat chicken at the same time, this word was coined and used by non-Korean global viewers. And the OED editors, of course, noticed this word. And chimaek entered OED. And the characteristic of OED, once you enter... the word enters into the dictionary, it never leaves, which means that at time, Korean people would not know the meaning of chimaek. So they have to find the meaning of chimaek from OED. [CO chuckles] Other word like mukbang, which is also interesting. And again, like it, probably in Korean romanized ways, M-E-O-K. But somehow, the viewers who do not know Korean or Korean romanization romanize M-U-K, and this became most popular. So OED picked up mukbang, which is M-U-K-B-A-N-G in the OED, which is very significant because it somehow represents the way how people perceive those Korean food words rather than the way how it is first presented in Korean or by Koreans.

CO: What are the other ways that Korean culture, Korean language has entered our world? People have seen that perhaps the best-selling foreign film, I think, of our time, Parasite, which won awards all around the world. There’s a Netflix series that is very popular, Squid Game. What are some of the other ways that these Korean words have become of interest to English speakers?

JK: It’s interesting, if you read books, those were very often translated so people cannot pick it up. But for Netflix dramas and films, although you can see those subtitles you hear all the time, those words. And those words are actually kind of found footage that you remember and also very easy to remember because you see the very little food with the Korean coinage. So something that people remember at the end.

CO: It's also music with all the K-pop hits that are on the charts, and the Gangnam Style, which for people remember from some years ago. But there are some of these words that are... the Oxford English Dictionary has taken in because they have... have a deeper meaning or words that could actually end up being quite commonly used in English, and one of them is skinship. Can you tell us what that means?

JK: Yeah, the skinship actually is a very interesting word because the word is first coined in Japan, but somehow it became much more popular and more meanings added from Korean side. And again, like in a skinship to experience a lot in watching K-drama how Koreans actually express their affection, mother and children, or like between friends. You know, it’s kind of different from romantic love. So it's something that you cannot really express in English language, but it's something that is very much Korean. So people nowadays really understand what skinship is. Actually, it’s something that was... so I believe that it enriches the English language because in the English language, there's no word that could express that sort of gentle level of affection. And in a way, when you think about the English lexicon itself, it's of all the words from everywhere. And in a way, I think these Korean words would also be there to enrich and make English more diverse and beautiful.

CO: Skinship certainly is a word I can see that people will have a wide application for. But now there’s your 26 Korean words.

JK: Yes.

CO: Do you think that there will be more? Is there... do you think that we'll see more Korean words enter into the… into the Oxford English Dictionary?

JK: Yeah, I think there will be many more. It's very interesting because when you think about, historically, there are not many Korean words and kind of more Japanese words. And when you think about the food words, too, like more Japanese influence or Chinese influence. But for the Korean side, we only had very few food words. [chuckling] kimchi, as we can imagine. But nowadays, I think the Korean wave made the real interest, the global interest about Korean culture and language. So I think that we will continue, this trend will continue, for many years, I hope. [chuckling]

CO: Well, we will look forward to more words entering our lexicon then. Jieun, it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

JK: Thank you.

CH: Jieun Kiaer is a Korean Linguistics Professor at the University of Oxford, and a consultant for the Oxford English Dictionary. She's in Oxford. And you can find more on that story on our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: ambient]

Conspiracy Theories

CH: By now you've probably heard about the recent spate of attacks by violent otters in Alaska. There were three in September alone, possibly by the same gang of water weasels.The so-called experts are puzzled -- but they "otter" know better. Yeah, let me take you through it: the North American river otter is a relative of the South American giant otter. That giant otter's habitat is the Amazon River. And the owner of Amazon is...Jeff Bezos. And suddenly it all becomes clear: Jeff Bezos has trained a small army of vicious otters as part of his plot for world domination. Obviously, that's ridiculous. But millions of people believe dozens of conspiracy theories as ridiculous, and more damaging, than that. Scientists have come up with a number of reasons for that disturbing phenomenon. But a new study confirms one reason people get entangled in theories that are convoluted and wildly implausible is: because they're fun. After conducting a series of five studies, researchers from VU Amsterdam didn't just conclude that people find conspiracy theories entertaining -- more entertaining than the facts. They also concluded that those who found a given conspiracy theory especially entertaining were actually more likely to believe it for that very reason. That's bad news for the truth, which isn't always a thrill ride. And our obsession with continually finding plots suggests we've lost the plot.

[music: a song by the Zohra Orchestra]

Part 2: Afghan Musicians In Portugal, Genius Dogs

Afghan Musicians In Portugal

Guest: Ahmad Sarmast

CH: The musicians of the all-female Zohra Orchestra, performing at the Sydney Opera House in October 2019. They're members of the Afghanistan National Institute of Music. But it's unclear when, or if, they'll be able to make music in Afghanistan again. This week, about 100 students, alumni, and faculty members of the Institute fled Kabul for Doha -- where they're awaiting another flight to Portugal. The government there has granted them asylum in the face of Taliban opposition to music and artistic expression in general. Ahmad Sarmast is the founder and director of the Afghanistan National Institute of Music. He helped orchestrate the group's escape this week. We reached him in Melbourne.

