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[Music]

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: This might be a bit of a broad question, Harv, but have you consumed much media lately? I'm talking TV, movies, the radio, anything.

HARVINDER WADHWA: OK, aside from podcasts, I watch a lot of cricket. Does that count?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: I mean, I don't know if there's much romance in cricket, so I might have to take a roundabout route to my point here.

HARVINDER WADHWA: OK.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: When I've been watching TV lately or just consuming any media, it's a whole lot of this.

[MONTAGE OF MEDIA CLIPS]

CLIP 1: You know, I just always thought I'd be married with kids by now, but I still haven't found the one.

CLIP 2: You've never even had a boyfriend.

CLIP 3: Choose me. Marry me. Let me make you happy.

CLIP 4: My dream wouldn't be complete without you in it.

CLIP 5: We all deserve love. It's the very best part of being alive.

CLIP 6: Because you're double vaxxed, but you're still single AF.

CLIP 7: Matchmaker, matchmaker, make me a match!

CLIP 8: Before you came into my life, I missed you so bad.

CLIP 9: My loneliness is killing me, and I must confess I still believe.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Oh, Elena, I am fully aware I have seen a lot of Bollywood movies. These movies have nothing but romance.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Nice.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So, yes, that's not a surprise for me.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right. We're talking about the question, "Why are you single?" this episode. And it's not just Bollywood, media is obsessed with romance. I think it's not only that, it's that all of these movies and shows and songs make it feel like finding a partner should be the driving force of your life, and that if you're single for a long time, like me, there must be a negative reason for it or something wrong with you. And I hate it. I hate it.

HARVINDER WADHWA: There is nothing personal about this in this episode.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: OK, OK, fine. Leave us alone. This show is produced by a bunch of bitter singles. What's your point? How has singleness been seen in your life?

HARVINDER WADHWA: It is a little bit of a long answer. So the first part is that I'm from India and at that time, in India there was no such thing as dating. And second part was but not to worry, there was always that nagging for singles to get married. But then there was a threshold like the nagging actually, became started becoming obnoxious after you have crossed 30. So I was smart. I got married before I was 30 so I was good.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: You were like, I don't want to deal with this. Let's just not.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Exactly.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: I'm really looking forward to hearing where some of these pressures come from and talking to some other single folks about their experiences with this pressure and, you know, whether they want to be in a relationship or not.

[Music]

SALMA HINDY: My name is Salma Hindy, and I usually say I'm an engineer by day, standup comedian by night. I'm a Muslim woman, visibly Muslim. I come from an immigrant Egyptian family and I get lots, lots of content about being single.

[CLIP] SALMA HINDY: I'm 28 and single, which to my parents means that I'm old enough to be a mother of four, but I'm too young to be allowed to stay out past 10:00 p.m. So I'm an engineer, but I'm still trying to do that math.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: I understand you get asked these questions about being single a lot. Can you tell us about a time you were asked, "Why are you single?"

SALMA HINDY: Oh, my gosh. Well, for starters, by my mom all the time. Actually, the first time I had heard it was when I was younger, also by my mom. I must have been in like undergrad or something. My mom had hopes for me getting married very early on. You know, like the day I hit puberty was the happiest day of her life. So I remember her just kind of being like, why are you single? And then I didn't understand when she was asking it to me. I was like, I don't know, like I don't have a partner. Like, these are the logistical answers. But what she then elaborated and tried to say it was like, you're from a good family, you're educated, you're like, you know, not horrible to look at basically. You must be doing something. And I'm like, What do you mean? And I think she's trying to say, like, you're probably too picky. You're probably driving them away. Like you're doing comedy so you're really turning the right guys off. Or me being, like, sexually promiscuous in secret, which is definitely a fear and a thought that they probably had my whole life. So they think like no guy is going to approach that with a ten foot pole. That's what they think in their minds. Yeah and with families, it's like you're trying to rebel against the marriage institution. My parents really think that they're like "Salma, why do you hate marriage?" I'm like what? Who said that? He's like, you hate marriage, you hate the concept of getting married. I'm like I'm like I actually really want to find a partner. But they're just like, they don't hear that, they hear like, I hate you and everything you stand for.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So, so for the record, only the religious guys are good guys. Just for the record?

