The AIH Transcript For August 12, 2021

[hosts]Nil Köksal, Ali Hassan[/hosts]

NIL KOKSAL: Hello, I'm Nil Köksal, sitting in for Carol Off.

ALI HASSAN: Good evening. I'm Ali Hassan, sitting in for Chris Howden. This is "As It Happens".

[music: theme]

AH: Tonight:

NK: Abandoned and at a loss. A former Afghan MP describes the chaos and danger -- as the Taliban gains ground -- and families are forced to sleep in the streets of Kabul. She fears women and girls will face the brunt of the escalating violence.

AH: Overkill. A wildlife researcher in Wisconsin says fur will fly unless the state rethinks its decision to more than double its wolf-hunting quota -- against the recommendations of its own biologists.

NK: Pacing herself. The mayor of Topeka, Kansas knows the fight against COVID-19 is far from over -- partly because her own diagnosis means she now needs a pacemaker.

AH: Brush strokes of genius. One of Garry Neill Kennedy's longtime friends tells us how the late artist put the Nova Scotia College of Art and Design on the map. And he says there was nothing provincial about Mr. Kennedy's approach.

NK: Punching the airwaves. We revisit our interview with radio producer and fist-pumper Ray Slater about why he pumped his fist for more than seventeen hours straight.

AH: And… inside scoop. A helicopter pilot was charged with dangerous operation of an aircraft after landing in the parking lot so a passenger could pick up an ice cream cake. Now, he's been soft-served.

NK: "As It Happens", the Thursday edition. Radio that suspects he's looking at a rocky road.

[music: theme]

Guest: Fawzia Koofi

AH: In Afghanistan, Taliban forces have now taken control of the country's second-largest city, Kandahar, as well as the city of Harat and Ghazni, a strategic provincial provincial capital near Kabul. The escalating violence is causing thousands of people to flee their homes, many of them seeking refuge in Kabul. Fawzia Koofi is a former Afghan member of parliament. She's also a member of Afghanistan's peace negotiation team and a women's rights activist. Today she visited a park outside Kabul, where hundreds of displaced people are seeking refuge. We reached her in Kabul.

NK: Ms. Koofi, you were just as... at a camp, as I understand it, what are you seeing there?

FAWZIA KOOFI: Well, due to the ongoing fighting in north and northeast, a lot of families had to leave their villages and their communities. And they were in search of a safer place. They actually came to Kabul in the last few days. They were in the parks, in the streets, they were basically all over Kabul with their families, younger girls, you know, boys, women that were really not well, some of them. Some of them just delivered a baby. So very, very careless situation. People in desperate need of help.

NK: People are in the streets, not... there's no one to help them, it sounds like?

FK: They're... people are in the streets, in the parks. The government, with the support of some private sectors, now started to move them to some buildings which are, like, under construction or incomplete buildings, which do not have even facilities such as hygiene facilities or water. Some of them were moved to these buildings under construction, but most of them are still in the parks and in the street. They basically sleep in the parks. There is no tents, nothing. It's very horrible situation, unfortunately. And it makes it difficult for everyone, especially for women and girls, because can you imagine if a woman does not have a place to use as a washroom for the whole day? And then, in the evening, she waits to go. It becomes darker, and then she goes out and, you know, just somewhere. And some of these women have special needs. They need special considerations. They were able to share those special needs with me. They have nothing. They... they're psychologically affected, horrified, and left their houses in the midst of war. Their houses were destroyed by rocket launches, by fighting. Yes, it's a very, very bad situation, unfortunately.

NK: You asked if we could imagine. No, we can't imagine. And you paint really a terrifying but very vivid picture of what is unfolding in Kabul right now and across Afghanistan. What can be done at this point?

FK: The international community could still use their political leverage. The United Nations Security Council, the U.S., which has signed a deal with the Taliban. The regional countries could actually stop Taliban from taking over militarily in a state, speed up the peace negotiation and agree on a political power-sharing. Because even if Taliban try to control the whole country, that does not mean peace because it's a military takeover. And I remember when Taliban took over in 1996 militarily, including Kabul, this didn't mean anything. There were people who were fighting against Taliban. So more war, more destruction, more people being killed. I was in Doha a couple of days ago for the negotiation, and I saw that there was no serious move from Taliban on the negotiation, despite the fact that we wanted them to agree on a ceasefire, agree on a political power-sharing. So the situation is honestly very, very disappointing.