CO: Ahmad, how are these members of the Afghanistan National Institute of Music? How are they doing right now?

AHMAD SARMAST: They're extremely happy, excited and relieved that they left Afghanistan. Currently, they're waiting to move to the next step. But they told me that still, they say it seems like they're dreaming. And one faculty left me a message yesterday that, to Dr. Sarmast, I'm practically mentally sick. This has had such a bad impact on me that I don't know how long it's going to take me to recover, but I'm pleased. I'm... I'm... I'm very pleased and happy to be to the freedom.

CO: Can you just give us a sense of what these young musicians have been going through for the past two months? They've been in hiding for the most part, haven't they?

AS: Yes, they were hiding. They were in their houses sheltering, but I was receiving many messages, many emails, many stories back from Afghanistan about their feelings, about the stress, about their fear. I was receiving many messages, Dr. Sarmast, what's happening with us? We did... did we stuck here? What's going to happen with our music? Whether we will be allowed to listen to music? What we should do? What's going to happen? Who's going to help us? Who’s going to rescue us. So that was the question that I was continuously receiving from the students. And I was trying my best to help them to keep their morale up and to tell them that people around the world are working to help and to support you. And you make... you're going to make your music career, you're going to... you'll be able to learn your music. And I'm so pleased that now they're out and they have access back to music. And they’re enjoying to play soccer. And I remember yesterday I received a message from a colleague of mine who is currently my focal point in Doha. And he said, Dr. Sarmast, I wish you were here to see all the men in the group shaved their beard. So, I wish there was someone filming that that beautiful scene.

CO: [chuckling] But now, they... they are... they have a future now playing their instruments, playing music, listening to music, all of these things, only because they are no longer in Afghanistan. And just tell us about how limited, how impossible, that would now be for them if they had to stay?

AS: For the people who are still stuck in Afghanistan, and we are working to get them also, music is currently banned. And each time I spoke with some Taliban authorities, the response was that, hey, music is unlawful, but still, we’re going to be following the instructions that will be coming from our superiors. We are waiting for a decision to be made about music. But music is currently silenced in Afghanistan. People are not allowed to play music. But people are going to be able to play music or to listen to music in public. The memories of the past or the repressive policies of the Taliban are very clear. People remember what happened with the people who have been playing, or learning, or listening, listening to music in the past. Plus, everything right now is not the central government, what they said, what they promised. But their foot soldiers are making their own rules and regulations on the grounds of Kabul.

CO: And so for these young people who love music, playing it, listening to it and those who are... that spent these past two months before they could leave, but also those who are still there, how... how painful is that for them, that they're denied access to the thing that... that they love so much?

AS: To answer your question, I probably may put forward back a question to you. Would you listen a day not having access to music? What would be your feeling?

CO: It would be awful.

AS: What would be your feeling being prevented from listening to a piece of music that you love? But forget about if you would be asked... asked or instructed or ordered or forced not to play a musical instrument? It is a very painful, painful process to go through, and it is a very heartbreaking not being able and not being allowed to chase your dream, and not being allowed to do what you… what you love to do.

CO: You founded this Afghanistan National Institute of Music, and I know you have faced tremendous opposition from the Taliban when you were still in Afghanistan. In fact, you were badly injured when a suicide bomber targeted your Institute, right?

AS: Yes, I was. That was an incident... an incident in 2014, yes. When the Taliban suicide bomber exploded himself in one of our concerts. And, of course, it was a very, very tragic incident. Two people were killed in this incident. Many people were injured. But everyone in the concert venue, they've been traumatized for the rest of their… rest of their life.

CO: And so this must send a message to the young musicians that... that there is no future in music with the Taliban?

AS: Currently, there is not only a future for music with the Taliban, but there is no future for girls education in Afghanistan. Taliban has stopped girls age 12 and over to go to the schools. So girls are currently allowed in Afghanistan to study only to the primary level. And after primary level, there is no need indication it is accessible to them.

CO: And so these young people are… were able to leave. They’re now in Doha and Qatar and are on their way to Europe, ultimately. But I wonder, do you think it'll ever be possible to perform music in Afghanistan again?

AS: Why not? Why not? If not under the Taliban, but definitely Afghanistan always was a musical country. The people of Afghanistan loved music. Music was always a part of the Afghan cultural and social life. The music in Afghanistan has a very deep and vibrant history. So I'm confident in it. The same way that music was written and brought back to Afghanistan and people were once again... began embracing music, it's going to happen again. But our job currently is to save the musical entities of Afghanistan for the future generations. And at the same time, to convince the Taliban that banning music will have severe consequences on the musical heritage of Afghanistan.

CO: Ahmad, I really appreciate speaking with you and hearing that some of these musicians are safe. I hope you're able to help the others as well, but thank you.

AS: Thank you very much.

CO: Take care. Bye-bye.

AS: Thank you. Bye-bye.

CH: Ahmad Sarmast is the founder and director of the Afghanistan National Institute of Music. We reached him in Melbourne, Australia.