SALMA HINDY: Yes. For my mom's record, absolutely.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Oh my gosh.

HARVINDER WADHWA: OK, OK, OK. And God forbid, if he's not Egyptian Muslim?

SALMA HINDY: Oh, he won't. He won't be Absolutely, I can tell you from now, he will not be.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Is that your mom's expectation?

SALMA HINDY: In the religion is a necessity actually like you want to not see it as a valid marriage if it's not in the religion. And my parents are on the very, very, very, very, very conservative religious end of the spectrum. So this is not the norm for like most Muslim families, I felt like for so many amount of years, everyone was bracing themselves for, like, what disappointment is she going to bring home kind of. Now, they're just kind of like, OK, it doesn't seem like there's any point in having hope. Which is a good thing because then they're off your back!

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: True.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Absolutely, absolutely. So your family must have seen divorce or people being unhappy in their marriage, and they must know that marriage is not a be all and end all. I'm just trying to understand the motivations for all this pressure.

SALMA HINDY: Yeah. Interestingly enough, like in the Muslim community, a big part of why you get married is just to start your life, like to move out. I'm not saying there's not a deep connection there, but definitely a lot of times it's because of logistics and convenience and just honestly, like boundary setting with your own family, and it's like a means to achieve your independence a little bit, right? So a lot of my friends got married last year, rendering me almost the only single one left and at least from the ones my mom knows. So how are your married friends? And then immediately I'm like, miserable! You know what? They're miserable because they're in quarantine. And it's like there's already so much adjusting happening with, like, getting married and moving in with someone after marriage. And I told her, like some of the problems that some of them are going through with their in-laws, she just starts chuckling and she's like, you know, this is just the way of life. Like, life is never going to be perfect and nobody's ever going to be happy. And she's like, so it all comes down to duty. Like, you just have to do duty and then you'll be happy in the afterlife, basically. I was like, why? Why can't you be happy in both lives?

HARVINDER WADHWA: So Salma, after hearing this question over and over and over again from your family, did it or does it have impact on you?

SALMA HINDY: It was triggering for a very long time. So I just kind of had to get some space. And just like any time that question was raised or the topic was raised, rather just leave the room, you know what I mean?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right. Fair, very fair.

SALMA HINDY: That was my boundary setting. Like it took me a very long time to get, first of all, move out and get distance like I moved out at 27 and like I feel like only now, early this year at 29 years old, am I actually starting to like sift through my beliefs and values and being like what do I actually believe versus what I inherited. And I remember one time I had just like called off something with this guy that I was seeing that I really, really liked. And then I went into therapy and I was like, oh, I want to text him. I want to text him. And then my therapist was like, what's going on through your mind like when you're saying that? I was like, maybe I was too over demanding. I was too overbearing. She's like, Yeah, keep going. Butcher yourself, I was like, yeah, I'm I'm the only one of my friends who say, gosh, look like what does that say about yourself? I was like, I can't hold on to a relationship. I can't make anything work whatever, whatever, and I don't think I'm going to die alone. And then she's like, OK, she's like, does this sound like anybody's voice that, you know? Yeah, my mom. And then she's like, OK, she's like, I want you to go home and write a letter to your mom. Like the first half of it is you statements like this is what you did, this what you did. This is what you did in the second half is I statements like this is how I feel. This is what it did to me, whatever. And then I was like, how did I come into this session being like, I want to text a boy and leave like I have to write a 50 page letter to my mom?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Such classic therapy. I mean, if I might get kind of therapisty here.

SALMA HINDY: Yeah.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: When you manage to kind of like parse through your mom's voice, what does your own voice say about being single? Like, how do you feel about it? What's your approach to it when you get through that pressure?

