The AIH Transcript For August 16, 2021

[hosts]Helen Mann, Samira Mohyeddin[/hosts]

HELEN MANN: Hello, I'm Helen Mann, sitting in for Carol Off.

SAMIRA MOHYEDDIN: Good evening. I'm Ali Hassan, sitting in for Chris Howden. This is "As It Happens".

[music: theme]

AH: Tonight:

HM: After the fall. The Taliban have taken Kabul — leaving people fearful and desperate for a way out. And an activist in the capital says he has no idea what's next for himself, his family or his country.

SM: Intelligence failure. A retired NATO general says security forces may have had the resources to prevent a Taliban takeover, but they lacked the connections.

HM: Moving heaven and earth. Aid workers in Haiti are doing everything they can to find survivors after a magnitude 7.2 earthquake struck the country over the weekend. But our guest says a looming tropical storm threatens relief efforts.

SM: No vacancy. With the Delta variant surging, more than 10,000 Texans were hospitalized last week alone. And a doctor in Houston says his hospital is struggling to find new COVID beds.

HM: Taking the reins. Almost a century ago, the Canadian government brought a herd of Siberian reindeer to the Northwest Territories. And now, they're officially owned by a group of Inuvialuit herders.

SM: And... nom de plumage. Animal shelters are hoping weird names will help boost adoption rates for the furry and the feathered alike. And an increasingly popular Twitter account has been sharing some of the standouts in the name of posterity.

SM: "As It Happens", the Monday edition. Radio that hopes the shelters welcome constructive critercism.

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Guest: Guest

SM: Kabul has fallen. The Taliban has swept into the Afghan capital, taking over after President Ashraf Ghani fled. It ends a nearly two-decade-long campaign by America and its allies to oust them. With the Taliban in control of Kabul, thousands of Afghans rushed to the airport. Some were so desperate to leave they grabbed onto an American military jet as it took off. Seven people are reported to have died in the chaos. We reached a social activist in Kabul. We are withholding his name because he fears he will be targeted by the Taliban.

HM: Sir, I very much appreciate you talking with us today. The Taliban has taken over Kabul, and no one is quite sure what will happen next. How are you holding up?

GUEST: Well, first of all, thank you, Helen, for having me on your show. The situation in Kabul is totally chaotic, and we are in a crisis and in a vacuum of power after President Ghani -- the former president, Ashraf Ghani -- fled and left the country in such a chaotic situation, although the Taliban had guaranteed his safety. But he still left the country in such a bad situation. So for right now, since there is a vacuum of power, the bazaar and markets everywhere, all the institutes are closed. We are... tend to be at home, especially those who have had a background of social activities, being an activist or journalist and other professions like that.

HM: You describe chaos. Many of us have seen the video images of the scene at the airport in Kabul. Is that the kind of thing that is being reflected in the streets of the city as well?

GUEST: Absolutely, absolutely. I think what we all saw in the airport was a little bit more than what we have in the streets and the roads. So their presence, Taliban's presence, is kind of scary for the people of Kabul, for the residents of Kabul. Because their appearance is totally different than what we have been used to see when it comes to the security forces. They are with big turbans and long beard and kind of dirty clothes. So that is kind of scary for old people and especially for the woman whose rights are at stake. So I can say that almost no woman gets out of their home.

HM: How worried are you about your own personal safety and that of your family?

GUEST: Well, I'm really worried about my own safety and my own family because I've been a social activist for a long time, almost for 10 years. I've been a voice and advocated for the rights of women, for the rights of the children, human rights, freedom of speech. And whenever Taliban violated all these rights, I have been an anti-Taliban voice for a long time. So they tend to have a kind of revenge from the people and especially from the activists. And we have seen the evidences of that in many other provinces such as Kandahar and other provinces.

HM: You say that many people are hunkered down in their homes. We did, of course, as I mentioned, we saw that scene at the airport. What do you know of people's efforts to get out of the country, how desperate they are to... to get out?

GUEST: So they are very much scared of having a life under Taliban's fanatic and extremist group. The group is intending to limit people's life. And when... since Kabul for the last 20 years have been practicing a new democracy. So now it's totally unacceptable for them. And that's why it has created chaos, and they're willing and trying to leave the country. The amount goes to millions. I can say almost everybody when you talk to them almost everybody tries to find a way to flee the country.

HM: Do you yourself hope to leave? Do you... do you see a way out?

GUEST: I absolutely think of leaving the country. Unfortunately, I really love my country, and I would love to work for it. But under the Taliban, if there is going to be a Taliban regime just like '90s, I am definitely thinking to leave because I would not want my family and my sisters and brothers or my mother to live under such strict restrictions.

