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ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Hav, have you ever been in a situation where you’re downtown or somewhere busy and you see someone who you assume is blind and seems kind of lost or like they might need some help and ask yourself, hmm, should I ask this person if they need help? Should I not ask that question? Is that presumptive? What do I do here?

HARVINDER WADHWA: Oh, it's a very good question, Elena. I have not experienced it. I have seen people who I'm quite sure they are blind, the guide dogs and the white canes, etc., but they have not been struggling. So I have not done anything about it. Like I don't know of the thousand other people who are on the road.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: You know, we're Torontonians. We like ignoring people. We like being just kind of aloof and unfriendly no matter who you are.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Yes, but that's a very good question as to what the etiquettes are.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: I worry about making assumptions from, maybe an ill-informed place, about what someone I see on the street can or can't do.

HARVINDER WADHWA: I would definitely would want to help. And I would not be shy to ask the question, “can I help?” But now you have put this in my head. Is this an appropriate question? So I guess we have to find that out.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yes, I think we do.

[Music]

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Christine Ha is a chef and author based in Houston, Texas. She was the season three winner and the first ever blind contestant of the cooking competition show MasterChef. Here's a clip from the show.

CHRISTINE HA [CLIP]: Before I lost my vision, I was able to cook in the kitchen perfectly fine, and then I lost my vision and I had to learn everything over again and I did it. And now I'm back in the kitchen cooking even better than before.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So, Christine, can you tell us about your career as a chef and how you got where you are now?

CHRISTINE HA: I would say I sort of accidentally fell into my culinary career. So my original degree in undergrad was in business. So I was kind of on the path in the corporate world and then I had all these health issues where I began to lose my vision. I left the corporate world and then I decided to go back to grad school for creative writing, which is a completely different field. And it was during my graduate school stint that I decided to audition for MasterChef because cooking has always been a much loved hobby of mine. And then when I went to go on MasterChef and ended up winning the season, that's when it kind of launched my culinary career. And so it kind of took off since then. And, you know, I've been able to write a cookbook and judge other television cooking shows. As well as, now I have two restaurants in Houston, but I would say that, you know, I didn't initially set out thinking I would be a chef or a restaurateur at all.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: And now you are! That's so cool.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Wow.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: You mentioned losing your sight as you were building your culinary career. Can you tell us a bit more about how that happened?

CHRISTINE HA: Yeah, I experienced my first bout of vision loss when I was 20 years old. It was around the time when I had first started learning to cook or teaching myself how to cook in college. And I noticed that one of my eyes was blurry and so I went to go see an optometrist and they ran all sorts of tests on me and concluded that it wasn't anything wrong with my eye, but it was actually something neurological. So I was referred to a neuro-opthamologist and eventually diagnosed with neural myelitis optica or NMO, which is an autoimmune condition that primarily attacks the optic nerves and the spinal cord and it's similar to multiple sclerosis. When people ask, “how much do I see?” I know people sometimes often assume that blindness is either black or white. It's like, you know, you either see everything or you don't see anything at all. But it's really a spectrum. So the way I describe my vision is I see some colour, some contrast of color. Mostly everything is very blurry and hazy and kind of like shadows. So I always, it always kind of feels like I'm drifting through a cloud, I guess is how I would describe it.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So this time, because in percentage terms, you would say you can see about 20 per cent or something there abouts?

CHRISTINE HA: I would say I probably see maybe maybe 10 per cent of what I used to be able to see.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: This episode we're talking about people asking blind folks, “Do you need help?” Do you have a particular story or a memory of being asked this question that comes to mind?