SALMA HINDY: I think I love it, to be honest. Like as soon as I moved out, it was just such a huge relief, like it didn't feel like there was this never ending nagging voice where I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm behind on this. Like, I need to make it happen. An outcome obsessed voice, you know, like I remember telling my therapist, like like two and a half years ago, she was like, you're so successful and all these other areas of your life, like comedy and engineering and all these things and your social life. And then I was like, yeah, but I don't care about any of that. Like, the only thing I care about is a relationship and like my route to like a marriage. But then, you know, it took getting into like a really, really heartbreaking relationship for me to kind of realize that in terms of happiness, once again, relationships won't fulfill that. Like if you're actually in a healthy relationship, it's just going to fade into the background. Like it's just going to be another thing that's a fact in your life.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

SALMA HINDY: Like, obviously there's a lot of growth and beauty and like intimate relationships, but it won't be like the be all end all, it won't be your main focus. So but if anything, I actually think that something I need to work on is being like a little bit more proactive in getting out there and dating so that I don't kind of wait for life to happen to me, but more so like, OK, this man is not going to break into my house, I think I'm going to have to go.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah.

SALMA HINDY: It's kind of a numbers game ultimately to meeting as many people as you can and you learn so much about yourself when you meet other people, right?

HARVINDER WADHWA: So do you ever get asked this question while dating?

SALMA HINDY: Yes, I do, actually. I usually get to ask, like, compliment, compliment, compliment, why are you still single?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right? Of course.

SALMA HINDY: First I think I would turn it back on them. Like I would be like, "oh well why don't you answer that question first?"

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah, we're both in this situation for the same reason buddy!.

SALMA HINDY: Exactly! And then I'm like, are you waiting for me to be like, oh yeah well, I'm actually a psychopath, like, well, a serial killer like, what are you waiting for me to say? So I usually answer in a truthful way though. I say, like, you know, I came from a pretty conservative background, so I didn't start dating until I was like 26, 27. And then I would say that also I had a lot of really low self-worth growing up, like I didn't really think that it was, this was something that I deserved or it was like something for me. But yeah, I feel like that usually answers the question, but it's, I don't think it's what they're expecting. Like usually they're expecting me to be like, well, yeah, I'm crazy.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Or I really like what you were saying about letting go of the outcome obsessed voice and realizing that a relationship isn't going to be the thing to make you happy. I think just being a single person in the world, you kind, you know, you look around at your friends who aren't single. You look around at media and stories and you're like, oh, well, apparently being in love is the best thing and relationships are supposed to be the centre of your life. I want to be that person who's OK with being single, you know, but it's hard. Do you have any advice for trying to get to that place?

SALMA HINDY: Honestly, like, I think a really big part of it is having optimism and faith that it will happen but also not being so fixated and obsessed with trying to get into a relationship, because I feel like those people end up missing out on so much beauty and enjoyment in the moment. And like, you know, they prevent themselves from like adventure or spontaneity or friendships or other connections because they're like, no, I'm so focused on this one thing. But yeah, I think an activity that I did, for example, was basically write a list of all of the things that you want to feel when you're with someone. So I'm like, you know, I'm looking to feel heard and understood, to feel special. I'm looking to feel secure. I'm looking to feel respected. I'm not looking to feel anxious, unclear, discarded, you know what I mean? All these horrible things, feelings that a lot of people do feel when dating or in certain relationships. So that's kind of helped centre myself a little bit more in like the dating process, like being like, how do I feel when I'm around this person as opposed to like, what are they thinking? How do they feel about me then? Yeah, you go about it more with, like, a sense of joy and lightness and, you know, as opposed to like this is something that I'm lacking in and it's on my to do list and I have to get there and, you know.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So regardless of who asks is "Why are you single?" an inappropriate question?

SALMA HINDY: I can't imagine a situation where someone asking me, why are you single being a good thing, like I feel like my work manager asked me that or my director, like I would feel personally attacked. If a friend asked me to, I would be like, What do you mean? Immediately I feel gaslit by the question. I feel like the question is putting all the blame on me.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So is there something you'd prefer to be asked instead?

