Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact CBC for permission. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting in print. Copyright © CBC 2021

The AIH Transcript For September 13, 2021

[hosts]Carol Off, Chris Howden[/hosts]

CAROL OFF: Hello, I'm Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[music: theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

CO: Losing his patients. There were anti-vaccine demonstrations at hospitals across the country today. But tonight, one Toronto doctor tells us why he stepped outside to confront the protesters.

CH: A touching return to touching. A virologist in Denmark tells us hugging, kissing and mask-free living are back in his country -- thanks to one of the most successful vaccine programs in Europe.

CO: The leader of the pachyderms. A company led by a renowned geneticist, unveils a plan to fight climate change by engineering the extinction of woolly mammoths.

CH: Yacht pursuit. To his surprise, a Halifax man finds out that his sailboat isn't tied up down at the club -- because it was stolen and sailed into a hurricane.

CO: Mass appeal. At the age of 107, the late Nancy Stewart won friends and fans online during the pandemic for her social media presence -- and for attending virtual mass and all of Ireland's counties.

CH: And... cavities search. Police in Lincolnshire, England are looking for some thieves who nabbed 44,000 dollars worth of dental hygiene products, including hundreds of bottles of mouthwash, and managed to make an extremely clean getaway.

CH: “As it happens”, the Monday edition. Radio that finds them guilty of embezzle-mint.

[music: theme]

Part 1

Toronto Doctor

Guest: Raghu Venugopal

CH: In downtown Toronto today, police lined up outside a hospital to protect it from people protesting against vaccines and vaccine mandates. Similar protests also happened in cities across the country. They were organized by a group that calls itself Canadian Frontline Nurses. They were billed as a silent vigils. But they weren't. Some yelled that there is no pandemic -- and one protester told a reporter, "You guys are going to have rocks thrown at you next." The protests have prompted healthcare workers and politicians to call for laws that would stop demonstrators from being able to get close to hospitals. Raghu Venugopal is a Toronto Emergency department doctor who stood across from the protesters in full scrubs, holding a sign reading "Protect Hospitals". We reached him in Toronto.

CO: Dr. Venugopal, why did you decide to stand outside alone and face down these protestors today?

RAGHU VENUGOPAL: Carol, hospitals are places where people who are injured and who are sick come for care, come for compassion, come for respect. I honestly thought that to protest at a particular hospital in Toronto today was a... honestly, a defilement of very sacred ground for many patients and for many families and many staff who work and get treated there.

CO: I'm seeing a picture of you. There's a photograph of you standing alone in front of Toronto General Hospital, and with this very simple handmade sign, "Protect Hospitals". What kind of reaction did you get from people?

RV: There were a lot of patients and staff who said, honestly, thank you. And most of the protesters were very friendly. And it got quite heated, though. And I had to step behind the police line because at some point, I really started getting scared.

CO: Why? What happened?

RV: It's the jeers. It's the nasty tone in the voice. It's when you're the only one standing in a uniform, and there are a lot of people quite hostile around you. People said things like, you're a doctor, tell the truth. And I wasn't trying to hide my identity, and I was trying to hide that I worked there. But the reality is, is that, you know, regardless of whether people are vaccinated or are against mandates or are for them, you know, when they're a patient, honestly, we treat them with respect and dignity and compassion. And I think for the nurses and doctors and respiratory therapists and cleaners who work in our hospital, we ask the public to treat us with dignity and respect as well. In particular, I just want to signal a group that suffered the most during the pandemic, which is registered nurses. And I think this is particularly abominable by protesters to do this when nurses are leaving acute care hospitals in droves because the working condition is simply too much for them.

CO: And yet, the group, it seems, that calls itself Canadian Frontline Nurses seems to be the one behind organized protests and these kinds of demonstrations in cities across the country. What do you say to them?

RV: First of all, these are not practising nurses, and these are not practising health care professionals. And I think if you meet any nurses or doctors who actually see patients, who actually take care of COVID patients, they would say get vaccinated. And if you're not sure about getting vaccinated, ask your doctor for more information. People have a right to protest, but these laws of the land are not written behind the hospital walls. The laws of the land are written by our governments, in our municipal governments and in our federal governments. In Toronto, for example, at Queen's Park. And I would respectfully ask protesters to go there. But let me be clear, Carol, that honestly, the vast majority of people I meet, which is in the emergency room, are patient, are supportive of vaccine mandates, are understanding of the science, are asking good questions, and know how to make good decisions. And I honestly think that the protesters that we're seeing today and across the country are a tiny minority of Canadians.

CO: But why confront them at all? Online, on Twitter today and these past days, the people who were in these protests, who say they're part of them, are not just saying that this is... they're against vaccines. They're threatening violence in some cases, that they're… that some of these protesters, if you can follow what they're saying on Twitter, have violent intentions. And so why did you go out to confront them?

RV: The hospital chosen in Toronto is a very special place, where some of the best medicine and science in this country is done. And it disgusted me to no end that they would target that particular hospital, where I know such good cancer care and transplant care and medical and surgical care is done. And I thought the best way to express my opinion would be to very respectfully hold a sign saying we need to protect hospitals. And we have a legislative record in this country and in our municipalities of protecting health care sites. And what I think our municipal leaders and solicitor generals in each province need to do is to look at the laws so that in the future, harassment, intimidation, physical assault, psychological assault of health care workers, patients, and families is no longer tolerable. And I think the majority of Canadians would feel that's reasonable.

CO: And not just reasonable. But the question is, is that why do you have to go out and make this point and stand out there? You have enough to do in your job and your jobs because you work in more than one. You mentioned the legislatures and their responsibilities. The provinces, including Ontario, where you work, they can pass injunction laws, can't they? I mean, they... they can do something about this. What do you make of the fact that they're not?