NK: As the Taliban keeps advancing, and it appears getting closer to Kabul, what would happen, do you think, if... if the Taliban takes over there?

FK: Very uncertain. Things are so difficult to predict. There's nobody that can do anything. I feel so... I'm sorry, I got emotional. But I feel so powerless in this situation because I was always with people. People respected me. I was supporting them. Now to see them in this horrible situation. And I don't know what will happen to me. And I don't know what will happen to other women's rights activists? To other women who are in Kabul and other places, it's a very horrible situation. I'm sorry.

NK: You have nothing to apologize... because you've certainly been through a lot. One thing I wanted to ask you, you know, the promise of all the international involvement in Afghanistan over the decades was to make it better for the Afghan people. And with all due respect to the countries and the soldiers who spent so much time there, and many perhaps had the best intentions, but many, I think it's safe to say, are wondering what was the point? What... what has been left for the people of Afghanistan now? And I wonder how you feel?

FK: I know that there were a lot of friends and partners, international community that helped us in the past 20 years, worked side-by-side in, you know, ensuring that women get to school, women get to work, Afghanistan institutions are strong, democracy works. We remember, you know, those countries with good intentions, and we do appreciate them. But I must also say that a lot of women of Afghanistan and people of Afghanistan, in general, are very disappointed with what happened in terms of their strategic partnership with the United States because it even become worse for women. Because in the past 20 years, we actually were very vocal in protecting the values of democracy and speaking about our rights and demanding more liberties. We were at the forefront of all of that. Now, to be left alone by the same partners with whom we worked, with whom we actually campaigned to promote their cause, their cause of democracy, which is for the interests of Afghanistan, our common cause to defeat military extremism. Now, to see the same countries actually do not even care anymore. It is... it is very painful. It is very... it's hurting. It's very painful. But on the other hand, if it's not a military situation, if it is not weapon and war and killing and destruction, that makes the first choice. Trust me, we will find our way. We will find our destiny. But the problem is, if you speak up you're killed.

NK: Given the risk of speaking out, as you just said, and given the fact that you yourself were shot, how are you staying safe while still trying to fight?

FK: So I will continue to stay in Afghanistan for as long as I can. But in the meantime, I don't know what will happen tomorrow to me because B52 airplanes and rockets, the super powers, NATO, nobody actually were able to defeat Taliban. Taliban are not afraid of them, but they are afraid of the woman. And so I don't know what will happen to us. I don't know. A lot of women like me or in Afghanistan, my sisters, they share their good times with me. I should actually be with them in these bad times.

NK: Ms. Koofi, thank you so much for your time.

FK: Thank you.

NK: Please stay safe.

FK: Thank you.

AH: Fawzia Koofi is a former Afghan member of parliament. She was in Kabul. And you can find that interview on our website: www.cbc.ca/aih.

[music: ambient]

Guest: Michelle De La Isla

AH: Michelle De La Isla is hoping that by sharing her story, people will be encouraged to roll up their sleeves and get the jab. She's the mayor of Topeka, Kansas. And in January, she got COVID-19. But her life since then hasn't gone back to normal. And on Monday, she'll be getting a pacemaker implanted. We reached Mayor Michelle De La Isla in Topeka, Kansas.

NK: Mayor De La Isla, why do your doctors say you need to have this pacemaker implanted?

MICHELLE DE LA ISLA: Well, upon finding out that I had COVID, my first symptom was I almost passed out in my shower. [chuckling] I actually passed out in my shower.

NK: Woah!