[music: ambient]

Quebec's Indigenous Affairs Minister

CH: Quebec's premier may not think that his province has a problem with system discrimination. But François Legault's Minister of Indigenous Affairs, Ian Lafrenière, says that isn't going to stop their government from addressing the inadequate treatment of Indigenous people in the province's health care system. Yesterday, the coroner who investigated the death of Joyce Echaquan in a Joliette hospital found that racism contributed to the death of the Atikamekw woman. The coroner's top recommendation was that the province acknowledge the existence of systemic racism. Premier Legault refused. This morning, Minister Lafrenière, a former police officer, was asked why.

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IAN LAFRENIERE: As a police officer, I've seen many reports of coroner, and I don't think that this morning, we'll be ready to say that every recommendation were put in place. That's the way they call that recommendation. And we take that seriously. And, honestly, all of a sudden think that this morning, I was accepting systemic racism that all of the situation will change in Quebec. And I don't think anyone would say that. We don't have the same vision on that. And I do respect people with different vision. I was in the field last week, and believe me, people were asking for something concrete to stop fighting over those words.

PETER TARDIF: So what are the concrete actions highlighted in this report that you see as a priority?

IL: Well, first of all, we get a new person in charge, which is extremely appreciate from the community. The deputy is a member of the community of Manawan. We get a person on the board of the hospital, also from Manawan and two navigators. And again, this is a start. Also, you get training. As everyone know, unfortunately, it doesn't always go as we would love to. And that's why we're going to... We're going to change that. We need to improve this. We need more people to be trained because we need to fight the way that people see First Nations.

CH: That was Quebec's Indigenous Affairs Minister Ian Lafrenière speaking with CBC Quebec City's Peter Tardif this morning.

[music: ambient]

Genius Dogs

Guest: Shany Dror

CH: A lot of dogs will fetch a ball -- but some aren't exactly on the ball. As much as we love them, it's hard not to question the intelligence of a creature that has a full bowl of delicious high-protein dog food, but clearly prefers eating actual garbage. Some dogs, however, are exceptionally smart. Take Chaser the border collie. We told you about her a few years ago, after she died. She knew the words for more than a thousand toys. Here's guest host Rosemary Barton speaking to Pilley Bianchi. She's the daughter of psychologist John Pilley, Chaser's owner and trainer.

SOUNDCLIP

RB: How smart was she?

PB: Well, she was able to manipulate and get her way on a daily basis. [RB laughs] But what garnered her international fame is that she had the largest language learning of any animal based on her formal language learning.

RB: Incredible. So this was work that your father, John Pilley, — who died last year — did with her. How did he manage to teach Chaser 1000 words?

PB: [chuckling] Well, with a lot of dogged persistence. That's who my father was. But it was all through play. He got Chaser as a two-month-old border collie with the goal of teaching her human language. And any language, you need a vocabulary, so her vocabulary was going to be her toys. And he started teaching her at eight weeks through a process called errorless learning and proceeded to teach her the new name of a toy every three days. And by the time she was five months old, she had that "aha" moment. Ah, words! Words have meaning! When he's holding up this toy, it means this is the name of that toy.

CH: Well, Chaser may have been the world's smartest dog. But, it turns out, there are other so-called "genius dogs" out there. And Shany Dror and her colleagues tracked them down and taught them each dozens of words. We reached Ms. Dror in Budapest.

CO: Shany, we just heard about Chaser the border collie. How did the story of Chaser inspire you to find out if there are other super-smart dogs?

SHANY DROR: So we've heard about Chaser, and we know of a few very few cases of other dogs, and we were wondering if Chaser was special or was it due to the very extensive training that she received? So we decided that we're going to train some dogs for ourselves and find out. And, actually, we found that it was not working. And we worked with a lot of dogs for three months, intensively trying to train them. And they did not learn. So it seems that Chaser was indeed special. And also, a few of the other dogs that we have found are special indeed.

CO: All right. So what you determined was that not all dogs can do this, right? But you did find a half-dozen dogs, six dogs, that you did study who were quite exceptional?

SD: Yes, it took us a very long time to find these dogs. And we've been searching all over the world for them, and we have from Brazil, Netherlands, Norway, Spain, one in Hungary, so all over the world. And this inspired us to also try and find more dogs from all over the world. And we are still searching for dogs. And that's how we came up with the Genius Dog Challenge to be not only a scientific experiment but also something that we can share with the public and bring it to people's homes through live broadcasts.

CO: Now, Chaser was a border collie, but all the dogs in your study, the supersmart dogs, they're all border collies as well. Is that a coincidence?

SD: Well, I wouldn't say it's a coincidence, but it's also not a given. So most of the dogs indeed that show this ability to learn names of objects are border collies. But this is not a uniquely border collie trait. There are dogs from other breeds that can do it. And also, there are... most of the border collies that we have seen cannot do it. So even among border collies, this is a very rare trait.

CO: We heard a little bit about how John Pilley, the owner of Chaser, how he was able to teach Chaser the names of these toys. How did you go about teaching this vocabulary for toys to the dogs in your study?

