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The AIH Transcript For August 23, 2021

[hosts]Helen Mann, Chris Howden[/hosts]

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann, sitting in for Carol Off.

CHRIS HOWDEN: Good evening. I'm Ali Hassan, sitting in for Chris Howden. This is “As It Happens”.

[music: theme]

Prologue

CH: Tonight:

HM: Fight or flight. Thousands of Afghans are still at the airport in Kabul, trying to get out before the final withdrawal of US troops -- and a BBC reporter says the situation is desperate.

CH: Second opinion. A member of Ontario's COVID advisory panel quits, saying the modelling that shows a "grim" fall to come is being withheld from the public. But the scientific head of that panel tells us he's not holding anything back.

HM: Swept away. After deadly floods in his community, a Tennessee man tells us that every time he thinks he has a handle on what's happened, there's more devastating news to digest.

CH: Sibling revelry. We remember Don Everly, whose honkytonk harmonies and rock and roll rhythm guitar gave the Everly Brothers their signature sound.

HM: Destination unknown. Governor General's Literary Award winner Kim Senklip Harvey reads from an original essay on the theme of "Moving Forward" -- and leaves us with all kinds of questions about where we're headed.

CH: And... blown off the stage. Bad weather abruptly halts a huge weekend concert in Central Park in the middle of a Barry Manilow performance. So he finds another way to deliver his big number.

CH: “As It Happens”, the Monday edition radio that knows you can't keep a good Manilow down.

[music: theme]

Part 1: Kabul Airport, Tennessee Flooding, Reading: Kim Senklip Harvey

Kabul Airport

Guest: Lyse Doucet

CH: The scene at Kabul International airport grows more desperate by the day. In the past week, stampedes and shootings inside the airport have left at least 20 people dead. And today, an Afghan guard was killed during a firefight involving an unidentified shooter and Western forces. It all leave Afghans caught in the cross-fire and the chaos. Thousands are inside the airport, holding out identification documents, pleading with officials. Meanwhile, thousands of others are clamouring at the gates to enter the airport. Lyse Doucet has been there all day. She's the BBC's chief international correspondent. We reached her in Kabul.

HM: Lyse, how would you describe the scene that you've witnessed at the airport in Kabul today?

LYSE DOUCET: I have to admit I wasn't prepared for what I saw on the airfield at Kabul International Airport. It is an airport that I have used for decades. But when I stepped out of the mouth of one of those hulking military transport planes and walked onto the tarmac, it just hit me like a brick. The intensity, the enormity, the darkness. All across the tarmac in every direction, every corner of the... of the airfield were these hulking grey military transport planes from the United States, from Germany, from Britain. There were helicopters in the sky buzzing overhead. But most of all, in every direction, there were these long queues, very orderly queues of Afghans. And the queues looked like they had no end. And the people in the queues were silent. And everyone was carrying one bit of luggage, one purse. That was all they were allowed to leave. And just seeing them and knowing that this was not just queues, you know, thousands and thousands of Afghans taking a plane, boarding a plane to go to a different country, they were leaving behind the life they had built for the last 20 years. They had to give up on their country for the moment and go to an uncertain destination and a very unclear future.

HM: It sounds like you're describing a haunting scene. We know there was a firefight earlier today. An Afghan guard was killed in the incident. It sounds chaotic. Can you tell us anything about that incident and what's going on around the perimeter?

LD: Yes, so that was striking, too, because all of us, including myself, had seen these scenes of chaos, thousands of Afghans in a crush of people pushing toward the one metal gate, which was the last barrier between the world outside Afghanistan, which is changing by the hour now under Taliban control and the tarmac with evacuation flights that would take them away to another country. And those crowds include people who are waving bits of paper that say, I've been cleared, I've been given permission, I've been given a visa by the Americans, by the British, by the Canadians. But it also includes people who have heard that this is the last way out, and then the window will close. And so they're trying their luck in pushing to the airport. You know, I'm getting like almost now on the hour, sometimes minute by minute S.O.S. messages. Are you at the airport? My friend has a child, and the child hasn't had any water for days. Are you close to the airport? My friend has all of the papers, and he just needs to get to the front of the queue. He's been waiting for days. Lyse, can you help us? We've got the money together for a private charter. We're going to take out Afghan women journalists. Can you help us? I'm just one person. And if I'm getting all those messages, so many others are getting those messages. Now, you mentioned, of course, the firing incident. That's just one incident. I didn't see it, but I heard it because I slept at the airfield last night. And about 2:00 in the morning, I heard the rat a tat tat tat tat of small arms fire. And it went on for a long time. So I sat there in the darkness, listening. There had been some kind of an exchange of fire, some hostile attacker, as they put it, and they had engaged, as it turned out. And it surprised many of us that at a time when the Taliban are in control around the perimeter of the airport, which is now under American military control, for now, that there are still some Afghan government forces who are working with the Americans in these final days.