MDLI: Felt like life was leaving me. And I thought it was the initial symptoms of COVID. Everybody talked about how they were very tired. And a family member, which was in my pod of 10 people that I was interacting with, who's an essential employee, had called me Wednesday to let me know they had symptoms. I thought I was fine till that day that everything started, which was a Friday morning. Little did I know that what that symptom was, was my heart rate was dropping significantly at the same time my... my blood pressure was. Friday, after I ended up in the hospital, we discovered that my blood pressure was dropping as well as my heart rate. Stayed in the hospital for a few days. And that was the first time that there was ever talk about a pacemaker. But what we were hoping was that once the... the acute symptoms subsided, that what we were going to find was that everything else was going to come back to normal. And that, to... to my surprise, and very much dislike, it did not. That's where we started talking about making this happen now.

NK: So you are the very definition of a long-haul COVID patient. And this is going to be your second procedure.

MDLI: Correct. Because COVID got rid of my gallbladder as well.

NK: So I pause only because so many people, as you well know, in the United States and elsewhere are still not taking COVID-19 seriously. What do you want to say to them?

MDLI: You know, one of the... I have a lot of friends that work in the health care system, and one of the most impactful images that I was left with is people who are in the hospital about to become intubated, requesting the vaccine at that time. And it's heartbreaking to think that this is happening right now when the vaccine is so readily available. The administration has done everything they can to ensure that we have the quantities needed. Distribution has happened at the state levels. We have hospitals, doctors; we have pharmacies, grocery stores that are providing the vaccine free of cost. And my... my request and just plea to our community that is listening to this is to consider just talking to your care provider. I know that the vaccine has become politicized, especially in the United States, and it shouldn't be a political issue. This is a medical issue. Please consult with your doctor, figure out if you don't have anything that would keep you from having this vaccine. Ask the questions of these doctors that are in the front line. And if you can, please get vaccinated. You just don't know how it's going to hit you. Or, most importantly, how was going to hit somebody that you love.

NK: Just to give listeners a couple of stats about your state, 46 per cent of Kansas residents are fully vaccinated now, but the seven-day average in your state exceeds a thousand cases per day. So how worried are you that despite stories like yours, people still aren't listening?

MDLI: Very much so. Very much so, especially right now with the stats that we're learning from the Delta variant. We have seen young people from the ages of 35, when the median age was in the 60s and 70s, that you were seeing people get into hospital. Now it's dropped. And children are also being impacted. It is so important that if people are able to, that they're... they just get vaccinated. We're in Delta, and it's very virulent. We don't want to see what comes next.

NK: You know, I hear the energy and the passion in your voice. But lest people think it's been an easy road over these last eight months. Take me through what it's like day-by-day?

MDIL: The first three weeks, like I shared, it was horrific. It hit me like a freight train. I barely left my couch. And I'm a runner, a cyclist, a swimmer. And the week... I ended up the week after in the hospital, starting the Friday after, my first onset of symptoms. That was almost a six-day stint. Then after that, I started having pain that I thought was a heart attack. It was actually my gallbladder. Almost five days there. Then from there, I came back home, and I was having a lot of problem moving, a lot of fatigue, a lot of brain fog. Then I got my second vaccine, and after the reaction of the second vaccine, I started feeling much better, to my surprise. And I started trying to just move again and get to my routine and working out. And then, right around the end of March, beginning of April, was when I started having the hard symptoms that were pretty prevalent. At that point in time, March 8th, we decided that we were going to monitor the symptoms because they were still occurring. So I have a loop recorder implanted in me so that my doctor has regular everyday notices if I have any drops in my heart rate. And it's... it's just been really challenging because I just don't know when the fatigue of the heart rate dropping is going to hit me. The mornings are incredibly challenging. I'm very strong-willed, so I always, you know, fight through it. But it's just been hard. And I'm very grateful, very grateful. I... I know that the cost of COVID could be death. And I'm still alive, and my situation has a solution. But it's been taxing even though I have a very positive outlook.

NK: On top of everything else, you have a pretty stressful job. You're the mayor. You have children.

MDIL: I have two jobs! I... I'm number one, a mom. I am also the mayor of the city of Topeka. And also, I am a managing director at the Draper Richards Kaplan Foundation. So, yes, I have three very interesting jobs

NK: And your procedure's on Monday?

MDIL: Monday.

NK: How are you feeling ahead of that?