SD: So we tried... when we were training dogs, we tried to do pretty much the same. AAnd intensively train them, but the dogs that we have found, so the ones that we contacted and already knew the names of toys, they were not specifically trained. They were just playing around. The owners were playing with the dogs with the toys. And then, one day, they realized that their dogs know the names of the toys because they said the name of the toy, and suddenly, the dog appeared with the toy in its mouth.

CO: And how many... how many names of toys? Because in the case of Chaser, it was a thousand of these, right? How many words did they have?

SD: Yeah. So they have a lot. It changes a bit. But I think by now, all of them have over 100. Some of them have close to 200 words by now, toys. I don't know where the owners have so much space in their house [CO laughs] for 200 toys?

CO: Because the dogs are hiding the toys underneath the couch and in the corner and places they can't find... only the dog knows. And so, did they... did they retain the memory of where they... of these words from week to week?

SD: So what we tested in our experiment was, do they really retain? Because I think a lot of students can relate to the fact that when you try to study a lot in a very short time, then you do not remember. And we asked the dogs to learn the names of 12 toys in only one week. That's very intensive. And they did, in fact, remember for up to two months the names of the toys. That was very surprising.

CO: But these are the names of things that the dogs like, right? I mean, people listening to this who have dogs know that if they say the word car or walk or treat, that the dogs pick up words that matter to them. So they... most dogs do seem to have a few words in their vocabulary, right? Or their understanding.

SD: Yeah, and this... this is something that we were also very puzzled of with the beginning. Dogs are very good at learning words that relate to actions. So all of the dogs can learn to sit down, stay, simple associations between food and let's go for a walk and things like that. But when it comes to names of objects, they start to have trouble. That's where we see that only very few dogs can actually learn words that refer to objects.

CO: Well, when we heard about Chaser, one of the things about Chaser is that even though Chaser could identify a thousand words, apparently Chaser was not very well trained. [chuckling] Chaser would not sit her roll over or do whatever he was told. So that wasn't what Chaser was in to. [laughing] That was a very smart dog. It wasn't a trained dog, right?

SD: Yeah. But I would also say that this could be because he's a border collie. And while, as they said, they are very smart, and in one sense, they're very easy to train, but in the other, they can do whatever they want. And they learn how to manipulate humans so good. They are perfect human trainers.

CO: You have a German shepherd, right?

SD: Yes.

CO: How smart is he or she?

SD: Um, I would say a bit less than average, but I love him a lot. [CO chuckles]

CO: What is so... what's your... what's your dog's name?

SD: Mekos.

CO: Have you been able to teach Mekos any words?

SD: He knows a lot of obedience commands. And I think by now, he also knows me screaming to him not to jump out of the window. But [chuckling] other than that, no.

CO : But you love your dog.

SD: I love him a lot.

CO: Good boy! All right. We're going to leave it there. Thanks so much, Shany.

SD: Thank you very much.

CO: Bye.

CH: Shany Dror is an animal researcher and the lead author of a new study on so-called "genius dogs." She was in Budapest, Hungary. If you have a dog who knows the words for toys, Ms. Dror's team wants to hear about it -- at geniusdogproject.com. And we'd like to hear about your dog too, whether exceptionally smart or exceptionally not. Our Talkback number is 416-205-5687. And we're on Facebook and Twitter: @cbcasithappens.

[music: ambient]

NB Circuit Breaker Restrictions

CH: People in New Brunswick will be struggling to muster up a positive-sounding toast at Thanksgiving dinner this weekend. Not that there's likely to be much family around the table to hear it anyway. The province has instituted a so-called "circuit breaker". Putting new restrictions in place amid a spike in COVID cases. That means indoor and outdoor gatherings will be limited to single households. The restrictions in some parts of the province will last for at least two weeks. This morning, Premier Blaine Higgs joined Jeanne Armstrong on Information Morning Fredericton to talk about the new measures. Here is part of their conversation.

SOUNDCLIP

BLAINE HIGGS: Household gatherings have been a major source of... of… of people getting infected, and so limiting the contacts is one area over a single household. And although we're doing that across the province for the weekend, we're doing it in the zones that are... that are part of the circuit breaker for two weeks. Because these areas have been our biggest source of fatalities, and our hospitals are under… certainly in that region are under the most strain.

JEANNE ARMSTRONG: I do want to get to Thanksgiving weekend. That's on people's mind right now, and the rules are for the entire province that single households only can have Thanksgiving together. You've said in the past you don't want to penalize people who have gotten vaccines. So why are you doing it now?

BH: I know, Jeanne. And I don't feel the least bit good about this. It's going to impact everyone's family, including my own in... in a... in a negative way socially. But the facts are that family gatherings, unchecked, have caused significant outbreaks to us. So everyone gets together, some are vaccinated, some... some aren't, and then everybody walks out as a transmitter. And we've seen it. It's not... it's not just a, you know, taken… oh well, we should do this to. It's like we have seen cases as their contact-traced where they've originated. So we just need to take this weekend and not look back at it two weeks from now and say, boy, I wish we'd have done something differently on Thanksgiving weekend.

JA: But there's a lot of New Brunswickers who feel that's a slap in the face. They've been working so hard this past year-and-a-half. They're families who are fully vaccinated. They've followed every rule to the letter of the law. Why not just say, OK, you can gather together if you're vaccinated, but single households only for the unvaccinated? Do you not trust New Brunswickers to do the right thing?