CHRISTINE HA: It's a careful balance, I think, to ask a visually impaired person or a blind person if they need help. I think, you know, I've been in a position where I've felt at both ends of that sort of spectrum. So I found myself in a situation where I'm struggling to cross the street or find a certain location in downtown by myself. And then, you know, there I hear people kind of walking by quickly, but not acknowledging at all that I look lost. And that's frustrating. So I think eventually I've learned to find my voice and just be aggressive about it and just kind of, you know, accost someone and just be like, please, you know, can you help me find this? And more often than not, people are very willing to help you find a location. And then I've been on the other end where people are overly helpful and try to, you know, for example, in the kitchen, like, do everything for me, like cut my stuff and just say, like, oh, be careful, there's a knife there. And I'm like, yeah, I know I placed my knife there. Or, you know, if I'm trying to, I don't know, just do very, I feel like very mundane things that I would be very capable of doing. And, you know, I think it's a matter of education and letting people know, you know, different people want different amounts of help.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

HARVINDER WADHWA: I have not met I've seen people who are visually impaired, but I've never spoken to a person who's visually impaired. So it's kind of hard for people to know what is the oh, what is the limit they should be going to, to help?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: How do you think people should gauge that, Christine?

CHRISTINE HA: I think it's totally OK to say, you know, if you see someone that you think might look like they're struggling, could use help. It's perfectly fine to say ma’am, sir, like, you know, would you like some help? And if, you know, they may take it, they may not. Sometimes we're super grateful to be able to cross the street with someone's elbow. And sometimes we're OK with being able to be independent and want to be independent. Maybe we're trying to learn a new skill and we want to learn it on our own. Every individual is different, right, whether they're visually impaired or not, and I don't think you would know unless you ask, so I think it's perfectly fine to approach someone and ask them.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Yes, Christine. People, OK, so help is just one component of it. But when you meet people socially or at work, there must be questions which people are asking which are offensive. Could you share some of those questions with us?

CHRISTINE HA: Oh, well, I think, OK, this is kind of a mix of a question and a declaration, but I feel like one of the most offensive statements that I received before and this is actually happening when I was traveling through an airport and I was going through the checkpoint, the security checkpoint, and there was a fellow that was, you know, the TSA. And he and I had my cane and it was folded up and I was traveling by myself. And I, you know, I needed assistance to get through. And then he just was so shocked that I was traveling by myself being visually impaired. And he kept saying, you know, are you sure you're really blind? Like, you just look so normal.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Oh, gosh.

CHRISTINE HA: That is offensive because I'm like, what does normal mean? And you know, what makes you think a visually impaired person or person with any sort of ability or disability can't travel by themselves?

HARVINDER WADHWA: TSA is not a good example because they're all jerks, all of them.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: OK, we're here to dunk on the TSA. That's a new segment on the show.

HARVINDER WADHWA: I don't care. We’re not flying anymore anyways, right.? So they can’t do anything to me.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Hey, we're hoping to fly again!

HARVINDER WADHWA: So you mentioned people offer help to you for the most mundane tasks. Do you think people make some assumptions about visually impaired people on what they can and cannot do?

CHRISTINE HA: Yeah, definitely. I think people when you know, when I first started losing my vision, I lived alone. And I think people were extremely shocked to find that out. And they just didn't couldn't imagine. I don't know. People assume, you know, I can't feed myself like, you know, I can't find my mouth with my spoon or my fork because I'm visually impaired. But it's muscle memory.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

CHRISTINE HA: So I think people are just and I understand that people, you know, may not have experience with being around other visual impaired people. So they're just trying to learn and they're curious, which is OK. And in some ways, like they then they're like very admiring and they think it's amazing. And it feels kind of strange because for me, I'm just like, well, I just had to figure out a way. And I always try to turn it back to them and say like I'm not a superhuman being. Yeah, of course it’s hard but I just figured out a way to manage life with my vision impairment. And I figure I feel like if you were to lose your vision, you would be able to do the same.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right. Yeah, for sure. Going off of that, what was it like, Christine, to, you know, adapt, you know, from losing your sight and kind of learning how to to do, you know, your culinary stuff, but also your everyday tasks once you lost your vision?