HM: What is the hold up for getting those people who have the authentication the ability to leave? Is it the sheer size of the crowd and managing to get people through that... that's causing this delay?

LD: People are packed, they're packed tight, and it just moves so slowly. And yes, it is because there are so many people on so many flights and also the people who are just there trying their luck. They think, well, if everyone else is rushing to the airport, they must know something that I don't know.

HM: And that race against time, I mean, that the window is closing. The U.S. troops are set to withdraw on the 31st of August. Now, Joe Biden has said that he is considering extending that, but the Taliban is refusing. What is your sense? Are you hearing anything on the ground about negotiations, about the possibility of that... that time period being extended?

LD: The Taliban are such sticklers on details. So the Taliban are again emphasizing you have to stick with the deal. That's what their state, their spokespersons, are saying. But, yes, behind the scenes, there were urgent talks going on between Americans and the Taliban, between neighbours and the Taliban. And quite frankly, the Taliban, at this 11th hour, I don't think will want. A military confrontation with the Americans, most of all, because they have now moved from an insurgency to a movement trying to become a government again, that is their main priority.

HM: In terms of... of your experience over the last 48 hours. Is there a conversation, an incident, a scene that... that particularly sticks with you?

LD: I was startled when I was flying to Qatar. This is the odd thing, of course, when everyone leaves, the journalists arrive, and people are saying, why are you going in? And everyone, you know, people are trying to get out. But I was exchanging WhatsApp messages, trying to help friends. And one of them is Bilal Sarwary, who I have known since he was a scraggly young 20-something Afghan who'd been working at an antique shop in the northern city of Peshawar. And he came with journalists to Kabul as the Taliban were on the run. And he started working for us at the BBC. And by sheer force of personality, he got himself to university in the United States. He developed a book of contacts that would be the envy of any journalist. And he became in recent years the most prominent journalist telling the story of Afghanistan in English. But because he was so prominent, many of us wondered whether or not he'd be able to stay. And so I was discussing how to help Bilal as I was flying to Kabul. And as we got off the plane, we then saw the queue, the long line of people to get on the plane. And there was Bilal. And I didn't expect him. And all of a sudden, I said, Bilal, you know, you were always the one who said, I will never leave Afghanistan. He was the most patriotic Afghan journalist that I know. So that if even he had said, I have to go. And he said to the... you know, he said, this is not a time for rhetoric. I hope the Taliban have learnt the lessons of the past. I did my best to tell Afghanistan's story. And even recently, his first daughter was born, and he named her Sola, which means peace. And I asked about Sola, and he said, well, I hope she will understand the decisions I have made for her. But then, in a very Afghan way, Afghans are such poets. He said, you know, we have this fatal love affair with Afghanistan. In other words, it's so deadly, but we will keep coming... keep coming back to Afghanistan. And when I put the photograph of Bilal and I, when I put the interview on social media, there was such a big reaction because he really has struck a chord around the world, the way he has talked about Afghanistan. I remember, years and years ago when we started... so many Afghans started being killed by suicide bombers, and the Taliban were inching their way back into power. He said to me one day, he says, you know, when I leave friends now, I never say, see you soon. You know, we say see you soon. Bye. See you soon. He said, I never say that because when I say goodbye to friends, I don't know whether I'll see them again.

HM: You know, we spoke with Bilal on the program last week. Do you know if he's safe now?

LD: He's safe. But, you know, there's the war on the ground, and then there's the war in people's minds. People like Bilal, they're the 9/11 generation. They came of age after the Taliban were ousted. They grabbed the opportunities, this window of international engagement, getting the best education they could find, getting opportunities. And their identity has been forged in Afghan soil, with their feet firmly on the ground. And now that ground has been ripped away from them. How do you carry on with this, the war in your head? How do you find peace of mind? Everything about your life, your identity, the life you lived and loved is gone. How... how do you begin again when you still haven't... what you left behind is still... is still part of you.