RV: The people in the hospital are not of any political stripe. And what we have to ask honestly is why is the mayor of Toronto and why is the premier of Ontario acting so slowly? We know clearly that First Nations and indigenous communities, when they have protested, they have been met by police violence. And the very tepid response by authorities and politicians to this particular group speaks volumes that I don't need to further, you know, articulate. But really, what we need is protection of patients and families and decency around health care institutions. And that's a very simple ask. And I think, again, most people would be in favour of that.

CO: Dr. Venugopal, thank you for speaking with us on what I know has been a very busy day for you. And... and please stay safe.

RV: I appreciate your time.

CO: Take care. Bye-bye.

RV: Bye-bye.

CH: Raghu Venugopal is a Toronto Emerg doctor. You can find more on this story on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: indie rock]

Stolen Yacht

Guest: Graham Collins

CH: Graham Collins' sailboat is named "Secret Plans". And the Halifax man could never have imagined how appropriate that name would turn out to be. On Friday, he got a call from the coast guard, with the news that his yacht was far from home, with a mystery captain, and would probably never been seen again. We reached Graham Collins in Halifax.

CO: Graham, can we go back to Friday and can you tell us about this call that you got from the Canadian Coast Guard? What did they say to you?

GRAHAM COLLINS: So they called and told me that the emergency locator beacon on my boat had been activated, and they wanted to know if it was an actual distress call? You know, if it was a false alarm or if something was, you know, going badly? My response was that it must be some kind of a glitch because, as far as I knew, the boat was, you know, safely tied up down at the Armdale.

CO: So you're... as far as you knew, your boat called the "Secret Plans" was tied up. What did... how did you check out [chuckle] and see whether that was true or not?

GC: So my wife went down to check on the boat and called me rather upset to tell me that the boat was, in fact, gone.

CO: What did the Coast Guard say? The locator beacon was activated. And where did they say the boat seemed to be?

GC: So the... the beacon was broadcasting from in the middle of Hurricane Larry, which at that point in time was about 300 miles off the coast of Nova Scotia.

CO: What was your reaction when you realized that your boat was in Hurricane Larry with somebody else on it?

GC: Shocked, you know, angry that the boat had been taken, concerned that, you know, I shouldn't sure as heck would not want to be in... in a hurricane. I have faith in my boat, [chuckle] but I would not want to be in a hurricane in it.

CO So the Coast Guard and the RCMP have a pretty good idea who stole your boat. Can you tell us about that?

GC: Yeah, there's... there's an escaped gentleman who is from the Caribbean and had arrived here recently on a sailboat that was carrying a whole lot of cocaine, I think. And he managed to escape custody. And so, you know, I think it's... it's not a huge leap of logic to think that he might be highly motivated to jump in a sailboat and try and get back home because it would be within his capabilities.

CO: This is... this is Karin Marley Simons. And the RCMP actually put out an alert some… well, at the end of August, that this... he had escaped from custody in Dartmouth General Hospital. But the boat, the cocaine was seized was actually... it was... it was burning off the coast of Nova Scotia. It was on fire when they... when they apprehended it, right?

GM: Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like quite the production.

CO: And so were you familiar about the story of the burning cocaine boat and that this man was... had escaped?

GM: I think I heard the news about the... the arrest, but no, I wasn't really aware that he had escaped. And, you know, it's actually a little perturbing that, you know, at no point were the yacht clubs alerted to this individual. Because, you know, to me, it doesn't seem like that great a leap of logic to think that he might try and steal a boat.

CO: This locator beacon that they picked up. This is something... it does... it has to be... has to be activated, right?

GM: Yes. The particular type of beacon that was on my boat is a manually activated beacon where you have to unfold an antenna, and then you have to simultaneously press two buttons on it.

CO: What does that say to you that the person who stole your boat was actually in so much trouble that he would activate that beacon?

GM: Yeah, they'd have to be pretty desperate to... to decide that it would be better to be rescued and arrested versus, you know, carrying on, trying to get away.

CO: But the search was facing some pretty harsh conditions, right? On some pretty big seas and high winds.

GM: Yeah. Yeah, it was... yeah, the tail end of the hurricane on Friday. So there's not a whole lot you can do. You know, I'm surprised they put an airplane out there, but yeah, they're brave individuals.

CO: So what went through your mind when you realized that the man in your boat was in this hurricane and possibly didn't survive?

GM: Yeah, it's... I mean, it's sad. You know, it's... it's a weird feeling to think that, yeah, somebody was... was out there in, you know, in my boat, you know, probably using my, you know, foul weather gear and all the tools that... that I had left available to him and fighting for his life. So, yeah, it's an odd feeling.

CO: Any possibility that... that you'll get to know what happened? Is there any possibility that you'll ever get the rest of the story?

GM: I strongly doubt it. I think it would be a miracle to find out anything, really. Yeah, I think this is just going to be one of these mysteries the sea takes with it.

CO: And what do you... would you imagine what this person was going through, what it was like to be in that boat in this hurricane?

GM: I think it would be terrifying. The reports were waves from 25 to 50 feet high. Which in a 35-foot boat would be quite something. I would be terrified, as would most people, I think would be terrified.

CO: Do you think you'll get a new boat?

GM: Absolutely!

CO: You love boating, I presume?

GM: Yes. Yeah. And it's so I mean, it… so, this particular boat has been in our family for 15 years. And, you know, in that time, I put a lot of work into personally rebuilding things. You know, I couldn't even begin to count the hours. And then it also has all the memories, you know, sailing with my family and with my friends and, you know, my son learning how to sail, that sort of thing. So, you know, that's, I don't think something you give up easily. So, we'll... we'll start over again. I mean, at the end of the day, I think the tragedy is that somebody lost their life. The boat is a material possession. And, you know, yes, I'm really sad to lose it, but that's, I think, secondary.

CO: Well, Graham, it's an extraordinary story, and I appreciate that you would tell it to us. Thank you.

GM: Well, good to talk to.

CO: Bye-bye.

GM: All right. Bye-bye.

CH: We reached Graham Collins in Halifax.