CHRISTINE HA: Oh, it was definitely frustrating. Fortunately, there is a vocational rehabilitation agency in my state of Texas. That's how I learned to read Braille, how I learned to use a screen reader, how I learned to get around using a white cane, how I learned to use a public transportation system in Houston, which is not easy at all. And you know how to obtain audio books. And that was also how I got back into the kitchen was, you know, learning that there are certain tools out there that I could use or how to be extremely organized or mark my stove knobs so that I can tell what level heat I'm turning on, all these sorts of things I learned through this kind of agency. So this is a matter of seeking the resources out there and doing my research to find out where I can find resources to help me and then it’s being proactive to actually reaching out and doing your homework and actually practicing the everything that you're taught through these programs.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: I'm curious about these tools you mentioned, like in your kitchen today. Are there like adaptive tools that you use?

CHRISTINE HA: There are only a few. So I think my main adaptive tool that I use in the kitchen is just very simple. It's these little raised bumper stickers that you can just get online. And, you know, those are just to make things more tactile. So the way appliances are made nowadays, like everyone loves those like flat panel, light touch screen type.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Yeah.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

CHRISTINE HA: They look really sleek.. But it's like the bane of my existence as a voter person because I have no idea where the buttons are. And, you know, every appliance now does like 50 different things. And then, you know, I miss the days when there was just a toaster. You know, there are two slots. You put those slices of bread in and you push her down and then it pops up when it's done. But everything else is pretty, it looks pretty ordinary, like any other kitchen, except it is extremely organized. I've been a very organized person all my life. And so I was kind of made for this life of right. Yeah, but everything is just. Yeah, all my spices are alphabetized. Everything has a place in my kitchen, so I know exactly where everything is,

HARVINDER WADHWA: So, Christine. Are there any mundane tasks that you find them more difficult than the others, people with low vision?

CHRISTINE HA: Yeah, I would say putting on jewelry. So, like, I think putting your necklace clasp on or like just, you know, just certain things or when I get my jewelry tangled, that was a nightmare. I think I could do it. And I, I tried to be independent and I spent like two hours trying to untangle like some necklaces. I ended up making it worse. And my husband had to spend also an hour trying to untangle my necklace.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Oh no!

CHRISTINE HA: So we said next time, like, he's like, just keep your necklaces apart. Don't ever get entangled again, you know, things like that. And then just like doing laundry, like trying to pair your socks to the right sock or an ironing, like I don't always know when I iron it, you know, my clothes have gotten all the wrinkles out. So those are some mundane tasks that I would say are difficult.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So so, Christine, I'm just the opposite of you. If I can even do the stuff and somebody is willing to do it for me, I said, why not? But was it very hard for you to ask for help, particularly in the beginning?

CHRISTINE HA: Yeah, I'm very stubborn and I grew up very, very independent. So I think actually I think it's kind of a funny thing that my life had it that where I lost my vision because it really taught me how to ask for help and be more dependent. And I think because before I always wanted to be in control, I never wanted to ask for help. I wanted to do everything myself. And that in itself would add on an unnecessary stress onto the way I lived.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

CHRISTINE HA: And so I think after I lost my vision, yes, I went through this initial period where it is very stressful because I'm adjusting to a completely different life. But then it taught me like, hey, it's OK to ask for help. And I think because I was so appreciative of people who are willing to help me, whether it was take me to my doctor's appointments or help me read my mail or bring me food or whatever, I was so appreciative of that I you know, I realize that people really want to help people who appreciate their help. So in a way, it was kind of nice. And I learned to, yeah, just now, I'm not afraid to ask for help. Now it's almost more liberating to use my cane. I used to hide it when I was in grad school because I didn't like to look different. And then I would try to find the restroom and I would always walk into the wrong like the men's restroom instead of the women's restroom, which is why I'm an advocate like, I very much wish we had, like, gender neutral bathrooms.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yes, yes, yes.