HM: Lyse, thank you very much for telling us the story of what you're seeing there. We appreciate it.

LD: Thank you.

CH: Lyse Doucet is the BBC's chief international correspondent. We reached her in Kabul.

[music: ambient]

Tennessee Flooding

Guest: Kansas Klein

CH: One woman thought she was going to drown with her baby. Another compared the water to a "tidal wave." And others have spoken about desperately looking for their loved ones -- not knowing whether they're still alive. These are the stories coming out of Tennessee, after parts of the state suffered severe flooding on the weekend. At least 22 people are dead, and the water has left behind scenes of destruction in the community of Waverly, west of Nashville. Kansas Klein is a business owner in Waverly. That's where we reached him.

HM: Mr. Klein, how are you holding up right now?

KANSAS KLEIN: Oh, I'm OK. I'm fine.

HM: And your family?

KK: My family is all good. They're safe.

HM: OK, are you able to get any sleep?

KK: Yeah, it's been... I haven't been near as affected as a lot of people. So, I mean, I just lost a business. I didn't lose family, so.

HM: It's still pretty devastating to lose your business.

KK: It is.

HM: Can you take us back to Saturday when the flooding happened and tell us where you were at the time?

KK: I was home. I live about four miles north of town where there was no flooding. But we were just getting a lot of rain. And I knew our town was subject to flood, especially where my restaurant is. So, it just kept raining and raining. So I decided I needed to go check on it and drove to town and couldn't make it in because the river runs right through the centre of town. So I was on the bridge and just could see, I mean, it was water everywhere. The entire... entire town was already flooded.

HM: You shared some videos on Facebook that includes houses submerged, things floating along. Can you describe what you saw and what we see on those videos?

KK: Yeah, that's exactly what I saw. There was... on the bridge, the water was... I know where I was standing over the bridge, that water had to be at least 30 feet deep, just judging by the, you know, where I'm standing. And cars were floating down, houses were floating down, storage units were floating down and just hitting trees and knocking out trees and destroying other buildings.

HM: Was it fast-moving water?

KK: It was very fast water. That was… that was the shocking part about how fast the water was going and how fast it was still rising. I could watch it rising up the side of the bridge.

HM: Did you see any people in the water?

KK: I did. We were standing there. We heard someone yell, and we saw two girls were clinging to a board. And they're coming to us, and we run down to it. But there's no way we could get to them. Because, one, they were... it was just going so fast and they were about 20 feet under the bridge. So there was nothing we could do.

HM: Do you know what's happened to them?

KK: I don't. I know we have a lot of people missing, and I didn't recognize the girls. There were young girls. But I really don't know.

HM: That sounds like it must be very haunting for you to have seen that.

KK: That was. That was rough. And just knowing you couldn't help them, like, you just stand there and watch them go disappear into the trees.

HM: You've since been able to drive through Waverly in the aftermath. What are you seeing in the way of destruction right now?

KK: It's pretty well destroyed in town. Where the creek is and where it runs through town, that's where the businesses are and a lot of the rental property, a lot of the apartment complexes. And they're, I mean, they're destroyed. There’s houses that are just gone off the foundation. There’s houses that have just floated down the shore. There's one part in town, one intersection, where there's five houses all floated up and just kind of stacked up. There's cars everywhere, stacked two or three high up against telephone poles. The power lines are down. The plaza where my restaurant is, a lot of the stores have, you know, glass... all glass fronts. The glass is all smashed out. And there was about six… well, not about... there was six feet of water in there. So everything is just destroyed in the main plaza, which is where our grocery store was.

HM: Were you able to get inside your restaurant?

KK: I was in there yesterday, yes.

HM: What did you find?

KK: Oh, it's totally destroyed. Like, with six feet of water, everything that was in there just floated and mangled around and smashed and windows were broke out. And there's nothing salvageable in there.

HM: Are you able to do anything in terms of a cleanup right now or are you waiting?

KK: I'm waiting just because it's a total loss. You know, there's... we're helping other people. I had some rental property, so we've been helping them get cleaned up, you know, places where they live, like the restaurant’s minimal thought right now.

HM: I know. I have to ask because, you know, I know not every area gets flood insurance. Are you going to be covered?

KK: Um, no, we can't. Where my business is, we can't get flood insurance because it's in the flood plain. And then the rental properties down through there, the ones that can get insurance, it's... it's so high that you can't afford it. So most people don't have flood insurance.