HM: The British defence minister has said that he foresees a civil war. Do you think that's a possibility?

GUEST: I would not expect and want a civil war for my country since we cannot tolerate and afford a civil war in any means. We should come together and have a political settlement and accept the ground realities. But unfortunately, we have not seen that kind of a sense in the Taliban. The reality on the ground is that politicians would never tend to go to another war. And, of course, the international community also cannot afford to reach out to that war. Because unfortunately, we have been abandoned by the international community. After 20 years of continuous war, they abandoned us and left us in a chaos and a very bad, bad situation, although it could have been much better.

HM: You've said you feel that Afghanistan has been abandoned. Who do you blame for the situation the country finds itself in now?

GUEST: The war in Afghanistan, it has a lot of dimensions. So it wouldn't be easy to blame one group for that. We have had our own shortcomings inside Afghanistan, for which I can blame Ashraf Ghani. And for some reasons, I can blame the whole international community for how they have underestimated Afghanistan. Although Afghanistan and our forces were fighting international terrorism, the terrorism was not only about Afghanistan. For that reason, I would blame the international community, but more than all, America, the United States being a superpower of the world. When they were thinking of withdrawing from Afghanistan and making a deal with the Taliban, they made a deal with the Taliban in Doha. But the deal could have been much better. Had the deal been conditions-based and the conditions were a political settlement and reaching an agreement with the government of Afghanistan, all these elements would have helped Afghanistan towards a much better and stable nation. But unfortunately, America never cared about all these things, which really matters a lot to the people of Afghanistan. The only thing that matters for the Biden administration was their evacuation and their withdrawal.

HM: What do you expect to happen tomorrow and in the coming days?

GUEST: I would expect the Taliban to accept the realities of Afghanistan, the ground realities. They are in Afghanistan, they are controlling Afghanistan, but they also have to accept the real new Afghanistan of 2021. So the Taliban should have a long-term view of Afghanistan. The long-term view of Afghanistan that I see as a young person would be to have a democratic system where the government is responsible to deliver for the people and respect their rights.

HM: Well, sir, I really appreciate you speaking with us. Please know that so many of us are thinking of you and your country people and hoping that some of your vision comes true and that you stay safe.

GUEST: Thank you for the solidarity, Helen. It really means a lot.

HM: All right. Thank you.

SM: That was a social activist in Kabul. We are withholding his name because he fears he could be targeted by the Taliban. You can find that interview on our website at: www.cbc.ca/aih. And this is part of what U.S. President Joe Biden had to say this afternoon.

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JOE BIDEN: I stand squarely behind my decision. After 20 years, I've learned the hard way that there was never a good time to withdraw U.S. forces. That's why we're still there. We were clear-eyed about the risk. We planned for every contingency. But I always promised the American people that I would be straight with you. The truth is this did unfold more quickly than we had anticipated. So what's happened? Afghanistan political leaders gave up and fled the country. The Afghan military collapsed. Sometimes without trying to fight. If anything, the developments of the past week reinforce that ending U.S. military involvement in Afghanistan now was the right decision. American troops cannot and should not be fighting in a war and dying in a war that Afghan forces are not willing to fight for themselves. As we carry out this departure, we have made it clear to the Taliban if they attack our personnel or disrupt our operation, the U.S. presence will be swift. And the response will be swift and forceful. We will defend our people with devastating force if necessary. Our current military mission, we shortened time, limited both scope, and focussed on its objectives, get our people and our allies as safely, as quickly as possible. And once we have completed this mission. We will conclude our military withdrawal. Will end America's longest war. After 20 long years of bloodshed, the events we're seeing now are sadly proof that no amount of military force would ever deliver a stable, united, secure Afghanistan.

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SM: U.S. President Joe Biden. For more on the situation in Afghanistan, tune in to "The Current" tomorrow.

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Guest: Cara Buck

SM: People in Haiti are once again digging through the rubble. On Saturday, a 7.2 magnitude earthquake hit the country's southwest region, destroying thousands of homes and buildings. Rescue efforts are currently underway. As we go on air, nearly 1,300 people have died, and close to 6,000 are injured. Cara Buck is the Acting Country Director for the humanitarian NGO Mercy Corps in Haiti. We reached her in Port-au-Prince.

HM: Cara, what was it like for you when the earthquake hit?

CARA BUCK: You know, saturday morning, kind of jolted out of bed. And, you know, it just felt like the building was on... was on water. You could feel the waves. So, you know, I'm in Port-au-Prince, 100 miles away from the epicentre, so you can really imagine what the team there might have been experiencing at that time.