[music: indie rock]

Nancy Stewart Obit

Guest: Louise Coughlan

CH: When the pandemic started in March 2020, Nancy Stewart was 106. So she went into lockdown. But that didn't stop her from hopping online, and bringing some levity to people during a dark time. Along with her granddaughter, who had moved in with her, Ms. Stewart made videos and posted them throughout the pandemic -- earning her a following at home in Ireland and across the world. She also used technology to do something she loved: she attended virtual mass in all of the island's 32 counties during the pandemic -- and also took trips via her computer to attend mass in places including Rome, New York, and London. Nancy Stewart died last week at the age of 107. The Irish Independent said she was "Ireland's oldest woman still living in her own home." We reached her granddaughter, Louise Coughlan, in Clonard, Ireland.

CO: Louise, first of all, I'm so sorry for the loss of your grandmother.

LOUISE COUGHLAN: Thanks very much, Carol.

CO: As you know, there were tens of thousands of people who tuned in for her funeral online this weekend. So she had this very large virtual family, didn't she?

LC: It's just... it's overwhelming, to be honest, Carol. You know, it's amazing, you know, and inspiring that one person can have such great impact on so many people and draw them in as well, you know, to follow us and find us and then to find the funeral and actually watch it. You know, there's no words for what that means to me personally. And I'm sure to Granny as well.

CO: [chuckling] How did she develop such a following?

LC: I know! Well, I suppose it's been going on for a few years in the sense that she's reached, you know, 105, 106. But once COVID hit and I started cocooning with Granny, we intensely were locked in like it was all over the world. We kind of were looking at each other, Carol, and thinking, what are we going to do with all this time? And we have no one; both of us love people. So I suppose we went... I was thinking of, you know, she's very chatty, she's very social. I'm chatty and social, too, and I do love social media. So it kind of turned that way to try to reach out to people because we knew everyone was kind of struggling at the same time. So from there, people just started to engage and communicate with us, and there was no stopping us then, Carol. You know, we were flat out. [laughing]

CO: Well, you made... you and your grandmother, you made baking videos. [laughing] She... she pleaded with people to wash their hands. Don't panic buy. Don't buy all that toilet paper. She even made a video asking the president of Ireland to give her a call. I want people to have a listen. Just, I mean, there's so many things we could play, but this is Nancy Stewart talking to the president.

SOUNDCLIP

NANCY STEWART: Hello, President Michael Higgins. I'm Nancy Stewart from Clonard. And I'm a 106-year-old. And I'd love to have a word with you to tell you how we're working out with this virus. We're doing everything we're told so far, hoping we'll all meet in the near future for a chat, or to look... or to see what I look like. I'm as handsome as the [hard to make out]. Goodbye, President of Ireland, and I hear from you soon. Please, God.

CO: [laughing] That is so lovely to hear.

LC: Yeah. Oh God, it's... it's overwhelming for me, obviously. It triggers all my fibres of my heart. But yeah, that was the kind of messing we were up to. We actually, Carol, very funnily, I don't know if you know the TV show "The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills"? There's that TV show, and there's all the housewives. And we made a video for them, you know? So, Granny said she was a real housewife of Ireland. Oh my God, it was so funny! [Carol laughs] So she spoke to all the housewives. You can sense the kind of messing the two of us got up. So anything that we could think of. And she was like, yeah, when I dress up, what you need me to wear? So, it was... it was a very much a stage production, but it was pure devilment and mess, and I bit of hope and laughter threw in for good mix, you know?

CO: She was also a woman of faith, wasn't she? Her religion was very important to her. And you came up with this idea that she should attend mass in all of Ireland's counties, but not in person. Can you tell us about that project?

LC: That originated before Christmas. We were going to do an advent tour. You know, Granny was missing mass desperately. Her rosary beads were everything to her. So she got sick before Christmas. So that didn't happen. So after Christmas, we decided, right, we're going to get on the road! And when we were picking masses up to that point before I started the virtual tour, you know, I'd say to her what county do you want to pick today? And I'd name five counties, and she'd say, yeah. So we virtually met in terms of how we're doing this anyway. So then we decided we let it out that we were doing this virtual tour. And it was amazing, Carol. The amount of people that came towards us to say come to my mass, come to my mass. This... I rang the parish priest; he's going to talk about her at this day. Can you come to mass on this day? It was a great way to meet loads of people. We kept laughing because we were just sitting in the armchair in front of the stove, you know, with the computer up and the headphones on. And she loved every second of it. [CO chuckles] She embraced it so much because every mass we watched, she was in it, right? Like, the priest would say, good morning, everyone. And Granny would be like, good morning, Father. [CO chuckles] Like, it's just the cutest thing ever.

CO: She was born in 1913. And so what a history her life covered, right? I mean, this is before Irish independence that she was born. She... she lived through both wars, all kinds of grief, all kinds of troubles, as you know.

LC: Yeah.

CO: What advice did she have for people going through this pandemic?

LC: She used to always say apply the same mentality all through your life. If something hard happens, happens, just hold your ground, wait, bow your head, say a prayer, and hold on. Tough times have passed in every sense of the word for her, whether it was poverty or, you know, as you said, wars and everything else, you know, especially like she lost her husband through a car accident when she was going to mass, which always inspired me because she was going to mass when she lost him. And still, she remained so faithful to it. She lost her twin daughters, again, another huge heartbreak. And you just say to yourself, you know, you'd never want to lose your kids. But she kept going. And that was the thing, you know, keep your faith. She'd say in the sense of if today is bad, tomorrow hopefully will be better. And you would always talk to someone if you're feeling down, reach out.

CO: But all these people from around the world, including Canada, are connecting with her, and she's inspiring them. But for you, you were the one who could sit and have a cup of tea with her. I mean, this loss must be tremendous for you?