BH: You know, it is... it is a slap in the face. I know that. And... and it was a hard decision to make. And we debated it. We all debated it at length because of... of what it means for every family in the province. But the fact is that there are many families, probably 90 per cent of the families, would follow that. But 10 per cent would throw caution to the wind. So let's not turn this into a weekend of when things just go off. You know, reschedule for another week down the road or just... just make some changes that will allow us to, you know, postpone Thanksgiving weekend for... for a bit.

CH: That was New Brunswick premier Blaine Higgs speaking with the CBC's Jeanne Armstrong this morning.

[music: ambient]

Part 3: Slavery Signs Removed, Minnesota Cyclist Rescue

Raab Meaning of Misogyny

CH: Since a London Police officer was convicted of murdering Sarah Everard, many in the U.K. have been calling on the government to make misogyny a hate crime. British Prime Minister Boris Johnson has rejected the idea -- saying "If you simply widen the scope of what you ask the police to do, you'll just increase the problem." But after an appearance by Justice Secretary Dominic Raab on the BBC's Breakfast program this morning, a lot of people are wondering whether their government even understands what the word misogyny means. It began when the BBC's Sally Nugent asked Mr. Raab about the Prime Minister's comments.

SOUNDCLIP

SALLY NUGENT: I just wanted to start with something that we heard the prime minister say on this program yesterday. He said, speaking to us live on Breakfast yesterday, he does not support calls to make misogyny a hate crime. What's your view on that?

DOMINIC RAAB: Well, look, I think we have often seen in the criminal justice system over decades, people trying to legislate away what is an enforcement problem. So I think insults, and misogyny is, of course, absolutely wrong, whether it's a man against a woman or woman against a man. But... but I don't think that will tackle the problem in the cases like either the Sarah Everard case, which is very serious and we take very seriously, or the wider challenge of getting more prosecutions through to a successful conviction for violence against women and girls. So I understand why people raise it. It's a... it's a... it's a legitimate issue and debate to have, but I don't think that will solve the problem that we've got or indeed give confidence to the many women who after the Sarah Everard case, I think, are very fearful, anxious and need positive reassurance and need the kind of action that will fix the problem. And that's what we're focussed on.

SN: OK, I just want to clarify something you said right at the start of our conversation this morning. You said misogyny is absolutely wrong, whether it's a man against a woman or a woman against a man. Is that what you meant to say?

DR: Well, what I meant is if we're talking about things below the level of public order offences of harassment, intimidation, which are rightly criminalized, if we're talking about effectively insults with a sexist basis, I don't think that criminalising those sorts of things will deal with the problem that we've got at the heart of the Sarah Everard case, which is a question I think around partly around the police, but also the broader question the fear women feel that their cases don't get to court and don't end up with a conviction. And therefore, just criminalising insulting language, even if it's misogynistic, doesn't deal with the intimidation, the violence and the much higher level of... of offence and damage and harm that we really ought to be laser-like focussed in on.

SN: The dictionary definition of misogyny is hatred against or directed towards women.

DR: Well, if any of that... so, inciting hatred, intimidation, harassment are already criminal offences. So what I would say is don't create other lower level offences. What you want to do is focus on how you enforce the offences that we've got in law, which protect women from precisely the kind of intimidation and harassment that I think you're focussing on. But reducing the bar and saying, actually, insults should be criminalized. I don't think we'll deal with what women across this country are fearful of, which is the risk to life or limb, the risk of intimidation, the risk of harassment. All of those things are already criminal. The question is how we enforce those laws much more effectively and much more sensitively to women.

CH: That was UK Justice Secretary Dominic Raab appearing to misunderstand the meaning of misogyny, while speaking with the BBC's Sally Nugent this morning.

[music: tense droning]

Slavery Signs Removed

Guest: Andrew Hunter

CH: Andrew Hunter is asking the city of Hamilton, Ontario to stop tearing down his signs. Mr. Hunter is an author and artist, and he's been putting up his signs in the Dundas community in Hamilton. They describe the life of a 19th-century resident called Sophia Burthen. Ms. Burthen wasn't in Dundas voluntarily. She was an African-American born into an enslaved family in New York -- and purchased as a child by Joseph Brant -- the famous Mohawk leader, before being sold again to one of the businessmen who put Dundas on the map. We reached Andrew Hunter in Hamilton.

CO: Andrew, why have you been putting up signs about Sophia Burthen in Dundas, Ontario?

ANDREW HUNTER: I've been doing it for a couple of reasons. One is her story has been largely ignored and... or misrepresented. And her story is a remarkable gift that she left us. She was an enslaved woman who came from the United States to Canada. And her... an interview that was done with her and published in the 1850s is the only known first-person account from somebody enslaved in Canada. And Dundas and Hamilton, where I live and grew up, has a real history of ignoring certain histories, leaving a lot of people out of the story.

CO: So how did Sophia Burthen come to be in Dundas, Ontario?