HM: How powerful was it compared to previous earthquakes there?

CB: So there's a difference between this earthquake and the previous one, you know, in 2010. This earthquake was not as deep as the other one, right? But the epicentre was more of a rural area. So the destruction has been different, making it even more challenging in some ways.

HM: Mm-hmm. And have there been aftershocks?

CB: There were a number of aftershocks. You know, and for a team that has experienced this many times, you know, really traumatic, it's really difficult for the teams to experience this over, you know, time and time again. We had aftershocks throughout the day on Saturday. There are approximately 15 aftershocks that have seemed to settle down in the… in the last 36 hours.

HM: So what kind of damage do you see around Port-Au-Prince?

CB: Sure. So in Port-au-Prince, we're not saying... we don't have reports of damage in the city. Again, the epicentre of this earthquake was in the southwestern peninsula of Haiti, epicentre where we have a team of 19, where we see an extraordinary amount of... of homes that have been destroyed. We're getting reports of injured family members, destroyed homes, destroyed markets, bridges. Roads have been damaged, impassable. So, you know, there's a lot of damage and a lot of people that are needing support urgently.

HM: I understand it's not just the damage from the original quake itself or even the aftershocks, but there have been landslides as well?

CB: Absolutely, landslides. And in this area near the epicentre, you know, as I mentioned, fairly rural area, a lot of the structures are built from mud blocks. So, you know, making them even more susceptible to... to something like an earthquake. the upcoming or the, you know, pending tropical depression Grace certainly will not make this easier. Any amount of rain could certainly make this response more challenging.

HM: Umm-hmm. What are the biggest challenges that people are facing around the epicentre right now?

CB: People are on the streets. A lot in agony, a lot, you know, injured. Really, we're... we're assessing what the needs are, right? So is it... is it clean water? Is it food that's most needed? You know, is it shelter? And certainly, with the looming storm, we could anticipate that shelter would be among, certainly, one of the top priorities in addition to the, you know, search and rescue efforts.

HM: So how is aid getting into these areas? What are the plans to get more there?

CB: We're 48 hours into the response at the moment. And, of course, that... that first, you know, 24, 36, 48 hours, there's a lot of assessing what the critical needs are, sharing information, you know, getting people there. Logistically, it's extremely difficult to get to the epicentre. One land route out of Port-au-Prince, you know, that's highly insecure. We have passage at the moment. You know, we have humanitarian safe passage. We don't know how long that will hold. There's also one airport going in and out. You know, we have some NGOs also looking at potential ways in which to reach the site by boat. So these are all, you know, logistical issues that we're facing. Mercy Corps, we've been partnering with the government of Canada for years in Haiti. We're incredibly grateful for their support of our work and the people of Haiti. We're just really trying to understand the most critical needs and ensure that when money does come in when those funds are available, we're ensuring a coordinated effort, and we are understanding the needs to... to address these as efficiently and as effectively as possible.

HM: Earlier today, I saw about 5,700 people estimated as injured. Is there an effort to get any of them out of the area for better medical care? Are they getting the kind of supports that they need?

CB: Absolutely. We do have, you know, information coming in that certainly as this area is quite rural, the, you know, hospitals and clinics in the surrounding areas are... are over capacitated. There are many people, not enough services. So, again, we're still assessing the the acute needs, but we can definitely anticipate, you know, if need be trying to transport them out of the area and bringing them to PAP. Or alternatively, you know, increasing the number of medical professionals in and around the epicentre of the quake.

HM: I've seen suggestions that Haiti is better equipped for emergencies than it was, say, back in 2010 with that... that massive quake then. What is your sense of the government's level of preparedness for dealing with disasters like this?

CB: Sure. I think... I think it's a... it's a great question. And I think a lot of us are working through that. You know, in the past three months alone, we've seen a presidential assassination. We've seen increasing COVID cases with the Delta variant. We have storm warnings. Obviously, the most recent emergency with the earthquake. This is all in addition to underlying food insecurity, poverty, you know, communities that are hungry. So we're just really trying to ensure that we are able to assess... assess the needs and get them what they need as timely as possible.

HM: Cara, thank you for taking time to speak with us in the midst of all of this. I thank you very much. And I wish you great success in helping folks.

CB: Thanks for the interest in Mercy Corps. Thank you very much.

HM: All right. Bye-bye.

CB: Bye-bye.

SM: Cara Buck is the Acting Country Director for the humanitarian NGO Mercy Corps in Haiti. For more on this story, visit our webpage at: www.cbc.ca/aih.