LC: Yeah, it's beyond words, you know? Every night, I said goodnight to my grandmother. And in the morning, I said good morning. And then we spent every minute together. So it's... it's beyond my own words. You know, if I could say that she was, you know, two halves of my heart. She took it all with her when she went yesterday. But I know she's in me. So I just have to… I'm... I'm doing OK. But a love is a wonderful thing. And when I took on mine with Granny, I knew it was short. It was going to be short, limited. But I started staying with her when she was 105. So I didn't know I was going to get this long. So it was gifted to me that I got longer. But she was... she was miraculous. She was a living saint that I was spending time with. So I know, I was like gosh, I was blessed.

CO: Louise, as anybody listening to you speak would say that the spirit of Nancy Stewart is definitely in you. [laughing] I think you're carrying on what she brought to so many people. We can hear from you as well. And I truly appreciate you telling us about that wonderful grandmother of yours. Thank you.

LC: Oh, thank you so much. You know, I suggested at the funeral it was a really sad occasion for me personally to lose my... my... my purpose in life at the moment. But a very happy occasion and very proud occasion to have lived with someone who could inspire so many people to be good. To be good is a great thing in this world.

CO: All right. Louise, you are an inspiration as well. And I appreciate so much speaking with you. Thank you.

LC: Thanks a million, Carol. Mind yourself.

CO: [laughing] You too. Thank you. [both laughing]

LC: Bye, Carol.

CO: Bye, Louise. [chuckling] Take care.

LC: When I hang up, I will.

CO: Yes, you hang up now! We have to hang up. We have to go. [both laugh] But it's been just lovely speaking.

LC: Carol, if I ever come to Canada, you make me a cup of tea, won't ya?

CO: [laughing] I will make you a cup of tea. Maybe something stronger as well. [laughing]

LC: I look forward to it. If you come to Ireland, I'll make you something stronger, promise!

CO: All right. I'm going to hold you to that.

LC: Thanks, Carol. I promise you. Thanks a million. Take care. Bye-bye [CO chuckles]

CH: Louise Coughlan's grandmother, Nancy Stewart, died last week. She was 107. We reached Ms. Coughlan in Clonard, Ireland. And we've posted some pictures of the two of them to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: world music]

SOD: Football Cat

CH: When fans crowd into a football stadium, they expect a spectacle. But they expect it from the athletes playing on the field -- not from a cat falling from the sky. In the middle of Friday's college football game between the University of Miami and Appalachian State University, a stowaway cat found itself dangling precariously from a ledge in the stadium. Fans gasped and screamed as one man tried unsuccessfully to reach out and save it from falling. With only seconds to spare, quick-thinking season-ticket holders Craig and Kimberly Cromer -- who were sitting below -- unhooked the American flag they take to every game and used it to catch the falling feline.

SOUNDCLIP

[fans cheering while other shout in horror]

MAN: Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god!

[the cheering turns happier, an announcer talks, which is indiscernible]

CH: That was the harrowing moment a wayward cat was saved from certain doom by the American flag. The cat is fine, and no one was injured -- although some beer may have been spilled. After the game, Miami coach Manny Diaz said, "I'll tell you, if the cat will help us in our red-zone offense, I'm going to see if we can give it a scholarship."

[music: 70s pop beat]

Part 2

Denmark Vaccine Success

Guest: Anders Fomsgaard

CH: All over the world, the pandemic has introduced what's frequently referred to as a "new normal". But in Denmark today, people are getting used to a new new normal -- which is, for the first time in a long time, very close to the old normal. On Friday, the Danish government lifted all domestic COVID restrictions. More than 70 per cent of the population is now fully vaccinated. So government officials say COVID no longer poses a critical risk.

CO: Dr. Fomsgaard, if you went on a stroll through your city, Copenhagen, what would you see? How close is... is it to seeing life back to what it was before the pandemic?

ANDERS FOMSGAARD: It's pretty much back to normal, I would say. Nobody's wearing any mouth protections. We don't have to keep distanced. We can have big events. In the weekend here, there was a big rock concert with 50,000 participants watching The Minds of 99, [chuckling] a rock group. So we only have to wear protection in the airport while travelling. Other than that, we don't have to.

CO: People listening to this are wondering what's that like to be able to live [chuckling] like that again?

AF: Oh! Yeah, well, I guess as long as we keep inside Denmark, [chuckling] it's OK. You can enter all restaurants and bars and all events after the government here on Friday said that this disease is no longer of concern. And that technically is lifting all restrictions. So it's not like people are behaving very much different, I think. Actually, [chuckle] it's so... it's so normal to kind of keep distance and to take care and to clean your hands with disinfectant in shops. And most shops like to have healthy customers. So it's kind of being a new habit. People feel more comfortable with that. But giving a hug and kissing your family and friends, that has come back. Which is a surprise to me. But all that is back. So it... it feels like a relief. And I guess people are celebrating by rock concerts and big parties, even at our institute during the weekend.

CO: And lots of hugging and kissing.

AF: Yeah. Well, I thought that hugging and kissing would be a little awkward, also to shake hands. But in fact, that's all back.

CO: We can only envy a situation like that. Now, the reason why you have what you say, the virus, which is of... no longer of concern, which is which your government has said is I understand because of the high rate of vaccination, of people being vaccinated. And that's... you have 73 per cent of your population fully vaccinated. What… what's behind that, given that other countries that have access to the vaccine are so far behind. What has been behind Denmark's success in getting people vaccinated?

AF: I think the vaccination is at least 77 per cent of everybody above 12 years of age have got the two Pfizer or Moderna are the only two vaccines that we use. Well, I guess it's trust for the government. It's trust for the health authorities that keep explaining. And also, we have had a very efficient tracing of infection chains, a very tight surveillance. And we have also done a lot to go into minority, marginalized groups. People on the street are being vaccinated. And mostly, the vulnerable people, which is the elderly and people with some diseases. So we don't see an increase in hospitalization. On the contrary, that's all going down. So all the vulnerable groups have been vaccinated. And it's only the younger population from 30 to 39 years of age that we see sometimes hospitalized. And even that is going down also.