MDIL: Both nervous, and there's this dichotomy of having incredible nerves about the whole situation and frustration. Because, you know, as a person that works out on a regular basis, makes everything from scratch and makes sure that I eat well, you know, thinking that I'm having a heart problem is very upsetting, even though psychologically, I understand. Cognitively, I know that this is COVID-related. I'm still very frustrated. I'm scared. I mean, it's a pacemaker. I'm going to have leads implanted in my heart. I mean, cardiologists consider this regular procedure now. But for me, it's not. But at the same time, I just want this to be done. I just want to be able to re-engage in my mornings like I typically do and not have to worry about when it's going to hit and how long I'm going to be down for this time.

NK: Well, we are wishing you well and a speedy recovery. Mayor De La Isla, thank you so much for chatting with us today.

MDIL: Thank you. Have a great day.

AH: That was Michelle De La Isla, the mayor of Topeka, Kansas. And that's where we reached her.

[music: fiddle]

Guest: John Greer

AH: He liked to say that he arrived in Halifax with a bang. Nova Scotia's art scene would certainly be completely different and less colourful without him. Garry Neill Kennedy was an artist, an educator, and he put the Nova Scotia College of Art and Design -- "NSCAD" -- on the map. Mr. Kennedy died earlier this week. He was eighty-six. When Mr. Kennedy arrived at NSCAD in 1967, it was a little-known, conservative art school run out of a church hall. When he stepped down as president twenty-three years later, NSCAD had transformed into one of the world's leading centres of conceptual art. John Greer is an artist, a friend and former colleague of Garry Kennedy's. We reached him in Pietrasanta, Italy.

NK: Mr. Greer, I'm so sorry for the loss of your friend.

JOHN GREER: Yeah, he was a giant.

NK: He really upended things when he got to NSCAD. Gary Neill Kennedy did. What did he mean when he said he landed with a bang?

JG: Well, you have to remember that NSCAD was started by Ann Leonowens. Ann Leonowens was a Victorian person -- artist -- who started the art college. And it hadn't changed a great deal from the structure she gave it. And so when... when Garry landed there, he was fresh out of graduate school. He was young. He had hair over his ears, and he, like, Beatle bangs. He was an interesting guy [chuckling] at that point. And he brought a lot of faculty with him that he had met in graduate school. I met him in 1968. I had been to school... I went there before, Gary, when it was a provincial school. And then I went on to... I left there early because it was so boring. And so, I came back to Nova Scotia, and Gary said he was interested in the way I talked. So he... he hired me to replace faculty in painting. And I taught there for over 27 years.

NK: Well, you really saw the before and after. So what kind of shock to the system of the school was it for Mr. Kennedy to arrive?

JG: Well, [chuckling] Gary kind of knew Nova Scotia because he went there during summer vacations. His grandfather had a place there. And so he knew what he was stepping into. You know, Gary was... was so astute politically. He was, in my mind, Gary was a street fighter for art in a highly political situation. So I think he was brilliant at that. He was a strategist with a sense of humour and a sense of adventure. So he was a very interesting character. When I first met him, I walked into his office, and he had modern furniture, and he looked to me like an art dealer from New York. And you could tell that this man was going places.

NK: But not everyone was as thrilled about him as you were. There were protests, right? Some of the students.

JG: There were protests, yeah. [chuckling] And, you know, a lot of hard feelings. A lot of people were hurt. But, you know, if Gary's vision didn't include them, it included a more international idea of what art should be. So, you know, there's bound to be some fallout.

NK: And despite that pushback and that ruffling feathers, in the beginning, no one seems to really argue against the fact that... that under his leadership, NSCAD became an internationally-renowned school of modern art.

JG: Yeah, because Gary could bend with... with the time. I mean, it's... it's obvious when you look at his work that... that it's very timely. There's two types of art. You can have the timely and the timeless. And Gary's work is timely, and some of it's timeless as well. Because he was very interested in the aesthetics of things as well as the political implications. So he was... he was dynamic.

NK: For those who haven't seen Mr Kennedy's work, how would you describe it?

JG: A lot of people don't realize that art is an intellectual activity. And so, Gary's work was all intellectual. A lot of it is like billboard painting almost or juxtaposed colours. But it's all very refined, sophisticated work. And so I think, you know, there's lots of images. People should go on the Internet out Gary's work because it's... he's one of the fundamental Canadian artists of his time, for sure... of our time.