SALMA HINDY: I think a better question would just be like, how is the search for a partner going for you or or how is your romantic life? Because some people might not even be proactively searching for a partner. But, you know, just kind of like I met up with friends, for example, from undergrad and they were like, so are you talking to anyone right now? Like, are you dating anyone? I liked that question a lot better because it's way less confrontational or like it doesn't put the blame on anyone or anything like and you're going to get the same information out of it, which is like I could be like, no, actually, I'm not talking to anyone. I'm just so focused on my work. Whereas "Why are you single?" just implies what is inherently wrong with you that's that's stopping you from being in a relationship. You know, I would argue that like it's more brave to not settle and to essentially know that what you're looking for is out there as opposed to just being too afraid to wait for it. And then suddenly, just so that you don't have to endure these personally attacking questions anymore.

[Music]

My name is Brittany and I'm from Chicago, so I grew up in the Evangelical church and I chose not to date in high school. And so when I went to college, I had a lot of friends who asked me routinely, why don't you have a boyfriend? Why are you single? And I was asking myself that question a lot, too. And I didn't know what to disclose to people because part of the reason was learning that I was gay and not really knowing how to admit that to myself and not being ready to date women. And I also was in a faith crisis. The reason I chose not to date in high school was because I felt that God called me to be "here" and to abstain from dating until I met my future husband. So I don't know why these things even come up, but people talk all the time about like, well, when did you lose your virginity? And like, how long have you been with your boyfriend? Just like these conversational topics, they're innocent enough questions. But when I was wrestling so much with my own identity and understanding parts of myself that I'd never considered before was a very loaded question. And they didn't know how invasive it was. If I could tell another closeted person anything right now who maybe gets this question a lot is that you don't have to be dating anybody to be who you are. You are perfectly valid. And I hope that if partnership is something you want, that you find it. I think having a conversation about what relationships are in your life is a good alternative. It's not very conventional, but I think it's a perfectly lovely question to ask someone like who's in your life right now? Who do you see most often right now? I would feel just very endeared to receive that question.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Go off of some of what we've been talking about with appearance and stuff. What are some misconceptions you find about being ace and/or aro?

YASMIN BENOIT: I mean, there's a lot of them. I always say that like if you're asexual, people think there's something wrong with your body and if you're aromantic, people think there's something wrong with your soul. So for asexual stuff, I usually get like very like biological questions or somewhat psychological questions, like the whole did you get molested thing that comes up a lot, strangely, like that kind of trauma. And I'm like, wow, we just met. And that's an inappropriate question. Or it goes into the well, do you masturbate, blah, blah, blah. And then for, like, the aromantic stuff, it's, you know, so you just don't like any human ever. You have no emotions. You're a psychopath. So you name it, I've heard it. I actually got called Ted Bundy a few weeks back, which was a new one.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Woah, wow!

HARVINDER WADHWA: Ted Bundy!

YASMIN BENOIT: Slightly extreme comparison.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yikes.

YASMIN BENOIT: There's actually no in between. You're either a hopeless romantic or you're a serial killer and that's that. It's weird. I know. I think it just shows like, I don't know, like the strange emphasis that our society places on, like sexual or romantic attraction. And I guess because romantic love is put on like this absolute pedestal as being like the epitome of human connection. So people assume if you don't feel that, if your mind just isn't like interested in that kind of love, then you have like something seriously lacking in your brain.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So because of your orientation on a day to day life, does it hinder you in any way? Because you are not, you are not forming bonds also, you know, eventually your close friends would get married or will have some kind of relationships. So basically, in a nutshell, you don't feel you're missing out on anything?