CHRISTINE HA: But yeah, it was things like that. And I would be ashamed and always hiding my, you know, my disability. And then now I find that it's more, being on MasterChef actually forced me to not embrace, I would say, but kind of like forced myself to go public about my disability because now all of a sudden I was on national television and everybody knows I have this vision impairment. It was liberating because now people know and they won't assume like, oh, why did you trip over that? It's not because she's drunk at 10:00 in the morning. You know, maybe I didn't see it. So I find that using my cane or being on TV and now everyone knows my story was actually very freeing to let people know that, hey, I do have this disability, it's a part of me. And this is why maybe I, you know, do things the way I do.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So, Christine, we have touched upon it, but I want to ask it directly. Is the question, “Do you need help?” an inappropriate question?

CHRISTINE HA: I actually don't think that's an inappropriate question. I I think it's just a matter of treating other people with courtesy. But yet keep in mind that we also want to be treated with dignity. And that goes for everybody.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Absolutely.

CHRISTINE HA: You know, like it is hard for someone to admit that they need help, I think. But sometimes when it's obvious, you know, we can't hide our blindness or vision impairment if I'm, you know, walking with a cane or whatever, of course, it's going to be obvious. But it's you know, I think it's a matter of treating me still like a human being that may need help. But just remember to ask it and, you know, realize that I want to be treated with dignity as well.

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HARVINDER WADHWA: Here's a voice note from sisters Emilee and Hannah Schevers.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Emily is 19 and was born with dystrophy. She's legally blind and has no color vision. Hannah is 16 and has Goldenhar syndrome, which resulted in her not having vision or hearing in her right side.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Here's Emily with some thoughts on the assumptions behind this question.

EMILEE SCHEVERS: It can be really annoying when people assume that you need help because you may look disabled in some way. So I can be walking down the street using my white cane and automatically somebody assumes, oh, she can't see and she's walking up to a door. She must need help. I've had several times where somebody has just kind of gone up and done it. And the same thing with, like, moving obstacles out of the way, which can be helpful. But in reality, I'm actually fully capable of finding and opening a door by myself. And the truth is, is that chances are I've actually walked that route before and learned it specifically to do it on my own and had the help through orientation and mobility to do it on my own. So assuming that I need help is essentially taking away my independence and that ability to do things for myself.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Hannah shares what it's like to be blind as a young person.

HANNAH SCHEVERS: You know, when people think of blindness, they often think that it's associated with older people because, you know, it's just the stereotype that people have where older people lose their vision and younger people don't. And I think that a lot of resources created for blind and visually impaired people are often focused on older people. Emilee and I always say that there was no there's nobody in our community our age with any visual impairment like everyone that we know with visual impairment is an adult or, you know, a senior citizen. And I think that that just that makes us maybe feel a little more isolated because, you know, we want to hang out as kids. We want to hang out with other kids our age. But we also want to do it in an accessible space, which is often provided from associations like CNIB that are focused towards older people.

HARVINDER WADHWA: The sisters have some advice on offering help to someone who's blind.

EMILEE SCHEVERS: Some really important things when assisting somebody who is blind or low vision in a day to day setting is A) introducing yourself saying like, “hey, my name is this. Can I help you or would you like me to do this?” As well as like making sure that you address them. They can also be maybe with someone instead of asking the other person, oh, do they need help or do they need this asking the person directly saying, do you need help? Can I assist you?

HANNAH SCHEVERS: Yeah. And I think it's also great to offer help to like it always just brightens my day when somebody is like, you know, just let me know if you need help like it. It kind of establishes that kind of personal connection, in my opinion. And, you know, it lets them know that you're there and that but it still gives you the opportunity to self advocate for yourself if you do need help.

[Music]

HARVINDER WADHWA: Elena, I would like to zoom out a little. We heard a little bit about the challenges that blind people face, right from taking transit to navigating the kitchen. How can we make the world a better place for people who are visually impaired?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: You're in luck. Our next guest has both personal and professional experience with this question this episode. And he also knows a lot about accessibility. It’s his job.