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Guest: Duane Ningaqsiq Smith

SM: It's a herd that first originated in Russia. But now, more than 2,000 reindeers exclusively belong to the Inuvialuit. More than a century ago, herders brought thousands of reindeer from Siberia to Alaska. The journey was a complicated feat: They were taken to Norway, then New York City by way of steamship, then to Seattle on a train, and then to Alaska by ship once more. As if that journey wasn't enough: in the 1930s, the Canadian government authorized the herd to move east -- from Alaska to the Mackenzie River in the Northwest Territories. And that's where they've been ever since. And while the Inuit in the Canadian Western Arctic have long informally managed the herd, now they officially own it. Duane Ningaqsiq Smith is the CEO and Chair of the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation. We reached him in Inuvik.

HM: Duane, what does it mean for the Inuvialuit to officially be able to own and manage this reindeer herd?

DUANE NIGAQSSIQ SMITH: It's a long time in coming, I would say. We've been involved with it ever since they've been in the region. And it's important for the Inuvialuit to take control of it so that we can start to develop a strategy to ensure that we have some food security and sovereignty. Because we're seeing how climate change is having an effect on different species that we rely on. And so there's a consistent food source that's good for our diet as well as our culture.

HM: These reindeer came to you from Alaska, but they're originally from Siberia, is that right?

DNS: That's my understanding as well.

HM: And that's quite some long time ago, though?

DNS: Yeah, about 100, 150 years ago.

HM: So why did the Canadian government want this reindeer herd back then?

DNS: Well, they were coming to visit the different Indigenous groups. They met with their leadership at that time, wanting to sign a treaty. We... the leadership at that time declined and suggested that we would rather have a stable food source and time again because the caribou populations, as they are now, have declined in numbers. And so that was one of the reasons.

HM: And this… the journey from Alaska to the Mackenzie River, that was back in the 1930s. It took a long time, right?

DNS: Yeah, it took much longer than they expected. I guess they underestimated the terrain that they would be travelling over through the five-year trek.

HM: Five years! And how did they drive the herd to the Mackenzie River?

DNS: Walking and skiing and nudging them along.

HM: Do you know how big the herd would have been at that time?

DNS: It was estimated to be around 3,400.

HM: So this is a family tradition for you, as I understand it, to manage this reindeer herd. Can you tell me about that legacy?

DNS: My great grandfather was the second Indigenous person to own a herd. Government at the time was trying to get the Inuvialuit interested in managing small reindeer populations. So he tried it out. Unfortunately, where they were, there was an accident. Quite a number of people perished when their ship got caught in a storm. And they decided to return the herd to the government at that time because a lot of the herd got lost. And my... my granddad, who was also involved in it also was the operations at Reindeer Station, a small community, was established on the east channel of the Mackenzie Delta, where they would corral up the reindeer and butcher a certain number of them, store them in the permafrost, which is a natural freezer. They dug a large cavern into that where they would store the meats until it was sent coincidentally to the residential schools in Aklavik.

HM: Wow, quite, quite a history. Can you tell me what it means to you to be carrying on this tradition that your great grandfather helped start?

DNS: Since we've been involved with it for so long, I see the importance of… and the value of it. Not only for a consistent source of nutrition but also the history that it's had with the people around here. There's been a lot of families and households that have also been involved. But when I was also the chair of the local community corp here, we fixed up Reindeer Station so that it's got facilities out there to provide different on the land programs for health and mental wellness, youth programs, elder programs. So that site is still being used today. And that history of the area continues to pass on.

HM: You mentioned food security. But, you know, in broader terms, what kind of a difference is this going to make in the lives of the Inuvialuit to have this reindeer herd?

DNS: I mean, it's not going to meet all the needs, but it's going to at least alleviate some of those that can't get out to get food sources for themselves. But it'll also create some employment and different opportunities. We have a food processing facility as well. So we'll be running a training facility for that in the next month.

HM: How big is the herd now?

DNS: What I'm told from our herders, it's anywhere between 2,600 to 3,000... 2,600.

HM: Any plans to try and grow the herd?

DNS: That's part of the intent. But to do it slowly. As I said, we want to make it to a stage where we think we can still contain them but not make it too big. We've brought over Sámi reindeer herders about 12 years ago, where they've given us some advice. The herd is big. We could split it up into different portions if we had more herders. We'll continue to maintain that communication with them to give us more advice as we move forward.

HM: Excuse me for being ignorant. Would that be Sámi... would they come from Finland or Greenland? Where would they be coming from?

DNS: They came from Norway.

HM: Norway. OK.

DNS: In my previous role as the Inuit Circumpolar Council president, I would know a lot of the Sámi by being at the Arctic Council meetings. So we've developed that communication and relationship. As well as going... going to the United Nations Permanent Forum on Indigenous Peoples.