CO: And what about the variants? I mean, have you had what other countries have had, the third wave now moving into the fourth wave? What was it like during the... the third wave period and this Delta variant that's been introduced?

AF: Yeah, we got the Delta variant mostly this summer. And what we did was having a very intensive contact tracing of people and having the Delta variant. And we could do that real-time, the same day people were tested. And so contacts of contacts has to be isolated. And that postponed the increase of the Delta variant for one-and-a-half months. And during that one-and-a-half months this summer, we intensified the vaccination of... of everybody that, you know, you could... we had cars driving around in front of grocery store, shops, and in gymnasiums and schools, and so on, and vaccinating. And the communities that are foreigners that live in ghettos, they've all been contacted on their own language and been vaccinated. Intensively, why we were postponing the fourth wave for one-and-a-half months because of this intensive care.

CO: I'm sure you have seen what's happening in many other countries where there are these anti-vaccination rallies. Do you have that movement at all in your country?

AF: We do have a little, yes. I've seen some cars with... with speakers on the top trying to tell people not to get vaccinated. But actually, there's not a movement or a protest like in France; they are, you know, demonstrating every Saturday for the last five Saturdays in a row. So pretty much people are happy by getting the vaccination. It's been inspiring through the social media influencers. We have used that a lot. And explaining in popular programs in the radio and TV. And it's all voluntary. And I think this voluntary people kind of listening to that and do not want to, you know, hurt their neighbour by bringing the infection.

CO: Well, hats off to your country for doing this and having your people respect the reasons for it, Dr, Fomsgaard. And I hope you all stay healthy. Thanks for speaking with us.

AF: You're welcome. Thank you.

CO: Goodnight.

CH: Dr. Anders Fomsgaard is the chief virologist at the State Serum Institute in Copenhagen, Denmark.

[music: country guitar]

O’Toole Can Sling Mud

CH: Erin O'Toole made it clear today that, if he has to get a little nasty to defeat Justin Trudeau, he'll definitely give it a try. The Conservative leader was in suburban Ottawa to start the final week of the campaign. The polls suggest that he's in a close race -- with Maxime Bernier's People's Party shaving off votes from Mr. O'Toole's right flank. So Erin O'Toole warned supporters that a vote for anyone other than his Conservatives would help the Liberal leader. Then he made his case for why that's a bad idea.

SOUNDCLIP

ERIN O’TOOLE: This election is also about trust, about whether or not we want to reward Justin Trudeau for breaking his promise and calling an unnecessary 600 million dollar election in the middle of a pandemic? The differences between Justin Trudeau and myself are stark. I grew up in the suburbs. My neighbours were auto workers. My dad worked for General Motors. When Mr. Trudeau was partying, and we've all seen the photos. I was doing search and rescue missions in the military. Every Canadian has met a Justin Trudeau in their lives: privileged, entitled, and always looking out for number one. He was looking out for number one when he called this expensive and unnecessarily... unnecessary election in the middle of a pandemic, a 600 million dollar power grab. An election that has done nothing to stop the fourth wave. It's only made things worse by taking the government's eye off the ball. That's not leadership. It's self-interest. And it's Justin Trudeau through and through.

CH: That was Conservative leader Erin O'Toole speaking to supporters in suburban Ottawa this morning. This afternoon in Vancouver, Justin Trudeau fired back. The Liberal leader said, quote, "I'm going to let him and his proxies in the anti-vaxxer movement, in the gun lobby, in the anti-choice crowd, continue to attack me. Fine. I'm going to continue to stay focused on Canadians on what Canadians are telling me about what they need." Unquote.

[music: hip-hop beat]

Mammoth Regeneration

Guest: George Church

CH: It's been more than 4,000 years since the last woolly mammoths walked the Earth. But a new company called Colossal believes it can bring them back to life with the help of genetic engineering. The project is being led by Harvard geneticist George Church, who has pioneered new approaches to DNA sequencing and gene editing. We reached Mr. Church in Boston.

CO: Mr. Church. Why do you want to bring the woolly mammoth back from extinction?

GEORGE CHURCH: Well, we are really focussing on a cold-resistant elephant, so we're just bringing back a few genes, and we want to rewild it to an area where the mammoth was common in order to save the Arctic from releasing a lot of carbon into the air.

CO: Wow, that's lots to unpack there! So you are... this is the Asian elephants which are endangered. You're going to genetically modify them to withstand temperatures in the Arctic?

GC: Right, using the deep knowledge we have now of the mammoth genomes from multiple animals.

CO: This isn't exactly a new idea, is it? There have been a number of efforts over the past decade to revive the woolly mammoth. Why do you believe that your team can make it happen?

GC: There have been some that have tried to do direct cloning from frozen cells. But the problem is those have been irradiated for 10,000-plus years, and that results in the DNA being fragmented to little pieces. So cells just can't survive that kind of irradiation, even... even if the freezing were perfect, which it wasn't. And many people have read the ancient DNA into computers using next generation sequencing methods. And we take it from the computers, and then we synthesize it. And using CRISPR and other editing tools, put it into modern elephant cells. So those are totally viable. And we know how to do that because we've done that with pig genomes. We've extensively edited pig genomes so they can be organ donors.

CO: Right. And to what end? Why do you want to create an animal that can... an elephant that can live in the Arctic?

GC: the way it was 10,000 years ago was a higher ratio of grass to forests, and that allowed the snow to be packed down and the minus 40 degree to penetrate to the summer soil better. Better reflections of light and better photosynthesis. So all of those resulted in a colder ground. What's at stake is 1,400 gigatons of carbon, compared to the mere 10 gigatons of carbon that humans release every year. So it's a... it's a huge amount that could just be released in the worst possible form, which is methane, just by the warming that's going on and the forest fires that are going on -- two million acres in Siberia alone.