HM: Now, you mentioned that there are people still missing. Are your family and friends accounted for?

KK: All my family and close friends I know are. There are people on the list that they're looking for that I know very well. We’re a small town, so, you know, we know almost everybody. So I know a lot of people that are on that list. And I know a lot of people on the list that are confirmed that didn't make it.

HM: I'm very sorry. It's just awful. Have... have you been talking with other members of your community, hearing some of the stories of what they experienced? I mean, can you share anything with us?

KK: So in where my restaurant is at the end of the grocery store, a friend of mine owns that. And he had, I think he said six employees in there. And the water was rising and rose so fast that they didn't get out. And they had like an elevated office, and they were all up in that office standing in about chest-deep water. And they were popping off the ceiling tiles and trying to climb up in the rafters to get up away from the water because they couldn't get out of the building. So they were in there for he said about four hours. And then, the water started receding and they're able to get out. So no one actually got hurt. But I can imagine how scary that was.

HM: Your house is removed enough from this. So you're OK at home?

KK: My home is good. I had four rental properties that are destroyed. Like the one girl that worked in my office, she lives in the house that we're trying to help her out. And… but there’s a lot that are gone.

HM: Yeah, and you always hear in these situations that communities come together. What are you seeing from... from your neighbours?

KK: That's pretty inspiring. They've been doing a lot. You can drive down... I just drove through Main Street this morning and, of course, all the churches are open, giving breakfast and giving a place for people to stay. But there's just people with pick up trucks and like a pop-up tent with cases of water that just says “free”. And they have their grills from home and they're out there just grilling and giving away food to people. So that's been really nice to see the support.

HM: How do you think Waverly will recover from this?

KK: I don't know. I don't... I really don't know how, because we've lost, you know, a lot of businesses. And all the homes, there's no place for these people to go. So they're going to have to leave this area. They’re going to have to relocate. They don't have an option to go down the road and buy a house or go somewhere else and rent. There just isn't the inventory right now.

HM: You mentioned, you know, this is already known to be an area that floods. Have you thought of potentially leaving?

KK: No. I mean, this is home. And it's not flooding like a massive area of flooding. It's always localized flooding along that river. I can tell you I won't [chuckle] buy any more houses or put anymore rental properties in that area. I won't rebuild my restaurant.

HM: Do you think you'll rebuild your restaurant somewhere else?

KK: No. Nope. The last year, the economy, the way the economy is, the way everything is going in the world, and then with this, I just don't think it's worth it.

HM: Do you think you've processed at this point what your community has been through?

KK: I feel like I have. And then I hear another story or I see another release of a person that they found. And it just... you can think all you want, but when the reality sets, it changes your perspective. And... and I know they found it in the person this morning that I knew. So, no, I don't think I'm fully adjusted.

HM: I'm really sorry for your loss, and all the way around. I mean, obviously, losing friends and acquaintances is the hardest part, but the whole thing sounds just like a mess. Thank you so much, Mr. Klein. I wish you the very best.

KK: Thank you. Appreciate it.

HM: OK, Bye-Bye.

KK: Bye.

CH: Kansas Klein is a business owner in Waverly, the Tennessee community devastated by flooding this weekend. That's where we reached him. And we've posted more on the community's story to our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: glassy guitar]

Reading: Kim Senklip Harvey

CH: When we talked to playwright Kim Senklip Harvey after she won a Governor General's Literary Award, she told us the moment she found out about her win was, quote "mortifyingly embarrassing." She said that was because she was weeping. And she said she was weeping because the recognition meant success in a sector that wasn't built for her. Ms. Senklip Harvey is a member of the Syilx, and Tsilhqot'in Nations, and her GG-winning play -- "Kamloopa" -- is a riot. It's also just the beginning. This week on the show, we'll be featuring new, original writing from some of this year's Governor General's Literary Award winners, starting with Ms. Senklip Harvey. Her essay, "G'waan" is part of a series commissioned by CBC Books on the theme of "Moving Forward." And as you're about to hear, that's not something Kim Senklip Harvey has ever done in a conventional way.