HM: Where do you think you'll be digging into your first meal from the herd?

DNS: Hopefully, in a month when they have this course. We have a professional that's coming up to... from Ontario, coincidentally, to hold this course with us, so.

HM: Well, hope you have a good feast. And, Dwayne, thank you for talking to us. Appreciate it.

DNS: Yeah, thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. It's just another part of Canada's cultural diversity, so it's good to let people know this is another unique part of what makes up Canada.

HM: And it's fascinating to hear about it. Thank you.

DNS: Yeah, thank you.

SM: Duane Ningaqsiq Smith is the CEO and Chair of the Inuvialuit Regional Corporation. We reached him in Inuvik.

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Guest: David Fraser

SM: The Taliban have taken over. As we heard earlier in the program, thousands of Afghans are fleeing Kabul, a day after the Taliban seized the capital city and marked their return to power after 20 years of fighting. It was an outcome that veterans of the war feared. That includes retired Canadian Major-General David Fraser. He commanded thousands of NATO troops in southern Afghanistan and led Operation Medusa, a two-week battle against Taliban insurgents in the mountains of Kandahar Province. We reached Major-General Fraser in Kingston, Ontario.

HM: Major-General Fraser, tell me what you are thinking and feeling as you watch what is happening in Kabul today?

DAVID FRASER: Well, my heart goes out to the people that we're trying to help. There's about 800 to 1000 stuck in Kabul now who work for us that, you know, we couldn't have done what we did without them. And now, my question is, how are we going to get them out? And we're asking the government that.

HM: Did you expect the takeover by the Taliban of the capital to happen so quickly?

DF: No, I don't think any one of us thought, you know, it just... the speed is unprecedented. The manner in which they did it was skilful in the sense that they went to who had the moral authority, and that was the tribes and the tribal elders, whereas the government had the resources, but they didn't have a connection with the tribes. And hence, the country fell astronomically fast because of what the Taliban did.

HM: So is this an intelligence failure that... that this came as such a surprise?

DF: I think the international community probably were tracking the wrong things. They were tracking the numbers of trained policemen, soldiers, the equipment, how much training they had, but didn't count on the cultural sensitivity and the... and the will and the quality of the leadership.

HM: Now, you've been working for weeks trying to get Afghans who supported the Canadian military during the war into Kabul to be evacuated. What are you hearing now from people who are trying to get out of the country?

DF: It's dire. And we've been getting audio messages, e-mails in the last few days, and each one is just becoming more and more critical. And right now, I mean, I just... I'm just sickened by the thought of them being stuck there hiding. And even veterans who are working on the ground there with essentially no way out right now because we don't know what the plan is from the government.

HM: You say no way out. What do you think could be done to help them now?

DF: If the government would, first of all, announce that there will be a plan to give these people some hope. And then, you know, working with the United States, which seems to have the resources on the ground and the capability to fly in and out. If we worked underneath their umbrella, I think that is probably one of the options that we have. And the other thing is internationally working with the Taliban to say let's incentivize them for not shutting everything down and allowing people to get out who want to get out, and then they can run the country, but in a more moderate way than what they've been known to do in the past.

HM: Talking with the Taliban has been unpopular politically for some years among some sectors of... of this country and in the United States as well. Do you think that that's been part of the problem?

DF: I think so. Whether we like it or not, there are two parties that have to reconcile what their differences are. And that was the Afghan government and the Taliban. And much like what's happened in Northern Ireland, where, you know, the IRA under Sinn Fein became legitimized, it did resolve and reduce the violence. And it took the debate off the streets and put it into... into a House of Commons, which is I think, you know, where this has to get to. And both sides have got to accommodate somehow so they can debate it and not fight over it with Kalashnikovs and IEDs.

HM: Mm-hmm. We've known for months that the Biden administration had planned a full withdrawal from Afghanistan. What do you make of the fact that Canada is now scrambling to get these many people to safety?

DF: Well, I think Canada was part of the same sort of omission that the rest of the world, including the United States, didn't see this coming as fast as it did. It hit everybody by surprise. And the United States, who pulled out all their people, took away the hope from the Afghan security forces, which may be in one part why they didn't fight. But they've thrown 5,000, maybe now 6,000 people in there today to help get their Afghans out. And this is where we need to start applying our resources and our efforts before it's too late.

HM: You mentioned there are 800 to 1,000 people who helped the Canadians in Afghanistan who are now stuck in the country. Do you know people personally who are among them?