HARVINDER WADHWA: See, I knew if I asked the question, you will have a guest for it, so there we go.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: You are a genius.

MAHADEO SUKHAI: My name is Dr. Mahadeo Sukhai. I am currently CNIB’s Director of Research and Chief Inclusion & Accessibility Officer. And that’s CNIB Canadian National Institute for the Blind, not CIBC or CNIBC or—

HARVINDER WADHWA: Or CBC!

MAHADEO SUKHAI: Or CBC for that matter, exactly.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: He was born with congenital cataracts and is legally blind. He's a scientist and researcher who is the world's first congenitally blind geneticist. Mahadeo, do you have a story about getting this question, do you need help?

MAHADEO SUKHAI: Do you need help? Is a question that I will say yes to sometimes and I will say no to other times. And if you ask me why and how and when and where and who and, you know, five W's and the one H, I will tell you that it absolutely depends on the circumstance. I'll tell you the story of the airport and what happens when somebody says, “Do you need help?” in the airport. So I suck at low contrast settings and I'm not great in unfamiliar places. Airports are both of those things, right? The amount of uniform grey that you find in the Canadian airport is staggering.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

MAHADEO SUKHAI: And so everything looks the same. And it's easier then for me to kind of throw myself on the mercy of the airport staff and say, here I am, here is my ID. And I will actually submit to the question, “do you need help?” Now, the fun thing is the question really becomes what kind of help I need. And the help I need is typically somebody who can tell me where I am and how to get from point A to point B. And so what I usually ask for in an airport is a sighted guide. The number of times that I have been asked to stuff myself in a wheelchair is actually quite shocking. I had somebody say to me, we cannot help you unless you sit in that chair.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Oh my god.

MAHADEO SUKHAI: And I said, but I don't need to sit in the chair. Oh, my God. And they said, we cannot help you if you don't sit in that chair. And I said, why not? And they said, well, those are the rules. If you're disabled, you must need a wheelchair. And I said, I got in which country is that possibly the case? And they said in this one. So I wasted five minutes arguing with the person. And then finally I was like, OK, fine, you know what? I don't know where the hell I am in this airport. I'm going to miss my flight if I don't sit in the chair.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Right.

MAHADEO SUKHAI: And so I sat in the chair. So the ignominy of having to accept that kind of help was very, very, very distressing. And I was not at all comfortable with that experience from start to finish. So that was sort of one time where somebody said, do you need help? And I was like, oh yes, I do, but not this way.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Mahadeo, I am a bit intrigued as to you being an academic.

MAHADEO SUKHAI: Intrigued? You don't think I can be an academic?

HARVINDER WADHWA: No, no, no, no, no.

MAHADEO SUKHAI: OK, alright. There we go, though.

HARVINDER WADHWA: The question is, there are tons—

MAHADEO SUKHAI: Them's fighting words, Harvinder.

HARVINDER WADHWA: OK, I'm supposed to be the funny guy here.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Got competition!

MAHADEO SUKHAI: I apologize. I retract my humor. I'll be all Vulcan on you now. Vulcan's don't jokes.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Please. Please don't.

HARVINDER WADHWA: You have to read tons and tons of research papers and they A) even people who have perfect eyesight, they find it hard.

MAHADEO SUKHAI: Oh they're crap. Let's, let's just be, let's be honest. They're not good, right?

HARVINDER WADHWA: So, so Mahadeo, my question is that you being in academia, did you need to ask for any kind of accommodation?