CO: But don't... wouldn't woolly mammoths or animals like them, don't they release a lot of methane gas? Or will you engineer them not to pass gas?

GC: No, so we could do that. But also, it's a trivial amount compared to the amount that's in the ground. The amount of carbon in the Arctic is larger than all the forests put together. Typically, the Amazon is only about a metre thick of carbon. And in the Arctic, it's more like 500 metres in places. So it's a huge amount, and it's melting quickly.

CO: Your vision is that these animals would be there in the... in large numbers. You'd like to see not just an experiment with one, but you want to see a production of thousands of these creatures?

GC: That's right. So, I mean, they're social animals. They want to be in herds. But also, we would like to distribute them as far and wide as the Canadian, American, and Russian governments are enthusiastic.

CO: Right. Have you had enthusiasm from the Canadian government to have an elephant-like creature living in the Arctic?

GC: I think there's a lot of enthusiasm in Russia about mammoths and restoration. I wouldn't be surprised if similar sentiments in America and Canada. But that's in the future. We also hope to produce a lot of technology that's useful for conservation in general. It's a whole new movement to get molecular biology to make contributions.

CO: So you think you might be able to do this in Siberia. You hope that Canada will allow you to put something like a woolly mammoth herd into the Arctic. There are people living in these parts of the world. Have you consulted them?

GC: We are consulting, yes. I've lived with some of them. But we are consulting them, and hopefully, they can benefit from it.

CO: In what way would they benefit?

GC: The precedent is bison restoration. There was about a hundred, couple hundred, bison in the world. They were almost extinct. And now they're half a million. And that was done with quite a large number of ranchers and people that benefit from bison being back.

CO: Right, but that wasn't 10,000 years ago. I mean, that was recently that those... those animals are being recovered in those areas where there have been recently this. But we're talking about an animal that hasn't been in the Arctic in 10,000 years, right? So do you think there's really a place for them up there?

GC: Well, there's... the further north you go, the lower the human population density is and the colder it gets in there in the winter. So it still is minus 30, minus 40 in the wintertime. So, you know, there are a limited number of herbivores that are adapted for that temperature. So, yes, there's 10 million square kilometres or more that's suitable for them.

CO And what will they eat?

GC: Grass and trees. The same thing they eat all throughout the world. So they... they tend to knock over trees. Some herbivores have already been restored where we collaborate. But these are needed for converting some of the treelands back to grasslands.

CO: Right. Just finally, how soon might we see herds of these woolly mammoth-type creatures living in the arctics of countries like Alaska, Canada, Siberia?

GC: I mean, the simple answer is, I don't know. I think Ben Lamm, my co-founder, you know, is hoping six years. So two of those years are just the gestation period for development of a baby. And that's not to get a herd. That's just to get the first set of calves. And that's a very aggressive timeline.

CO: All right. All right, Mr. Church, we'll leave it there. Thank you.

GC: Thank you.

CH: George Church is a professor of genetics at Harvard Medical School and the co-founder of Colossal, a bioscience and genetics company.

[music: surf rock]

The Great Mouthwash Heist

CH: Police in Lincolnshire, England, are asking for help identifying three suspects who have evaded capture for months now. And while grand theft is a tired old story, this case is a breath of fresh air. CCTV footage from April shows two men breaking through the gate at a locked compound. A third suspect uses a tractor-trailer to ram through another barrier, and then to haul out the target of this tightly choreographed, highly cinematic operation: a freight container filled with… mouthwash. Also, some gum. Forty-four thousand dollars' worth, in total. And then, like the taste of coffee or garlic after a good rinse-and-spit, they were gone. Now, after weeks of chewing over the clues, police have a bad taste in their mouths. You'd think the suspiciously healthy gums and gleaming teeth of the suspects would give them away -- not to mention the clouds of wintry freshness in their wake. But no: the newly-minted bad guys, and their really good breath, remain at large. And, not to be a pessimist, but they're likely to stay that way -- as long as they keep their mouths shut.

[music: hip-hop beat]

Part 3

B.C. Vaccine Passport Cards

CH: Dr. Shane Barclay has been fielding calls from patients at his clinic near Kamloops. They're not looking for vaccine appointments. They're looking for medical exemptions. As of today in British Columbia, a vaccine card is needed to access some non-essential services, such as restaurants and gyms. And some people are trying to skirt the new policy -- by asking their doctors for an exemption note. That prompted Dr. Barclay to write a strongly-worded letter to his patients at Sun Peaks Community Health Centre. In which he says, "I am not prepared to commit fraud so someone can avoid a vaccine." Dr. Barclay spoke to the CBC today about the exemption requests -- and his dismay.

SOUNDCLIP

SHELLEY JOYCE: So what exactly did you say to your patients in this letter?

SHANE BARCLAY: Well, initially, I was going to say very little, but it just sort of kept going and going. And the initial part of the letter was about the exemptions, of which I was getting more and more requests. But then I went on to talk about… about other concerns that have been surfaced since the vaccines came out about side effects and whatnot.

SJ: First of all, start by telling me about these requests that you're getting from patients of yours for a vaccine exemption. Like, who are you getting them from, and what are they asking for exactly?

SB: Most of them are just point blank. Can I get a letter of exemption from the COVID vaccine because of... I've got this serious medical condition, or I had a reaction to a vaccine many years ago. But patients, I don't... I don't know that they've read what are the exemptions? And there basically aren't any. And having a serious medical condition makes you, in my books, even more in the line of you should be getting a vaccine. And if you've had a reaction to, you know, the shingles vaccine or tetanus vaccine 10 years ago, that does not exempt you. It has to be a severe allergic reaction to the COVID vaccine itself, you know, or under the age of 12, or if you've had a previous vaccine in the last two weeks. That's it. Those are the only exemptions.

SJ: Well, so what... what are valid reasons to be exempted from the vaccine?

SB: The most valid one is having had a severe allergic reaction to your first COVID vaccine. And that's it.