SOUNDCLIP

KIM SENKLIP HARVEY: When I was really little, my uncle told me that for any good adventure, we don't go the way we came, which I don't know if that is true, but he always wins on Gold Rush scratchers so he knows a thing or two about something. Growing up with this, going back often felt like a missed opportunity to, I don't know, find the meaning of life. After baseball games, I'd beg anyone driving to take a different way. Can we please go on a road near that gully and pass the 7-Eleven? No. Come on! please. We have to go home. I wanted to go home, too. I just wanted to go a different way because how we got here hasn't always been the most fun. And I firmly believe that the gully and 7-Eleven route had secret opportunities like cream soda slurpees, which are mystical. The older I got, the more frustrating repeating routes felt. It was like we were going against cultural protocol. And didn't other people want to have better adventures? Find something even cooler than slurpees? When I spent my summers in the Tsilhqot'in, Uncle and I would quad all over the backcountry. We would take these circular routes all over the land. I'd be clutching onto the back rack the red Toyota trike, with the horse blanket strapped to my seat cushion and my brown and white Exuma Appaloosa face would get brushed by juniper and pine. As we raced across the volcanic plateau. I'd get tree needles stuck in my buck teeth, but it was the good life. Uncle would say that when we were moving through the land, time didn't exist. It is an experience that goes beyond the linear notion of living. It is a voyage across space, where dirtbag Chilcotin quad crews transform into cultural cosmonaut's on journeys that keep us alive. And he's right. It's an affecting experience traversing the land. And it can be somewhat disorientating from a frontiers perspective. But with our ochre treads and churman residues, we were marking the universe for the next generation to remember where we have come from so they know where we need to go.

CH: Kim Senklip Harvey is a Syilx and Tsilhqot'in playwright. You can read her essay "G'waan" -- and other commissioned writing from this year's Governor General's Literary Award winners -- at: www.cbcbook.ca.

[music: ambient]

Don Everly obit

CH: The first time anyone heard The Everly Brothers on the radio they were introduced as "Little Donnie" and "Baby Boy Phil." It was the mid-1940s. Don and Phil Everly weren't even in their teens. But their father had a radio show on the local station in Shenandoah, Iowa, and decided to put them on the air. It didn't take long for listeners to confirm what he already suspected -- his kids were destined to become stars. Don Everly, one half of the The Everly Brothers, died on Saturday. He was 84. They may have started out singing straight country songs. But it was a unique blend of country and rock and roll that went on to define The Everly Brothers sound. Their string of hits influenced artists like Simon and Garfunkel, the Rolling Stones, and the Beatles -- who loved the group so much they briefly considered calling themselves the "The Foreverly Brothers." Their personal relationship was often less harmonious than their music, but they didn't let sibling rivalry get in the way of the songs. As Don Everly told Sydney's Daily Telegraph in 1998, quote: "We have separate lives, but when we walk out onstage, it comes back, and it amazes me that we can do it. It's like riding a bicycle." Unquote.

[music: uke]

Part 2: Ontario COVID Numbers, Pro-Afghanistan Withdrawal

Ontario COVID Numbers

Guest: Peter Juni

CH: Ontarians have already been warned that, when it comes to COVID-19, they're facing a difficult autumn. The province's chief medical officer said so last week. And yesterday, Ontario saw 722 new cases. But a prominent epidemiologist on the province's advisory panel says authorities aren't being completely straight with the public about just how severe the fourth wave could become -- so he quit. David Fisman says that the latest COVID projections are "grim." And he says the modelling that shows that grim future is being withheld. Dr. Peter Juni is the scientific director of Ontario's COVID-19 Science Advisory Table. We reached him in Toronto.

HM: Dr Juni, is David Fisman right? Is this fall going to be grim when it comes to COVID?

PETER JUNI: We will find out. I can't give you a completely straight answer yet because we've never been there. We are in exponential growth again at a time when we've never been as open as right now. We see higher case numbers than a year ago. What will help us obviously is that a lot of people are already vaccinated. So from the perspective of ICUs at the same level of case numbers, our ICU beds will be less occupied with COVID-19 patients. But the pandemic certainly is not over. So we need to tread very carefully now in the first place, mainly because our children below the age of 12 are not vaccinated yet. That's the next big issue that we need to deal with. And the other part will then be that we need to carefully monitor and then react early, our hospitalization and our ICU numbers. And then make sure that our health care system is not again overwhelmed.

HM: In his resignation letter, Fisman alleged that projections about COVID are being withheld from the public for political reasons. Are you holding back projections?