NK: And you hinted at this. He certainly didn't shy away from the political, from provoking.

JG: No, [chuckling] he... I mean, he was a true artist, too. You know, and a true administrator and a real champion for art. You know, the way he built the school, the way he... I mean, the... the camaraderie of the school was fantastic. And it was this kind of rigorous questioning, critical milieu. You know, the school was open 24 hours a day. Students would work all night long, some of them. And, you know, it was a great, fantastic place. And there wasn't a serious art scene in Halifax. So... so you had nothing else to do except develop your skills, critical thinking.

NK: How will you remember your friend?

JG: With... I remember him with a delightful look on his face and a devilish attitude. He was like... there's two types of Irishmen. Some lay in the ditch, face down, singing softly, and others look at the stars, laying on their back in the same ditch. So Gary was looking at the stars in a delightful way. And I remember him mostly as a street fighter in a political arena for art. I mean, he really championed students and championed art. I think he put a lot of people on the right path.

NK: Mr. Greer, I'm sorry again for the loss of your friend, but thank you for taking time out of your day to tell us more about him.

JG: It was such a pleasure working with him for so long. I loved the man.

NK: Thank you.

JG: OK, bye-bye.

AH: John Greer is an artist and a friend of Garry Neill Kennedy. Mr. Kennedy died on Sunday at the age of 86.

[music: world music]

AH: As a former chef and current glutton, I know cravings. They're serious business. Ice cream cake isn't exactly my bread and butter -- bread and butter is actually my bread and butter. But I can understand wanting a slice so badly you're in danger of losing your cool. What I can't imagine is that I'd have so little chill that I'd illegally land my helicopter in the middle of a small town just so I could pop into the local D-Q. But that's precisely what a 34-year-old pilot was caught doing last month. That stunt has landed him on thin ice. He happened to have brought his chopper down directly in front of Tisdale, Saskatchewan mayor Al Jellicoe -- who was astonished to see an emerging passenger beeline for the soft serve supplier. As Mayor Jellicoe put it quote, "I thought that's probably not the right thing to do." Unquote. And according to the RCMP, he's not wrong. Investigators are charging the pilot with dangerous operation of an aircraft -- after determining that the stop was quote, "not an emergency." And while that feels like a bit of a judgment call, we wouldn't recommend he disorbet the court. He may just have been seeking dessert. But we're not sure he'll like his just desserts.

[music: bright instrumental]

Guest: Adrian Treves

AH: Wisconsin is ready for its fall wolf hunt -- one that conservationists warn is putting the animals at risk. The state has announced a kill quota of 300 wolves when hunting season begins in November. That's more than double the number than government scientists have been recommending -- 130. Our guest recommends hunting just one. It's the latest flashpoint over the management of the grey wolf, which lost its endangered status under the Trump administration. And it doesn't help that Wisconsin already had a hunt earlier this year. Adrian Treves runs the carnivore coexistence lab at the University of Wisconsin in Madison. That's where we reached him.

NK: Professor Treves, why is this Wolf Hunt happening?

ADRIAN TREVES: The state of Wisconsin has a legislative mandate to hold a wolf hunt every year when they're not federally protected under the Endangered Species Act.

NK: And what did you think when you heard the number, the kill quota of 300 wolves?

AT: Well, in my expert opinion, it's much too high to be safe. We have so little information on the success of wolf reproduction after that unprecedented wolf hunt in February that overshot the quota by 82 per cent and may have impaired reproductive capacity of our wolf packs across the whole state. Without such information, it's very unusual and highly risky. I'd say even reckless to hold a second wolf hunt this year.

NK: So why are they doing it?

AT: Well, I believe a gang of four on the Natural Resource Board forgot their public trust responsibilities, which are to hold wildlife as a trust for future generations here in the state and prioritizing that preservation over current uses.

NK: What's in it for them to prioritize that over the public trust, as you say?

AT: I don't know. I'd be speculating. I think it's ideology.

NK: What is your... your worst fear, I guess, when the fall hunt begins on November 6th?