SJ: You mentioned that you started to write this letter, and then it spilled out into more detail. And it kind of like... your fury just went wild. Tell us... tell me about how frustrating it must be for someone like you?

SB: Yeah, I mean, it certainly is not fury. Frustration, certainly, there's a degree. I think the biggest emotion is just sadness that I've had to write a letter at all. That physicians are having to deal with this whole mentality of, you know, the vaccines aren't safe, or the COVID's joke or whatever. That's just is crap and saddening as a physician.

CH: That was Dr. Shane Barclay speaking with Shelley Joyce, host of the CBC's "Daybreak Kamloops".

[music: acoustic guitar]

Lytton Councillor Two Months Later

Guest: John Haugen

CO: And do people accept that? Do they understand that that is what's coming?

JH: Some do, but not all. There are people that do doubt science, or they choose not to learn more about it.

CO: You have witnessed this firsthand, what many fear might happen in their communities, which is the destruction by fire of so much of your community. And what does things look like now? Have you... has there been an opportunity to rebuild any of it?

JH: No, there hasn't been an opportunity to rebuild now. They're just sorting through the ashes. Some people are sifting their former homes to find heirlooms or treasures. And then there has to be the point where they go in to level the ground and remove any hazardous materials and sort of let the ground rest and put a footprint around there for a while and see how they can rebuild in that same location, if that's what they're choosing to do. And I think most are.

CO: So many things need to be done, right? I mean, in order to adapt to this rapidly changing environment. And just to go back to the election again, what do you want to hear? I know you're saying that politicians, they're selling themselves, right? They have to say certain things. But what do you want to hear from politicians as to what policies they are going to put in place?

JH: Well, I would want to hear policies that really do have an effect and where they draw down our carbon dioxide emissions and things like that. When you know of governments that are heavily invested in fossil fuels, and they want to get fossil fuels to other countries through pipelines, it's risky business, and it's risky for the environment, and it's risky for climate change, and its... there's just so many risks. Because once we get them to the ocean, then they have to cross the ocean. So even those sea-dwelling creatures are at risk. And we heard that. We've known now that. But where do we go from here?

CO: Can I ask you how... have you decided how you're going to vote in this election?

JH: Yeah, I voted already in an advance poll because I don't exactly know where my polling station is. I'm on the road that day. I didn't want to be chasing down a polling station.

CO: And do you want to share with us what you finally… you don't have to, of course, but I'm just wondering.

JH No, I'll just keep that a secret for now. [CO chuckles] But --

CO: All right. I understand.

JH: But I did do the vote. And I encourage other Indigenous people to vote and try to make the difference and try to make the change within their local electoral areas.

CO: All right. We will leave it there. Councillor Haugen, it's good to talk to you. Thank you.

JH: Thank you as well, Carol. And good evening to all your listeners.

CO: You bet. Thank you.

JH: Take care.

CH: John Haugen is a Lytton First Nation councillor. He was near Lytton, B.C.

[music: horns!!]

Diem Saunders Obit

CH: Diem Saunders knew a lot about the cycles of violence that affect Indigenous women and girls. In 2014, their own sister, Loretta Saunders, was murdered in Halifax. And in 2017, Diem Saunders spoke passionately about the need for action at community hearings for the National Inquiry Into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls in Membertou, Nova Scotia. That history makes the news of Diem's own death all the more tragic. The RCMP say the Inuk activist's body was found in a home in Happy Valley-Goose Bay -- and that the death was "not suspicious". Now, Miriam Saunders is mourning the death of another child. One she says "wanted to help people." That was certainly the case after Loretta Saunders died. At the time, Diem spoke with Carol on "As It Happens" about why they were determined to finish the thesis their late sister had started.

SOUNDCLIP

DIEM SAUNDERS: She hadn't completely finished it, but she was on the cusp of completing it. And obviously, there have been a lot of developments since her passing. The number of missing and murdered Indigenous women has nearly doubled. So I will be releasing her... her work, as well as just making note that the... the statistics have definitely increased.

CO: And those... the statistics are just every one of them represents a sad story, a tragic story. And you wanted to do this work yourself. Others offered to... to complete her thesis. Why did you want to be the one who did it?

DS: Because I knew Loretta intimately. Like, I... I would help with her work and offer her moral support. And I know her story. I felt like I owed it to her because I was there with her every step of the way. And, well, knowing she's unable to do something that she worked so hard for, I feel like it's my job to honour her and honour the women that she really fought for. She wanted to try and make a change in the system and bring awareness to... to the fact that there are designed roles for marginalized people.

CO: And how did she come to know those cycles? Did she have any personal experience with them?

DM: Yes, she... she definitely had hardships and experienced many forms of abuse. And she learned about colonization in university, and everything just fell together. And she was able to... she... she found what I found last year. She found something that lit her fire, and she found her purpose and found the work that she had to do.

CH: Inuk activist Diem Saunders, speaking with Carol in 2015 -- the year after their sister Loretta was murdered. Diem Saunders was found dead in Happy Valley-Goose Bay last week.

[music: glassy guitar]

Butter Sculpture Artist Retires

Guest: Linda Christensen

CH: For the past 50 years -- for 12 days in a row at the end of each summer -- Linda Christensen has walked into the Dairy Building at the Minnesota State Fair. She's put on a winter coat, gloves, and a hat, and climbed into a refrigerated glass booth. And then she has carved sculptures of young women -- the finalists in the "Princess Kay of the Milky Way" dairy pageant. The booth is about four degrees Celsius inside. The perfect temperature for creating a butter sculpture. And for five decades, Ms. Christensen carved hundreds of them. But at the end of August, she carved her last one. We've reached Linda Christensen, newly retired butter sculptor, at her home in Oceanside, California.

CO: Linda, how is retirement going so far?

LINDA CHRISTENSEN: Well, I'm... I'm a little at loose ends right now just because I have to kind of change my thinking about myself. I'm no longer the butter sculptor at the Minnesota State Fair, which has become kind of part of my identity.