PJ: No, we don't. To make that very clear. I've been with this table now in my role as scientific director for 14 months, and I haven't always been as diplomatic as others in the province. And I've never experienced any political pressure myself. Never during these 14 months. We do not hold back any modelling here for any political considerations. I'm not completely sure whether Dr. Fisman just is referring to one specific model? I've seen... and for you, it's important just to realize that we see quite a lot of models. And we also have, you know, different people present to our tables. And what I have in mind is a model coming from an individual scientist that doesn't refer to the entire province, a scientist who is also not yet a member of the modelling consensus table. I don't even have a copy of the presentation that they gave to the modelling consensus table. And this model will not be part of our regular modelling. Why? It doesn't even apply to the entire province. What the modelling consensus table now does off to their summer break. That's a volunteer table that had the summer break of two to three weeks after 18 months of intense work is they compile their regular models, they achieve a consensus. And what you will see relatively closely in the future is the regular projections, as we have seen them in the past. This hasn't happened, and we haven't withheld any of this consensus modelling.

HM: But, you know, given that we are just weeks away from children returning to school, people are trying to make decisions for the weeks and months ahead. And yet, we haven't seen an update on modelling since June. Why is that? Why could we not have a projection now, so... so people could be aided in those decisions?

PJ: Yes. So, first of all, I was very upfront in the past. You know, in the last few weeks, when I was actually indicating we are in the fourth wave, we shouldn't leave step three of the reopening framework because this wouldn't go down well. And the next big step will be school reopenings. None of that changes. We are still actually in the same framework. Now, there was indeed a gap related to the summer break, and we are now just back on track, and the next modelling is coming very soon. Does the modelling change anything, you know, regarding the next step for the province, which will be schools opening with in-person learning? No, I do not think so. Absolutely not.

HM: When, though, can people expect that next modelling? Because that word grim is now hanging out there. And it must be very concerning to many people. Would you consider accelerating the release of the next modelling?

PJ: Look, I'm not in charge of running these models and of compiling them. And what I heard from the co-chair of the modelling consensus table is that they're currently working on it and that they're unable to tell us exactly when they will be ready. They are working on it really on high speed. But remember, it's a volunteer table, and they can only do so much.

HM: I know you can't get inside David Fisman's head, but you have worked with him. Is his sentiment, is his concern that modelling is being withheld, something that... that others on the table are concerned about?

PJ: I really don't think that there's anybody on the table who actually shares this sentiment, but I obviously can't speak for all the members of the table. I simply haven't heard anything.

HM: What is the key message you want Ontarians to hear as we head into the fall?

PJ: Don't panic. I'll take it seriously. We are at the beginning of the fourth wave here, we are dealing with a highly transmissible variant, and we need to address two problems. One is it will be a pandemic of the unvaccinated if it comes to risk of being admitted to the ICU or to the hospital. And the other is that our children below the age of 12 cannot yet be vaccinated. So we need to find a pragmatic way through that without closing everything down again. And we can do that. Continuing to mask will be important. There will most likely be some restrictions necessary that will look like, you know, reverting a bit to step two. And we need to keep an open mind regarding vaccine mandates and vaccine certificates. And we will be able just to make this through this pandemic now. And one of the things, you know, that I would like to... to tell to people out there who are still not fully vaccinated is if you continue to have theoretical concerns about vaccine safety, then you should be much more concerned about the risks associated with COVID. There is no such thing as not being at high risk of infection with the Delta variant once reopening continues to happen.

HM: Dr. Juni, thank you very much for sharing your time and... and your expertise. We appreciate it.

PJ: Thanks a lot for having me.

HM: All right. Goodbye.

PJ: Bye-bye.

CH: Dr. Peter Juni is the scientific director of Ontario's COVID-19 Science Advisory Table. He was in Toronto.

[music: acoustic guitar]

Tails On Ice Doc

CH: Miranda Currie's first film was a bit of an experiment, but it has certainly left an impression. It's called "Tails On Ice", and it's playing at the Cannes Short Film Festival in France this week. It's a 10-minute documentary -- told through the eyes of her sled dog Ellesmere, who is setting out on her first expedition.

SOUNDCLIP

[music: fiddle]

MIRANDA CURRIE: OK, let's go! Straight ahead!

ELLESMERE: I'm still feeling a little anxious. I keep looking back for reassurance. Mom says, if I just keep pace with her, I'll be just fine!