YASMIN BENOIT: No, no. Fortunately, fortunately not. I feel there are like pros and cons to everything. And I feel like, I feel like I almost have, like, less to worry about because sometimes I see people who are like they're not asexual and not getting laid is stressful for them. And in the process of getting laid and finding someone to be with is stressful. And then finding or not being single is stressful. Finding the relationships stressful, maintaining the relationship is stressful, the breakup is stressful, and then they do it all over again. So I feel like I actually have two very significant less things to worry about, which means I can just focus on like other things that I find fulfilling. And to be honest, platonic relationships tend to last longer because people place less rules on them and less expectations and you can take platonic relationships further. I would be totally happy to like raise a kid or a pug with a friend, and I would get a mortgage with a friend and, you know, that would probably be more practical.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So so Yasmin, this is then what would be an inappropriate and or appropriate question for you?

YASMIN BENOIT: I mean, I guess the appropriate ones are just like, oh, what is it like tell me like I know about your experience really, like what does that mean for you is an appropriate one. Inappropriate ones are. Do you masturbate, can you have an orgasm, did you get molested, are you mentally ill, can you take a pill for that, and are you a serial killer are probably the inappropriate ones.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Oh, my God. So to add this question to either side of that list is asking, "Why are you single?" to someone who's ace and/or aro inappropriate?

YASMIN BENOIT: I just feel like I of all the questions you can ask somebody, that should not be your concern, because not all asexual people are single and, you know, and being aromantic, being single doesn't necessarily mean that you you're lacking something. You can have a bunch of really amazing relationships in your life. So don't worry about the singleness. Think about all the other stuff they probably have going on, which is much more interesting.

HARVINDER WADHWA: We try to propagate, just mind your own bloody business. That's the bottom line.

YASMIN BENOIT: Honestly, I think if there's one thing that telling people you're asexual aromanticn brings out it is a strange curiosity and like a kind of brazenness that they would not have it any other instance. Like that's the only time in my life a complete stranger will ask me about orgasms. And it's like you would not have asked me that if I hadn't have said I was asexual. So I'm often thinking mind your business!

[Music]

JESSICA AYERS: My name is Jessica Ayers and I am located in the panhandle of Florida. so I write a blog called The Singing Widow and I started writing the blog in 2015 which is about a year after I lost my husband. We were married for almost 11 years when he died. We had just had a baby when I lost him. So it was pretty traumatic. For me, being single was particularly strange because I had been with Justin since I was a teenager. So getting back out in the single world was really daunting to me. I did have people wonder why I was single. Typically in the beginning, I just let people believe what they wanted to believe about me because it was too hard for me to open up and to tell the truth. And I also thought to myself, what does it matter? You know, it's none of their business of why I am in this situation I'm in. And there was one story in particular where there was a man I was seeing and I had met him on a dating app. So because I write a lot of stuff online about my life, he had read about my story and what had happened. And it was very strange because he seemed to know why I was single, yet he wanted to ask me why I was single, decided he wanted to take me out on a date just so he could basically get the juicy details of what happened to me. So that was kind of embarrassing and rude and I thought it was really strange. When I decided that I was ready to get back out in the world and to just try to get back to somewhat of a normal life. It was really hard because I really felt judged by many people. My advice for a person who knows a new widow or widower when it comes to their dating life or them just being single, the most you can do to just be supportive of whatever decisions or choices that they make. In all reality, this is their life. It's not yours. And in particular, young widows, you know, they're probably going to want to find love again because who wants to go through the next 30 to 40 years just living in the past and never trying to move on? You know, for me, that's what it would have been. But for some of them, they might never want to remarry. And you might have to be accepting of that as well, because in the end, it's really their life and it's their choices.

[Music]

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Alrighty, I want to take it back to the top for a second.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So we are talking about your vendetta against the media.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yep. And sorry to get back on my soapbox to be here, but outside of just entertainment media, there's lots of other areas that kind of present being coupled is the norm and don't really represent single people. Some places I wouldn't have thought of, like financial advice and taxes.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Financial advice?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Like it's just advice. I mean, like taxes, taxes sure. But OK, OK, OK.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: I mean, we shall see because I'm speaking to Renee Sylvestre-Williams. She's a personal finance journalist who noticed this gap. So she started a newsletter called The Budgette: Building Wealth for One.