MAHADEO SUKHAI: So so when I, when I started my PhD, my PhD supervisor, she looked at my transcripts, she looked at my record. She was like, OK, you're going to do well in graduate school. I can tell. But then she actually said “so what do you need? How can I help you make this a success?” And the funny thing is that nobody had actually asked me that question in quite that way before. I think a lot of people are well-intentioned. A lot of people don't take the time to actually say not only do you need help, but what kind of help do you need? Because you see, that's a better question than “Do you need help?” “Do you need help?” is a binary question, yes or no. But if you're actually asking how do you need help, then somebody has the opportunity to actually talk to you about what they might actually need. So then with my PhD supervisor, when she said, how can I help you? I was actually able to say, well, you can help me in the following ways because you've asked a legitimate question. I've thought about this. I have some experience. I can offer you a legitimate answer. During my master's, I generally figured out that I did need help at the bench, in the lab, that's what we call it at the bench. Right. I knew what I could do. I knew what I couldn't do. I knew the techniques that I could do well. I knew the techniques that I needed help with. I knew the techniques that somebody actually had to do for me. And that was such a constructive “what kind of help do you need” conversation.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: I love that your supervisor asked you just what kind of help you need. That's great. Kind of going off of the theme of help. What do you think as a society on a broader scale we can be doing to help make the world better or more accessible?

MAHADEO SUKHAI: You know, the interesting thing about the question, “Do you need help?” you could actually eliminate the need for that question completely. If things were designed with that perspective of, you know, can everybody use this in mind? A lot of this stuff is just not thought about from the perspective of what is accessible to me as a person who might see things differently than you as another person, right? People who design something are really designing it for them.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

MAHADEO SUKHAI: Everybody does this. There's no crime in doing it. But, you know, you're designing stuff that, you know, you're going to be able to use. And so what happens if you actually had somebody doing the designing who lived with a visual impairment, who lives a sight loss or who was deaf and hard of hearing or who was in a wheelchair or who had dexterity issues in their hands or who was neurodiverse, then the world would feel a lot different. It would be experienced a lot different. And maybe then the need for the question, “Do you need help?” goes away for a bit. It's minimized, right. Because right now, “Do you need help?” is the world's answer to well, we didn't build it for everybody and so we're going to retrofit it for the people who need it retrofitted for.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Right. Right.

MAHADEO SUKHAI: And so what I argue for in the research that I do now and in the work that I do within CNIB is that kind of solution, what's called universal design. It’s the environmental solution that negates the need for the question as opposed to the OK, I'm actually just going to hang a solution on the end of this thing and everyone just has to deal with the question, “Do you need help?”

HARVINDER WADHWA: Very interesting. So my question is for ordinary folks, like me, who are not designing buildings, how can we make the world a better place for people who are visually impaired?

MAHADEO SUKHAI: It comes down to something that is absolutely trivial but very difficult to do in execution. Don't make assumptions. Never assume. I think before you jump straight into the the presupposition about strike up a conversation, I mean, if, for example, I'm standing on the curb casting about like I'm lost and unsure of myself, why don't you just come over and say, “hi, how are you? You look a little bit lost. Is everything OK? Are you waiting for somebody you know or are you looking for the bus? What's going on?” As opposed to “you need help, don't you? What kind of help do you need?”, right? The longer term thing is not only don't assume, but let's build environmental solutions, right. Environmental solutions are always better than the “Do you need help?” solutions. Right. Because the “Do you need help?” we think it's OK but the problem is that it means I'm suddenly dependent upon somebody or something. And I will tell you right now, there's very few people in this world I wish to be dependent upon. And perfect strangers are not high on that list.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Of course, very fair.

MAHADEO SUKHAI: And it would be much better if we actually started to ask ourselves the question, if I had to build environmental solutions in whatever sphere of influence I have, what would that look like? Then the question isn't what do I have to do to the building to make this accessible, but it becomes what do I have to do to my thought process to make this accessible.

[Music]

HARVINDER WADHWA: So, Elena, a unique episode where we found an appropriate question.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yay! I found this episode really interesting, in particular the part about how this question isn't necessarily bad. It's just something that is a sign of a world not being super accessible for blind folks. That maybe we wouldn't need this question or need it so much if our world was more accessibly designed.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Yeah, but Elena the world is never going to be perfect.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Fair enough.