AT: Well, I'm fearful that they're going to jeopardize the stability and security of our population. So it will crash. And that rampant illegal activities such as cryptic poaching -- the shoot, shovel, and shut up phenomenon -- will continue.

NK: Tell me more about that phrase that you just said.

AT: Yeah, sorry. Illegal killing of wolves is the major cause of mortality for wolves across the United States. Our research has shown. And that spikes when the government's relaxed protections for wolves, as they've done now. And the kind of illegal killing we're talking about here is called cryptic poaching, where the perpetrators conceal evidence, and there's no reporting of the environmental crime that's just occurred. So I'm concerned we're entering... re-entering a period of lawlessness and destruction of our native predator populations.

NK: People are killing lots and lots of wolves. So why do you think the people who are doing that are doing that?

AT: Well, there's a lot of misconceptions out there. That our deer populations are suffering from wolves. That hunting helps protect domestic animals like livestock. The scientific evidence doesn't support either of those views. And there's ideas out there that wolves have no value, whereas recent research suggests actually wolves help reduce deer-vehicle collisions that cost human lives, loss of property and the lives of deer, which our hunters value highly. There's also evidence that wolves and other predators help to keep down diseases like Lyme disease, NCWD, chronic wasting disease. So the net benefits of wolves on the landscape seem to scientists to be net positives. But there's still the anecdotal opinions of some powerful individuals that are leading to widespread dislike of wolves.

NK: How do you combat all of that misconception and misinformation that you just mentioned? You know, when clearly there's so many people who want to collect these animals as trophies, what can you do?

AT: Well, yeah. I mean, for 20 years, I've been doing the only thing I can do, which is our science and trying to communicate it clearly to the public in public meetings, in written form, with the broadcast media such as yourself, just trying to get the word out. And majorities do seem to be listening, but a tiny minority seems to have seized power in this part of our state policy.

NK: What was it like over the last four years, specifically under the Trump administration, to see these kinds of policies?

AT: It's been difficult. We faced challenges at the federal level and actually in both administrations. And the current presidential administration is deliberating on whether to restore federal protections for grey wolves, a move that I've publicly approved, endorsed and recommended to the Biden administration. Because federal protections are one way that we can recognize the Endangered Species Act, which is one of the most popular and bipartisan environmental laws that's ever been passed in the USA.

NK: How worried are you about the future of this animal?

AT: Well, globally, it's not endangered like others are, like, say, the red wolf, which is critically endangered. But in our state, the grey wolves are in dire... in... in dire straits. And that's a disservice to all the youth and unborn future generations in our state. We're destroying nature just at a time when humanity's in the middle of a mass-extinction crisis caused by people. We should be doing exactly the opposite and supporting our apex predator populations.

NK: You run a carnivore coexistence lab in Madison at the University of Wisconsin, as I understand it. So what would coexistence with these wolves look like to you? What should it look like?

AT: So what we try to understand and communicate to the public is how coexistence with large carnivores like grey wolves can be achieved through non-lethal methods of protecting our domestic animals and a mutual respect for each other. So that means minimal use of lethal management, especially when the non-lethal methods have been proven far more effective. Coexistence also implies an attitude in which we don't put people first all the time. We actually look at what the needs and uses are for people. So, for example, a recreational hunt is a trivial human activity that should never be prioritized over the safety of individual wolves and their families and their wolf packs. So that sort of coexistence treats humans and non-human more equitably and fairly.

NK: Professor Treves, thank you so much for your time.

AT: Thank you very much for covering the topic.

NK: Take care.

AT: Okay, take care. Bye.

AH: Adrian Treves is a professor at the University of Wisconsin in Madison.

[music: Spanish guitar]

AH: As you're enjoying the summer days, winter is probably the furthest thing from your mind right now. But for some, like Bernice Later, thinking about winter is unavoidable. Ms. Later's business relies on snow. She's the general manager of Holiday Mountain ski resort in La Riviere, Manitoba. And the resort has announced that it would not be opening this winter season. It said unprecedented drought conditions across southern Manitoba had significantly impacted its source of snowmaking -- I.E., water. Ms. Later spoke about the decision with the CBC.