CH: That's from Miranda Currie's documentary "Tails On Ice". Ms. Currie spoke to CBC North about finding out that her debut film had made it to the international stage -- and who she hopes to inspire.

SOUNDCLIP

MC: I just went down the list and was like, what festivals have I ever heard of? [laughing] And I was like, oh, like, Cannes! I've heard of that before! Like, that's in France. OK, yeah, let's apply to that. And, you know, like, I just was like, OK, I made this film, let's see, like, you know, what happens. Yeah, to get the notice from the Cannes Short Film Festival being like you are an official selection. And I was like, what, really?! Like, what?! It feels really cool that an international audience would, and the French, who, you know, [chuckle] some might say have like a good taste or, you know, for art and things like that, that they enjoyed the film. I think as a filmmaker, you just... like, you want to tell your story, and you want to have people enjoy it. And so that was just like, you know, an expression of, like, that. They thought it was worthy of being... of being played in their program. I was really touched by that for sure. As an artist, my... I have a very, like, clear mission statement in my mind, which is: I create authentic Northern Indigenous content that is accessible to children and families. I want young indigenous kids to see themselves in media. And I want them to be like, I can do that! For me, that's super important. And so I was like, OK, how do I take this documentary and make it more kid-friendly? It's not super hard with dogs, but it was like, oh, it totally should be from Ellesmere's perspective and her coming of age story, right?! That was her first expedition that she went on. And she's a character. From the time she was like a puppy puppy, she just had so much personality. I really wanted to showcase a little piece of the North for folks who, you know, might not have the chance to, like, make it up here or... or be familiar at all with sled dog culture. I think sled dog culture sometimes gets a bad rap. And so, in that way, I was nervous about putting a film out about my dogs for sure. But, hopefully, the positive will, in the end, outweigh... outweigh any negatives that... that folks see or whatever. And... and can... and can see that I love my dogs. And that we make a good team. [chuckling]

CH: Miranda Currie speaking with CBC North journalist Chantal Dubuc about her debut short film "Tails On Ice". It's playing at the Cannes Short Film Festival in France this week.

[music: horns!]

Pro-Afghanistan Withdrawal

Guest: Dan Berschinski

CH: As you heard earlier in the show, thousands of Afghans are still outside the airport in Kabul, hoping to be flown to safety. Over the weekend, President Joe Biden said that while the images are heartbreaking, he stands by his decision to pull American troops out of the country. Dan Berschinski agrees. He is a retired U.S. Army Captain who lost both his legs in Afghanistan in 2009. We reached Mr. Berschinski in Atlanta, Georgia.

HM: Mr. Berschinski, why do you think it was time for the U.S. to end its war in Afghanistan?

DAN BERSCHINSKI: Quite simply, I think it has been 19 years too long in the making. I believe that America's objectives in response to the September 11th terror attacks, which were the initial impetus for our action in Afghanistan, those objectives were achieved within the first year of our time in Afghanistan. And everything since then has been basically a waste of effort.

HM: So do you believe once it was known or believed that Osama bin Laden had... had left Afghanistan, that it was time to withdraw?

DB: more or less. It was also at that point in time that we had maximum leverage over the Taliban. The Taliban were not the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11. That was al-Qaeda. But the Taliban were harbouring al-Qaeda. And in order to destroy the terrorist organization, we had to go through the Taliban. And six to 12 months after we first arrived, I believe we could have turned to the Taliban and said we came here to destroy al-Qaeda. We achieved... achieved our objectives. We did not come here to tell you how to run your country. We will leave. But if you harbour terrorists of any kind again, we will come back, and we will carry an even bigger stick. Basically, when we made it obvious that we were going to stay indefinitely, that's when the Taliban, you know, had... had no reason to cut us any slack and had no reason to... to not just hunker down and wait us out.

HM: What do you think, though, when you hear so many Afghans saying that they feel at least the circumstances of this withdrawal have left them feeling abandoned?

DB: Well, it's quite understandable. We spent two decades in that country, and we did make a lot of promises. And I also want to point out that we did make a lot of progress as well. The Afghan people did make a lot of progress. Practically an entire generation of Afghans grew up experiencing, you know, some of the basic human rights and opportunities. The problem ultimately lies with the intractable fact that we were trying to create the style of government and a culture that was somewhat alien to Afghanistan. No one invited us to Afghanistan. We just showed up, started imposing our will, as well intentioned as I believe it was. And there was no foundation for us to build on. So the fact that we could make incremental progress and, you know, temporary progress all over the country, that's no surprise. The problem lies in sustaining that progress and really setting up a national, coherent government that can maintain and sustain that progress on its own without massive, massive outside support from other countries.