DF: I do. I mean, I've read a number of messages from former generals and from people that, you know, worked with us. And it's... it's shattering. It really is shattering when you get an email saying, you know, even this morning saying, please help, help me. And you do everything you can to do that. And the particular group that is troublesome for me is that we provided a lot of education to girls and women and got them into... into politics and into business and what's going to happen to them.

HM: What do you say to them? Do you reply to these emails?

DF: Every one. Every one.

HM: Can you share anything of what you're saying?

DF: I tell them I will do what I can. I take their names. I pass them on to the right authorities. And just ask them to stay in contact. And I keep pushing. And quite frankly, talking to the media to say... you know, asking the government what is the plan to get... help these people? There's a number of us out here starting way back when we sent the ministers and a letter from the three retired generals just saying, let's just be Canadian and help. Let's do what Canadians are always going for, and let's work together internationally to get these innocent people out of the country who want to come out and try to ameliorate a really dire situation.

HM: Well, while you're thinking of these Afghan people that you know and that, you know, supported Canada, you also were someone who commanded thousands of troops in southern Afghanistan. Is there anyone, in particular, you're thinking about in the Canadian military, when you see what's unfolding?

DF: You know, I'm thinking about 40,000 Canadians and 158 families who lost loved ones. And to say to them, I'm proud of each and every one of you. I'm proud of you for doing what your government asked you to do. You were there to buy time and to provide some hope. And you moved the milestones. You provided some progress. And to all those Canadians who lined the Highway of Heroes and all the Canadians who supported us over there, thank you. I'm thinking about everybody. We're all in this collectively together. Whether you served there or not, there is an emotional connexion from the locally employed civilian, the interpreter, the average Afghan, all the way back to everybody in this country. It's heart-wrenching just to see this happen and be this far away and not being able to do anything directly.

HM: You have said that you've asked yourself, was it worth it, the sacrifices that many Canadian soldiers made in Afghanistan? I'm wondering how you are answering that question today, how you're processing that as... as you see what's unfolding?

DF: We tried. We gave it our best shot. You know this is a politician sent us there. But it was the... the blood, sweat and tears of those men and women who threw everything they had at it. And I couldn't let them down. And I gave them everything I could. So we worked together to try to make it a little bit better than what it was when we got there. And we did what we were asked to do.

HM: I know that many of the veterans have been supporting the safe houses in Afghanistan in Kabul to try and help get these folks who helped out. Is there something you want other Canadians to know about this? Anything that they can do as well?

DF: Just ask their Member of Parliament what's the plan to help these people get... get to this country?

HM: Major-General Fraser, thank you very much. I hear the emotion in your voice. I know this is something you're really committed to. I appreciate you talking to us today.

DF: Thank you very much.

HM: OK, bye-bye.

DF: Bye.

SM: Retired Canadian Major-General David Fraser commanded thousands of NATO troops in southern Afghanistan. We reached him in Kingston, Ontario.

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SM: In Washington, Asian giant hornets have emerged for the first time this season. They're more commonly known by their bone-chilling nickname: "murder hornets" because of their tendency to kill honey bees. The Washington State Department of Agriculture confirmed sightings last week in Blaine, Washington, which is just over the border from Surrey, B.C. They're saying that the hornets are exhibiting the same behaviour they saw last year, attacking paper wasp nests. Carol spoke with an entymologist in last November when they destroyed a so-called "murder hornet" nest just in time -- after finding dozens of future queens. Chris Looney is a scientist with the Washington State Department of Agriculture. Here is part of that interview, From Our Archives.

CO: Chris, do you think of anything other than murder hornets these days?

CHRIS LOONEY: [chuckle] I do, but it takes work. I have been dreaming about these little crazy things for months now, chasing them, being chased by them, having them crawl around in my house. Yeah, it's time to move on to a different animal.

CO: [chuckling] But now people have been awaiting your report on this. What have you learned about these creatures?

CL: I think we learned, preliminarily, that they were more than capable of establishing a nest. The nest looks like it was on the normal trajectory for the species and that it was about to start dispersing lots of new queens who hopefully, from their perspective, would mate, overwinter and then establish new nests next year. And then the maybe the surprising thing we learned, although not, you know, unexpected, but it was a little bit unexpected, was that there were nesting in a tree. We were really hoping they would be in the ground because that's much less complicated. But going back to the literature, about 20 per cent of the time, they might be in trees. So, you know, there you go.

CO: And how many queens did you find?

CL: There were 76 living queens crawling around in that nest. And then there were another 108 pupae. And it seems like almost all of them were queens as well. So potentially up to 200 queens dispersing from there.

CO: And what is so troubling about these particular hornets?