[sc]

BERNICE LATER: Normally, the resort starts selling season passes in the middle of August. And as we go through our operations plan and continue to watch the river levels drop, it doesn't seem responsible to sell memberships for a service you can't guarantee. We're looking out at the river where we have a permit from Manitoba water stewardship to divert 17 million gallons of water every year. And it's so dry that we watched a deer walk across it last night. It's... it's just an unprecedented condition. And as it stands right now, neither of our pump houses are operational. It would take such an enormous amount of water to refill them to a point that... that our water source and our snowmaking was even usable. The best thing we could do is just be honest with our customers and our staff and plan for next year.

SHANNAH-LEE VIDAL: That must have been a really hard decision to make. How is everyone feeling about that?

BL: Well, it's heartbreaking. I mean, we've been around for more than six decades. Every winter, we employ 65 people. It's going to have an enormous consequence in the local economy. We're all feeling it, but we have to be realistic in our expectations. And like so many other industries, we live and die by the weather forecast. And Mother Nature is in charge, and it's just not happening. There's just no way... there's no amount of rainfall that could refill the basin to a point where it would be responsible to even take the water. You know, we have to consider the environmental impact as well. If we were to take that kind of water out of what little there is in the basin, you know, what would that do to the fish and the turtles and all the animals that are living in the water? You know, the best thing we can do is just try and be responsible corporate citizens and hope for next season.

SLV: And how is this decision to suspend operations, how will it affect Holiday Mountain financially?

BL: Well, I mean, we've had a terrible couple of years with COVID. You know, we've really struggled. And this is another huge blow to the resort itself. You know, normally, 50 per cent of our customer base is school groups. And we had none last year. So we had to adapt our entire business model to try and survive through last year's restrictions and lockdowns. And we've sort of done everything we can to try and keep operating. But, you know, you can't fight the weather. This is the one... the one battle we can't win. So, unfortunately, we're at that point.

[/sc]

AH: That was Bernice Later, the general manager of Holiday Mountain Resort in Manitoba, speaking with the CBC's Shannah-Lee Vidal this week on "Radio Noon."

[music: bright instrumental]

AH: It's August, so hopefully you're eating perfectly ripe peaches and taking lazy afternoon naps. Or maybe you're so happy that we still have several weeks left of summer that you've super-glued your hand together and pumped your first in celebration for more than seventeen hours. That might not sound very appealing. But Ray Slater did it, and he was pumped about the results. In 2012, he smashed the record for longest fist-pumping session in the world. So to inject some energy into your day, here is Mr. Slater speaking to Carol in May of 2012.

[sc]

CO: Ray, what's your secret for prolonged fist pumping?

RAY SLATER: Oh, my goodness gracious: be confident in yourself, have a great body, and you, too, can become a fist pumping world champion.

CO: Do you think that's what you've done to have broken the record?

RS: The record has been not only broken, I shattered it! James Peterson of Ohio literally had the record for two days. My boss, Bobby Bones, says, "Hey, dude, do you think you can break it? Let's do it." Well, the news then spread all over America by Monday. So we went into emergency panic mode. And he said, "Dude, I know you haven't slept because you've been doing your radio shows, but you need to do this tonight." So not only did I break his record, I went 17 hours fist pumping -- I went 35 hours without sleeping!

CO: What did you have to do in order to keep pumping your fist in the air for more than 17 hours?

RS: Well, I'm a body builder by trade. Every day I do radio. And after my show, boom, I'm in the gym. I'm doing shoulders. I'm doing laps. So being sore and moving your muscles for extended periods of time is something I'm used to. But this was just whacked out and it was all in my mind. And you could almost say it was in my heart too. But I knew I could do it.

CO: Come on. There's a few things you had to do in order to make it. You couldn't hold your fist that long. What did you do to make that happen?

RS: Right. What I did is followed suit with him. He had put in an article -- I superglued my hand. Great idea. We're actually going to use that idea and then go ahead and just beat your record. But I superglued my fingers all together. And within five minutes of pumping my fist, they were completely numb.

CO: So why did you have to go your fingers together?