AH: So you have to remember it wasn't called Dundas at the time. But anyways, you go back, she was born in the United States in the Hudson Valley, a place called Fishkill. She was stolen at the age of seven, and then taken across New York, sold to Joseph Brant, the Mohawk warchief, who then brought her into what is now Canada in 1785. And then, she lives with him for about 20 years, and then he sells her at the end of his life to Samuel Hatt. Samuel Hatt was one of the hatt brothers who came from the U.K. and developed Mills and everything in Dundas.

CO: Right.

AH: So that's how she ends up here, and that happens around 1897 that she's purchased and arrives in Dundas.

CO: The story is... you say it's not well known, but it wouldn't have been known at all had it not been for an abolitionist who actually recorded Sophia Burthen’s story in this in this book, The Legacy of Slavery in Canada. So we know a bit about her, but you have been writing about her. Is that right?

AH: Yeah, I've spent the last four years pretty well exclusively focused on researching and writing about and from and under the sort of guidance of Sophia, if you,... if you will. I'm interested in... in the process of history. I'm interested in trying to treble the history of Canada. I'm interested in challenging the fact that... that... not that there's so little known about the history of slavery in Canada. But people seem to be, like, unwilling to engage the history and the complexity that one often encounters in this kind of work. Like, a lot of pushback and barriers and twisting of the story. So in the case of Sophia here in the Dundas, Hamilton, Ancaster… like, you know, people always want to point off in another direction. They want to say, Oh, Joseph Brant, you know, and then you start talking about kind of misrepresenting who Brent was and the history of slavery within Indigenous communities. They... people have rarely actually gone in and said, well, who was Sophia? Where did she come from? And yes, she was interviewed, and we should be grateful to Benjamin Drew for coming to Canada from Boston, interviewing all these people. But more so, we should be very grateful to Sophie as an elderly woman who shared this story, this totally unique story, and gave it to us. And, unfortunately, her real story has never really, truly been engaged with. It's always kind of used for something else.

CO: Right? And I appreciate what you're... what you're suggesting. But it is true, the story that Sophia Burthen was purchased by the Mohawk leader Joseph Brant. And then he sold her to Samuel Hatt, who is one of the founding fathers of... of your town, of your city. So that part of the story is true, is it not?

AH: Absolutely true. Definitely. I mean, and... and knowing about that is really important. Sophia Burthen, in her interview, actually talks mostly about her time with the Brants. And so we learn a ton about that time. The issue I have often around what happens with Brant is people don't really go deep enough into understanding who Brant was. You know, Joseph Brant is absolutely 100 per cent an indigenous person. But he's also highly colonized. He is both an Indigenous warchief and leader, but he is at the same time, very British. He's Anglican. You know, he becomes a mason. He's heavily involved in buying and selling of lands and business deals. He very much embraces what was a fundamental part of the colonial system in the late 18th and 19th century in the northeastern United States and Canada, which was slavery.

CO: Right. And now, so back to the story of Sophia Burthen. And you have been trying to get people know the story, you've written about it. And these signs you're putting up everywhere, what is it... why is the city tearing them down?

AH: You know, the city says that it's a violation of certain bylaws and rules about signage. That, in some cases, they suggest they're a form of graffiti. In other cases, they say I'm damaging heritage buildings, which aren't actually even listed as heritage buildings.

CO: So the city's been tearing them down. But are they saying that they... they don't want you to tell the story or they're against the story? Or is it they're just thinking that... are they suggesting there's another way for you to get the story out about Sophia Burthen into the public eye?

AH: They're really only talking about the legal, the law, part. It's like there are other ways to do this. You should apply and go through the proper channels, and... and you know, we have a sign program and a plaque program and these things. My issue with that is... is the committee that oversees these things within the city of Hamilton is all, you know, it's all white people. They're all pretty privileged white people who don't know the full history. And I just don't think that that's the path within public space to talk about these things. And so, one of the things that... that's been suggested to me by some folks of the city is that, well, this project of yours seems like pretty ineffectual because you put them up, we take them down. And I've said, well, it's not just the city. It's also people in the community who tear them down and throw them in the ditches or paint over them. But it's also not been ineffectual. It's actually over. The four months created lots of connections within the community. But it's communities that historically have been ignored. And I admit, like, I am bending the rules to do this, but I think the very rules themselves are deeply flawed.

CO: Andrew, thanks for telling us the story.

AH: OK. Very well. Bye.

CO: Bye.

CH: Andrew Hunter's book on Sophia Burthen is due out in January. It's called It Was Dark There All the Time. Mr. Hunter is in Hamilton, Ontario.

[music: folk]

Anti-Vaxxer Gets Vaccinated

CH: For more than 20 years, Jason Lerato held the same position on vaccines: he was against them. He was a proud and vocal self-proclaimed "anti-vaxxer". The Winnipeg man had even prevented his kids from getting vaccinated. But now, Mr. Lerato has abandoned those long-held beliefs. He's fully vaccinated against COVID -- and has completely changed his tune on other shots as well. All because of a conversation he had after a family wedding.