Speaker 1: How did you come to be the butter sculptor at the Minnesota State Fair? You started like in 1972, right?

LC: Yes, that was my first state fair. And I had just graduated from the Minneapolis College of Art and Design. And Minnesota was trying at the time to become the bread and butter state. And when the “Princess Kay of the Milky Way” contest started, which is a contest to select a young woman who comes from a dairy background to promote dairy and be the kind of ambassador for the dairy community, they decided to try and have someone do portraiture or a bust of... of the contestants, the finalists.

CO: And was it... and did they... and did they decide it should be in butter or was that your idea?

LC: No, they... that... it was... it was they wanted it to be in butter. And so they called the College of Art and Design and asked them to recommend someone, and then the college recommended me.

CO: Wow!

LC: So I was well aware of the Minnesota State Fair. I was a constant attendant every year. I said, what a fun way to make a little summer money! [CO laughs] And off I went, not knowing that 50 fairs later, I would still be at it. [laughing]

CO: You’ve done this for five decades, right? I mean, this is --

LC: Five decades, yes.

CO: Wow! And so how many... how many busts made of butter do you think you have actually carved?

LC: Well, I do... I did one a day for 12 days. And each one carved out of 90 pound blocks of butter. And although the number has varied a little bit, it's over 550 that I've done over five decades.

CO: So this would be not just the winner who became the “Princess Kay of the Milky Way”, but all the runners up as well?

LC: Yes, uh-huh. Yeah.

CO: And did they actually... did they... did they pose? Did they sit for this?

LC: They put on their winter garb. Canadians are well aware of winter garb, right? [laughing] And heavy boots and thick jackets and top it off with a satin banner that says “Princess K Finalist” and put a tiara on their head and sit right there in the booth with me the whole day. It takes me from about 9:00 in the morning till about 5:00. And we have warm-up breaks and lunch breaks and so forth. But I think I put in about six actual working hours -- and they're right in there with me.

CO: I have to say that my grandfather was... sculpted with butter. And it had quite a profound effect on his hands. He... on his arthritis. What effect has it had on your hands over all these years?

LC: Yeah, it's... it's the reason I finally decided to pass the butter knife along to my successor. My hands, they were starting to get very stiff as they got cold. But you said your grandfather did it?

CO: Yeah, well, just... he was… he was a chef, a pastry chef. And he would make the sculptures for the butter conventions or dairy conventions in Winnipeg, just north of you, actually, [chuckling] in Minnesota. So, yeah, but I remember him talking about how difficult it was and how cold it was to be doing this kind of work. And so what was it... did you like working in butter?

LC: Yeah, I did. It's a very nice medium to work in. You have it right, the cold is the only drawback. Other than that butter is wonderful to work with.

CO: What did the winners do? Did they get their busts of... ninety pound busts afterwards?

LC: Yeah, actually, the butter that I carve off, I put into sterile five gallon pails and they take that home and they also take their butter sculptures home. And that is absolutely one of the best parts of the whole story is the lives that these butter heads go on to live. Some of them wind up on wedding tables, some of them wind up being melted down and the entire small town the woman comes from turns out for a big sweet corn feed. And maybe they can flip in a pancake breakfast and still save the face off the sculpture. [CO laughs] I know one that's been around since 1980.

CO That is so interesting! And great stories on that. But you have now… but you have, as you say, passed the butter knife. Your successor is Gerry Kulzer, I believe, right?

LC: Yes, that's his name.

CO: What advice have you given to him?

LC: Um, the advice you've given him spans a few areas. How to keep warm, how to go out in a parking lot behind the dairy building where cars have been sitting in the sun and warm your hands up over the hood, how to pace yourself. And it's a big one because getting a likeness of someone in one day do-or-die, 9:00 to about 5:00 is... is the hardest part.

CO: Wow! Now, that's great. I'm sure he has appreciated all this advice. And... but I'm thinking of you. We reached you actually in Oceanside, California. And so I suspect that you have found someplace warm to now spend your days. [both laughing]

LC: Yes! I love my home state of Minnesota. I will... my heart will always be there. But I do love where I am. It's really nice.

CO: Well, Linda, have a happy retirement, and it's really been fun to talk to you. Thank you.

LC: Thank you. Thank you.

CO: Bye-bye.

LC: Bye.

CH: Linda Christensen is the former principal artist of Minnesota State Fair butter sculptures. She retired this week, after fifty years of sculpting. We reached her in Oceanside, California.

[music: carnival music]

Don Maddox Obit

[music: rockabilly]

CH: By the mid-1930s, Fred Maddox was tired of picking fruit with his family. He decided to pick up an instrument instead. And subsequently, he and his siblings wound up reinventing themselves as a band. And helping to invent a whole new kind of music: rockabilly. Don Maddox -- the second-youngest Maddox brother -- died yesterday. He was 96. He had been the last surviving member of that pioneering family band. Don wound up playing the fiddle in the band -- which included five Maddox brothers and their sister Rose, who sang. They performed under the name: "The Maddox Brothers and Rose". The music was more imaginative than the name. The longer they played together, the more the music mutated into a hybrid of what Don called "hillbilly music" and early rock 'n' roll. Partly due to Fred -- who played an early version of slap bass. Because, according to Don, "he didn't know the notes." Well, what Fred didn't know didn't hurt them. The Maddox Brothers and Rose are now considered pivotal in the evolution of rockabilly. And, possibly, in the evolution of Elvis Presley's wardrobe: when he opened for the band in Texas, he greatly admired their colourful stage outfits and bell bottoms. "One of these days," Don remembered him saying, "I'm gonna get me a fancy outfit like that.”

Back To Top »

Provide Transcript Feedback

CBC would like to acknowledge the support of the Broadcasting Accessibility Fund.

September 13, 2021 Episode Transcript

More Stories Like This