RS: Just because I figured it would be natural for your hand to want to open up after extended periods of time. So we went with it and it was the smartest decision ever. Even though my hand literally felt like a rock and not even something that was attached to my body anymore, it was the smartest decision because then all I had to do was throw my hand in the air and not necessarily concentrate on keeping it closed fist

CO: [Chuckles] Which hand were you doing this with your left to your right?

RS: I decided to go with my right hand. That's my strongest hand. And I knew with my left hand that eventually it was going to get worn out. Go with what hand has been your strongest your entire life and just totally go with your guns. Bam! We played sports with that hand. You write love letters with that hand. Now you need to fist pump for 17 hours with that hand.

CO: Why did you have to fist pump for 17 hours? Why did you do this?

RS: It was presented to me as a challenge. "Hey, this will be fun. You can do it." But within the first hour, it got real serious. And it was "If I don't do this, I'm letting news crews down." They had been notified on the Internet throughout the wee hours of the morning. I had hundreds of people Justin.tv talking about me, commenting, cheer me along, asking me to divulge secrets. And then as I broke the record, the moment that I did, I had over three thousand people on Justin.tv -- they are celebrating with me, chatting. Maybe they're a little weird for being on an Internet program, commenting on a random guy. But I told them, "I love you guys. Thank you for the support."

CO: Well, what do you think that you have achieved here?

RS: Well, I will be making it in the Guinness Book of World Records. I thought, oh, this is just something fun, pretty stupid, fist pumping. But I have a sit down interview with the most respected TV personality in the city tomorrow. And now in my local city, I am literally a household name, and I can only imagine that that's going to then go statewide and then go all over the country.

CO: Well, you are talking to another country right now.

RS: Exactly. They tell me, hey, you just landed an interview with Canada and that immediately tells me this is it. If New York doesn't pick up on this, and I'm not on one of those network television shows doing a morning interview, then I'm really going to be shocked.

CO: Do you have some music that you are pumping to?

RS: We would question hour people were really intrigued by me. I do have an eight pack and I did have my shirt off, so I was answering questions [CO Laughs].

CO: You have an eight pack.

RS: Absolutely. And then they would also request songs. And so I had interns there. And let me tell you, the city that I'm in these interns in the radio industry are smoking hot. So I had them for motivation. And then, yeah, we would play music and it was a dance party and it was just something that was so so fun. But I had to keep focused on the fist pumping.

CO: So what was the tune that helped you pump the best?

RS: I would say Top 40. If you go on Billboard.com, any of those Top 40 songs we listened to, whether it was Justin Bieber -- I don't know if you guys have heard of him [Laughter] we were listening to all the hits right now that are getting played in the clubs.

CO: Have your fingers unglued yet?

RS: Yup. The minute that I broke the record, all those viewers online, I wanted them to be as much a part of the experience as possible. So I showed them I said. You guys thought I was lying, that I didn't superglue them. Look! And I tried to open my hand and my hand was just crippled. And they could see the super glue on my hand. And when I put my arm down for the first time after 17 hours, I literally had no control over my arm. And as you can see in the video, all you need to do is type in fist pumping Bobby Bones Show, my arm just starts to go crippled. It was the most craziest sensation I've ever had when I put my hand down for the first time in almost a day.

CO: Will you ever write love letters again?

RS: Oh, my gosh. You have no idea how many girls I have been getting contacted by because of this. I'm probably going to be writing a lot of love letters and there's going to be more loves in my life.

CO: You know, Ray, there are people listening to this who have no idea what we're talking about.

RS: Well, they're gonna. Because I was trending in the world when I broke the record. So if they don't know what is going on, then they don't wake up in the morning before 10:00 a.m. and they don't turn on a TV and they haven't paid their cable bill.

CO: Okay. [Laughs] We'll be watching for you Ray.

RS: Thank you very much. You guys are awesome. I love being in Canada. Don't you know?

CO: Okay. [Laughs] Okay. Thank you I guess.

RS: I love you all.

CO: [Laughs] Okay. Bye.

RS: Bye.

[/sc]

AH: From 2012, that was Ray Slater speaking with Carol about fist pumping for seventeen hours and fifteen minutes without stopping.