[Music]

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: What got you started with The Budgette?

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: You know, how they say, write what you know?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yes.

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: I am single, happily single. I will probably end up being single for most of my life. And there's just, you know, just not enough available out there for single people to run a household or retire. We don't have the same advantages that can come with being partnered. If you kind of paid attention to what's out there, just in terms of the general media that we consume, even a lot of advertising for finance products, still kind of focus on the idea of a couple.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: What were some of those differences that you were noticing that kind of spurred you to look further into this, those differences in financially how people are treated when they're in couples versus single?

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: Well, OK, disclaimer, I am not a financial planner. I also do not do taxes. So if anybody's listening to us, please talk to the experts.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Very fair.

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: When you are partnered up in Canada, taxes are applied to the individuals. So, for example, as a single person and a couple that are earning sort of the same income, let's say the single person's earning like $80,000 and the couples earning $80,000 in total, they would still pay less individual tax because if you split, it is $40,000 each. So that makes sense?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Oh right. Yeah, that makes sense.

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: And then there's things like pension income splitting. If you are coupled up and there's, you know, there's a pension or survivor benefits, I don't have somebody that I can designate that to. Right, I can't designate a good friend. I can't really designate to my brother. But if I was partnered up, I can do that to my partner.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah, for sure. Would you say, you know, both financially and broader, do you think there are systems that discriminate against single people?

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: I would say I don't think it's an intentional discrimination, but it's all about redefining the economic, what an economic unit is. So, for example, a household unit. So say, for example, I want to Golden Girls set up with like five of my best friends and their four cats.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Love that.

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: Why can't we all define ourselves as an economic unit so we can leave, I don't know, our CPP to each other.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Their pension?

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS:Their pension. Yeah. So their Canadian pension plan. Yeah. You know, if a friend of mine wanted to move in with their sibling, why can't they become a recognized household unit and, you know, leave their CPP to each other?

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: So going back a bit, why do you think there is such a lack of financial services and products marketed toward single folks?

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: Oh, that is a broad question. I think it's a combination of many things. I think it's a combination of the role of women. We haven't spent that many decades in the workforce in and of itself.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: It wasn't quite that long ago where women can get their own bank accounts. I mean, we've spent a lot of time as an overall society more focused on the couple and more focused on the family unit, right? And that's been going on far longer than the idea of people choosing to live alone.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Do you think there's any change happening in including single people in things like financial advice and other systems?

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: I think so. I want to say that the attitude towards single people, especially single female identifying people, is changing. Even like when I was growing up, it was changing. There's that removal of the whole oh, you are not partnered up, therefore, something is wrong with you.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: It's still there, but it is changing to an extent. You know, there isn't that sense of pity that used to happen, I want to say 30, 40 years ago. About four years ago when I was in New York, I stayed in the hotel and they had rooms specifically for solo travelers. So it was like one good sized bed. The room wasn't like the size of a double room. And you paid kind of the price of just being a solo traveler, yeah.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: When people ask, why are you single? Is there ever maybe a practical intention behind it? Did people ever ask you this thinking about, you know, can you afford a house or things like that?

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: No, it's never been that. It's never been practical. It's never been pragmatic. What I got asked the question, it kind of revolved around a couple of things. It's why are you single? You're kind of awesome, right, and therefore you deserve to be partnered up. Sometimes there's that undertone, that you've got this, you've got this, you've got this. All you need is this and you are a complete creature.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: And I actually had to tell somebody that I'm like, you know, don't ask me that question.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Tell me more about that time. Who are you who asked that question?

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: It was a friend of mine, an acquaintance. We were out and we were just, you know, chatting as always, having a drink. I think we're grabbing dinner or something. And she's just like, well can I ask you like, why are you single? And I'm like, well, because that's just how it is. She's like, but, you know, you're really cool and you're really awesome and all that stuff. And I'm like, you are insinuating that yeah, I'm really awesome. Therefore it is a waste. I am wasted because I am not being awesome with or for someone else? I'm like I could be awesome for me.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Yeah, totally.