CL: The most immediately troubling thing is that we know that they are honeybee pests. They are predators of honeybees. And given the right circumstances, they can completely obliterate a beehive relatively quickly. We don't know what the other ramifications they might have for our ecosystems. We don't know if they would turn out to be an invasive species that would change the way ecology functions here. It's really hard to predict that. And the safest bet is to simply do our best to keep them from establishing.

CO: But given that honeybees are already struggling for many reasons, some of which we don't know, this is pretty serious for that species, isn't it?

CL: Potentially, right? Yeah, why add one more thing for honeybee keepers to deal with? You know, they probably won't rise to the level of environmental pollution or parasitic mites or pathogens. But, you know, we could be wrong. They could just go to town and feast like crazy on the relatively large apiaries we have in a lot of North America.

CO: How difficult is it to actually find these nests?

CL: That was really challenging. It probably was the most challenging part of this entire process. In both British Columbia and Washington state, we are not confident that we have tools that are really good at detecting them at low densities. So we've saturated the landscape with traps, but the traps are essentially mimosas hanging in a tree. There's probably lots of other things that could attract the hornets. We relied on public reports and that's what actually led to this. But that was just the first step of actually finding a hornet. Next, we have to figure out where does that hornet live? This is an animal that can forage easily eight kilometres. That's pretty far to run across the ground after a thing. So we used these radio tags and it turned out that they worked, but it was touch and go until we were positive.

CO: Huh, well, we spoke with a British Columbia top beekeeper, who said that these hornets are getting a bum rap by being called murder hornets, that they really were not likely to kill people, that that's something that is being exaggerated. Would you agree with him?

CL: Yeah, he is absolutely right. The risk is real for people that are allergic or people that are unlucky enough to fall into a nest and have angry hornets sting them before they can get away. But for the vast majority of us, we will never have to worry about that.

CO: Huh, well, we spoke with a British Columbia top beekeeper, who said that these hornets are getting a bum rap by being called murder hornets, that they really were not likely to kill people, that that's something that is being exaggerated. Would you agree with him?

CL: Yeah, he is absolutely right. The risk is real for people that are allergic or people that are unlucky enough to fall into a nest and have angry hornets sting them before they can get away. But for the vast majority of us, we will never have to worry about that.

[/sc]

SM: Chris Looney is a scientist with the Washington State Department of Agriculture. He spoke to Carol last November from Olympia, Washington.

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Guest: Ben Saldaña

SM: Hospitals in Texas continue to be flooded with new patients as the Delta variant rips through the state. Texas is bringing in 2,500 healthcare workers from outside the state to help. Meanwhile, hospitals are suspending elective procedures, and some are setting up overflow tents to handle the surge in COVID-19 patients. Dr. Ben Saldaña is an emergency room physician and the medical director of Houston Methodist Emergency Care Centers. We reached him in Houston, Texas.

HM: Dr. Saldaña. What does it look like at your hospital today?

BEN SALDANA: You know, like it has been the past couple of weeks, our volume is increasing. That's, of course, the COVID infection volume and our regular emergency care volume. Every nook and cranny is full. Lots of patients on oxygen, on apparatuses like Airvo and BiPAP to increase their oxygenation.

HM: I understand some hospitals in the state have actually gone so far as to set up tents on the hospital grounds to handle the overflow. Do you foresee that happening at your hospital?

BS: We have 18 E.R.s -- seven of those are hospital-based E.R.s. We currently have one that's setting up a tent at this point.

HM: Tell me about the patients that are coming into your emergency room with COVID-19?

BS: Over the past few weeks, this fourth surge is quite different from the first two. The first two were older patients, severely ill. Unfortunately, as the infections ramp up over each surge, there's a new opportunity every time there's an infection to increase variance. So now we know Delta is much more prevalent. It's easier to spread. And so this fourth surge has a very young population. Forty-two per cent of all of our admissions are now 25 to 50, and many of those require hospitalization. The more full the hospital and the E.R. is, the less availability that the community has for regular emergency sepsis, stroke, heart attack and emergent surgery.

HM: We hear everywhere that... that hospitals are mainly seeing people show up with COVID who are unvaccinated or partially vaccinated. Is that what you're seeing as well?

BS: We are. You know, it's upwards in the 80s in terms of per cent of COVID that is unvaccinated. And then the others are patients that are immunocompromised and were vaccinated probably 200 days ago. So there obviously is some need to start giving booster's. I think the important thing for all of us to communicate, I think, to patients is that the mask is really important, right? We saw not a lot of pediatric virus last fall, not a lot of flu. And that's simply because we had a mask, not because we were vaccinated for COVID. What we know about the vaccination for COVID that's really important for everybody to understand is that number one, it's effective. It decreases the severity of the progression. That progression requires hospitalization. And so that's... those are the two things we need each of us to do for each other is wear a mask whether you are vaccinated or not, and get the vaccine so we can have our hospitals and E.R.s available to us when we need them.