HARVINDER WADHWA: The good thing we learned about it is how to handle it. Let's be more specific. Do you need help in crossing the road?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Or are you looking for a direction? If the person says yes or no, then take it from there accordingly.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah, it was good to get some ideas of how to do that more politely, just to make sure that you're being kind, striking up a conversation with them first, not dragging someone across the street.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Yes. Yes.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: I thought those are some good takeaways.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Yes. But Elena, let's try to look for more episodes with appropriate questions simply because it is way easier for me to say appropriate than to inappropriate.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: We've been making this show for how many years and you haven't said like, hey, this title, guys! So before we go, we actually have a fun additional segment. Usually our episodes come with a webcomic, as you might have heard if you are a religious listener to our credits. But we're changing things up this week. Amy Amantea is an artist and disability advocate who lives with sight loss, and she wrote us a really cool slam poetry piece about what it's like for her to get inappropriate questions. Take a listen.

[Music]

AMY AMANTEA:

Inappropriate Questions:

There is a natural curiosity among human beings.

We all have feelings, we are all forseeing a future of meaning.

I live with disability, not fragility but I often experience a state of hostility from the outside world—when all I seek is tranquility.

You have questions, I get it. You see my life as a curiosity, perhaps a monstrosity or even an atrocity.

So you ask your questions with the velocity of a torpedo...rapid fire...one after another...expecting the generosity of my reciprocity

But what if your questions are NOT YOURS to ASK?

And what if they are not my obligation to share...and still you dare?

Why are you blind, if you don't mind me asking?

What is that stick you hold, what is your story untold?

Yes, I am looking for the details to unfold.

In an awkward moment, I freeze.

This question is not a breeze, but I have been asked seemingly a thousand times, even in this just one day.

So I say. This is an inappropriate question to be asked.

You are not my friend or my family or my therapist or my doctor or my pastor. You are a stranger I am meeting on the bus.

What's my fuss? I know you want to discuss, but the question is superfluous.

You are shocked at my response. Disabled folk are supposed to be nice and happy, not rude and snappy.

You wanted to hear my whole tale as if my story was for sale, the currency being your interest.

I see your fear. You don't want to end up like me because all you see is broken and unhappy and disparity.

But I love my life, even though there's strife—your perceptions cut me like a knife!

There are more moments of beauty than of grief. What a relief! I can do anything you can do, just different—but I bet that you are ignorant to that idea.

In your mind, I have it so bad that you feel grateful for what you have—the idea of inspiration porn is alive and well—what the hell!

If I were the kind of person to dwell, I might have to ring that bell—I'm out! I'm out of this life!

But not me, I am free to be who I am and to take your inappropriate questions on the chin.

So the next time you feel the slightest intention to ask your questions, even with the best of intentions—remember that my story is not yours to know.

You are a stranger and your questions can cause me danger—I'm as vulnerable as a babe in a manger. So be wise and just say "Hello."

I'm no different than any other person that is for certain. And our exchange can be pleasant and light hearted and not triggering, leaving me feeling like I'm less than a human being.

[Theme]

HARVINDER WADHWA: I’m Harvinder Wadhwa.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: And I’m Elena Hudgins Lyle.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Thanks for getting inappropriate for us.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: A huge thanks to our guests Christine Ha and Mahadeo Sukhai. You also heard voicenotes from Emilee and Hannah Schevers.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Thanks again to Amy Amantea for the great piece of slam poetry. You can find it on our social media @IQ_Podcast. Also, make sure to visit cbc.ca/iqpodcast for a full transcript of this episode.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: The busy bunch behind this podcast are Sabrina Bertsch, Cindy Long and myself. The show is mixed by Andrew Norton. Our chase producer is Sarah Melton and our digital producer is Judy Ziyi Gu. Our senior producer is Geoff Turner and our executive producer is Arif Noorani.

[Theme out]

HARVINDER WADHWA: An inappropriate question is like picking the hardest word to spell and pronounce as the title of your podcast.

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Transcript: Inappropriate Questions - Season 3, Episode 11

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