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: And my entire attitude is, if it happens, great. If it doesn't happen also. Great. Yeah, I have friends, I have family. I love both of them. You know, I don't feel like my life is lacking.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Would you say overall this is an inappropriate question to ask somebody?

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: Yes, I would definitely say that if they do not bring it up, don't bring it up. Right. Just don't bring it up.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Is there a way maybe to ask about someone's dating life in a way that's not frustrating or intrusive?

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: Yeah. And again, this is a, you know, obviously unique to the person that you're having the conversation with, like I would say, bring it up in a way that doesn't make them feel less than for not being partnered up.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Right.

RENEE SYLVESTRE-WILLIAMS: Just kind of a classic. Hey, what's going on? How's it going? Were you seeing anybody just kind of like couch it in sort of a whole bunch of several vague questions? I don't think of myself as a single person, you know, obviously outside of the work, because that is something that I am very conscious of and aware. But when I move through the world, I don't think of myself. I am Renee and I am single. I'm saying I'm Renee. Hey, how's it going?

[Music]

KEVY OH: Hi, my name is Kevy Oh and I am from Mississauga, Ontario. When I was single back in the day, I felt like I had to really over perform that I loved being single. It becomes really your identity. When someone asked me that question that "Why are you single?" question, I would immediately throw them every self-help book quote that I got that I read on Instagram that I read and books I would give them like I did basically a TED talk of how to be independent, that you're that you're whole by yourself, that you don't need anyone else but yourself. So basically I try to girlboss my way out of intimacy and you'll find out that that is not the way to go about doing things. Honestly, truly. It was from a place of hurt and pain. And I try to mask that as resilience when really at the like late hours of the night, when you start feeling a little bit more lonely, a little bit more vulnerable, you'll start seeing the cracks. And nobody talks about those cracks because nobody wants to look like they're not independent. When someone asks me today, "Why are you single?" Honestly, I don't find any type of way about it just because once I've been more honest where I'm like, you know, I do need sex, I do need intimate affection, I do need someone to talk to in a romantic sphere. That is something that I'm not super fixated on anymore. I am still single, but now it's truly being like single and free and not just single and waiting for someone to come along.

[Music]

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: Well, I found it very cathartic. It's really nice to hear that a lot of other single folks feel the same pressure as I do, that I'm, you know, not making it up or anything and hearing how they frame it for themselves and how they stay happy in the face of all this pressure and how they work through it was really helpful, I found. So thank you for indulging me.

HARVINDER WADHWA: You are most welcome.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: And now you know what the world looks like outside of marriage a little bit.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Elena, frankly, all this while I thought single people were the luckiest people. Oh, yeah, not anymore. So I will now change it to grass is greener on both sides or grass is dead on both sides. Whichever phrase you prefer.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: The grass is dead on both sides of the fence. So gloomy. I love it.

HARVINDER WADHWA: So let me recap one thing. Yeah. And I want to say it a little loudly.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: OK.

HARVINDER WADHWA: If somebody is single, that does not mean that person is any less awesome. Oh yes. That was specifically said for you.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: I love that. Oh, wow. This is just a really wholesome ending now. Just really sweet.

[Theme]

HARVINDER WADHWA: I'm Harvinder Wadhwa.

HARVINDER WADHWA: Thanks for getting inappropriate with us.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: The sensational singles behind this podcast are Sabrina Bertsch, Cindy Long and myself. The show is mixed by Andrew Norton. Our chase producer is Sarah Melton and our digital producer is Judy Ziyi Gu. Our senior producer is Geoff Turner and our executive producer is Arif Noorani.

ELENA HUDGINS LYLE: An inappropriate question is like shooting your shot at the end of a podcast episode. Hey, if you're single and queer and in your mid-20s I guess. And you like hockey and alt rock from the early 2000s and long walks in the park, hit me up?

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Transcript: Inappropriate Questions Season 3, Episode 8

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