SOUNDCLIP

JASON LERATO: You know, it came down to having an evening with my wife's sister and her husband, working in the medical field. And after her oldest son's wedding, I decided to stick around afterwards at their house and just having one-on-one conversation. You know, going into the conversation, I was still adamant that they're not going to change their mind. But over the course of three hours, and their approach to my questions and concerns and fears was very sincere, it was very heartfelt. And you know, it changed my mind completely.

MARCY MARKUSA: When you say their approach, can you... can you elaborate on what you mean about what really... why this landed? Because I'm sure, you had conversations with people along the way that maybe tried to sort of have conversations with you that they thought might change your mind.

JL: Oh, for sure. Yeah, you know, I’m... my own personal doctor, you know, personally phoned me and asked me, and... and he's a great doctor, but I just wasn't willing to hear. Because in my mind, I thought, well, I know what he's going to say. Like, OK, I know what's coming. When it was with my family, they answered the question is very medically, you know, with medical terms and facts behind it. And because I trusted them, it made a lot of sense. And I realized that a lot of people that were in my position, you know, I was fortunate to have someone personal in my family that was in the medical field that could speak it in a language that I understood. There was absolutely no coercing. There is no shaming. You know, they did it from a place of compassion. And in the end, they said, it's your decision, we're going to love you regardless.

MM: How quickly can tone turn you off if someone is trying to have a conversation and... can you take it personally that you sort of somehow don't know better? Or what is it about tone that's critical here?

JL: Well, I think tone can affect any conversation, any part of life. And especially when it comes to this because those who were what was believing are very passionate about why they believe they do. And so if someone comes across as, you know, higher than them or I know better than you or you're a fool if you don't do it, their heels are going to dig into the ground that much more.

MM: Tell me, or share, if you don't mind, with the listeners the moment when you... when you told your wife you were going to get vaccinated?

JL: Well, you know, even up to that moment of the wedding, she knew that, you know, there was no convincing me she tried. And you know, when I came home after talking to the family after the wedding, she was sitting on the couch. I sat beside her, and I just looked at her and says, OK, I'm getting the vaccine. I'm going to book it in two days. And it was emotional for her. You know, it was... she was very happy, very pleased about it.

CH: That was Jason Lerato speaking to CBC Manitoba's Marcy Markusa this morning on Information Radio.

Minnesota Cyclist Rescue

Guest: Dr. Jesse Coenen

CH: Doctors do some pretty incredible stuff. But all of it tends to happen in the controlled and sterile environment of a hospital. Two things Jesse Coenen was seriously lacking last month. The Wisconsin emergency room doctor was planning to blow off some steam at a mountain bike trail in Minnesota. Instead, he found himself saving the life of a stranger -- by performing an emergency tracheotomy in the woods. We reached Dr. Jesse Coenen in Hayward, Wisconsin.

CO: Dr. Coenen, when did you realize something was going on at the Cuyuna Lakes Mountain Bike Trails in Minnesota?

DR. JESSE COENEN: Well, two friends and I arrived at the trailhead planning to ride the trail that was new to us. And when we got to the parking lot, there were several emergency vehicles there, and a police officer informed us that there had been a bike accident on the trail, and he was expecting the emergency medical personnel to be bringing the patient to the ambulance any moment. And he informed us that a helicopter had... had already been dispatched. And in fact, at that time, we saw a helicopter fly overhead, and it was landing in town about a mile away at the nearest safe landing spot.

CO: So your sense was that things were under control, that they knew what they were doing. When did you realize that there were complications for this man who had been injured?

DJC: It was not my intention to encounter the accident scene. And we're actually going to avoid the scene. But as we pedalled out down the trail, another police officer was jogging towards the parking lot, and their tanks of oxygen had been used at the scene. And he asked if we would return to the trailhead where the ambulance was and pick up an oxygen tank and then head out on the trail to the accident. So that's when we became involved in the whole situation.

CO: What did you... what did you see when you got there? What was the state of affairs for this man who had been injured?

DJC: When we got there, there was an individual lying face up on the ground, motionless. And there were about a half-dozen personnel around him. And I did not initially introduce myself as a physician. But after listening to the conversation and realizing that they were discussing it intubation, that’s when I realized that my skill set could be helpful.

CO: And so intubation is something as an E.R. doctor, I guess you have a fair bit of experience with?

DJC: Yeah, definitely. Paramedics also can do. And, in fact, it was first attempted by the paramedic. But when she was not able to be successful, that's when she asked me to make an attempt.

CO: So you figured that there was something else that could be done, another procedure. What did you think might actually be the only thing that might save this man's life?

DJC: Well, fortunately, the medics had hooked up monitors to the patient, and we were monitoring his heart rate and blood pressure and oxygen. And as the minutes passed, his oxygen level dropped lower and lower, and it became more and more difficult to move air and oxygen into his lungs. And unfortunately, his oxygen level got worse. And as it lowered to a point where I was concerned that he was at risk of having a cardiac arrest, that's when I realized that we were going to have to do whatever it took to get oxygen into his lungs.

CO: And this is... we should point out this is a bike injury. This is... he was cycling as well, this man when he was injured. And it was apparent that you couldn't get him to the ambulance or to where the helicopter was in time, that it had to be done on location, whatever had to be done, right?