HM: What do you make of what you have heard from President Biden as he has defended his decision?

DB: I think the president is in a tremendously difficult position. I am very proud of the decision that he made to finally, in the fourth administration, in the second decade of this war, he finally had the willpower to end a forever war. And he was willing to accept the risk, great risk, to his political reputation.

HM: Should he not have had a better plan to withdraw Americans, not just soldiers, but Americans who have been working in Afghanistan and those thousands of Afghanistan citizens who helped the U.S. government?

DB: Yeah, I think the United States of America and the entire coalition should have had a plan in place for the day whenever it occurred of when we draw down what will we do? Who do we owe assistance to? And the fact that we don't seem to have had a more robust plan that we execute is concerning. That said, I think we're all well aware that no one expected the Afghan government to capitulate and literally flee the country and their... their vast majority of their armed forces to lay down their weapons.

HM: You know, you say clearly you're opposed to the effort at nation-building. But for 20 years, the U.S. has tried to... to facilitate a more modern Afghanistan. And many people have become dependent on... on that and on the vision of the future. Does the Biden administration owe anything to say some of the terrified women we have spoken to who worry about their future?

DB: Yeah, I think we owe something. I'm not entirely sure what that is or where we draw the line. I personally left both of my legs in Afghanistan. I am hopeful that the generation that we allowed and fostered to have a better reality than they would have under Taliban control. I'm hopeful that they can push back against this new version of the Taliban. And maybe the country has a shot at creating something, something that is better on their own.

HM: Given all the losses that you have suffered, do you feel that your service in Afghanistan was worth it?

DB: So on a... on a very personal level, despite the severity of my injuries and my own personal sacrifice, I'm OK with my service. That said, I can also look beyond the individual level and look at the meeting at a national level. And I... as I mentioned before, I do not think that our efforts, as well-intentioned as it was over the span of 19 years, was in the best interests of our country. And so, I think America wasted its efforts in Afghanistan. But I think soldiers... soldiers did not. Soldiers served for their own reasons. And American soldiers and all of our partners can be proud of the progress that they created all around that country.

HM: Dan Berschinski, thank you so much for talking with us today.

DB: Thank you for having me.

CH: Dan Berschinski is a retired U.S. Army Captain who lost both his legs to an IED in Afghanistan in 2009. We reached him in Atlanta, Georgia.

[music: folk]

Barry Man-That-Wind-I’ll-Blow

[music: “Looks Like We Made It by Barry Manilow]

CH: Barry Manilow, with a live version of the triumphant "Looks Like We Made It". Now, at the end of that 1976 concert, Mr. Manilow left the stage. Not because anyone asked him to -- no one asked him to, and no one would -- but because he had finished his performance to the satisfaction of the audience, and himself. That is the only time a showman like Barry Manilow leaves the stage: when he decides he's done. Well, on Saturday, Barry Manilow was part of the lineup at "We Love NYC: The Homecoming Concert" in Central Park. Everyone knew Tropical Storm Henri was approaching, bringing high winds and torrential rain. And in the midst of Mr. Manilow's performance, the bad weather, and an announcement, rudely interrupted.

SOUNDCLIP

[“Can’t Smile Without You” By Barry Manilow]

[a loudspeaker announcement thanks people for their participation. A man says we have a lightning issues]

ANNOUNCER: Please pay close attention to the following safety message.

CH: Now, members of the band immediately head for the wings. The crowd immediately starts to disperse. But in the footage, it looks like Barry Manilow himself stays onstage. Possibly to keep the crowd calm. But possibly because he's baffled. Because he has to stop -- but he's not done. Fortunately, CNN's Anderson Cooper got him on the phone moments later. And Mr. Manilow was able to play part of what was supposed to be his showstopper.

SOUNDCLIP

ANDERSON COOPER: And did you know this was coming? When you were on the stage --

BARRY MANILOW: No, no!

AC: No, you didn't?

BM: No. Well, you know, when I was in the wings, I saw it start to drizzle, but I had no idea it was going this slow.

[Barry begins to sing]

CH: Barry Manilow, speaking with and singing for Anderson Cooper on CNN.

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August 23, 2021 Episode Transcript

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