HM: And yet, you are in a state where the governor is very directly opposing mask mandates. And, in fact, even taking to court some communities and cities that are wanting to... to do those mandates. What do you think is happening there?

BS: I think we all have to kind of take a step back and look at where messages come from. And I say that because there are folks that are not supporting their community by encouraging masking and supporting the COVID vaccination. Yet, those are the same people that were in line on day one to get their vaccination and are now pushing for a monoclonal infusion. And it is ironic that people are now emergently seeking monoclonal infusion once they've contracted the COVID virus, when it's always better to prevent an infection than chase after its treatment.

HM: What conversations are you having with unvaccinated patients who show up or even those who say that they weren't wearing masks because they did oppose them for reasons of individual rights or because they didn't think that they were going to be helpful?

BS: Those are the conversations we're having with every single person. I think it's for 18 months something that we have to do to make sure people understand the importance of getting the vaccine and making sure that they understand the real information and try and not follow the misinformation that they're fed through social media.

HM: So is there anyone or anything in particular that you blame for this surge?

BS: You know, the patients that come in now that are infected, that were not vaccinated, a large majority of them are feeling shamed or embarrassed. They shrink their head down. And I know -- most physicians know -- that, you know, people don't follow with browbeating and discouragement. It's actually caring for someone and encouraging them. So, you know, I always embrace that patient and say, listen, you're in the right spot. We've got the tools to take care of you. But do me a favour, at this moment, pick up your phone and call everyone you have in your contact list and let them know what you're feeling right now and how it is important that you feel like you may have been able to prevent that for yourself.

HM: Is it hard to stay positive right now? I wonder how you and your colleagues are managing with this happening not only at your hospital but across the state at the same time the vaccines are so widely available to everyone but children?

BS: Yeah, I think that E.R. folks are resilient, we're persistent, we definitely expand and contract our units, we're fairly agile people. I think just the community in the E.R. encouraging each other, kind of keeping a keen eye out to see how fatigued another person is to kind of keep their spirits up and really just to talk about our experience. Storytelling is really important. So, you know, doing interviews like this is helpful for me personally. And I think our docs talking to patients and sharing stories in an encouraging way has... has been helpful for them as well. The community has been great around trying to help thank us by feeding, by sending letters. And every single time, our staff just says, you know what? Do two things, wear a mask and get a vaccine. And that's all the thanks we need.

HM: What do you think it will take to get this current crisis under control? And how long might that take?

BS: You know, I'm encouraged this last week here locally, one-by-one, there are, for instance, school boards that have decided we will ask our students to mask. People are making some decisions for their institution, their business, their educational platform to make sure that they are doing what we all know is the right thing to do and follow the CDC guidance as it evolves. So that, to me, is hopeful.

HM: Well, Dr. Saldaña, thank you very much for speaking with us. I wish you the very best in dealing with all of this. And... and I guess thank you to you and your colleagues for all the work you do.

BS: Thanks for having me.

HM: OK, bye-bye.

SM: Dr. Ben Saldaña is an emergency room physician and the medical director of Houston Methodist Emergency Care Centers. We reached him in Houston, Texas.

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SM: Move over Fido, Rex and Lassie. There's a new dog in town. And its name is Dumptruck. Dumptruck is a chestnut bullmastiff from Texas -- and one of a growing number of animals whose keepers are hoping mystifying monikers will help tip the scales for prospective pet parents. Shelters that enjoyed a pandemic-spurred boom in adoption rates last year say they're now contending with overcrowding. But renaming animals has helped. And the Twitter account @petfindernames has kindly chronicled some of the more avant-garde appellations -- in an effort that's been noticed by the Washington Post and hopefully lots of would-be adopters. If the feed is any indication, there's apparently no wrong way to name a dog. Including naming them Wrong Way. I mean, whoa! Oh no, sorry, Whoa is a cat. Also up for adoption. And while seeing adorable kittens called things like Skull Crusher" and "Nemisis" gives us mixed felines, we really can't argue with the logic of naming a horse Unbridled Justice. Particularly if it's all in the name of finding it a loving new home. As a spokesperson for the Nebraska Humane Society put it, quote, "If you see Mr. Wigglebottoms the dog, I think you're more likely to stop on him for a second than if the dog's name was Craig." Unquote. Mind you, they've also got 40 Dogs Named Tyler. On no. Pardon me. That's just one dog's name.