DJC: Right. Yeah, we were located in the woods about a mile down an advanced level bike trail. So we needed to make sure that the patient was stable prior to any of the transport down the trail to the ambulance, which then would have taken to the helicopter in order to take him to the hospital.

CO: If you can describe what you performed, this emergency tracheotomy that you did?

DJC: Yeah, so tracheotomy is the commonly used term. Actually, it was a cricothyrotomy -- just a slightly different spot on the neck. But opening a space into the windpipe directly through the neck, essentially bypassing the mouth and the tongue and the back of the throat. A scalpel is what I used. Fortunately, the medics had that available. And after making the incision through the skin and through the windpipe, the paramedic was able to place the tube into the windpipe to deliver air and oxygen into his lungs. And within moments, his oxygen level started to rise. And that's when I took a sigh of relief, I think.

CO: Yikes! Now, so just... I mean, details are gory here, but you actually had to make an incision around his Adam's apple in order to open up this passage, right?

DJC: Just below the Adam's apple is the spot where the incision is made. And then, after the skin is incised, the membrane is incised next. And that's... then the opening to put the tube through.

CO: Wow! Had you ever done an emergency procedure like this before?

DJC: You know what? In... in medicine, especially rural emergency medicine where I practice, there are several procedures that... that are not done commonly, but that we actually have to be prepared to do. And this is a procedure that I have studied over and over and that I review on a regular basis and that I've performed on mannequins as well as animal models, but never on a... on a live person before. But I felt like I knew what to do in the moment. That doesn't mean it wasn't a stressful situation.

CO: Wow, how stressful was it for you?

DJC: You know, my memory of the moment is a little bit blurry, and I think they lost track of time. So it's hard to gauge the level of stress. I don't think I was literally shaking in the moment. And, hopefully, that's because I felt confident in what I was doing. But the fact that the scene has replayed itself over and over in my mind is evidence of the fact that it was a high-stress event.

CO: And so, then he was able... they did get him to... get him out, get him out of the woods, get him to hospital. Do you know how he is now?

DJC: Yeah, I, you know, I been in touch with him several times. We actually got to meet on Zoom, and have text on several occasions. So I know that he's back at home and optimistic for the future.

CO: And did you carry on with your mountain bike? Did you get a ride in that day?

DJC: Well, after the accident scene and after the patient was in the ambulance, the two friends I was with and I did have a discussion about whether or not we were in a mindset to ride safely, and we decided to embark on the ride. And it ended up being a good idea because I was able to distract myself for the following hour about what had happened. So, in fact, yes, we did.

CO: Dr. Coenen, I'm glad you were there, and thanks for speaking with us.

DJC: Absolutely, my pleasure.

CO: Bye-bye.

DJC: Bye.

CH: Jesse Coenen is an emergency room doctor in Hayward, Wisconsin. And for more on that story, visit our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: glassy guitar]

Fat Bear Week Winner

CH: The competitors were chunky, but the event went smoothly. And now, the votes are counted and the results are in: the winner of the 2021 Fat Bear Week tournament is...4-8-0, aka "Otis"! The annual competition is organized by Katmai National Park in Alaska. It pits the beefiest bears in the park against one another, as the animals try to pack on the pounds for their winter hibernation. Last week, Carol spoke with the park's project manager, Sara Wolman, about last year's winner -- 7-4-7, aka "Bear Force One". And Ms. Wolman explained that she had her eye on "Otis" this year because of his impressive paunch and patient fishing technique.

SOUNDCLIP

SW: They really do get insanely massive. So last year, we had a GIS specialist come out and use lidar to actually estimate the weight of 747. And he came in at about 1,400 pounds, which is incredibly impressive.

CO: And just in case anyone thinks we're fat-shaming these bears, I mean, this is... these... all of these bears are about to go into hibernation, right?

SW: Oh yeah, no. I always like to say thick is in [both chuckle]for the bears at Brooks Falls. They... they're supposed to get as fat as possible. It's a... it's a badge of honour.

CO: They... now, they all have their own methods. As you've just mentioned about how some of them are aggressively going after the salmon, some just sit and wait. And you mentioned Otis, who has his own style, right? Do you want to describe how Otis catches his fish?

SW: Oh, sure. A lot of people call him the Zen Master Otis that sits in his office, which is on the far side of Brooks Falls. He is a really... he's really good at just hanging out and letting the fish come to him. So he's found this to be a pretty successful tactic. He'll just sit in one spot, feel around for fish as they swim by and then just nabs them. So he doesn't put a lot of energy into getting fish, which is actually a really good thing for a bear. It allows him to get really fat in a... in a fairly short amount of time.

CO: And how's Otis looking at this point?

SW: He's looking really good. So we were... we were worried. He's an older bear. They estimate him to be around, like, anywhere from 25 to 27. And he didn't show up until late July. And we were worried he wasn't going to show up. And he looked like skin and bones in late July. And in between that time and now, he has grown tenfold. He is massive, so that's why I think he's going to be in the top three contenders for this contest.

CH: Katmai National Park project manager Sara Wolman speaking with Carol about "Zen Master Otis" -- the winner of this year's Fat Bear Week competition.

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October 06, 2021 Episode Transcript

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